A deep, disturbing dive into Mormon dating culture

[@mhmmmyessir]

my sister made the mistake of mentioning to a guy on tinder that she was raised mormon. when they went on a dinner date he locked her in his car withnthe child locks on and revealed thar he was an RM and that god told him to bring her back to mormonism. she punched him square in the face and climed over him to get out of the drivers seat (the only escape door available) and got a lyft home which cost her $80 because she was living in a rural area.

[@piccolomouse]

That’s horrifying

[@leahtheanimationfan40]

I'm only about halfway through the video but I think this one takes the cake as the creepiest story

[@monus782]

That’s one of the scariest dating stories I’ve heard so far and I hope she’s doing better after that

[@patrikjoos8257]

the fuck is an RM.

[@rachabonespittz]

This is the exact reason why I carry a knife and tazer

[@somewhere4132]

This is just reminding me of the time I was in an extermely abusive relationship as a teenager. We were both in the same ward and this kid was sexually abusing me in a serious way almost daily. Our bishop gave me a blessing and said we would be together so I stayed for much longer and went through SO MUCH trauma because both the boy and the bishop felt that "god" had told us to be together. We were teenagers and he was calling me his wife. There is so much that happened because this went on for a few years. I was also dealing with realizing I'm bi. He told me he was saving me from hell because he was keeping me from dating girls. Horrible times. Happy to be far away from it.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Oh my god, I’m so sorry and so glad you’re away! 💗💗💗💗💗

[@lark7655]

bro mood!! I'm aro ace now but i was also in a horrible relationship with a guy as a teenager! we weren't actually dating because i was 14 and he was 17 and the apparent only reason why that was a no no was because i wasnt yet 16, peak mormon dating age, so we had to keep it a secret which just like,, made it so much easier for him to isolate me from people and tell me to keep everything secret. I was also realizing i was bi at the time (i now realize im aro ace but thinking i was bi was my first step there lol) he constantly asked me if i wanted to marry him and told me that in his patriarchal blessing that I was probably the woman he would marry. I'm not even a woman now, bitch. Absolutely wild (not really knowing the culture around mormonism and consent and abuse) that we have such similar stories. A small benefit of cults is that he's leaving on his mission soon so I'll have the mental peace of knowing he's far away for 2 years with no way to contact me. I'm very proud of you for getting out, and I hope you know that what happened with that dude was not your fault. He's a ass.

[@AChickandaDuck]

Holy shit that’s horrific. I’m so sorry! Straight up ecclesiastical abuse

[@lucydearden5625]

I went on 3 dates with a guy, but I let him down because I was leaving college to treat my severe depression and I couldn’t handle relationships. Once I moved home, he sent me a 3 page, handwritten love letter. That’s right. He dropped the L word. And I did not give him my home address. My mom wanted me to give him a chance, “it seems like he really loves you.” Since I was already hella depressed, I felt like I wasn’t capable of love. Fucked me up. Then, recently, I was still dating LDS men (no thank you). We were exchanging crazy dates, I told him a little bit of what happened (leaving out the emotional stuff). He didn’t think it was a big deal that he found my address w/o my knowledge. I don’t know. It made me uncomfortable, do you guys think it wasn’t okay? Or am I overreacting?

[@Samantha-zu3qe]

@@lucydearden5625 nah, finding your address to send a 3 page love letter after a date??? That’s pre-stalking behavior. Like ramp up to stalking. It might have been information available through the college directory though. Ramp up to stalking behavior if that was the case or if he asked a friend of yours. Anything else that was straight up stalking.

[@roziepymm1952]

I was the proud recipient of the greatest breakup line in BYU history: “You’re like the coolest girl I’ve ever met… but I haven’t met every girl in the world yet” Three months later he tried to come crawling back. Does that make me the actual coolest girl in the world? 💁🏼‍♀️

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

😂 YES

[@hopeahooper]

I think so 💕

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

That line he gave you sounds like every idiot on Tinder.

[@emilyrln]

Definitely! 🎉

[@TheLazyhomesteader]

Something else to talk about: I was married at 19 in rexburg and in our married housing complex the cops were there for domestic disturbances every night😢

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Oh Whoah

[@elizalange]

Oh my god!

