The Book of Revelation Explained with Dr. Bart Ehrman

Bart Ehrman joins me to explain many of the mysteries in the Book of Revelation and to correct many of the misunderstandings we have about this book.
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[@InspiringPhilosophy]

Link to get your tickets: inspiringphilosophy.org/bigdebate/

[@anarchorepublican5954]

...if you don't want to wait until March, for Erhman's, more cynical work .....let me recommend two excellent scholarly commentaries written from a conservative biblical position ...but thoroughly Romano-historicist as to their approach to John's Apocalypse... 1. William Barclay's Daily Study Bible, Commentary for Revelation (which also includes his insightful Translation) ..Prof. Barclay's understanding of the Greco-Roman world, and culture is encyclopedic... 2. Homer Hailey's, Commentary on the Book of Revelation , Baker Book House...possibly the most scholarly Romano-Historicist Interpretation ever done by a conservative Christian...his arguments for a historical approach the apocalypse are very convincing...Dr. Hailey's knowledge of all the Old Testament references, are overwhelming (I made the point of looking up every single reference) ... Between these two works...prepare to have the mysterious Apocalypse...and all its Signs ...completely (and satisfactory) revealed in their clear historical and Biblical context.....you'll never go back to Hal Linsey or Jack Van Impe...ever again...

[@Archangel657]

Would you think that a scribe wrote Revelations in Johns name?

[@jippedgamer9723]

You do realize bart is often flat out lying simply to try to sell more of his books, right?

[@Seven_1865]

@@jippedgamer9723 do you have examples?

[@philippaul6039]

PLEASE reach out to James White. He'd be a incredible guest!

[@UncensoredChristian]

For everyone who is mad at IP for not challenging Ehrman let’s take a second to recognize that Ehrman is a scholar who has devoted his life to this work and IP has not devoted his life to this particular form of scholarship. What can we honestly expect IP to argue or ask that Ehrman wouldn’t have had an answer for? If our faith in Christ is justified then listening to opposing views shouldn’t shake us. Great video!

[@jesusyeshua4665]

IP speaking about the book of revelation at 6:35 "why do you think peoples today try to make this about the futur" so IP believe the book of revelation is not about the futur! even though the book of revelation is literally talking about the end times and the mark of the beast. go read the book of revelation yourself. guys there is no middle ground you cant believe conspiracy theories about the books of the bible promote lies and call yourself a christian, it's either you are a christian and you act like one or you leave the faith there is no middle ground in this you have to choose. if you want to believe lies about the books of the bible stop calling yourself a christian you're not a christian.

[@misterbobby8913]

...after watching this video...I am now in a hole of doubt. I'm seriously flabbergasted. And in confusion now. IP saying sternly that the book of revelations is about the past and not the Future and hearing Bart talk and IP in agreement. Well....I'm now questioning alot of things......I was not expecting this to have happened. People claiming that Followers of Christ were so disillusioned when romans destroyed jerusalem in 70 A.D. and that Christ never came back....does this mean that honestly Christ didn't fulfill what he said?? Why would Christ tell them that in their lifetime they would see him return? Wow.... can't believe I'm the one now writing this.....before watching this video I was a super Hard Christian. My world has been rocked. 😬

[@LaymensLameMan]

@@misterbobby8913 I will say this. In a time where Christian’s were persecuted and slandered with no financial gain do you really think what they believed in had no substance? Some of those people were alive to see Jesus. I don’t mind the interpretation of the book of revelation to be for the past and not future as the Bible has always had a contemporary application to our modern sentiments. I would encourage you, do not lose faith. As Tim Keller says, I might be paraphrasing, “We put our faith in an air tight person not an air tight idea.” Facts and ideas are always subject to change and therefore our perspectives. But Christ will remain forever. As to what Yahweh chooses to reveal about himself to us that our perspective might change is all in his hands. God bless brother.

[@wesleybasener9705]

Well said,

[@jesusyeshua4665]

ehrman is not a scholar , it's because he has the title scholar attached to his name that people respect him. otherwise nobody would care. the fear of men is what is the problem. ehrman is ignorant and not lead by God. wake up stop idolizing satan childrens because they have become famous and read church history.

[@luvtowrstle]

Personally, what most people don't realize is that the book of Revelation is like most of the Bible. It talks of the past, present AND future. It's intertwined within the conversation.

[@maddog47g]

The Old Testament is most of the Bible..

[@s9523pink]

Agreed, with past present and future being intertwined. John is seeing our reality from an eternal perspective, a timeless place, in that respect it makes sense and adds, for me, credence to what is being testified to.

[@maddog47g]

@@s9523pink sheeeeesh!!! Never thought about it like this.

[@s9523pink]

@@maddog47g , yup...it sure helped me, and helps me, when I read Revelations...if it were sequential ok, but what would our 3 dimensional reality look like from a totally different higher dimension not at all effected by a past, a present, or a future. In the book of Judges, Elijah and Elisha, are being chased by King Ahab and Queen Jezebel’s army and get surrounded. But Elijah is not afraid because He can see the Army of the Lord encircling that army, but Elisha looks at him as if he’s nuts...because he sees nothing! But Elijah prays for Elisha’s eyes to be opened and when they are, Elisha see what’s always been there. It’s all around us and we get glimpses of it and think it’s something else, because it is transcendent and very present and quite outside our concept of reality.

[@maddog47g]

@@s9523pink I have not got that far into the New Testament! I’ve read Mark and Matthew. Looks like I have more to look forward to.

[@RickDelmonico]

To understand Revelation, you must have a good understanding of the rest of the Bible.

[@thelordsdayministry2026]

True. I wrote a book putting Scripture thru out the Bible together like a jig saw puzzle to give you a clear picture of Revelation. Links in about section at The Lord's Day Ministry channel. Also videos about rapture and more.

[@jeremiah5319]

At the very least, an understanding/study of the O.T. prophets is essential to understand Revelation.

[@lorenioooooas]

Revelation/apocalypse is more about liturgy than predictions. It's funny that people obssess about predictions here when maybe only 10 percent is really about eschatology. Most of it is about the spiritual realities of heaven and the heavenly worship.

[@olavurksnadal1837]

LOL

[@esthertrouton417]

Especially the old testament.

[@user-zs3vd5np2s]

It's so amazing to see the mutual respect between these two people, despite their huge disagreements. I'm sure IP interviewed the most infamous critic of Christianity on purpose here - To show how we can learn even from an atheist professor, and build bridges even with critics :)

[@HarryNicNicholas]

yep you got it, and erman is promoting his upcoming money maker, they both just ooze integrity, right?

[@user-zs3vd5np2s]

@Gil Yair Yamin It’s just the name Genghis Khan was born with. Long ago, when I chose my account’s name and was young and stupid, I thought that would be cool. Now I’m stuck...😅 It’s pronounced Tamuchin Burjigin, I think, though I’m not sure...

[@user-zs3vd5np2s]

@Gil Yair Yamin כי אני ישראלי אחי ;)

[@AdamAlbilya1]

@Gil Yair Yamin חחח גם אתה הגעת לפה מדאג?

[@miroslavmatijevic6185]

I don't think that IP is a Christian by first century standards

[@MichaelStratton1993]

I like Bart Erhman but he stated that no one interpreted the Book of Revelation as speaking of future events until the French Revolution, where does he get this idea from? He’s an expert on Antiquity but doesn’t he know that the earliest commentaries on Revelation such as Hippolytus of Rome and his teacher Irenaeus of Lyons both believed that events of Revelation was suppose too happen after the fall of the Roman Empire. Later in the 5th century the Idealist interpretation was made popular by Augustine but there were still many who believed it too be speaking of future events, such as Andrew of Caesarea’s commentary on Revelation.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

I just got my copy of that. Looking forward to reading it.

[@RealCaptainAwesome]

Yeah, he likes to gloss over and dismiss things that don't fit his pre conceived ideas. If he makes it seem like a modern idea then he can just ignore it

[@IamGrimalkin]

He also seems to have thought that "wars and rumours of wars" came from Revelation, rather than the Gospels. The idea that Revelation is about the past is perfectly respectable (although I disagree), but Ehrman makes some surprisingly basic mistakes for someone who's supposed to be writing a book on it. Hopefully he'll have brushed up a bit more by the time he's finished his book.

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

He’s just outright lying. I know for a fact that Thomas Aquinas interprets it in as talking about the future. And there are many Church Fathers who do this as well.

[@troelsvestergaard6644]

@Darren The mind thing is a bad thing when your goal is to be rational😂😂

[@AveChristusRex]

The argument that Revelation was written in 'bad' Greek completely ignores the genre of Jewish Greek, i.e. that Greek which is (deliberately/necessarily) pervaded with Hebraistic usage of the language, due to tendencies to favor the Semitic rather than Hellensitic influences of the culture, or simple inability to make use of native Greek, depending instead on readable Greek intended for Jewish/Semitic audiences, or at least written by a Semite. I can't believe 'Greek scholars' are still saying stuff like this.

