The BIGGEST PROBLEM With Dragon Ball Super

[@inkchariot6147]

Zeno button. Nobody can defend this.

[@williamcase426]

Should have been zero button

[@RainSpitter]

Pushing the Zeno bottom could backfire. It technically did in the Goku black arc. The whole future got erased.

[@Reuraku]

@@RainSpitter The thing is you can tell by Goku's reaction that it was his plan to have Zeno wipe out that universe. It ending that way also made the arc completely irrelevant, the wanted to save the world/timeline but wiped it out instead and Trunks who asked them for help doesn't even seem to have a problem with everything he ever fought for and even the souls of his dead family and friends are gone.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

​@@Reuraku Exactly, the ending to the Goku Black arc should have been a tragedy where the heroes failed and then made a horrible mistake by trusting Zeno, instead it's treated like a happy ending and the consequences are swept under the rug.

[@AstraFulminous]

Foreshadowing. They talked about Zeno at the start of the arc and Zamasu is well, immortal.

[@WouldURatherHoops]

Gohan has these filler episodes in the saiyan saga that are so touching i nearly shed tears. Mr Robot, the wounded dinosaur, and the group of orphans. I was so used to the way dbs operates i expected them all to get happy endings.😂

[@marca8368]

GT have a lot of problems, but at least had the gutts to continue the story

[@JaiRana-cl3td]

So true

[@cringekiller348]

Nah it was far worse than Super

[@tomasguilherme263]

​​@@cringekiller348nah far better, while it had a lot of problems. It actually progressed and gave an amazing ending to the story, made a decent powerscalling of characters, no side characters to op for the sake of nostalgia like roshi in super. Unique ideas, with the black star db, baby, evil dragon balls was the best idea in a long time and is yet to be surpassed, ssj4 is the best written and desgin form in all the shows (ties with ssj for me), actual decent art stlye and ok animation, while super had great animation for hype moments the rest 90% of the show as trash animation. Gt also had actuall consequences and stakes, it kept the serious aspect of dbz while progressing the characters, super just regressed half of the cast and had them relearn all the lessons from previous arcs. Super is just a massive fan service show.

[@JaiRana-cl3td]

Definitely👍

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Reject God ki return to M O N K E

[@williamcase426]

Dragon Ball Super has so many problems. Too many to count.

[@DeathNotexo]

No it doesn't. Most of the "issues" in super are present in Z

[@drizzziit1]

@@DeathNotexo Absolute super glazer. Super is RIDDLED with issues. Most of them stem from making the show much more kid frendly, especially in regards to the anime. Moving goalpost of Beerus, Whis able to nullify all outcomes and thus removing all tension... The future timeline as a whole being RUINED by bad writting and deleted outright. The insane amount of fanservice. The inability to do a villain that isn't just cell 2, buu 2, frieza 2... Frieza himself being brought back for what is honestly fanservice. Awfully boring transformations that serve little narrative purpose (Again, the drama and tension, the risk is gone) with a few exceptions like UI. Characters being assassinated and regressed despite having matured in Z. Scaling becoming wack with frieza doing push ups and eclipsing gods (Crushes the suspension of disbelief hard for the sake of making artificial tension and bring him back for the hundreath time as the villain) I can go on and on.

[@henrygokufan10]

​@@drizzziit1I have never seen someone willing to defend dragon Ball z even though it is as flawed as dragon Ball super

[@GuilhermeOliveira-ou4qv]

@@DeathNotexo yu are in denial bro, you're probably a little kid you grew up with Super. Shame on you

[@GuilhermeOliveira-ou4qv]

@@drizzziit1 you cooked with this comment

[@GeteMachine]

The lack of a threat of death for the other characters is also oddly missing from Super. For one, in Super, their fights with the villain are never really on Earth or feel like a threat to it directly. Goku Black fought on Earth in the main timeline once, but got pulled away. Trunk's future was already destroyed so we never actually saw the threat of him destroying it. We never really feel like the villain is actively going around and affecting the main timeline's Earth or anothe planet at all, the way the Saiyans threatened Earth or how Buu did. Freeza blew up Earth at the last second, but Whis undid it (Whis and Beerus being around also just kills any tension for me.)

[@tshedisojohannes9321]

Facts! And it's all because ultimately they'll step in to offer some assistance, whether directly or otherwise. Even in the Moro Arc Beerus almost stepped in to save them before he was called off. Their presence kinda alleviates the tension a bit. Frieza destroying the earth should have had its own narrative consequences. But Whis just happened to be around to undo everything convenient enough for Goku to snatch the final blow from Vegeta.

[@purplevincent4454]

Of all the problems with super this is the one that is least important. There is no threat even if villains do destroy earth so long as the dragon balls are around. In order to reintroduce tension in plot the dragon balls need to be written out of the series.

[@ThomasHoughton-dj5ei]

Beerus and Freeza were on Earth, Goku Black came thru as you said, Broly Moro the Superhero movie hell Earth being invaded Again was wild and had everyone doing shit

[@unrecognizably]

my guy, trunks timeline was fcking eradicated from existence 💀 you will never see sum like that in z

[@boltskyline2957]

​@@unrecognizably reddit

[@PotatoesFromSaturn]

It’s more of a spectacle now. It lost its grit, its dialogue, pace, story telling and character growth. But most of all it just LOOKS less serious. The color grading, cinematography and tension in scenes is absolutely gone and replaced by a Nickelodeon studio. DBS Broly was the best thing to come out after GT. Here’s hoping they go with that same production for Supers continuation…

[@stephanos6128]

3:39 tbf if youre a good writer, starting a story with the ending can be effective. the journey has to be well written. its a pretty difficult thing to do.

[@Hakaishin-225]

Dragon ball super feels so userious to Z, but i still enjoyed both

[@justinmoreno390]

To be honest with you, after watching Dragon Ball Z for many years now, it doesn't seem to me to be the most edgy thing as many people say, you can still feel the carefree tone of the original Dragon Ball sometimes. (And that's even though I watched Kai where there are no fillers, most of which are comedy episodes)

[@unrecognizably]

@justinmoreno390 people just glaze anything old even tho its objectively not true

[@brianbenjamin653]

@@unrecognizablydisagree, Goku and piccolo fighting raditz was an eye opener, and nothing in super can compare. Our main character died and there were stakes and urgency

[@user-ou5ls2xc7v]

My take: the series having low stakes is precisely the reason why Goku’s character has shifted towards being more goofy and careless. Danger’s presence during the Saiyan Saga and Frieza Sagas was suffocating. In fact, besides Goku bouncing around on his gravity training ship and the needles filler, I can’t think of a single joke he makes between these two sagas. His son is constantly in danger, his friends are dead or dying. But even when they’re safe, in the Frieza Saga for example, he has a *felt* degree of control over the situation, even if his optimism seams unreasonable. Even *later* in the series. He’s not as *desperate* when he’s G-checking Cell, or when he’s stalling Buu so Trunks can grab the radar. But he’s not acting irresponsible either, poking Cell’s crown or playing with Babidi’s head wrinkles or whatever. In Super, though, Goku has serious moments when he’s forced into them, but it’s all undercut by how often he can bounce back into nonsense or fall into a false sense of security. Examples being: his blustering preamble with Beerus on King Kai’s planet, Sorbet’s cheap shot in RoF, Frost’s needle, even his interactions with Zeno. They lay into how not-threatened he feels by nearly anything that happens in the series, but not because he has confidence in his abilities, or has a seasoned warrior strategy of any kind. In fact, it’s more likely that he’s forgotten any of those strategies, ones hes learned in his adolescence training with Roshi, Kami, Popo, and King Kai. They make him do that because it’s funnier. That’s…not how his goofy side was *ever* written, or how it should be. But when the ongoing series lacks any threat to begin with, what should I expect?

