The brilliant Stealth Strategy game no one played

The Commandos-likes:
Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines
Commandos: Beyond the Call of Duty
Desperados: Wanted Dead or Alive
Commandos 2: Men of Courage
Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood
Commandos 3: Destination Berlin
Desperados 2
Crookz - The Big Heist
Shadow Tactics BotS
Desperados III
Partisans 1941
War Mongrels
Shadow Tactics: Aiko's Choice
Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew
Articles:
Real-Time Tactics needs a new name - and here is why
www.mimimi.games/real-time-ta...
Mimimi’s Final Game
www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/
STEAMPEEK: Top similar games like Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines
steampeek.hu/?appid=6800
Wikipedia: Real-time tactics (game genre)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-ti...

[@Seba-rr3dx]

This is my favourite genre, and I will miss it heavily if there are no new games of this kind. I will miss mimimi games😢

[@MediaKitGaming]

I miss them too. Some commenters have pointed out that there is a new Commandos prequel coming out. So, at least you have that to look forward to… hopefully. Commandos: Origins | Announcement Trailer kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnmkanx3g5iNjposi=y-jn7FiImFf2mQdt

[@Seba-rr3dx]

@MediaKitGaming Thanks! It Looks great 👍

[@HozaifaKamal-bg5uh]

Thank you for the fantastic video. For the first time in the last 20 years, someone understands what I want.❤ We need more stealth-based strategy games.

[@pandorawolf8239]

Having had the pleasure of talking to the devs of mimimi at the gamescom, you could feel their passion about their game (this was back when blades of the shogun were released) And they hoped to revive the genre with their games. They tried several times as well to gain access to the IP from Eidos and from Pyro studios for themselves to make another commandos game. But this did not work out and resulted in blades of the shogun being made. I was saddened to hear when they decided to stop with their games but i can understand their position as well being it quite taxing on the employers and carrying to big of risks to take. I do sincerely hope what they did spark more games to be made in the same genre, and as we actually have a new commandos game in the works perhaps they succeeded :D

[@eliabonfardeci2604]

Yesterday i just realized Mimimi dismantled and im so sad...i loved desperados 3 and shadow tactics, thats why i decided to spend 80€ on aiko choice DLC and shadow gambit (full bundle). They need to be sustained 😢. Hopefully we will see more games like these. PS. I've read you haven't played the first Desperados, wanted dead or alive, please give it a try, is a must, even if its from 2001 is a masterpiece. Old but supergold.

[@dont_be_delulu]

Thankyou for making video on this genre of games. I love mimimi games. Currently completed 70 % of Shadow Gambit. ST, D3 and SG great games!!!!

[@ringo8567]

I am super sad to see Mimimi leaving us.

[@onesywashere]

Wow, i can't believe it took this long for KZbin to recommend this video when i searching for this type of video months ago. You single-handedly covered every talking point that i had in my mind about this genre and the prefect games from mimimi. Hope your channel gets the credit it deserves

[@MediaKitGaming]

It just did! Thank you, friend.

[@Straktisie]

The data is displayed beautifully and the transitions also are really well done. Take my thumbs up.

[@SolidusSnapes]

Truly is sad. They were genuinely good developers and their games were polished. People just don't know good games and would rather play cod every year.

[@pauls9034]

No, you just blame COD for all of your problems. Get over it.

[@cosmonaut9540]

This is amazing, thank you for this love letter to the tiny genre

[@aymenbrinis5839]

Also there is a game announced in 2020 that sounds interesting but it's not released yet, its name is : "The Stone Of Madness", it's a "robin hood the legend of sherwood like" game, the game takes place in the medieval era in europe and it's somehow very similar to robin hood game. I can't wait for its release

[@MediaKitGaming]

I hadn’t heard of this game. Thanks for sharing. If I looked at the right trailer, it’s about trying to escape from a medieval insane asylum or something similar. I noticed the marketing classifies it as real-time tactics, which probably won’t help anyone much.

[@Autopawn]

Hey, I just remembered there is a game called "Korea Forgotten Conflict" that is also of this style.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Good catch. Yeah, that seems to qualify. Thanks for letting me know. Insert “forgotten” joke. 😃

[@krazykalle4518]

Thank you so much. This is actually one of my absolute favourite genres, I have replayed all Mimimi games multiple times and even 100%ed all of them on steam and I was devestated learning about them closing down the studio. So chances are pretty high that I'll buy that game I've never heard of for whatever reason :D

[@jemandanders6160]

A stealth strategy heist game? How did i miss this?! Literally my favourite thematic and mechanical genres combined. You have my sincere thanks good sir.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

[@smorrs]

Fantastic video! Looking forward to checking out Crookz and others 😊

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thanks!

[@shateela.chowdhury3805]

I grew up playing Commandos.

