The Blackwater Aquarium Mystery... Help If You Can!

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[@AQUAPROS]

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[@michealshelton2133]

Carbon! Take the carbon out of your filter.

[@michealshelton2133]

I intentionally use extra carbon in my filters to keep the tanens out

[@michealshelton2133]

Beautiful tank btw. Some floating plants will also add shade

[@pixpockit]

I used about a 4rth the manzanita you have (unseasoned) in a 20 gallon Nuvo Fusion. Water became VERY dark, even after several w/c's. Took about 5 - 6 months to clear to a desired level. Substrate is black lava, no carbon, simple system using only bio ceramics and floss. Tank was establish 1 1/2 ago, planted, and use oak leaves for tannins, no co2, 1 tiny Betta Mahachai and a few snails. Recently dosed with Flourish Excel to boost plant growth and the next day no trace of tannins whatsoever.

[@atkinsnatureaquariums3552]

If you have a fine polishing pad in the filter that can trap tannins in my experience, removing the fine media has helped me in the past, I don't run carbon unless I need to remove medications.

[@FatherFish]

We have been working on this for about 2 years. Currently there are several hundred hobbyists with dirted deep substrates as members of our group who have adopted humic material as a food base. This provides a rich microfauna culture for small fish.

[@bluebowser3121]

I've had small animals such as daphnia in my tank before and they eat tannins too. Maybe a micro-organism fed on them.

[@Brandon-dd6ri]

In my experience it's due to having a high cec substrate. If I want clear water with lots of wood or almond leaves I'll use an under gravel filter. Without it, the tannins will be absorbed slower. When I used an inert substrate, tannins wouldn't come out unless I did water changes or added carbon. Hope this helps

[@sharirhariparsad5777]

Yeah, i think because he has some aquasoil in there

[@pattykake7195]

That is such a pretty betta….love his aquarium, so much nicer than the tiny containers some keep them in…👌🏽

[@Evil_Genius_888]

Having aquariums creates a whole new dimension in moving. I stressed out when I had to change out an aquarium stand for a 40g breeder. lol I can’t imagine trying to break down, move and redo a 6 foot one.

[@michealshelton2133]

Imagine being a loner and not having friends.... Breaking the ice with neighbors to move a tank😬

[@imranpatel4612]

Literally never come across this happening without water changes. Really fascinating to see that the tanins naturally cleared within a short period

[@nuimaleko7]

I grew up in rural New Jessy and there is a type of water called cedar water in certain streams that is the color of Iced tea. It stains your clothes when you swim in it.

[@UkiahTheTurtle]

Wow the tank is looking very nice

[@sui-generis]

Maybe the substrate has a high cation exchange capacity and is absorbing the tannins? Just a guess as no idea if cec substrates can absorb anything more than ferts. Just watched the end of vid and you state it is really hot in the room. High temps can reduce length of tannins within an aquarium too. *edit* Just saw one of Scott Fellman's posts regarding tannins and he said that substrates can remove tannins which is why he uses silica sand or other non-ph affecting substrates in blackwater setups, so I guess my theory could be correct.

[@garysfishrooms]

I agree with you that it's more than likely cation exchange with the substrate from my personal experience unless there is a hidden factor I'm unaware of. I have full blackwater tanks and tanks with various pieces of wood, Indian almond leaves and alder cones in my various tanks in my fishroom. What I experience is all my tanks that are bare bottom or have only sand substrate with wood and leaves have heavy tannin stained water, where as all my tanks with wood and leaves and a high cec substrate have minimal to no visible tannins. These are tanks that have the same schedule of evaporation topups and monthly / bi-monthly w/c. and putting in more leaves when those inside are 1/2 way decomposed Also all tanks use either sponge filters or oase biofilters (no purigen / activated carbon), fluval pro fresh & plant 2.0 at 90% strength and no heaters as heat the room. If you replace the substrate with just sand it would more than likely hold the tannins for longer.

[@Les-OZZYTHEOSCAR]

Great, look forward to seeing more from you !

[@AQUAPROS]

Thank you!

[@brandonmckenzie8445]

Alder cones are a great way to boost tannins as well

[@b1oh1]

I think it's four fold. 1. Boiling tannins reduces the overall amount in the water column after the fact. 2. The light is bleaching the tannins. 3. A softer wood or wood that's exhausted of tannins will have an absorbing effect like a sponge. 4. The tannins are being filtered and evaporated. IMHO, stop filtering the water with a hob and move to a sponge or just a circulator.

[@AndrewHeisey]

Seen a couple videos where people make rooibos tea and pour it in. Not sure how that affects everything, but seemed a simple way to add color back in after water changes.

