The BOX CANYON Turn - LEARN TO TURN THE AIRPLANE IN THE SHORTEST HORIZONTAL DISTANCE.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

MOST TIMES IS like a Horseshoe Turnback, not just a plain 180. You get close to right side, then turn as much as possible bank without stall warning on. Never turn shallow at first. That is the main cause to compensate with a steeper turn at end.... AND STALL.

[@jfbaze2001]

Love the video. It would be helpful to see the flight track on foreflight or garmin, or even CloudAhoy. Then we can see how much ground you used to turn.

[@juddanders]

Ditto. You should fly all three of these different types of turns (standard rate turn, turn at VX, and the last turn you did in the Box Canyon) For Example, starting from a west heading, and at a certain point (over a lake, house, intersection , etc) make your turns and overlay all three flight paths on the screen to see just how much distance you needed to completely turn the plane 180°.

[@TheAirplaneDriver]

Best box canyon turn is to know where you are at all times and turn around before you enter the box canyon. Short of that, this video is excellent.

[@Kevlux86]

Thanks for explaining that difference between the box canyon turn and a chandelle!

[@nicholaskennedy4310]

OK Good stuff here 44 yr Colorado pilot here Try this: Your probably going to be trying to climb already, say your at 70 knts full power. Head for one side of the canyon early. Get fairly close to it for max clearance for your U Turn. Roll 45 degrees and drop full flaps and LET GO of the controls. Never pull, never. When you've turned say 120- 150 degrees PUSH raise flaps and return out of your canyon. this is pretty idiot proof

[@FunFlyingPilot]

Right on. You have me beat flying mountains - only 42 years for me flying the Cascades. You described my Wing Overs perfectly. Got me out of a No- Climb position once.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

Demo that on a real canyon turn you say it will work.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

Do you know full flaps are mostly drag. They will kill the speed to stalllllll. Dead. ...

[@AndrewNorton89]

Practiced steep turns last night for the first time with my CFI. Looking forward to practicing this

[@andersjohansson1889]

Thanks.😃😃😃New to me, flying in Sweden. But I guess, few box canyons here. 😄😄😄

[@thomasl7932]

i practiced a hammerhead turn when doing an intro to aerobatics, might be useful as well :-)

[@DaddyRecon1]

Awesome explanation Jason!

[@VNEPILOT]

Ironically, I practiced Box turns during my Flight Review with Tyler Stanger, Cory Lidle’s CFI, a couple weeks before the NYC accident.

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

i USED TO TEACH IN THAT AREA. But I learned before how to do those tight turnbacks. Winds that day where from his right side and strong. He needed to turn left and quite tight. In that case he needed to go to the left side first, then do A Teardrop Turnback. He tried a tight tailwind 180 instead. Guys that dont know much will try that, then seen they are going to overshoot they will cut the power instead of popping more flaps. THAT IS A POWER OFF, FLAPS UP, ACCELERATED STALL. I bet he didnt know accelerated stalls and got into it, went down.. and hit the building. Practice those before the Teardrop Turnback. And 220 Turnback (180 Turnback Overshoots).

[@lostgriz]

Good stuff, thanks!

[@landen99]

Take care to keep the ball in the middle to avoid stall spin at low speed. Pitching up will increase left turning tendency so a left turn should be preferred to relieve the need for right rudder.

[@kbentch]

Excellent tutorial. Thanks so much! My 14 yo son and I are just starting out with pilot training. Videos like yours are very helpful.

[@raphaelchacon6996]

Life saving lesson... thanks!