[@1berbe207]

I still have hope there's gonna be good stealth strategy games in the next years thanks to Mimimi's contribution. Just to name one promising title: Roma Incognita.

[@MediaKitGaming]

How interesting! I didn't know about this one's development. I'm interested in any stealth strategy game that isn't another war-time sim. So ancient Rome catches my interest.

[@MatsuSenpaii]

I'm sure you've heard this already, but commandos is back baby! Commandos Origins was announced 5 months ago and a few days ago shows us the map trailer It looks promising and i'm soo hyped for it!! Anyway, love your video about this one, and thanks for making a topic about it too!

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thanks for the heads up. Those maps look amazing.

[@finallyanime]

thanks so much for making these...frickin gem dont stop. Probably are, but If you're not at a solid gaming company yet, keep these up because quality matters. Idk if it's war-ish...def not, but Invisible ink was one of my fav stealth strategy games. But it DOES use procedural generation...however in a very good way. Not generic at all & super fun. I advise anyone to try, made by Klei, who did Mark of the Ninja, a wonderful stealth platformer classic.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I LOVED the animation in Ninja and I finished the game. I started Invisible, Inc. but didn't get very far. I don't have any real criticisms of Inc. I have no issues with procedural generation in principle but I don't easily get into roguelikes. I just didn't connect with it.

[@chanakyajoshi3085]

My first game on PC and my favourite cant wait for new game comming out in 2024 commandos origins

[@faridronin]

Commandos Origins is coming this year so there's hope for more games in the genre.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Yes, hoping it does well.

[@ungreatfulduck750]

I would like to add something related to lower sales over time not just for this genre but to a lot mid tier developer like Mimimi who are struggling, leaving the business, and letting themselves be cannibalize by bigger companies or drying out buying IPs they don´t ever get to use; and I think it´s real and I don´t see anyone talking about it. We are seeing a bubble bursting in videogames and we already saw it in the 90s. Everything has double or tripled it´s price over the last 20 years, meanwhile games are becoming more and more cheap as indie devs keep undercutting prices in order to even make marginal sales while the price of big games is consider so high that most people will only buy one or two big games per trimester. And since the start of the digital era companies started to make tons of money because they simply stop spending on distribution of physical media and manufacturing it, that money went into making bigger and better games with bigger teams... short term this meant more money for game devs, but as the alure of an emerging industry went up as well as the people aspiring to make games, it doesn´t matter how popular the product becomes, you eventually will reach a roof. We are on that roof, we were there in the 90s when tons of company started to shut down or being bought by EA (just like now there are bidding wars constantly among the biggest companies and plenty of mid-tier companies like Mimimi close up due to several reasons)... There´s too many games coming out, they cost way more, they have bigger teams with higer salaries, but they cost to the user pretty much the same. It´s simply not sustainable, it happened to the film industry and you can see it now, where most cinemas will only show Marvel giant IP style movies while the alikes of Marting Scorsece or Wes Anderson have to relly on streaming platform that apparently aren´t really making that much profit from this endevours. This comment is so long that nobody is gonna read it, and most people would say I´m a doomsday prophet and that nothing will change, but we are already seeing the panorama shift, we saw it in the 90s, we saw it on movies industry... it´s happening, and it´s gonna get worst as I expect more mid-tier devs to bite the dust or being bought up by the big ones.

[@MediaKitGaming]

No, it isn't sustainable. And just like movies, games are trying to pump out sequels and spinoffs rather than risk a new idea. That's why I'm such a big fan of Horizon Zero Dawn. Not just a banger of a game but totally original. I'm glad it paid off for them.

[@ungreatfulduck750]

@@MediaKitGaming Couldn´t agree more. If the industry as a whole started to focus on quality rahter than quantity and getting back to experiment on genres, things will be better both for consumers and producers. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice provide me with a far better experience than the three Assassin´s Creed I ever played before deciding to ignore the series. But we all know devs, the biggest at least, care only for the short term profit, so they continue to overhype with marketing the bad ones while gems like the ones on this video get forgotten and lost in a sea of trashware, sequels and revivals providing nothing, and nowadays the live service model for every genre even if it doesn´t fit.

[@main_stream_media_is_a_joke]

Read the entire comment and have to say I enjoyed and mostly agree with it. The push for 4k gaming, when it was announced back before the PS5 launch had me worried as the dev's kept talking about the exponential increase in the development costs. That indicated that most of the AAA games would be safe bets....with little to no creative IP's, as that would be a huge risk to the regular profits that these big companies were used to. And as predicted, there has been a serious nose dive wrt anything approaching creativity in gaming. What we have is literally games as conveyer belt fast food products with barely any taste left in them. I did play Crookz back when it was released and was wondering why it didn't sell...or even got mentioned anywhere. Commandos Origins is coming this year I believe.....so at least someone is working in the stealth strategy space. I think The Last Train that was just released is getting some very good reviews and looks like it has some elements of stealth strategy in it.

