The Book Club: Middlemarch by George Eliot with Heather Mac Donald | The Book Club

Is a life of duty and self-sacrifice noble or ridiculous? What can 21st-century readers take away from Middlemarch, A Study of Provincial Life, one of the great English novels? Heather Mac Donald joins Michael Knowles for a discussion of George Eliot’s comprehensive tale of marriage, idealism, loyalty, and profligacy in a nineteenth-century English town.
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[@Andrew-uw5gz]

Heather’s enthusiasm is infectious. Great convo.

[@vollkenheimer]

What an oasis is to the desert, Heather Mac Donald is to intellectuals everywhere. One gravitates towards her lucidity as if it were the only life force left keeping us alive. A brilliant mind and national treasure.

[@Cavapoocuteness]

Middlemarch is my favorite literary fiction of all time.

[@davidbusby2550]

Great discussion. I've had a crush on this lady for years. Her intellect is astonishing.

[@carefulconsumer8682]

Excellent discussion. Thank you. George Eliot is one of my all-time favorites.

[@shannongal220]

I read this years ago and just again to refresh my memory. It's one of my favorite books for character study and why openness in meaningful relationships is so important.

[@osmosisjones4912]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoeUkmCJmdOAgcU

[@weepingcamel1]

Someday, I'm going to casually drop "This reminds me of Va Tosca of Te Deum in Puccini" in my conversation.

[@malina9070]

PragerU is so absolutley wonderful.

[@osmosisjones4912]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoeUkmCJmdOAgcU

[@malina9070]

@@osmosisjones4912 It says ur vid is unavailable

[@osmosisjones4912]

@@malina9070 I got a number wrong I fixed it

[@malina9070]

@@osmosisjones4912 oooh okey

[@malina9070]

@@osmosisjones4912 that's an awesome vid 👍🏻

[@edwardmiddlebrook5919]

Thank you for inviting Mrs. Mac Donald -- it is a pleasure to hear her speak on subjects she loves, she would be an inspiring professor of literature and music. This is what she's fighting for. This is what matters. The breadth of nuance and psychological insight in Middlemarch is breathtaking.

[@matloz100]

Read this last year. Its in my top three books of all time. Relatively easy read for a classic. Would highly recommend it!

[@smartass0124]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrFmoeDrbGBeac t=6s

[@maestrulgamer9695]

Duty and self-sacrifice are noble!You can't convince me otherwise!!

[@shawnboahene5231]

@Steven S I think you mean Dems they only live for the self and the flesh

[@johannakunze3300]

If you are honestly capable. If you just try but are secretly bitter and vengeful about it, it's more ruinous than open self-indulgence

[@Stevarooni]

They are noble, but you do still have to have your eyes open to be aware of when you're devoted to a sham.

[@Batterybus]

Nope those things are examples of White supremacy. Lol just listen to Rachel Maddow or Chris Cuomo.

[@sinrise5450]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIK9pIqujdFrmpo

[@sveatch40]

Five out of five stars! Please make these discussions an hour long. Half an hour is too short. Good stuff. Again, thank you Michael.

[@jojodogface898]

I got to page 84 in my edition today. I disembowled the book after a half an hour of trying to decipher whether "her case" refered to Mrs. Renfrew or Lady Chetham, or who was arguing for or against "strengthening medicines" or what the difference is between "strengthening medicines" and "homemade bitters"

[@einahsirro1488]

You know, some people say SPOILER ALERT ~before~ they tell you who dies and who ends up with whom. =) But I will add that I agree with Michael: Dorothea is wonderful. Her lack of judgment is excusable in light of how young and sheltered she is.

[@angiec9599]

Great discussion. I read the novel in college many years ago. Thanks for the Audible book recommendation. I will look for it!

[@SmithFamilyFarmstead]

I loooove these book clubs!!!💕

[@sherristewart1743]

Wow! Michael! that was a beautiful description of how to read and enjoy a book! "You have to LIVE it!" That's how I read and enjoy books, and that's why I still vividly remember "Middlemarch" after 30 years! And that's how I judge literature: If I can live there through the book. It's an experience that involves all the senses.

