The Bonnie Blue dilemma

[@pendragon2012]

Ah yes, the old line between being legal and being ethical. Bosses exploit that in every field. And should be called out. Interesting video, Alice!

[@ville-c4u]

no one cares

[@pendragon2012]

@@ville-c4u Clearly someone does.

[@BSatFL1995]

Jul 16, 2018 - A Texas private equity firm has closed its $289 million acquisition of the Weinstein Co., and will seek to revive the studio. Lantern Private equity MeTOO is a joke.

[@vladimir.putinn_007]

Will women define ethics now 😂 Men will and has always

[@smithsunleashed]

@@vladimir.putinn_007what is the point of your comment putin?

[@benf1111]

I appreciate you sharing the informal sexual expectations of men too. It took me some time in my younger years to separate what I "thought I should want " and what I actually wanted. Those expectations can be so loud you don't even realize they're not yours.

[@benf1111]

@ricardosantos6721 your reading comprehension needs work.

[@benf1111]

@@ricardosantos6721 wow, I appreciate your kindness and interest in me random internet guy. Maybe you haven't gotten there yet, but there's such a thing as discovering that what ypu thought were your wants and desires were just those of the people you're around, or ypur parents, or your society. Perhaps when you've matured enough you will experience the same.

[@Raywrites_books]

As a male with a history of grooming by older women, the marketing of "barely legal" boys made me want to puke. Men can be exploited sexually and I think patriarchal heteronormativity causes men to jump into sexual experiences and that can make them both predators and victims.

[@LuanaKiehl333]

100%! And just bc it’s a woman doing it doesn’t mean she can not have internalised predatory patriarchal aspects within herself, used to exploit young men.

[@jugo1944]

What 18 year old man is upset about a got woman fucking him? Get a grip

[@manuelsilva6244]

​@@LuanaKiehl333if it's a woman using feminine tactics to exploit young men how is it patriarchal in nature? Sound to me that is very matriarcal.

[@Redbeardblondie]

Man grooming = Patriarchal Woman grooming = also Patriarchal Ah yes, the old “when Man, Bad; but when Woman, Good” perspective. That’s right men, your problems are ALSO your fault!

[@botidobra6221]

Freedom and equality are incompatible.The false god of equality necessarily leads to totalitarianism.A party committee would decide who has sex with whom...

[@grey-yem]

Jesus, the censorship on KZbin is getting pretty annoying. I don't think punishing creators for using words like porn and sex is a necessary trade for limiting actually problematic content. Or is it?

[@hansmemling7605]

Even comments get policed this way. It’s honestly absurd.

[@Sina-dv1eg]

KZbin does not, she's just censoring herself because she doesn't want to take any risks. Look at the auto-generated subtitles, they can still tell that the word sex is being said

[@williambrasky3891]

Right? I feel like as a kid, I learned the word “sexy” a good 5 or more years before i really knew what sex actually entailed. Hell, kids use the word “sex” as a sort of (icky) vague approximation for the real thing not long after they’ve started forming a conception for “sexy.” I don’t want to get into the whole philosophical debate about whether the societal presentation of sex & sexuality which kids pick up on is conducive to forming a healthy relationship with one’s sexual development. No doubt, there’s a lot of room for improvement, but the fact of the matter using a euphemism for sex won’t prevent kids from picking up on the concept of sex. At best, all it will accomplish is to teach them a euphemism for sex. This whole idea of “just don’t say the word & the kid won’t pick up on the concept” is so simplistic & based on such a profoundly baffling misunderstanding of childhood development. It makes you wonder if it’s not a stretch to say the vast majority of adults have no memory of their own childhood & what it was like at all. Sad thing is, memories of childhood aren’t all that necessary if someone has a rudimentary understanding of their own process for deduction, parsing social cues, contextual reasoning, etc.

[@benjaminhigham3624]

@@Sina-dv1egyes it detects it but certain words and topics if detected excessively will trigger demonization or age-restriction which reduces the revenue a video can earn.

[@Sina-dv1eg]

@@benjaminhigham3624 I haven't seen any conclusive evidence for that. As far as I'm aware, it's complete superstition, since nobody knows how videos are demonitized

[@beepbeepmeepmeep]

Really like your description of transaction/hosting fees as RENT. It’s clear and unambiguous. A lot of us (espec millennials) still view the internet space as outside the normal economic power struggle of ‘real life’ and the fees as just a part of it. More critique of the platforms is needed, and education about what they are actually doing economically, beyond shareholders or the chance to have one’s “own” marketplace.

[@yota8325]

The platform wouldn't be as successful as it is if it wasn't providing sufficient value for the fee that it charges.

[@AM-pleistocene]

I don't understand how during the time of 'sex work is empowering' feminism, which is millennial feminism, that women didn't clock that money is power. The moment you stop being appealing, the moment the money stops coming in, and then you have lost power. That power never belonged to sex workers, no matter how many men viewed them, it was borrowed. It played a lot into 'women have power over men when they use sexuality' that women have been told for centuries and which has been used to demonise and glamorise women while always maintaining the status quo. Millenial feminism was depressing for me, because it focused on things that the status quo could easily remodel and reassert itself over. People thought shocking and titillating conservatives was the height of women's lib. It was a sign that education had failed us, and despite the focus on 'empowerment' it was an incredibly timid and passive era of feminism.

[@ville-c4u]

no one cares

[@manuelsilva6244]

You understand that google and other companies have to buy physical servers tho host your videos right? Of course you have to pay something for it. Without those physical servers this people would not be able to do a career in corn

[@nielskorpel8860]

@@AM-pleistocene I see some of your criticisms, but I do think that seeing sex work as work is an improvement on the stigma one might put on sex workers based on the image of that job being an abused position (implicit: that you are at fault for putting yourself in). Seeing it as work that should be as non-exploitative and possibly even useful (see for example the idea of sex work as intimacy therapie) as possible, is a benefit with respect to that. It is totally fine to criticise that even such a scenario can leave women vulnerable in the way you describe.