[@MediaKitGaming]

@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke Yeah, I've bookmarked “Last Train Home”. I'm curious about it. I still can't find a decent video review of the game. I loved Mimimi for taking Stealth Strategy to places other than WWII. I'm bored with that setting. I'd love to see what someone could do with a sci-fi setting. Like a team of 4 taking over a galactic cruiser or something. Imagine all the creative ideas of Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew but employing sci-fi tech.

[@ungreatfulduck750]

@@main_stream_media_is_a_joke Men if you read my comment you deserve a medal hahaha, most common responses I get everywhere are "I ain´t reading that!". Yeah that 4K push is kind of insane, like most tech requierements. And the truth is that still to this day an indie with a good art direction still looks better than anything phtorealistic that EA or Ubisoft can crap once per month.

[@TheArnova]

wow I never knew about this one. I've played all of the games here but never stumbled upon crookz. Will definitely play it now . Gosh I wish they had made more games of this genre. After this will be patiently waiting for commandos origins and I guess that will be it. :')

[@jesus_flv]

Amazing video! And fortunately, or I least hope that, Commandos Origins comes out this year so people who were fans of this specific genre will be able to enjoy one last time with the masterpiece who started it all.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I didn't realize a Commandos remake was in development. I hope it does well.

[@jesus_flv]

@@MediaKitGaming Yeah, but not exactly a remake, seems like that game will be a prequel and will show the lore about how commandos met each one. I really hope the best for this new game.

[@rattleboned]

Mimimi games shutting down is one of the biggest losses in indie gaming to date-their games scream passion and care and for a team to have the goal of reviving such a great genre in such a good modern format it's unbelievably heartbreaking that it didn't work out. Shadow Tactics definitely resonated with players who haven't played this genre before (me) and I think the huge allure was not only the immaculate gameplay but the characters, art direction, voice acting, everything. Shadow Tactics is a bleeding heart of passion that really anyone can enjoy even if the genre isn't for them. It's tough because this genre is NOT easy, and a lot of people can and do get turned off even if they like the game because it's simply too difficult for them, which is fine but hurts sales on the devs end. Hopefully Mimimi's former devs stay in touch and stay optimistic about the future because if anything is for certain is that they know how to make GOOD stealth strategy games.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Right there with ya. It's clear their games are no half-assed turnaround. They really define their worlds and refine their mechanics.

[@TECC73]

Great Video! You deserve more viewers! Thanks for this Masterpiece. btw. there is also "Frigato: Shadows of the Caribbean", also a Stealth Strategy Game, but not good.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Frigato eh? Dang! I missed another one! I'll give it a few more months and then I'll make a follow-up video just recognizing the titles I missed/learned-existed-from-the-commenters.

[@TECC73]

@@MediaKitGaming Should the remaster versions also be included? After all, the developer has taken the time to make various games look better. Eventeull worth a mention?

[@MediaKitGaming]

@@TECC73 I'll consider it.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

Thanks for making this and cluing me into Crookz. I'll check it out. When Mimimi first said they wanted to rename the genre I was somewhat skeptical. I thought that real time tactics was perfectly servicable and while stealth strategy could work, there wasn't much more to recommend it. Watching your video, I've realized a large problem might be that rtt does sound like it should be a smaller scale rts. And one of the main parts of rts games is not waiting for things to finish, and instead going to do something else. For example, when you queue up a unit, generally it takes a few dozen seconds for it to appear. The efficient thing to do during this time is to find some other task that needs doing, such as building a new structure, or queuing up units at another building, or sending your army out. The idea is that the game should be near constant sweaty action, similar to what we see of Star Craft 2, where players' actions can reach up to 600 a minute. Ten actions per second! That really contrasts with the flow of stealth games, where there are long periods of observation and waiting, not just at the beginning, but throughout the game. On the other hand, stealth strategy does sound related to the strategy genre as a whole...hmm... I suppose part of it is that the way we classify games is often based on mechanics and not the sort of vibe or reason we play them. Have you heard of the Mechanics, Dynamics and Aesthetics paper? It says that games can be divided into three stacking parts. At one end are the mechanics, the actions that can be performed/ the AI performs in the game. Generally the devs have good knowledge of these, since that's often where games start. Then there's the dynamics, the ways the player acts and strings together mechanics. Stuff like not wanting to put Shadow Gambit characters in a fire fight since they have low health. Finally there's the aesthetic, the emotions a game brings up, and the reason why a player would want to play. I'd say Shadow Gambit nailed the aesthetic of being a smart mastermind, where you are outnumbered and out gunned, but, by using your powers carefully and being patient, you can over come your much stronger opponent. The paper argues that we often categorize games in an unhelpful way, by starting with mechanics, when we should start with aesthetics. The idea is that a game like Halo has a different vibe than Portal, even though the two both have a first person camera and projectile weapons. It's really interesting and I think they make some good points. Extra Credits made a video on it. I think your idea that real time tactics sounds like rts, but smaller, could fit into the MDA paper's view. It isn't about the mechanics, but the aesthetic, the emotions we get from playing the game that we should be grouping them by. By this view, Shadow Gambit would be a highly different genre from Total War's battles, since the former is about putting players in the shoes of a sneaky out gunned mastermind, while the latter has you going mano e mano with an enemy that is similar in power. Thanks for the video!

