The BMPCC6K Pro/4k feature even the pros got wrong at first [Gerald Undone/Josh Yeo]

[@IndioA]

comes from the fact that no one is willing to read the manual anymore and you make them aware of it you will still be scolded

[@FrameVoyager]

Haha pretty much!

[@Malick333]

Had a P4K for two years now. Two things. What’s interesting looking back at my original projects how varied the image quality was (amazing to meh) and frankly it’s mostly due to me not understanding the camera’s nuances. Some footage looked like total crap, while other footage looked like killer Arri/Red. Also, I’ve also learned that no matter what camera you have, if the lighting is bland/boring nothing will change that. If you shoot boring scenes with the best technology, it will still be boring. Seems obvious I know but most “reviewers” are always showing boring scenes when they are testing them out. That’s why I go to Vimeo to see the final product of what a camera can do in the context of a compelling story.

[@Malick333]

Oh and thx for the video about the video! 😘I like your vibe.

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it! And you're so right about lighting, it really is everything

[@Andresvideo]

Test thoroughly and get to know your camera inside out, specially it's strengths and weaknesses. That's the only secret!

[@FrameVoyager]

Yep! It's not some secret knowledge held by professionals

[@Supercon57]

Was a big learning moment for me when I started working with canon C series cameras with "base" ISOs and middle grey Learning that shooting outside in the sun with ISO 3200 could yield better results by allocating more dynamic range to the highlights or vice versa shooting at ISO 100 in the dark to allocate more dynamic range into the shadows Totally changed my understanding of cameras and ISO Then I would go on to shoot with other long time "professionals" would would pick up the camera and crank the ISO up to 6400 and call the camera trash when there was noise Just showed that they didn't take the time to learn the tool Never stop learning, there is always more to learn

[@ForYouFromTemp]

I did months of research before I bought my 6K pro so I already knew how to approach the dual native ISO but it’s still a learning process. Knowing your camera is definitely the most important skill for any filmmaker or videographer.

[@FrameVoyager]

Absolutely! I would go back and kick myself if I could haha

[@bradbell4022]

It is still very unclear how they screwed up raw. Or why they are talking about dynamic range charts with raw. They are over complicating and over controlling. It's very simple: native ISO is 400. Always shoot at 400. (Changing ISO pointlessly varies in-camera gain. Never do it. Ever.) Second native ISO is 3200. For indoors. Use variable ND for exposure. That's it. Part of the appeal of raw is it makes shooting so simple! You don't have to worry about ISO or colour temperature (I use 4500k) or dynamic range charts or noise. You just need to avoid zebras. SO REALLY, it's ONE setting: indoor/outdoor :-)

[@phils7108]

exactly. I'm an amateur and understood the 400/3200 ISO thing right from the start. A year later I understood colour management in Resolve, and the workflow has become even faster. It is indeed very simple and comfortable. All footage I got is technically good. I know when something is clipping (a lamp, the sun) before I hit the record button, and expose only with iris and ND's.

[@jmalmsten]

The only way to learn is to seek out opportunities to fail safely. It is basically the same in all fields. Very few of the masters were born with their skills. They just failed until they figured out how to succeed in their craft. And the sooner one accepts that failure is part of learning. The free-er it is on the mind. So it is best to fail a lot before a big job to minimize risk of failure when everyone's looking. :)

[@FrameVoyager]

💯💯💯

[@jonasschloegl]

I absolutely can relate to this, i just bought a Blackmagic 6k Pro and the first shoots were awful. I made nearly the same mistakes as mentioned. But i think this Video helped me a lot! Thanks!

[@jonasschloegl]

And i thout i knew, it is not about the gear but your knowledge...

[@FrameVoyager]

Yep! Testing, learning, and making mistakes is all part of the process and even those who have been filming for years still go through this. If you're interested in a more in depth look at it too check out our video we just made on Dual Native ISO here where I talk about the best settings --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/boWpXqajpLWDi7M

[@freejay3]

When i got my bmpcc4k on pre order, first thing i knew was to keep the ISO at 400 or 3200 to get the full range of DR.

[@FrameVoyager]

So you took the smart approach! It was a great lesson for me getting this camera to actually open up the manual

[@freejay3]

@@FrameVoyager lol Just watched vids about it before i got it. I never read the manual

[@testowykana1763]

During day, I always shoot at ISO 1000 using ETTR to retain as much highlights detail as possible while minimizing the amount of noise. Need to learn more about which ISO to shoot at in low light scenarios. Any tips?

