The Brunner software customizations we "forgot" about

[@aurel42]

I've said this on the Bunner forums (since I own the yoke you talked about): I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect X-Plane’s default C172 together with Stefan Brunner’s C172 profile (how much more authoritative can it get?) to work perfectly out of the box and show off what the device can do. Telling reviewers (or customers like me) that they just didn't spend enough time in the configuration software is just a way to distract from the flaws of the product, the software, and support. I don't believe that profiles exist which would fix every point Austin raised (about dampening, synthetic feel, engine vs prop vibrations, or even the yoke simply "slamming" forward because of elevator weight). If they actually do exist, Brunner support does not provide them, and Brunner customers don't share them. I was literally told that setting up an aircraft correctly using this software can take months of tweaking and comparing with the real-world aircraft. Sorry, I don't have that kind of access. If this product is meant solely for flight schools with dedicated full-time staff, that should be stated clearly. As an enthusiast who wanted to treat himself, I had vastly different expectations. The CLS-E NG might be a marvel of engineering, I don't know. But as least as far as I have experienced, Brunner does not seem to have the personnel or capabilities to unlock the potential of the product. Maybe they should've outsourced the software development and support. Maybe then we would get decent baseline profiles for default aircraft for the supported sims. Maybe then we would get a configuration software with a sensible user interface that doesn't just fake complexity by being opaque and barely documented (yes, I read the fucking manual top to bottom, and I know what's missing). Maybe then the addition of a third sim (DCS) to the software wouldn't freeze the support for the existing sims. While I agree that Austin's review of the CLS-E NG could've been better prepared (no pun intended), I also agree with his core argument that the device could be so much better if it was driven by data instead of guesswork. I don't know whether X-Plane does or can provide datarefs that could be used to calculate the forces the user of the yoke should feel through his device, I just know that I, as a flightsim enthusiast, would prefer that kind of data-driven approach to "months" of tweaking power curves and percentage settings for every individual aircraft.

[@aagguujjaa]

I have the Brunner CLS-E yoke. It is amazing... to simulate the feel of jets. For GA, It’s ok.... I disabled engine vibration, turbulence, elevator weight etc. If you want to fly mostly GA get something else, but if you like flying big airplanes, I highly recommend the Brunner yoke. Spring loaded yokes don’t simulate the feel of jets accurately. I am an airline pilot and I was blown away with the feel, customization options and build quality of the Brunner Yoke.

And now I watched the full video and happy to say this was more like the content I've gotten used to on your channel making me come back and being one of your subscribers. Thanks for doing this follow-up video Michael 👍

[@anthonydyer3939]

One other detail to note is that the trim up and down functions don't just move the resting position of the yoke, they also move the elevator as they always have done in X-Plane. This leads to amplified trim commands. However this can be turned off. You have to go into plane maker to delete these functions in each plane. This is described in one of the Brunner manuals. I've now got my Brunner yoke moving its resting position by using the trim wheels in the cockpit, not just for the elevator, but the ailerons also. Overall I do think the Bunner is a major step up compared to the Yoko to the extent that I wouldn't want to go back to spring loaded yokes. I do however hope that Stefan Brunner and Austin can collaborate more on this project. Austin has a very valid point that there are many functions that are simplistic in the Brunner settings. I would like for instance for turbulence and prop wash settings to be tied to the forces that are actually exerted on the control surfaces. This is something that x-plane offers through the datarefs.

[@rockyrowlands3652]

I have a Brunner force feedback yoke and I am thrilled with it having experienced several different yolks in the past. However, I am not an addict to 100% perfection in any flight sim hardware because I believe in that if one want 100% realism and perfection than one needs to train for a licence then purchase a real aircraft which would give the perfection some seeks. There is always a compromise between sitting with a desktop PC on a reasonable and acceptable budget which encompasses …I guess 90% of simmers. In hindsight maybe a product review of hardware in similar price range category along with the features they each offer. I must also declare that I am not a trained pilot and cannot therefore give an objective view regarding my Brunner yoke, but it is force-feed back, and I am glad I invested the money for a quality piece of hardware.

[@paultyler5989]

I read that Brunner has updated their Firmware and software with some of Austins thoughts in mind. Has anyone tried the new updates yet. If so, notice any differences?

[@thegood9]

Thanks for this Michael. I love my Brunner CLS-E, but the customization software can be daunting, so this is QUITE helpful. I also love the Honecomb, but it just feels so flimsy and cheap compared to the Yoko and the Brunner...

[@GrubbyGrupper]

I agree the software is confusing for effects I also have the CLS-E and having difficulty with setting up certain aircraft,The Just Flight Arrow is one. I cannot adjust the elevator travel enough th flair for landing I run out of travel and wind up crashing, but I do like it very much will keep trying!