[@SkateBoardingCowLOL]

you look similar

[@joshuahackshaw7703]

That pretty much summed it up nice one

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

I would agree If Toei didn't mostly write Goku like that but they usually do. In the Cell or Buu saga Toei makes it clear Goku isn't really up there with strategy. He mostly believes in what he sees in people to decipher how they all end up winning. I hate bringing it up but this is the same guy who gave Cell a senzu bean. His goofiness in Super is characterised by his actions in The Cell saga and the Buu saga, Super makes it clear the lack of stakes exist because Goku doesn't want to fight the deadliest. He simply wants to fight the strongest whilst showing them how merciful and blissfully innocent he is about everything. That's not because that's how it was Ever written. That is because that is how he IS written now that he doesn't have the constant beckoning of murder and Kid Buu in his vicinity. He gets to do what he wants because he has proven he is a warrior not a saviour. That's Gohan and the next generations role.

[@GeteMachine]

My problem is that most of the arcs don't feel like characters are progressing and just bad pacing. Like with the Zamasu arc, we never got to any narrative build up to how they achieved their power, or him as a threat the way we got build up to Cell and Buu/Kid Buu. Super does a lot of tell-and-not-show. The other characters also don't do anything. In Z Goku and Vegeta would be reserved for the climax of the arc while the other characters would be trying to fight or hold off the main villain for a while until they can't, or they would be searching for something they needed. In Super, some times its just Goku & Vegeta from start to finish. Like there is no reason Piccolo, Gohan, Tenshinhan, Roshi, Goten & Trunks couldn't be in the DBS Broly movie together like the Z fighters were in the original fighting together. Or give the other characters focus for a chapter in the arc, like how the Cell arc had Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin do things solo, or Tien showing up to hold back Cell. You don't get that in Super. Super also not having a story also makes the arcs and transformations far less meaningful. Like did we really need Black Frieza to show up, let alone out of no where and again only because he "trained off screen for 12 hours" or something? Thats not how DBZ was. Its so lazy. I also wish they kept the forms just classic Super Saiyan. It seems like whenever they try to come up with forms that do different things, half the time they are vague, inconsistent or don't make much sense.

[@davidsiraze8365]

🎉🎉🎉 true

[@imanca8217]

The characther aren't progressing is so true.

[@Dante560]

Tien holding Cell was lit back in the days... No one expected Tien to have enough power to hold a Super Saiyan level threat

[@jeremyknight9980]

Yeah I can agree the End of Z saftey net does hurt Super's steaks, one of the few things I liked about GT was that it took place after End of Z.

[@_-Bane-_Main]

Some of my favorite parts of the Dragon Ball series are the times where the Dragon Balls are completely unavailable. When Nappa killed Piccolo, everything went straight to Hell in the best of ways, since he was the one person there who the group absolutely couldn’t afford to lose. From then until his resurrection in the Namek saga, it was a genuinely tense time frame, and even afterwards, his life was still in peril given that Namek’s dragon was gone. After that, there was his merge with Kami, which gave a massive power boost, but at the cost of their only safety net aside from the not-yet-discovered New Namek. Super just doesn’t have that until the Tournament of Power, as there are, at any given moment, 2 sets of vastly upgraded Dragon Balls.

[@ueharajunior21]

Super needs to separate itself from Z and become it's own timeline. Leave End of Z alone and become it's own thing.

[@SPAFANG]

That’s dumb

[@imlazy_loll]

You'd have a point if Suoer wasn't canon, but it IS canon, so it wouldn't work

[@justinarzola4584]

That's not gonna happen.

[@hbshadow8981]

@@imlazy_lollconsidering end of Z never mentioned anything of super and is going to inevitably be rewritten to fit everything that happened in super has made fans perceive super as its own timeline (i.e, not canon to toriyama’s original manga)

[@Har22-c4s]

​@@hbshadow8981 But retconning doesn't mean it Shouldn't be canon.

[@GeteMachine]

Another issue I have, is that I think the worst thing about Super is, it feels like there are no real consequences in the arcs. Beerus lets Goku go (BOG), Whis rewinds time (ROF), Goku and Hit quit (TOD), Zeno just randomly destroys everything but Whis sent Trunks & Future Mai into a different timeline (Zamasu), and TOP has everything just undid because 17 was not selfish. Everything always feels like it was just undid. But at least in the Buu arc, the characters had to work for their happy ending. In Super, things just end when someone shows up to just end it.

[@Purelynostolgic]

Bro wants the bad ending

[@ArtificialIntelligentMask]

@@Purelynostolgic not exactly, an *earned* good ending, not a good ending literally achieved through pure luck

[@MajinUltraEgo]

​@@ArtificialIntelligentMask The people who say "Dragon Ball Super has no stakes" are the same people who complain about Trunks legit getting his timeline erased 😂

[@ArtificialIntelligentMask]

@@MajinUltraEgo the thing is... The characters are better off without the whole timeline being erased, plus the execution is awful, mainly with trunks not showing any reaction which is single handedly the most out of character thing I could think of for someone like future Trunks

[@grimdara4227]

​@@MajinUltraEgoYou'd have a point if the whole arc wasn't about saving Trunk's timeline and whoever was left only to abruptly conclude it.

[@GeteMachine]

I think "the journey" towards something is definitely what the problem is. Super's arcs feel way too contained and episodic compared to Z, and even GT where it had arc progression (especially the Baby arc) where they had to overcome different threat conditions that the villain set them up against to bring tension. Looking for the Androids was a journey, going to Namek was a journey, having to get the fusion right, and to stronger on short notice to fight Buu was a journey. Watching Super, everything feels very status quo bound. Everything just feels exactly the same as how they start, a lot of the time. Where's in Z, even Goku feels different from when they start an arc to when they finish it. The characters feel like they've grown and learned something.

[@Reuraku]

With super there is little to no build up they just get straight into the fights and usually the big fights, no Nappa or Ginyu where you know someone stronger is behind them just here is strong opponent fight them. With Battle of Gods only Beerus fought, with resurrection F there was Freiza and nameless fodder, Black arc there was just Goku Black, and in the TOP it was a battle royal and we don't have enough info to tell who's the real threat until they start fighting so no build up.