[@TheJofurr]

Legality is a convenient excuse for exploitation in a socioeconomic system built for the purpose of extracting wealth and labor from its subjects. In this context, the more empowered you are, the more complicit you are in that injustice.

[@cactus2260]

Something people don't get is that one can also exploit oneself. OF not only takes part of their hard earned money, even if it were 100% their money the market itself would exploit them, by having to do more extreme acts, by upholding a schedule they may not want, by bargaining with their image. My sex worker friends often complain about this, and they're doing the "empowering" route to sex work.

[@jessicadunton115]

Dang that is SO true!!! The question is how can we then change?

[@TheJofurr]

@@cactus2260 Pretty much, although I wouldn't consider that self-exploitation since the market is still an external coercive force and participation in the market is more or less inescapable.

[@feltfrog]

@@cactus2260sex work is never empowering, lol

[@Alaskan-Armadillo]

Exactly!

[@corndo9]

haven’t watched this yet but I love how at least a third of the things you make videos about I’ve either never heard of or had no prior interest in but you always have something so insightful and compelling to say

[@TheGingerburger]

I just can't believe she's only 25 years old,she looks like she's pushing 40

[@flexbabe1122]

She lies about her age, she is 27-28

[@sarahg2653]

Whoa...she's only 25?!? I did not know this. I thought she was in her 40s, too. It's the boots and fillers. Makes young women look twice their age.

[@sarahg2653]

*botox, not boots. Haha.

[@erinpurdey]

I thought she was way older too. It's more than just the Botox and fillers. It's her hair and wardrobe too. I don't think if she's trying the look of older, but it's working.

[@paulsillanpaa8268]

I’m glad you mentioned how the young men aren’t being paid for their work (despite their youth being BB’s main commodity). The idea that they should be ‘happy to participate’ and that’s all is gross. I think that while BB is a problem, the real harm is likely to come from copycats. She’s high enough profile that she won’t break any laws. But her popularity means a whole lot of other creators/performers are going to follow in her footsteps, but are less likely to follow the law (or care about consent). That’ll be where the real exploitation happens…

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

Why would they be paid when they want to do it? In fact if she charged £50 they’d still be lining up

[@paulsillanpaa8268]

@ Three reasons: 1) if money changes hands, that makes the young man an employee/contractor (not sure how Aussie law works here) which gives them _some_ rights. Like I said, I don’t think BB is being especially exploitative, but she’s setting the bar for more unscrupulous copy cats. 2) It drives home to the young man that this is work, not play. While it’s true that they’re adults & can make their own decisions, having cash in hand helps emphasize this. Finally 3) work is work. If the work has value (and it does) it deserves compensation.

[@swordierre9341]

wierd framing: "the idea that they should be happy t participate" implies someone is coercing these guys, when in reality they sought out Bonnie themselves. I get it though, this isnt accually a serious discussion, just the cliche femnist discorce-farming. Finding a a way to frame everything as "problematic" while never saying anything concrete.

[@swordierre9341]

@@paulsillanpaa8268 who cares what label you want to put on the transaction, if both parties are consenting there's no issue. As i said, its all a framing game with you guys.

[@ariannateodora5469]

Please stop calling this “work”. None of this is work. Its an abomination.

[@TheBoringAddress]

I was watching a Khadije Mbowe video the other day (I think it was about 4B) and she used one word to describe s3x, one of those Suddenly-Enlightening words that best captures and conveys what consent ultimately is, a word so self-evident that you can't believe you didn't thought of it before: sharing (each other's bodies). Whether casual fling or long-term, that's the word every single f**** conversation about sex as framed by the right conveniently omits this supposedly obvious word, making it something you "take" (according to puritanism) and/or something you're owed and entitled to (according to the manosphere and everything in between). Always antagonical, never sex for its own sake.

[@mojishu]

Fantastic point, just thought I’d let you know that Khadija Mbowe uses they/them pronouns

[@TheBoringAddress]

@mojishu D'OH... and that's why you don't type with one hand while you hold a Border Collie's leash with the other.

[@ville-c4u]

no one cares

[@Haplo59]

Good point, I make it mine. Thanks for sharing ;)

[@Jamhael1]

Then you must stop the antagonism between men and women.

[@maxwell9211]

If you have to use the term “barely legal” it’s 9/10 times it’s probably not ethical

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

These sights are sooooo effing unregulated it’s totally sick.

[@ville-c4u]

no one cares

[@ok..7616]

pornhub and onlyfans are not “unregulated”

[@Jebediahmosiah]

@@ville-c4u millions of people absolutely care a lot.

[@swordierre9341]

What regulation would you add?

[@yeahyupp2448]

​@@swordierre9341 remove the sights full stop. Or make it so to access them you need to purchase a pass or a code from a sex shop or a service station.

[@kp361]

When she says she's 25, does she mean in dog years?

[@chrissierose]

Her name is Debbie Dog .

[@ballman2010]

Recently through conversations with someone close to me, I've come to see consent through a slightly different lens, because the conversation surrounding consent (in my experience) mostly only covers the act itself and communication in that moment. Definitely necessary, but not sufficient. I don't to think it's possible to communicate the whole idea in a youtube comment, but in short, if a person's socialization causes them to be unable to fully check in with themselves and be present in that moment, true consent kind of can't fully be given. This would be true for women whose socialization pressures them to put others' desires and needs before their own (I'm definitely oversimplifying). Weirdly, this ALSO would be true for men whose socialization pressures them to secure this goal at all cost or else face humiliation/rejection/etc. Basically, if everyone is run by their low-level programming, consent gets a whole lot murkier. And of course, this imbalance of expectations leads men to more often be perpetrators in this scenario. There's a ton of nuance to this situation and I honestly think we're just scratching the surface. It's really important to keep finding ways to discuss this in empathetic, neutral circumstances whenever we can.

[@kkon5ti]

Good point

[@epbrown01]

You understand that you are arguing for more people to be put into conservatorships? The rights you get with autonomy come with taking responsibility for themselves. You can’t argue that someone shouldn’t be held responsible for their choices while still giving them the right to make those choices. It’s well known that many people were coerced or pressured into joining gangs or engaging in criminal acts - we send them to prison anyway.

