10 Bikes That Promised To Transform MTB - But Failed

[@gmbn]

Have we missed a bike or component that deserves to be on this list? What tech did you think was going to change the world? Let us know in the comments! 👇

[@tobyblake197]

@@gmbn what about the Stage8 bike with the dual rear shock? I saw it at the NEC bike show back in the early naughties…

[@CDrewitt]

The Bionicon Edison should be on this list

[@pizza4921]

Suspension stems is a obvious one that I think you have in a older video but doomed to fail and some sound say the Suspension bars because no one else has taken that idea yet either

[@Colin.Robinson1]

​@@CDrewitt oh you were quicker

[@Colin.Robinson1]

John Tomacs 26 Gravelbike 😂

[@AliasHSW]

Remember when the Super V and Raven was launched it was absolutely jaw dropping design. The design has become so iconic it trickled down to budget bikes.

[@RobNaughton54]

I lost my ride with Schwinn for refusing to race their new Unified Rear Triangle bike at the World Championships in Vail, CO in 1994. My background was pro motocross and nobody in their right mind would mount the foot pegs on the swingarm of a dirt bike. Which was basically what the URT was. All the top brass from Schwinn were there for the debut if this revolutionary new design they were so proud off. Needless to say I got fired. Which worked out as the following year I won the X Games dual downhill the following year on a Foes beating Jurgen Beneke. So thank you GMBN for adding this POS design to the list. And a big FU to my old team manager for firing me for not racing their proud new POS that is still laughed at today. 😂😂

[@johndef5075]

Like the "mystique" of the Klein Mantra. It's a pos😅

[@johndef5075]

Sorry. Posted that before watching the rest of video😅

[@mobilewintercamp7515]

Cool story, good for you. I remember Beneke in magazines back then, he was a champion. That’s awesome to say years later.

[@nick_john]

What a great story! And cool that you raced for Foes. I still have my 96 Weasel.

[@wonderwatch2239]

Best thing is that you got the last laugh 👌👍🤣🤣 Thanks for a insightful interesting story 🤗

[@petegamble]

The San Andreas Mountain Cycle is clearly missing from the list… a dream bike of the nineties!

[@houseofsolomon2440]

Thank you for assembling this array of not-quite-awesome bikes. I love that the original classic diamond shaped safety frame is the most simple, reliable, scaleable (it can be made in any size) frame design to date. My steel Reynolds '853' mtb frame is so comfortable, no complicated pinions, bushings, gas or oil shocks, weird carbon fiber issues @ bb, etc. But I get the concept of gimmicks / 'attraction to shiny objects' manufacturers play upon to drive sales. Weird new stuff will always have a spike upon introduction... until the annoying issues start to crop up & the design gets dropped unceremoniously. Stay tuned for the next new mind-blowing design concept that will absolutely revolutionize the industry! & have that credit card limit increased to accommodate the new purchase! Someone is most definitely laughing all the way to the bank : )

[@TomCastello1]

Trek Y33 , I remember this bike when I was a teenager in the mid 90s, it was a dream bike at one point of mine.

[@dudeonbike800]

I still have the image of a black tRek Y, polished to a perfect shine, riding atop a black coupe, polished to a perfect shine, cruising through Los Gatos back in the day burned into my psyche. What a dweeb! POSEUR!!!!! In hindsight, that's about the BEST thing a Y bike could do - ride on top of a car! Ha, ha, ha!!!

[@FrankEhret]

The Cannondale Raven doesn't have an aluminum skeleton, it has a magnesium skeleton. The bike is still in my garage today.

[@kennethtimm1392]

Was surprised to not see Christini AWD

[@mdtrx]

afaik Pole also pioneered the longer and slacker with upright seat tube? Huge influence there.

[@Skooteh]

I think Mondraker was more influential in that respect, but Pole was definitely also one of the early adopters giving the concept legitimacy.

[@sakariputtonen2683]

@@Skooteh Pole was first, Mondraker came after

[@Skooteh]

@@sakariputtonen2683 Actually, it's the opposite. Pole started in 2013 while Mondraker had this video about "forward geometry" from 2012. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioiThZ5_bsuZqK8

[@2bfrank657]

I really want to see linkage front suspensions take off. There are so many potential benefits to be had - control of changes in wheelbase, trail, axle path, etc. as suspension travel changes, yet telescopic forks always seem to win out due to simplicity.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

A ton of scott bikes would make it in my list, notably the pull shocks, touted by journalist as revolutionary too often 😅

[@blubug768]

the black math is actually pretty cool!