[@MichaelStratton1993]

You also got too think, Revelation was said too be written when John was in exile while his Gospel and Epistles were said too be written after he returned too Ephesus when he would of likely had scribes available too help him write in a more coherent Greek

[@gamerjj777]

@@MichaelStratton1993 ya thats a possibility.

[@evangeliumproductions3856]

Nice seeing a trad catholic here

[@AveChristusRex]

@@MichaelStratton1993 Excellent point, actually.

[@michaelparsons3007]

Bart Errorman

[@5BBassist4Christ]

Early in the video, Dr. Ehrman said the prophetic interpetation began in the 1800s, but then later he said the Protestant Reformation viewed the beast to be the Pope. But the Protestant Reformation happened a couple hundred years before the time stated for the beginning of the belief the book was prophetic. Did I miss something?

[@leonmajcen2577]

Yeah. He is contradicting himself and saying secular myths

[@Frodojack]

There was also a belief that the end of the world would arrive in the year 1000. Later, the Mongol invasions and the Black Death also led to a belief of the end of time.

[@js1423]

@@leonmajcen2577 I think he means by “prophetic” the modernist, Left Behind-view (Antichrist rules global NWO, Israel in 1948, technology-based Mark etc) of the End Times, which IP seems to reject as well. Christians have viewed many things before the 19th century as signs of the end (rise and conflict with Islam, plague, protestant reformation, 30 years war)

[@sukka4pain]

@@leonmajcen2577 What a charitable interpretation!

[@moderncaleb3923]

@@sukka4pain just a blunt way of saying he was mistaken.

[@mrsapostate]

I am not a Christian, but I appreciate your content, IP! 👍I came across your content a few years ago when I was considering Christianity again.

[@TheLordpeanuts]

Yeah, I think he posed a really compelling case for theism when he debated against Apostate Prophet and, in my opinion, totally showed him what was what.

[@Reignor99]

Same, as an agnostic with a passion for theology, IP is one of my favorite apologists.

[@knowledge_lantern]

Are you like your husband an under cover missionary 🤣🤣

[@Reignor99]

@Darren It's not sensuality, vain imagination, or specious mysticism that causes me not to believe. In fact I'd say one of those is the reason you DO believe.

[@lil-al]

@Darren A lot of people earnestly seeking truth realise that christianity is not it. It fails at every level. You would realise this if you actually cared about truth.

[@wilkiebunkers1352]

Really good stuff man. Thanks for having this conversation.

[@belialord]

14:53 Thank you for asking that question Michael, as a former JW it's very nice to see a scholar address this

[@fandude7]

While I do believe the book of Revelation is about future events, I really enjoy this channel and support IP financially. Thanks Michael

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Yeah I do too.

[@kieransoregaard-utt8]

You’re wrong. Read the book.

[@kieransoregaard-utt8]

@@pleaseenteraname1103You’re wrong. Read the book.

[@sofidofie]

@@kieransoregaard-utt8I have read it , if it’s not about the future, what is about?

[@kieransoregaard-utt8]

@@sofidofie you read Dr. Ehrman’s book? I don’t think so because if you did, you wouldn’t be asking this question.

[@eastonradio]

This is fantastic. Thank you!

[@Eraktab]

I think the comment sections "interesting" is a good word. He's a scholar for sure but a highly refuted one. Will at minimum be interesting to hear though

[@jesusyeshua4665]

inspiring phylosophy didn't challenged any of his lies , when bart ehrman said that the bible is not the inherent word of God he said nothing. when bart ehrman said the author of the gospel of john is not the author of the book of revelation he said nothing.He didn't challenged any lies that Bart ehrman said.

[@jesusyeshua4665]

next time let's invite an hindu or a witch to talks about the history of the new testament and promote their books as well. i mean inspiring phylosophy literally promoted the book of bart ehrman about revelations right at the begginning of his video. it's like promoting the book of a witch basically, ehrman wrotte severals books of lies to discredit the bible and "inspiring phylosophy" promote his book and accept all the lies of bart ehrman. can we have a satanist next to give us some knowledge about the bible next? what do you think guys?!

[@monotheist..]

indeed bible is not coherent book its an eclactic book they sometimes use septuagint and sometimes use masoratic which is corrupted, septuagint also have vast differences and error, new testament also have variants and interpolation in early ages seems like unpreserved and unfinished job until scholars selected which is original word centuries later, we believe god is created fine tuned universe as detailed as molecules there are no maverick molecules that escape god, now with all this great details and fine tuned universe which need to be in balance of matters to be sustained, why the bible is not as perfect as that? why scholars are in quest for the perfect bible?

[@monotheist..]

even in modern translation like NET bible and NRSV bible for representative they have deliberate change of translation see 2 Samuel 21:19

[@fdsajfldaskjf]

@@jesusyeshua4665 Philosophy*

[@Outof...Context]

Good interview, Dr. Erhman is a big deal! Keep up the great work 👍

[@TrevorDowns007]

Great work as usual!

[@noahfletcher3019]

Great video IP. Thanks for practicing the principle of charity and letting Bart Ehrman speak without trying to refute.

[@jesusyeshua4665]

oh no inspiring phylosophy even liked the comment (i hope the guys that post this is not a christian ) . like you guys openly mocks God now no more hidding , you even have created a new concept to let the ennemies of christianity lie as much as they want about the bible " the principle of charity ". i quote " Thanks for practicing the principle of charity and letting Bart Ehrman speak without trying to refute." and IP liked this ! mind blowing like the pervertion is getting worst now no more hidding let's fight against God and make a mockery of God with the ennemies of the faith, but even worst, you have a new concept in order to not challenge the lies of the ennemies of the faith about the bible when you invite them ! let them discredit the word of god it's the "principle of charity" the goal is to make the biggest mockery of God right?

[@jesusyeshua4665]

noah fletcher are you a christian?!

[@noahfletcher3019]

@@jesusyeshua4665 yes

[@noahfletcher3019]

@UC7Qi4sHMG42eQb8TKPWPpOA No I didn't say that. Quote me, go on. I'm a christian don't be silly.

[@dashingtherouxthesnow4017]

@@jesusyeshua4665 your aggressive comments are just proving why Christians get such a bad name. Ehrman is an excellent scholar and to dismiss him and attack everyone who listens to what he has to say, purely because he's not a Christian, is utterly ridiculous. You'll win nobody over with your attitude.

[@kingndanorth]

Already but not yet. It's hard to understand but it's the correct way to look at revelation in my opinion.

[@YahshuaMessiah777]

The beast with 7 heads and 10 horns coming up out of the waters, multi-headed means political, singular is religious (being the anti-christ which is Satan). 7 dominions throughout the earth, 10 kings/world leaders, the waters are the people expecting to be raptured, for it will be as in the days of Noah, those who are taken abide under God's wrath. False messiah comes 1st in Rev. 12 Satan and the fallen angels will be cast to earth, he is the son of perdition (perdition means to be put to death, he is the only 1 who has already been judged). The harlot, the woman spoken of is that great city Babylon, babel=confusion (Satan is the author of confusion), God said "to come out of her. It's not until the son of perdition, after the 2nd woe, on the 7th trumpet is when Jesus returns, the Lord's Day (that 1000yr period, the day John was taken to, even past where were at now), when Jesus returns the dead will rise and we will all (meaning everyone to have ever lived) be in the spirit. Yeshua Messiah will reign here on in the new Heaven in the earth till the Great White Throne judgement, then Satan will be let loosed a little while because God is fair and everyone will have a chance and they will be tested by him and some will still even then choose to follow/worship Satan. God is that consuming, you don't burn in Hell forever and ever, your name is blotted out, no longer existing, period, all souls return to whenst they came. The mark of beast in the forehead are those without the seal of God in their foreheads (meaning the truth), the mark on their hand are those doing the work of the beast, not a tattoo of 666 or a computer chip implanted. The 1st beast received a deadly wound on 1 of it's heads, a disagreement via the supernatural entity being Satan when he is cast out of Heaven entirely will come to solve the problem (world peace), no nations to wage war against 1 another we/they will all be as 1, a 1 world rule, under Satan (the beast system). The religious beast who was out of the earth (dust/ made flesh) and cast to the earth, the anti-christ isn't a man, it's Satan (looks like a lamb, spake like a dragon). He exercises all the powers of the 1st beast (to take advantage, coming to make peace), and when the dragon healed the wound of the 1st beast, all worshipped it (trample like cattle). Churches will become the harlot and whore after her, and oh how so difficult it will be to speak/preach against peace/ the wound was by the sword and it is truth, for they/ the world will hate you/us for standing on God's Word till the end. Satan uses men, the churches will do the work for him, they'll think your preaching against Jesus, our Messiah to come. Amen.