[@steveclark1287]

Look into Rooibos tea bags. You can put 1 in the filter and it will do it's thing. I've used them in my Bettas tank and they it looks pretty cool. It's more of a reddish ting rather than brown, but still looks awesome.

[@gbj6581]

loving the new logo!

[@dylandean7364]

try a sponge filter will also add tiny current to keep tannins stirred up

[@majorbruster5916]

As someone who has long experience of working with blackwater aquaria, and from my years as a laboratory technician doing research on fishes, and looking into the chemistry of natural waters, I think that I can draw some inferences from your situation. Firstly, tannins are denatured by boiling, so boiling the wood and leaves was not the thing to do. Dipping the items in boiling water would have been better, as this would have damaged cellular surfaces to allow their contents to escape. Secondly, tannins are photo labile and break down under strong light (this doesn't happen in nature because the light is absorbed in the upper layers of blackwaters, and the biogenesis of tannins and fulvins is so fast that it has no effect). Tannins are not reabsorbed into either wood or leaves, this is a self-defeating argument given that they have been released from cells which are breaking down. Mopani wood contains very little tannin and fulvin. Bogwood would have been a better choice. Substrates that are not biologically active have no affinity for tannins. Tannic acid is a polarised molecule with an overall slight acidity. However, it is too large to be exchanged via the CEC within a substrate, and it would be difficult to demonstrate which ions it displaced from the substrate. Yeasts and fungi degrade tannins and some of the visible 'fuzziness' on the wood and leaves would have been responsible for some of the degradation of the tannins into breakdown products which would have been colorless. Tannins are naturally bacteriostatic so are not degraded by these organisms, but there are rare instances in nature where this does happen but only in special habitats, and the rate of the breakdown is extremely slow. Katappa leaves, oak leaves and others break down in time and need to be periodically replaced. Mine last for about five weeks before they skeletonise. So there needs to be a regular turnover of these. As some observers have commented, introducing rooibos tea leaves in the system has a good effect, so this might be a good option. Peat moss also works but is of variable quality and efficacy, some peats are neutral to alkaline, such as sedge peat, and are of little use in aquaria. Test any peat for acidity before using it. Keep a close eye on your pH to pre-empt any crashes. Happens to the best of us. I have used the terms tannins and tannic acid interchangeably for simplicity. However, when discussing "tannins" a lot of aquarists conflate these with tannic acid, which is not the case. The brown substances released from wood and leaves comprise a number of organic molecules, tannins, tannic acid, fulvins, fulvic acid, gallic acid, humins, humates and humic acid to name the best-known of these. Each has different chemical properties and interactions with their environment, and depending on which material is used, and which of these substances predominate, there will be a variation between different experiences.

[@AQUAPROS]

Thanks for that super detailed answer! 🫡 learned a lot from that!

[@Qihte]

You’re hob one hundred percent has some sort of carbon or something in it, which is removing the tannins.

[@brandonmckenzie8445]

Your light theory is worth looking further into i use low light t8s on mine and i found that made it look much darker

[@Ishiisan]

get a reusable teabag and fill it up with organic Rooibos tea. put that bag in the HOB and it'll produce good amount of tannin

[@Maerchenlaenderin]

my tannins were cleared up by the filter floss I used for fine filtration in my filter for whatever reason. once I took that out, it stayed in. Do you maybe use that?

[@Lee-re1by]

Put some redbush tea bags in, works perfectly.

[@Maxfraser_]

they might gave been evaporating and but try indian almond leaves, it also is probs from carbon and fine filter media

[@XCaliKev]

👍😎 Your the scientist Mike, you’ll figure it out. I remember Rachel used a specific kind of tea for the dark water look.

[@dennisvanopstal7360]

Rooibos tea

[@DylanRenke]

I think it's definitely worth taking a closer look at your filter. Fine filter floss can remove some tannins. I've never heard of the light degrading tannins, but it has me intrigued. It's also worth noting that the pH will only be significantly affected by the tannic acid if there is little to no buffer in the aquarium; the aquasoil in this tank would likely prevent the pH getting much lower than 6.0.

[@DylanRenke]

One more thing: Tannin Aquatics and Betta Botanicals are great resources to learn about Blackwater and botanical method aquariums.

[@michealshelton2133]

If you want the tanens you can not use carbon in your filter. I intentionally use carbon to keep my water clear of them.

[@Myndi78]

My next project will be a blackwater tank, I really like the "no plants" like you have, but I would probably stick *some* plants on the wood right at the waterline and add some floaters. Like moss or hydrocotyle tripartita that will grow out of the water maybe even slap a pothos in the corner and let the roots grow wild inthere 🤔

[@airsoftgi]

what happened to the angels?

