The Biggest Flops In MTB Tech | Why Did These Products Fail?

[@Mtb_Nerd]

Build a bike with all the biggest flops! 😂

[@yodapig]

... and get Blake to ride it downhill!

[@gmbn]

The Flop-a-tron 3000 would be one hell of a thing to behold

[@davetbassbos]

Haha, great idea!

[@inbermswetrust]

$1000 and a few days on ebay would do the trick!

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

@@Mtb_Nerd What frame would you chose? I’d go for that one that used natural chromoly chain-stay flex with an elastomer interrupting the seat-stays where they’d ordinarily meet the seatpost (can’t remember the make of the frame). I’d stick an early Manitou spring and elastomer fork! My god that fork was hyped, mid-90s. It was chuffing useless. I will not have elastomers in the house.

[@lacucaracha111111]

I would call lefies "not worth it" instead of a flop: -It works -It genuinely makes the bike lighter while not negatively affecting anything else BUT: -Special hubs -Only fitting some bikes -Lower volume = more cost only make with worth it for races and competitions

[@irfuel]

They are not lighter. Lefty Ocho is 1450g. That's more than a Rockshox SID SL

[@lacucaracha111111]

@@irfuel The lightest sid sl is 1480g

[@andrewcockburn7484]

​@@irfuelthe lefty is stiffer than any other xc fork though. More comparable with a fox 34. Still wouldn't have one though. Just too much of a pain to live with.

[@frostsmoke]

@@lacucaracha111111 The lightest SID SL is (according to RockShox) 1352g.

[@andreaTRY2FLY]

Another BUT: -Looks awful

[@karlj711]

How can the lefty be a flop? Its been around for years.......

[@Denamearc]

Not a flop. Great suspension. Used to ride German:A KILO. But switched to Lefty. Perfect for XC...

[@davesytid]

Have a Lefty Super Max Carbon 130mm that is super smooth and responsive, also allowing at least a 3.0" tire. I have a 2.8 29r on there now. The Lefty helps to balance the bike left-to-right also, since the weight of the derailleur/chain/gearing on the right is off-set. If the disc brake assembly (disc and caliper) could be designed/engineered to remain on the lower stanchion and have a proper quick-release, it might yet catch on, eventually, since the assembly/disassembly is time consuming.

[@carsonchambers5617]

@@davesytid I thought it does have a quick release brake caliper? At least the one I watched on Berm Peak had it, I guess the newer versions must have it. That was one of the points he made about the non QR versions, takes forever to remove the wheel since you have to unbolt the caliper.

[@myrants5836]

Sometimes it takes time for a flop to be a flop. The fact is lefty forks were a flop from day one. It's just some people refuse to admit the obvious flop and it takes time to flop a flop.

[@gmbn]

We've got to include something controversial in the mix! 😅

[@GeezersWithToys-ub8lu]

No, the lefty absolutely isn't a flop. It's tighter and lighter than anything. The biggest problem with the Lefty is Cannondale. It's copyrighted and everything about it is propetorial. Meaning, you can't just go buy yourself a Lefty at any shop like you can a Fox or a RockShock. And, getting it serviced is.... well, you better know somebody with all the special tools to do it with.. If it wasn't for the difficulty servicing them I'd want to run a Lefty on everything, with the difficulty..... yeah, there's a reason I'm not riding my old Rush as much as I love it. But no way is it a flop, they still make them for a reason, because riding them is awesome.

[@VSDeluxe]

True. Leftys are cool and if they were not Cannondale exclusive we would see them in other bikes also. And don't forget that Cannondale made these crazy special sised measurements you sometimes need for their frame and stems.

[@wickrider]

Looking at the first 5 places in both women and men result from the 2024 work championship will confirm that the Lefty is far from being a failure! It's one of the most successful XC fork ever!

[@thecount1001]

propetorial eh? i like it....

[@Tonyrat1964]

Yes, but the Lefty essentially came about as a consequence of a too DH fork which flopped because it was too heavy. It was found that either side was so stiff that it was found that one leg could be used on its own and the Lefty was born. No Righty because of the brakes! 😊

[@FoothillsBrassBandSC]

My first bike had roller cam brakes mounted underneath the chainstays. They were great if you wanted to spend your whole ride digging mud out with a stick.

[@Hydun]

Actually Mavic had already launched an electronic groupset by the time the Airlines came out called the Mektronic

[@couchx8809]

it's insane to me how dismissive the bald one is about way more practical items on this list, then the Airlines come up and he's like "yes I'd love to be able to run out of proprietary shifting gas from a massive metal cannister on my bike"

[@tomwagemans1872]

I had the xtr dual control and loved them. It took a while to get used to them but then it was a good system, no problems whatsoever.

