The brutal reality of being Mormon in 2023

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Hello friends! 💚 If you find videos like this valuable, please consider supporting the channel! www.patreon.com/zelphontheshelf We also have PayPal and Venmo, linked in the description box :)

[@lianidri80]

Hi guys. I just discovered you. I am fascinated by cults. Loved your podcast specially your contagious laugh, boy. . Thanks for what you do. I am hoping for more "woken" people out of cults. You are doing a great service to humanity. Peace and love to ya.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

@@lianidri80 aww thank you! and welcome to the channel!

[@ladydainwinters8564]

51, approaching my 52 birthday. I left the church a year ago. It cost me my entire community and much of my family because I am older. It is hard, very hard, but at least I have my children. Realizing the truth and fighting my cognitive bias was extremely hard. I think some people my age want to leave but fear starting over. I'm extremely lonely due to my choice, but I would rather be alone for the right reasons then with a group for the wrong ones. I did this for myself and my children. I cannot live the lie any longer.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

We are (virtually) with you!!! 💗💗💗

[@ladydainwinters8564]

@@ZelphOntheShelf Thank you and thank you for your Videos. You guys, Nemo, and Mormon stories are what I listen to when I feel isolated in my journey of leaving the LDS faith.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Please try to find a community outside of Mormonism. There are many meetup groups in the post Mormon community, e.g. Thrive.

[@ladydainwinters8564]

@@charlesmendeley9823 I haven't been able to find a group in my area of eastern Washington. I would love to. I have looked. Thank you for your concern. If anyone knows of a group in Eastern Washington...I would love that information.

[@terrillmel]

@@ladydainwinters8564 This was the most difficult aspect of leaving the church for me. I realized my sense of identity came from having a group more than the religious doctrine (I think this is probably true for most members). Around that time, I read an account of a Mormon woman, who after Sacrament meeting, would take her kids to Sunday school and then sneak off to a different church service. I can't remember the organization, but she said it resonated with her and she found her new group there. Reading this account made me envious. I longed for a new beginning. I began to research other churches in my area and took a leap. I really like my little Presbyterian congregation. As context, I live in a small town in Utah and am married to an active Mormon woman and we have 4 kids. My coworkers are beginning to accept my decision and so is my spouse. Churches provide a sense of community in a way that I haven't found elsewhere. If you've only known Mormonism it's difficult to imagine a non-culty church. But they exist. My church doesn't tell me what to think, how to feel, how I should spend my time, how to see the universe, who my leaders are, which church is true or who my friends should be. They keep the heart and mind very separate and there is no need to give up critical thought for the church. Mormonism is definitely at the extreme end of religion. Generally, I think Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and nondenominational community churches are the safest. Universalists are great too, just not in my area. Good luck. I never imagined I would be attending a different church, but it's what I needed in my state of crisis.

[@Przylepek11]

My LDS Story. I joined the church in 2019 (19yo) and left a few days ago. How can you be persuaded by LDS as a young person in the 21st century? I live in Poland, where there are 2,000 total church members. We have no temple, school or even whole families in the church, there is no mormon culture at all. Even in the largest commune in Poland, there are mainly people from abroad who are temporarily in Poland. There was ONE entire Polish family in our city. Their daughter is the only Polish woman older than me who was born in the church. I also know ONE Polish boy who was on a mission and studied at BYU. In Poland, it's just an ordinary church you go to on Sunday and from time to time there are other activities, e.g. sports on Saturday. The application and library in Polish is very limited. In 2019, there wasn't even the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrines and Covenants. No one told us that these were sacred, important books. We don't read this at all. When you enter the name of the church in Google, only sources about the FLDS will appear in Polish and maybe one article about there being some missionaries in our country. There are no accounts on sm of church members or ex members because they do not exist. Nobody cares about Mormons in Poland. bigger problem is Jehovah's Witnesses organisation. So yeah really peacefully life. I have heard some "scary" stories from ex-members abroad, but such stories can be found about every church. Btw It's funny, because I have never understood how one could become a Jehovah's Witness, it's a strange cult! But when I started watching your podcast or mormons stories, cult to consciousness etc, I was like: are we and Jehovah's witnesses twins??? LDS in Utah and in Poland are two different churches! Poland is Catholic and conservative country. In the Catholic church there is confession, you have to pay for everything, there is a pope, so many things ins lds did not seem strange to me. What's more! In the Catholic Church, you cannot baptize a trans person and the greatest sin is using a condom and the contraceptive pill. Hormonal contraception is a "mini abortion" and it is difficult to obtain forgiveness of sins, so LDS seemed progressive compared to our law and church. That's why it was easy for me to become a member of the church, because it was nice, liberal and there were many things I simply didn't know and we still don't know because they don't exist here.

[@endyg9845]

I remember in Elders’ Quorum the bishop asked us to anonymously write down three things we were particularly grateful for, but it couldn’t include the ‘classic’ responses (e.g. ‘my family’, ‘my health’, ‘the Church’, etc.) I remember I wrote down ‘a strong sense of guilt- because it drives me to repent.’ In hindsight, having finally escaped Mormonism, that’s really f***ed-up.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Eeek haha

[@mr_ekshun]

Ohh boy yeah I skimmed an old journal entry of mine that said something very similar to that. I feel ya, hope you're in a good headspace and living a less guilt-ridden life now

[@BensHappinessNetwork]

Right!!??!!