[@fruitygarlic3601]

@@epbrown01 Nothing in the comment implies an argument for conservatorships. You're fighting windmills.

[@epbrown01]

@@fruitygarlic3601 One of the foundational principles of civilization is that people are responsible for their actions and choices on reaching adulthood unless they are judged mentally incompetent, when others are assigned that responsibility. The argument that an adult isn’t responsible for their actions due to “socialization” begs the question “who IS responsible if they themselves aren’t?”

[@hansmemling7605]

This is very hard to solve from a legal point of view. Being able to retract sexual consent after the fact opens up serious legality problems. You could be married to someone for 20 years and they suddenly go: you’ve been raping me all these years. While this is a topic very much needed for a lot of people to understand who they are, what they and what they need, I’m not sure it possible to come to a conclusion that can impact the broader society.

[@MyrnaBarton]

Women's liberation should center on education and personal and social empowerment. People need to feel better about sex, and for people to feel better about sex people need to feel better about women. I don't think this Bonnie Blue person is the best person to look to for that. I think right to sex beliefs are terrible. We still need to talk about sex.

[@kkon5ti]

Good point

[@SamHarrisonMusic]

In the ‘when sex is good again’ quote really exposes that the author only sees consent as an issue for women, not for men.

[@LuanaKiehl333]

“Barely legal” is a sick concept, as if from the day you turn legal age you are suddenly a full adult. People mature at different speeds and are put under such pressure to live up to false expectations, not to mention that brain development isn’t fully done yet. I think it’s super important on the part of parenting as well to pass on what discernment, responsibility, critical thinking, and consent is! A paper I read yesterday talked about how coercive our entire education systems are, how they already teach breaching consent, that’s really crazy actually..

[@ÍtaloResiå]

So the legal age should be variable?

[@nielskorpel8860]

What improvements would you advocate for?

[@lihchong2267]

Was she here on a tourist visa? Technically she was working if she was filming OF content, and could be deported for not having a working visa. Yes, this has the potential to be selectively enforced and abused.

[@RobertDrane]

Maybe that's related to not paying these men. I'd say you probably don't need a work visa to record content for a travel vlog for instance, but once you are hiring locals for profit I don't think you'd have the same status. Edit: How funny would it be if I was wrong and every thirst-trap-around-the-world instagram account is taxed and regulated as a transnational corporation?

[@mof5490]

So a KZbinr that films and posts everywhere traveled around the globe are breaking the law…ok buddy😂

[@JewTube001]

Sex workers never say they're working, they pretend it's a holiday. So yeah

[@AnaCristina-pi8ep]

The spanish law only yes means yes have been heavely critised because it leaves a legal gap that has made a lot of rapists to not face any legal consent. I recomend you to look a little bit on the spanish law regarding sex crimes, it’s totally shameful. At least here in Spain that matter has been a big thing and this law was a totally fail

[@TheTigronette]

There need to be as many pieces as possible on how platforms and the gig economy have wrought havoc upon our existence - Only fans, air B&B, explosion of the local drug trade, slashing prices for freelance work, commodified dating and the rise of hypergamy, Wish and Shein... none of this would have happened before Uber opened Pandora's box. So thanks for this!

[@HeySlothKid]

Why go for "bonk" when you can go for the much funnier "boink"?

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Bonk is more scientific :P

[@KurtesolWafelosi]

Asking the important questions, my friend 👆

[@גורלרון]

I believe she used it because it's the term said adult creator uses for her videos

[@ballman2010]

​@@chelseashurmantine8153 I dunno, I have it on good authority that indeed, scientific progress goes "boink"

[@HeySlothKid]

@@גורלרון I meant the adult creator lol

[@traumaqueeen]

Why does women's liberation always revolve around sex? I'm so sick of this correlation. Even associating abortion rights to women's liberation. Is there more to being a liberated women in West than sex and reproduction?

[@manoneveren479]

I want to agree, but throwing abortion rights into this something that is ultimately healthcare is wrong. Ultimately sex sells and is also a huge part of life so obviously in public it’s a big topic, because it is important. Nevertheless we should try to highlight the variety of women’s liberation and try to understand why sex and also dating plays such a huge role in public discourse.

[@gunelmamedova3577]

This is a very dangerous mindset!

[@slartibartfast7921]

Well said. It’s almost like a dude’s interpretation of women’s liberation is…. Funny that 🤔

[@AlexanderSkinnerVids]

This linkage just gives ammo to the “repeal the 19th” crowd

[@Cailloumax]

My opinion: Woman have been kept at bay under the pretense of them needing to not bring shame for the family. And that the ultimate shame is having sex, even before they are even part of said family. So having woman able to accept (or refuse) the sex without shame is a big part of their liberation

[@iniputu]

When I was an 18 year old boy, I was still dreaming about love.

[@3zObafouzr]

I'm a little uneasy with the way people are using the term 'barely legal' here. we can debate the law and where we should draw the line wrt sex work but once those lines are drawn then acts are either legal or not. I'd prefer words that lack a legal implication like 'distasteful' or 'predatory' or maybe even 'immoral' as descriptors of bonnie's work also i have noticed that a lot of the criticism of her online (much of it deserved!) starts out by denigrating her appearance (oh wow i thought she was in her 40s etc). grim all round

[@YounhaMizuki]

I will say about the appearance thing; I don’t think that’s just degrading her (some people might) but I honestly thought she was in her 40s.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

​@@YounhaMizuki I looked up her age... Fillers are really doing the opposite of what they're supposed to do

[@JerusnamWien85]

Agreed. I think people try not to use the word “immorality” as it can have a religious connotation to it. However, I think it’s apt here, and “unethical.”

[@emzetkin1100]

​@@YounhaMizuki She's got the influencer/celebrity face. This may be controversial, but plastic surgery culture has gone too far, taking people with perfectly lovely human faces and making them think they're ugly because they don't match the botoxed and collagen-injected faces they see online.