[@peglor]

Absolutely phenomenal when combined with a rapid rise rear derailleur. I ran a set of XTRs for thousands of miles back in the day. They were the first generation to get all the features modern Shimano shifters have, namely instant release and double release upshifts (Which were downshifts on a rapid rise derailleur - so that feature may well have dual control and rapid rise to thank for appearing in Shimano shifters at all - for anyone used to double upshifts SRAM drivetrains kind of suck). Blame the absolute hacks in the bike 'journalism' business for killing them off - it seems not one of them was able to hold onto their bars properly without mashing sideways on the brake levers 😞.

[@deputydd4364]

I still have my dual control Scott from 2003. I love it!

[@Skooteh]

there are some inherent problems with combining shifter/brake lever. The main one in mountain biking IMO is that a crash will mess both up and be a costlier expense than if they were 2 separate parts. Couple that with the bad part support (from not being popular) and it would be pretty dicey to recommend, even at its peak.

[@Dagobertrules1]

I still have LX duals (v-brakes) on one bike, they work great. Must say they are better for a commuter bike then a MTB.

[@peglor]

@@Skooteh I crashed a number of times on dual controls and because the lever was able to move sideways to get out of the way of the impact it probably saved them so I could carry on with no damage beyond few scratches. I've bent standard Shimano brake levers in similar crashes previously.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

What!!! You’re letting the *elastomer* (in shocks or forks) through! Only slightly worked in extremely hot weather. Rigid chromoly far superior. Great to see Martyn again. The hammerschmidt on the Transition looked a sweet package. Cannondale flop: 20" rear wheel, 26" front. Magura hydraulic rim brake. I had one. Mixed feelings. GT thermoplastic frame with a bladder inside 5th Element twin-valve, 2-speed shock!! When solving the single pivot design became an issue not about pivot placement but twin-speed dampers. Tbf Rockshox guru Tim Flook, top bloke, was the UK concessionaire for the 5th Element. I had one on a Bullit. Tim was brilliant given all the problems I had. Several trips to his barn workshop in the West Country.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

At a push: Hope mechanical disc brake. Floating rear discs (sort the frame out FGS)

[@brianrainey2739]

Magura rim brakes were/are great. Have them on a hardtail. I believe they were very popular with the trials crowd for their power.

[@dennisdose5697]

​@brianrainey2739 I believe immediate response is part of the trials preference. There is a tiny bit of give between hub and rim due to spoke flex, the rim brake allows better precision.

[@dennisdose5697]

My wife and I have a 30 year old Cannondale tandem with Magura hydraulics. Before discs, this was the way to go on a tandem. Used to live in the Mississippi River valley, downhill speeds well over 50 mph were normal (over 100kph once!). Very comforting to have those powerful stoppers.

[@ousqa]

Magura rim brakes are still used by trials riders

[@Andy_ATB]

Lefty is hardly a flop; still going and won the last World Cup in Les Gets (Alan Hatherly), and a bronze medal in the Olympics.

[@devincook3278]

The lefty Ocho is my favorite XC fork. It eats roots and sharp edges much better than my 2024 SID ultimate and my 2023 Fox 34 factory Stepcast

[@johnssmith4005]

I had no idea it was that good

[@patrickrgrier3195]

Hammerschmidt was expensive, had a dedicated bottom bracket, a couple parts were fragile, but have instant, no pedaling downshift for moments when surprises arose, I liked it.

[@PsyKeks]

@@patrickrgrier3195 Are you aware of Schlumpf and Efneo? Both do similar things today.

[@peglor]

The combination of rapid rise derailleur and dual control was absolutely amazing. It does seem that what killed dual control is that there's a large cohort of people who hang sideways on the brake levers for no reason while riding. As someone who doesn't do this, so they worked beautifully for me. I put thousands of miles on a bike with this setup, and it shifts a lot better than current 12 speed. The pinnacle of drivetrains was Shimano 3x10 with a clutch derailleur though. Every new system I try feels significantly worse than that, mostly because the downshift force is way higher for some reason. The only system that partly beats it is the front derailleur shifting on Shimano 2x12 drivetrains, which is the best front shifting I've ever experienced (And I've put thousands of miles on this setup too) but almost nobody even knows that exists.

[@jaymueller2418]

@@peglor 2 x 12 sounds awesome.

[@fakeaccount7180]

Linkage forks do not deserve to be on this list. I have always liked linkage suspension forks. 1- I had an AMP Linkage fork on a light weight cross country bike i built up in the 1990s. It was great for what I was using it for. Lightest suspension fork available at the time. Was lighter even than a rigid cromolly fork. I had built the bike with light cross country in mind. 2- I also took a Girwyn Linkage Fork off a Pro Flex, and put it on a hard tail MTB that I built up for tougher trails. This would have been back in the late 1990s I think. The fork was heavy, but had a really good feel compared to telescoping forks available at the time. I had built this bike up as a more capable cross country hardtail MTB.