[@FrameVoyager]

I usually bounce between like 1250 and 3200 iso. I like 3200 iso in most situations but a lot of people have had success at 1250

[@sobadaham]

Watch the clipping indicators... Reduce ISO until not clipped... Reduce iris if its not enough... Use an ND filter if you don't like closing iris...

[@FrameVoyager]

I would be more of a Reduce iris, use an ND filter and then touch the ISO kind of person but yeah, always need to understand what it's doing in the backend

[@FrameVoyager]

haha oh I have a video on it already where I talk about it. But I'm sure the would school me in their knowledge of cameras and gear!

[@Indieblackmagic]

Each Black Magic camera has a learning curve and it’s an incredible tool once you put hundreds of hours into learning and experimentation. The 6K pro and Ursa Mini Pro series absolutely “fixed” most bright overexposed issues when there is only natural light with there wonderful ND Filters. 6 stops with the camera at 100 iso should get you fantastic footage in 90% of situations and I’ve only ever gotten perfect exposure on sunny days doing this (100 - 800 iso). ND filters more important than I could ever imagine haha

[@FrameVoyager]

It really does! It's all about testing your camera and not letting it just sit on a shelf. Push the limits of it and see what's possible!

[@vividmotion66]

Nailed it mate. Apart from your masterclass video do you offer any specific course or videos on how to dial settings etc in the field?

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it! I do have a bunch of other videos you can find called Dual Native ISO in the 6k pro and False Color videos where I explain a lot about it. I def. need to do some kind of paid course at some point too!

[@vividmotion66]

@@FrameVoyager sure go for it - i am in 😉

[@TheFilmGuyOfficial]

When I shoot braw I always I avoid 1250 & 6400 isos like a disease. I always want the ability to lower the iso or raise it in post.

[@FrameVoyager]

But the base ISO of 400 gives you plenty of room on either side so why not shoot there? It also gives you the most balanced DR unless you're in a very specific lighting condition where moving into 1250 or 3200 makes more sense

[@TheFilmGuyOfficial]

@@FrameVoyager sorry I miss wrote that. I think Josh's ISO montage got the words stuck in my head haha. I fixed what I ment.

[@TheFilmGuyOfficial]

@@FrameVoyager I also try to keep in mind that you get slightly more highlight information at 3200 and more shadow info at 400.

[@FrameVoyager]

😂😂I figured because that made no sense haha! It does get confusing saying ISO after a while doesn't it?

[@AlexButler10]

Have just got back from a shoot thinking il use the pocket 4k and completely overdo the quality for a clients Facebook advert. Also shot at 100 iso in bring sunlight…. Highlights looked like crap, wondered why… ffs, cheers man, explains a lot

[@Seriouslycantplayguitar]

I shoot freelance and always bring my gear even when people tell me they have gear for me. I would rather shoot with my stuff then chance shooting with a new camera and messing something up if I'm being paid. I ALWAYS bring my own audio gear for this reason, even if I'm shooting with rented/borrowed cameras.

[@newyorkartistandphilosophy8091]

Great video. I have 4k and 6k pro. Coming dvcam, vhs and working at NYC lighting rentals house, back in the day, I have had and heard so many stories of misused equipment. One thing I have learning about location shooting is get there early as you can and make time for not just setup, but shooting test footage and have some sort external monitor. I know some who always have backup camera too. This ofcourse is often not practical in run and gun, one man band situations. The thing I have had to really to really driil into my head is that blackmagic cameras are not for point and shoot work. They are cinema camera who get back at you for not respecting their needs. Thanks again, the topic I was thinking about laterly.

[@kunsunrethy]

I just got the camera for less than a month, and boy I was so wrong lmao I was shooting 12:1 BRAW for a client and I shot it at 1000 iso thinking that I can still change it later in post 😂🤌🏻 just to know that I can't really go above that and I didn't realize how bad 12:1 was in my case that I have to push and pull a lot just to make it proper 😂😭 but I never regret going from af to mf. Not once! I felt like I am in control of what I wanna see and that felt so good!

[@FrameVoyager]

haha! I feel like most of us did this exact same thing! It happens to all of us but really goes to show how testing out a camera and studying it is beneficial! But yeah, I love MF too!

[@fabiocoelho924]

waaaaiiiit a minuuuteeee ! i wanna see a full video review of that bmpcc 4k gear you're using ! that seems really REALLY interesting.

[@FrameVoyager]

Already have my rig setup video here --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWazmYVuaLt7aMk But if you mean those sweet filters on the lens, that video is coming out Monday. May or may not be a new product that releasing here on Monday ;)

[@fabiocoelho924]

@@FrameVoyager thanks, i looked for it but i could not find it. sweet.