[@ruslbicycle6006]

Well, in defense of the term 'barely legal': -It is a common term in the 'peach' industry, with a known meaning -it emphasizes the legality, which is the most objective description of the practice Perhaps your objection is to the common salacious meaning as normally used in the peach industry? This can be a positive exciting marketing term or a negative immoral predatory meaning depending on your perspective. It's about following the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law maybe? However, law is law and we tend to, as a society, have the boundary be exactly the law is the moral boundary - ie maximise your tax exemptions is good but claiming even a little bit beyond that is bad. Personally, I don't like the term barely legal as it implies that the breaking the law is exciting and positive in this context when I think that the law to protect children is good. However, my preference would be something like 'technically legal' which doesn't designate morality and is also free of the salacious marketing context. BAREly is used in marketing I think partly because it implies the nude or naked which is exciting. Similar to the term NUBILE which has a weird meaning about marriage and should not really be a sex term but because most people don't know that and it kind of has the sound of the NUDE in there it is used as a sexy word on peach marketing.

[@crashb800]

I’ve had a couple of moments of making out where I was quite emotionally disconnected. Did I really want it or did I go along? I’m not quite sure. I think this comes from how desperate I often am, and I think a lot of guys are desperate, and that desperation can be taken advantage of.

[@hansmemling7605]

I have forced myself to sleep with women that were propositioning me because I felt that it was an opportunity that I shouldn’t pass on. Given I’m a man I would have felt like I’m not a real man had I not said yes. All those experiences were quite boring though and the sex was never good. I’m not ruling the idea of a one night stand out in the slightest but I don’t think I’ve experience the right kind.

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

U guys are being too dramatic tbh

[@MayankJairaj]

Aah 2 AM vids haven't been more interesting

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

It doesn't matter as for the genders, two men, two women, or man and woman, people in their twenties or above getting physical with teens is creepy and not ok.

[@emzetkin1100]

If your age ends in teen, you're too young for this ween 😤

[@ÍtaloResiå]

When i was 16 years old i was with girl of 21, the otherway around might be weird, but as far she was the older one, i was so on heaven.

[@mississipi1103]

​@@ÍtaloResiåYou were still groomed ... You've been brainwashed into thinking that it was cool because you're a dude

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

@@ÍtaloResiåyeah when I was a teen I got with a 35 year old

[@raeoffunshine7985]

Love your videos so I don't want to sound too critical here, but I kinda wish you'd either gone more into the visa getting revoked or not mentioned it at all. That kind of action by the state is a big deal. Like I don't know about Australia but I'm fairly certain in the US if my partner's visa were revoked they'd have to go home and start the process over again to come back, if they even were allowed to. There's a lot of implications about who the state defines as being a bad actor and how it's allowed to respond to them. Still a great video though!

[@luxvenus]

"But because she's on a visitor's visa, and therefore unable to carry out paid work, her permission to enter the country has been rescinded by the authorities" So I'm sure that the country has like also not like the idea of what she's doing, but it seems b/c she was doing labor while on a non-work visa, and i will say, christmas island is a bigger australia immigration horror (all borders are violence tho)

[@mozismobile]

Australia, like many countries, has a huge problem with people on tourist visas doing sex work. The fact that sex work can be legal here doesn't really change the problem - most countries will deport people working on non-work visas. There's also an element of "don't publish evidence of you committing crimes" here too.

[@luxvenus]

@@mozismobile yeah it's like the last part even me i'm like girllll come on

[@yota8325]

​@luxvenus If she wasn't applying for a work visa then Australia has every right to decline her visa given she was going there to work

[@ville-c4u]

no one cares

[@Data7ven]

This video help me describe to my therapist what I want to focus on thank you genuinely thank you

[@thomas9685]

This was a fantastic breakdown and I appreciate you for diving into the nuances of this incident.

[@GreenRexker]

I was disappointed by this video. Imagine if a guy had done what Bonnie Blue had done - had sex with barely legal teenage girls, profited off it and not paid them. Told them they were doing them a favour. Had sex with one after another, with no real health protections. They would rightly be ripped apart. People talk and talk about the concept of men and women being treated equally, but it feels like if you just ask a few questions, you'll realize so few people actually believe that vs those who say it. I guess you really see who believes in an ideal when they maintain it even if it's uncomfortable or hurts the in group. For what its worth, I don't hate Bonnie. I think she made a key realization about boys and men and saw rhat as a niche within a market. She profited off it. None of that is inherently bad. What is inherently bad is she's exploiting a gender gap and pretending its progressive. She's not checking IDs are real in a situation where some people are incentivized to lie. She's profiting off the free work of others. She's not doing any health checks to ensure that people are protected. And from what I've heard she has made fun of young men who can't do what ahe wants in that situation. I think her situation is very revealing - even confronted with a clear example of abusive behaviour many women (including the top comment on this video!) are either not viewing it as a abusive or downplaying it. "Only men commit abuse, only women can be victims." It's total nonsense. I don't think Bonnie should be ripped apart, lose her job or whatever. But I think she should stop doing barely legal group sex, apolpgise, and pay back the people she worked with. She deserves all the criticism, blame, and shaming she gets until she does so.

[@Musashi-if3tl]

Welcome to feminism when its NEVER the woman's fault and somehow she is always the victim. There is no point reasoning with them since all their worldview is based on their "feelings".😅😅 This woman and that 304 are disgusting to enable such depravity. But being sex objects is ok as long as it profits the women. These women never wanted equality but special treatment. All of this will collapse on its own since truth can never be suppressed.

[@feltfrog]

@@Musashi-if3tlYou sound very angry and ill-informed.

[@Musashi-if3tl]

@@feltfrog lol, I am laughing my ass off at this chicanery. Try coming up with something original when u cant even retort properly 😆 😅 😂 🤣

[@Coolbeans1312]

She says in the video, its predatory and explains why its falsely seen in a different lense as it would if the genders are swapped

[@Musashi-if3tl]

@@Coolbeans1312 except she didnt with the same moral and righteous indignation as she would have if the genders were swapped. Stop coping and accept that women just cant bear accountability.