[@jimmydulin928]

Excellent explanation of what I have called the energy management turn or crop duster turn or gunnery return to target turn. The second turn you demonstrated is this energy management turn. Yes if zoom reserve airspeed (hopefully cruise airspeed) is available, pitch up wings level to slow ground speed for a shorter radius. Wind management means we were ridge riding the ridge downwind of the drainage we are using up drainage toward the pass. This gives us the headwind in the turn for, again, slower ground speed and sharper radius of turn. Yes, we unload, at least to 1 g, the wing in the turn of any bank necessary to turn to the target which is the bottom of the drainage going back down drainage. The unloaded wing cannot stall. In the western mountains of the U.S., vertical space available in the drainages up to the pass is generally greater than horizontal space available. We need to be very near the downwind ridge, but also we need to use the vertical space available with the unloaded wing turn of any bank angle needed. A 70 degree bank angle at 1 g is entirely possible if we let the nose go down as designed for safe dynamic neutral stability. The supporting aerodynamic principles of the energy management turn are covered best in Stick and Rudder by Wolfgang Langewiesche. The law of the roller coaster teaches us that zoom reserve airspeed is altitude and potential energy of altitude is airspeed. What does the airplane want to do in a turn? It wants to lower its nose to prevent stall because dynamic neutral stability is designed into the airplane. The critical angle of attack with the relative wind is when the wing stalls... not why. Why does the wing stall? Because a pilot has pulled back on the stick. When vertical space is available, there is no need to make level turns. We are not IMC where pitch and bank are limited. For a crop duster turning steeply in a very small radius by unloading the wing and allowing the airplane to save itself, 200' of vertical space available is adequate. What makes the energy management turn so safe for him is muscle memory. He doesn't even think of pulling on the stick without zoom reserve airspeed, hopefully cruise airspeed. He doesn't even think of pulling on the stick while banked because that would overload the wing with the mathematical load factor effect.

[@markdesimone9801]

Even as you mentioned it I was thinking to myself that I always thought this type of situation was the "origin" of chandelles..

[@antoineandre2151]

Thank you for all your amazing work, advices and videos! 😊❤

[@cut2cure]

Very useful video and lesson. Thank you ! Also great comments to help clarify .

[@AkPacerPilot]

Both excellent maneuvers.

[@budowens6478]

Great job Jason, thanks for sharing

[@j.gregory5669]

Fantastic video: yet more content that will save lives. Thank you!!

[@RGCastro7]

Excellent information, Jason. Thank you so much for this!

[@jandejong2430]

Airspeed can be close to zero (instead of Vx) provided you don't ask anything of the wing: pull up aggressively to almost vertical while just not stalling, then let the plane fall over in an 180 degree turn. Pull as soon as the airspeed allows. Works without altitude loss. The manoeuver is an aggressive wingover, but short of a tail slide. Exercise at altitude.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

Totally agree; wing over is best answer - super tight turn and allow nose to fall; stalling threat is minimal if not pulling back (minimal load on wing). Two things to watch - air speed build up and altitude, but plane will come around in minimal distance. Always have enough altitude to perform wing over if needed - turn to drainage end of canyon. I practice wing overs with 500ft altitude loss.

[@FlightChops]

Came here to say this… but maybe it’s outside the scope of the sort of training most GA pilots receive? I’ve had a lot of unique training and flying experiences since basic training, so pushing closer to an aerobatic maneuver to reduce ground speed to near zero isn’t as far fetched an idea to me.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Yes I agree that’s why I think you should practice with your instructor. I didn’t exactly want to show that in a KZbin video the X seems to be a good target for the average pilot

[@mannypuerta5086]

deJong…sorry my friend. This is absolutely wrong. You need to read some mountain flying books and get together with an experienced mountain pilot instructor. In all my years of living in and flying the mountains (from Alaska to Idaho, Nevada and in between) with my 185 and being a Civil Air Patrol and sheriff’s office instructor pilot, I have never been taught nor taught what you describe. This isn’t the proper forum to teach the Canyon Turn. There is a large variety of published material available for folks to read, starting with Sparky Imeson’s pubs and Amy Hoover’s and Dick Williams’ “Mountain, Canyon and Back Country Flying.” The next step would be to find an experienced back country CFI who actually specializes in back country flying and who will teach you how to apply the proper and safe procedures for a long lived and enjoyable mountain flying experience.