[@12345shushi]

People seem to ignore the original 2nd temple context of the title "Anti-Christ" which isnt about Roman Emperors who were just beasts (just like the Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, etc), but rather a pretend messianic figure, someone who seems to fulfill messianic roles and prophesies, which is where Ehrman, preterists, and the majority of christians misinterpret the theological significance and import their anachronistic interpretations

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

what 2nd temple texts talk about this?

[@12345shushi]

@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The New Testament, 2nd Temple literature apocrypha (about who the messaiah was), Old Testament prescedence of what the messianic figure would look like. To clarify, I'm not saying that there is this non-biblical text that talks about the Anti-Christ, or "Anti-Moschiach" (notice it doesn't mean Anti-Jesus, as Christ is the same thing as Moschiach/Messaiah). What I'm saying is that the original understanding of Anti-Christ, shouldn't be divorced from the 2nd Temple original context and understanding of Messaiah, Messianic Prophecies, Messianic Qualifications, etc (that is to say, the Anti-Christ is an immitator of these things, why else would the New Testament authors use this title when reffering to this specific enemy?)

[@Soonerking]

However, imposing that interpretation is problematic due to the first-century context of the book of Revelation. Either way, you must assume the first-century timing and then find your 2nd temple-related Anti-Christ within that roughly 40-year period between the resurrection and 70 CE. The persecuting High Priest in Jerusalem would be one of the two Beast in Rev 13. See www.preteristcentral.com/pdf/pdf%20books/1849_lee_inquiry-prophecy_complete.pdf

[@12345shushi]

@@Soonerking there's actually parallelisms with the High Priests and Popes, which I believe will also take place in the future through ecumenism/nostra aetate, since the Beast of the Land in Daniel is the False Prophet in Revelation, but I agree that the Jewish High Priests who persecuted the Prophets of Old, were curropted and were false prophets as well (part of the Beast of the Land system - cueropted elite religious institution), I think preterism is half right, but the other half is still future (we're obviously not living in the millenial kingdom, Satan and the Anti Christ, False Prophet and Beast System havent yet been defeated), I take the already but not yet view, where Revelation will be like Genesis 1 and 2, where there will be a repeat with similar themes but Christ's Kingly/Davidic rule is still to come.

[@Brickeh]

This will be interesting for sure. I think atheist Bible scholarship is a good way to try and get a proper understanding of the text without reading modern theology back into the original documents. No one's perfect but both sides coming together certainly are less biased than one side doing all the work

[@heavnxbound]

Definitely agreed :)

[@blunelson8226]

I agree.

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

Yep. People seem to forget God uses everyone, even his enemies, to do his will even if they dont know it. Its the fact that many atheist scholars and historians DO agree with much of the historicity of the events surrounding Jesus' death and resurrection that make it so compelling.

[@charlesmaeger9542]

IP, appreciate hearing from an educated man on The Book of Revelation.

[@carlknaack1019]

This was interesting. However, I don’t see a conflict between viewing Revelation as both symbolic and about the future. It is not a literal verse by verse of the future, yet it does appear to show things yet to come, by taking soteriology to its fullest. And it is somewhat of a misnomer to say that the Brits first significantly read Revelation as prophecy. There were large groups since the Church Fathers who took it as something more than just a lesson, while it is mainly a lesson, even throughout the Middle Ages. Regardless, this discussion is very important, and I am always glad when someone talks about Revelation and they get the Mark of the Beast right. Ps. Dr. Licona spoke about Mark, and Dr. Ehrman spoke about the Mark of the Beast.😁

[@RealCaptainAwesome]

Yeah the doctor really likes to broad brush things then nitpick details when it suits his needs.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Well the 666/number of the name simply refers to a census number listed under the head of a family name rather than listing every single name as in the book of NUMBERS conducted by Moses and Aaron when mustering an army and allotting the land (also in the time of Nehemiah with an example using the same number 666) - which will reoccur when the ‘ingathering’ being planned in Israel today by the diaspora ministry finally happens. The prophesy of the mark of the name is an old testament reference to the Sinai covenant marriage where the congregation are sealed in the hand and forehead with the name of the Lord in the covenant marriage, as the wife takes the name of the husband in marriage. This is symbolized by the tefillin worn by observant Judeans over the hand/forehead marked with the name Shaddai which is the Holy Spirit. The rabbis are awaiting the prophet Elijah to return to renew the old covenant and law and altar and temple, etc - this answers to the false prophet/second beast of Revelation 13. I have deep studies on my blog linked atop my channel too lengthy to post here on these things.

[@vedinthorn]

Not gonna lie, I don't really respect his ability to interpret scripture seeing as he's a guy who says Mark has a low christology among other things. Getting the right reading from manuscripts is one thing, but getting the meaning from them is another.

[@jakejerrison5181]

Lol. So you’re scared of facts being presented that dismantle your dogma?

[@vedinthorn]

@@jakejerrison5181 I very much doubt he'll have much to say about dogma. In truth I don't care about escatology at all. It bores me and I find it useless to speculate. That said, no, I'm not scared of anything. I just question his ability to interpret texts of all kinds.

[@vedinthorn]

@@jakejerrison5181 I mean, seriously, Mark has a VERY high christology, and anyone who actually vests any time into studying the matter can see it, but for some reason Erhman thinks Mark would be surprised to find anyone reading his Gospel and coming away with the belief that Jesus was God. It's right there plain as day as even IP knows. Again, if I'm confused about a variant reading I'd have no problem going to Erhman to sort it out. But if I want to know if we should baptize by emmerssion or sprinkling, I'd avoid him since that's not really his expertise.

[@jakejerrison5181]

@@vedinthorn You’re an apologist and that makes me question your capacity for seriously interpreting the text of the Bible. I’ll trust a scholar over an apologist, because a scholar has the resources and knowledge to use in perusing the text, which apologists don’t have and refuse to use to their advantage. When you deny basic facts about the Bible, you’re denying basic facts about your faith and disgracing your own book. That’s the essence of danger to which apologism leads, and it is a very irksome current of thought. I’m confident Ehrman has a greater understanding of Revelations than you because, simply put, he has put in the work to critically investigate the text and the data surrounding it. I can’t say the same for an apologist, whose only intentions are to distort the text (at their leisure!) to fit their narratives, which is a sneaky and unacceptable thing to do.

[@jakejerrison5181]

@@vedinthorn No. The fact is, neither Paul nor any of the Gospel writers believed that Yeshua was an Elohim of any kind. Paul seemed to have believed (though his authorship is questioned!) in Galatians 4:14 that Yeshua was a divine messenger of God, like the Angel of the LORD found in the TANAKH. In other words, Paul believed that GOD spoke through Yeshua and that Yeshua became the Word (i.e., a Son of Adam was to be adopted by God as His most faithful subject). This is a lot of exaltation, but no where is it found that Yeshua is God because nobody believed this at the time. Neither Yeshua, nor the Disciples, nor even any of the authors of the texts we call the Bible believed this. Of course, views of Yeshua changed overtime and eventually, nefarious actors came to say he was literally God or even Yahweh Himself, but this did not become the mainstream view until centuries after the martyrdom of the Christ. Still, the trinitarians called any conflation of Yeshua and Yahweh to be heresy (e.g., Sabellianism), and this is the greatest mistake that so-called trinitarians make today.

[@sethcaro]

Rev. 1:19: Write therefore the things: -Which you have seen -Which are -Which shall take place after these (or about to take place). I think it’s both the things that were clear for the reader at the time and things that would happen in the future.

[@eeeddddddiiieee]

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.” ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2:14-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@Denise0752]

@Eddie Vasquez; Amen! The natural man is spiritually dead. This is why he has no spiritual discernment. Until he is born again in Christ, indwelled with the Holy Spirit, he will not understand. "However, when He , the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth”.

[@madmanjim795]

I appreciate the input of all scholars on this topic - great interview IP! I am actually open to revelation describing past events but also describing future events. The biggest question mark in my head with Rome being the beast system is that it didn't fulfill all the criteria of being the beast system. Also, repeatedly in the OT specific place names are given when referring to the 'end times', which are all middle east centric (most of which are in modern day Turkey). Keep such great content coming out IP!