[@xoxogigibo]

i stayed for so long because i knew what me being an active gay mormon meant for so many people. “helping others” and “being the change” felt like a slow death. once i realized that i am also a struggling gay mormon who needs help and needs someone to stand up for me, and I can be that person to stand up for me, i left and never turned back.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Congratulations for graduating. 🎓

[@ritamariekelley4077]

💙

[@xoxogigibo]

@@charlesmendeley9823thank you 💕

[@bettyoffdead]

The pandemic did wonders for my faith. I never really went through a grieving process when I left the church because getting space from it during the pandemic showed me how much better I felt out of Mormonism. I was okay with my faith falling apart, but I was terrified of my relationships deteriorating. I grieved those more than my "faith"

[@chlyri]

This is how it was for me. I started thinking that I didn't really want to go back to church, and then I found exmo content, and it feels like there was hardly anything tying me to the cult at that point.

[@-luckydrawz-962]

As a minor still unable to leave while knowing I'm bisexual, I can't wait to get out of this system that constantly avoids my existence. Thanks for the videos keep it up

[@bettyoffdead]

That was me for a long time so I relate 😂 I finally got out about 2 years ago and it's SO worth the wait! I'm excited for you to get to experience the "other side" 💕

[@stevehamblin1035]

I left after not finishing my mission I saw the bull shit 12 years ago

[@ppgranja3]

As a bisexual man myself, I understand 100% how you feel. Hang in there. The LGBTQ+ & ex-mormon community will always be here for you when you need it:)

[@gideonhaywood4668]

Ya'll are saying "getting out" but are you truly leaving a church that has no bars on you leaving. And being bisexual myself and Still a faithful member there's nothing being ignored. We've addressed homosexuality its set in stone. We love you simple as that

[@ppgranja3]

@@gideonhaywood4668 that's where I was a couple of years ago. Hopefully your eyes will be opened soon enough. Wish you the best.

[@Masterrogue123]

I came out to my wife last year ago (Ex-wife now) about the problems I had in the Mormon church. She told me that I was not strong in the faith and that if I left the church she would divorce me. I had a lot going on for me in the church. I was a missionary, Sunday class teacher, Pathway Missionary, went to the Tuesdays teachings, worked in the temple and helped to teach English to Spanish speakers. I also had a full time job from 8:00am to 5:00pm. I also made time for my kids and took my wife on dates. But despite all that I did it was not enough for my wife to hear me out about the problems I had with the church. Well I am no longer with the church or married. I am sad that I lost my wife but I am happier that I am no longer part of a money hungry cult. I am now pumping iron about 2 hours a day and I'll be going back to school to get a new career going and I'll start a new life. I hope I can find some one worth living it with...maybe a cat.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💚💚💚💚 cats are amazing! and even more amazing if you get two ;)

[@Masterrogue123]

@@ZelphOntheShelf than I will get 2

[@the-salamander4truth]

Believe it or not, the time WILL come where you find yourself happier than you have been previously. Cheers!

[@lisahinkle3867]

i am sorry that your wife divorced you. my husband left the church before i did. i can not tell my parents due to loosing them. i chose my husband over church. notice i did not say faith.

[@Masterrogue123]

@@the-salamander4truth thank you

[@anna-elizabeth]

I am Never Mormon, but my late mother was a lapsed or maybe Jack Mormon, she drank and smoked tobacco but we often had Visiting Teachers and Missionaries. We would feed the missionaries, spaghetti dinners and such. They were mostly nice young men and women, they were disappointed that I had no interest in being baptized. When I see Tanner, so adorable and passionate and fierce-when-necessary, I'm so happy he doesn't have to hide his light in the LDS ways anymore. Coming Out helped me quit the Doomsday Southern Baptist nonsense my late father was a Deacon of. I found all the strength I needed to get away from my abusive family, to face some serious health issues, and to learn critical thinking and to live as my best self after I came out.

[@alb958]

My older brother and my sister-in-law both constantly talk about their afterlife and how they’re finally going be able to relax and let their guard down. They talk about the fun things that their going to like my SIL wants her little slice of heaven to be beautiful and perfect weather and how she can spend her days doing the things she loves. It’s truly sad that they think that by sacrificing pleasure and “temporary” happiness in this life, that they’ll finally get what they want in the next one. I’ve literally stared at them with such pity and sadness as their eyes are just lit up talking about these experiences that they reject now but think they will get later when the “work” is done

[@lesliegardea5740]

I'm an ex-Mormon and my mom is still very active in the church. I have been struggling with how to accept that as kind and smart as she is that she cannot see how much of a cult it is and how negatively it has affected her relationship with myself and my younger brother. You talking about how their psyche may literally not be able to handle that change because she was raised in the church and been brainwashed her whole life helps me have a more compassionate perspective. It still breaks my heart that she will likely die indoctrinated in this religion, but it helps me let go of a lot of the anger and bewilderment I feel towards the situation at times.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💚💚💚💚💚

[@a23oj28]

My parents are the same. All these years where we could of had a normal relationship went to waste because of the religion. I tried to talk to her and used to have some hope that she might challenge her beliefs but I realize now that it's never going to happen. It's crazy how the cult can become so deeply rooted in your core beliefs that you will do anything to ignore, discredit or belittle someone for leaving instead of listening (actually listening..) to their reasons.

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

Just a ponzi scheme, I live in Eastern Idaho and subcontract in Jackson Hole Wyoming. It is like pulling teeth just get what you are owed by them. I am Lutheran since childhood and have never seen a more greedy and selfish group of people, just disgusting.

[@Aaron.Thomas]

In a sense, that are themselves victims of the ideology and belief systems, so the difficulty they face in having any hope to escape it and see clearly is not all their fault. We don't blame those who are conned by conmen for being conned, we blame the conmen, who prey on the vulnerabilities and fears and needs of those they con.