[@jimmydulin928]

It doesn't have to be acrobatic to be energy effective. Any turn can be made safely at any bank angle so long as we release back pressure on the yoke to stay at 1 g in the turn. Nor do we have to give up power, it can be done at full power. We do a thousand a day crop dusting and using wind management arrive 50' upwind at 3' wings level over the next swath run. A shallow turn can be energy management. Pull up with cruise zoom reserve, bank as necessary, and allow the nose to fall onto the new target. Pulling to maintain altitude in turns is energy inefficient. Use your wings level gained potential energy of altitude to make the turn of less radius and 1 g.

[@scottmacdougall2843]

Nice video! Working on mountain flying currently. So, great points as they are fine points!!

[@timaidley7801]

Would the box canyon turn make sense in the situation where you've had an engine out, but feel that you have the altitude or runway length to do a 180 back to the airport? Seems like the smaller turn radius would be useful, but I don't know if you're going to lose too much height in performing it.

[@pilotblue6535]

It takes practice. Losing the engine on the climb out and getting the nose down to best glide and doing a 180 is a lot to ask. In a “WTF” surprise, if you can do a 180 with an 800’ altitude loss you are doing well. Unfortunately, the stall spin in trying to “save” the plane occurs all too often. While my engine is warming up, I go through my “engine out” review. “At this airport under 1000’ AGL, I'm landing straight ahead +-45 degrees”. The plane now belongs to the insurance company. You will never be second-guessed about sacrificing the plane.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

Altitude is always your friend.

[@brianb5594]

Great info Jason! Looks to me like the steep bank maneuver is like the back side of a lazy 8 with obviously much more bank, or like the beginning of a commercial steep spiral. Definitely need to practice that. Did you look to see over the ground how tight your radius was? That would be good to know.

[@philipkinney8361]

Thanks for another great video.

[@Coops777]

Awesome video and instruction. Thankyou Jason 😀

[@drcode4]

Wow! Great information as usual Jason. Something I'd like to practice. Thank you!!

[@timlittle6842]

Do you teach a wing over (zero radius turn) in the US? In Australia, though we don’t have a lot of High DA places, or ‘box canyons’ a 180 deg wing-over might save your skin - even if you potentially over-speed the flying surfaces, or over-G the airframe (possible, perhaps?) would you guys consider that a ‘last ditch option’?

[@Micg51]

Very important point in this video: you will not stall without back pressure.

[@jessegunderson2605]

Great video, but one thing I'd have loved to see is a GPS track from Foreflight or other showing say a standard 45 degree bank @ 100 knots or so vs your first and second manuever. While visually it was easy to see (especially on second manuever) how tight that turn was, I'd love to understand trully the turning radius differences in real distance.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

Easily done in Foreflight. I practice wing overs all the time - why, they are a ton of fun and very useful. A wing over allowing myself 500 ft of altitude loss will turn me 180 degrees in about half or less if turning into wind.

[@swalesmith1]

Great video!

[@user-iw3mr2lv6f]

Jason GREAT VIDEO! Thanks❤

[@scottmanley]

Since your conventional aircraft has a lower stall speed as at the COG moves aft you can make a tighter turn by having everyone in the plane lean backwards or having your co-pilot jump into the back seat. In a 60 degree bank at stall speed there's a 10% difference in turn radius between the most forward and most aft COG. (not entirely serious, but the physics work)

[@byronofcascadia8629]

Great to see you show up here having fun Sir Manley

[@AdrianColley]

You couldn't bring yourself to end this one with "fly safe", I notice.

[@stevejones7574]

In #2, I consider that an energy management turn (think surfing, turning up the face of the wave, trading kinetic for potential energy, at the top while very slow, you make a super sharp turn then go back down the wave. I do this all the time except I don't chop power immediately. I realize you actually need to use rudder if you don't want to risk a stall, but that's what those pedals are for folks. Learn to use them! Skyhawk is so forgiving lots of their pilots forgot (or never really learned) how to properly control an airplane.