[@orwell2020]

I love The Book Club. I'm about to finish The Divine Comedy. Guess I will add this to my list.

[@hiramatangi1736]

Love Heather, she is awesome

[@deathlarsen7502]

Heather is incredibly intelligent and awesome. Her books are great as are all her lectures

[@staciemoose5850]

As much as I really didn't like the story , I really found your discussions about it quite fascinating

[@sandraelder1101]

Which story didn’t you care for or do you mean the whole novel in general?

[@annastrong6892]

It's been a month since this episode of the book club. I'm waiting impatiently for the next one!!! These are amazing.

[@gayleyee5723]

I very much enjoyed this discussion, both Michael and Heather are gems; I watched the BBC serial production of Middlemarch this past year, which was quite true to the text; I especially like Michael’s question at the end about interpretation of the book from the lens as a young college student fed the tropes of de-construction versus a more true personal understanding of after experiencing love and marriage and life as a more mature adult.

[@Aslanreturn]

What an awesome novel! George Elliott was one of the great British female writers of all time. I've read so many of her novels.

[@soniawillats4358]

So have I; years ago, plus a biography. I recall a pleading starting along the lines of : "oh father's of England, do not do this to your girl children..." I haven't read it for well over a decade, so not a direct quote. She was an amazing woman. I look forward to hearing this commentary.

[@stephendeluca4479]

Agree, but remove "British female" from your sentence and you'd be more to the point.

[@thomasgarlinghouse1445]

Heather Mac is a treasure! 😊

[@SavingCommunitiesDS]

It's great to see Heather outside of advocate mode and get a glimpse of her more nuanced values.

[@sherristewart1743]

I read Middlemarch in college about 30 years ago and I remember it vividly. For me it was one of those engrossing, convoluted plot-within-plot-within plot, etc., that was infuriating at times because you just wanted to shake Dorthea and yell "you can have happiness, too!!" yet I couldn't put it down. I personally LOVE 19th century literature! I loved all the Bronte works and I adore Dickens, whom I think is up there with Shakespeare in his ability to draw characters one will NEVER forget! I also am a HUGE fan of Poe and Hawthorne. Mark Twain, too. This is such a fun segment. But, for all that, Michael, I first heard of you through your interview with Dan Bongino!

[@leebaulch4182]

Love you Heather and Michael.....Middlemarch is the greatest of novels and Dorothea one of my favourite heroines...and yes she was so right to live her life of self sacrifice because she WANTED to....loving the awful Casubon was the joy she longed for! I was raised in a Victorian home with same values of work, duty and self sacrifice....so so grateful for the virtues instilled in me...I am 73 now and life is so fulfilling....love this novel and the creative genius who wrote it...wordiness and all.....📚❤️

[@Nordic_Sky]

Heather Mac Donald is A++++. I'll watch anything with her.

[@noexit4458]

Thank you for giving George Eliot and Middlemarch some attention! I can't for the life of me understand why there are so few adaptations of George Eliot's novels, while there are six hundred something versions of Pride and Prejudice--movies, mini series, you name it. You see a new Emma or Sense and Sensibility every other year. Is this truly accurately throwing into stark relief readers' interest in George Eliot's writing, which was once often the best-seller?

[@edolivmo]

Books are true rock and roll. 😇😎‼️🎊🎶❤️

[@sheilagibson982]

I agree with him about Dorothea and I think she and Will will live happily ever after!

[@polyhymnia701]

Same. So many people think Will is unreliable but I think he proved himself to her beautifully.

[@AlexanderMichelson]

Thanks, PragerU!

[@smartass0124]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrFmoeDrbGBeac

[@thomaspomeroy5678]

I would love to see the Book Paradise Lost with Anthony Esolen as the guest. He is writer for many periodicals, books on history, politics and education. And professor of Literature. I would love to hear Anthony Esolen on Paradise Lost.