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thanks for your insight. I had not considered breaking down games by Mechanics, Dynamics, and Aesthetics. It seems like a useful approach to game analysis.

[@Straktisie]

Btw you mentioned the observation that the review numbers correlate with the total sales of a game. This phenomenon is called the Boxleiter method in the indie scene. In case you want to investigate this a little further.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thanks for the insight. I'll read up on it.

[@soroushsafarzadeh8321]

God only know how much I would like to play a stealth strategy war game like Commandos again.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Well, good news… Commandos: Origins | Announcement Trailer kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnmkanx3g5iNjposi=y-jn7FiImFf2mQdt You can also check out “Partisans 1941” (2021) and “War Mongrels” (2022)

[@brunoromano7934]

i like this genre too. Bought all the games to support the companies.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Dang. That’s dedication!

[@michaellopate4969]

This channel is far too small for how good it is. First off, were you custom designed in a lab to appeal to my exact gaming interests? And secondly, you have great production values, especially for a tiny channel. Really great stuff, couldn't click the subscribe button harder. Looking forward to seeing your next project.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thanks michaellopate4969. Your enthusiasm is worth more than a million followers! ♥ The next one will be out in a couple of weeks… ish.

[@Varekai0723]

Thank you for this. I just played the Crooks demo and will be buying the game. How did Shadow Tactics sell so many copies, far more than any other game in the genre? Odd how Mimimi wasn't able to replicate anything even close to that level of sales success again despite Desperados III, Aiko's Choice and Shadow Gambit all being excellent and very worthy successors.

[@MediaKitGaming]

That's a really good question. Mimimi's game quality only improved with each release. But their sales… yeah, not so much. One theory I have is that Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun came out right before an indie-game surge. A surge that is still going on. This means the choice of games has exploded for players. Players have more choice than ever, but with that comes 3 big negatives: 1) Players don't necessarily have bigger budgets to buy these games, so they have to pick and choose. 2) Players also have to budget time. Again, they have to choose where to spend it. 3) More games coming out means it's harder to learn about games when they release. Devs are desperate for buzz for their game. You can easily miss a game that's tailor-made for you and never know it came out. It's also harder to research EVERY game to see 1. If it's a good fit for you, and 2. If it's actually made well... assuming you're even aware it. It might be that the majority of gamers have a "been there, done that" attitude and want newer experiences. But I honestly believe there are just too many games now. Devs are competing for player's time, money, and notice like never before. I hope you enjoy Crookz!

[@JPH1138]

@@MediaKitGaming I think the number in the title of Desperados III might have also worked against it. Desperados is one of my all time favourite games, but it definitely isn't a big, famous ubiquitous title. A lot of people probably see a sequel to a game they've never heard of and just switch off right away. Other people who might be interested in the concept might think they'll need to play the first two games to know what's going on. Imo, they should have taken advantage of the game's prequel status and gone the Deus Ex approach, and called it something like "Desperados: Outlaws' Dawn". Part of why I think this is because D3 definitely had loads of publicity out there. Budgeting time is also true. I work pretty long hours and I spend more time trying to work out what I'll play next than I'd care to admit lol. I played D3 early last year, only finished Shadow Tactics last week, and the list of games in my backlog is massive. Whichever I play first out of Shadow Gambit, Baldur's Gate 3 and Lamplighter's League will depend on what's on special in the Steam store when I've got time on my hands.

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@JPH1138 First of all, kudos for even mentioning Deus Ex! I'm hoping and praying for another game from Eidos-Montréal before Embracer Group shutters them too. But I digress. Your D3 hypothesis makes sense. I might also add (at least as a Westerner) I don't find Western-themed ANYTHING very interesting. The setting is just meh. They could have made a stealth tactics game anywhere else in the world, at any other time, and I would have been more interested. I mean… I still bought and played D3, because… Mimimi game. And it's great! Make no mistake. I just don't give a crap about the old west.