[@spritvio639]

The only reason why the End of Z is a problem is because Super basically fumbled everything else. Trunks' timeline is obvious. But ideally though, even if DBS was in the same timeskip, sure we would know Universe 7 makes it out fine, but there would still be an unknown factor for the other ones. If Super played it's cards right the TOP would have happened later with arcs of build up for the other universes so we could actually feel a connection with them. Also, so it wouldn't be such a Universe 7 sweep thats left, most of them basically 1 dimensional fodder that no one wants to see anymore.

[@GeteMachine]

Yeah, we should have gotten a U6 arc and a story for Jiren shown before TOP to show what was on the line for them (at least the important characters).

[@GuilhermeOliveira-ou4qv]

TOP should have been the last arc of the show until the End Of Z, it was rushed and it ended up with 90% of the cast looking like jobbers with horrible designs. We needed more time to get to know other universes and feel a connection to them, even if it was small. But now, those universes that participated in the TOP (despite the 11) already lost any interest

[@VisionTruthFN]

I remeber watching the tournament of power and while it was insanely hype I was only able to re watch it once because there are just no stakes. A lot of the characters in that tournament are just really good people, it was most likely that the person who won was going to bring back the other universes.

[@delix787]

7:55 That is the most polite way to end a video! 😇

[@terrance1988]

Agree 100% Percent I don't get that same feeling when I watch Super that I get with Dragon Ball Z I still rewatch Dragon Ball Z to this day and get goosebumps and emotional I rewatch Dragon ball Z like 50 time including the dragon ball movies I watch Dragon ball super one time and didn't have any desire to go back to it at all that's how I knew something was not right with super even so the Buu Saga is the actual ending of the dragon ball franchise Super is A what if to me and never will be accepted

[@telldetruth9259]

We know how it ends so this series is basically “vibes” 😂😂😂

[@justinarzola4584]

Super is like Candy, very tasty or colorful but not beneficial or good for you in the long run.

[@mysticsaiyan5802]

I agree, but also look at the thumbnail itself, toriyama's style was so alive, so dynamic and great overall, whereas toyotaro doesn't really get it, characters look shallow

[@stephanos6128]

I feel toriyamas background as an advertisement artist in college, as well as comedy artist, plays a huuuge role in it. also just overall a passionate artist. toriyama was basically trained to get audiences to read his works, to drag their eyes around, he probs has an idea of like psychology of images and what people find appealing. so his compositioning and artwork is like pretty darn good especially his early stuff. And his comedy gives him a good idea to visually set up a punchline, so he know how to do vidual buildup and visual pacing cusmof his comedy. you see the lack of this later on in Cell and especially Buu saga due to his burnout however it's still there in some highlights. I study Torigamas older works and I notice his paneling is drawn in a way that feels like a very very advanced 4-koma or 8-koma comic. Vertical storyboards but kicked up a notch. Toyataro, to my knowledge, is a self taught dojin artist, under mad prsssure, especially now that Toriyama passed. nothing *wrong* with being self taught, Im self taught, but one needs to like fully understand that comics are more than just detailed pretty pictures in diagonal squares. I say all this as a self taught artist cus I see the same pitfalls in my work in Toya's work. I also read shoujos and theyre notorious for their panels and readability taking a back seat for pretty pictures and details However going by interviews Toriyama doesn't seem like the *best* mentor, as in he's not good at teaching Toya. "work smarter not harder!" isn't exactly good advice imo. I think his "eh whatever" attitude doesn't help Toyataro either. its a good attitude to ha e for art especially in a mangaka's schedule but I dont think Toyataro has really learned anything about what makes a visually good manga like DB was. One thing they both fall in is storytelling, once Toriyama can't visual tell his otry, characters start yapping. Toyataro, being a worse mangaka, has a BAD HABIT of this- like characters would repeat what we saw due to his lack of confidence in showing us the story. The TOP was really egregious about this imo even the anime had this problem. Both really use Tell Dont Show as a crutch but Toya is pretty much made a bad habit out of it. TotallyNotMark nas a video or row going into Toyataro's hiccups as an artist but he thinks he improved, I don't think Toya really did, looking at his new stuff... He redid the Saiyan Saga recently for some promotional anime and it's absolutely night and day compared to the original saga.

[@mysticsaiyan5802]

@stephanos6128 Thank you so much for your comment, it was so interesting to read, and i agree on the fact that he hasnt really improved

[@imanca8217]

​@@stephanos6128 you sum it up great but honestly I also factor up the fact that "being good in something doesn't equal to being good at teaching those things too" I collect Original DB run ( DB And DBZ) along with DBS and my favourite look for DB was always the Piccolo jr Saga all the way to End of Namek. In Cell Saga is where I do notice his art start detriorating but I will excuse it since he is kinda stress out by that point.

[@imanca8217]

TNM did explain it better but Toriyama is easily on of the best if not the best during his serialization in making Manga fight looks 3d like ever since Tenkaichi Budokai got introduce

[@stephanos6128]

@@imanca8217 mans was killing it day 1 imo, yamcha getting punted *out* of the panel still makes me laugh more than any of Super's "jokes" ever had

[@rudysmith1552]

Hakai doesn’t permanently erase people and the Dragon Ball can resurrect them that remove half of the tension. There are two godly entities in Beerus and Whis who can essentially bail out any non-Multiverse threat. There was a multi-verse genocide and nothing happened.

[@luisfernan-s7731]

Actually, Hakai DOES in fact erase. Just because an external (and very limitless powerful) source can reverse it doesn't inherently make it otherwise. Also, Whis is neutral, the only one who is important is beerus since he is responsible for NOT doing he's job (like any other of their respective characters). Like, yeah, Whis can reverse time for minutes... Did he do it again? No...

[@Ryujibarbarian]

Future trunks pulling a rick and morty

[@MallyG-r4t]

Great video

[@Chronically0nline]

I'm glad to see the fanbase is wising up.. can't wait for these kinds of videos about Daima in about 8-9 years.

[@delix787]

Every shonen battle series will ALWAYS lie to it’s audience about sacrifices, creators will always find reasons to bring somebody back or make consistent fake outs in order for the story to keep going in a certain order.

[@NousagiCaptain]

That wasn't the point of this video, it was about how knowing the end removes stakes entirely. Ongoing battle Shonen do NOT have this problem. What characters will be part of the crew, or alive when Luffy reaches the one piece? Is the one piece actually real? Where is it? All of these uncertainties are needed. If you answer all of these questions and then circle back and try to tell the story the stake will vanish.

[@DerpyGustin99]

Beerus, Whis rewind, and the Zeno button, End of z. All that needs to go so that we have more steaks 🥩

[@MajinUltraEgo]

The people who say "Dragon Ball Super has no stakes" are the same people who complain about Trunks legit getting his timeline erased 😂

[@purpleey]

​@@MajinUltraEgo except there was literally no loss felt due to how it gets resolved

[@Dakiojuyken]

@@MajinUltraEgobecause it’s dumb😂

[@SPAFANG]

Just cause you know the ending doesn’t mean the journey to end isn’t enjoyable

[@ligtningdog6399]

But the journey itself still has to be enjoyable.