[@kimmysophiabrown4807]

This is my favorite novel of all time. I adore Dorothea. Her heart and desire to serve others moves me immensely. Through the years I've re-read the last few paragraphs over and over....even if someone's grave is not visited, their good works, their hearts, and all those quiet unseen deeds they do ripple onward and outward. It means to me that every seen and unseen thing we do is so important, good or ill, we affect each other. Exactly what Michael read. I've cried and cried over those words. I loved the mini-series too. Juliet Aubrey and Rufus Sewell. Be still my heart. This is a great conversation, loved it. Thank you. I'm currently re-reading Middlemarch for my third time. First read at age 30. Now am 68. The theory of deconstruction is such nonsense, like many ridiculous theories being pedaled these days. Yikes. Literature is the deepest resource we have about who people were and are. Thank you so much for this conversation. God bless you both.

[@judyannrosso-llopart27]

I'm reading it for the first time at age 61. What took me so long? This novel is sooo wonderful, and George Eliot's prose is so funny!

[@sandraelder1101]

The 1994 miniseries is great too! Perfect for those times when you want to revisit Middlemarch but don’t have time for a reread. Very faithful to the book.

[@marktyrrell8892]

Fantastic talk on this great novel.

[@rolson1695]

I have only watched the movie (many times!), but listening to you two makes me want to go get the book and start reading!! Great discussion I loved listening to!

[@theresap2920]

Loved this book! Great discussion!

[@msjwilde]

Absolutely terrific discussion! 🎯 👀 👂 🧠 💭 📝 🔥📚🤓💘✨🤝✨ Thank you Michael and Heather! Can we have an encoreeee 😄

[@dachsiemomma1725]

I have this novel on my bookshelf, but I read two other novels by George Eliot and didn't like them. Thanks to Ms. MacDonald, I will give Middlemarch a chance.

[@lifescott9809]

Just finished the book. Heather’s observations are spot on. Am amazed to see this is on Prager U, for which I otherwise have no respect.

[@sandraelder1101]

Two other fantastic Eliot novels (and far less daunting) are Adam Bede & Silas Marner. Both are unforgettable reads with characters that stay with you long afterward.

[@JB-ti7bl]

Love love love the idea of Michael Knowles and a friend in a book club. ENVY! What book is next!?!

[@catjohnson007]

great discussion-- both were excellent!

[@EllenJohn4]

Loved this!

[@sabinelipinska8614]

Great discussion!

[@Frisbinator]

I read this book after watching this interview. It is a bit of a slog at times and I used a bit of Sparknotes as a crutch throughout. Overall it was very good. Very well written and realistic the way that the characters are portrayed and interact with each other. Especially when she describes Rosamond and how she approaches situations and looks at the world. Very realistic, highly recommended, just realize it does take some effort to get through like anything worthwhile.

[@sociallyhostileelement3425]

I've not read this, but it sounds like it has some themes in common with "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.

[@b.alexanderjohnstone9774]

Loved the book and waited to finish before watching this. Great chat - I don't know a soul who will read this to discuss with me! What should one read of hers next?

[@stephanieb2484]

I just love George Eliot

[@erynyoung3228]

Watching from here because the prageru videos on Daily Wire + are SUPER glitchy

[@newlywedbeth]

A lot of readers were so unforgiving of Eliot for not giving them a romantic ending for Will and Dorothea. I was one of them as a young idealist. Now that I'm married with a child, I get it.

[@alanaxstitcher8403]

This was awesome

[@wazzup233]

Hi Mike, could you do an interview of Jordan Belfort on his book, The Wolf of Wall Street in your show soon especially if you could ask him about the news on the GameStop mania and how the hedge funds got screwed on this. 😉

[@TheCraggym]

Eliot makes sympathetic cases for all the characters in the novel.

[@DNchap1417]

This reminds me of "Pride and Prejudice" meets anime...

[@fleurdrose5504]

I have read Middlemarch many times and enjoy it over and over. Good choice. However, Les Miserables by Victor Hugo is my most read book, the Julie Rose translation available on audible.com definitely get both. Reading with the audible brings a whole new enjoyment to the book. It is a compendium of human nature in all its good and evil manifestations and covers the history of the time comprehensively and compassionately.

[@seaslob2820]

O wow I had to read this in college

[@justincook181]

I am about to read this book. Should I wait until after I finish it before I watch this? Or will it enrich my reading experience to watch it before I read it?