[@saviwaves5337]

i got it wrong because i was new to the Black Magic system coming from a Canon 70D with no log profile.

[@FrameVoyager]

It's all a learning process! That's the fun part of owning a camera

[@morgan-films]

Test test test. Shoot edit observe iterate your process. Spot on advice.

[@FrameVoyager]

Yep! You could be the best at composition of shots but if you don't know how the camera works it doesn't matter. You expand what you can do creatively by knowing the limits of your camera and where you can push it.

[@morgan-films]

@@FrameVoyager Talking of pushing the camera... The one thing holding me back in testing the 6K Pro out to it's fullest is I'm still a bit nervous to take it out in wet / harsh weather conditions. I come from the gh5 and gh5s and I'm used to weather sealed tough systems. What do you do for the 6K Pro in those situations?

[@FrameVoyager]

So I would say I'm a bit cavalier with my gear haha. I've taken the 6K Pro, the URSA G2, and the p4k cameras out into some insane environments. Filmed below zero degrees fahrenheit with them in the northernmost town in Alaska, filmed with them on the coast of Seattle in the rain without a cover. So I tend to be slightly crazy with them, but I do use like cheap camera covers if it's raining hard. You can buy plastic covers for the cameras on amazon fairly cheap. I think it's more about keeping any areas that water could enter into your camera from being overly exposed and allowing time afterwards for the camera to dry out so you don't have a mold issue. But honestly, have yet to have a weather related issue with pocket cameras

[@Andresvideo]

@@morgan-films I took my P4K into a cave and it came out really dirty but working perfectly, not an issue with it. You always have to be careful, specially at the beach because of the wind, but I am not very paranoid about that.

[@diegopalma5123]

Hi! Which camera was used for this video? Thanks!

[@FrameVoyager]

URSA G2

[@diegopalma5123]

@@FrameVoyager looks great

[@FrameVoyager]

@@diegopalma5123 appreciate it!

[@Youknowthebo]

Another great video. I got a question regarding your rig. I see the v mount on top, but I can't see any cables. How does the v mount provide power to the bmpcc4k?

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate that! I actually just forgot to put the cable on it haha.

[@gabethompson9538]

Super helpful, great work man!

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it!

[@aarongolden]

Very useful video as I've just got this camera. What battery are you using externally? and is that the small rig SD holder, I've mounted mine on a handle as I thought it would get in the way of buttons on the camera- hoping to not use the handle so I can quickly switch from handheld to gimbal

[@FrameVoyager]

Using a V-Mount battery on mine! And yep! It's the small rig holder. I have it linked below all of my cage parts. And the nice thing with the cages is being able to set it up how you need it!

[@aarongolden]

@@FrameVoyager awesome thanks :)

[@18hyder]

Hey man. How did you mount your battery on the cage. Do you mind sharing your rig setup

[@FrameVoyager]

No problem! Making a new video for the 6k pro setup but here is the video on what I have for the p4k. Links to all parts included! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWazmYVuaLt7aMk

[@18hyder]

I’ve a 6k pro. I’ll def check out your new video as well. Thank you for this

[@obangamuzik]

I wish you mentioned through your experience with the camera which iso works better where.

[@FrameVoyager]

Did a whole video on it actually! Mentioned it at the end but here's the link! --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/boWpXqajpLWDi7M

[@obangamuzik]

@@FrameVoyager Awesome thanks

[@RadianFilms64]

Good video! Thanks! Need to print out the ISO chart to get my exposure right! Haha! :))

[@FrameVoyager]

It's on BMD's website! P6K Pro and P4k are slightly different. But I will say, if you stick to your Native ISO's at 400 and 3200 you can't go wrong. Check out this video I made for a little more detail into this subject --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/boWpXqajpLWDi7M

[@RadianFilms64]

@@FrameVoyager Thank you for the response, really appreciate it! Yes, you are right and I saw the video you're talking about haha! I'm actually taking notes from your videos, so thank you for that too!

[@FrameVoyager]

Sweet! Yeah, if you have any questions feel free to comment or join our discord channel! We have a lot of great community members there already who love to talk cameras! --> discord.gg/3aeNPU7GHu

[@Andresvideo]

I downloaded it and have it in my phone, even though I don't need it already, I memorized it :D

[@apmotionbyandyphoto650]

im in the process of testing my 6k pro's dynamic range for indoor shots. i thought working with a higher iso 800-3200 was gonna be an area i would be happy with, but i kept getting god aweful noise. in my shots, looks like im editing via antenna signal. as i am writing this i am editing an indoor video with just house lights on at 160iso i thought it was going to be to dark, but the exposure recovery is very good at low iso. and very little to no noise. so for now i am nothing this test footage as successful in reducing iso noise.