[@GrahamFootBicycleLover]

Agreed AMP forks were amazing, as were Lawill Leaders

[@twiora]

I was shocked when I first tried an AMP fork. Compared to how floppy other forks were at the time, the AMP fork tracked so nicely. I rode one for years and then I got a modern telescoping fork and I realized the telescoping forks had 10 years of development and the AMP didn’t. My AMP hangs on my wall now and my riders all have telescoping forks.

[@theosmit6366]

Yeah. The biggest issue with AMP forks is that they should have spent about ten grams extra on better bushings, and *somehow* gotten a good shock absorber in there. The little in-house AMP pull shock had to be rebuilt after pretty much every hard ride. Still have a B4/F3 and a B4/F4 hanging on the wall for the day I decide to build a retro climber.

[@ruquik]

Did yall know that AMP research power steps are the same company..

[@BordercityMTBer]

Shimano reverse shifting!! Why?? You got used to the way it worked then couldn’t ride a conventional shifter for weeks afterwards 👎🏻

[@badgers1975]

Rapid rise, you either loved it or hated it I loved it still run it on a 2003 giant NRS, as I spend more time going up than down on the Southdowns,smoother upshifts made swnse

[@jasonkrupp2326]

@@badgers1975 Yeah, I had the rapidrise, tried it for about a year, and ditched it. Still have the derailleur somewhere in my parts bins. Because I was mostly a roadie, I could never get used to it, so I'd constantly be shifting into a harder gear when I needed the easier one.

[@KenCoxDotNet]

Rapid Demise is all I ever heard it called, and I worked in a shop at the time, surrounded by racers and reps.

[@gurkpojken]

The reason they builded it was two things. 1: when you drove and the wire went off, you shouldnt get stuck in heaviest gear.. The other reason was the shifters, you could always hold two fingers on the brake and still shift.. but.. who at shimano had ever thought of peoples musclememory?

[@KurtKloetentreter]

For real, rapid rise is AMAZING imo. My current bike is some old Winora Trekking Bike with a nexave derailleur, and shifting is so incredibly intuitive. It just makes sense and I have no idea why the whole industry didn't just adopt it for good because pushing hard to get into harder gears just makes sense to me. I obviously look forward to at some point upgrading my drivetrain, but I do not look forward having to switch to regular derailleurs, riding my wife's bike always throws me off for that reason.

[@patthewoodboy]

the Slingshot frame

[@GarthFlint-nc2vj]

Oh come on now. Those were great. I sold them. For one season. The front and rear wheels were always slightly out of alignment. The amount of preload you could get was incredible. It was a rolling trampoline. So much fun. On a rough downhill your life would flash before your eyes several times. A constant adventure in riding.

[@patthewoodboy]

@@GarthFlint-nc2vj it was a flop , thats the subject of this.

[@neilmeansneil]

I loved my Flexstem went I spent £135 on it in 1992, it made riding much more comfortable on the dirt trails, bridlepaths and tracks we were riding on then. Compared with the available suspension forks available at the time, it was the best option. I've still got it fitted to my Saracen I bought in 1990 lurking in the back of the shed!

[@thebestmaidens]

Can someone please explain how the bike at 1:38 even works? The frame is fully rigid (apart from the fork) and there is no pivot. How doe the rear suspension even move?

[@blurglide]

I rode a linkage fork on a BMW motorcycle and it was amazing. Much less brake dive.

[@MrCult45]

​@@blurglide I ride a mtn bike based on that BMW suspension. Check out structure cycle works. It's incredible

[@erwindegroot8760]

The linkage fork desig is more than a 120 years old. Most motorcycles from the 40's and earlier had this fork design. You also found it on early mopeds and through the history of bicycles.

[@dwaynebrietzke]

My first suspension bike was a 1998 Rocky Mtn Pipeline. URT but you could select between 4, 5 or 6 inches of rear travel just using a QR skewer on the rear shock.

[@Rambleon444]

How about the Softride, a bike designed for comfort in triathlons. And then they beefed up the frame and created a mountain bike (catapult) around the concept.

[@SamMilsomJediMaster]

The Lefty?!? Seriously?!? Best forks I’ve ever ridden, bombproof, stiff as, plush…. I could go on. Don’t understand why you’d even consider it a flop?

