Why is the Book of Revelation in the Bible?

[@NightDocs]

Megan is the perfect host. Knowledgeable and knows how to steer the conversation and ask substantive questions to prompt him to new topics while keeping with the central subject matter

[@eesev2017]

(also she’s a babe)

[@hassanmirza2392]

She is Woke!

[@petergaskin1811]

@@hassanmirza2392 Do you know exactly what the term "woke" means? I find that it is just a very simple way for lazy thinkers to insult someone.

[@hassanmirza2392]

@@petergaskin1811 Read Quran bro!

[@revivlerech9020]

@@hassanmirza2392 And you be slope?

[@rmendoza5005]

Another awesome episode, you two do a great job! Bart Ehrman never fails to educate and enlighten his viewers, and Megan rocks that hairdo and I love her accent. Thanks to you both!

[@frankgamez9808]

I loved that statement towards the end Dr. ehrman where you said it’s good to have an informed faith because otherwise you have an ignorant faith. Thanks to you for the scholarly work you do. As a Christian I enjoy listening to your content.

[@tsb3093]

You do know he’s an atheist right?

[@justmenotyou3151]

​@@tsb3093It's God's will.

[@clayhamilton3551]

Faith is ignorant whether informed or uninformed

[@joannsullivan4959]

Revelation 10 is 9 11. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5LWm5Jqn62Bq6csi=qG6OCt1GjanlOn7v

[@joshieb7446]

Megan’s calm demeanor and sophistication makes this so easy to watch!

[@martifingers]

The Internet can be a wild and even deranged space but spending time being informed and entertained in the company of these two cultured, bright and humane individuals is really something that should be cherished.

[@exaucemayunga22]

I deed. Nowdays you have to look through all the junk to find any educational content.

[@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw]

It's the Internet that makes Dr Bart and Dr Megan available. They are wonderful personable communicators and I learn a fantastic amount listening to their conversations. 🙂🙂

[@simonthompson2764]

Megan and Bart together is such a treat. Two intelligent academics talking about Christianity, one a believer the other not. But they get on famously. No tensions. No defense mechanism. Just seeking the truth about the Bible.

[@bigtombowski]

Wait, Megan is a believer?

[@simonthompson2764]

@@bigtombowski Episcopalian I believe

[@theflarpus]

I don't think Bart is a Christian anymore.

[@FGuilt]

As a kid raised in the Independent Fundamental Baptist cult, Revelations gives so much excuse to the parents in that cult permission to feed their children nightmares from the earliest age (not to mention screamings and beatings "for my own good to save me from horrible eternal damnation"). It certainly broke me. I'm still (almost 40) trying to put the pieces of my identity back together. Thank you guys for discussing this damned book. Over the last 15 years, Dr Ehrman has been a massive help to me in putting Christianity into it's proper context. Thank you so much.

[@steveng8727]

You're not alone my friend, was raised in a 'born again' cult in SoCal. Oh that religious folk would awaken to the mythology and nonsense of the literal bible.

[@steveclark8538]

@@steveng8727 Yep me too. Raised in a strict Southern Baptist cult with a big picture of Jesus starring down at us from the main hall. I’m an old man now happy and free from this ANE tribal patriarchal apocalyptic cult (aka fundie Christianity)but it also took me decades to process.

[@eblake626]

Southern Baptist Apostate here. I still remember the Revelation nightmares vividly. I was so depressed I almost took my life. Now, my son enjoys a religion free upbringing. Amen? 😆

[@markrossow6303]

[@KGchannel01]

Yep, you're not alone, much respect to you guys! The wrestle with indoctrination is real. And I agree, F Guilt, haha

[@michaelcimino-hurt3630]

I’d like to thank Megan for her hard work to make these videos possible. Kudos, Megan and thanks.

[@RichardGeresGerbil]

I can't take her seriously with the Blue hair

[@iuutoob]

Watch another episode and her blue hair will be seriously a different color​@@RichardGeresGerbil

[@Obijuan02]

Thanks to you both for your scholarship and efforts in helping us understand.

[@asynchronicity]

Fearmongering is absolutely essential to keep people obedient to the authorities and afraid to think rationally.

[@andrelegeant88]

As Bart points out, Revelation was considered either fringe or an allegorical telling of the present kingdom of Chris for the vast majority of its history. It's only been used as a cudgel since the 19th century.

[@jonjjuuu]

10:26 10:28 ​@@andrelegeant88

[@joannsullivan4959]

Revelation 10 is 9 11. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5LWm5Jqn62Bq6csi=qG6OCt1GjanlOn7v

[@robertnorth1681]

Sometimes when I think of Revelations and folks I go to Church with who really get excited about it, it reminds me of a general thought of conservative white evangelicals, and maybe all sorts of people; Deep down, perhaps in areas of of which we aren't conscious, we want New Testament forgiveness for ourselves and Old Testament judgement for others. We want to be welcomed in the City of God, but we want THOSE people to get what they deserve (whoever those people are).

[@skepticus5705]

You’ve actually got it backwards. There is no eternal torment in the OT. No Hell or Satan-as-God’s-Eternal-Enemy, either. These are are NT motifs.

[@lawsonj39]

@@skepticus5705 You're correct, but I think I get Robert's point: the OT God comes across as a pretty vengeful, scary SOB; accurately or not, recent interpretations of the NT tend to see God as more benign.

[@skepticus5705]

@@lawsonj39 I see no persuasive reasons or evidences to suggest the existence of any god:scary, benign or indifferent. But, pray tell, how can you rationally interpret the NT in such a way as to put a positive face on a deity that creates a sadistic torture chamber?