[@growlith6969]

Oh definitely, I hope I see one in the wild, would make an offer on the spot.

[@nick_john]

I was expecting a black, um… bike. Oh well

[@canuckchuck8836]

I love the fact that Martin is reading along with Rich's parts.

[@martynashtonGMBN]

You are not supposed to mention that 😂

[@canuckchuck8836]

@@martynashtonGMBN Martyn, don't be embarrassed about being called out for mouthing Rich's parts...you have really improved your reading skills! 😋 Seriously though, you are an inspiration and an icon in the MTB world, don't ever change!

[@martynashtonGMBN]

@@canuckchuck8836

[@fasteddie2413]

I still have the old AMP fork on my Merlin Titanium from the '90's. Scary stuff.

[@F21_332]

In the late 1980s-early 90s, in the very early days of MTB, I was a factory rider for a now-forgotten company named "Legacy Bicycles". They did AWD bikes, and used a cable and additional gearing to make it happen. My race bike was an upgraded model that they called the "Snowbird". The production models were plagued with issues; primarily the AWD drive gear on the front wheel. It would click and clack in corners (but still functioned, despite the noise). They required a bit of tuning to get into the sweet spot. Other than that, just generally low-end components made for a not-too-great riding experience. My dad, who was an inventor, an Air Force avionics technician, and a generally very handy guy, dialed my race bike in (a never ending job for him); mine did not suffer the same ailment as the production models. My factory ride had a 27 speed drive train, the best squishy forks you could get (at the time, of course), longer cranks, and a slew of off the shelf high-end components. It was a very VERY nimble ride, and I can honestly say that I never once washed out on that thing. It pulled through corners like a beast. The only real issue that I ran into during races was mud; I would just try to avoid it whenever possible, and when not possible (which was fairly frequent), I would douse the gears in water from my water bottle to clear them out. NOT cool when riding an XC event. VERY not cool. Anyway, the Legacy WAS a sweet bike. After riding an AWD bike on a regular basis, I gotta say... nothing handles quite like them. These bikes were ahead of their time, and if someone actually devises a better, more reliable, and more robust drive mechanism, I would get one again.

[@dudeonbike800]

Easy, just use an electric front hub! There's your AWD bike!!!!

[@VTECH650]

you forgot one of the most unique bikes of the nineties the montain cycle san andreas

[@robertbrickmann8771]

You forgot to mention Bionicon bikes with their on the fly geometry adjust.

[@MC_5562]

Nobody outside of Germany knows these...

[@rickchalton]

@@MC_5562 I had one for several years, in the UK. There weren't many over here, but there were some. It was great fun, but sourcing parts for it became problematic

[@ChrisKiller]

I've owned 4 and still ride one that I've converted into an ebike.

[@davidmarsden7103]

Came here to say this. I rode them in the UK in 2008. Worked very well as a concept.

[@siriosstar4789]

The triangle is still the king of shapes , in a practical and strength sense to aesthetics .

[@krehme]

I had a Yamaha MTB with dual shocks front and rear. Had to have been in the 80s when I was in school.

[@dudeonbike800]

You had a Yamaha Moto Bike??? NO WAY! That was mid to late 70's according to my very suspect memory! But it was on the playground in elementary school when I saw my first and only. Looked SO COOL! Then I rode it... HOLY CRAP did it suck! Couldn't have been more disappointed. Sure left an indelible mark in my brain though!

[@danielbaz5940]

@@dudeonbike800 i find nothing about that bike. can you paste one link?

[@edrubin6042]

Whyte bikes were sold by BMW Motorcycles for a while because their front suspension is very similar to the Telelever front end on many BMWs

[@asdfghjvrty]

Cnc Machining a frame out of billet ally is unbelievably stupid and mega expensive.