[@susandixon3790]

Ok that’s a bunch of baloney. My daughter and her cute husband were having a stressful conversation because both sets of parents were visiting to celebrate a graduation etc. They were struggling with which parents to spend time with and how to handle all the food and details. They were outside and my daughter raised her voice and was crying. The neighbors called the cops. The cops came and accused or questioned them for domestic violence. They were both like…What?! Yes, they were stressed out, but seriously?! In Rexburgh the police are called over nothing. This ridiculousness doesn’t happen near me in a suburb outside of Denver. Total exaggeration. Remember the movie in the RM when the police in Provo shouts from his megaphone, “Ma’am drop the casserole and step away from the minivan.” Rexburg is the new Provo of the 90’s.

[@25MK]

Mormon dating culture is so racist too. I’m a black British woman and former LDS. I had so many experiences of white men showing interest but then everything getting ruined by: - not wanting to be seen with me romantically in front of other members, only in private or around non members - the parents of the men not ‘approving’ of me and quietly telling their son to find someone “more like them”. One even followed suit immediately after their mother told them too and ghosted me straight away without any explanation. - men who went on a mission to a predominantly black/brown continent and using it as a chat up line while asking very controversial questions like, “do you also speak African?”, “I baptised this person in Africa, you might know them too” - Making assumptions about my hair and vernacular like “wow, you hair is actually real?!!” Or “you actually speak such good English” The racism was so rife in the church even the black guys didn’t want girls who weren’t white and blonde. They’d rarely ask the darker complexion girls on dates or ask them to dance. That’s not totally the church’s fault, but it was a significant factor. In fact when I started dating after leaving the church I thought no-one would want me. Boy was I wrong. I realised I was seen as attractive to other people and not just seen as a stereotypical archetype before I even had the chance to speak. It was eye-opening for sure.

[@merricat3025]

I can't imagine. I watched Chantell a guest on the ex mormon stories podcast. The blatant racism was astounding. How a person of color could handle being a member is beyond me. I am not and never been mormon, so these stories are eye-opening. It re.inds me of DV relationships

[@brianwaller7383]

I’ll date white, black, Hispanic, Asian. Don’t matter to me but then again I’m not racist

[@Hobbit_boHo3572]

Thank goodness im not the only one who's noticed this as well. They wont even look at anyone who's not stick skinny either

[@evelien135]

I’ve heard this so often from Black people about the LDS church, but also Black people who were adopted into mennonites / Amish. In a world where there’s racism everywhere, a church should be a safe space..

[@saggguy7]

my 3 y/o niece is better at setting boundaries with relatives than i am! she says whether or not she wants to be hugged, which nicknames she does and doesn’t like to be called, which ways she is and isn’t willing to play, etc. always makes me proud

[@DancingQueenie]

That’s awesome. I learned boundaries in the church foyer when a woman hugged me long and hard and murmured “you’re not wearing a bra, are you?” I was about 35 by then. 😮

[@emilyrln]

@@DancingQueenie I legit shrieked in shock and horror reading this. Wtf??

[@DancingQueenie]

@@emilyrln Really creepy.

[@KrystalPancakes]

When I (38f) met my partner (34m) he was a volunteer youth pastor at a fundamentalist church in 2014. We started dating in July that year and I was his first EVERYTHING. The church did not like me or my influence on him so they took him aside one day and said the church or her. He moved in later that week. We have been together ever since. Funny thing, we ended up deconverting around the same time both afraid of what the other would say until we finally said talked to each other and discovered we were on the same page. ♥He is my best friend!! He is the first person I came out to as Pansexual when I learned the term for feelings I have always had. We don't really celebrate valentines but we did some edibles together and had a great night in laughing our asses off! ♥♥ Love y'all!!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

:) :) :)

[@IfYouSayStay]

I got broken up with because he said I “wasn’t the type of girl ready to become a bishop’s wife.” Just. Wow.

[@virginianielsen3480]

Asahahaha I can totally imagine my ex saying that to me

[@lindanorton2088]

Oh my gosh that made me puke a little bit in my mouth. He certainly looks smug enough to be a bish

[@AChickandaDuck]

When my now-husband and I were dating he almost broke up with me because his best friend/roommate told him I was “spiritually beneath him.” His reasoning: we watched Shakespeare in Love on a double date and I was okay with the sex scenes and didn’t ask to turn it off. (Neither did anyone else in the room, but apparently the onus was on me?) Thankfully my husband ignored him and married me anyway. 15 years later we both left the church, with me leading the way, so in retrospect I guess roommate was right. 😂

[@llamamama2910]

Spiritually ahead of him

[@EpolynPaprica]

Thanks for this video! I had lots of BYU friends who felt like they were disobeying god if they weren't trying to date. Like, they thought they needed to repent for not dating even though dating was annoying or anxiety-inducing for them. The same way they felt guilty for not wanting to go to church.