[@HistoryandReviews]

Church is not a building

[@robertnorth1681]

I was more thinking of general attitudes. The Old Testament gives us an eye for an eye, etc. There’s the story of Aaron’s sons who mess up in the temple and are burned alive. NT gives us turn the other cheek. But in general I was thinking of the way Christians live in two worlds, especially those of us in the reformed tradition. We are sinners saved by grace, a grace that is neither earned nor deserved. Then I see Christians liking a Facebook meme about a doctor supposedly having bad experiences with patients who receive financial support for their care. How is it that Christians who have received grace they neither deserve nor earned hate on others in need. Except, look at the parable of the man whose debts are forgiven by a king, then throws one of his debtors in jail. So, in the same way, we want NT forgiveness for ourselves, a gift disproportionate to what we deserve, but we want other to get what they deserve.

[@philoyphilia]

I am pretty sure I am not the only one here who cannot wait for the next episode of this awesome podcast: Dr. Bart process of un-new-borning himself. A painful process that leaves a feeling a loneliness leading to spiritual freedom.

[@FGuilt]

"Un-new-borning". Well done. 😎

[@modulator7861]

I think that's actually called "De-Borning".

[@francelaferriere6106]

"Either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing." - Benjamin Franklin

[@PatrickPease]

Bart is the only speaker who is allowed to say "um" as frequently as he does... Somehow when he does it's endearing to me

[@TheWhyisthatso]

Just shows how really IGNORANT he is .

[@raycaster4398]

Less nervous (?) laughter, that's good, increases professorial gravitas

[@mojoman2001]

Um....

[@exaucemayunga22]

Um...

[@PatrickPease]

One time is not overdoing it, but if you want me to be endeared to you, you win!

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

So on the one hand it’s “important” that everyone understand Revelation, and on the other hand Bart Ehrman freely concedes that he himself, someone who has devoted his entire life to studying the New Testament, misunderstood Revelation for thirty years and, a fortiori, taught it wrong for thirty years. I’m going with Martin Luther here; I’m going to assume Revelation is impenetrable. Actually, I’m going further: I’m going to assume Revelation is impenetrable because the guy that wrote it is was off his rocker.

[@kencreten7308]

But when was Luther? We've learned nothing...? Because Luther had such penetrating ideas?

[@frankforsyth3978]

Did they have magic mushrooms available for consumption to those who wrote (transcribed) the books included in the bible per chance?

[@nutyyyy]

​@@frankforsyth3978Yes and other drugs.

[@exaucemayunga22]

​@@frankforsyth3978plants existed before humans according to the Bible, so yes.

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

The Left Behind series! 🤣 I have no doubt LaHaye and company were snickering in their beer all the way to the bank!! I credit the pastor of my local Mennonite Fellowship in the '80's who passionately taught Revelation is not a calendar of future events, it was meant for readers at the time of it's writing. If there were parts that were "secret" meant for a future audience then it had no meaning for it's original audience and if that's the case then what's the point of the book? It becomes irrelevant and useless as a future calendar... Authors and movie makers love the notion of the Battle of Armageddon but as my pastor noted if you read the passage there is no terrific battle to end all battles, rather it merely states the nation's are gathered FOR battle but Christ appears, the Beast is destroyed and Satan is bound...voila, no Oscar winning cinematic battle ... 32:01 ... my struggle is Faith is a form of ignorance, isn't it? "I don't care what the facts are I have faith!"

[@allanvrc725]

Armageddon refers to the fortified town that housed military forces which protected the trade routes from the east. In general it is exactly the situation that is occurring now this time in history regarding energy and commodities and minerals. Supply chains are vulnerable. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word, a Rhema, of God. With the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth one believes unto salvation. Fully believe in the heart and then speak out those thoughts that are revelation and a deeper experience will be discovered especially while fasting. Separate from unbelief including family while actively seeking.

[@GoZags43]

@@allanvrc725 What in the ever loving Sheol are you on about?? You are telling people to separate from their family members who are stuck (it ain’t stuck at all) in “unbelief?” No one wants to hear some nut job screaming in public about Armageddon and the apocalypse and all that nonsense. If the mouth leads to salvation, can the mount also lead to damnation? Because if so where do I sign up to be damned for eternity? I’ll just go ahead and mark my place in line. There’s no want in Sheol I’m doing anything that could jeopardize my eternal soul and risk going to heaven with fundamentalist doofuses like you. That sounds absolutely horrific in every way. However intermittent fasting IS good for your health, so I support the fasting part in a sense.

[@allanvrc725]

@@GoZags43 Everyone is caught up in a state of mind that is induced through life experience. Each person empowers a self belief and it is detrimental to any peaceful solution and generally leads to conflict. The mind is below par and directs a person into poor outcomes. If there is an opportunity to step back a little everything appears as a psycho drama and it has been stated that it seems everyone is living in the mental asylum. There is a way to redirect the mind's focus. There are self help gurus who use similar methods to help people have more financially successful lives. The scriptures are revealing that with discipleship the mind and belief can be adjusted toward Eternal life, which is immortality. Christians talk about an "after life" and living in heaven but it is not scriptural. The dead go into the grave and will later be resurrected therefore it is a "here after" on a new heaven and a new earth. When studying the atom it becomes obvious that every thing is held at a certain energy level with space and energy fields giving the volume. We all live in an image much like a plasma TV. Everyone is trapped in a biology that is then influenced by a degeneration, a decay of the planet that produces oxidizing at the cellular level and this brings aging and final death. The words you are writing and probably speaking and believing are reinforcing where your mind and belief is and there will be no change. To change the mind and belief's perspective from own self is difficult and not many will try it. My experience was inadvertent and not being sought but it is no less real. The topic is "why is the book of revelation in the Bible?" Have you listened to the video? The scripture states it is to show his servants things that are about to take place.