[@richmiller8034]

The shop I worked for had a huge fleet of demo bikes and I had my choice of virtually every boutique bike to ride whenever I wanted in the early 90s. The Slingshot Boomtube was one of a small handful that I consistently chose to ride. I agree they sound silly, but ride one. They rode great. And there actually WAS another iteration of the Slingshot design. The ERB/Energy Return Bikes. It featured a different front frame and a stainless steel rod with doe spring instead of the cable and spring.

[@livinglifeontheedge4261]

The original designer of the SlingShot, Mark Groendahl, stareted ERB after he sold SlingShot. I also rode them and they did ride well but were slow to adopt 29" and I went that route in 99' with an AMP design FS I had custom made to fit the bigger hoops.

[@laeljon]

Most MTB riders are prejudice of the looks of products even if mechanically they work. I say nothing beats a great hardtail with a linkage fork.

[@AORD72]

And one gear.

[@Unamatrix01]

You forgot to include the Cannondal Super V DH Fulcrum and the Cannondale V4000 Magic Bike on the list.

[@dudeonbike800]

Dude on a Trek Y rolled past me yesterday as I was finishing my ride. I should have called out, "Old skool, dude!" but didn't. BTW, who was behind the design? I sure hope it was tRek and not Gary Fisher. What a disaster. Then again, I guess we should thank John Castellano, or whoever was the original designer, for all of the URTs that hit the market back in the late 90's. But TBH, the URT, the Raven, and all the other other failed designs (don't forget the Slingshot!), were part of the evolutionary process that allowed today's bikes to be so damn great!

[@nick_john]

Klein Mantra. You want to talk about high bottom bracket, my 96 Foes Weasel had a NEGATIVE BB drop.

[@alanbussell7894]

Check out Allen Millard's mountain bike. A one off he built for his son with probably the simplest of designs for a fork.

[@howardjones8629]

I second this, think he made a couple of variants, enclosed chain and single sided rear wheel, gearbox, made his own shocks. Clever bloke

[@Bonky-wonky]

@@howardjones8629wouldn’t consider it a ‘fail’ though, just a piece of technology that was too far ahead of its time.

[@alanbussell7894]

@@Bonky-wonky oh definitely not a fail but just seeing some of these weird and wacky designs just made me think of AM who just seems to be able to look at an engineering design and resolve any issues with it. A very clever man indeed 👍

[@gmbn]

Incredible bike, ahead of it's time it seems as gearboxes are making a return!

[@ChrisCapoccia]

Several of these looked like ideas ready for a second chance in gravel bikes

[@PatrickVroonland]

I still think the Cannondale Raven is a good looking bike which I unfortunately good not afford at the time at that time.

[@BryceLovesTech]

I would love to have a copy of every single one of these bikes. Life goals. I think some big ones are Amp Research, San Andreas, Trek Y bike, GT LTS, Canondale EST

[@robhaskins3068]

The best thing about all patents is that they stop others making the same mistakes.

[@Wyatt1314.]

Also, thinking outside the box expands the box-of-thought on what has been done to pave the way for the next 'out da box' thinker

[@BryceLovesTech]

I would love to have a copy of every single one of these bikes. Life goals.

[@frenchyroastify]

No Cannondale Pong bike! For shame.

[@theonlynafester]

holy sh** I remember seeing that Honda from the thumbail in Dirt Magazine, I think it was gunmetal or unpainted, looked absolutely sick .. yeah _that_ photo, I'm _sure_ that's from Dirt Mag shoot. Honestly that bike has a lot to answer for in terms of how I looked at what a bike really is

[@drewquarrie2116]

Any thoughts on the Klein Palomino or the Maverick RL 7?????

[@michaelgiessing2492]

I had a Klein Palomino. It pedaled well, but the bottom bracket was on the linkage arm, so you could feel everything.

[@2bfrank657]

The Giant NRS bikes could be added to this list. Rear suspension that was designed to have no negative travel and large amounts of chainstay growth in order to avoid pedal-bob. To be fair, it probably worked and provided hardtail like efficiency when out of the saddle, but the design was quickly lost to history.

[@LE_GRATIN]

it was the worse bike i'v never, ever, ride. pur garbage. Designed from renault-sport...not really soms bike specialist.