[@hollysemancik469]

She is not in her 20's. Shes late 30s or early 40's

[@kashiusford9361]

Thank you Alice, your analysis is always so good!

[@luxvenus]

yeah someone took my mom's pictures, made a fake fb page, and then created an of page and they wouldn't take it down

[@ThatGuyWierd]

I just don't think the men here were victims. I don't agree with what she's doing and think the men who showed up are crazy to risk disease etc. But the guys turning up to run a train on some woman are supposed to be seen as victims who didn't give consent? This could have gone very badly for her if some guys showed up who she didnt want to do it with and who wouldn't take no for an answer. Im all for equality but let's face it the guys haven't been coerced or taken advantage of. Okay maybe there were some virgins or desperate people who's only chance at sexual contact was going to syand in line with 50 other men to have a go an bonnie.. she still hasn't coerced anyone has she. God this is icky

[@milesnugent5916]

Thanks for making this video and mentioning the unspoken expectation of men to "always want sex" I, like many others in the comments had to unlearn that the hard way. I've been trying to learn more about the patriarchy and specifically its affect on boys/men and I think that unspoken expectation does a lot of harm. I remember when I was 18 I came home from a 7am - 10pm school/work day and my gf at the time wanted to have sex and that night I said no because I was literally dizzy with exhaustion. She was furious and was convinced I was either cheating on her or that I all of sudden found her ugly. That interaction shocked me and I have never forgotten it. Most partners I've had have reinforced this expectation. One time after a 3rd date with a girl we went to my place and she said she wanted to have sex and I was like "sure okay" but I was actually not ready and I forced myself anyway and I got into my own head and when I stopped things to say I wasn't ready she got upset and stormed out. So it made me feel like I couldn't be honest about my feelings and made the prospect of relationships and sex even more scary and had me thinking I was broken in some way.. I am thankful though that I did eventually find a partner that didn't chastise me for having these feelings and helped me through that negative space I found myself in. I just wish I had learned/unlearned these things sooner, would have saved me and others a lot of time and heartache. Thanks again for what you do, Alice.

[@bongoseropersa5240]

I genuinely love how you approach this dialectically

[@StephenNieman-w9h]

You're all giving her exactly what she set out to get

[@poochy]

Whatever I thought “bonk” meant here, it wasn’t that

[@caiden3396]

The effects of trendbait, self cemsorship, and algospeak on the english language drive me nuts.😑

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

​@@caiden3396 "boink" has been a euphemism for sex for decades. Also, euphemism and censorship have existed way before the internet.

[@caiden3396]

@@Abcdefg-tf7cu Tik Tok has sped it up like crazy, though, and it added trendbait. The self-censorship that's a result of Tik Tok is also a bit different. I just find it annoying.

[@caiden3396]

@@Abcdefg-tf7cu Self-cemsorship feels different nowadays, though. And I'm aware language changes and that some slang has been revived or brought to new groups after a long time. It's just annoying the way current technology has affected the English language. It's like an unnatural amount of emphasis is put on difference when it comes to words with too little respect for sameness. It's similar to the Uncanny valley. The human brain doesn't seem to be made for that, and sameness is important sometimes.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

@caiden3396 It's not really "self censorship" in any way other than Tik Tokers being brain poisoned and wanting to feel persecuted. Half the weird terms and euphemisms they use aren't even for things that they could get demonetized for. They just have a delusion that saying "death" instead of "unalive" will get them demonetized.

[@andiralosh2173]

I always learn something from your work. Someone needs to do a deep dive on how trans people end up in relationships with manipulative people who want a partner with low expectations and a broken read for red flags. It's not just men causing harm either. Perhaps similarly to how other dejected minority populations are targeted, trans folx are conditioned to feel worthless and tolerate abuse

[@LondonMoneyCashEnterprise]

How is the experience of trans people different from the experience of unnatractive people in general

[@DrustZapat]

Great video! Thanks for making it 😊

[@bertramblik8826]

this video came out before her 1k in a day experiment

[@othmaneelmansouri6314]

This topic made feel sick. I should take a break from watching videos about predators.

[@joegithler]

Does consent exist when there is coercion (capitalism)? There are work requirements in the US to get food stamps and in some states Medicare. I've often thought the reason sex work isn't legal in the United States is because that would make it too obvious people were having sex with strangers to eat or get cancer treatment.

[@caffetiel]

Arguably no, which is how you get to that one radfem line of argument that all (hetero) sex is grape.

[@KurtesolWafelosi]

Very good!! Thank you, alice !

[@olivetree9920]

It's a great time to be asexual

[@T.K.P.]

😂😂

[@mofthemoth5755]

Hey I know this was probably supposed to be a light-hearted jokey comment but like, idk considering the subject matter, it feels a bit insensitive. Like what's the joke? Is the joke that you being ace means you don't have to engage with dubious ethically things like the porn industry (okay not a bad joke tbh) or is it that you being ace means you'd never find yourself in the same situation as some of these younger men? Because if its the latter, I just feel like it's kind of really insensitive. I'm sure it wasn't a consious choice but the framing of your joke feels a bit victim blamey on the men (idk it's giving "Wow. I'd never fall for this unlike these idiots" vibes). Idk, this is a video about vulnerable young men being sexually exploited and I just feel like the jokes kind of undermines some of the seriousness. Idk you might think im taking this too seriously (and maybe I am) but just ask yourself. If this video was about an older man dubiously sexually exploiting inexperienced young women. Would you still have commented that?

[@leoniemelodie7]

Ooh... I'm 13 minutes in and fuming... To me men and women should be equal, that means, men are just as susceptible to being victims as women, especially young ones. I think there shouldn't be a gap between sexual expectations of men and women... I'm really saddened by how helpless some men feel - with all the pipelines they go into... Even my "ex" talked to me about how he almost went into an alpha men, women hating pipeline (and he was sweet and all that). I'm saddened because I don't see HEALTHY conversation, like I can see in intersectional feminism. Everytime there's some "healthcare" for young men widely accessible, it seems to be teaching them to dismiss women's rights and hate or (how to) patronize them... I don't think men are inherently bad, never thought it, though the reality is that the world brought us to be mostly violented by men. Men violenting men. And women violenting them as well, as a continuity of that culture. So, I wish there was a feminist place for men to get help. I also wish more people would be less stuck in their own discrimination to open up to others' (that's really awfully said, but I mean that violence is a circle, and all around me I just see violence being perpetrated. Take the US elections and Arcane's 6th episode....)