[@thereaction18]

People who ridicule faith want you to think that faith is baseless. Hebrews 11:1 is the typical verse used to define faith. In the variety of English translations, it can be interpreted loosely in various ways. I like using Bible Hub to compare the various translations against one another and against the original Greek, and to compare the Greek words used to the way they are used in other scriptures to get a clearer picture of the range of possible meanings. In this verse, the predicate nominatives equating to "faith" are "hypostasis" and "elenchon" in Greek. Hypostasis is commonly used to refer to an underlying substance or reality. "Substance" is practically just a Latinized way of saying "hypostasis". An alternative translation, "assurance," implies an underlying support. Unfortunately, it can be taken to refer to the feeling of assurance or confidence rather than the reason for it. Clearly not what the author intended. "Elenchon" refers to evidence, proof, or conviction as in court. Theologians argue that true faith cannot contradict reason. In this verse, faith itself is the reason for hope, and the proof of things unseen. Faith is not only consistent with reason, it is reason. Not the opposite of reason.

[@josiepens4480]

Faith is irrational it doesn't make sense. IOW nonsense.

[@doloresabernathy9809]

The one thing I dislike about almost all podcasts is that they always begin with ten minutes of small talk about nothing, As if people want to listen in on personal conversations about the weather, sports, kids etc. Please…edit that part out or catch up offline. Otherwise, this is super interesting.

[@hermenneutics6235]

I’m reading your new book Armageddon , and I love it ! It’s a great read and very informative , educational, and a great history lesson!

[@hackman669]

The force has a great influence over the weak minded. Obiwan Kenobi. 😁

[@hermenneutics6235]

@@hackman669 and the strong minded control the force. Herman Neutics 💪🤣

[@mirandak3273]

William Miller didn’t predict the Second Coming for 1848. He said March 1843, then when it didn’t happen, he said October, 1844.

[@brickwitheyes1710]

Always look forward to these. Thank you guys for this series

[@chrishooge3442]

I read Misquoting Jesus years ago and there are many examples of such subjective assumptions and straight out mis-translations that accumulated particularly in the 1000 years before the printing press. Basically a 1000 year game of Telegraph across Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Old English...and just about every other spoken language of the time. I'm being overly simplistic but I think it makes the point. There was a lot of adlibbing going on.

[@fretnesbutke3233]

Great subject! After getting a little more familiar with the heretical, unorthodox sect's 'Mythos', Revelations always struck me as having a distinctly Gnostic flavor. Can't wait to hear Professor Bart's talk.

[@johnnastrom9400]

Do you understand what Gnostics believed? Nothing about Revelation is Gnostic.

[@sionanenrois1433]

Great interview. As a kid I was always frightened by local church members who were primarily interested only in the hellfire and brimstone concepts of this. Thanks for the context. Also, Dr. Ehrman and I have a love of college basketball in common. Go Heels.

[@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi]

Heels are better than the trust-fun masters of the universe that go to Duke!

[@Cor6196]

Perhaps the Book of Revelation is so popular with today’s Evangelicals because they find everyday life in today’s world intolerable: “I can’t stand this anymore! Let catastrophe strike and burn and kill and erase it all!” 😭😤🤬🤯😱😁

[@allanvrc725]

It is because there is some alignment with world events as they unfold. It probably is not a terrorist mentality. Eventually God's will is going to be done on earth as it is in heaven. A new heaven and a new earth bringing peace and plenty.

[@fretnesbutke3233]

I totally agree. This life can get brutal,and people sometimes ache for an ethical way out. I think that impulse is behind the suicide bomber,even though the great majority of Muslims do not believe it is ethical.

[@dianadeejarvis7074]

They're hoping Jesus will return in 2024 and rescue them from their unhappy lives. Seriously.

[@estellesstories7467]

This is such an exceptional channel - rich information, thoughtful discussion. Bart and Megan are delightful. Thank you for making this knowledge available! Wishing you both excellent health and success.

[@CarlosTorres-cb5fb]

Awesome, thanks to two of you for helping us understanding the Scriptures. 🎉

[@NidusFormicarum]

As a non-beleiver, The Revelation has always been my favourite of the books in the Bible from a litterary standpoint with its powerful, imaginative language.

[@ronhansen8471]

That powerful imaginative language in the book of revelations is written that way by the true God to keep people out who do not deserve to know. The same is true regarding the book of Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, the four gospels with their illustrations and metaphors and other Hebrew scriptures. If people understood that powerful imaginative language, they would a find a powerful message hidden in them about God's will, his purpose for mankind and how to survive his wrath. To most people on this planet the bible is a fairytale and will be nothing else.

[@newnoggin2]

​@@ronhansen8471 So why was it written in a language nobody in the area could read, Classical Greek?

[@ronhansen8471]

@@newnoggin2 Koine Greek

[@getasimbe]

@@ronhansen8471 sure, doesn't help your case any still

[@RobespierreThePoof]

​​@@ronhansen8471 This kind of comment is why the modern world is full of people who can't stand Christians. Do you even hear yourself?

[@AlanCanon2222]

3:27 Main discussion begins

[@karekarenohay4432]

Thank you.

[@majafleur9646]

Raised as a Jehovah's Witness doomsday theology was paramount, and an entire structure of earthly / heavenly salvation based thereupon. Happy to be religiously freed from such fear but still learning how to free myself emotionally from it...thanks for an important video ♡.

[@monkmchorning]

I read the Bible, Genesis to Revelation, when I was in the fourth grade, as a commitment to a Sunday school teacher. By the time I got to Revelation I wasn't taking any of it too seriously. Over the years I appreciated how its imagery fed Renaissance art. Now that I'm older, I see it as mostly revenge porn for the pious. But the imagery is fun. And Megan's questions are illuminating.