[@joannvandenberg4792]

I'm 63 and still in the church. My son has been trying to tell me what the church has done. When I read that the church was getting in trouble for its creative accounting, I started questioning all the time that I've been totally believing that the church is honest in all of its dealings. Right now, I'm very sad and don't know where I will end up. This has made me not believe any church's integrity. I am starting to believe that all of them are about how much money they can get from their congregations.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

I’m so sorry, we know how excruciating it is to feel like that. Know that you’re not alone and you are more capable of adaption than you think 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@joannvandenberg4792]

@ZelphOntheShelf like you said, a lot of people have been here. I will make the right decision in time.

[@hittsrus5185]

Sending love through the web, no matter where you are in or out of the faith ❤

[@paigejohnson8519]

I was born and raised Mormon in California. Going to BYU Idaho was a huge culture shock for me. I’m keeping a long list of crazy things that I have seen and heard during my time there. I’m only half way through my sophomore year and it’s soooo long already. Maybe when I graduate I’ll upload it online.

[@April-wt7zh]

I am interested in knowing what you are experiencing!!

[@lightning_skyyy]

i feel that, i’m currently at school in byui rn and i’ve already heard so many ridiculous things, it’s definitely hard especially as i start to come to terms with not really believing in the church anymore

[@paigejohnson8519]

@@lightning_skyyy omg we should meet up. I don’t go back until the spring and I’ve been going crazy being the only non believer most of the time.

[@lightning_skyyy]

@@paigejohnson8519 oh dang, im not on the spring track sadly but now i wish i was >

[@SA-wz9wu]

Hey same here!

[@mazdabazda2267]

I love that I got a mormon ad before this video so they really ARE supporting yall. Make that coin and also you both should model!

[@crashwithkirby6708]

For the longest time, I said “I stopped going to church” and things like “well it’s not for me, and there’s a lot of good stuff, still, despite the problems I had with being Mormon”. The longer I was removed from it, and the more I heard, the more I realized that even that was part of the brainwashing. I was leaving the door open for myself to return just in case. I didn’t want to disparage it, because there are good people that I love who are still in it. I never went on a mission, because I couldn’t get a recommend because of… ahem… a certain ‘habit’ I couldn’t ‘control’. Turns out that was a blessing in disguise. As soon as I moved out on my own, I left the church. It took a long time for me to understand how messed up my relationship to women was. I’ve thought about it often, and I’m pretty certain I was well on my way to being an Incel, because of how I put women on a pedestal, and I was always super awkward and unintentionally creepy. I was obsessed with not being alone, and as a result, didn’t really work on myself all that much. It’s taken me a while, but I learned to love myself, and to communicate my needs and wants and dreams, and I’m in a happy healthy relationship, and we have two beautiful children. Most importantly, I feel, I chose to have two kids because it’s what I want, not because I’m expected to ‘go forth and multiply’ 🙄 Uh… rant over I guess 😂

[@crashwithkirby6708]

Also, Jesus was a Socialist. Change my mind.

[@crashwithkirby6708]

Your conversation about ethics… I’m sure you’ve come to the conclusion that I have: there’s no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. The onus can’t be on the individual to make the world a better place, all we can do is treat others the way we want them to treat us, and plant as many seeds as we can today that will grow into trees that we’ll never sit under in our lifetime, but will provide shade and sustenance for future generations.

[@katigrace25]

I was born and raised in Utah as a Mormon. I have two older sisters, and we’ve all left the church but our parents are still active members. I left when I was about 19, and then had one period where I went back after a breakup with a non-member. I’m now 30 and much happier without the church. I have mostly stayed away from ex Mormon and anti Mormon content until the last year because I didn’t want anything to creep in and change my relationship with my parents because I am close with them, but I’m having a hard time understanding why they stay. I know that a large part of it is the built in sense of community and sense of belonging. I don’t think they’ll ever leave, but I do ask them questions and point out things I feel are wrong and they’re willing to talk about it.

[@steve-ok2090]

40:50… I think you really hit this on the head… this describes my current relationship with the church. And no offense taken, I think you’re right. And only recently have I started to come to grips with the fact that my insistence to stay in the social structure of the church, despite coming out as gay and announcing my intention to marry a man, was a form of bartering to bypass my grieving process. I believe my desire to stay as a progmo didn’t really originate with the desire to help my Mormon family at the grassroots level (even though I have observed that), but more so was a desperate compromise since I believed that, in order to be happy/fulfilled/etc., the church HAD to be a part of my life somehow… in my minds eye, I look back and see imagery of me pleading with the Mormon god… “I cant marry a women, and I need to accept my homosexuality, but I’ll be as Mormon as I feasibly can to make up for those failings”… I know this is ranty, but just wanted to thank you for saying that. You said it so succinctly, yet it’s taken me a year of therapy to grasp that’s what was happening to me. I really appreciate you guys.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Thank you for sharing!!!! 💚💚💚

[@flintfoster8010]

The call is coming from inside the great and spacious building.

[@jonjahr3403]

I love how at the 51:56 mark Tanner talks about church members saying "People need to stop drinking Coffee and start paying up" and yet at the Church owned City Creek Mall some of those "sh!tty establishments" sell coffee. It's like saying in a way the church can't take it but they sure can dish it out. They can't take members consuming coffee but they can sell it.