[@SkateBoardingCowLOL]

⁠it is

[@imanca8217]

The journey who suppose to be "10 years of peace"

[@NuttyBlueRice]

Ignoring the time skip stuff, the stakes are lower in super because the show is extremely goofy and made for kids. Some portions are so goofy that it feels like I am watching Alf or something like that. You can't feel tension in a show with atrocious clown music and a main protagonist that acts like Peter Griffin.

[@avanagenda5840]

And the thing is its so fixable too. Like js add new things like new characters and planets and put them at stake. Like things that arent guaranteed to stay at the end of Z

[@thedirkiestdigg4050]

It worked well with DBS broly for example. We get attached to Broly by the end of the movie, and the tension then becomes whether Broly will live or not. Quite simple, but quite effective

[@RF-tw7jb]

I love this video man, honestly I totally agree. Super could've been revealed to have been another timeline that super vegito accidentally created when fighting buuhan or ssj3 goku vs kid buu because of buu's insane power, or if could have taken place after z entirely. What I'm trying to say is that there's almost no reason for Super to exist other than powerscaling (or at least that's what's coming to my mind right now but you know what I mean)

[@louiekings1217]

One of my favorite lines from Z is when Krillin asks goku why him and gohan are taking it easy before their fight with cell and Goku says “these are precious times Krillin, being together is everything.” Moments like these are why I loved how Goku used to be written in Z. Not everything was a joke to him

[@RyanParkerTV]

Great insight. Subscribed

[@jakeybakey4271]

The biggest fix is to time skip to end of Z or actually killing someone in Super like Beerus, we don’t know if he is still around at end of Z.

[@bigboiinfinity]

I have to agree but I think in some capacity it’s nitpicking dragon ball super simply because most of what you’re describing is an issue with prequels in general 6:06

[@thewolfbeast816]

Also the problem with dbs is the lack of choreography like the fights in dbs are lazy to show any good choreography,it's just too repetitive .

[@cer1996]

You clearly didnt watch z

[@thewolfbeast816]

@cer1996 I said super not z I mean, z clearly has amazing choreography, especially in fights like 17 vs piccolo and Goku vs cell,Goku vs majin vegeta as well as their first fight in the Saiyan saga. Read next time to get what I mean, ok?👍

[@thewolfbeast816]

​@cer1996 You said i didn't watch Z. What's next, are you going to say I didn't watch og db

[@cer1996]

@thewolfbeast816 the scenes in z fights was repetative aswell even more than super

[@thewolfbeast816]

@cer1996 More repetitive?Cap, Z fights had more creativity,less ki spams like we had in super, and if you see super fights,they rely to much on rapid punches and ki spams showing less choreography especially in the top arc.If you watch Z then you wouldn't be saying this and saying Z is more repetitive is just obsurd.

[@boltskyline2957]

And the horrible power scaling issues that came ever since they said goku base = ssg goku from bog. Now anyone who could whoop base goku could give beerus a better fight than ssg goku

[@drewsizey3314]

I definitely get what you mean with knowing the end of Z is upon us. But dragon ball super still had me on the edge of seat. Not so much the beerus arc but that goku black for sure did. Then when we got to the ToP a few moments in that has me stressed. Master roshi’s kamehameha that knocked out that one dude, Goku Turing ultra instinct the first time. Now even the manga with Moro, Gas, and the return of freeza black. I know everything is going to be fine but i still get hyped. And stressed wondering about what’s going to happen. Maybe that’s just the nostalgia unlocking

[@imanca8217]

Basically a candy. Good for dopamine. Bad for overall health

[@RoseRem]

“we want consequences in super!” -the entire future timeline gets destroyed permanently- “Nooooo!! why did you do that that was such a bad idea😭😭😭😭”

[@ArtificialIntelligentMask]

@@RoseRem 1 that's executed well

[@RoseRem]

@ I agree, but consequences are consequences whether we like how they are done or not

[@bowldawg4394]

The problem with Trunk's timeline being erased is that it has absolutely 0 impact on the story afterward like it should. Trunks never comes back grieving what he lost, the fact that everything he fought for was all for nothing in the end, and he can never get the chance to rebuild his world. All those implications NEVER come up. And they treat the whole thing like it was the best possible outcome? Trunks should have finished Zamasu off with the evil containment wave, not the spirit bomb sword. The writers didn't need to raise the stakes so high that the villain literally becomes an untouchable omnipotent being that required an entire universe deletion to defeat either.

[@RoseRem]

@ I will say I feel like a better thing to do after erasing The timeline was have trunks stay in the past have them be a permanent reoccurring character like gohan that would’ve really shaken things up, especially in the tournament of power essentially being a god’s game with trunks doing that after everything that happened with Zamasu I feel like his point of view would’ve been really interesting to see during that event

[@boltskyline2957]

Oh no a timeline where all the important 2 characters are ded and has two children ive never met with a mustache yajirobe is about to be wiped out... so anyway.

[@Vintagesonic1]

Your videos are always so chill to listen to.

[@TrvisXXIII]

You encapsulated the early nostalgia for Z perfectly in the beginning of the video. Something super failed to replicate

[@InfiniteEscuro]

There was really no reason for Dragon Ball Super to not take place after the End of Z. GT picking up a few years later was a good shout, Super should really have just done the same.

[@justinarzola4584]

It's hard to believe the ten years between End of Buu and end of Z were a "a time of peace" when the earth and entire universe is in constant danger every month in Super.

[@InfiniteEscuro]

@@justinarzola4584 It also retroactively makes Uub ridiculously stronger. Instead of Goku with a max of SSJ3 being hit in his base form, only partly on-guard, and being momentarily knocked out by the full strength of Kid Buu -- which all makes sense -- Uub now has to be strong enough in his base form to knock out Mastered UI God Ki Goku who should be all rights by this point have UI active at all times. Super did a lot wrong, but a lot of what it did wrong could have been assuaged if it just came AFTER the established canon of Z instead of trying to fuck with it.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

Toriyama coulda possibly just wanted to keep that original ending of Goku leaving with Uub.

[@LilT2o00]

After we knew there were multiple sets of dragonballs, Z had no tension, either. No further death mattered because we know everyone can be wished back; unlike something like gurren lagan; where who saw episode 8 coming and knowing the results of those would be permanent for the entire story. and the show is called "Dragon ball" for a reason, so we always know there's gonna be some type of dragon ball available; in that perspective, DBZ never had permanent stakes; every character that dies, we know is coming back, etc.

[@luisfernan-s7731]

I 100% agree, weird and shocking enough when i thought about it. The arcs of Super where supposed to make us feel the dange factor. Liem the goku black arc, RoF, the tournament of power (that one did actually had some danger factor but people only saw the super dragon balls and deduced that it doesn't have it), mostly because there was something that or either fixed it, make jack no sense to even ignore it, or just some decisions that made the mood fell... Light...