[@Chris_Sheridan]

@monkmchorning .. and there's your problem - Sunday school never taught anyone about Christianity and the true 'gospel' that Jesus taught - not even close. You are proof of this.

[@stussysinglet]

​@@Chris_Sheridan he read the gospels first hand for himself.. he isn't convinced it's the word of God or accurate history... Get over it

[@Chris_Sheridan]

@@stussysinglet .. Lol! So what? He's still wrong. > and you don't know any better because you haven't studied or researched either - you're both as ignorant as each other.

[@Chris_Sheridan]

@@stussysinglet P.S > you have to read further to get proper understanding - the book of 'Acts of the Apostles' and also Paul's letter to the Philippians .. and then some. You'd never make a scientist or proper researcher - too lazy!

[@monkmchorning]

@@Chris_Sheridan sorry, but I'm not "proof" of anything.

[@perisword7918]

Has anyone out there read “Live From Golgotha: The Gospel According to Gore Vidal?” When Bart spoke about that early church father who said Judas was similar to Jabba the Hut in physique, I was reminded of some passages from that book. I wonder if Gore Vidal ever read any of the writings from that church father.

[@Cometkazie]

Excellent episode!!! How did Augustine attain such power that he could change what people believed about the millennium in Revelation?

[@hjeffwallace]

At his time, North Africa had some of the largest churches, and Augustine was bishop at Hippo. He wrote many large books, which were widely read. His interpretation of Revelation isn’t necessarily an influence on the church of his day, as much as it is a reflection of what people believed. It’s only through the modern hype of fortune-telling that his teachings seen odd. The church liked to think of themselves as the heroes (and victims) of Revelation. Augustine fed that bias.

[@lilwaynesworld0]

He actually had a moderating influence somewhat he took Millennium to be symbolic and Christian’s no longer thought Christ was coming at any moment. The rapture teachings today are partly a rejection of the church being in the milinium and the rejection of the symbolic for a literal.

[@aksoytori]

​@@hjeffwallace 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@aksoytori]

😊😊😊

[@aksoytori]

😊😊😊

[@zeitgeist5134]

Professor Ehrman, you explain the arguments about authorship at play before the inclusion of The Book of Revelation in the canon. Well and good. But I am wondering about the political factions (in the Church, but also, perhaps, in the Constantinian court) which found it to their advantage to include it in the canon. Who was twisting whose nose, and why? Revelation is so inconsistent with the rest of the Canon. I know that apocalyptic literature was common back then, common both inside and outside of the Christian community; therefore, I assume that Revelation was not as distasteful to them than it is to me. Yet those who lost the debate must have been annoyed. Did they also lose face? Was their status diminished?

[@grannykiminalaska]

I agree. And Understanding what drives believers is the only way to counter the very damaging laws they try to force on us.

[@henrybarrick7205]

What damaging laws?

[@colincampbell4261]

​@@henrybarrick7205 No sex before marrige, anti abortion, anti contraception, anti divorce, anti gay rights, blasphemy laws prevent freedom of speech and thought. Not as bad as it was a 50 years or a century ago.

[@henrybarrick7205]

@@colincampbell4261 In addition to respecting our creator, all of the laws you listed were created to support the life and well being of people not damage them. It is twisted to consider killing babies, having kids without a family, blashpheming God, and fornication in a positive light. Im not sure of any rights that gays dont have. Where does the bible condemn contraceptives? Your way off base.

[@compositioncompilation]

Rev 11:6

[@compositioncompilation]

Is there any similarity with these two capitalised phrases : THE TWO WITNESSES TWO WITNESSES.. . The old testament term was used as a meand to determine that which was legally acceptable in establishing truth. The reference made In revelation a deliberate direction to take that principle and adhere to it at this time ! Jehovahs witnesses have taken this stance, and its proven controversial in cases of child sex abuse . These tragic incidences are certainly not isolated to Jehovahs witnesses..but perhaps elicit more publicity because of the way they hold to the two witnesses principle. . Is it possible that God has chosen to utilise this controversy to gather or engage opposition against his representatives..the two witnesses ? In fact, interestingly..objectively speaking, in courts , the watchtower society have been charged fines , thousands of dollars daily until they had over lists of ALLEGED child molesters which congregation elders have recorded to hold until a second witness reports the individual alleged , at which point the pervert is cast out of the congregation.. disfellowshipped. Either destroying the records or refusing to hand those records over , it made me think that perhaps the Governing body of Jehovshs witnesses fit the profile of the man of lawlessness. However, back to the court fines : In effect..the jw ,s have paid for that title ..financially at courts and in reputation. .. The two witnesses

[@charliedurham4248]

As an atheist, I love finding common ground with the predominant religion in my culture (Christianity). So, I am really, really looking forward to the new book on the impact of ethics by Jesus.

[@thewb8329]

Check out the Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson compiled it with the same intent in mind. Of course it should actually refer to the literature of the Bible since little is known about the historical Jesus.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

If the “predominant religion [of YOUR] culture” is Christianity, you already have common ground. You were raised with common ground. You ARE Christian-in the only sense that has any real significance. Your personal beliefs about God are not especially relevant.

[@Jack-eo5fn]

@Venena Religio Est, the intent here is to find common ground which you say you refuse to do. That’s not about the weak claims of religion; that’s about you.

[@susanmcdonald9088]

Everyone! Calm down! As usual, the different interpretations are rampant and hateful! Either you believe the symbology of the Cosmos speaks to us, or it doesn't. STFW. separation of church & state. Move on. But those who preserve the experience, more power to 'em! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmiocp-KmL95rbs Or, the exploration of new ideas by scientists, theologians, astronomers, the religious, & world myth.