[@rigorcorvus]

the obsession with "returning to heaven" and being with deceased loved ones again really makes me sad tbh. my father passed away 5 years ago and my mother talks a lot about how much she misses him (and her parents) and how she can't wait to go see them again! it makes me so sad I just want her to be happy with her life now.

[@sjenson6694]

Any god worth believing in would never hold family hostage behind silly plagiarized freemason rituals wearing bakers outfits and playing patty cake in a building that looks like a trump hotel.. nothing about that makes sense whatsoever.

[@ritamariekelley4077]

I have been reading about Near Death Experiences for a long time. I am convinced we will be reunited with our loved ones because of all of those accounts. They give me faith.

[@u2sweetestallie]

The theme of this episode is fantastic. The questions, answers and insight. Excellent episode and I'm only 30 minutes in. The part about someone being in the 50's and for decades never heard a bad thing about their religion until the last few years is helpful to think about. Their view of their religion is deep and settled. We can't expect them to peel that onion easily. I like gaining insight to be more empathetic to my older family members. Helps me be less angry.

[@braidedgoatee]

Sometimes it is hard not to appear angry as "anti-mormon" as you start to realize the hypocrisy of a religion teaching the importance of truth and condemning lying when that religion was likely built on deceit. And so it becomes so frustrating to see those deceived by the religion not realizing the religion is actually the opposite of what they are seeking. Nothing brings out anger more than feeling helpless. Unfortunately, we often find it hopeless to be able to help others see what to us seems obvious, and therefore feel helpless, leading to anger.

[@April-wt7zh]

I am 56 and raised in Utah and one of😊 those who lives in the middle that realizes there is a lot in life to enjoy but I still do know in my heart the church is true and I know that I will not go through this life without sinning. I have seen many things that garner my belief but I still respect your opinion and completely understand where you are coming from. My children do not believe in the church and my son is Transgender, and if anyone were to speak badly of him I would absolutely come unglued!!! I wish you nothing but the absolute best in life and will continue to watch maybe we can all make a difference!!!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💚💚💚💚

[@slowdivingg]

i wish my mom was like you :((

[@April-wt7zh]

@@slowdivingg I appreciate that love…it has taken time and work…we are all important and deserve the best!!!!

[@Aelffwynn]

@hayden ☆ parents are people, and people screw up. That doesn't make it okay, or make it hurt less, I know. But over time you can learn to let go of the person you wish they were, and make your decisions about whether or not you can be around the person they are. I wish you the best. You deserve love.

[@kathryngailful]

The part about not being able to talk to your TBM family about the truth of their religion. Yes. It’s heartbreaking that it it simply a conversation that I know cannot happen. They don’t want to hear it. It would only upset/hurt/anger them. So my parents will forever be disappointed in me and believe I am lost and our relationships will always have that gulf because they are a part of a cult. The church literally holds my family members as hostages and there is nothing I can do about it. It really is a tragedy.

[@chlyri]

It's awful. I have people I knew I'd never be able to explain to, but what hurts the most is what happened with my MIL, who asked me why I decided to. I tried to explain, but one look at her face told me that nothing I said was going to stick with her. She didn't try to argue with me or anything, and she kept saying they don't love me any less... but they're now worried for what I could do to my husband, and that he and I will be separated. She's still nice to me, but it kills me that she thinks she's open and loving, but I can't comfortably talk to her anymore if the discussion gets anywhere near the church.

[@sjenson6694]

I've lost patience this last year and vented about it to all my family.. as expected they weren't too receptive to the truth but at least I've told them they're cult members and a dozen plus reasons why. It's not like our grandparents day when hard facts and history was hard to find, they could literally find out Joseph Smith is a con man and a fraud in less time than it takes to shower if they actually tried.

[@jaredfromhr2711]

It's so fascinating watching people talk about growing up within these cults. I grew up athiest, so it is such a different perspective. It's crazy how little control we have in our upbringing for the most part

[@2cgus]

I am not an ex-Mormon nor do I have any other religious background. I do struggle with living in the Bible belt and being gay. At 62 I do not feel safe or comfortable in my own skin and be who I am. You give me so much encouragement and peace of mind. I wish you could know just how much the two of you have helped me deal better and feel better about myself. I my Book of Stan, Tanner & Sam are supermodels! Much Love

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Ahhh that is so lovely to hear! I’m so sorry you don’t feel safe to be who you are. 💜💜💜💜💜🏳️‍🌈

[@BugEyedFreak1111]

You don't look 62 in ur pfp

[@getjuliet]

Can you move out of the Bible Belt?

[@ritamariekelley4077]

💗💙

[@savantianprince]

Can you move out the bible belt? Nevadais a very safe state. We have a lot of lgbt legislators in our state. Las Vegas and Reno are safe bets.

[@mandamoodouglas4573]

👋 started my faith crisis in may of this year (2023) I can tell you before my crisis I was feeling so miserable about life and the future due to end times theology. SO SO scrupulous and scared. Wondering if the everyday life I was living was worth caring about if it was all going to be destroyed soon. I was 10000% in an unhealthy mindset. Feeling much better now that I've been able to let some of that go.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

🥳💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@TheNickhis]

34:24 Them being bored probably plays a role, understimulation is pretty miserable, but yeah in general just living to those arbitrary, anti-human, cookie-cutter expectations, they have to be like "oh god I don't know how long I can endure this, but I have to endure to the end, hopefully it comes soon".

[@sjenson6694]

South park has several episodes depicting what actual Mormon heaven would be like and it's absurd how stupid and depressing it would really be if it was true.

[@MsArtistwannabe]

I left the church when I found out they contributed over forty million dollars against gay marriage. Completely disgusted me.