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Revelation 11.8 and 17.5,18 make plain that Jerusalem is indeed spiritual Babylon: And their dead bodies will lie on the street of *THE GREAT CITY* which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified._ (Rev 11.8). _The woman [Babylon per 17.5] whom you saw is _*_THE GREAT CITY_*_ which reigns over the kings of the earth._ (Rev 17.18). Even the Babylonian Talmud compares Israel with Babylon, go figure. The harlot is also described in the colors and jewels describing the Levitical high priest’s garment colors and jewels on the breast-piece. I cover these things in my last video which I think you will find interesting, *The Antichrist Kingdom for Dummies*

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

I’m not a Catholic but the militant Jesuit Order was founded by false convert Judeans (see academic work of Judean scholar, Robert Maryks’, Jesuit Order as a Jwish Synagogue). The Vatican was long ago infiltrated by the Frankists, like the Sabbateans infiltrated Islam (which seems to have been invented by talmudic rabbis as a proxy to keep Christianity from spreading and taking over the ME). The Vatican has openly capitulated to the so-called Zionists since Vatican II and Nostra Aetate, and reversed many ancient traditions at their request. The current pope even endorsed Sabbath keeping to the delight of the rabbis.

[@jesusyeshua4665]

ehrman at 4:49 "peoples thought it was not john the disciple that wrotte the book of revelation" it's a lie and IP let him say that. Guys please wake up what's next inviting a witch and let her insult jesus ? i mean we are almost there please kindly wake up

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

There is only one city in the world located on 7 hills - it's Rome. Revelation is a false prophecy whose purpose was to bring comfort and hope to the suffering Christians who were persecuted by the Roman Empire at the time of Nero. It has nothing to do with our time or the far future. Only lunatics believe that the end is at hand. The future might actually be very bright and the end will realistically come only after millions of years when the Sun explodes. But by that time we'll probably be able to migrate to other galaxies so we might still survive. So, eat, drink and be merry! There are no end times, and there is no afterlife. Make the most out of life while you can.

[@lazymaverick5118]

Im so glad i came across your videos again. Appreciate your work so much!

[@noahfletcher3019]

I am a Christian and while I obviously don't agree, I love to hear a qualified person like Bart Ehrman speak on these things. He's probably my favorite anti-christian scholar.

[@ThePoliticrat]

Anti-Christian?

[@noahfletcher3019]

@@ThePoliticrat yeah i think that's what he is

[@ThePoliticrat]

@@noahfletcher3019 I think he is just agnostic

[@HarryNicNicholas]

persecuted much?

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@noahfletcher3019 He's you favorite cuz he many times debunked, look for a secular schoolar with more solid arguments that doesn't get dragged into the news as often.

[@sidtom2741]

Ehrman would’ve made an amazing apologist. Despite devoting his work to NT criticism, he is one of my most beloved and admirable skeptics I’ve watched, next to Jeff Lowder and Jordan Peterson

[@NotChinmayi]

Jordan is a christian

[@sidtom2741]

@@NotChinmayi how do you figure?

[@vareshkumar8853]

@@sidtom2741 He said it himself

[@sidtom2741]

@@vareshkumar8853 Considers himself Christian in a certain sense. But then proceeds to wish Islam and Judaism were also true along with it.

[@vareshkumar8853]

@@sidtom2741 He still clearly says that he believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not just wishes for it to be true. He does wrestle with the idea from what he says, however.

[@giorgirazmadze5102]

IP is such an unbelievable channel ‼️ May Jesus Christ bless you brother 💕

[@readingbetweentheframes]

This is actually why I listen to this channel. It’s so important to hear the other side. Erhman is not an enemy, rather someone who is asking the hard questions that every Christian should be able to answer.

[@choosen1130]

Thanks for this video but I wish it was longer !!

[@zachtbh]

Interesting that a Christian and an atheist can have a honest dialogue dispite not sharing the same view. But it's very hard to have a honest dialogue if it is with a Muslim.

[@blue99i]

I would love to see you interview Ehrman for longer on another topic. Also, is there any book you recommend reading for understanding Revelations?

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

The best thing to read/study to understand Rev is the entire old testament. Tel aviv trolls push its fulfillment in 70 ad and/or Rome as Babylon to cover the plan Israel is pursuing like no tomorrow.

[@MountainFisher]

Revelation not RevelationS. Was written before the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70.

[@2367J]

Shawn McCraney

[@davidgustafson-td6ru]

I am a born again, spirit filled Christian. I have no other God except Jesus. I have no hope except for Him. It breaks my heart that Bart identifies himself as an agnostic. Bart is a scholar. His early contributions to academia are significant. Hopefully his bad philosophy will encourage us to be better stewards of God's word instead of passively accepting whatever we hear. Its ok to listen to Bart and be upset by his doctrine. Now is the time to accept the challenge and dig deep into scripture. Now is the time to make God's word more precious than your daily bread. Pray for Bart, right now he is Saul, pray that Jesus would touch his heart and create a Paul.

[@Magnulus76]

Thank you for interviewing Dr. Bart Ehrman and being fair to him, he's a great biblical scholar. Too many Christians hold his atheism against him and don't consider the merits of his scholarship, even though it's not that different from the general consensus of mainline Protestant scholarship in general.

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

Magnulus76, isn't it true that he used to be a born-again Christian, but he chose to become an apostate and and now leads people away from Christ?

[@MichaelStratton1993]

I find him arrogant and condescending at times but he is a great scholar and author and it’s hard too hate a guy who donates all his profits too Charity.

[@christiang4497]

I think his scholarship is admirable. What I don't respect is he doesn't do enough to distinguish between his scholarship and his personal opinions in his popular work. This can be misleading. The other thing is that although he's a phenomenal textual critic, he doesn't seem to be all that strong of a theologian. Not the go-to guy for understanding scripture as a whole, but good for understanding its words (not sure if this makes sense).

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

@@christiang4497, I've learned that it's hard for believers to understand the mysteries of God. Apostates don't stand a chance.

[@samueljennings4809]

@@christiang4497 To be fair, Dr Erhman was never a theologian to start with, his focus was always about history and manuscript evidence, from what I gather.

[@AveChristusRex]

So much for all the fathers who interpreted Revelation as speaking of the end times antichrist.

[@TheLionFarm]

You believe a atheist to tell you prophecy? 2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

[@EternalVisionToday]

😁 Right! Lets throw out serious Church fathers who knew Revelations was about the future and accept the snide rumblings from this former religious person with a major axe🪓 to grind.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@bobloblaw4102 The authorship was literally - literally - never not known, or questioned, except for books originally not ascribed, such as Hebrews (which nonetheless were more or less by consensus ascribed to St. Paul, especially in Liturgy, one important source of tradition). This is a fantasy conspiracy theory, not history or scholarship - 'muh anonymous books.' Literally every copy we have of any book in question that's relevant (i.e. is not a fragment without a heading or anything more than a passage or two) has the "according to [author]" part on its heading. Besides this, literally every work that mentions these books ascribes it to whom we do. More than this, these works were disseminated so far and wide, and so early, that the agreement in ascription can only point to the originality or reality of such. The only reason to question it would be out of spite for the unanimous, world-wide ascription. So put to rest the 'muh anonymous books' argument. It's cringe, fake, and gay. Regardless of what 'muh scholars' say (the same scholars who literally only date Matthew to after the Temple was destroyed because Jesus predicted the Temple was destroyed - explicitly, as part of their dating method). Second, the entire corpus - volumes upon volumes you could never read in a lifetime - of the early Church literature constitutes a witness of so many persons that they can't be counted, not just in one place, but all over the Empire, of what was believed not only in their day, but, by a succession of bishops and writings, the Apostles and their disciples - including writings that pre-date some books of the New Testament. Literally the only reasons one would doubt the New Testament/Church Fathers' witness, is because of bias against the message, not against the reliability of the message. You simply can't argue against the consistent transmission from Apostles, to sucessors, to bishops, to the present day, of the beliefs of the early followers of Christ, including the witness of the Apostles who personally saw Christ die and then come back to life as He said. Skeptics always say 'we should trust them because ... ?' As though the justice system doesn't judge otherwise useless testimony based on its believability, the credibility of witnesses, circumstantial evidence, internal consistency of witness, etc. By their standard, nothing could be established in a court of law, ever. Everything would be 'photoshopped' or 'fake.' Besides, even assuming Christianity was false, which it's not, we should go to the contemporaries and followers of the contemporaries, and the followers of the Apostles themselves, instead of Bart Ehrman in 2022, to see what they believed about what John wrote, instead of what an open agnostic apostate from Christianity with that bias on the table thinks about what John meant. With no falsifiability (in the form of traditional interpretation, the key witness to what it meant and how it was understood when it 'dropped').

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@bobloblaw4102 that we should trust cuz Ehrman claims that believe that Revelations predicts the future is a modern thing, while some of the conclusions are modern, the general believe that it describes, even if metaphorically, the future is old.

[@wizdomministries5720]

@EternalVisionToday Exactly, the comment might as well say "So much for the Holy Spirit doing his job right". Ppl seem to think God is just guiding his whole church into a delusion.