[@KurtesolWafelosi]

Arcanes sixth episode ...

[@leoniemelodie7]

@@KurtesolWafelosi Yeah... In my brain that episode and the state of the world connect together - hoping you've seen it. (Season 2)

[@msdiana485]

Men are not just as susceptible to being victims. Every statistic on gender based violence will tell you that men are significantly LESS likely to become victims. That isn’t to say they can’t be victims, but come on be real, it happens far far less often

[@beepbeepmeepmeep]

Especially Schoolies… it’s disgusting. For decades actual grown adults (not technical just turned 18 and left school adults) were called TOOLIES and were usually males waiting for vulnerable, intoxicated girls isolated from their friends. It is unsurprising, because women can be predators too, but as a woman about the same age it is absolutely sickening what Bonnie and other creeps like her are doing.

[@mozismobile]

One of the issues is that those healthy spaces for men get attacked by many sides - feminists unhappy at men once again excluding women, anti-feminists upset that men might realise they have emotions, homophobes pushing the idea that men talking to each other is gay, and so on. I'm old enough to have seen several versions of this. Part of the problem is the horrified reaction from feminists to men claiming to have been the victims of abuse or violence at the hands of women, but ruling that out as a topic tends to cause problems (the current reddit group suffers from this). Modern transphobia often adds a weird tinge to it as well. There's also a need to look back at one of the issues that came up in early women's consciousness-raising, only gender-swapped: it's not healthy for women to listen to men ranting about their problems. And it's extremely unhelpful to demand men never do that, and require they be supervised at all times to stop them doing it.

[@AlexanderSkinnerVids]

Not to mention, piracy is rampant. It ain’t stopping anytime soon, and these creators don’t care enough.

[@soepdelsoep]

I like this format❤

[@aporue5893]

thery'e hardly ''grown'' 18 is still a very immature age. So I think it's still wrong.

[@EchoingQuack]

so alice you’re essentially telling me that i may find myself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife? and i may ask myself “well, how did i get here?”?

[@phoenixkali]

When the days go by….

[@reaganwiles_art]

This channel is RAD.

[@MarceldeJong]

Imagine a middle aged man walking around a campus with a sign that says “bonk with me and let me film it”… he’d be in jail! But somehow when a woman does that, it’s a money making business… I don’t understand this world anymore

[@ÍtaloResiå]

I woman giving free boink is part of men's interest, therefore we let them because we want them, a man giving free boink is part of women uninterest, thet like it difficult.

[@caffetiel]

@@ÍtaloResiå it's not that women 'like it difficult'; it's that men are pretty uniformly threatening and need to be vetted intensely. Further, women are saddled with vastly more responsibility if BC fails or is circumvented by the man.

[@ÍtaloResiå]

@@caffetiel You can add the reasons you said, but the one's i said still up, taking in consideration that women truly are uninterested in easy target, they just want the one's who play games with their mind, i know that for a absolute fact because if i act normally, i get no woman, but if i show both interest and uninterest to a woman, then there's a possibility of we getting in a relationship or just one night stand.

[@caffetiel]

@ÍtaloResiå You continue to understand nothing smfh

[@ÍtaloResiå]

@@caffetiel I'm all ears, explain your point.

[@emzetkin1100]

9:59 I've seen most of the To Catch a Predator segments at this point. Do you know how many predators on that show claimed they wanted to "teach" the decoys about sex?

[@TheHillrat4wd]

Just an update only fans has banned that video that you're speaking of, so you know you've hit rock bottom when only fans banneds a video

[@elleliteracy]

omg the stop motion i’m obsessed

[@gusg6197]

Companies here aren’t making money through “rent” which charges a flat fee for occupation. Companies are making money through commission, where more successful creators are paying more money as a percentage of their revenue.

[@darylmckay]

It's odd. I am subscribed to receive all of your posts, but this one never came through, I saw it randomly show up. I hope it isn't a trend, I love your content!

[@merbst]

I worked for the Los Angeles porn industry throughout the 2000s, & I found the various companies to act far more ethically than the various other companies where I had worked as software engineer in tech startups & for medical administration software providers.

[@feltfrog]

yeah, you do look like a man that worked in the porn industry 🤢

[@James4791zx]

Was it better before the online ****tubes?

[@deslomator]

[off topic] censored words make it somewhat tough to follow the argument.

[@anathematic5083]

it's no one's responsibility to educate people around them. yeah, that's great, now I'm surrounded by idiots.

[@Jamhael1]

Carry on like that, and their ignorance will be your undoing. Knowledge is to be shared, not hoarded.

[@emzetkin1100]

​@@Jamhael1 I think that was this commenter's point, that if we don't take the burden of educating others on ourselves, we'll be surrounded by fools.

[@Jamhael1]

@emzetkin1100 then start "whipping" the people around you to let it go from the entitled - yes, ENTITLED - laziness they have whenever they claim "it is not my job to teach them". The opps NEVER get tired! Why should you be tired?

[@ÍtaloResiå]

The more fools the better, makes it easier to win by not being one.

[@Jamhael1]

@@ÍtaloResiå a society of fools is one who see intelligence as a threat. This is what justified Inquisitors...

[@pichedbystrom]

Ty good channel alot of good information and give a different wiew of this thing

[@Otherlevel51]

Bonnie Blue is just the decentralization of corn which is created by the internet not so much the creator. Which mean problems corn stars had to deal with in the industry haven't changed. It doesn't really matter how much money they make all pornstar hit and existential crisis at some point in there career or life. Eventually even they want to get away from the corn they created.

[@Zenoandturtle]

Amateur adult content has to be banned totally.