[@tonkshred]

The biggest flop in mountain biking was the usa cycling handling of BikeTrials. Basically didn’t think it made money, no one cared about it and 25 years later at any bike trail you see completely inept riders on $5,000 bikes. even expert level mtb riders can’t control their bicycle in heavy technical areas. Very few people learn the basics of bicycle control- what you really need to go through the woods. A 2 foot log down in the trail is a practice spot not something you report to your facebook trail clearing mtb group. All tech has gone to mute the trail and remove all rider uncomfortability but make it roll thru 5” babyheads like pavement. Spend a week on an rigid 80s canti braked beast w 26x2.0 tires and get reminded sometimes

[@mitrovarr]

Trials skills will never be mainstream in mountain biking. To get them you have to be willing to fall many, many times in the learning process. This is too likely to inflict injuries for most people to be willing to do it - particularly people who learn to mountain bike as adults.

[@carsonchambers5617]

Berm Peak has a cool video about the headshock’s history. It basically paved the way for the lefty fork. It rode better than the forks of that era, and eventually got up to 100mm of travel (I think, not sure if there were any higher travel fork versions). Only downside was its needle bearings design. Besides the fact it was a PITA to service apparently, the needles could get out of alignment from rapid constant movement. Which required you to disassemble the fork, and realign the bearings correctly. Would have been a great fork if they found a way to limit the travel of the bearings so that they couldn’t get out of alignment. Anyways its successor, the lefty, is also another engineering marvel for bikes. IIRC the shock is basically flipped upside down compared to a normal shock. The downsides like others have said, the lack of specialized hubs that specifically fit it. Plus the weight of it is pretty hefty due to the big piece of metal that connects the shock, and hub together. It needs to be a giant solid connection between the two in order to hold the rider’s weight. Dunno if it has the same problem of the needle bearings getting out of alignment as it’s predecessor, and if it’s a pita to service. I agree about those combined brake, and shifters, aka the brifters. Having to pull the handle a certain way to brake in an emergency (that you could pull incorrectly, and end up shifting instead of stopping), seems like a bad idea.

[@samblenkharn8099]

Can't believe flexstems are having a revival on gravel bikes wtf

[@eddierivera7803]

Shimano Rapid rise derailleur. Had an XTR and loved it but some peoples brain couldn’t deal with having to think. Knuckleheads! My AXS shifters are all setup in reverse and I love it,but I can chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.

[@drumbrakes]

URT was one way of solving a number of issues for early full suss bikes: One of the biggies was mounting cantilever Rim brakes They need to be held a fixed distance and angle relative to the rear hub, be strongly braced against each other and have a path for the brake cable to pull from. Designers also had to reduce twist at the rear hub relative to rim brakes when 135x10 with a QR was the only hub standard available, so keeping the chain stays and seat stays all in one piece did the job better then many designs. URT has been surpassed by modern designs but it wasn't a flop at the time, and that's how they should be judged now. Disc brakes and through axles really opened up the options for suspension designers. If you want proper flops: Greentyres (solid foam tyres that needed a 12" trye lever just to get them on.) Biopace! Helical (self energising!) cantilever brakes (used the forward motion of the rim to push them on harder, but terrible modulation, and disappeared when V-brakes came along) Bullhorn handlebars.

[@sageoz9886]

Funny thing with biopace rings is that if you clocked the rings opposite of their intended design they were basically oval rings of today and worked way better😂

[@deabreu.tattoo]

Wait, bullhorn handlebars are awesome! My fav type for fixed and urban bikes.

[@drumbrakes]

@@deabreu.tattoo So not for actual MTBs then? I loved my bullhorn bar when I first got it. Looked good on paper. Bar + bar ends all in one piece at about the same weight and much cheaper, and a huge variety of hand positions available. it took me a year to realise it was spoiling my rides. Maybe they are better now, but 90s bullhorn bars had a really narrow straight section (even by 90s standards) and a very gradual curve on the horns as stems, brakes and shifters all had to be slid on from the end, because split clamps weren't a thing. A straight bar and bar ends gave a much wider section of usable bar when you needed access to shifters and brakes.

[@krisjones74]

URT suspension bikes are lacking compared to modern suspension bikes, but don't forget how most suspension designs prior to URT were much worse - high pivot points and rudimentary shock technology meant the bikes would 'inchworm' when pedalling, and provided minimal benefit. Trek's URT 'Y' bikes were such a vast improvement over their terrible 9000 series single pivots, the ones with a pivot 1/2 way up the seat tube and a stack of rubber donuts as a shock, it really can't be overstated.

[@sageoz9886]

The Trek 9000 was the first sus bike I ever tried at our shop and we all completely hated it. The Y frames were awesome comparatively and seemed a great compromise between hardtail and sus bitd

[@riggedupgaming]

I agree with martin, the lefty is a HIT!

[@dwiesch]

More importantly, it's certainly not a flop. They never stopped making them and people buy and like them.