[@thewb8329]

@Venena Religio Est You sound as bigoted as many of them that you condemn and stereotype ALL of them as lazy. I know many lazy atheists but I am not naive to extrapolate that trait to the whole population (Elon Musk is the most driven Atheist that comes to mind). We live in a pluralistic society so it is best to give credit where credit is due for the benefit of all. Perhaps you forgot to apply your skepticism to your bias as well.

[@steveclark8538]

Why did Revelation ultimately make it into the canon? Because many early church leaders/fathers thought it fit just fine with the Hebrew Bible and the NT. They saw it as fitting with an avenging Messiah. The violence that plays out in Revelation is foreshadowed in multiple places in the NT sometimes by NT Jesus himself as has been discussed in the comments of the previous 2 videos. For more: The Bad Jesus the ethics of NT ethics by Dr. Hector Avalos.

[@creativewriter3887]

The Hebrew Bible was already canonized by the Jewish Community 200 years before the Church only began to decide which books were going to be part of the Xian bible. The Hebrew Bible is divided into three parts.. Torah, Prophets and Writings.. the "Writing" section was finally codified by 120 CE, right before the Bar Kochva Rebellion. Which is WHY the order of the books of the Tanach (Hebrew bible) is one way and the xian one is purposely re-ordered.

[@thereaction18]

@@creativewriter3887 Protestant bibles use something called the Masoretic text and refer to it as the Hebrew canon. Masoretes were a group in the 7th to 9th centuries AD. This obviously cannot be the same canon you are referring to. Can you help me figure out what canonization means in a Hebrew context and what the Masoretic text has to do with it?

[@creativewriter3887]

@@thereaction18 No they do not. "Masor" means "tradition" and there never was a group called the Masorites".. that's a xian MYTH. The Sages did use the Masoretic text (which included the vowels.. Traditional Torah scrolls, even today do not contain any vowels) because with the bulk of the Jewis living OUTSIDE of Israel, many of whom were now forbidden to learn Torah, so they could at least READ it. The Protestant bibles never had Jewish input.. especially the King James. Why? Because the Jews were expelled from England in 1300 and weren't allowed back into England until just prior to King James' ascent to the throne. NONE of the xian bibles are true to the Hebrew Bible EXCEPT the Jerusalem Bible which is pretty close!

[@thereaction18]

@@creativewriter3887 I appreciate your answer. I wasn't expecting Wikipedia to present a Christian myth as a fact. Of the many ways they tend to be wrong, that would be the one to catch me off guard.

[@creativewriter3887]

@@thereaction18 And I was harsh in my response to you and I apologize. I initially thought you were one of those xians who promulgate this "Masorites" concept. So again I apologize. Protestant xians (especially Evangelicals and fundamentalists) always want some "linkage" to the Hebrew Scriptures or Jews because they think it will add "credibility" to BOTH their claims and their bible.. in reality it does not and it shows. So they tend to be pretty slimy and deceptive in their narrative. It's ironic that they trust the Jews when it comes to the canonization of the Hebrew Scriptures and the books of that bible (which happened in three phases), but then go on to say that the Jews "got it wrong" in terms of its message and vision. Isn't it just "special and convenient" (to borrow from the SNL Church Lady).

[@christinewendt3660]

Purely a side note: I am someone who sang in church choirs, first Lutheran then Episcopalian, for fifty years, and I can tell you that the book of Revelation has no competition when it comes to being set to music. A few years ago I re-read it out of curiosity and realized that the book practically sings itself.

[@nosuchthing8]

The band Genesis has a great song based on revelation

[@tomscheffer824]

@@nosuchthing8 which one?

[@chrishooge3442]

Interesting observation. Perhaps it was written to be sung rather than read. Which version did you sing from? KJV? That has a particular melodic style. It's passed through the filters from Greek to Latin to English in our translations. This might result in some language to accommodate the English translation. More recent translations go back to the original written text and straight to English.

[@joygibbons5482]

@@nosuchthing8 Supper’s Ready probably as the end is certainly apocalyptic, referencing the antichrist and the supper of the Lamb.

[@G_Demolished]

The OG Little Shop Of Horrors.

[@deborahbarbour2241]

An episode examining for each NT book & why it's in the Bible would be fabulous. 😊 I don't think Revelation should've made it in & won't bother with it anymore.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

Well, you need to understand it as the original hearers were supposed to understand it. As a divorce writ to Israel under the Mosiac Covenant.

[@dwitede]

About the rant: It takes so long to unlearn the things i grew up with. Whether Mark learned from Peter is not so important as going all this time believing it because people taught it. Including me. Undoing that understanding might not be terribly important, but it's really annoying to have to undo it because it's impossible to tell what collateral beliefs I hold because of that. Probably a lot.

[@dominicestebanrice7460]

I once had a Jehovah's Witness tell me earnestly that "without the book of Revelation, you might as well throw the rest of the bible away". The two JW folk with him squirmed embarrassingly but didn't contradict him or encourage him to retract. I was blown away! Especially since i knew about Luther's opinion on it.

[@majafleur9646]

Was a JW for 44 years, and can verify this thinking....terrifying really.

[@Ryzmaa]

I look forward to your uploads ✨

[@michaelmelamed9103]

I’ve just had a revelation that the entire thing is ONE BIG PILE of REVELATIONS. Ask the Mormon elders and they will make you up one to fit the immediate moment. Rome is famous for its amendments, revelations and ongoing miracles.

[@nottheilluminati]

As a former catholic, I'm here to say, they taught me revelation was about the Mass 😅

[@JeannieSoko]

🤨 what??..what did they exactly say?

[@nottheilluminati]

@masque so I think the idea is that in heaven, all the time, the sacrifice of the mass is being celebrated. When we have mass on earth, heaven opens up, and angels touch the altar to join our sacrificial mass prayer with those in heaven. It's invisible tho. Then the book of revelation is an apocalyptic mass or something. Different parts of the sacrifice in revelation are supposed to match with the eucharistic sacrifice. I was not taught this in the more progressive mainstream parochial school, but later in the rad trad homeschooling circles. It's out there on the interwebs, I'm sure.