[@jaysonmanman]

We need a new arc similar to the black star dragon arc in GT. Where all of the wishes used have a monkey paw effect, and create a powerful evil dragon based off said wish. The events should play out similar to GT with all characters fighting off theses dragons before fighting a combined ultimate dragon. The final dragon if defeated would mean that any and all dragonballs will be erased...I love DB and want to challenge its writers to focus more on character development for all characters and not use macguffins when situations get too difficult.

[@AdagioCJTV]

is the manga not an issue why it’s not the same excitement? most of us dragonball fans grew up watching dragonball as a SHOW. we didn’t read the manga as little kids

[@stephanos6128]

I did, i did both. and i can tell you even Super's manga is kind of whack comapred to Z and OGDB, for the same reasons he mentions the lack of any real stakes, now through in bad panelling and visual storytelling the mix (even Super's anime has this visual issue)

[@AdagioCJTV]

@ dang how old are you for u to be reading the manga when dbz was out?😂😂but I mean two things can be true, I can’t disagree with what you’re saying

[@stephanos6128]

@AdagioCJTV 27. The original dub aired ad reran in 97 and then the 86 dub aired in like 2002? The manga has been in the Us for a while by then and i read db86 when the funi86 dub was airring. It was at my local library. Good memories ngl

[@caesargold3695]

Ive never watched z with the idea that goku and friends would die forever. The question was always: "How do they win?"

[@Backhair_noob61]

W and also under rated, keep it up

[@livinghomunculus657]

I did feel there were stakes in the universe survival tournament, mostly over if universe 6 would be permanently gone. Obviously I knew somehow universe 7 would make it out and there was no concern over that.

[@AkeemReese]

The reason why dragon ball super has no steaks or tension is because it took some of that, western comic book formula. Where all the main characters/heroes are so overpowered hardly nothing ever threatens them. That’s why Goku and super is as serious and leads more into his free spirited goofball nature. Since he possesses the power of God’s and can rival them he doesn’t have to struggle as much as he did back in Z. In z Goku was kind of all on his own and trained in his own unique way, that suits him yes he also trained with Gods, but it usually took him a whole year to reach the next level of power. But now since Goku and Vegeta are training with a destroyer, God and a literal angel getting stronger reaching the next level of power is as easy as doing your homework. It only takes them a few hours or a few months to learn a new technique or attain a new form. Goku is in stupid in super he’s just embracing who he really is. He doesn’t have to worry about training the next generation and he doesn’t have to put himself through great pain going under intense physical training and breaking all his bones just to prepare himself for the next great threat.

[@adrian_veidt]

That's kinda ignorant regarding the western comics. That's not the case on Crisis on Infinite earths, Sinestro corps war, Our worlds at war, Infinite crisis and other major events FFS, Superman was broken mentally cause of how helpless he was to see all the deaths in the battle against Imperiex. First Aquaman, then Hippolyta, then Lois' father and then Steel. He was so desperate that he even begged his enemy luthor for help. The man almost abandoned his humanity just to gain the power to stop Imperiex and Brainiac. He suffered mentally to the point he wore a black crest on his chest as a sign of mourning. He attended a psychiatrist for months. Comic book writers also wrote these powerful heroes on situations where you can't just punch your way out. When Superman had to convince a suicidal lady that there's something more worth living in life, when Flash had to decide if it's worth changing the past to save his twins or Hal jordan keeping a fighting spirit despite the whole lantern corp having issues with him returning because of his sins during Zero hour So please, stop spreading your ignorance and actually read a goddamn comic book. Their writing are infinitely better and more mature than Toriyama's in his prime.

[@MajinUltraEgo]

The people who say "Dragon Ball Super has no stakes" are the same people who complain about Trunks legit getting his timeline erased 😂

[@AkeemReese]

@@adrian_veidt that’s because comic books are written by so many different writers. That they give each and everyone of these characters their own so contains storyline with completed story arcs. The heroes have to deal with complex issues and problems. They have to solve on their own without any help from the other heroes. Unless it’s a crossover issue, that’s why the heroes struggle so much. I have to go through all that emotional pain and depression. But Goku and his gang has already been through all that crap in Z and super just escalated the power to god tier levels. But even Goku admit, that he isn't strong enough to beat any antagonist or villain, all on his own that threatens him or the universe even with God powers, and his friends will always be there to help him out. Even when he doesn’t ask him to. Dragon Ball is structuredmore seralized with a narrative that unfolds across multiple episodes and a plot lines. But we car makes it all over the place in the stories don’t always make sense unless you read every issue that connects to one another leads up to one massive event. Like putting together a puzzle plus the Multiverse isn’t always a danger blowing up witch world lesson the stakes in DB. But the story of Dragon Ball mostly takes place in universe seven and each universe has his own destroyer, angel. And I would argue at Goku has a higher battle, IQ and super they ever did in Z. Like in the manga where he was the one to seal away Zamasu, but he used the wrong tag or in the torment of power where he used tricks and miss direction to try to eliminate Jiren. And how can you say Dbs has no stakes when trunks lost his entire timeline. It may have worked out well for Goku and his friends in a present. But now trunks is forced to live in a different timeline . With another trunks & mai. Yes Goku is pampered and spoiled rotten by the god but don’t blame the character blam Toriyama . God rest his soul for making him into a simplistic character. That gets straight to the point and easy to follow. That’s why we latch onto them even the gods haved warmed up to him. You really can’t say the same thing about Superman can you?🧐

[@augustopoliche8908]

Biggest problem it's got, it's a big member berry about Dragon Ball Z. Just look at the toyotaro avatar he draws of himself. It's a cheap copy of the one toriyama used. The man can draw like Toriyama but he is not a creator, he just copies. Dragon ball super is the Skywalker saga of dragon ball. It's a rehash of stuff we've seen. It's everything we've seen but stronger and bigger. Toriyama used references of pop culture, of Hollywood. Alien. Robocop. Predator. Rocky. Toei and toyotaro only use references of Dragon ball. Auto referential. Also the scope with the growth of power has gone out of rails. Toriyama stopped caring and created sand land. That one, instead of daima, it's the heir of the original dragon ball. A small scope town to town story.

[@alexanderforbes1452]

What bothers me is that the universe feels so hemmed in now that we know about all the gods, so the universe, all their most powerful fighters. There's little feeling of the next big threat, because we know all the threats and they're all within reach, and the ones that aren't never can be so it's just the same. There's no better way to cause people to lose interest than to leave no more surprises.

[@joseurbina3835]

4:19 I don't to mean to burst your Bubble, but the Unseen Timeline might as well be a Doomed Timeline anyway, even though it's the Place where Cell is from, but the Terrible Catastrophic Event like Majin Buu being Resurrected and may had already killed Everyone and destroyed the Earth just like how the Main Timeline went through, so the Earth or every Timeline in General for Universe 7 is always going to be Doomed no matter what, It's what a Shakespearean Writer once said: *"You cannot escape Fate that has already been Written."* Because the Majin Buu Saga is always gonna take place after the Android Saga.