[@MrPeterFranc]

The early church and all the saints and elders and disciples of the apostles believed the “prophetic” interpretation of the book of revelation. So yeah

[@AveChristusRex]

But muh NeW sChoLArly iNteRprETaTion

[@jesusyeshua4665]

@@AveChristusRex there is no scholarship of the new testament today. they dont know what 1 st and second century christians claimed about the origin of the books of the bible so they make conspiracy theories.

[@GTWAL]

Partial preterist/post mill here. Love the content very much, so much wisdom here from both sides

[@philcollins1613]

And now we hopefully see IP's response to the claims made in video form. I think people don't understand that this is an interview, not a debate.

[@DominickRT44]

Great discussion. A lot of well known pastors today have abysmal sermon series on Revelation, (Greg Locke, Greg Laurie) but guys like Matt Chandler and Voddie Baucham dispel a lot of the lies that modern evangelicals believe about the book. I would definitely check them out

[@surf2553]

Interesting - any links to particular sermons from Matt or Voddie on Revelations you recommend?

[@JohnSmith-fp8il]

The interesting thing is we live in a time when even many non Christians can realistically anticipate a time when those who don't have a machine readable mark in their forehead or on their hand will be denied the right to buy. We saw a crude approximation of this during the pandemic. The necessary technology will be in place when governments adopt digital currencies and do away with cash.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

the religious have some really weird ideas about conspiracy.

[@Fallen-Saint]

Yo will there be a video on that debate, I can't go but would love to watch?

[@dumpsterfire79]

You gotta pay $40 to watch it the day of. Link should be in the description if you're interested. IP will get a small cut if u purchase it through his link.

[@Rimlick]

Right, sooooo. Does anyone else see Bart as IP from the future?

[@Reignor99]

lol now that you mention it, sure. I sometimes think IP will eventually become an atheist. He's learning too much.

[@christianlacroix5430]

Birds of the same feather flock together

[@noahr5505]

False witness?

[@delanchan699]

Interesting. Any books you recommend on Revelation? Besides this new one, of course.

[@heartsandmindsathome]

I’m not IP but I’m also curious what he’d recommend. A few I’ve found helpful are: Behind the Veil of Moses by Brian Martin; How the End Times Ended in AD 70 by Micah Stephens; Christ Came Again by William Smith Urmy; Pertinent Parousia Passages by Tony Denton... happy studying!

[@mywinterapocalypse]

Not a book but a good start. kzbin.info/www/bejne/noHLoH-omKebZ7M

[@delanchan699]

Thanks a lot man!

[@jimmerkerlin5005]

Thank you, Michael.

[@juozapasjurksa1400]

Great video!

[@heurisko2103]

Bart Ehrman reminds me of the atheist community college professor trying to debunk the faith of young naive evangelicals. He even has the scoffing laugh. Lol

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

The 666/number of the name simply refers to a census number listed under the head of a family name rather than listing every single name as in the book of NUMBERS conducted by Moses and Aaron when mustering an army and allotting the land (also in the time of Nehemiah with an example using the same number 666) - which will reoccur when the ‘ingathering’ being planned in Israel today by the diaspora ministry finally happens. The prophesy of the mark of the name is an old testament reference to the Sinai covenant marriage where the congregation are sealed in the hand and forehead with the name of the Lord, as the wife takes the name of the husband in marriage. This is symbolized by the tefillin worn by observant Judeans over the hand/forehead marked with the name Shaddai which is the Holy Spirit. The rabbis are awaiting the prophet Elijah to return to renew the old covenant and law and altar and temple, etc - this answers to the false prophet/second beast of Revelation 13. I have deep studies on my blog linked atop my channel too lengthy to post here on these things.

[@DarrenGedye]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed hmm, scholars debate these things but somehow you emphatically know all the answers?

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

@@DarrenGedye sounds like a pharisee argument

[@rensorek]

@@DarrenGedye Exactly. If it was "known" there wouldn't be so much study behind it. It's a mystery that will be understood at the appropriate time.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed thank god you're here to clear things up, maybe you can explain the rest of the bible too cos no one seems to agree on what anything in it means.

[@IamTimOtheus]

Rev.1:19 - Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 1. Write the things which you have seen = chapter 1 2. The things which are = Wait for a moment 3. The things which will take place after this = see chapter 4:1 (“Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”) That means that "The things which are" must be chapters 2 and 3. These chapters are talking about 7 churches. Reading this chapters, there is no specific message per church. It's a general message for all churches of all times. This time frame off churches will be over one day. Starting with chapter four, the church cannot be found in the story further. This is when "Lord’s Day'' (1:10), which also is announced in the old testament.

[@Soonerking]

And the Lord's Day referred to the end of the Jewish Age and Old Covenant. That is what is going on in the Book of Revelation.

[@IamTimOtheus]

@@Soonerking end of Jewish age and old covenant 🤔 Can you explain that?

[@Soonerking]

Incorrect. While, you can use the moral warnings for all churches in all times, you can't take those churches and divorce them from the time frame given in the book and the clear relationship to the destruction of Jerusalem 70CE that is has.

[@nerdatron817]

@@Soonerking I hold the view that the destruction of the temple in 70 BC was the first half of the tribulation and the great tribulation is the latter half.

[@nerdatron817]

​@Matt Seymour Your paragraph about the 2nd woe shows you are not taking it into context, and that you think old english is modern english.

[@pdxnikki1]

Please do a video on biblical inerrancy, Mike.

[@AveChristusRex]

Wasn't the 'materialistic' (symbolic) vision of heaven a promise of what followed "denial of self?" Rather than being in opposition of it? Is he being honest?

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

Bart Erhman is rarely honest

[@edwardwicks304]

Not a bad interview. IP, my feelings towards you vacillate but I find you to be a person of integrity. You have great insights and you offer perspectives that cause us to think. Please, keep up the good work.

[@austinapologetics2023]

This will be interesting

[@timothysparks6949]

Great interview! Looking forward to getting the book, too.

[@fernandocoto]

Excelent Michael thanks for the interview. Take a look at Dr. Kenneth L Gentry for an interesting view of Revelation. Keep up the good work 👌🏻

[@waxworse]

Proverbs 9: 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 12: 5The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit. 1 John 2: 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (KJV)

[@Seven_1865]

The fact that Erhman thinks Revelation was only read as a prediction of the future since the 19th century really makes me wonder why he’s taken so seriously. Even a casual reading leaves one with the impression that it’s about the future.

[@MountainFisher]

If you read what John wrote it is about the destruction of Jerusalem. He wrote SOON going to happen. It was written before 70 AD not after.

[@cressidadsouza2623]

@@MountainFisher ok but the book of revelation also speaks of the coming of Christ. So what about it? Is this not the future or its no happening coz Bart erhman thinks so.

[@carsonianthegreat4672]

Yeah there are plenty of Church Fathers who interpret it as speaking of the future

[@MountainFisher]

@@cressidadsouza2623 It was taught by many Church fathers to be an account of the destruction of Jerusalem and very symbolistic. six hundred and sixty six was Hebrew letter' corresponding numbers for Nero Caesar and if you look at Old Testament "comings" of God in Judgement against Israel and Jerusalem they were always symbolic as God used the Baylonians and Assyrians to hand out His Judgements. Jesus came in AD 67-70 in judgement against Jerusalem. Soon means soon not two thousand years in the future. The soon coming end of the age was the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy about the destruction of the Temple. The generation Jesus was talking to did not pass away until all the things He prophesied about in Matt. 24 came true. The same John who wrote Revelation also wrote in 1John "we know it is the last days" The Sun and Moon ceased to give their light and the stars fell from the sky if you use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament. What part of Revelation is for the future I don't know, but it was mostly fulfilled by the 3 1/2 years it took to destroy Jerusalem by the Roman Legions.

[@__.Sara.__]

I watched this earlier and really enjoyed it- I love Dr. Ehrman! Came back to see how the comments were 😅 I've only read Revelation once in the two years I've been a Christian, so I don't know much about it yet, except that it is full of Old Testament allusions. I don't know much about interpreting it as past events, or that interpreting it otherwise is a relatively recent shift in theology. This was really interesting and I would definitely like to read Dr. Ehrman's upcoming book on it. And research further in the meantime! Looking forward to his debate with Dr. Licona, too!

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

Sara Rainey, the Roman Catholic church dominated most of church history, and they adopted Augustine's new Amillennial doctrine, which basically says that they are ruling the kingdom of God on earth in Jesus' place until the end of time when he just comes to judge. Then the Protestant Reformation started and people began to read and believe the Bible again, and that's when the futurist interpretation of Revelation was reignited. It wasn't in the late 1800s, as Bart claimed.