[@sjenson6694]

Yep and zero towards the rampant homeless problem right outside their offices too.

[@imanihess1439]

I'm an ex Christian but Ive found your videos soooo important to my healing journey from leaving my religion. I relate so so much to everything you guys talk about 💗

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Ahhh yay! 🩷🩷🩷

[@AlizzaSpeaks]

Oh my God I’m obsessed with this podcast!,, My favorite channel! Preachhhhhh

[@elizabethdavis5339]

One thing I've come to believe today is that it is harder for me to talk to people in the ward or listening to their talks. Yet I really enjoy hearing what I find hear on you tube from those who feels I do and are experiencing what I am.

[@TheSaintelias]

Letting the baggage of perpetual guilt, put on you, go is so freeing. Real happiness and peace happened once I told god I am done trying to get an answer from him, he can reach me when he wants. After all he knows me better than I know myself?

[@jamybailey]

Tanner I LOOOVED your rant at about the 20 min. mark. So interesting

[@annaxoats6479]

i really appreciate the conversation you guys had about the dynamic between mormon parents and exmormon kids. as someone who is both dealing with it currently, and helping my younger siblings live through it as minors, its a nuanced topic. i appreciate your guys thoughts and perspectives. :)

[@u2sweetestallie]

Recently moved back to SLC, I've driven around the city on Sundays and seem to feel like the church parking lots are far less full then when I was a member (back in the early 2000's). Is this really the case that less people attend church now? Does anyone know. I'm so curios what is it like going to church now compared to 20 years ago. I imagine its a lot less fun. I feel like they may have taken a lot of the fun out of what mormonism used to be.

[@sarak6860]

They took the fun out, and at the same time there's lots of information that is easily found on the web, that doesn't exactly uphold the "truthfulness" of the church.

[@BritteBjerga]

You guys. I’m on a roll with your vids right now and this one is one of my absolute faves! I’ve been in such a shadow space since Covid and I’m just searching for friends that are in your realm. Holidays are especially hard for me because I have to show up to family gatherings where my thoughts, words, feelings, and experiences can ONLY be shared through the narrow lens of Mormon-round-up in order to be acknowledged as valid or acceptable when I spend time with my family (whom I love so dearly). Thank you for sharing and for being who you ACTUALLY are in the process. It’s soul food for me and it’s been lonely living in a town where your validity as a person is summed up to appropriating yourself and your children to the cult, or standing out as who you are and being judged even more as an outed critic of ‘the brethren’. I judge others by the content of their character. People judge me by my ability to tow their religious line and my willingness to tip-toe around their long-standing family traditions. It’s hard! Thanks so much for your insight and compassion. It’s hard when you feel safe around Mormons, yet know they can’t feel safe with you based on their world-view. All my love to you both 💗

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Ahhh sending so much love to you this holiday season! I hope you’re able to experience moments of joy and laughter and peace despite the nonsense of Mormonism being so THERE 🙃🤍

[@Teelo_Green]

EXCELLENT 👏🏻 CONTENT 👏🏻 WITH 👏🏻 FANTASTIC 👏🏻 FASHION 👏🏻

[@getjuliet]

You guys should make a calendar with your "modeling." And sell it as merch. Add little thought bubbles to the images. You'd be hilarious. 💗💗💗

[@baileycherrington6800]

32:55 i go to byu and it’s been INSANE seeing them scramble

[@charlesmendeley9823]

9:55 "What we hate in others, we see in ourselves, Karen." What a statement, Sam! Could be a TikTok!

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

First of all, we need to see tanner model! On a more serious note tho, I've been thru a faith crisis pretty much all slone, I was able to share a bit of what I was finding out with a couple of close people, but just the tip of the iceberg, I was on my own for all the internal conflit, all the probably hundreds of hours of Mormon stories podcast, all the crossing references on the ces letter TO MAKE SURE of everything I was learning, all and studying, etc. I've felt so alone with my entire world crashing. Plus it all happened pretty much during my final year in college while I was in multiples internships and doing a nationwide research for (and therefore writing) my final thesis. It was a hell lot. But let me tell you, how refreshing it is to listen to yall talk for hours and knowing I'm not alone and that we do share thoughts and experiences regarding the church. Thank you for doing this 💕

[@circleception3916]

I was never all that mad at Joseph Smith until recently. I’ll be losing my best friend for 2 years to a mission and I’m not ready. Idk if he will be ok I’m so worried. I lowkey fell head over heels for him and I don’t want to see him go. What if he gets hurt or worse what if he hurts himself. That absolute pathetic excuse for a human, smith, made this all up and it has taken peoples lives, mental health, and money. I don’t want to see my friend go. He’s so much kinder than the church wants him to be. Im openly Bi he knows this. I drink coffee and I’ve gotten drunk he knows this. He doesn’t mind. Idk what he sees in me but im afraid that this stupid mission will make him see me differently as a queer atheist. I have no one to really tell this to because everyone around me is Mormon.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💜💜💜

[@catherineb5]

Just when I think I’ve stumbled across my favorite zelph episode I stumble across a new one !