[@edrcozonoking]

It a great design but it is a niche product. So it's mostly a flop

[@dhbmario]

It's a hit with a s in front

[@garrywhelan9211]

The technical term for Shimano Dual Control was "Flippy Flappy"! I had them on my Scott Genius and they were only mildly bad.

[@zethjugos1250]

The lefty is not a flop...its still around, still a beautiful example of overengineering and still one of the smoothest forks around

[@antdod1]

I've still got a bushing in the garage of one of my flex stems I had in the 90s

[@Hippie-lee]

my uncle is a lefty, whilst serving in the military, a tank shot his right leg off. hes called dale couldnt make this shit up

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

Nicknamed Cannon!!

[@Hippie-lee]

@@RalphBrooker-gn9iv a cannon shot Dale, leaving him as a lefty. I covered all bases lol

[@jakebrakebill]

had a lefty with electronic lock out that never worked and couldn't get fixed, sold the bike because of that and would never want another. customer service ???

[@masaharumorimoto4761]

Linkage suspension always fascinated me!

[@erwindegroot8760]

The linkage system excisten already 120 years ago.

[@Unamatrix01]

The Cannondale Lefty is not a flop.The Lefty was designed for a specific purpose that it has reached and is continuously being refined.The Lefty is proprietary to Cannondale and thus suits their frame geometry.

[@andrzejbaran3064]

How about kona magic link? It was a full suspension frame with 2 dampers. The magic link system changes the travel of the frame and it allows you to have more travel while you are descending.

[@johnmarsland3442]

Cannondale headshock…. GT lobo style pull shock… Spin Carbon wheels… Can you tell I grew up riding in the 90’s

[@lcc8394]

grip shift from the 90 - that just didn't work - headshock wasn't that bad if you used it for xc but ppl rode it harder than it was intended for, but some of the bikes it came on are still going today which kinda says something

[@lysanatt]

@@lcc8394 Still riding Cannondale Caffeine with headshox; works perfect and it's... 17 year old this year.

[@fakeaccount7180]

@@lcc8394 Agreed. Grip Shift was really bad, and the Shifters wore out so fast.

[@MarcusOliver2006]

Just beautiful times

[@carsonchambers5617]

Why are the headshock’s on your list? They provided more dampening, and better ride quality than the front forks of that era. Unless it’s because of its complexity, and PITA to service apparently.😂 Mechanics from that era have said in comments featuring it that it was a pain to service. There was a chance the needle bearings could go out of alignment.

[@Ma660t5andw1ch]

You know what would have been cool? If you talked to the designers about the problems they were trying to solve before writing off their inventions. Some of these things, when put in context, addressed issues present in mtb at the time.

[@wantahertzdonut]

You can still get a modern URT frame from Castellano Designs (he invented the URT). He'll even build you a modern BowTi if you have the money. I'm not sure you can call URT a flop when it was adopted by so many companies, it was a product for the riding of the era. They work great as singlespeeds too. The Flexstem and URT were responses to the terrible flexy suspension available at the time, and i don't know if you can call YRT a flop when many manufacturers were adopting it in one form or another. I just sold my bike with so many bad ideas of the 90s and it was a URT. SUPER FUN riding that thing with the Girvin fork and Spin mag wheels.

[@tamasvigh117]

I'm glad because I don't see the Grip shift on the list.

[@spdnik2568]

I just came to say the opposite! 😂

[@manitolas]

in my cheap bike ,works ok😀🤘

[@markevans5596]

Just had a new lease of life with the Pinion gearbox

[@Tre7we88]

Here for the Lefty! Flop… no way! multiple World Cup and Olympic medal winning forks. As for other notable flops. Press fit BBs, Specialized Brain suspension, Magura’s original disc brakes… leaky AF!, magnesium frames, Shimano shark fins, u-brakes, oval chain rings… the list goes on!

[@GarthFlint-nc2vj]

I still have Grip shift on one of my bikes. I always liked it and still do. It can go through a greater range of gears so much faster than buttons. It is mechanically simpler. Hands are always on the shifter instead of having a thumb trying to push a button. The draw back was the wrist getting out of position on a shift. It had pros and cons but it was not a flop in my book.

[@peglor]

Leaving out biopace chainrings and 1 cm pitch bike chains are two genuine tech flops. Biopace got MTBing fundamentally wrong as they engineered the rings to increase in diameter as the crank went to top/bottom dead centre, which actually works brilliantly while spinning to get momentum from your legs to the drivetrain before your legs stop moving down at bottom dead centre anyway, but it feels absolutely awful when your bottom gear is a 28-28 and you're cranking up something really steep at 50 rpm. 1 cm pitch bike chains may slightly predate the MTB era, but would be arguably more useful now. The main benefit is that instead of the chain pitch being 12.7 mm (Calling 1 cm pitch chains metric chains is a bit of a misnomer, though the term was used at the time, since the inch is also a metric defined unit, so 1/2" literally is by definition 12.7 mm and if the length of the mm changes, as it did when the mm was redefined a few years back, the length of the inch will also change to continue to be 25.4 mm). The big benefit is that a 52 tooth bottom gear sprocket, would reduce in pitch diameter from about 210 mm to 165 mm, giving about 45 mm more ground clearance under the derailleur cage, all other things being equal, which could be the difference between completing a spin without an issue and a bent derailleur/anger for anyone riding low traffic trails. The derailleur cage needed to absorb the 42 tooth difference between bottom and top gear would also not need to be as long, so even more clearance savings there.