[@marsgal42]

When I did my first mountain flying training I was startled at how quickly a plane (a Cherokee, in this case) could do a 180 if it really needed to. The flying schools' mountain checkride included a ridge crossing where the chart was misleading on what altitude you actually needed. The expectation was that you would recognize that it wasn't going to work, not attempt to out-climb the rising terrain, then do a 180 so you could try again at a better altitude.

[@nicholaskennedy4310]

When you 1st have a thought that you may need to do a 180 , DO IT Right away it's not going to get better

[@scottwillson5562]

Great video Jason. I'm a CFI and have never heard or tried these but will as soon as the weather clears. Would also consider teaching them as just evasive maneuvers from other aircraft if deemed necessary.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Perfectly decent evasive maneuvers for any "in air incident"... CFIT is a thing, and has claimed a LOT of lives. Evasive and "Emergency" maneuvers are much the same in aircraft as they are on motorcycles. The HOPE is that you'll never ever need them... BUT you practice, Practice, PRACTICE them, so you're just as comfortable doing them as any routine maneuver or task. You practice so that it's actually difficult to screw-up... not just to the point that you "can" accomplish. The point is that it's going to be the day "like any other day" when you think you've got a handle on everything, and you know where you are... You're confident in the instruments and everything's "fine" until that moment that it isn't anymore... Sh*t hits the fan FAST and you don't have a lot of time to "switch hats for crisis management" while taking on checklists, going through ATC, squawking emergency, trying to keep the aircraft in the air at the same time you're juggling what's actually wrong and what went wrong originally... AND then there's a mountain dead-ahead and the alarms are drowning each other out... If it's still a "specialized evasive maneuver", you might be shaky or hesitate. If it's the same old hat as landing in the crab or buzzing Uncle Joe in his canoe on the lake, you won't even need time to think about it... Your hands move on their own, and then feet, and the plane seems to magically just do what you will it to do... Maybe I'm a tad melodramatic for being more experienced (like 80% or more of my life on this planet) on motorcycles than in aircraft... BUT I stand by my point. The guys who REALLY get comfortable in emergency maneuvers, handle the tightest and most difficult of those maneuvers with the WORST terrain with all the sweat or tension of picking their noses. The noob's are tense, hesitant, jerky, and drop bikes all over the place on dead-level dry pavement with freshly scrubbed in "perfect" tires and pressure... AND cones are everywhere except where we put them (Thank GOD for sidewalk chalk!) SO while the majority of my aircraft time has been spent in "experimentals" (read "flying go-karts" essentially) I'm aware that planes have brakes up there, but those ain't NOTHING like the brakes I enjoy with any ground vehicle... I'd imagine for emergency maneuvers, it's much the same for "real pilots" as it is for us "real bikers"... haha... ;o)

[@MrBenkix]

So good- thx.

[@FlyWithRick]

Nice topic, next week practice in the sim at simcenter mike 👍

[@FunFlyingPilot]

I have been flying the Cascades for over 40 years and practice both slow turn and wing overs on a regular basis. But two things should be emphasized and the first you did not mention and is basic to mountain flying: NEVER fly up the middle of the canyon! And second, you mentioned very casually but can be of immense help: the use of flaps. Try it with and without flaps and you will quickly learn the importance. The wingover may have saved my butt one time.

[@jessegunderson2605]

Can you explain your wingover more, I'll be flying the cascades and doing some mountain courses soon, would love to learn from your experience. I've also been told flaps are one of the keys to these moves, almost like dropping a boat anchor and swinging around it. A++ tip on not flying in the middle of the canyon as well, easy way to cut your manuevering distance in half.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

Wingovers used to be a required maneuver for commercial ticket; don’t know if they are now or not. Initially pitch up 15-20 degrees, roll up to 50 degrees and just allow the nose to fall as the airplane turns and nose drops through about 90 degrees of turn. Airspeed will begin to pick up rapidly. Be sure you don’t exceed Vx. You can control with both pitch and power. At about 90 degrees begin to pull the nose back up and with the excess speed you will start a climb. If you do it correctly you will be at or near your original altitude at the 180 degree point. The key is to allow the nose to fall through the initial turn. It best be done with an instructor the first few times.