[@nottheilluminati]

@Christine Alyse that sounds right!

[@jamesclapp6832]

The entire liturgy of the Mass is found in Revelation. Simple example: Jesus' primary title in the Mass, "Lamb of God," is his title in Revelation, referred to as such around thirty times. Had you never attended a Mass you could probably put the liturgy together just from Revelation.

[@terrydillon9323]

I didn’t watched this and I am sure it was good, but was it seems the Bible teaches we were created to be doomed. I just try to believe in a loving creator who wants me to be free, have a good code of ethics, be kind and enjoy the gift of this beautiful blue green planet. Also I know I cannot begin to understand this infinite massive universe and all the whys of things.

[@dawnemile7499]

I really enjoy the combinatiom of Megan and Bart. Megan is attentive and asks very pertinent questions. Like Bart, I really believed in Revelation and that it promised that justice would be done. I don't have the same view of Revelation that Bart now has. It is not as harmful as he seems to feel. Revelation is supposed to show the wicked being dealt with and many in modern society just don't feel that people should reap what they sow. It's a peculiarly modern American paradigm.

[@BobSmith-eq9vs]

I’m glad it is available. All scripture is the work of man and gives insight into the ideas of ancient man. Viewed as literature it has value.

[@nutyyyy]

Absolutely. It's all equally interesting as literature.

[@JamesAgans]

Bart is an Enigma. He has spent his entire young life in education looking for the wizard behind the curtain, now he is spending his entire later life explaining how there is NO WIZARD. At 77 I sometimes regret that I did not do more with my life as an engineer, even though i did some pretty good things. I do love to listen to Bart and Meghan bring to light the Bovine Scatology that I was fed as a kid. It has become so clear to me that people like Paul and Mohammad were mentally Ill, on magic mushrooms or some other psychedelic, that you heve to be a fool to not see it.

[@Dvovsky]

I literally just claimed the exact video title as my seminar topic a few days ago. Divine intervention? Just kidding. Thank you so much Bart!!!

[@shanejohns7901]

It seems to me that this book 'Revelation' gives God's blessing to acts of evil that are done in the furtherance of good. It's a utilitarian sort of argument, theologized.

[@spc1689]

Dr Ehrman is infectious. Love his energy!!!

[@hoponpop3330]

The Apocalypse was questionable particularly in the East were it was never or seldom read in the Liturgy which was the main reason for canonization. Since North African councils Hippo and Carthage had great influence and the Bishop there named Augustine favored it so it was included

[@jerrie1946]

Aside from the interesting and fascinating content, I enjoy seeing what glasses Megan will wear during this interview. She has some very classy and beautiful choices that go so very well with her lovely colorful hair.

[@markfrancis4384]

He's inspired me to study christianity and try to understand it in ways 'christian' teaching typically doesn't allow. Its a shame christians can be so rigid in knowing absolute 'truths' ... they won't be able to learn. I feel 'learning' is the most beautiful path to travel.

[@davidnewland2461]

I take joy in learning and discovering new points of view.

[@hackman669]

Knowledge leads to understanding . Which leads to power. 😆

[@Tony-ph8vh]

I wonder if the book of revelation is an esoteric manuscript for initiates?

[@hackman669]

Join me and we'll rule the galaxy...

[@EXISTENCE1891]

Everyone should join the Ehrmanite tribe

[@jeffhresan2886]

As a once-confessing Christian, I've come to the understanding that there are a million and one interpretations of Bible scriptures. As I step back, trying to figure it all out, this is where I stand today. God is love; he wants us to love him and our neighbor. Our existence on earth is a teaching ground for our future in eternity with him. Let the theologians battle it out among themselves. They do this, and we should stay as far away from that conversation as possible. To recap, love and be loved is the order of the day! Peace.

[@cathykrueger4899]

Learning is not dangerous.

[@jeffhresan2886]

@@cathykrueger4899 It depends on what you're learning.

[@theastronomer5800]

The "new Jerusalem" sounds very much like a Borg cube.

[@hackman669]

Is that what they building in Dubai. 😃

[@salt1956]

I was never in a church where the pastor preached on Revelation. Nor did we ever study Revelation in a home Bible study group. It was too weird for me and for most other Christians. It is out of place in the Bible. It has a lot of content which seems more consistent with visions described by a person under the influence of a psychedelic substance, possibly psilocybin mushrooms, which was available. I wonder if Revelation was a first century fantasy novel using a biblical theme, but it was later mistaken as non-fiction?

[@ironmikehallowween]

Martin Luther’s concern was merited.

[@billmitchell2080]

A statement you made really struck me, "who wants to be an ignorant Christian"? Most Christians that I speak with instinctively become ignorant or angry when someone shows contradictions or parts of the text that don't fit their Christian narrative.

[@seanh0123]

When I was a kid I was a thoroughly indoctrinated fundamentalist baptist. I tried to read the Bible, but Revelation and to a lesser degree Genesis were the only books I could get through. They were like my comic books or sci fi movies since I was disallowed actual ones 😂

[@lukelamar8188]

Thank you, Bart

[@dubsar]

Hi Megan! I was not expecting to see you. I just opened the video and started listening... And I heard your familiar voice. What a good surprise.

[@TheDanEdwards]

9:42 "that everybody agreed on" - isn't it true that there are some Christian groups that have continued to not have the Revelation to John in their canon?

[@sadusattack2628]

LOVE the hair and glasses!!

[@StormOracle]

Thank you both. I always felt Revelation just didn't fit the rest of the bible. Thank you for a deeper understanding, Bart. Loved your courses on Mark and Moses. Two of my favs.