[@silja6838]

In Finland Valentine’s day is called Friendship day so I went out for cake and coffee with my friends. Happy friendship! 💖

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Awww that’s even better!!!!!

[@acatnamedm4529]

I also know several people who thought Olive Garden was authentic Italian food. I grew up thinking my mom was the best cook in the world. When I moved to the south, I realized that while she is a very good cook, she just 1) used spices aside from salt and 2) didn't cook vegetables to a sad grey mush.

[@DirtmopAZ]

The most attractive people on the internet

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Omg thank you

[@CaraBrook]

Fact.

[@fugician421]

These two are getting cuter by the minute! 🥰

[@ladystardust04]

TRUE

[@Myke_thehuman]

90 percent of that is their accent. Not even throwing shade, they are fucking cute.

[@thisisjeff9845]

Telling the LDS single women not to say no to dates explains why I had so much luck getting dates when I was in the YSA.

[@brianwaller7383]

Meanwhile I’ve been ghosted and ignored by literally every single single sister I tried to date. One of the reasons why I left.

[@thisisjeff9845]

@@brianwaller7383 That sucks, maybe I really do have game. I'll have to do some experimentation and get back to you.

[@brianwaller7383]

@@thisisjeff9845 yeah it’s over for me. I have no game, no personality, introverted and jaded from being relentless rejected . I simply gave up and admitted defeat. Dating, relationships and being a father just isn’t in the cards for me. So instead I’m focusing on hobbies and interests.

[@thisisjeff9845]

@@brianwaller7383 For some people that's enough.

[@ace_of_cakes]

Not Mormon but weirdly have a cringe Mormon dating story: I was 17 and lifeguarding at the Y. I had been doing so for a year or two and had seen many regulars often enough to know their faces. There was this one dude that I knew was a regular, but I didn't know his name (as a lifeguard you don't really talk to people a lot). I'm really bad at judging age, but he was at least 30, if not 40-50. During one of my shifts, he came up to me and mentioned that he had seen me the previous week at another Y (I was getting recertified as a lifeguard there) and then asked me what religion I was. I answered "Christian" (cause that's how I was raised and that's typically your safest answer in this country, although I was already agnostic at the time). He asked me what type of Christian, and I said "Protestant", he asked me what type and I said "Dutch Reformed". At this point, I was already uncomfortable, but one of the many sucky things about being a lifeguard is that you can't just escape to a back room if someone's being creepy. So then he said, and I quote, "If we started dating, would you consider converting to Mormonism?". I kinda blacked out at this point but I think I said something along the lines of "...uh... I need to check the chemicals in the pool." I then took my sweet time running the chemical tests for the pool even though it was not time to do so, and managed to subtly wave down my coworker and convince him to guard both pools for a hot minute while I ran to the bathroom. When I got back the guy was gone I think, either that or he was swimming. But either way, he didn't bother me ever again, thank gods. My sister and I like to debate who's lifeguard encounter was weirder, my creepy Mormon suitor or the guy who tried to convince her the Earth is flat during one of her shifts. Edit: after hearing all of these stories, I don't even know if my story counts as weird. Seems like I got off lucky. At least the guy didn't try to tell me that God told him He wanted us to be together.

[@jessasmith2349]

I totally agree that Mormons are unaccustomed to thinking with nuance and complexity. I have had so many therapy sessions where I say something like, "Am I autistic, or did the church just program black and white thinking into me?" Most recently my therapist is also teaching me how to know what I want and how to even think for myself. The church has a very clear thought pattern for pretty much every single situation. It's so hard for me to tell when I'm doing something because I want to or if I'm doing something because I think it would be good for other people or it's the "right" thing to think/do. This kind of issue makes learning and teaching consent in the church so so difficult. As a girl growing up in the church just like all of these stories, I was taught that I should always go out with the weird guy, the guy and gives off creeper vibes, if for no other reason than that Jesus never leaves people alone. I was so focused on doing the "right" thing that I never in my whole life learned how to know what I was actually okay with. So I was just "okay with" anything anyone wanted to do. Anyone in the church gets served so many mixed messages and we are taught to gaslight ourselves our whole lives. So I'm honestly not surprised that the kink community was my first community that I really bonded with after leaving. That's where I learned what it means to set, maintain, and respect consent and boundaries - where I really learned that it's okay to want things for myself and to not be okay with some things. It was a real trip learning what it is like to actually be respected and not manipulated in any kind of relationship.