[@EsotericNY]

Non-pilot here but infinitely curious ...towards the end (around 6:50), when you say "release your back-pressure" do you mean straighten out rudder and/or elevators to reduce drag/increase airflow?

[@Parr4theCourse]

Great points!

[@eds.173]

Some comments questioned a similarity to the "impossible turn". In that turn you avoid using flaps. You're going for glide distance and any flaps lessens that.

[@n176ldesperanza7]

Don't forget the hammerhead. Requires minimal lateral room. But learn how first in an aerobatic airplane with an instructor.

[@danretief4363]

How about the wing-over? Would that work at all?

[@arnieduncan]

Yep

[@noname-zg8lh]

You doing split-S here? Wouldn't that be quicker, shorter turn-around?

[@MagicBiscuitShow]

Good stuff. In my opinion, this and takeoff (and low altitude on departure) emergency procedures are just not trained and/or practice enough.

[@landrus]

With the steep angle turn, why do you put power to idle, exactly? On the pitch up, you would gain more altitude with power, no? Is it that you want to keep from overspeeding the engine, when you go in the steep turn? Or keep the amount of things to do in parallel to a minimum?

[@jimmydulin928]

We do not need to reduce power. It is just a turn using the designed in safety feature of dynamic neutral stability to prevent stall. If we have enough airspeed, we pitch up wings level first to gain altitude and reduce airspeed to reduce radius of turn. If we do not have zoom reserve airspeed, we do not pitch up first but rather just bank as much as necessary to capture the target, the bottom of the drainage going down hill. The key is to release back pressure in the turn so as to remain at 1 g.

[@bartoszskowronski]

High Density, altitude vs High, density altitude Now I know why I always have think 10x about what that means. comma changes meanings.

[@wheelairrentals9241]

Could the second turn you demonstrated be a viable way to complete the impossible turn if, and only if, you knew the aircraft well and had enough altitude at the point of the engine failure to attempt it?

[@jessegunderson2605]

I think the issue with that is if you're trying th eimpossible turn at 500-700 feet for instance, via the video he gave up 250 feet to achieve it. You might be pointed in the right direction but you're going to land quite short I think. This move doesn't concern itself with effeciency, which you sure would want to if you're in an engine out. Can't get that energy back.

[@JavierBrent]

02:45 You dont 'TURNAROUND" anything. It is a 180 plus TURNBACK. When you finish it you will be close to the other side and keep going to over 200 degrees of TURNBACK. Again, you dont Turnaround anything, So Dont look outside much. Use the instruments mostly. Outside looking only will make you feel a lot of pulling up sensations and even confusion. And that is how guys stall and crash even if they had 10.000 hours doing other things.

[@tomdchi12]

Impressive that the 180 steep turn only lost about 250 feet. Particularly if you turned some speed into altitude at the start, I didn't realize that was possible. It will be interesting to try/learn, but still... not getting into that situation in the first place is the main thing.

[@JuliusG73]

He’s in the plane by himself. Gross weight might be a slightly greater loss of altitude?

[@richardseton7014]