[@matloz100]

I would read the book first. It’s hardly a page turner, but I suspect you’ll get more out of it not knowing how it ends

[@artvandelay4545]

It's almost always better to read the book first but in this case it probably does not matter. The book is so rich in character development with multiple stories going on at once. There is so much meat on this bone that you'll want to see the mini series too which is excellent.

[@kikiandco1899]

There isa spoiler so read the book.

[@alg11297]

This is a book you would only read if (a) it was assigned to you in h.s. or college or (b) you are a literature major and need to read every 19th century English book ever written. I tried to read Wuthering Heights on my own and had to reward myself each time I finished a chapter. These books have a style all their own and move along at pace slower than NYC traffic. The dialogue is totally unrealistic and the characters are forgettable. Their relevance to today's world? You got me.

[@arthurdevain754]

Reading books about people who are ruined through their own errors is kind of like watching an airplane streaking toward a mountainside. It is not something I care to do!

[@Dwarfmanvash]

Middlemarch is free on Hoopla.

[@OldEnglandCathedral]

cool

[@Kathrynlove]

Thanks for talking about this book. I never want to read it. It seems way to complicated...I think after hearing these books discussions. I'm going to keep listening to the Book Club discussions and never read the book.

[@eurekahope5310]

There is an episodic dramatization of this book by a British group (maybe BBC). It is absolutely worth the several hours to view.

[@katewilson7819]

It is so strange to see one of the most famous liberal novel's being discussed in this pseudo-intellectual conservative propaganda. To over-simplify this novel into a discussion of devotion and duty is to misunderstand the positions of each character. Dorothea wants to do good in the world, but can't because of her position in society, so she settles on helping a husband achieve that end. Eliot's final questioning of Dorothea's happiness is not a failure of Will as a man, but of society telling her that having a husband who listens to and respects her is the most in life she can hope for. Additionally, this video completely bypassed the most important part of the novel. [spoilers] The climax of the novel occurs when rumors about Lydgate's role in Raffle's death are met with Dorothea's immense capacity for empathy. She wishes to understand the perspectives and voices of others. Her response to rumors about Lydgate is simply that "people are nearly always better than their neighbors think they are" and "what is life for if not to make life less difficult to each other." She seeks Lydgate's perspective, tells his story, and risks her own happiness to achieve this end. In return, Eliot tells her story. Dorothea may rest in an unvisited tomb, despite being part of the "growing good of the world", but we, the readers, have come to understand that her story, her history, and the histories of those whose lives have been forgotten are important. It tells its readers to look beyond the traditional narratives to find those who have been left out. Ironically, the deconstructionism woefully misrepresented at the end of this video feeds very well into this point. Despite this video's claims, deconstructionism is not about dismissing context of a work, or claiming that we should not read books writing by white men. Instead, it seeks to understand structures that prevent one from seeing a broader truth. Many of the writings that built on Derrida, which this video describes as "the most insane literary theory," have used this theory to understand how perspectives have been lost and how we can regain those perspectives. In other words, the entire point of the novel.

[@sanniepstein4835]

Starting off with snark--"pseudo-intellectual conservative propaganda"--does not lend your words much weight.

[@lwilson282]

@@sanniepstein4835 I say pseudo-intellectual because pragerU consistently labels itself as a "university" despite having no academic accreditation. This stance is furthered by the complete misunderstanding of Derrida and deconstructionism. They say that this teaches readers to hate the books they read. They claim that deconstructionism is simply about ignoring the context of the work and its author. Neither is true. Instead, it teaches readers to think critically about the relationship between text and the context that created it, allowing readers to come to their own opinions about that process, whether they be positive, negative, or most often, nuanced. Actual intellectualism involves understanding and engaging with perspectives one disagrees with, not simply misrepresenting them, ridiculing them, and moving on as this video does with deconstructionism. (Ironically, even as they accuse deconstructionists of ignoring a novel's historical context, they are guilty of the same mistake. They simplify the complexities of the novel's view on marriage by praising Dorothea's sense of duty to the institution of marriage. Knowledge of Eliot's life seems to contradict this reading as for years she lived, unmarried, with a man who was separated from his wife. If she truly believed that one should submit to an unhappy marriage, she would not have supported that separation by living with Lewes.) Secondly, it is difficult to argue that pragerU is conservative. They say that they fight values on the left on nearly every platform. The reason I find their choice of Middlemarch strange is that it is a famously liberal novel. It takes place in the lead-up to the 1832 reform bill and was written in the context of another series of reform bills in the late 1860s and early 1870s, promoted by the Whigs, the liberal party. More generally, the novel's view of history as "the growing good of the world" is, almost by definition reflective of the whiggish view of history. Finally, my choice to use the term "propaganda" comes from the definition that "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." The purpose of pragerU is to present information with a conservative bias. As there website clearly states, they were founded in order to change people's minds about "leftist ideas," and give statistics for how many minds were changed. Their primary funding comes from conservative special interest groups that enjoy the ways in which this media influences people to vote for their causes. If that's not propaganda, I don't know what is. Stating this succinctly for the purpose of a KZbin comment is not snarky, it's just true.