[@wolfgangjr74]

So it just looks like Brunner and other flightsim makers need to get together share what data points they have in their sims and develop he proper FF values and triggers for each SIM. Obviously easier said than done but why not. I have been holding off on getting a yoke with the hope of seeing FF make a come back and really need to see proper support for said devices otherwise they will just disappear again. I just jumped into Xplane11 from MFS and am ready to take the FF plunge if Brunner and Austin can work things out with valid default profiles that wont torture sim pilots into guessing what a real plane "feels" like. We are relying on them to help us out as most of us wont be able to make those factual judgements. Looking forward to the FF comeback and great follow up video that covers some software functions.

[@StefBelgium]

It s not a question of being fair or not. It s question of taking advantage of the full capability of a product. Not so much stuff to do on the non ffb yoke apart of pluging the USB. Not the same for the FFB yoke. The Brunner comes with some profiles which are basics and require to spend some time to tweak it but then it s a feal pleasure. I did the same with XPlane 11 vs P3D, if I d have kept XP11 stock, I would never have chosen it over P3D. Native clouds, sky and water are way below the standards set by P3D. But I took advantage of all plugins available to enhance those aspects of the sim. Resulting in me using exclusively XP11 now. This is an analogy but same principle there. PS: you guys are a bit too arrogant sometimes that s not always giving me the desire to watch your vids! But you don t care about only one person's opinion right?! 😊😁

[@TheBaron481]

nice to see but I still dont know which to buy Yoko or Brunner. Even the Honeycomb is there in my mind !!

[@ebawebaw]

I thinkYou forgot about the turbulence setting, this lets you feel the wind in the yoke, i love it

[@MrScott_e]

ebawebaw, I searched the Brunner Forum for your name and did not find you. Would you be so kind and post the profiles you have developed you feel Reflect good performance and experience from the Yoke? Thanks

[@ebawebaw]

Hi, I did not created any profiles, I fly the default Baron 58 in Xplane and use the Baron profile from Stephan Brunner, and ticked the turbulence box, settings min 5, max 15, this gives me the best feeling, a higher max setting gives to much force for me personally.

[@MrScott_e]

ebawebaw thanks for the quick response. I don’t want to occupy Mike Brown’s space here so, if you’re on Discord please look me up at MrScott#8569

[@MrScott_e]

@@ebawebaw Love you Foamboard sim pit and would like to discuss it with you. Would you mind reaching out to me on Discord @MrScott#8569? We can also discuss Brunner hardware over voice as well. Thanks.

[@robertroslaniak3546]

Hi Michael. Love your videos with so much info for all of us! Need your help since no one knows how to answer this for me. Trying to set up my Saitek Throttle for CRJ200 or B737 with idle cut off switch. Can't seems to find the key for the cut off switch anywhere in Xplane. Any help would be very much appreciated

[@Ahmedblaser]

Excellent Michael! Thank you for the clarification. The Brunner has definitely some shortcomings when compared to a real aircraft but it is as real as it gets when it comes to flight simulation... Cannot be compared to a spring loaded device really. I agree with you that the 172 profile provided by Brunner isn't exactly accurate... I just consider it somewhere to start and fine tune things from there... Have a great day!

[@bkg5455]

Do you reckon that you could get a Redbird YK1 yoke to review? It's really nice to see a real-world aviator and polymath like Austin give his appraisal of all of these products.

[@rmm9676]

BUT... .what about how does the Brunner function in the simulator???? How is this followup useful given the previous comparison review that included how each yoke performs in flight. The point of many comments was that if the software of the Brunner is properly tweaked then the flight performance is extremely satisfying. Yet you choose to not go there?? Not useful. PS -- I have a Yoko and could not be happier. Price is high but the value in support of my real world flight training is superb.

[@NGC008]

Thanks for sharing, much appreciated. I own the Bruner joystick and out of the box leaves a to be desired. Just two or three basic profiles. Your video helps thanks. Anyone out the that can help me get more out of it I would really appreciate it.

[@davejones542]

Ok so let us be frank, this series of yoke reviews is now a mess..

[@dthillafap]

Why don't those who are displeased by the Brown/Meyer videos , make one of their own ? These videos provide information . Make of them what you will . If you critics have useful advice on how to make any of these controllers function optimally , then publish details . Or at a minimum provide a link to an alternative resource. Otherwise ad hominem , substance free criticism is just so much hot air.

[@5150aviation]

Thanks

[@scottskadsheim8248]

What is the estimated release date if Vulkan? And when it releases, will x plane 11 support multicore?

[@GhostlyDelinquent]

few years

[@Greazer]

Only 3 more years for beta.

[@scottskadsheim8248]

@@Greazer oof

[@scottskadsheim8248]

@@GhostlyDelinquent jesus

Maybe you could have invested some time reading the manual and learning the basics BEFORE shooting the review? That way, the original video wouldn't have been longer. It would however have been more serious and less embarrassing. Writing this after having watched roughly 1 minute of this video. Now, let's hit that play button again...

[@Greazer]

Vulkan update please.

[@gertjanvandermeij4265]

X-Plane 12 !

[@baicaix5176]

Under 30 mins

[@gertjanvandermeij4265]

I should just unsubscribe ........ oh wait ...... i already did . :-0

[@xforcepc]

Thank you!