[@LE_GRATIN]

about honda RN01 : there was numbers of version. The first years, there is other than a derrailleur into the box, but last years they replace the other things by derrailleur because saving weight. there was a LOT of cut-wheight during all this bike-program

[@ptptpt5079]

Black Math is actually a brilliant design but I'm afraid it could be killed by the price and weight. I wish to have it.

[@marius655]

Pole´s geo was ahead of his time

[@dudeonbike800]

I cannot decide which is better, the comments or the video. Leaning pretty seriously toward the comments! Great job everyone!!!

[@prolfinator]

the variangle needs to take the idea to the extreme and make more aspects of the bike changeable and sell it to bike fitters exclusively

[@MC_5562]

That Honda bike was a pretty bike for the time! Also liked that Black Math bike. Not very pretty, but a cool "Transformer".

[@sety409]

I'm a year into the hobby and i think it looks great today. It would just need a bit of production polish.

[@Tony.795]

Those Showa forks sure look good.

[@lewisarchersings]

i was convinced the 2 stage bike was gonna be in this list! and the db sabbath, the gt i-drive! the cannondale scalpel pull shock system, all great but lost ideas

[@nukedathlonman]

Cool rides in this one. 🙂

[@EdwardBrewer-ku5dm]

Believe it or not, Slingshot was not the only one to build a frame with cable down tube. Energy Return Bikes also made/makes (they may still be in business) a similar frame design.

[@llkooldave6492]

also there was a sligshot bmx in the 80's, same design but double cable tubes, niche bmx but functioned well

[@jmilton5842]

You guys keep bypassing the Cannondale Pong bike! I guess that it never made it to production.

[@why3610]

Is Martyn a ventriloquist? When Rich talks Martyn's lips are moving. His talents are endless.

[@richardpayne5176]

You don’t want to know where his right hand is 😅

[@why3610]

@@richardpayne5176 Ouch, hope you borrowed some chamois cream from GCN. 😮

[@martynashtonGMBN]

Shhhh - you going to get me fired.

[@InTheFieldAlex]

Great fun chaps. Keep the chamois cream handy.

[@williamstapleton2696]

I have seen Seth review most, if not all of these unusual bikes and I recommend you ask him about the raised reverse stem by BMB. Pink bike also reviewed it.

[@allanfoster6965]

I remember a twin kevlar cabled BMX being touted about the same time.

[@bwest6275]

Sad that the Girvin nor Trust linkage fork didn't make the list.

[@chillout1109]

I'm buying that Structure Cycleworks SCW1 for my garage wall.

[@the_spanner_ch7mp]

Well you said it Rich some Bike Tripe right there The Honda will always be Great stuff Rich , Martyn and GMBN

[@ChampyOnPC]

Here's the thing... most of us don't have 6k to throw at a bike... You either cater to the market or don't expect insane demand

[@Bonky-wonky]

Speak for yourself, there’s a reason santa cruz is so popular despite often costing well over 6k.

[@robertdewar1752]

@@Bonky-wonky I think you've proved his point

[@growlith6969]

Most people, no. Most of the audience of this show would and have. I was a die hard ain't-paying-no-more-than-six-hundred-dollars-for-a-bike kind of guy, then I rented a nice full squish at a bike park and started justifying a $7000 purchase really quick.

[@Cevan42]

AMP Research B4 had a linkage from fork back in 1995

[@Max-wm9ee]

I feel Nicolai and their huge 14" of suspension and internal gearboxes could be on the list, I think they used a Rodolf internally geared hub as a transmission. From what I've read, internally geared hubs didn't shift well while under power. I'll be curious if the Zerode belt drive bikes end up a future version of this list

[@Leon83858]

the 3rd concept still exists though but insanely expensive with the WTF bike

[@alankeith]

Whyte PRST-1 (preston iirc?) - i had the very similar Whyte JW-2, which looked great but was terrible felt so unstable- i ended up over the bars twice unexpectedly on easy terrain & flipped it backwards doing a little wheelie off a kerb- not manoeuvres i am prone to doing 😀

[@alexandrtarasenko1531]

Why do I now want a blackmath bike?

[@galens2543]

Trek Y bike.

[@thetazandre]

I loved my Rocky Mountain ETS-X 50

[@apatriotofhopedanjohn4781]

As I have said before my POLE VOIMA Is my favorite ebike 😊

[@markcozzie]

Canyon recall batteries failure, please cover that issue

[@growlith6969]

I would buy that Black Math.