[@bjornzimmermann6554]

Linkage Forks...the grandfather was the AMP Fork and it was incredible!

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

I thought the Whyte look alright back then. Today AI’s knocking out 4-bar linkage limbs on their robots

[@joewickie2376]

I have had two on my Mantis. Only problem was wear on the pivots.

[@nielschristiannielsen198]

The Lawwill Leader fork was the great grandfather then 😉👍🏻

[@prolfinator]

Rich just dropped down my rankings list dissing on the proflex. Loved mine 20 years ago lol

[@gmbn]

😂 forgive him!

[@RichBikesBoardsBeats]

I still have working original Shimano Dual Controls on my 20 year old Scott Genius, and honestly missed it when I upgraded to a 2022 bike. For about 5 minutes. Then I didn't. But - they're still working!

[@pauljackson2836]

I absolutely loved my Hammerschmit on my 2013 Canyon Strive. I made some of my own seals for it and ran it full of oil instead of greasing it to reduce the drag. Redesigned today to reduce the weight it could be such a beast!

[@rosserobertolli]

I loved the dual control levers. They needed some getting used to but it cleaned up the cockpit and removed the shifter thingies near your thumbs

[@nielslund9359]

I put a Trust 'The Message' (their first and smaller travel linkage fork) on my '19 Tallboy. I loved the ground-hugging feeling and small bump absorption. You could go over roots or chunky sections while turning in a smooth, very enjoyable manner. Currently loaning the fork to employees of a local bike shop to play with and experience.

[@stuartwilkes4434]

Now I'm thinking about a Cannondale Ocho fork on a gravel bike..

[@williamreinhard]

The Cannondale Topstone has Lefty options.

[@IamSook]

I have a topstone with the Lefty Oliver (30/40mm of travel depending on the model year)

[@SuperAnatolli]

VooDoo Canzo was a URT_bike with very low pivot point. It worked great, both up and down and on the flats. But; not a big brand, so very few people knew about it.

[@tattboy1966]

Grip Shifters --------- nothing like twisting your wrist on a trail trying to hold on to the bars.

[@AndresDuarte00]

I have some suggestions Ceramic rims Grip Shifters Scandium Frames Long travel pivotless frames Non monoshock suspension frames like the Manitou Cable disk brakes ? Polar Power meters Other than steel cassettes Almost other than SPD or crank brothers clipless pedals (look, Time, Speedplay, Onza) Headshock front suspensions Integrated seatpost frames in MTB Non railed seats. Anything aero on MtB

[@tomg.542]

Just put cable brakes on my 29er after the Sram Guide hydro brakes failed. Made by Paul Components and work better than hydros and I won't ever have any boiling oil problems or whatever caused the brake to completely fail on a long, hot descent. Also will never give up my Time Atac peddles and cleats as they work far better than SPD. Just because a company has figured out how to corner the market (in this case Sram and Shimano) doesn't mean the products are better.

[@sageoz9886]

I still have and love the Action Tec titanium chainrings

[@eddierivera7803]

Love the Ocho but don’t look down when riding gnarly rock gardens.

[@garthTurningCranks]

Lefty Ocho Carbon 120 is AMAZING, but to the point, yeah the point of entry with propritary hub are valid. That said it is incredibly precise. In the same vein, the Girvin Fork was great for XC. The last generation with carbon legs and Noleen actively vavled shock was really close to being where it needed to be from a competition standpoint, but when K2 bought Girvin, experimentation and cutting edge design (even the ones that didn't work, but taught engineers something) were out the window in favor of profits.

[@petergibson7287]

Dual Control was absolutely not a flop and say so is madness. It was awesome and I had the last generation of it on XT, and used it from 2008 for eight years, first on a mountain bike and then as a commuter, and when I sold that commuter that it was fitted to, it still worked flawlessly.

[@simonwalker6825]

I had Slate with a lefty it worked really well. Took a bit of getting used to looking at it, but it never let me down 👍😀

[@wantahertzdonut]

I love my Trust Message for singlespeed. Nothing beats it for stand-up climbing.

[@camtabor4344]

If World Cup riders and Olympians are still using it the Lefty surely can’t be a flop.