[@liskeke]

there is definitely more Commandos "clones" than 13 games

[@charlesgeringer8489]

I would say that first point of only hand-crafted maps is not really necessary for the genre, it just so happens no one has done it yet. Obviously it is harder than it would be for an RTS or games wiht more action gameplay, but I do think it might be done.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Well, it’s just an opinion and my observation. The reason why non-procedural maps matter so much is because in a Stealth Strategy game, the placement of enemies matters so much. Developers toil for months to make sure their games are playable. They have to consider, enemy type, how they behave, how they react, the size and length of their vision cone, what distracts them, what comrades the enemies see, who sees them, do they pace, what’s their path, etc. A huge part of considering all those factors is the geography where they are placed, what obstacles obstruct their vision, what’s too high or low to see, and where player characters can hide. Mimimi’s games are constructed in such a way that if you didn’t want to use the team, you can pick off all enemies one by one. You just need to find the first domino… so to speak. At least that’s what they say. I agree, if a studio set out to make a stealth strategy game and also utilize procedural maps, I suppose they could find a way. I also believe that discussion would make development much harder than development already is. Having a procedural map, wouldn’t on its own, disqualify a game from being a stealth strategy game… in theory. But I argue, that hand crafted maps are integral to the genre BECAUSE of how important geography and obstructions are to the gameplay. It’s something that needs to be controlled. You make a good point.

[@charlesgeringer8489]

@@MediaKitGaming Think about it this way. If you removed the hand-crafted map-only requirement, which game (if any) not in your list would be allowed in? How diferent does it feel from the ones already listed?

[@MediaKitGaming]

I don't know. The only stealth games I can recall that use procedural maps are “Invisible, Inc.” (mentioned in the video) is turned-based, and “The Swindle” is a sidescrolling platformer. But I already granted you, “Having a procedural map, wouldn’t on its own, disqualify a game from being a stealth strategy game… in theory.” and “You make a good point.”

[@northernbudblazercollingwo1077]

Commandos 4 is coming!

[@M7Patologia]

Missed Helldorado

[@surebow7270]

there is one more game in this genre you missed also made by the developers of original desperados, they named it "Helldorado" and its the same universe

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thank you for the info. I don't know how I missed that one but I didn't encounter it while researching.

[@havel6060]

i wouldnt put helldorado in the list though, it has similarity but the mechanics are a throw off

[@hohuy1469]

Yeah, i remember that after i played Desperados 2, i immediately bought Hellorado but it didn't spark me up like previous versions, i last 2 mission and decided to uninstall it out of my computer

[@blipblap614]

It was big news in mid-September 2023 that Unity (engine) changed their license/pricing terms. I didn't follow the backlash, but I imagine it was a terrible blow for Mimimi.

[@MediaKitGaming]

It was probably a shock to Mimimi but ultimately shouldn’t have affected them since the Unity pricing model was reversed (due to major industry backlash) before ever going into effect. Mimimi had already announced their closure the month prior.

[@blipblap614]

@@MediaKitGaming Yeah, I watched Moritz Wagner's GDC talk. Really inspiring, huge respect for how well they understand the genre and their players.

[@linhvu3113]

What about Chicago 1930? Developed by Spellbound (the studio that created Desperados and Robin Hood)

[@MediaKitGaming]

I looked into it. It was a title I was considering for inclusion in the list. I haven't played it but it appeared to use fog of war (can't see in rooms you're not in) and abandoned vision cones. The gameplay I watched didn't feel like other stealth strategies. If you take away the isometric/top-down camera it doesn't have much in common at all with the other titles… as far as I can tell. But if you've played it, perhaps you're in a better place to make a comparison. What do *you* think?

[@linhvu3113]

@@MediaKitGaming I admit it's not clear enough to categorize it. However, in fairness there is fog of war in Robin Hood as well, and there are other similarities between both games given they were created by the same studio. For example, in Chicago 1930 you can "sneak" your characters behind enemies eventhough there is no vision cones. All characters - minus the lead for each side - are generic henchmen (relatively similar to the merry men in Robin Hood) with no distinct skillsets i.e. all of them can use every weapon, first-aid kit etc, though the effectiveness will vary. All in all, it requires a mix of stealth and brute force to complete the game, but again it's the same for Robin Hood.

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@linhvu3113 In hindsight, making fog-of-war was probably an unnecessary qualification for the genre... although most stealth strategy games don't employ it. But I feel like vision cones are just a staple of them… to the point that we *could* call the genre vision-cone-stealth games. Obviously, excluding Chicago was just a judgment call. There's a whole conversation to be had about whether games need/should be categorized into genres. Short answer: probably not. Genres only exist to help players find more games like the ones they've already enjoyed. Gatekeeping labels because of minutia is silly. It's just the approach I took for this essay. Check out the can of worms I opened when trying to nail down what defines an RPG. *When an RPG is not an RPG* - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpLRkGeGgK10mJYsi=ITbTiRAaxafcDsis

[@bcm-n7244]

I'M playing the game as we speak and loving it, unfortunately we live in times of microtransactions, and souless open world games with repetitive quests and hours of emptynes, even in movies the scripts lately are written by 2 year old's, even electronics are going down in quality, the whole culture of the world is going down the drain, everybody promotes and accepts shit, and besides the 3rd person and 1st person shooters, and overcrowded Souls-like games .. again copy and paste, the world is insane and true creativity and patience is dying. MIMIMI games created compelling characters on the level of MASS EFFECT, and awesome historical or fantasy settings but hey nobody gives 2 cents about real talent. Shame the world we live in.