Once a pilot achieves their licence the very next step should be Upset Prevention Recovery Techniques (UPRT) training, and if that is any good they will learn intensive wing over turns (similar to an aerobatic hammerhead) withi the capability of a GA or LSA airplanes G tollerance. So unlike what Jason suggested, slowing the airplane fown at the same altitude, immediately pitch nose up between 45 and no more than 60 degrees. Once established in the steep climb, (by releasing the elevator to a constant pitch up) the speed drops off rapidly. The next almost immediste step is to drop a wing, (nominally 45 degrees but depending on the airplane you could go almost 90 degrees) as the speed drtops to Vx (and remember no additional elevator back pressure (and therefore no stall) the airplane will pivot quite rapidly around and start descending on a 180 degree track within two to three wing span lengths of seperation between tup and down tracks, and you must pull power to idle the moment you start down) Actually with practice you can do the turn below normal stall airspeed (sometimes with a little bottom rudder to assist (as in a Hammerhead)). Note that the airplane will not stall (because you never exceed a stall angle of attack - keeping pressure off the elevator and never exceeding Stick Stall Position) even through some people call this a stall turn, you nerver stall. Now just as in all UPRT use PARE, that is Power to idle, Ailerons neutral, find the horizon, and Roll level, and recover from the dive using Elevator. With practice you will see perhaps 2Gs on recovery, an be an a 180 degree opposing track at the Same altitude you commenced the procedure. Easy! Don't try this without a competent instructor , because the first time your head gyro will be spinning, but after demo two with hands and feet on the controles you will love the procedure.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

@@richardseton7014 Great Explanation! I learned it over 40 years ago, and practice regularly. The only thing that I would add is that once learned it is an extremely FUN maneuver to practice!

[@flybobbie1449]

Pull up do a wing over rudder turn and reverse.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

Prove it. Do on a 2k wide 10k high canyon on a 172 at gross. PROVE IT, CHUMPY YOU..

[@flybobbie1449]

@@CFITOMAHAWK2 Well you would be nuts to put yourself in that situation to start with.

[@deani2431]

Another method.....fly as close to one side as possible and turn as steep as needed to avoid the other side. As long as you have the altitude, and do not pull back but let the nose drop, you will not stall or crater it in.

[@goatflieg]

If the crosswind is significant and you're flying the downwind side, turning into the wind to escape also turns you toward the upwind side of the canyon, where downdrafts may come into play if you end up close to the other side. Hopefully you haven't gotten yourself into that tight of a spot, but it would be a major drag to make the 180 degree turn successfully only to have downdrafts push you into the terrain. I guess you could keep turning to get back to the downwind side. Your thoughts?

[@AirmetSierra]

That would certainly be a factor, but on the other hand, the headwind you get when you're halfway through the turn would also reduce your ground speed and tighten your turning radius.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

On the spot, you're going to have to read into feedback as much as possible, to make those little adjustments and keep your nose up, but not too far up... Aside from a very few phenomena, you should still have some altitude to trade out for completing the maneuver into a reasonably stable flight path as well as attitude for the plane... AND if necessary, keep or kick the power to full, and climb until you're back to a relatively comfortable altitude as well. In an emergency, you're already on very limited choices... It's kind of the nature of "emergency" in the "Emergency Maneuver". ;o)

[@ozziepilot2899]

So at 3:01 in the video, you're banking left but your narration "comfortable holding right rudder" , this might confuse someone as a left bank and right rudder , well we know what that does (Slip) or have I missed something here as I've not done a box canyon turn per se. Nice video nonetheless :)

[@johnopalko5223]

I think what he was getting at was, at high power and low airspeed, you have lots of left-turning tendency. The right rudder is needed to stay coordinated. Pilots may feel reluctant to use crossed controls at low airspeed that close to the ground but, as long as the ball is centered, you'll be fine. If the ball is centered, you will be neither in a slip nor a skid.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Yes, thank you.

[@chuckcampbell3927]

@@TheFinerPoints Jason, Please allow me a question that will probably date me. Do you train your students to select a ground reference point like a water tower; Laying your wing on that point and pulling through tight 720° turns and each time running through your own wake. My instructor knew I was not comfortable at my young age in flying with extreme Bank angles. He noticed I was leaning away from the steep turns. After all of the turn practices were done we always went to left and right 720°and then we went immediately into accelerated stalls and then from there spins left and right. That broke me from my aversion to Steep Bank angles. That gave me a lifelong passion for aerobatics until this very day. "LIFE IS A PITTS" JASON I REALLY ENJOY YOUR WORK YOU'RE UPLOADS ARE FANTASTIC I would really like to meet you someday I believe you're a real Aviator not just a pilot. And thank God you don't come on with a banjo. 📖🛐✈️🐆

[@lynnkramer1211]

Show or instruct us on the best practices for an Ercoupe, which has no rudder pedals and no flaps.