[@ellenmoffatt2537]

Thanks for the hang sesh pals that was fun ❤

[@zlitteral1]

Hair game on point to both of you

[@aspieangel1988]

There’s things I have mentioned in former videos I disagree with. Having to ask general authorities for permission to help or correct anyone, being told I won’t be blessed if I involve God in my decisions and being told self reliance is the only way to heaven yet the Bible AND the Book of Mormon say to help and correct others, involve God in all decisions and rely ONLY on him and that only Jesus is the way to heaven. The church is teaching false doctrine again so yep I became inactive and left. Been shunned by my Mormon friends and family and they are saying hell doesn’t exist yet the Book of Mormon says it does! Church members are trying to bully me into unsubscribing from emails when I point out their cultish non biblical beliefs. My ward even tried to force me to give blood to the Red Cross saying my sins won’t be forgiven unless I pay Jesus back with my blood. Bunch of idiots! I called them out on their shit. I got bullied out of my ward and they called me an apostate and said enjoy the dry heat. They said I was acting like a Christian not a Mormon and that I was in sin for my spirituality. Yet the Bible says to be spiritual NOT religious! I am so GLAD I’m no longer Christian or Mormon. I’m a spiritualist now and will never go back. Christian’s are harassing me too but for different reasons. I feel free to worship God how I please now. Spiritualism brought me closer to God. Religion left me feeling empty and lost.

[@perpetually_empty_bucket]

100% support Tanner's modeling career in spirit. It would be in a monetary form, but I'm a broke human

[@SuperSarahwithanH]

I am super interested in the current mormon mindset as well. I am currently visiting home and my mom told me there were some missionaries in the area. My mom has been in contact just because she answers all of her messages lol but i actually do want to talk to them! If for nothing else just to offer them some food/hot chocolate and a break. I have never been mormon so I was wondering, does anyone have any suggestions for what to ask or say when I meet with them?

[@jolenejoleeene]

My ex befriended a couple of missionaries. He was just friendly, listened, and then shifted subjects. They became regular visitors, briefly proselytizing and then playing Xbox and/or basketball. He had no interest in converting, but he loved making friends. So maybe just do something similar, offer to listen if they will share a snack, then gradually redirect.

[@elizabethdavis8594]

I can understand the feeling of hurt and lost from the BoM and Joseph Smith. The one thing I still have a confusing feeling about is God and christ. Sometimes I feel they might still be a part of my life. Others times I'm still questioning myself about them.

[@sarak6860]

You are not alone. I threw out all of the stuff that is Mormon, but I have chosen to hang on to to my more traditional Christian beliefs. Many ex-Mormons completely dump anything to do with religion, but I have found that I need my Higher Power.

[@RJeremyHoward]

I dipped out in the end of 2020, 35 years in. I thought of all of my friends that had left before me. I looked up as many as I could remember and apologized if I had ever made them feel condescended to because... fuckin' hell, man, I caught so much when I started talking to people about it. I was lucky, though. I had three of my closest friends in the middle of their FC at the exact same time. And therapy for completely different stuff.

[@Mindyliz777]

Off topic but I would love if you would give us a tour of the bookshelf behind you 💕

[@bettyoffdead]

I remember when I was a little girl, I saw a woman with noticable vitiligo and I thought she had the prettiest skin ever! (I used to wish I had vitiligo so I could look as cool as people with it) It's so cool to see vitiligo being normalized in the mainstream. I think it's gorgeous 🥰

[@cinnamondan4984]

Love the LDS Church. Zelph on the Shelf is doing the Lord’s work

[@parkerplace2910]

For any reader here who understands how the church has, in some ways, become a watered down version of what it once was in order to try and appeal to the modern world, to us, the church has become very mainstream and hardly the religion Joseph Smith or Brigham Young presided over and prided itself in its differences and nuances from other religions. Seems like Nelson doesn't even dare to call anything a revelation, instead he calls everything an "adjustment". In some ways, the church is much easier now than it used to be. The temple ceremony is less threatening (no more death threats and enactment s and other changes), only 2 hour church as opposed to 3, no more Scouts and the Eagle award pressure, Young Women values downgrade, caffeine on BYU campus, more tolerance for the LGBTQ community than what once was, priesthood for all male members, missionaries able to call home weekly, etc. Kids in the 70s or 80s understood sexual sin from Kimballs "Miracle of Forgiveness" point of view that sexual sin next to murder in its severity. Most bishops today couldn't tell that to their youth due to the meltdowns and backlash they'd get. We had to just accept it and quietly deal with that guilt. They haven't said anything about multiple piercings and tattoos for years. The new version of "For The Strength of Youth" is more like a self help book, not a book of required guidelines. The examples go on. Yet, as Tanner brought up, some BYU staff today have been terminated for what they promulgated. The "September six" mentality is still stiring around in the heads at church headquarters. Some pathetic things remain the same. I mean, dang, we can't even have the Laminite Generation singing "Go My Son" anymore or Tom Trails movies in seminary. 😆 The good old days.... I've wondered what would really happen to today's membership if they brought back the church from 1900 or 1950 or 1975 and lived it for a month. Would be interesting for sure. Thanks guys for your perspectives and platform.

[@lilly_storm7]

I'm fresh out. I'm 24 and left because finding out I had DID (dissociative identity disorder) made me question everything I had believed about my past including religious beliefs. Turns out leaving was one of the best things to do to start healing. Took a few years of questioning but after seeing how small steps away drastically improved my mental health I was having a hard time denying the very personal harm the doctrine was doing to me.

[@ag-cj1de]

Tanner ur rant on apocalyptic religions and the effect of believing Jesus is coming ANY DAY NOW is too good fucking preach

[@h0rriphic]

It really does mess ppl up

[@JBJones66]

I love what Sam said about mormons being bored. That religion used to be full of crazy predictions and wacky speculation about the afterlife and spirit world, what they would call deep doctrine today was commonplace back then. Now they’re so desperate for people to stop leaving and criticizing them that it’s just a bunch of bland talk about the importance of the savior. At least the old church was fun albeit racist, homophobic, and misogynistic.