[@__.Sara.__]

@@biblehistoryscience3530 😅 Every time I learn something new about Christianity, I immediately realize there's so many layers of history, people and places, theology- everything. Thank you for sharing! Definitely going to learn more about this!

[@thecircumcisedheartofricha7344]

Jay Dyer (Orthodox Christian) also speaks of it pointing to events in 70 AD and also mirroring potential events later.

[@leighlewis5514]

What motivates a man to devote himself to be a "respected expert" of something he seems to consider complete bullshit? What on earth does he believe about life, the universe, etc? He doesn't emphasise any belief except in scripture being crap... and having a knowing laugh.

[@__.Sara.__]

@@leighlewis5514 Dr. Ehrman was a Christian when he began seminary. He fell away from the faith over a span of some years. Let's pray for him!

[@Tony-dp1rl]

I love how he says we definitely know Revelations wasn't written by the Apostle John, even though the vast majority of scholars still hold the view it was, and it was known to be written by him as far back as the second century AD. There are a lot of reasons why grammar changes could exist other than a different author - perhaps he was reciting it to someone else to transcribe as he got very old, or perhaps the original was not in Greek, etc. Academics that make blanket statements like "we know" or "for certain" when their opinion is a minority one, come across as pretentious

[@sethbaker6801]

Hey man, could you give evidence that "the vast majority of scholars" believe that the Apostle John wrote the book of revelation?

[@Soonerking]

Years ago some scholars believed Revelation was originally written in Hebrew!

[@jacobfrancis8310]

Pretty sure most scholars don’t-John of Patmos is typically considered different from John the Apostle. At least that’s what I’ve read, could be wrong though..

[@seedfarmer0416]

Thank Elohim for his Holy Spirit who had revealed secret and mysterious things to us, because of His mercy and grace. I can't imagine how depressed I would have been, listening to these two guys as described in Romans 1:22, without any clear understanding from the book of Revelation. Poor Bart Erham says 'the beast is the Romans'!!! Thank Elohim for his word that says ' Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. Christ revealed what nation the beast is, in Revelation 2:12 & 13 - And to the angel of the church in PERGAMOS write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where SATAN'S SEAT IS: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where SATAN DWELLETH. Revelation 13:2 - And the beast ( Antichrist) which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the DRAGON ( SATAN) gave him his POWER, and HIS SEAT, and GREAT AUTHORITY. According to these 2 scripture verses, Satan's seat is in 'Pergamos', and the location of Pergamos today is in Turkey NOT the old Roman empire!

[@MichaelStratton1993]

As one who has a partial Preterist Historicist interpretation I agree completely with you that the Beast is Turkey, specifically the Ottoman Empire. But I’d also argue that the Ottoman Empire is the continuation of Rome as Mehmed II declared himself the “Roman Emperor: Kayser-i Rum, literally "Caesar of the Romans". Mehmed's claim rested principally with the idea that Constantinople was the rightful seat of the Roman Empire, as it had indeed been for more than a millennium. past alliances between the Ottoman dynasty and Byzantine Imperial families. Byzantine Princess Theodora Kantakouzene had been one of the wives of Orhan I, Mehmed claimed that by this he was a descendant of John Tzelepes Komnenos, which would of made Mehmed Roman nobility. This would make sense of the order of the Beast as well as Muhammad was most likely the false prophet beast of the earth which came after the beast of the sea(Rome). The Beast of the Earth(Islam) converted the first Beast(Rome) too his religion through Mehmed II, interesting how Mehmed is a shorten Turkish Variant too the name Muhammad. The Beast(Pagan Rome) who had a fatal head wound by the victory of the Church, who conquered and Christianized it, is later revived as the Ottoman Empire(Islamic Rome) and the Persecution of Christianity begins again. Mehmed can also be seen as Daniels little horn which uprooted 3 other horns(Byzantium, Serbia, Bulgaria) each of these kingdoms also claimed too be the successor of Rome. The 10 horns that spring from the fourth beast were likely kingdoms that claimed too be successors of the Roman Empire, each of them Christian except for the 11th which uprooted the 3 in the name of Islam the second Beast.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Revelation 11.8 and 17.5,18 make plain that Jerusalem is indeed spiritual Babylon: _And their dead bodies will lie on the street of _*_THE GREAT CITY_*_ which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified._ (Rev 11.8). _The woman [Babylon per 17.5] whom you saw is _*_THE GREAT CITY_*_ which reigns over the kings of the earth._ (Rev 17.18). Even the Babylonian Talmud compares Israel with Babylon, go figure. The harlot is also described in the colors and jewels describing the Levitical high priest’s garment colors and jewels on the breast-piece. I cover these things in my last video which I think you will find interesting, *The Antichrist Kingdom for Dummies*

[@MichaelStratton1993]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed I agree with you that chapters 11 and 12 is referring too the destruction of Jerusalem In 70 AD, but I don’t find the arguments that Jerusalem is the Mystery Babylon convincing. The echoing of the phrase “the Great City” may have some significance but I don’t think it’s proof that these verses are referring too the same city. Verse 17:18 refers too this Mystery Babylon ruling over the kings of the Earth, which at that time would of been Rome. Rome has more in common with Babylon, just as Babylon destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem and scattered the inhabitants, Rome also destroyed the Temple and scattered the inhabitants. The Apostle Peter directly refers too Rome as Babylon in his Epistle. The gems mentioned in 17:4 are too vague too make the High priest connection, the verse mentioned pearls and the High-priest did not wear pearls and the verse doesn’t tell us what precious stones she is wearing either. The next two objections Is that the kings of the earth was too mourn for Mystery Babylon In Revelation 18:9, yet nobody mourned Jerusalem. Matter of fact antisemitism was on the rise both before and after the destruction of Jerusalem as we see with the Riots in Alexandria. People were celebrating the destruction of Jerusalem, yet the Kings of the Earth were mourning the destruction of Rome, with many trying too recapture and revive that part of the Empire. The last point is Revelation 18:23 where it states “by your sorceries(pharmakeia) the nations were deceived” Revelation 18:23 states that Mystery Babylon deceived the nations by pharmakeia, religious rituals where you use mind altering drugs to induce a spiritual experience. None of the Jewish sects in Judea used mind altering substances but we know there were many pagan cults throughout Rome who had such practices.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

@@MichaelStratton1993 i don’t agree that Rev 11 and 12 refer to 70 AD and is still future to us. This is why it doesn’t make sense as you pointed out because it hasn’t taken place also it has nothing to do with Rome, where the temple never stood to begin with and would never fool even the elect if possible. The rabbis would never accept Rome or the pope as the messiah or the seat of His kingdom which would contradict many prophesies from OT and NT alike. Rev 11.8 and 17.5,18 speaks for itself and is so obvious I personally use it as a litmus test to decide who is biblically sound or not. No, Peter didn’t refer to Rome as Babylon either, that’s just an unfounded yet popular interpretation. Jerusalem is spiritual Babylon in the sense that it will be the focal point of a global false religion with the new temple (long planned by the Temple Institute in Jerusalem training Levites for service as we speak) like at the tower of Babel. It was in Jerusalem on Pentecost when the apostles began speaking in various tongues/languages to communicate the gospel to the men gathered from different nations in a sort of reversal of the confusion of tongues, now that the Holy Spirit had left the temple and was given to believers. Revelation shows the harlot sitting upon the waters (various peoples) gathered around, which again is described wearing the colors of the high priestly garment (questions of exact identity of jewels notwithstanding, they’re still wearing jewels) and even comes on a scarlet beast much like the red heifer the Temple Institute is looking for to cleanse the land and bring in the temple ministry/priesthood once again. The high priest also wore the name YHWH openly on his forehead, however spiritually we see the true spirit nature written on her forehead in Revelation. Rev 11.8, 17.5,18 also harmonizes with other scriptures pointing to Jerusalem as spiritual Babylon (in accordance with the theme of also called spiritual Sodom and Egypt): _”And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”_ (Rev 18.24) _”Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her”_ (Mat 23.37) _”For you, brethren, became imitators of the congregations of God in Christ Yeshua that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Judeans, who both killed the Lord Yeshua and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.”_ (1Th 2.14-16) The Israelis/Judeans are very proud that their own are the heads of the major pharmaceutical (derived from pharmakeia) companies pushing covid vaccines which the new data coming out now is showing very concerning things, a controversial subject beyond the scope of this discussion.