[@MediaKitGaming]

So, are you playing “The Cursed Crew” or “Crookz”

[@bcm-n7244]

The Cursed Crew ! ... i was making an ovation to MMIMIMI GAMES !

[@eliabonfardeci2604]

Completely agree, I keep suggesting these games to my friend, even just to give it a try, but they keep complaining 😢

[@LiPiTu7]

you forgot Helldorado

[@paulgonzales1041]

There is a few more that you forgot to mention

[@gurriato]

Everything about Shadow Gambit puts me off. I gave it a chance and ended up pressing alt+f4 and uninstalling just after getting the ship. Nothing of what I've read about the game has made me doubt my decision. It would have been sad had they closed shop after Aiko's Choice, but after seeing their last game I honestly couldn't care less.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I’m curious what turned you off. Most reviews are beyond positive for the Cursed Crew. It’s beautiful and embraces traditional stealth tactics mechanics while moving the genre forward with new mechanics (character abilities). So what did it do wrong for you? Re: closing the studio: I’m sad when any studio closes. I want all games to succeed even if I play/like them. Saints Row 2023 bombed. I didn’t play it either. I was still sad when Volition got shut down.

[@sbmang4927]

A WW2 theme would have been more appealing.

[@Namgunsth]

Any1 knows the mod called: "destination paris"??? 😊😊😊

[@hohuy1469]

I do, the mechanic soldiers hit like a truck in that mod 😂

[@classkidz]

no one played?? thats totally hottest lineup stealth game ever..where do u live? haha..btw, cant wait commandos:the origin coming soon 2024!! wohooo!!

[@brunoromano7934]

did you try Gone Rogue?

[@MediaKitGaming]

No. But you’re the second person to mention it. The first bringing it to my attention. I’ve put it on my watch list. Did you play it? How did you like it? What did you like or not like about it?

[@brunoromano7934]

@@MediaKitGaming You only control 1 character, who is a thief. You basically break into doors, windows, safes, electronic systems, etc. Overall I found it an interesting game, what bothered me most when I played was the character's initial movement, when he leaves the immobile state and starts walking/running. I currently have about 50 hours played on Steam, but I remade several missions.

[@sbmang4927]

I bought it and returned it. Too slow and boring. Only one character.

[@brunoromano7934]

@@sbmang4927 but at least you tested it, I still think it's a worthwhile title, but it might not be good for everyone

[@TheRoyalIce]

I just don't understand why they didn't stayed with Shadow tactics, instead of trying to branch in different directions. Shadow tactics was a revival of nostalgia, while still being new and fresh by taking place in Japan edo period, the story and atmosphere was good.

[@MediaKitGaming]

While it’s mechanically inferior to the games they made after it, Shadow Tactics remains my favorite of the 3 also (4 if you count “Aiko’s Choice” separately). I think they made Desperadoes 3 next because it was already a known property. Thought it would sell better. But I found the setting less interesting.

[@sbmang4927]

Shadow tactics and Desperados III are the gold standard in this genre.

[@SamFighter007.]

HELLDORADO Also Plz Add

[@MediaKitGaming]

Other commenters have mentioned Heldorado and a couple other titles I missed. (I acknowledged the possibility that I missed some titles in my script) But most importantly, I cannot update a video after publishing it. Best I can do is delete it and republish, which I'm not going to do. Otherwise… yeah, I'd update it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[@youcantbeatk7006]

Isometric and overhead POVs are 3rd person.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I'm not taking that bait. But thanks for commenting.

[@chammy2812]

I really enjoyed the Demo for Shadow Gambit, but I was really expecting it to be at most $25 USD and was quite shocked to see it at $40. Personally I would have gotten it at around $20, but it coming out 2 weeks after BG3 and 2 before Starfield, I was still playing BG3, and was still planning on a $70 game purchase soon. (Ended up not get Starfield either after watching some reviews). For me, they really got the pricing and timing wrong and it didn't make sense for my first real dive into the genre. Which I think brings up an interesting point, when a game is in a more niche genre, demand is significantly more elastic and you exile potential newcomers that are unsure by having a price tag too high to try out. It may mean you need to lower some graphical fidelity to keep profits up, but when you rely so heavily on new users trying out the genre, you need it to be a low cost, so they are willing to actually take the chance

[@MediaKitGaming]

Good points. I think timing was a hindrance for them, but more and more, I don't think there is a good time to release games anymore. Indie studios are growing so fast, and even AAA studios are struggling to find release windows. I don't think $40 is too much for the quality of games Mimimi makes. But I'm not one to tell others how to spend their money. It will go on sale later. I'm 100% behind you on passing on Starfield. I did a whole video about it before it released. Bethesda games haven't evolved. Only their worlds have. But if you want to “dive” into the stealth strategy genre, I mentioned all of them. I'd recommend Desperados III. I never played D1 or 2, so you don't need to either. It'll go on sale soon as all old games do. -Best!