[@mark_handle]

I ride a lefty! 20 years now and still great.

[@LloydJohnson-p4y]

Like the Lefty, the Lauf fork is still very much alive and well. It''s fantastically light and works great on a gravel bike!

[@w.c.skincare3951]

First time I've watched this channel and you bash the Lefty!! IT WORKS!!! THE LEFTY IS NOT A FLOP!!

[@OldManAzeban]

I’m with you Martin on the Hammerschmidt. I loved it on my bikes back in the day. It was a fair trade off for reliability.

[@DavidSnow-s2r]

I love my lefty on my 94 Delta v 900 and also my Proflex 856 with the Girvin fork I went to springs on it because the elastomer’s were junk. Yes I still ride both bikes to this day. Yinz guys didn’t say anything about bio-pace chainrings. Keep up the great work and stay safe out there.

[@austinkissling9036]

Leftys are so rad. My buddy has one and its crazy light and stiff super efficient to pedal

[@x3r0x0ul]

I absolutely loved my Shimano XTR dual control shifter brake levers. I had those on My Salsa Caballero that I built from the frame up with every part that I wanted (and could afford) and those things were fantastic.

[@hansheunis6661]

Those early/first Mavic tubeless rims with the threaded eyelets. A very complicated solution to make rims airtight for tubeless... Bar-ends and brake boosters perhaps as well.

[@frankb.4684]

I love my 17 years old Syntace flex stem. My first bike from 2000 with a Lefty was stolen, the 2nd bike with a Lefty I crashed completely on a tree.

[@PsyKeks]

People say fatbikes have flopped. Having come to this world only recently, I long for the times I can still see online with such wide choice of tires. - The light 4.5" wide slick for bad cycle path commuting and then put on the rowdy treads on the weekend. 🤩

[@AndresDuarte00]

I still have a pair of Dual Control shifter brakes on a Monster Gravel and I really love them. They are a blend of road/MtB which is what gravel is .

[@eldenthing1]

i dont ride it anymore, bu the lefty is genius. Stiffer and lighter... what more do you want? Flops you forgot... bar ends, spinergy, toe clips???? even though i love them still

[@lelezoli]

Shimano Dual control was a great invention! I like it very much. I have a GT with XTR dual control and it still works fine 21 years later!

[@lelezoli]

Actually it finished Balaton Bike Derby. But ok, I have a trek supercaliber too. :D

[@albertorbinati5511]

Oh those beautiful Ibis titanium bikes! I wanted one so very badly.

[@tonkshred]

Looking forward to hearing this story about pedal kickback and moving grips.

[@isitafox]

That Manitou full suspension frame. To this day I still think it was one of the coolest looking bikes going, surely there must be a way of resurrecting the concept!

[@willbodine9544]

I saw a Hammerschmidt crank on a quad bike for paraplegics. Creator said you couldn’t beat its reliability when the rider couldn’t just get off the bike to fix things. One-flyer

[@UnimagiStudio]

I've been using Cannondale Bad Boy 2 Lefty for 3 years. city ride and extreme gravel ride. still fine until now. even changing the lefty bearing and tyres is never a problem doing by LBS

[@galenkehler]

Kona "Suspension eXperience" bikes from ~96' were actually very awesome. Unified swingarm, but the lower pivot was really close to the BB so it eliminated pedal kickback but was still really active.

[@underbikedoverconfident1142]

The old leather pedal straps with the toe cages were the worst thing ever.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Even the ones with the nylon strap were terrible...

[@yupp9393]

Heck nah, they were the way to ride for like 50 years. Still work in a pinch if you don’t want to clog around in clip-less shoes.

[@gmbn]

True! They definitely belong on the pavement rather than on the trails

[@jameswilson2815]

Yeah. Just ask Joe Biden.

[@madrapperdave]

tell us you dont understand what a flop is without telling us....

[@newbiemike]

The Shimano Dual Control isn’t a flop. The concept is alive and well in the world of road bikes…introduced in 1990 as Shimano Total Integration (STI). It was a revolutionary design.

[@Ghostinsickness]

Love the lefty🤪

[@kevincross9206]

Always disagree about the Shimano Dual Control, had them on my Scott Scale 20, and absolutely loved that bike - shifters and all! Do agree about the Lefty though 👍🏻 Cannondale have brought so much to the table over the years, and I’d say the Lefty is iconic.

[@rogerd9405]

The Softride stem! Unlike the Girvin, this was an actual suspension stem. I've seen people flip over the bars because they hit a dip or an edge and the stem just dove on them.

[@blze0018]

I have one of those new flop-stems from Redshift on my touring bike and it's excellent for the horribly paved roads around me.