[@sarak6860]

I remember "crazy predictions" and "wild speculations" happening when I came into Mormonism as a teen. The church I grew up in was boring in comparison. In those days, the LDS church was getting a lot of converts, at the same time that the Jesus Movement was growing and exciting so many young people. I had visited with the Jesus People, but found Mormonism to be more exciting. Little did I know that about ten years later, the church would begin the slow process of stamping all of that fun stuff out. Is it a coincidence that as the church became more boring, the conversion rate started to fizz? They wanted the LDS religion to appear "respectable" to outsiders, thinking that this was the road to winning more converts. Essentially they destroyed their uniqueness, which is what many people like me had searched for. I had once enjoyed Relief Society, but it became dull. I really enjoyed the old fast and testimony meetings, but slowly the bishop and other church leaders lectured people out of saying the wild and crazy things like "The Three Nephites came and rescued us" and lots of Mormon Miracle stories that were quite outlandish. I remember a bishop gave my husband and me a strange, negative look when we used the word "miracle" to describe a very positive event that had happened in our lives.. They were determined to be-rid Mormonism of its magical tones so it could appear to be more like other churches.

[@michellesunshinestar]

I left in 2010? Before I moved into this apartment. I would have needed a ride to church. At least they visited me when I was in the hospital (for mental illness). I was a convert, no desire to go back.

[@scrosby9186]

I'm a person who is conservative in my faith but liberal in my politics. How does that work you may ask. Simple. If the Bible says we need to take of the needy then that's what we need to do. By example of Jesus and the apostles the sick are also our concern. If I am a follower of Jesus then that had better be my concern. If God so loved the world that means there is not one group of people that God doesn't love. So what excuse do I have to not love all people. The Bible also says we all stand equal before God. No one is superior to another. Racism is a slap in Jesus face. If we are not to use divination then seer stones are out. If bishops are to be the husband of one wife then what were they doing with multiple wives. Even King David was told not to have multiple wives. This is not a problem with just one group of so called Christian groups. Jesus return is no excuse to ignore the troubles in our world. Scripture says if you stand by and see someone abusing another and do nothing you are also guilty. James says if you see a person in need pat them on the back and just walk away your faith is useless. True faith takes care of the needy.

[@itz_dom.official]

Did you guys ask to have your records removed? I'm thinking of going about it but wanna make sure i do it right or that it's even worth it XD

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Yes!

[@8polyglot]

LOVE the Precious Moments top.

[@norastokes5486]

Given that I live in northern utah it’s very much moving to cultural control with my area maintains a lot of pimo

[@yeetymcneety]

"I've never seen God heal an amputee" THIS So many times I've seen people tout that he heals the disabled, and it hurts. I fully accepted God + Christ into my heart as a child, and yet I was and am still chronically ill physically and mentally. I know that my grandparents secretly blame me for my disabilities because I have now rejected God + Christ. It's infuriating!!

[@L2Sentinel]

I am happy I found your channel. The algorithm is recommending a lot of your old videos and I have been watching them all week, but unfortunately it's also suggesting pro-Mormon videos and playing ads for the church as well. Stupid algorithm doesn't understand that I am not interested in Mormonism, I am interested in stories from people who got out like I did. I love how complimentary your backgrounds are. Between the two there is a lot of coverage of the different Mormon experiences.

[@AJ-et3vf]

Nice. Thanks very much for this

[@amybryant8813]

As another KZbinr put it, "Every Mormom temple is a testament to an individual's complete abandonment of common sense and rationality" 😂

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

Those Temples are just money grubber banks, Mormons are horrible to do business with, cheap AF, if you can even get what you earned from them. Certainly NOT Christian in the slightest.

[@scottevensen2615]

We need a video of Tanner quoting Zoolander 😁

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

what is this a channel for ants?? it needs to be at least… 3x bigger than this!

[@ThomasJDavis]

21:12 That's a good point. As a believer outsourced your moral judgement. "Good" and "Bad" feelings are always coming from someone or something else. Like it says in Moroni 7: 16-17 _"For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."_ _"17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him."_ And as for that confusion of knowing whether or not some thought was your own or from the spirit, that question can never and will never be answered in LDS doctrine. David A. Bednar even said in an MTC talk in 2009, his answer to the question was, _"quit worrying about it! Quit fussing, quit stewing, quit analyzing, quit worrying about it!"_ In reality, there is no answer and this is a gigantic problem because if you can't tell the difference between your own actual thoughts and promptings of the spirit... then you don't have knowledge that a "holy spirit" even exists. Because we have a perfectly naturalistic explanation for your thoughts. Your brain! But even in the dualist context of having a spirit and body, you would have to concede that it's your own spirit that has the agency to think things, which is arguably what D&C 58:27-28 is saying. _"For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves."_ So even in that context you still couldn't claim knowledge of some external spirit influencing you... because you can't tell the difference. If you can't tell the difference then you don't have knowledge. And this simple fact precisely undermines the epistemic potency of the Mormon testimony. Your own mind is falsifying the core component of a testimony.

[@gilly_axolotl]

Not the Paul and Morgan intro

[@redcurrantart]

Really both of you should be going hitting up the McCarty Agency and see what they say. You both have very marketable looks.

[@Nicole-zr1me]

My family members and friends seem like it’s the same for them as it was like 4 years ago for me. Now BYU is doing A LOT to try to bust the CES letter and Joseph smith history before people get to it. I think the church talks about why people are leaving, so that It doesn’t shake the people still in. They’re masters at thinking for their members and it shows.