[@arsimahmetaj6272]

Loving it 👍

[@aessniper]

May be the substrate is catching it, I have an aquarium with inert substrate ando only ONE piece of wood 3 years and it still is leaking tanins

[@prestonlandolt]

Perhaps the tannins aren’t fully suspended in the water. Don’t know too much though.

[@shaunag5498]

Taylor from Simply Betta had this problem. She mentioned it in a video, I don’t remember which one though

[@trich261]

organic potting mix I did that and have a lot of tannins

[@PrincessTS01]

i miss seeing the pond videos

[@dusk1947]

Lights' interaction may degrade the compounds structure. However, I'd be more interested in your oxidation potential. Monitoring your ORP might lend some insight into the most likely candidate on what may be diminishing your tannins, as I'd personally suspect an oxidation or reduction reaction being more likely than a light-dependent reaction. That's a guess though. Biological activity is also a possible candidate as you're already aware. But I'd also place that as a lower potential outcome than the first two reasons. And the final possible reason I can think of is that it's interacting with your CEC of the relatively new aqua-soil. As it's possible some of your tannins are being bound to various compounds in the aqua soil. Again though, I'd place that as a much more remote possibility than it being oxidized or a light interaction. Sorry, no firm answers here. But some possible areas of investigation?

[@prodbyhydrax]

I found that filter floss removes tannins faster than if your filter doesn’t have it. Though this problem can be solved if you add more botanicals/additives more frequently, unfortunately that also means using more $$$. Hope this helps!

[@daltonwagman9814]

Rooibos tea - make sure its pure with no added flavors. You can steep and pour or even steep the bag directly into the fish tank. Rachel O'Leary has some videos detailing it.

[@resto776]

Liquid Amazon from CaribSea is my go-to.

[@reyamoyen5650]

😀 i tried that black water setup on my planted betta sorority tank...but after 2days its almost clear the tannins....i think its bcoz of the filter....try to turn off ur filter and see the result 👍👍

[@el_don_flores]

Finally 💪 a new video

[@khentv2724]

use ketapa leaves and put it directly to the tank

[@najeenasser6462]

I think all that was producing Tannins was the leaf litter, the drift wood was already used, I'm guessing they didn't have much to release, indian almond leaves work great not boiled, and the tannins last much longer

[@vampgaia]

Moving is so stressful! Hang in there. You will survive it.

[@AQUAPROS]

Thanks Ginger!!!!

[@motownkid7382]

Is it's your light source? Harsh light is not found like that in the Amazon

[@johnmaude5065]

I boil alder cones, and add the cones and the water, after it’s cooled down of course, the tannins last for ages, also add Indian almond leaves

[@MADMUSICENT.]

can i make my tank to become blackwater while my fish are there?

[@sharirhariparsad5777]

Just add some rooibos tea, all natural tannins plus it is tasty and smells great😉😂😂hello from south africa

[@darlenebecherer3658]

Charcoal will remove tannens

[@jdpartridge]

What is your pH? There are a lot of things that will precipitate out above pH of 7. Maybe the tannins disappear faster in high pH

[@jarrenherbert8852]

Digging the beard Mike.

[@AQUAPROS]

😎

[@bubasmollett8610]

Full disclosure, I've never owned a black water aquarium. I once saw a video where someone saved the water they soaked or boiled there leaves, cones, etc, saved the water abs added it to the tank to make it darker. Save that water, maybe reduce it, and add as needed.

[@adzjohn]

put a tea bag in there.

[@brandonmckenzie8445]

If youre running carbon you could remove it or half the portion. I personally dont run carbon in my black water tank for that reason.

[@Jim1971a]

It’s probably the activated carbon/charcoal

[@XaViEr3520]

Tanins on the wood?

[@kw770]

Add a tea bag or two

[@DeanoSupremo1]

The tinge!

[@justinfinnis567]

Carbon in filter bro

[@andycarter4581]

Is there carbon in your filter? That would clear the water...

[@AQUAPROS]

No carbon! 🤯

[@SkepyourOwn]

Try Rooibos tea. it’s really effective, Rachel O’Leary explains it well but it’s pretty straight forward

[@AquariumPlantLab]

The chillies 😎

[@Ziggy1107]

Don’t use moss

[@Ziggy1107]

Dude you might have to add a bunch of colors to your fish tank or use mud

[@paulfeeney1221]

Take the carbon out of the filter

[@realfishscience7842]

Any carbon put in yoinked all of those, or you boiled tf out of those and there’s none LOL

[@fervidsphinx4813]

Just use robouis tea bags, idk if that’s how you spell it

[@fartrellcluggins]

Add black background

[@cyberking7443]

Bro,just buy azoo Triple Black Water.use it every week.everything will be fine again.

[@AQUAPROS]

Bless up! 🙏🙏🙏

[@herpsandcompany9338]

You can always add rooibos tea like @serpadesign does for his blackwater tank