[@mischake]

What broke Super is beerus beijg utterly unbeatable and goku being like "pretty please don't wipe out the earth" We get his god form because of an unborn baby and a cheeky ritual And when that's not enough he just shrugs and accepts their fate

[@sleepingdog1709]

I feel like if they kept the old rules about the dragonballs not being able to revive people twice it would have improved super.

[@thosetimes6625]

I miss the feeling of beckoning despair that DBZ provided which I did not feel much of while watching Super.

[@dragonslayerthegod9284]

Yeah, I also never really liked the Dragon balls being reduced to something bulma can just scoop up whenever she feels like it

[@MallyG-r4t]

Dragon Ball Super… ASS!

[@MajinUltraEgo]

That's why it's still successful regardless how you feel about it 😂

[@purpleey]

​@@MajinUltraEgo cocomelon is successful. its still ass just like dbs

[@thepeytondog]

Hot take: the only reason people value Z so much more than Super is nostalgia. If Super would have came out before Z, it would be praised more. Addressing the weight of the arcs first: In the ToP, for example, the stakes are as high as they can be. The entire universe will be wiped out if Goku doesn’t succeed. There would be no gods or dragon balls left to bring it back. The only reason it doesn’t feel as heavy is because there have been so many episodes of Dragon Ball that you already know Goku will succeed. No matter what Toei Animation does, it will be overshadowed by the knowledge that you know the story will go on. I never watched Z as a child. I went back and the animation is rough. It’s old, sure, but I much prefer the original Dragon Ball series. Theres more points but imo if Z never existed, Super would be on the same level if not better according to most people.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

Z has more of the better fights, stories, serious tone, and more violent.

[@androidsenpai1462]

Let’s analyze every arc from a standpoint that considers how they stack up to the original series. Both the anime and manga versions. All various redos of the last two Z movies aren’t relevant, because they really just serve to set up Birus, introduce the Super Saiyan God, and reintroduce the Pilafs. However, the Freeza revival storyline retroactively becoming setup for the Tournament of Power is the only thing that makes it worth a damn, because it’s a WORTHLESS storyline. The Universe 6 tournament is actually really good. It sets up a lot of potential for the future in showing us what one of the other universes is like, Cabbe is a pretty interesting character, Hit is really cool, and I just enjoy seeing Gokū and Vegeta wearing their Freeza revival outfits that Whis signed. It makes Super feel distinct and like it’s moving forward, especially with a story like this. It feels like a classical Dragon Ball tournament. The Gokū Black arc just sucks. It throws away all the potential the previous arc set up, fully returns Gokū and Vegeta to their caricatures in terms of aesthetic and behavior, brings back Future Trunks for no reasons other than that he’s a popular character and his world can serve as a battleground for a mindless 10 hour long fight with the villains, every bit of accentuating plot that isn’t related to the villains feels shallow and underwritten, and it wastes the best villain Super ever did by putting one of him in a Gokū body. Tullece wasn’t interesting because he was an “evil Gokū”; he was interesting because of how he paralleled him. Zamas having an “evil” Super Saiyan Blue as Gokū Black and spamming “evil” Kamehame-Has everywhere is just boring and lame to me. Oh, and not everything has to be some kind of revelation or twist. You don’t give Trunks such a thematically perfect ending only to just undo it and do something completely different to defeat the villain that has nothing to do with the previous way. Maybe Trunks actually getting to defeat Zamas with his Spirit Sword would’ve saved this arc for me. The Tournament of Power is alright. A lot of the choices are questionable, but the characters I’m not too keen on being there actually have great character moments, like Gohan vs. Obuni, and the Muten-Rōshi’s “greatest, most powerful Kamehame-Ha”, and Ultra Instinct is definitely cool enough to save the arc. However, the antagonists are mishandled, relegating Vermod to a sidelined role due to being a Hakaishin, Toppo - who was by far the most interesting - to second fiddle to the most boring one, and Jiren to having a boring, uninspired backstory that really just serves to have him be static in all the wrong ways. At best, he serves as fridge to fuel a genuinely good theme about the meaning of strength during his fight with Gokū, and he’s not so uninteresting to where he can’t be in the future. There’s also no real teamwork despite being a team battle, and combined with the lack of cutaways, this just makes this tournament feel like another mindless battle to save the world, which is against the spirit of what Dragon Ball tournaments are, even ones like Piccolo at the 23rd Budōkai. The Broli movie is good, and I’m glad his character got improved. That is all. The Moro arc has some good superficial lore additions with the Kaiōshin and the Yardratians, and Gokū exploring what it means to be a hero is always great to see with how everything flanderizes him. It’s very apparent that this was the first arc that Toriyama actually wrote instead of Toei. Plus, Ultra Instinct takes center focus here! However, Moro is bland as a slice of bread who’s only saved by his power set, and even that goes to shit when he just becomes Taskmaster-Cell at the end. Although, because of the theming, I will say that this is the only arc in Super that’s better at what it’s trying to rip off, because the Cell arc is pretty mediocre in my opinion. The Granola arc isn’t terrible. Finally, some actual meaningful new lore that fits with the original series, an interesting new premise, and a truly interesting original main character. However, the Saiyan arc knew how to cultivate a lot of “edge of your seat” tension, and that kept till the end. Black Freeza absolutely murders all tension when he shows up, and his new form isn’t even that cool. Not to mention that “True Ultra Instinct” and Ultra Ego are actual trash. Like, I don’t need to see Vegeta look and sound more embarrassingly edgy than he’s been known to be. The Super Hero arc and movie might be the most creatively bankrupt. The best I can describe it is as a diet can of ideas from the Red Ribbon and Cell arcs that doesn’t take advantage of any elements of the series it’s set in. The only thing the manga version gets in its corner is the mini story at the beginning centered around Goten and Trunks. I don’t want to see Piccolo dressing up like a stormtrooper and sneaking around a fucking base. That’s so boring it’s not even watchable, yet it’s surprisingly a major plot point. I guess him getting a new transformation is cool, but what buildup did it even have? I’m sure I don’t have to mention why Kaiju Cell and “Beastly Gohan” are just a blatant ripoff of the Cell fight. Like, it’s literally the exact same moment, down to the framing of the shots. As a whole, Super is reheated Z. I definitely get the people claiming it’s just a glorified toy commercial, especially since it’s primarily created by Toei and doesn’t even feel like a legit story sometimes. Dragon Ball does not fit being a Saturday morning cartoon in both placement and structure.

[@MII2o90]

In my opinion DB lost it's edge the moment they introduced Goku's family. So it's from the beginning. There was no reason for Gohan to be as strong as he is with no martial arts training. Goku had to walk on his hands for a year to gain part of that power. Z was an unessesary power spike after power spike and soon it lost it's meaning. Gaining power by perseversence and sacriface, not by lineage.