[@chammy2812]

@@MediaKitGaming fair enough. As a graduate student I have to be more selective with my purchases than I would like.

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@chammy2812 We all have to make choices. There's no shame in spending responsibly. I too, rarely buy games at full price. I bought Shadow Gambit for $31.99. But I'll be buying the Horizon Forbidden West PC release day-1! If you're not familiar with this site, I've found it to be a valuable game-deal resource. isthereanydeal.com/game/shadowgambitcursedcrew/info/

[@ungreatfulduck750]

You don´t really have to pay full price for anything though. I just made a super long comment on videogame price rates not being fair to developers since everything has raise their prices substantially over the last 20 years except for, precisely, videogames, the price of a movie ticket, comics... anything related to mass consumption of art. And while I santd by it, I also support that people have the money they have and they should be the arbiters of how to spend it, and so do I. I want to play all the games you just mentioned, and I have not (on my own personal account, played Starfield on friend´s console) because I see their prices currently way out of what I would consider fair or benefitial for my own personal wallet. That is not to say I´ve not spend those quantities, off course I have, but instead of buying one 70€ game, maybe I bought 5 for 10€ each that were made 3 years ago. Here´s where I think REALLY the overlap on launch dates work on videogames: People wanted to be part of the Starfield conversation, people wanted to be part of the BG3 conversation... people knew there wouldn´t be a Shadow Gambit conversation. FOMO is a real thing, a huuuugely big thing currently and you can see it on the reviews and conversations on these 2 games forum on any platform. Starfield is filled with reviews on steam mentioning how they bought the game and on hour 4 started to work wonky, and you can check those users messages on Steam, go back, and see them complain on Fallout 4 that Bethesda always make games that are broken on day 1, unreliable developer, they suck, blablabla... They still bought the next game on day 1. Or how about BG3 complains about sexual encounters? Nobody forces you to have sex with the bear, that option is only there if you pursue it... and yet people did that and then complaing about the game being "perverted"... The videogame industry, regardless of how old a lot of us may be and no matter who is bothered by this, is mostly aimed at young adults, children, and children don´t care about the quality of things, they just care to appear normal on the playground next to the other children and they do that by proving they know what they are talking about when another children mentions a cartoon or game. It didn´t matter when Shadow Gambit was gonna be launch, becuase the FOMO conversation about the genre already happened with Shadow Tactics... that´s the one everyone bought and review positively, because you had to, you had to play it and review it and say to everyone it remind you of Commandos 2, because if not, that day you were an uncool kid on the playground. After that, you just have to look at the sales chart, and you cant say "maybe people cared less about the west", because then they launched Aiko´s Choice and sold even less... It´s the FOMO and the gazillion games coming daily making harder and harder for regular folks to play anything other than the 2 or 3 games big enough to get promoted beyond their nitche audiences. I´m sure there are more people that bought BG3 or Starfield that have not play more than 3 hours than people overall that bought Shadow Gambit.

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@ungreatfulduck750 “I´m sure there are more people that bought BG3 or Starfield, that have not played more than 3 hours, than people overall that bought Shadow Gambit.” I'll bet you're right. Shadow [EDIT] _Gambit_ has DLC coming in 2024… I'll probably get it.

[@ImpreccablePony]

Wait where's Gone Rogue? WTF. I just realized you didn't count it. It's also way stronger than the Crooks.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Thank you for bringing Gone Rogue to my attention. I'll have to check it out.

[@ImpreccablePony]

@@MediaKitGaming I'm interested if you'd count it because it's one-unit game and the guards change routes sometimes so your very strict definition of stealth strategy might not work here. But believe me the game becomes much harder this way. I had a hard time even on easy mode with all skills.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I checked out its gameplay video on its Steam page. It’s a little different from the other “Commandos-likes” but I wouldn’t disqualify it for party size or guard patterns. I was simply unaware of it, and I tried to discover them all. Gone Rogue is a very new title and appears to be made by a small studio or one person (judging solely on the animation quality of the demo video and the budget voiceover). So it was easy to miss. There’s no genre-search that will reveal all the commandos-likes for a user. Any comprehensive search will inevitably include all the games in the Real-Time Tactics genre which is a lot of titles, and most of them are battle sims. So it's very difficult to track down Stealth Tactics games and not miss some. But I tried. One commenter pointed out “Korea Forgotten Conflict” and another pointed out a Desperados spinoff named “Helldorado” which another commented disagreed with (its inclusion in the genre)... and I was unaware of all of them.