[@KeithCindyPanama]

Save history it’s being erased and twisted!!!

[@thespaminator]

The author was in a relationship with a married man until the day the man died. Ironic that she had such a fixation on “duty.”

[@smartass0124]

Texas should buy bus Tickets to New York . For illegal immigrants. Its new York that voted for it

[@smartass0124]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrFmoeDrbGBeac

[@Pet.Wifey.Voice.Of.Reason]

Great review for a decent book.... Now do the Satyricon! Please, people? Please, please please, please, please....

[@SM-wc8ji]

I haven't read Middlemarch but just going by Heather's description of Dorothea, I think I wouldn't like her very much. To be so unaware of her on mind and feelings and to be so blind would just be extremely infuriating. It almost makes her seem stupid for someone who wants to live an intelligent academic life.

[@deirdreberger1363]

The Transportation Secretary wants a mileage tax on vehicles in addition to a gas tax. This would require a GPS in cars. So citizens traveling would be monitored! Oregon has a pilot program in effect.

[@gandalfthegrey7146]

We need The Lord of the Rings...

[@---wu3qj]

Heather said, “ Authors write because they want to explain human existence.” If this is the case, then it may be a good idea to understand their beliefs before reading their works. Before reading 800+ pages of a fictional work, look the author up, and see HOW THEY THEMSELVES LIVED, and WHAT THEY BELIEVED. In this case ,you may not want to get their perspective on life at all! It is hard for me to want to read a book by an author whose beliefs were so mixed up, and who lived in flagrant adultery! I don’t care how magnificent her descriptions are, or the genius of her work, if her own life was so bankrupt of TRUTH. Please be careful of what you put into your mind and spirit... you cannot take it out once you put it in.

[@reality8605]

I take it you're not a Biz Markie fan.

[@b4u334]

How the hell does he have time to do this and Daily Wire?

[@davidbusby2550]

And the podcast with Cruz

[@b4u334]

@@davidbusby2550 yes AND that!

[@b.alexanderjohnstone9774]

I felt it was clearly a woman writing from the first page but maybe it was because I knew George Eliot was a woman? Don't suppose anyone out there read it without knowing that ?

[@alg11297]

When are you going to review that real tomb (and I mean tomb) Atlas Shrugged. You libertarians could do a two parter on that one.

[@SHARKVADERS]

PU !!!

[@SHARKVADERS]

@Fed Rai You must stop eating your own excrement.

[@moldychicken8373]

first Like and First comment

[@aswd28]

First reply

[@moldychicken8373]

@@aswd28 noice one didn't think of that

[@merlinwizard1000]

32nd

[@Canada4Israel]

Yeshua, Jesus is salvation. Read Isaiah 52: 13 -53 all... again ....for the first time

[@meretchen]

Nice, upbeat commentary. But don't say "as a woman", you can only speak for yourself. And don't lump all the Brontë-sisters in with each other, when you clearly just mean Emily - and definitely not Anne.

[@meretchen]

Anyway, the most disastrous marriage in literature is Helen Graham to Arthur Huntingdon in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall. Which should be given as a confirmation gift to every girl ever, to caution them.

[@mikeywestside8509]

Hmmm

[@sslfharm]

What in the right wing cancer

[@pantonal]

Nerds.