[@CrystalPantherMeanFangs]

It’s existence…. Thanks for watching guys.

[@YyhggYhg7gugugu]

For real

[@GETNLIT]

The stakes weren’t high because we knew that everyone survived because of the ending of Z…super most definitely has its issues but it’s not bad honestly it did a lot of right…Goku black arc & TOP was lit 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@moyassermohammed7516]

I wish super happened in a nother timeline like GT, if that happened i think the arcs would have felt more threatening because you don't know what happened in that timeline, plus if the animators had more time and budget super wouldn't be that hated

[@adrian_veidt]

I miss that feeling of hopelessness when Master roshi died against king piccolo. After goku already lost to same dude. Made me think how can goku beat the dude. Or how can goku beat Piccolo jr without killing Kami. Or that same dire feeling when Z fighters were getting zeroed one by one by saiyans. Krillin begging for goku to comeback. Nappa and vegeta were really intimidating asf back then. Then there's a huge stack against them in Namek. Cause Krillin, gohan and bulma had to deal with not just vegeta but frieza's gang too. I genuinely didn't know how Goku can beat Frieza at that time. I love payoff when goku finally beat king Piccolo, Piccolo Junior, when vegeta got finally put down and when goku achieved SSJ. I love the dark future and mystery that Future trunks foretold. I miss the brutality when Piccolo blew a hole on goku's chest and shoved his elbow on it. Or when Oozaru Vegeta crushed goku's body. Dragonball used to be more crude, violent and dark. Now it's a borderline children's cartoon and I hate how toned down it had gotten.

[@CuteRedPanda64]

To make it worse even a kids cartoon can sometimes have high stakes

[@dogma06]

I think you are missing the point. The lack of stakes is bound to progression of goku’s character. At the end of z, he manages to find the perfect balance between fighting strong opponents and risking the destruction of his planet. Besides super is full of stakes actually, beerus almost destroying earth, moro’s arrival. You know which arc is completly devoid of stakes? The cell saga which could be prevented immeadly by knocking on the gero’s doors. Your whole argument actually comes down to nostalgia, by logic „if you know the ending, the story has no stakes”. Does that imply you cant watch dbz on rewatch? That you can watch dbz ending after dbs and suddenly you have all the stakes back, because you dont know who will survive? Hell, cliffhangers in moro’s arc were amazing and i loved character progresion in granolah’s arc, where vegeta can come back to his roots without murdering random spectators.

[@MrPeter.420]

Damn i hate to admit it but your right

[@raydespoir]

3:40 - I find your argument here quite weak. By that logic, re-watching Z or even original Dragon Ball will also lose its sense of stake. Simply knowing the end of the journey isn't the real problem with Super. Personally, the themes are largely the same as Z, but what's changed is the narrative structure, art style+animation, and execution of the story. I'd say Super failed all three. In terms of narrative structure, I really think they should've never gone with tournament of power or messed with time travel. One is lazily put together and the other is confusing and makes no sense. Art style speaks for itself. It's more of a personal thing I suppose, but way more cartoony than Z and even DB at times. It also had bad animation. Z had bad animation too, but it's lowest lows are comparable to the average quality of Super animation. Lastly is execution. This is the most time-consuming one to talk about, but I'll just say there are plenty of videos out there that analyze this aspect.

[@joseurbina3835]

To be Blunt, I want DBS to just Advance the Timeline Forward at Post-EOZ Era, I just feel that the Middle Gap between the Buu and EOZ Arcs has enough filling, almost like it's the Clone Wars Era that mostly filled the Gap between SW EP2: AOTC and SW EP3: ROTS, But unlike "Star Wars" Axed Extended Lore" (Legends Canon) due to the Sequel Trilogy, "Dragon Ball's" Extended Lore still remains Intact while Super began (only from Post-EOZ Era because GT never Happened).

[@peterattilaradivojevics5645]

And thats not even all the problems. Not even the characters treat situations as they should be. Remember when Beerus was about to destroy Earth? How come noone thought about speaking up. "Lord Berrus, wait! Please! We have one more to chalange you!" "I've already bested Vegita.Im not interested in fighting him again." "No! Not Vegita, but someone whos far, far stronger than either Goku or Vegita. They just need one day to get ready to fight you. Thats all we ask for, just one day!" "One day, you say?" "Yes! Besides youre intrested in our planets cusine arent you? Surely you could let yourself to enjoy it for a single day, right?" "Hmph, very well. I'll play your game. You get one day and no more to get this mysterious chalnger ready to fight me. After that, all of you will die." "Great! Thank you! Gohan! Get god-ified and rush in to the time chamber now!" But besides that if they think thats over doing it or anything (wich it isnt). They could have made us care and worry about whats happening by just intruducing new characters who we havent seen during the end of z. You know, what daima does. Will Pantzy surivive the show? Dont know. Will there still be a demon realm by the end of the show? Dont know either. They didnt even had to try too hard to do so. The ToP was legit the best opportunuty to turn the z fighters from hearoes to villians by surcuimstance (no idea how you write this word) and they fumbeled. Imagine Vegita giving a speach of sayian pride to Cabba and the girls when theyre universe is about to be earased. To hold theyre chin up knowing that it took the best of all universes to take them down. Imagine Beerus giving a pudding to Champa as a final meal and Champa giving him instant noodles in exchange. Imagine Jiren stating that fighting Goku was the first time in hes life when he actualy find some enjoyment in it. Imagine all the things they could have done. Imagine all the things we could have cared about.

[@chrisvictory3165]

Not a fan of the fact that goku got ui sign and then fkn masters it just to have to learn it again in the moro ark..wth man 🙄

[@TheGodlyGamerMugen]

Biggest problem with super is it diesnt put any respect on saiyans sooner Saiyan ain’t even important anymore it’s all ui and god ki ue and blue hair basically it’s a cash grab show like boruto

[@cer1996]

This series is not only about the saiyans, saiyan glazer

[@PrimalIncentive]

Boruto is rent free

[@rival2028]

Other than Future Bulma, nobody of significance actually dies in the show. But outside of that the story writing is aweful. The arcs dont link with each other unlike Z.

[@rosariolake1810]

Dragon Ball super has no Stakes_ power creap/escalation lazy character designs and is full of redcon poisons that drag z down low

[@MajinUltraEgo]

The people who say "Dragon Ball Super has no stakes" are the same people who complain about Trunks legit getting his timeline erased 😂

[@MajinUltraEgo]

Power creep was in your precious DBZ, "lazy" character designs is a subjective opinion that makes no sense.

[@MysteryBounty]

I agree in large part. I liked having more Dragon Ball but Super has so much bullshit. Like the time rewind against Frieza, the Zeno button....shit like that ruined the series like Trunks literally lost his whole universe and Vegeta can't get a fucking dub against Frieza?! Why not?!