[@pichedbystrom]

Great video good points

[@veryoldman-b6w]

Hi Alice, I’ve watched, enjoyed and learnt a lot from many of your videos but this one I find somewhat confusing. First of all being an Australian living in Australia and in Queensland where the majority of “schoolies” are held BB’s Visa was not cancelled because of some sort of moral outrage over her proposed activities but because she didn’t have the correct Visa to work. Now undoubtedly this was convenient for the Australian government. Secondly, let’s talk about the concept of “barely legal” the age of consent in Australia is 16 if she was attracted to a 16 year old person in Australia and they consented to have s*x with her this would be perfectly legal. The reality is that while the age of consent is 16 usually you need to be 18 to enter into a contract which is what these young men are doing. It should also be recognised that BB, according to Google is 25 years of age it would not normally be considered “barely legal” for 25-year-old to be having s*x with an 18-year-old. So, it’s a great marketing for her but perhaps somewhat of an exaggeration. Clearly the sexual activity between BB and these young men is transactional in nature. The only difference is in this case that rather than paying BB directly a third-party or parties are picking up the tab. It’s also worth noting here that you speak of these young men and the young men who attend schoolies essentially interchangeably. Particularly when you speak of gendered sexual expectation. This year the schoolies celebration on the Gold Coast will attract between 20,000 and 30,000 school leavers and about half of them will be male. Therefore, the overwhelming majority of male schoolies are not choosing to take up the offer of BB or in her absence the other content creators who have taken up residence on the Gold Coast. You join the dots between sex work is work, sex work is community work and then say that this is “coherent with the right to sex”. I think this is a bit of a stretch and I would go as far as to say that really this is a slippery slope fallacy. Let’s be clear I find what BB and these young men do a bit icky but just because what consenting adults do in a sexual context may not be appealing to me doesn’t by its very nature make it illegal, immoral or necessarily antifeminist.

[@anikaahmed9700]

i think the main thing that makes this situation wrong is that fact , the young men are not being paid and BB is earning a lot from only fans. only fans is subcribsion based and know to generate a lot if money. it's unfair transaction. the video of the young men will stay the internet forever and might come back to harm their reputation or careers.

[@veryoldman-b6w]

@k.a.w177 sort of agree sort of disagree. There is no doubt that frontal lobes take much longer than 18 years to develop particularly in men and as one neurologist once noted the non-dominant frontal lobe in men is like an ashtray on a motorbike seldom used and when it is not too much affect. But that said practically at some point we have to let most people be responsible for their own decisions based on their age. It seems to me that people who can join their country's military (or from time to time be forced to) and be harmed or killed for that decision at the age of 18 probably should be able to vote, drink, have consensual sex even if it is transactional, enter into contracts et cetera. It may not be perfect but it does seem equitable. I also agree that the decisions these people are making may and I do say may be because I'm not entirely convinced of it (in a long life I've never seen male sl&T shaming) have implications for them later in life. But if you get the chance wander around any spinal injuries unit you'll see that the vast majority of patients are male and the vast majority of those will have a story to tell you of the stupid decision that ruined the rest of their life. Risk-taking behaviour in young men is not confined to sexual activity. Finally I do recognise that Americans still have a thing about the English, that whole independence war thing, but please don't take it out on punctuation if you have to refer to me as yall can you at least make it y'all.

[@nikitaamerie]

exactly and soon people will know its all just buzz, theres no stopping her and its not wrong by law. No matter what argument of morals people bring up, it is irrelevant because the law permises it. And every argument also holds a double standard.

[@TheLeksilijum]

Let's flip this and say a heterosexual man decides to make porn where he has sex for the first time with cis women who never did it before by painting it as "free lessons for consensual sex" and helping them to understand pleasure, get to know their bodies and introduce them to sexual practices that feature "the right to care in sex". The power imbalance is what makes this wrong in any situation. Take gay men or lesbians doing the same. If the power dynamics aren't balanced - it is inherently dangerous.

[@thanatosjamie7663]

Mainstream companies already do this a lot. I'm not sure why people are framing this in a gender swap argument. The big industry players already do this and it's accepted within the industry. What Bonnie Blue does is similar but she tried to frame it as some kind of empowerment narrative. She still ends up with the same issues, skating by with the "it's technically legal" defence.

[@TheLeksilijum]

@thanatosjamie7663 I've never seen a porn that even pretended to put female pleasure in the center. It's always about the performance of the man.

[@Capyrass]

The participating males should require a percentage of each monetary stream. True contract gig economy. Profit sharing. Taking a share of valuation STOCK. 50/50. EQUALITY.

[@jbuchan12]

As Alice says, why was it automatically seen as a good thing for the men? They definitely thought it was a good idea. Well of course the men were up for it. But why? Many of the men i bet were there because they felt shame. Shame that they hadn't had a sexual experience before. Why as a society do we put that much expectations on these guys to have sex? In some cases the younger the better? Is it all evolutionary. It perhaps made sense thousands of years ago, but it certainly just causes problems now. Its been something i have thought about most of life. Thank you Alice, you are one of the only ones who have mentioned this, wonderful video as always.

[@swordierre9341]

Breaking news, men like sex.

[@hkszerlahdgshezraj5219]

"business"

[@MacNuada]

Yaaas gurls leave husbands, sell pics, you are so empowered and not pawns 😂😂😂😂

[@rmagnb6798]

If You Wanna somebody like her stop making more profit we must STOP talking about her, don't generated traffic for her,don't give them spotlight,don't give them platform , more you talking about them more profit they make from traffic

[@kaspershaupt]

11:16 is a insane image! What do you talk about in that line? So fucking weird.

[@kaplislemesis4789]

OF or others, as a whole neither is any good, but let time show the consequence

[@nurnoir]

Ngl it makes me so sad when this is only a controversy people talk about when barely legal boys are fetishised. There is a huge Reddit dedicated to men lusting over barely legal girls, like she said, school girls have been one of the most fetishised people in pornography. Yet it’s so normalised that no one cares

[@VaQm11]

Interesting 'conversation'.