[@DonnaLang42rockglobally]

This whole thing about Judas getting too fat and exploding instantly made me think of Mr Creosote in "Monty Python's Meaning of Life".

[@kasperg5634]

Revelations, beloved by the fanatics as it gives them full interpretive leeway to herd and then fleece the sheep.

[@hackman669]

Very good. Your path to the Darksde is nearly complete. 😃

[@expatexpat6531]

Given that the early Christians believed the end was nigh, it surely makes sense even solely from a structural point of view to give the Bible a denouement, i.e. a description of the end of days.

[@hackman669]

It is true according to a certain point of view.

[@mendez704]

This series on the book of Revelation was excellent. Thank you very much!

[@happinesstan]

I watched a wonderful story today, about the monasteries in England. They made an awful lot of wine, but because the religious leaders took communion every day, there was not enough wine to offer communion to everybody on a regular basis. So they didn't. This resulted in a huge surplus of wine that had to be drunk by the religious leaders, in between communion, so it didn't go to waste. Modern economics in a nutshell.

[@theastronomer5800]

That's interesting, thanks for sharing! I started brewing my own mead a little while ago, which I usually drink when I read about the history of religion or listen to Bart :)

[@coreyrodriguez6955]

Great insight on probably one of the most confusing books in the bible. Thank you Megan and Bart!

[@danblackwelder5995]

Is this question for me? I would say to give the ‘Christians’ of Neros’ day encouragement by continuing the inherited apocalyptic tradition of the Messianic apocalyptic groups of the “Way”.

[@BlueBarrier782]

So the description of many eyes and faces on angels are common themes found with people on LSD or psychedelics. If the writer of Revelation was actually exiled, there is a chance they had eaten morning glory seeds which can cause similar visions to those on LSD. I think ruling out psychedelics influence is a huge mistake, as many of the imagery in Revelation is strikingly similar to common images people see on psychedelics.

[@allanvrc725]

There is definitely not a requirement of drugs to be involved in revelation. Drugs will actually be a barrier because they reinforce the aspects in the self with a belief system that has developed in a biological and genetically constructed human. Fasting over time is usually necessary and this releases the mind from the biological influence while refocusing belief and spoken words toward God.

[@Baysunrise]

It’s orbits of the planets are the rings within rings. Many eyes are the stars.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

It wasn’t LSD. It was schizophrenia.

[@BlueBarrier782]

@@allanvrc725 Certainly not a requirement, but it seems very, very plausible. Again, I think is just shouldn't be flat out dismissed. There is a lot of research about psychedelics, and many of the descriptions line up with universally common visions to someone with imagery of multiple eyes and faces, easily applicable toward research about the effects of morning glory seeds. I doubt the author of Revelation wrote it all during their actual experience, but likely reinterpreted their visions through their Christian outlook and view of Rome as an immoral and unjust government. How much your average New Testament scholar looks into the research on psychedelics could be a problem if they aren't even considering it for these kinds of passages.

[@BlueBarrier782]

@@jeffryphillipsburns Why do you think that? I'm not that familiar with the research on schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, but the description of the angels is very hard to ignore in comparison to visions experienced on something like morning glory seeds.

[@jerrygerza7565]

Zebardee! That's the puppet on a spring from "The Magic Roundabout". It all makes sense now, thanks Bart and Megan!🙏

[@gritty011]

This would be ok but those glasses and hair are disturbing

[@mageetu]

You poor darling.

[@scottpeterson7500]

The Book of Revelation plays a crucial role in the teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who have a very unique take on its meaning and application 🤔

[@danielshade710]

As with all 2000 yr old fables, who can say what was in people’s head? Certainly not these people

[@nori_tutor]

This is what drove me nuts when I was searching for this subject. When I looked for "Who wrote the Gospel of mark?" The first result came from a Christian website saying something along the lines "...The gospel of Mark was written by Peter's intepreter, Mark..." And I was like "With what evidence??" They mention Papious saying decades later. But this same Papious said that Jesus said in the Millenium there would be basically infinite wine, and also said the Gospel of Mathew was actually "The sayings of Jesus" wrote by Mathew, in Hebrew, which we have No evidence for. So why should we trust him? The guy said Judas became so fat and he blew up, WHAT THE HECK. Like, a guy said Mark was written by Peter's interpreter decades later and then bam problem solved?

[@ready1fire1aim1]

It is important to note that there is no direct evidence to suggest that YHW (Yahweh) from the Mt Ebal curse tablet and Yawheh (Yam) from the Baal Cycle are the same entity. However, if we were to explore hypothetical reasons why they could be the same, we might consider the following possibilities: 1. Mythological connection: It's possible that Yahweh (YHW) and Yawheh (Yam) have similar mythological significance in their respective cultures, and there could be a connection between the stories or beliefs associated with each name. It's possible that the same deity or mythological figure is referenced by both names. 2. Linguistic evolution: Over time, names and words can evolve and change. It's possible that YHW (Yahweh) and Yawheh (Yam) are variations of the same name that evolved through different linguistic processes in different cultures. 3. Syncretism: In some cases, cultures can blend or syncretize different religious beliefs and practices. It's possible that Yahweh (YHW) and Yawheh (Yam) are the result of syncretism between different cultural or religious traditions. 4. Historical continuity: It's possible that the worship of Yahweh (YHW) began earlier than previously thought and was present in the culture that produced the Baal Cycle and Hebrew Cuneiform. In this scenario, Yawheh (Yam) could be an earlier form of Yahweh, which evolved into the name used in the Mt Ebal curse tablet. Again, it's important to note that these are purely hypothetical scenarios, and there is no direct evidence to support the idea that YHW (Yahweh) from the Mt Ebal curse tablet and Yawheh (Yam) from the Baal Cycle written in Hebrew Cuneiform are the exact same entity.