[@SimonMinifie-c4r]

Brookllyn Machines Works Racelink, Empire AP1, Ashton Justice

[@KlintonSilvey]

Those first POLEs were way ahead of their time on geo

[@markcozzie]

What about that big ebike recall with cracked battery's?

[@_burd]

For the Honda bike, the olde 'Own the design, not the factory.' is often why companies can come out of nowhere to try and solve an engineering problem, patent the solution and then otherwise not pursue commercialisation. They're smart enough to know that the solution is worth something, but the reality of owning the manufacturing process is not.

[@MickeyDeSadist]

What about the Flex Stem ... that seemed like it would pitch your arms back ...OR when Shimano put the gear changing devices to work inside the brake levers?

[@twescher]

It's fun to watch Martin lip sync the other guys lines 😂

[@deanwaring6100]

I owned a Slingshot mtb, and yeah, you need to learn how to pedal smoothly. Once mastered, a very fast bike.😊

[@dudeonbike800]

It would be fun to ride a Slingshot on rollers!

[@TheNoseman1]

I have seen 2 Pole bikes here in North Van and both had bad corrosion on the top tubes from rider sweat (white oxidation of the aluminum). I don't think the coating works very well considering how much rain is here to wash sweat away...

[@philipparris4287]

Goes round and round.I'm into tracklocross

[@kennethcampbell7263]

The soft ride was and adaptation of the same thing that was used for triathlon bikes at the time. For that form of riding it was good but Aero bikes of today are much better. There are a couple of bikes I would love but I am thinking more a recumbent trike now.

[@Dellvmnyam]

Many cyclists consider the suspension a comfort rather than a perfomance feature.

[@pupetxls2]

Empire - cast aluminum frames

[@madjh8]

Variable travel and geometry? That is old, My ETSX70 does since 2006 and was advance, in long travel mode it has 68º head angle and feels quite good for today standars, the Orbea Rallon did a bit different, the more travel, the more angle, so feels weird but rocky mountain even today has and it is fantastic.🥰

[@-IE_it_yourself]

3:30 all of the motocycle industry doesnt seem to have that problem.

[@rctankchannelone7558]

Should of put in the Christini AWD 👍🤣

[@jeroenhuijbers8582]

I like the Raven, but have a better (imo) version of this design in my shed; the '99 Jamis Diablo. I was just returning to mtb after 10 years of partying (90's 😅) in 2003 and went full into the 'I want everything carbon' phase. Then I saw this Jamis and it looked like a spaceship... Rode pretty good with more modern forks, but had such a specific rear shock I couldnt replace it for modern unfortunately. Built it up with 1st gen SID, 1st gen Crossmaxx and M952. Still looks like a spaceship 😊 Never seen another in the flesh.

[@underbikedoverconfident1142]

Me: The cutsomers decide the future and are always right!... Ok. where can I get one of those green and yellow Super V 400's. lol

[@JohanLarssonKiruna]

Come on, of course it was the UCI ban that put a stop fot the Softride bikes.

[@drill_fiend1097]

Honda must've trenbled when Pinion released an actual gear box for MTBs...

[@MrJasonodonnell]

Have ridden five of these in one form or another.....none of them were bad even through a modern lens......if you "know how to ride".

[@Yhoda.PsyTrakked]

Ive never understood why they dont just use moulds and pour the molten metal into the mould and boom a hollow frame thats in one piece and requires zero bonding. Humans have used moulds ls for metal things for thousands of years

[@dayinnymtb]

Because that isn’t as strong. Metal has grain, when it is hydro formed it compresses those grains which adds to strength. Poured into a mold produces a very loose grain structure.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Forging has numerous advantages over casting, extrusion, stamping and hydro forming produce a material that is much superior.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

​@@dayinnymtb exactly! didn't see your reply before posting 🤟

[@blacklabel131]

You really think that with millions in r&d, professionals in material science and decades of experience, they wouldnt do it if it was better? Obviously it isnt...

[@iancarlson-w8m]

The nut-sack fastener seat never quite took off.