[@ImpreccablePony]

@@MediaKitGaming Yeah I had no idea about Korea or Helldorado. I guess we all live and learn.

[@LVHCENE]

naah man we need mimimi to go back to make more games.

[@ungooglablegames]

It now has a whopping 204 reviews LOL.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I take credit for those last 3. 😜

[@ungooglablegames]

@@MediaKitGaming In any capacity, thank you for showcasing the game, I actually had it for a few years, probably from Fanatical, but would have died without ever playing it since I got 2000+ games. Also, I love your professional and articulate style, you're up there with Raycevick.

[@MediaKitGaming]

@@ungooglablegames You're very kind. Thank you. Hope you enjoy/are enjoying/enjoyed Crookz.

[@coolstorybrooooo7643]

What do you mean " no one played" I fucking played it

[@squishyrat]

FIRST!

[@eduardoburgosmontano7597]

Damn u and your cow

[@squishyrat]

😋@@eduardoburgosmontano7597

[@ImpreccablePony]

Shadow Gambit has annoying voice acting, a worse story, and weak character design. Let's be honest here, the mechanics are not all, I came to Blades of the Shogun and D3 for story as well. And that story was GOOD.

[@MediaKitGaming]

I don't come to stealth tactics games for the stories. Nevertheless, I thought the Shadow Gambit story was fine.

[@smorrs]

​@@MediaKitGaming I wonder if this played into Mimimi's downfall though Their production costs rose as they kept adding more elements, and a lot of that was adding side stories for two dimensional characters and hub world activities which at least to me didn't add much. Also the aesthetic direction doesn't seem to appeal to the core player base of the genre I love Mimimi, but I hope now that someone else will pick up the core elements of what makes these games amazing, perhaps more emulating a Shadow Tactics than a Shadow Gambit. It'll be hard to match their level of polish though

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@smorrs Blades of the Shogun is still my favorite Mimimi game. I recognize the many improvements in game features the sequels made. i.e. Desperados III was a better game mechanically. But as a Westerner myself, I find old-west stuff kinda boring. I was not excited for D3. But I bought it and enjoyed it because it's a great game. I was even less excited for undead pirates. I get why they did it… because some of the characters' movement and attack mechanics require supernatural explanations. I honestly believe if they just reskinned The Cursed Crew into a sci-fi-themed game and kept all the mechanics the same, give the action a sci-fi explanation instead of a supernatural one, the game would have sold better. It would have appealed to me more, for sure. Nevertheless, I bought The Cursed Crew and enjoyed it because it's a great game. But if you are saying none of the sequels have had the same appeal as Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun, I agree. There was something magical about the feudal Japan setting that wasn't there in the sequels. If you didn't know… various commenters have pointed out that a new Commandos game (Commandos: Origins) is due out this year.

[@smorrs]

@@MediaKitGaming totally agree! When Mimimi announced they were making a third game I was hoping for sci-fi too. I always thought sneaky cowboys was a bit of an odd concept, and was also lukewarm about the pirates of the caribbean-esque theme. SG's character abilities are super creative and cool though I'm looking forward to trying Origins despite never playing the earlier Commandos. I find it hard to go back to the clunkier gameplay of 90's games, and feel similar even for newer games like Partisans. Mimimi's buttery controls will be missed

[@MediaKitGaming]

​@@smorrs Yeah, their controls were great… although I had to remap the snot out of them because I needed WASD for the camera. I actually bought Commandos (cheap sale) just to make my video. Clunky describes the controls very well. For a first-of-its-kind game, Commandos is great. But it's not smooth to control. Re: playing games out of order… I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey first (1st AC game), then Origins, then Black Flag. That's the wrong order to play those games. ACO is the best of the 3, mechanically. My enjoyment of the others suffered from the comparison. Same thing happened with Aragami 2 vs Aragami 1. I returned Aragami 1 inside of 30 minutes.

[@MrEnsiferum77]

U forget Chicago 1930, but was terrible game

[@MediaKitGaming]

Various commenters have informed me of games my research failed to identify. However, Chicago is not one I overlooked. Rather, after consideration, I determined that the game disqualified itself from the Commandos-like genre (for reasons I no longer remember). It’s definitely inspired by the Commandos games and has some similarities but I determined it didn’t qualify for the stealth strategy label. However, you played it. I only watched gameplay. Maybe you can fill me in on why it DOES belong in the group. Thanks for reaching out.

[@MrEnsiferum77]

@@MediaKitGaming It's the same company that done Desperados 1 and 2. Also Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood, which are commandos rts like.

[@afigegoznaet]

Thanks, purchased krookz while watching the video.

[@MediaKitGaming]

Happy to help. I hope you enjoy it.