[@mickeyspeer5670]

To me, the scale of the story just got way to big all the way back in Z. I do love all the way up to frieza arc and cell was ok. But it just added too much power scaling and too many characters. Old beloved characters became irrelevant for new and with whatever god like power we would see, another even more god like power would just pop up after. I do think the whole series in general was good at making fun characters. But they seem to drop off way to quickly in relevance for new ones and it makes wanting to like characters seem pointless. This is getting to long to voice all my issues haha but much slower power scaling and less character introductions definitely are big ones to me

[@gus9797]

I think the nice thing about super is what happens to Beerus, Whis, Merus, and even all the other universes (if they dont fumble it) I hope the black frieza saga brings back the stakes because frieza did have his eyes set on overthrowing Zeno/Beerus

[@zionoas2]

Unfortunately the I feel like it was just your immaturity compared to your level of knowledge now. And that the longer the series go on and you had the knowledge that Toriyama has killed everyone and that isn't his lane, it isn't going to return to that. Freiza is an anti hero now bc he understands that his universe is just an island in a sea of a multiverse. Super and Daima is just really about good story telling, and fixing your neglected characters, ( Future Trunks, Gohan, 17, Pic etc)

[@HazeKasaki]

It feels like the violence has been toned down drastically. Remember the brutal ass whoopings that used to happen during Z. For example, Videl vs Spopovich, Vegeta vs 18, Frieza vs Vegeta, Future Gohan vs 18 and 17, the Ginyu force vs Gohan, Vegeta and Krillin etc. Those had a serious atmosphere and highlighted how much danger everyone was in. Modern Dragonball feels like it's PG.

[@c5slurwhenhetalk]

Is it just me, or I never in my 19 years knew Super was before end Z 😭😭😭😭

[@mrmampmamp]

Goku getting turned into a brainless moron hurt the story, too.

[@richardhovsepyan493]

Tune, when you gonna talk about Daima?

[@Maho3942]

It exists to sell toys.

[@MajinUltraEgo]

That's GT, and it failed.

[@purpleey]

​@@MajinUltraEgo its literally dbs as well

[@apexartist9618]

I never once thought the earth was ever really in danger. Not one villain other than Majin buu actually killed earth.

[@Brain_quench]

What software do you use to scroll up on each still image?

[@PixelPenGamer]

For me, it was Beerus and Whis existing. You cannot possibly have tension in a story if an omnipotent deity is sitting right behind you, treating EVERYTHING as training. Oh no, Frieza is changing colors again. Big whoop, we have a literal angel on our side.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

Honestly, the prequel problem could be worked around by providing other characters or elements to be invested in, so I don't think its the sole reason for the lack of tension, setting Super after the ten year time skip wouldn't change anything unless tgey were willing to commit to the character's failures having consequences

[@NewGuy00]

I feel like the lack of death being threatening is Z’s fault during the first watch I think these points are valid but with how popular dragon ball is death is never threatening even in z because of the dragon balls

[@theoldiesstudio2551]

If you don’t like GT, wait until you watch DBS.

[@kaioken654]

The aesthetic was the biggest problem with super for me

[@MaRgEd.ZamaSU]

zamasu arc was great but they could extend the episode even more. like vegeta train future trunks, gohan and piccolo train future trunks, and then Goku train future trunks. but end of results they could showed us in that episode super saiyan rage form. marged Zamasu vs U.I Goku fight was important. and they could hide that transformation information till jiren fight. time ring more usage and screenplay in combat in marged Zamasu vs U.I sign Goku. and marged zamasu throw him in different timeline so goku have to go and take help from supreme kai to go to gowasu. and the timeline is where cell killed future trunks to take the time machine. vegito fight could do more than it should. final kill is okay because it is future trunks timeline. and about infinite zamasu. it should remain as it is. in ending a flash back that u.i sign goku talking to gowasu where cell ran away from that timeline. a proper fix. (cell didn't just absorbed future trunks but also absorbed mai. so future trunks and mai still inside cells body in present timeline hell.) correction to the zamasu arc.

[@TCD123abc]

They used the dragon ball as a reset button/wipe/clear and solution as well as a way to neutralize threats during z as well for example the time where kid buu killed and destroyed everything that was reversed and the time piccolo used the humans as a distraction for super buu saying they have the dragon balls that's why he did it they also used the dragon ball to bring goku back to full to finish off kid buu so with that super wasn't the only one who had a back foot for everything

[@Xenophanes89]

They have created a series for all ages and even children ( Dragon Ball Super ) So this anime also appears on children's channels on TV anyway the series is not that bad, (if you have a Dragon Ball Super manga it says that it is for all ages)

[@DYhalto250]

The biggest problem with super is its on hiatus

[@Commander6727]

To me both shows may have their issues and problems but I do agree and it's something I've said before when I talk about Super there is no tension nor is there any reason to be on the edge of my seat like we had in Z or even times in OG DB I just remember wondering did the traning with King Kai really give Goku a chance against the Sayains, how could anyone stand up to Frieza if he made everyone drop a load in there pants with just his presence, how could anyone take down the Ginyus, could what Goku said about Gohan being stronger than anyone realizes really make him a match for Cell, is Piccolo truly willing to sacrifice everyone on Earth for Goten and Trunks to train a bit longer and get strobger. In Super it's like Ohhh no the Earth is about to be blown up up LOL JK dude "fell" asleep, Ohh no Frieza has a new form and can take on some new God form LOL it's like SSJ3. Super had potential but to me just fell short on the tension hell even GT felt like it had more tension than Super did.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

GT definitely had more tension. Everytime they used the dragonballs something negative happened.

[@Espurr.8]

When it comes to super my biggest problem is the same one I had with gt some of the arc were boring

[@y345vash9]

I tried, but I couldn't get into Super. I think I finished the Goku Black arc before I stopped watching. I did like the Goku Black arc, heck it was probably my favorite arc because the others before were underwhelming imo, but I wasn't interested in continuing. It was just so disappointing 😒

[@noahjerry8266]

We been watching the show for years so we know how it will end but the new generation dosnt have that experience so the fear factor is still there for them

[@brianlaureus]

I actually agree with this a lot don’t get it twisted super was still a really great series but it lacked a lot of. Especially in the story telling department , I think that’s where it was lacking the most the emotional impact . And it’s why I never liked that this takes place before the end of Z. It limits a lot in terms of story tell and where the story can GO I know a lot of people hate GT but there was a lot of good ideas for GT it’s just the execution that was poor. We could way more development in terms of characters and even villains there could’ve been more stakes because we don’t know what’s gonna happen already the power ceiling for are characters could be as high as you want and still be believable. More than anything I hope that super borrows some ideas from GT like Damia did . Like the misuse of the dragon balls causing evil shadow dragons is actually a plot line that super needs desperately it give the chance for some actually intimidating version of the shadow dragons but I’d like them to tie more of an emotional connection to each dragon ball sort how they did with nova and the 4 star ball.

[@UnifiedEntity]

Whenever this bumass series manga comes back, if they have Vegeta beat Black Frieza and he DOESNT kill him? I don't want anyone saying shit.