[@ampgorky]

Good video thank u

[@steffen1405]

What's the 'peach industry'?

[@Alaskan-Armadillo]

One thing that also needs to be talked about more is how a lot of the analysis of sex work and porn is through a colourblind lens. Yes a poc can consent but the effect of having porn center around the idea that those of us who are poc are exotic or animalistic contributes to a lot of harm. I just get the impression that a lot of sex work has been taken over by white feminists who are more determined to make money then redfine labour.

[@Jamhael1]

Sexual fetishes are a thing because of the "exoticism" - look at your personal life, and look how many individuals of a different ethnicity you saw or lived with.

[@Otherlevel51]

They cant really defeat or put pressure on corn companies. Because that requires people to stop being lazy. Which if they ever did stop being lazy would put into question why they are doing onlyfans to begin with. A lot of the top onlyfans creators will get to this point of view where they are working so hard. But can't really be proud of there work or creation.

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.

[@dukes2116]

Nice presentation 🎉

[@ProfessorJones7]

Will your video about introversion be ready in the near future ?

[@AliceCappelle]

Gosh I hoped people had forgotten about it by now, it‘s filmed and everything but I need to rework on one segment :) thank you for the reminder though ahah

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

​@@AliceCappelleooh I loved Uplink!

[@adhiyabhat]

never been this early to a vid

[@RanjanRai-jr9on]

I don't know much about west also about the accents so it's a guess but are you French

[@raulphie937]

What's the name of the background music playing in the first 5 minutes?

[@nocturnus009]

With Project 2025 going after 🍑 it’s going to be a profound 2014 weeks ahead. 🍊

[@parkers3301]

you have to be 25 to rent a car

[@oliround]

The best part about being a conspiracy theorist is not having myocarditis

[@Otherlevel51]

Hey make your money just don't expect everyone to sign-off on it

[@azlxx9868]

Interesting!

[@vladimir.putinn_007]

Peak female performance 😂

[@Mr_T.]

Wow, glad to find a video that highlights an idea I was thinking of. That brothels and prostitution should be fully subsidized by the government so that anyone over 18 can access sex whenever. I believe this would make sex crimes, misogyny, harassment and other forms of sexual abuse go right down if people's (especially men's) sexual tensions were alleviated. It's less about rights, expectations and entitlement and more about physiological processes.

[@sarahg2653]

The taxpayer should provide free sex to whomever wants it? Nah man. I appreciate the thought. I agree with legalization. But the gov't has no resources of it's own. I can think of a million more worthy causes for tax money to go to; specifically, in the US, to healthcare. Or for basic infrastructure. Or education. Or anything other than sex. I don't know of any strong empirical data to support your thesis; that is, that freer access to sex could alleviate sex crimes and other forms of sexual abuse. Perhaps there could be an argument there if that were the case.

[@Mr_T.]

@@sarahg2653 I agree, a social experiment should be in order. As far as taxes are concerned, the government already funds programs aimed at reducing crime and promoting public health. If subsidized sex work demonstrably reduced sexual violence, it could be argued as a public safety investment, similar to how needle exchanges reduce disease transmission. The government already funds social services, mental health programs, and even subsidized entertainment in some cases (e.g., arts, sports). If sexual frustration contributes to harmful behaviors, addressing it could be seen as harm reduction.

[@timoapp7541]

I would recoment the word corn instead of peach 😅

[@JonathanSnyder-s8n]

Consent is needed! Well wait a moment… it has to be the right kind of consent! Continuing Consent or Enthusiastic Consent is coerced bc of gendered heteronormativity!? Societal expectations make consent problematic!? This is just another example that a woman is never satisfied… Stop! that is a gendered societal expectation that I didn’t consent to… ( this is sarcasm )

[@ttynorttyl]

What is the word she is calling this type of content? Pitch content? Peach content? Something else?

[@3zObafouzr]

1:34 top right

[@ttynorttyl]

​@@3zObafouzr Ahhh thanks, I was listening and not watching.

[@appa609]

Is this a French thing?

[@Big-boned_Pikachu]

​@@appa609 certain social media sites are possibly(I don't really know for sure) blocking or hiding content that uses certain words. People that make content on social media have sometimes started using code words to speak about sensitive topics so their videos don't get flagged or hidden from the algorithms

[@chthonianjellyfish2176]

Ngl besides the sexual predation that comes with seeking out barely legal teens for her videos and everything else wrong with her, you have effectively explored why Bonnie Blue is awful even through the lens she uses to justify her actions by pointing out her "acting partners" are not compensated for their participation. Every single angle of this Bonnie Blue event is unethical in some way and we as a society have enabled her success.

[@luxshampoo8520]

handmaid tale is story's of cute little whitegirls!

[@Jumanji-y9x]

The rhetoric around her interview in progressive spaces is bizarre. I think a lot of people across the gender spectrum understand, from experience, the failures of consent, as a construct. I’m not a lawyer or anything, but I’ve had encounters that I have felt shitty about, unsafe in, some that still affect me now, years later. It seems like “enthusiastic consent" overwhelmingly serves to protect the person receiving consent from the consequences of being a shitty, asshole sexual partner in some way. I think these boys went to have sex because they felt what a lot of people feel at that age: “I’ve got to get it over with and she’s a professional, so it’ll probably be amazing”. I think what they got was body shaming by both the person they were having sex with and commentators on the internet, and negative judgments of their character on the internet by professional content creators who have gotten good at progressive cosplay. The number of times I’ve seen a seemingly progressive content-creator’s response boil down to "because of her bad security, while doing her predatory, creepy behaviors, she is at an increased risk of being harmed by the teenagers she preys upon, and that’s really dumb of her” is disorienting. The politics of deciding whether to call them boys or men has been interesting. Personally, if you’re 18 and shaking while saying sex talk and giving consent, you’re a boy and the only person you should be having sex with is either yourself or a partner your own age.

[@ÍtaloResiå]

Or somebody you love independent of age, at 16 yo i was with a girl of 21 yo, the best i ever had.

[@chrisa5631]

Bonnie Blue is the product of feminism gone mad.