[@Jmnp08]

Problem is.. most boxed pilots are already near stall speed, faced with climbing terrain, typically high density altitude, rotor winds coming over ridge or canyon sides... Good stuff tho. No doubt. Especially last part.

[@dennisnbrown]

Jason on the first maneuver does DMMS come into play as to not stall a wing?

[@speedbird300]

Surely if you are banked over steeply but not pulling, the wing isn’t doing anything much and you’re not turning much. No AoA no lift no change of heading.

[@johnjetpilot]

In the second method, why wouldn't more power be helpful?

[@drewwillmore8663]

I would say it's becuase power would increase the radius of your turn. Assuming your trying to keep that turn as tight as possbile, groundspeed and too-much airspeed would be your enemy. Power idle allows you to reduce groundspeed and maintain the tightest turn (radius) possible, while flaps will help lower your stall speed. Jason or someone else can correct me if I'm worng here. Note, that he also releases the back pressure in the turn so as to not put the plane into an accelerated stall.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

In a wing over more power does two things: increases the radius of turn and takes you toward the ground faster and altitude is usually a luxury not available in a box canyon.

[@FunFlyingPilot]

In a wingover excess airspeed is a threat even with no power. Add power and you will possibly exceed your Vx very quickly and may not be able too pull nose back up. Everyone should know how to do wing overs as they are a much fun as well as very practical maneuver.

[@paratyshow]

👍✅

[@loganamnosiss]

Not aggressive enough. Real situation calls for a wingover, drop a little flaps to lower your stall speed through turn then bring them up as your speed increases on the 180

[@NiklasRahkonen]

If crosswind in the canyon it would make sense to make your turn into the wind, right?

[@TheFinerPoints]

Yes. Definitely. This will have the MOST impact (usually) on the outcome.

[@homertalk]

A good pilot can run his landing gear on the flat side of the canyon wall if he runs out of room.

[@neependse]

Well, I am confused. Technique 1 - 15 degree bank at 60 knots = 1200 feet turn radius. You better be in a half-mile wide canyon. Why wont you do a 80-knot 45 degree bank turn? It will be less than half the radius. Technique 2 - This feels closer to what will be effective .. but why power to idle? Give it full power and 60 degree bank at 90 knots (remember stall speed will increase by 42%), you will minimize altitude loss and turn in 800 feet diameter. I am not sure I buy this one. Please convince me.

[@marccreal]

I was meditating about the math of this problem as well. First of all a disclaimer: I am not a CFI, all the following are just theoretical considerations and by no means meant as flight instuction. The math of your examples is correct. But when you use 30° bank with 60kts, the radius also is ~550ft (and stall speed only increases by ~7%). The thing is, that the radius goes with airspeed squared but also with 1/tan(Bank angle). As the second function is a bit hard to imagine, it is difficult to get an instructive picture about how the radius changes when you change both variables. As you pointed out in your example, shallow bank angles are quite inefficent, they increase the turn radius "overproportionally". With higher bank angle, the effect becomes more and more linear. On the other hand, reduction of airspeed always gives you a quadratically reduced turn radius. So reducing the airspeed is not a bad idea but you can kind of destroy this advantage with a shallow bank. About your comments on the second technique: the point is, that by letting the nose drop, you stay at 1g and thus the stall speed does not increase. You can bank 60° at very low airspeed without stalling (as you can see in the video) - this then obviously results in a much tighter turn than your example. Full power would probably not give you an advantage there but would cause the problem of a strong yaw when you pitch up which could result in an inadvertent spin (the last you would want in that situation). Edit: In the first version of this comment, there was an error: the radius goes with 1/tan not 1/cos. I corrected the text accordingly.