[@phishlipsable]

hugh hefner called quaaludes thigh openers and low key i bet this author loved the thought of that

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Oh boy 🤮

[@SELVESTiR]

So unrelated, but where is that bookcase from? I love it and I'm trying to decorate my apartment :))

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

I’m not sure, I got it from a friend of a friend! Haha

[@utahchika]

Wait wait wait hol up. Can you make some merch that says “you can’t burn down the internet”? Maybe a pic of Jo smith in there? 😂 because I love that burn

[@milesbrown2261]

40:50 holy shit that hit me like a rock i was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo feeling like this constant grief and shame and needing to help everyone and i feel like its left a scar in how i percieve my relationship with leftist activism where even now 4 years away from the church i have this savior complex where *I* need to be the one who makes the big changes and liberates us all somehow and every failing of activism and every new opressive law or problem is somehow my fault. it's agonizing. FUCK the church for instilling that savior complex feeling into me. I literally thought that god was calling me to create a new wave of truth in the church that would allow queer people the same rights and liberties as straight people. that there was some secret idea that god was telling me that he's been trying to tell the prophets and apostles but their hearts were hardened against it. it was a total mindfuck.

[@Maryfs1]

I want someone to explain how the ghost guy manages to manipulate people's brain chemistry. Like details. Electricity? Quantum vacuums fueled by gravitational magnetic energy? Why can't we detect it if it can manipulate things in the physical realm?! I need answers!!!

[@cbruce78]

I just want y'all to know that I left in January 2012, before Jeremy's letter made it cool. 😎 Jk, love your work and love all y'all who also made it out.

[@RurouniTenShins]

Holy hair cut!!… fresh new look, bruv. Edit: on the idea of the inability of a human psyche to break out of all the cultural programming that has shaped them since birth… Sam has talked about the phenomenon that most people who convert/change major cultural identities do so in the late teens/twenties… it would be interesting to see how many of people who do overcome the preprogramming and switch out of Mormonism also do so in that development zone of biological and ideological plasticity.

[@greenjean]

Who’s the philosopher Tanners talking about at 25:12? Would love to look into that speech of his!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Zizek!

[@greenjean]

@@ZelphOntheShelf thanks sm! I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how to spell it lol

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

@@greenjean I think this is the video I was referencing kzbin.info/www/bejne/oabKmqicfc1rZpI

[@markford202]

I resigned from the church back in 2019 and ended up getting my Masters in theology from a Catholic program. From my observation the only way Mormonism is going to survive is either in an anarchist system where everything is self-defined (much like AA) or as a folk religion similar to Shinto or Eastern Orthodoxy.

[@jmalko9152]

Very interesting 👍

[@actingqween]

Never been a Mormon, but Animal Farm, Mormon Edition: "All genders are equal, but some are more equal than others."

[@TheMayonakaMidnighter]

Insular Catholic communities are pretty much EXACTLY like this 😢

[@elizabethpower7897]

I’ve never been Mormon but I think I’ve watched enough of this and other ex Mormon videos channels that think I could probably make up a fake story and convincingly “bear my testimony”

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

Mormons are scammers, it is all about the money and they screw over employees ALL the time. Horrible excuses for humans.

[@taylormarine8890]

My aunt is Mormon and we went back and forth on facebook lol, but I referenced you and Alyssa Grendfel. She said she doesn’t let “ anti-Mormon” people affect her because it’s all lies and doesn’t represent the church. It was so funny reading that and also so sad because she’s raising her kids in the Mormon church. She won’t even open her mind.

[@abbeythomas8289]

I got a byu ad before this video 😂

[@ka8544]

Sam I hope you see this. I think you would really enjoy reading “healing the fragmented selves of trauma survivors” by Janina fisher.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Sounds No Bad Parts adjacent? ✨

[@ka8544]

@@ZelphOntheShelf yes lots of similarities! The author pulled from aspects of IFS. She also worked in Bessel van der Kolk’s clinic (author of the body keeps the score).

[@sydneywhite648]

Completely unrelated but I NEED to know where Tanner got that leopard print zip up

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

savers! lol

[@simplybet8104]

I support tanners modeling career

[@Lee-nl1tg]

I was the 1000th like on this video

[@Max_Johnson]

Tanner is looking great! Sam always looks great.

[@MlleJulliette]

A documentary or something like that on Mormonism came up as an ad before this 😂

[@shanepratt2766]

You sort of hit on something I wish you both (or John D.) would hit on and discuss in greater depth. A lot of us left the church when we were young. We believed all the bunk up until we could think for ourselves, but how in the holy hell can a 50 ish year old person believe in all this voodoo? How can a 50 year old woman, who holds down a job and is educated possibly believe that, say, golden plates were hidden in a hill in New York????

[@brebeeb]

I would love to see a video about how leaving church led you to veganism, Sam. I think about the link between the bible's "god made the animals for our use" attitude and mainstream meat-eating all the time. (I am also an ex-christian vegan)

[@collinshepherd1454]

Ha. I forgot all about Mervins

[@pupfish713]

I loved Mervyns

[@michaelsoftinc]

Love the Zizek reference!

[@lexiwalker1537]

Sam and tanner, please please please make a video reacting to the 3 Mormons video about an ex-ex-mormon !!! My dad just sent me it and it's jawdropping I would love to send a video back of you guys reacting to it. Love you guys💕

[@saegemehlfee]

Sorry to be so materialistic but i really wanna know whats on Sam's top here. Its such a pretty colour :)

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Precious Moments! :)