[@MichaelStratton1993]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed my mistake, usually when people argue that Jerusalem is Babylon they are taking a full preterist interpretation, comparing the Fall of Jerusalem in 70AD too that written in Revelation 18. As convincing as some of your arguments do seem, I heard them all before from Full-Preterist. Except for the connection you made between Babylon’s Pharmekeia and the current vaccines, I have too admit that is clever though I don’t think that’s what John and his audience were thinking of when he wrote it. Also I am not making the argument that Mystery Babylon is the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church, that would be a Futurist interpretation which I don’t ascribe too, besides the Vatican City doesn’t sit on 7 hills. The city of Rome sits on 7 hills and Jerusalem also sits on 7 hills, Mecca also sits on 7 hills. For me these are the only viable choices as the identification of Mystery Babylon. I don’t take a Futurist interpretation I take a Partial-Preterist Historicist interpretation of Revelation. The Beast trampling upon the Great city for 42 months(3.5 years) and the woman fleeing into the wilderness for 1,260 days(3.5 years) is speaking of how the Jerusalem Church community fled too the Kedarite city of Pella, fulfilling Isaiah 42:11, while the Romans besieged Jerusalem from 66-70AD(3.5 years) and destroying the Temple, fulfilling the end of Daniel’s 70 week vision. Now many Preterist will then go and argue that this is the fall of Mystery Babylon, but I take the Historicist approach that states that Rome’s destruction in the 5th century and the power vacuum that followed, is the fall of Mystery Babylon. Rome is Mystery Babylon because Judah’s history and relationship with Rome reflects Judah’s history with Babylon. When God delivered Judah from the hands of the Assyrians , they then allied themselves with Babylon. When God delivered Jerusalem from the hands of Greece, they then allied themselves with Rome. Babylon besieged Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and displaced the Jews into captivity. Rome besieged Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and displaced the Jews into captivity. This fulfills Isaiah 6:12-13 which tells of two destructions and two captivities until the Mystery of Isaiah’s prophecy will be revealed and the Messiah the Holy Seed will be revealed.

[@RicardoMartinez-mu8od]

Bart is a weasel when it comes to presenting evidence in its full context. Mike Winger has done an amazing job breaking many of Barts deceptions.

[@Seven_1865]

@pep kekingson I agree. I’m just starting to tune into these kinds of discussions and I’m very surprised by the authority Ehrman is given. No wonder Christians doubt when those who seem like respected defenders of the faith fail to answer him. That said, some of his arguments are not great but no one would know that if he’s not challenged.

[@RicardoMartinez-mu8od]

@pep kekingson I think the point of this video was to encourage people to listen to the debates, however, I think it has done the opposite.

[@Debunked421]

I'd love to see Bart Ehrim debate Dr Michael Hesier. My bets on the good Dr.

[@GnosticGnome]

@pep kekingson IP is very obsessed with modern scholarship and kowtows to it like a Pagan every chance he gets. He's good at researching in that context but he will often give it very fruitless leverage and benefit of the doubt.

[@ianb483]

Agreed.

[@vladtepes9614]

In ancient times, a mark on the right hand or forehead was a symbol of slavery. It was usually the name of the slave's master. We can see this in the Elephantine Papyri from the Persian period: "(I) On the 20th of Siwan,[1] that is the 7th day of Phamenoth,[2] the year 38 of King Artaxerxes[3]--at that time, (2) Meshullam son of Zakkur, a Jew of the fortress Elephantine, of the detachment of Arpakhu said to the woman Tapmut (as she is called), (3) his slave,[4] who has on her right hand the marking "Of Meshullam," as follows:" - (Manumission of a Female Slave and her Daughter, 427 BCE)

[@mrjediknight]

I've got Michael Gorman's Reading Revelation Responsibly still on my bookshelf to read.

[@vegetasapologetics3214]

Bart might be wrong and IP is just gitty about it...what a nice gesture. I take the eclectic approach on reading revelation where it combines the preterist and futurists view. It sure does gives an account of the 1st century occurances Haha..?/ But it is to be recited throughout the ages

[@s9523pink]

Fascinating to me is that this professor is looking for similarities between the Gospel of John, and the Revelation of Jesus, authored by John. When we know that Biblical authors tended to dictate to those who wrote for them; Paul is an excellent example. I would surmise that by the time you get to the writer of Revelation, you have the possibility of a very old author dictating to a different scribe from that of the Gospel. As for this professor, I'd be careful about people who don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus, Paul calls this the crux of our Faith on which it literally rises or falls and defines whether our Faith is true. At least he admits he's an agnostic, so I take what he has to say with the same weight as the admitted used car salesman who says he has a great deal for me; i will listen but with greater criticality.

[@TheDanEdwards]

"Revelation of Jesus, authored by John. " - not the "John" of the alleged young disciple, nor even the author of the fourth canonical gospel (the author is not stated.) _Christian_ scholars have concluded that the John of Patmos was a monk, on Patmos, at the ending decades of the first century, and is described in the book of Revelations as the receiver of said revelations. The saddening thing is that so many commenters here don't seem to realize that Ehrman is not saying anything that _Christian_ commentators have not already discussed for a great many years.

[@harveywabbit9541]

@@TheDanEdwards The "Beast" aka sether (666) aka winter, is led by the scorpion/Scorpio aka Satan, father of lies. This is the five signs/months of winter, that can harm man through hunger, cold, rain, darkness, sickness....They include Scorpio (the leader) plus Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces. These five are also the sons of Shem/Sem who is copied from Hades/Pluto as the underworld.

[@Soonerking]

And Erhman himself has stated they all used scribes!

[@cradleofrelaxation6473]

I used to watch your videos on IP and I love your eloquent voice though I’ve never seen your face. Nice to see you’re face.

[@thecircumcisedheartofricha7344]

Every time I hear B.E.'s voice I hear an echo; "...it depends on which gospel you read!"

[@michaelharrington75]

I take everything Ehrman says with a grain of salt.

[@paulhayes5684]

Agreed

[@baonemogomotsi7138]

I take everything written in the Bible with a grain of salt (I don't but you admitting that is retarded)

[@charlesmorse386]

I like the InspiringPhilosophy channel and respect Bart Ehrman but with regard to this topic he is wrong on the critical point of dating the Revelation and its authorship. The Greek style does not match in John and Revelation because the Gospel of John was originally penned in Hebrew by John and then translated into very literal and formal Greek. Revelation was penned in Greek by John long after he wrote his gospel hence the poor grammar and structure of the Greek. Revelation was written about AD 66. I strongly urge you to familiarize yourself with the work of Professor Bruce Gore on this topic. He has posted his university lectures on the Book of Revelation on KZbin (60+ videos of over one -two hours in duration). His scholarship on this topic is exhaustive and simply without peer. I also highly recommend his other work also available on his channel. Please do your viewers a great service and interview Professor Gore on this critical topic. If you are a Christian then you absolutely must watch the Bruce Gore series on Revelation. It will blow your mind and bring you to a much deeper understanding of both the Old Testament and New Testament and the nature of the unfolding of the Kingdom of God in time and space.

[@rammuanapachuau7977]

wish I could watch a live stream of the upcoming big debate

[@adelili16]

Love this!

[@PastorJacobFrett]

Revelation 20:6 makes me believe that it is future.

[@Soonerking]

The problem is Christ said he would return in that generation! He did. This was the order: Christ returned in judgment, the beast was defeated, the resurrection took place, and the saints inherited the kingdom. “ So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel'” So, basically if Christ is sitting on His throne now, which he is, or else we are still under the law, then also those who were raised are also sitting on thrones!

[@metaldisciple]

@@Soonerking he didn’t.

[@misterbobby8913]

Inspiring philosophy, after watching this video, and seeing You, and Bart Ehrman talk. You have me now in a hole of *doubt* . You have me now Completely questioning the book of revelations. Led me to basically Definitely discount it. -And you have me now wondering about claims of others' that Jesus's prophecy of him coming back never happened...and thus...well, didn't happen. Followers of Christ were so disillusioned when the romans wrecked jerusalem in 70 A.D. and well nothing actually happened regarding Jesus returning as he himself had said he would. ....oh well......

[@johanjonahanyi5107]

Dont put your faith on man, otherwise it will be flimsy. Keep finding for the truth with an open mind, listening on both sides.

[@heartsandmindsathome]

That WAS his return, in AD 70. :) That generation, during which Jesus said those events would take place, would have expected him to come in just the same way the Lord descended and came ‘in the clouds’ as He did in the Old Testament - in glory and in judgement. He did just that. There are many Christians who vindicate Christ by not calling him a liar or a lunatic, who believe not only him, but the other New Testament apostles as well. Why would they have needed to be warned about something if it did not even apply to them? And how could we possibly apply it to us or the future if it DID apply to them?(which it did). The Bible never mentions the end of time. It speaks of the time of the end. The end of what? -we should ask. It was the end of the old covenant age. Jesus lived in the “this age” mentioned in scripture. We live in the “age to come” mentioned in scripture. There is not another future age, for this one has no end! I think the entire Bible is so much clearer when we take the timing and audience relevance into consideration. Happy studying! P.S. I haven’t heard this interview yet.