[@01FozzyS]

Had two of the Flex Stems and still have one on a Bridgestone MB-3. Found them pretty decent.

[@fubbaquestor]

Hydraulic shifting was a huge flop. Too expensive and 5 years too late with Acros and even moreso with Rotor's group

[@petersilie2432]

The Trust Shout linkage fork wasn't a technical flop, but a business flop! Mine is going strong, and the most surprising piece of tech I ever had the luck of getting my hands on. It literally made me ride faster and more controlled instantly.

[@hellowaves]

I have the dual control on my Vrx 200 and love them😂.

[@clhenry78]

Other flops: Allsop Softride Shimano low normal rear derailleur (though, I believe it was a good idea if introduced to more beginner riders). My Giant NRS Air had it. I think it was dual control too. Slingshot suspension cable down tube 2WD MTBs

[@LaurensvanRooijen]

Rode Lefty forks for about 12 years, first a 100 mm version and then a Lefty MAX with its travel reduced to 130 mm. Brilliant forks, USD in principle with a very low unsprung mass and super sensitive to small bumps thanks to those needle bearings. Not a flop at all. As for Shimano's Airline system, it was a pure one-by system and still has the best UI to date, being one thumb to shift up and the other to shift down - fool proof in the most choppy conditions. Dual Control on the other hand indeed was a flippin' mess: go ride down some stairs and see what gear you end up in... URTs fully deserve a spot in this clip - unsuspended when descending out of the saddle (which most people would do). And then there was this jack knife-like feel when sprinting out of the saddle or trying to jump those things.

[@matt_acton-varian]

URT doesn't work well because it requires the BB and therefore the rider's feet to be part of the unsprung construction, yet you want all your contact points to be part of the sprung mass. Cannondale's suspension ideas are left field but I wouldn't call them a flop. The lefty is still going strong in short travel guises for XC. The Headshok was an incredible design - very stiff and much lighter than what was available at the time. It unfortunately required proprietary stems with a 1.56' steerer diameter, and longer travel necessitated an even longer head tube therefore the design had limitations. As conventional forks got longer, stiffer and lighter, the lack of compatible choices of stems meant the design was phased out. I do think, however, that it could be brought back in a smaller package for gravel. Whether it happens or not is another question.

[@matt_acton-varian]

The Headshok also was incredibly supple over small bumps as it has lower stiction to overcome.

[@yodapig]

I agree, Headshok on an XC/Gravel bike still makes a lot of sense - clean, simple and smooth.

[@dwiesch]

You guys forgot the Motion E18 linkage fork. up to 170mm of travel and the anti-dive geometry was a really interesting idea! (Anti-dive meaning the fork did not compress during breaking like a telescopic fork does) I had one on my 2016 Tyee and was really happy with it untill I upgraded to a mullet Spindrift (front wheel to large for the fork, obviously). Still got it in the garage somewhere... might put it on my hardtail again.

[@PsyKeks]

Something like Hammerschmidt is still popular with recumbents and some special use cases. Best known and most used is probably 2-speed Schlumpf Drive (three versions available for big underdrive, big overdrive, considerable overdrive) and then there is 3-speed Efneo GTRO.

[@Zyzzyx42]

Had a Flexstem on my early Offroad (Proflex) full sus bike. Had an original Rock Shox RS-1 on the front. It managed big hits, but had nothing for small bumps. Paired up with the Flexstem it was a great combo; for the early 90s.

[@csj9619]

The compressed air shifter (Shimano Airlines) idea is likely from motorcycle drag racing air shifters. The motorcycle world is also where the girder fork came from (linkage fork).

[@homard62]

I have to disagree on including the Shimano Dual control shift/brake levers. I rode the XTR version for many years. I was racing MTB and I thought they were a huge upgrade. Never had a problem with them. I rode the Control Products "Linkage Fork" and that fork felt great. The knock was that the bushings needed to be replaced semi often.

[@MikErosTucker-g5u]

I actually own a Trek glide Y frame and I absolutely love it ❤

[@WylieCoyote45]

The Lefty is a brilliant bit of kit

[@mitrovarr]

Pressfit BBs would be a good future member of the list considering how many companies are walking them back. One of the most damaging flops as they affect the frame itself, you can't just swap then out for non-trash parts. I really, really wish my most recent bike purchase didn't have one, now I'm stuck with creaking hell forever and the only fix is to take it to a bike shop and very expensively have it fixed for like three months before it goes bad again.

[@swampy1584]

I love the Lefties

[@heywood165]

I really wanted a Girvin FlexStem when I was a kid, luckily Marzocchi released the Bomber fork so I never had to have the disappointment of one. 😂

[@Tonyrat1964]

I bought some all in one reverse shifter brakes for a commuter bike project. £50 because no one wanted them. They worked fine for that purpose.