[@happytofu5]

05:38 - What do you mean, Martin Luther's translation HAD the status like the King James version in germany? It still has in the german protestant church.

[@JeannieSoko]

Dr. Bart, thank you for the insight of bishop Arius, and bishop Alexander. Unfortunately for bishop Arius, he had a sad ending from what I heard. I think it was hilarious to me when Constantinople didn't care for the trivialities of the church fathers if Jesus is god. To constantinople jesus is god, i thought it was funny the way you said it.

[@sifridbassoon]

I think Bart said that the emperor Constintine didn't worry about the trivialities (and as far as I have read, that's probably true), but the city and population of Constantinople were definitely consumed with splitting doctrinal hairs (they spent a few centuries going back and forth over using icons)

[@JDDJR7]

Saying that you don’t watch TV is a meaningless statement. It used to mean that you watched cable, but that makes up such a small percentage of entertainment consumption now. Then you follow that up with that you watch sports, that is like the epitome of watching TV. So you definitely watch TV.

[@ericbilodeau3897]

According to Papias each grape vine will yield 2 sextillion, 500 quintillion measures of wine lol. I wonder how many of these magic vines will come forth as well? Might as well be 400 so we get a septillion measures, just for good measure lol. Although I don't know how much a measure is?

[@Phi1618033]

Ironically, the Apocalypse of John aka Revelation is probably the most Christian book in the New Testament. Jesus himself was an apocalyptic preacher/prophet and he would have preached/prophesied things not unlike what we read in Revelation.

[@arnulfo267]

We need more Bart Ehrman and less Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe.

[@mr-mizu]

"Man, I hope they include my book in the final bible, this could be huge...." -John

[@eblake626]

Megan is beautiful!

[@pcread]

Fear and guilt are some of the best ways to control a large group of people.

[@hackman669]

The darkside offers many abilities. Some unnatural. Palpatine 😄

[@beemrmem3]

It makes me sad, that in 2023 people still believe this will happen..

[@DavidKlick]

How much can you speak to the possibly that the author of revelation was on mushrooms when this was written? The 'visions' described specifically with Angels and new heaven/new Earth is widely seen by spiritual people on a mushroom journey. Any insights on this potential? Pamos is known for hallocenagentic mushrooms to this day.

[@raffaeleparisi]

As a human being in this comment section, great podcast!

[@glennledbetter6685]

are the bowls, trumpets, etc. to be read as congruent or consequetively

[@Lfppfs]

I love this podcast!

[@therealzilch]

Another absolutely fascinating look at the Bible and Christian belief. Thanks from sunny Vienna, Scott

[@tomrudolsen6235]

WE ALSO NEED THE BOOK OF ENOCH IN THERE ...👍😉😎👌

[@tomrudolsen6235]

THE ETHIOPIAN BIBLE HAVE IT ( THE BOOK OF ENOCH ) INCLUDED ....THEY DO NOT WANT TO RULE OVER THE PEOPLE, LIKE THE ROMAN CATHOLICS ....👍😉😎👌

[@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi]

These two doctors are so clear and expert in their presentations. They are true geniuses in the getting to the essence of each topic and speaking in accessible language. As a recovered Roman Catholic, the one thing the church’s teachings had correct, is they agreed with Bart et al. Specifically they explained that revelation was written in the Babylonian and jewish apocalyptic genre. That is, they were writing about the past, not the future. Revelation, as I remember, describes the terror and suffering that the Christians experienced under Nero. And it was only in early 1800s as the world suffered famine, disease, and cold in July for several years that the backwoods uneducated preachers of Kentucky and so on changed the meaning to call the pope and Rome as the future evil.

[@GilbertFleming]

I understand that when the Greeks were debating the Romans, the Greeks said that you’ve turned the Son of God into the brother of God. The Latin start that Jesus was coequal with God and not subservient to God not really a son but more like a brother of God? I’d love for you to talk about the Aryan controversy in more detail

[@werkzeugmann6224]

The bible, a book no-one understands but millions claim they do.. I listen to it (reading of NIV) every night, and the more I listen to it, the more I get logically confused as I compare it to the popular preachers and book writers of today. Especially as its interpreted by those who want to sell books, movies, and pack their pews with wealthy tithers...

[@paullotz3242]

Why does he not explain what is happening today in relation to Revelations?

[@HistoryandReviews]

Because there is ZERO RELATION! REVELATIONS DOES NOT MENTION MODERN TECHNOLOGY

[@jimralston4789]

Because nothing today is happening in relation to Revelations. Christians have been using Revelations to prove that the Apocalypse would be coming soon in their era throughout history. As a kid during the Late Great Planet Earth days, every Christian was sure it was going to happen before 2000. The date keeps getting pushed out and every big news event confirms some prophecy or other.

[@petergrant2561]

I imagine that the Vatican has the largest collection of Christian documentation. Is there a complete catalogue of the Vatican? Is access freely available? Is it possible that many early versions of Christian documents are hidden? Is there a central Orthodox equivalent to the Vatican?

[@HistoryandReviews]

The Catholics only allow access if you have the exact name for the document you want

[@Decision_Justice]

There once was a Central Orthodox equivalent to the Vatican. It was even more vast than the Vatican collection. The Library at Alexandria, Egypt, which held copies of documents from all over the world. However, When a specific Muslim Dynasty took over, the new Caliph wrote a letter that urged the burning of everything, since people should only have the Quran and nothing else. So it was all burned.

[@MusicalRaichu]

When the book encourages patient endurance because Christ will end all evil and God will wipe every tear, sounds like a book of hope to me. The literal word "hope" doesn't have to appear.