[@arandaspis112]

If the doubt would "win," what would you believe in instead of Christianity?

[@smidlee7747]

In case you didn't know a lot that's in Revelation is mention in the Old Testament. Often the Old Testament refers to in "that day". Also note even Jesus disciples didn't know everything including John the Baptist. They thought Jesus would saved them FROM the Romans and didn't have any idea that Jesus would SAVE the Romans. The gospel writers made it clear they were not know-it-alls. Of course we have atheist who knows everything and can sell books with their great knowledge of scripture. Also remember the scribes and Pharisees knew the scripture / Old Testament better than any other group of men yet Jesus said their father was the devil.

[@Angle98411]

No he didn't,Jesus never said he would return in their lifetimes,when Jesus said all these things must come to pass for "this" generation he was not referring to his generation it was talking about a specific generation but not his.

[@freebornbaptist]

What is the music track? sounds good!

[@joshuadunford3171]

The thumbnail looks awesome!!!

[@therottingstench]

hey Josh!

[@joshuadunford3171]

@@therottingstench yes?

[@bryan-nz]

I'm curious as to how the seven seals in the first part of Revelation could be interpreted as anything other than a future end-of-days. It boggles the mind, so I look forward to reading this book.

[@matheusadornidardenne8684]

He probably will sweep it under the rug as being "poetry for nothing", like he basically did this whole interview.

[@brotherben4357]

@@matheusadornidardenne8684 Do you not value his views? What do you feel he has to hide?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@matheusadornidardenne8684 "sweep" it under.

[@matheusadornidardenne8684]

@@brotherben4357 Ehrman doesn't "hide" it. All his conclusions are based upon his silly belief that God is mean. Therefore he has to retroject this conclusion upon his analyses, and it shows.

[@matheusadornidardenne8684]

@@HarryNicNicholas thanks.

[@icarovdl]

Dude this guy hugely missleads people

[@didilv2187]

IP I want to hear your short or long take on the book of revelation . ty GBY

[@UncensoredChristian]

This will be fun 🤌🏽

[@kingdizzy2871]

What if the apostle John had someone write the gospel for him and he himself wrote revelation after thinking himself learned enough that’s why the gospel would be better than the other book in terms of writing

[@hans.stein.]

Very likely you are right. In the gospel there is a plural of people around John. Not in Revelation. Thanks.

[@nunyabidness5375]

It is possible that both "Johns" are not the same person, at least the gospel of John may have been written by Lazarus.

[@monotheist..]

indeed bible is not coherent book its an eclactic book they sometimes use septuagint and sometimes use masoratic which is corrupted, septuagint also have vast differences and error, new testament also have variants and interpolation in early ages seems like unpreserved and unfinished job until scholars selected which is original word centuries later, we believe god is created fine tuned universe as detailed as molecules there are no maverick molecules that escape god, now with all this great details and fine tuned universe which need to be in balance of matters to be sustained, why the bible is not as perfect as that? why scholars are in quest for the perfect bible?

[@TruthDissident]

No chance. John would've been too old.

[@alecbunting8116]

I think my only problem with this video so far is it doesn’t feel like an “interview”. It feels like IP started this video with a specific view of revelation and is using an atheist scholar to affirm that view. (The view of revelation not being future).

[@endlessnameless7004]

I agree. It feels like IP is appealing to Ehrman's scholarly authority to support his preterist views. But what do we have to do with worldly wisdom?

[@alecbunting8116]

@@endlessnameless7004 that is the perfect way of putting it!

[@alonzoharris6730]

IP should also accept the view that it's not written by John if he is consistent.

[@RobSed55]

Thanks for this interview. I'd like to hear Bart Ehrman speak more, on Christian channels, about his scholarly view of actual scripture.

[@sthelenskungfu]

I think that Revelation isn't future any more, but I definitely see advantages to the views that don't place it in time at all. Even though I do think I can place most of it in history, I get the most out of it when I don't.

[@rlee1185]

It is about the future.

[@jakejerrison5181]

If you have brain damage, maybe you’d think that.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@jakejerrison5181 'Everyone before about 5 seconds ago had brain damage but I don't. I'm smart.' -definitely NOT smart people

[@rlee1185]

@@jakejerrison5181 you definitely don't have phds in these areas. Plenty of people that do disagree with you.

[@jakejerrison5181]

@@rlee1185 That’s why I appeal to facts and not academic authority.

[@johnnastrom9400]

No. It is about 1st century Rome.

[@TheLionFarm]

but PROPHESYING SERVES NOT for them that BELIEVE NOT, BUT for them WHICH BELIEVE. 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:2 Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 Corinthians 14:22 Why tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serves not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

[@TheLionFarm]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fae0aJltrct3aMk it is done

[@blamtasticful]

Great interview and promotion! 👍

[@Soonerking]

A key to understanding Revelation is found in the reason for why it was written. Audience relevance. It was for first century believers.

[@Soonerking]

Clearly, it can't be about the future because no one is using the Gematria now!

[@johnnybaldwin3419]

I know from personal experience that the messiah did resurrect and is alive for evermore just like the Bible says he is. I was in the spirit and I touched his robe, fell to my knees and wept. He said to me “Do what was undone”. I felt myself falling and I was back in my bed. For a second I couldn’t talk or move. Then I was fine. I did not see his face but I know it was him ! Believe, and accept him as your personal savior. Denying him is a huge mistake !

[@sikeajax]

Do you think Revelations should be in the Biblical canon ?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

your personal experience was probably indigestion.

[@dickjones4912]

So did you do it? Did you do what was undone? Or did you just undo what you did.

[@Philusteen]

Man, I am so much healthier since I let my beliefs float away, making space for science, history, and philosophy of the real. Ehrman's scholarly approach - and good nature - illuminate the context and contrivances that I was raised to just consume without question.

[@paulhayes5684]

Way to pat yourself on the back. Whatever makes you happy I guess.

[@Philusteen]

@@paulhayes5684 that's a little passive-aggressive, lol - but I'm humbled that you thought it was worth your time. 😆 Actually I wasn't being self-congratulatory at all - just sharing a perceived mental health benefit. Cheers!

[@2367J]

Yeah preterism is a huge wake up call for a lot of us. Recommend getting on Shawn McCraney, he can go in depth and explains it clearly.

[@introvertedchristian5219]

That was a quick interview. It was a good interview, though.

[@U4Eye]

The Shroud of Turin is enough to convince me that Jesus rose.

[@jakejerrison5181]

Too bad it’s not real.

[@metaldisciple]

@@jakejerrison5181 it is there is mountains of evidence

[@nunyabidness5375]

As for the date, we have ONE guy, Irenaus, who claims a date of A.D. 96. Both historically and Biblically, one witness without corroborating testimony does not establish veracity. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, every thing shall be established." Daniel is one, Christ is two, and the internal evidence which suugests it was written prior to the Jewish War is the third witness to a date for Revelation of A.D. 66 or earlier.

[@mcgragor1]

Bingo, agree. Just in time for AD 70

[@heartsandmindsathome]

👏👏

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

You should read Andrew of Caesaria's commentary. Earliest patristic commentary. Summarises all prior commentaries by philosophers too.

[@Soonerking]

It was written before 70 CE. Not late in the First Century. That was the majority view until 1850. Moses Stuart (1836) mentions that the early date was the majority view.

[@johnnastrom9400]

No. It was written in year 95.

[@executionersmough150]

Can’t wait to see his opinions on it

[@jakethewhale]

Why stop at Revelation? Why don't you just throw out all the books that have teaching or symbolism you don't like?

[@RickDelmonico]

I might have about 10,000 hours of study into the Bible. I don't think an atheist will have much influence on my understanding.

[@B.S._Lewis]

That's because you're stubborn. Ehrman has had way more than that. He probably has that just reading the original Greek.

[@RickDelmonico]

@@B.S._Lewis Who invited the trolls in?

[@RickDelmonico]

@@B.S._Lewis That doesn't make him correct. My point is I know the Bible well enough to see through the arguments.

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@RickDelmonico PineCreek...

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@RickDelmonico Yeah it's kinda eye opening that the rock solid foundation of Christianity is all about subjective opinions and arguments... But you just keep reading the same book over and over and I'm sure your opinions will change as well.

[@PatrickHutton]

On the authorship by John. Bart Ehrman mentions the Greek is different from John's Gospel and the writing was poor. Could this be down to different Scribes being used to write the Gospel and Revelations.

[@r.s.241]

IP, can you do a show about the early date of the Gospel of John (before the temple destruction)? The late dating (40-50 years later) of Revelation (by the same John) could explain the grammatical/stylistic differences. John (writing in 65 AD) would be a better educated (not different) John than the one writing in 95 AD.