[@apmotionbyandyphoto650]

oh and im staying below 75 IRE on the highlights

[@FrameVoyager]

Hmmm... I would suggest staying at 400 or 3200. and 1250 is good at times when it's dark out.

[@jakobs2612]

Love the grade in your studio. How did you do it?

[@FrameVoyager]

Honestly? I just use the conversion LUT they have with the camera plus a cocktail of my own settings in premiere. It's a pretty simple shot and I like to make color workflow for these kinds of videos nice and simple!

[@jakobs2612]

@@FrameVoyager Yeah honsetly, I like it a lot! A bit of a "brownish" look right?

[@FrameVoyager]

@@jakobs2612 yep! Had to counteract the light bouncing off of the table that makes it warmer than normal too! Appreciate it!

[@djmx9237]

This makes me proud tbh. It’s important to really learn the camera. The bmpcc4k was my first camera and I didn’t even make any of these mistakes. I studied the camera everyday for a year before I bought it and I was already familiar with the dual iso dynamic range chart which shows you the highlights are best at iso 1000 but noise will be bad. Iso 100 highlights will be bad and shadows will be best.

[@FrameVoyager]

Smart man! Yeah, I think past learning about Dual Native ISO is actually testing it out in the wild and really getting a sense for when you should push your ISO or just leave it at the native 400. It's a fascinating topic that literally no one can agree on haha. But it's essential to be aware of it when using this camera

[@djmx9237]

@@FrameVoyager Yeah its people like you that really help to be honest. Thanks for putting put informative and accurate content 🙏🏾 I basically consumed all of Matteo Bertollis videos about the camera which was really helpful. Love your videos! Btw, r u going to release the video where you have the bmpcc4k on the car rig?

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate that! Love getting to help others understand filming and storytelling! Makes me a better videographer as well going through all of this with you guys! I should plan on doing a video on that sometime shouldn't I? haha

[@kunsunrethy]

I heard you, iso1000 is noisy!

[@FrameVoyager]

Yep! Really should only be used in specific environments

[@JasonToddRoberts]

Wow. I didn't try it, the lowest I ever went as 400 because that is suppose to be the native ISO. I haven't tired a nice camera in the water yet. I usually scuba dive with GoPros or and insta 360. The thoughts I am having going into a new year is. Where is camera technology going? We see smartphones getting better and better, consumer camera sales are fading, Prosumer cameras are getting a little better but not as fast as smartphones. I'm hoping that at some point smart phones and cameras will merge and that you could use app on it. The DJI pocket sort of does this. I tried one, it's pretty awesome when it works you can use the phone as a viewfinder and access settings. If you just bump the camera a little is disconnects.

[@FrameVoyager]

Yeahhh, I usually stay at my natives but there are some situations where you can use those others iso settings and get good results. Really about testing it out when you get a chance!

[@dougfranckwolf]

Thanks for your perspective! But I'm not sure I get why their first shoots were bad. My understanding is as long as its BRAW metadata, shooting at 100 iso or 400 iso doesn't matter. In post you can fix it all. Unless they needed the higher ISO range. But in broad daylight it should be the lower ISO range. 400 works like magic for me.

[@FrameVoyager]

Well 400 Native ISO gives you the best all around in my opinion and is really where you should shoot it at. If your at 100 ISO in direct sunlight the highlights clip because there is not that much DR above middle grey in the highlights. Now you could use the highlight recovery option, but I prefer not to have to rely on that in post. The problem being though, even with Metadata, if you expose for 100 you can't just up it to 400 ISO in post and recover all of that lost data in highlights. At the most, adjusting the ISO in post should be minimal or a last resort method. But exposing for 100 ISO give you no DR in the highlights and no room to move back if it's just too overexposed. But 400 is exactly where you want to be most of the time.

[@FrameVoyager]

Honestly, planning on doing another follow up video to this one --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/boWpXqajpLWDi7M Where I actually go out and shoot at multiple ISO levels in different conditions to show what happens instead of just talking theory.