[@cripmeister9104]

3:51 I wonder why it failed

[@nigelsmith7366]

I am developing a new version of my Proflex 957

[@robertmoore119]

I think that some of those concepts might not ever be popular based upon appearance, but sometimes people just want something different that works. So people do what they do. As far as that variangle concept. To me, I think they have approached the market in the wrong way. Some people might find that appealing as a development concept.

[@mechpade]

me and my Structure SCW1 🤣

[@duncanicook]

Has Martin been sitting in the rain under a chestnut tree ....without a hat on🤔

[@bengray5013]

Vario made interesting frames

[@fighettomuori6719]

Honda project failed?!?!?!?!?

[@SingleTrackMined]

I will never understand why it is a disadvantage to have the fork angle steepen and the wheelbase shorten when braking. When I'm braking into a turn I want the steeper angle for easier steering. Then it slackens back for straight line stability. A traditional fork is perfect for that. All this foolishness about anti-dive geometry and consistent wheelbase is just noise, imo.

[@ryndym]

You shouldn't be braking while steering in the first place.

[@SingleTrackMined]

Learn to ride. Then get back to me. I've been doing this for 33 years. I know what I'm talking about.

[@ryndym]

@@SingleTrackMined classic

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

A steeper headtube angle isn't synonymous with easier steering by itself, thus the famous "longer, lower & slacker", learn about geometry and come back to me; I've been riding since 1988 😂💀

[@SingleTrackMined]

​@@LaurentiusTriarius Wrong. Steeper is generally quicker. I detest the longer lower slacker movement. I raced motorcycles before mtb so I would be dead if I didn't know this stuff. Trail braking-look it up.

[@mikebillett7935]

How about the Proflex 5500 carbon bike Martin, two halves sandwiched on a carbon spine, cost a fortune to build and proflex lost money on every one they sold, before K2 stepped in and discontinued it. Ps. You tested mine when you had a spare evening in Sweden many years ago. (You didn't really like it) 😀

[@LE_GRATIN]

i never ever see this bike in real world. They don't haved sell so many.

[@Deanwesterhoff]

I like the Honda bike😅

[@sety409]

WHY TF is the pole site still up like I can place an order?! It hurts me so bad. I was mms from buying one and ultimately bought an ibis Oso because of the lead time. I dodged a bullet there.

[@davideades4839]

Why don't you guys do your homework for these videos? Many companies followed the Klein Mantra URT design. Rocky Mountain made the Speed and Pipeline while I worked there. Many others made them too. The Alsop Softride suspended the rider concept actually makes for the smoothest gravel and multi-road bike you will ever ride. No modern rear traditional suspension even comes close on high frequency small bumps. There are some less radical versions now. Any linkage based suspension seat post, the 2 spring carbon posts by Canyon I think and the Specialized Sirrus X and Orbea step through ebike using that same interrupted seat tube leaf spring design. Guys and media channels like you need to know your history and open your minds. Bikes like the Softride and Sirrus X serve specific riders for specific uses better than the same old bikes in different colours. They are aimed at road racers or hard core mountain bikers who collectively make up a fraction of the total bicycle riding population and market world wide.

[@dudeonbike800]

Any Alsop-beam tandem bicycle: sales proof! I see them linger and linger perennially on CL. I wouldn't take one for free. Wouldn't take one for money, either! A friend of ours bought one used 20 years ago. He thought he'd meet women with it. That idea failed. And when he turned around to sell it, he realized he had another failure on his hands. Friend of mine was on a road ride in Santa Barbara back on the day when he met a guy on a beam road bike. "How to you like the beam bike? LOVE IT, but my knees have been bothering me." No kidding! Hilarious.

[@hansmaker1236]

I wish e-bikes would be on that List. 😉

[@gmbn]

getting the debate going Hans! 🤣

[@hansmaker1236]

@ forever guys

[@dudeonbike800]

PS Do I get extra credit for mentioning the Trimble???? Loved the tiger stripe paint jobs on those babies in the 80s!!! PPS The Klein Mantra, is without a doubt, the UGLIEST bike ever made. And it's sucky performance is just the cherry on top. YUCK!!!

[@dudeonbike800]

"MAR-in?" Sorry blokes, it's "Mar-IN," dammit! Birthplace of the mountain bike, Marin County, California. Gotta pronounce it correctly next time you're in San Rafael (said San "Ra-FEL")!