[@neependse]

@@marccreal I appreciate your comment. I was going to point out that hey, it’s 1/tan(bank) but good thing I re-read it 😀. I am not (yet 😀) a CFI. But I read the PHAK/ AFH and know trig. I didn’t want to be prescriptive - but what you pointed out at the end is exactly right. Let’s take it further: Really slow it down in a 60 degree bank and keep pulling to beginning of stall warning, while accepting descent as necessary. It turns in like 250 feet radius. Now if you added power, you just limit descent. I believe there is a Civil Air Patrol Mountain Search and Rescue technique like this - that’s what I learned. DISCLAIMER: I AM ONLY TALKING MATH. GO GET A CFI TO LEARN THIS TECHNIQUE. Anyway, I am sure no one cares about math 😫, as evidenced by the rest of the comments.

[@AdrianColley]

I was hoping to see an English bunt or split S. Of course they'd be crazy, but I was hoping anyway. They're how I reverse direction in GTA V!

[@EricMinio]

shame we can not "like" several times

[@tormozmomotok]

Why VX? What is the point of our training in slow flight to when we’re mushing around at 35 knots with horn blazing ? If you’re trying no to get pancaked into granite-cumulous aren’t you wanting to be as slow as possible?

[@marccreal]

I guess it's because If you are so slow, you can only do small bank angles without stalling and thus your turn radius will be large. Furthermore, I think he is also using vx to simultaneously climb with best angle of climb (which is an advanteage in a V-shaped canyon because the higher you get, the more space to turn you have).

[@IluvAugustiner]

I like most of your content, but this is wrong and dangerous in many ways. Airspeed is your friend, especially if you're at high DA and the engine is not producing much power. Smallest radius is achieved at Va (manoeuvring speed aka cornering speed) and max available load factor (3.8 g for most GA aircraft). If you are slower than Va, your aircraft will stall before reaching 3.8g. You cannot pull as hard, your radius will increase. You will need to trade altitude for speed to keep the radius low. Faster than Va and you might bend the aircraft. Get to know your aircraft and how feels/what it tells you. 3.8g equates to a perfectly flown 75° bank turn. Most GA pilots are not comfortable with >60° turn or pulling more than 2 g. Understand the v-g diagram. So here's what to do (for tight U or V shaped canyons): 1.) Get as close as possible to one side of the valley or canyon (forget about 500ft above and away from terrain) use every inch available. 2.) If above Va raise the nose, trade speed for altitude. If bellow Va, lower the nose and trade altitude for speed (up to Va). 3.) Bank to 60°-75° and ride to stall horn. You might have to have to trade (more) altitude to maintain Va. If you cannot maintain speed and have no more altitude reduce the bank angle and pull less. It's a whole different story for wide valleys, high DA and running out of power or hitting downdrafts. 1.) Fly Vx 2.) Shallow turns, maintaining Vx to turn away from terrain, downdrafts, ... 3.) Maintain Vx to the scene of the accident or life to tell the story that Vx saved your life.

[@topofthegreen]

better to just avoid that situation.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Agreed! There is a lot to say about how to choose / fly canyons and I chose not to get into that in this video. Maybe there is a part II ? 🤷

[@464RJ]

Great work - teaching ppl how to stall an airplane in the turn!!! One accident happened in baron east Sacramento with the same teaching the result was two fatal injuries sadly done by one of the best CFII DPE- plz stop your fkn BS and advertising for your stupid adventures.

[@speedomars]

You gotta show us the turn in the canyon. Just making turns in the open is no good for a video titled like this...

[@bobhealy4922]

LEARN NOT TO GET THERE !!!

[@bobcfi1306]

I sorry. Your stuff is not correct. You need to stop posting bad info. It is so wrong

[@cut2cure]

Please clarify your comment above. Thx

[@uroscadez]

very good stuff! Thanks!