[@dougfranckwolf]

@@FrameVoyager Hmm. The vid that really clicked for me about BRAW was from Tony Dae. He shot the same scene at every ISO up and down the range, and in Resolve he compared the clipped ISO at 100 up to the darker 1250 and when changed to ISO 400 they matched pixel for pixel. I thought that the camera is shooting at 400 regardless of what ISO you pick, but its applying a post process in camera to simulate what picked ISO would look like. I guess I will have to watch that vid again to see what I missed.

[@FrameVoyager]

@@dougfranckwolf hmmm... I'll have to check out his video! But for me, I like to be on the safe side and give myself some room!

[@dougfranckwolf]

@@FrameVoyager Sounds great! I'll look forward to that.

[@TommysVerden]

Great video as always! 😍

[@FrameVoyager]

Thanks! Been nice talking with you on the Discord as well!

[@VincentPowell]

Great topic to address man. Quick question, I’m not sure if you’ve discussed this particular set up before, but if you have I’d love a link for the breakdown. If you haven’t, well there’s a low-hanging-fruit video topic. I’ve built my rig out and it’s far from “run-and-gun.” I don’t even know what’s is under there when I look at my cinema rig with rails and wireless follow focus yada yada yada. I’d love to nail this simplified v-mount rig. Keep creating.

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it! And all credit to both of them for talking about that. Nice to see other professionals talk about getting it wrong. Already have a video on that actually from last year! I've really condensed how it's built so I don't have to break it down every shoot. Here is the link --> kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWazmYVuaLt7aMk Planning on doing one for the p6k pro here soon as well!

[@RioinOshiro]

@@FrameVoyager love your channel so much as it’s been helpful to reference when I bought my 6kpro not too long ago. My question is regarding advice on rigs for a solo shooter that I can build out now? I’ve been waiting for the Tilta cage for a while now (it’s back ordered) and feel like I’ve been limited with what I can attach to the camera at the moment while I wait for that. Should I just cancel that order and go with something else?

[@FrameVoyager]

@@RioinOshiro yeah, it's so odd to me no cages were close to being ready for the 6k pro launch. I know that Smallrig has a cage system already built for the p6k pro that you could look into! Developing my cage setup now so hopefully will have something to share here in the next month of so.

[@yangho8]

ISO have little effect in digital. You set iso 1000, it still record in native iso 400; the different is the cam screen show how it should be as iso 1000. While it is fine on screen, the cam actually underexpose and less head room to recover shadow. The same when you set iso 100, it fine on screen but the cam overexpose as native iso 400. Than less head room to recover the highlight

[@FrameVoyager]

Right, but you're still exposing it for that ISO when looking at the camera if you do it properly. So even if you move it back to 400 ISO in post, you'll still have to adjust it a lot to get it back to proper exposure. I get what you're saying though!

[@NowyKurs]

So you saying any log footage exposed on 100 ISO in any camera would have the same issues?

[@kevinbatts2804]

I almost never shot below 400 iso because of this.

[@johevideos]

👏👏👏👏

[@FrameVoyager]

❤️

[@nitheeshjr7666]

Awesome ❤️😀

[@FrameVoyager]

Appreciate it!

[@GustavoSalun]

I think what its wrong here its the understanding of ISO itself. Its not just to make your image brighter. The lowest the ISO, more information you will have on shadows and blacks, the higher the ISO more information you will have on hilighlights. How uoure going to adujst your exposure for it its another "problem". And that goes to any camera, not only blackmagics

[@FrameVoyager]

Absolutely! I'm really a stick to the native ISO's kind of guy and change them last. You do get some better details like you said in those but you have to know which situations call for you to use them

[@thebrothersthre3987]

Not sure that either of those guys are experts. Exposing correctly is pretty standard across all cameras.

[@FrameVoyager]

I would say they both know a great deal about cameras. But I would also disagree that exposing is standard across all cameras. Maybe when it comes to the basics like aperture, shutter angle/speed, etc. But things like Dual Native ISO is a lot different than if you were filming on a Sony or a Cannon. Every camera reacts to differently

[@Andresvideo]

They are great filmmakers and researchers and youtubers, but I was also surprised they both would have failed using the P4K for the first time because of that. The time it took to deliver the orders I already knew about the relation between ISO and Middle grey in this camera, which is the same as other superior cameras work.

[@FILMS1982]

Not to be rude but undone shouldn't be giving any tips on film making, follow Matteo Bertli he actually uses the camera and docent talk like undone dose and explains what iso us great for outdoors like 800 or 1000 he figured this out before they did. He's the one to listen to not a script reader

[@kingsingson5805]

great video but pls stop repeating sentences

[@FrameVoyager]

😂👌