[@m.g.4446]

I'm single and always have been but I had the best V-day I've ever had last night. Several of my friends had a Pal-entine's Day party for single women and enbies (excluding men to avoid the male gaze). We all dressed in lingerie or fetish wear, ate food, and played drinking games into the wee hours of the morning.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Yay!!!!

[@BrianaONeal]

After returning from my mission in 2016, multiple missionaries I had served with reached out to me saying that “the lord had told them I was supposed to be their wife..” I was pretty naive at that time as a Mormon but not that naive lol.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Damn, you must have been really spiritual! ;)

[@brianwaller7383]

I reached out to the sister missionary I worked with because I thought she was attractive and she sent me multiple signs of interest. But I never said that lol. My message to her was just a casual congratulations on completing her mission and noticed we had chemistry during my time as a investigator. Unfortunately she ghosted me. I promptly unfriend her from Facebook. I don’t simp for anyone. I’ll pursue and won’t chase. Not sure what her intentions were but I moved on don’t care anymore. Let her played those mind games with another chump not me. I’ll let my intentions known and I’ll keep it moving regardless if they respond or not.

[@Nassifeh]

@@brianwaller7383 I know this is late, but dude, a girl acting vaguely interested in you at some point is not "playing mind games" if she isn't feeling it later, not to mention that your memory of those "multiple signs of interest" might not be the same as hers. People do change their minds--especially if you don't express reciprocated interest in them at the time that they first flirt with you. This is normal and not some kind of evil manipulative behavior.

[@wardfamily5224]

Sometimes I forget about how traumatic and weird my dating experiences were. Even getting married at only 21, the stories and crazy are endless. About the stalking story, I had one of those similar situations! I was only 19, taking a break from my first year at byui and living down in southern utah. An older guy (close to 30) came into my work and somehow asked me on a date to the ward there that I had never gone to. We went to church and then he proceeded to take me to every friend's apartment and even his mission leaders home. I was with him literally the entire day cause he wouldn't let me leave. I told my coworker about it and she told me to look him up. Turns out he had a record for domestic violence against his ex-wife. Immediately ghosted him. He called me every single morning and night for weeks trying to talk to me. My coworker said he came into the store multiple time as well. I felt lucky he didn't know where I lived.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

!!!!!

[@saegemehlfee]

'Skills - Able to open really tough pickle jars" Adding that to my work resume right away 😅

[@jamiepotts6102]

You guys should talk about the gender disparity in YSA (at least outside of Utah). There was such a huge pressure and intense competition for the guys in YSA here in Canadian Utah (Alberta). There was, I kid you not, a 3 to 1 ratio of women to men in my YSA ward. That sense of high competition and therefore low selection is an even further pressure for young single women to settle down and/or marry the first person who likes them. That, plus the usual shirt courtship, no premarital sex, and early marriage age

[@ashleymuchmore880]

In 2017 I was still living on BYU campus while I was on my way out of the church and taking a semester off. I was trying to figure out if I was going to continue to attend despite my faith crisis (I did not), and I was accepting dates from both Mormon and non-Mormon guys. I went out with a guy a couple of times and it went well, but then things quickly turned sexual. I remember this man wanting an hj in a Denny's parking lot, and when I was done he asked if I had enjoyed myself and went on to explain that he was 'a really good guy because most men don't think to ask if the woman enjoyed it too.' It developed into a pattern of us doing something sexual, him crying over text about how unworthy he was, which was always followed by him blaming me for being too tempting, after which he would stop talking to me for several days, then he would send dick pics. I didn't tolerate this for very long, and when I told him it was over he got really mad at me for "ruining him," then begged me to have sex with him. Two months after that day, he was married in the temple.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

!!!!!!

[@brianwaller7383]

Must be the dennys off of university and freedom?

[@ktangard]

Incredibly frustrating week but this and Stephanie #3 have cheered me up 😊

[@trentlytle7289]

Being taught that knowing you're in love is some esoteric mystery that has to be revealed to you like the golden plates... It's been hard to unlearn the difference between love and limerence

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@spaceprole]

Maybe this will give me insight into my unhealthy internal view of NEEDING to be in a relationship, almost certainly instilled in me by the church.

[@amyjohnston2929]

When I was dating someone he broke it off with “god says you’re meant to be with someone else.” And the same thing happened to my sister!

[@jonjahr3403]

I know you guy who married his 5th cousin after they'd met at BYU. They were from different towns, had different last names, their generation of their families had never socialized with each other and then at the wedding reception his Grandma recognized a relative of the girl. On an unrelated note (Pun intended) You guy's should do an episode on young couples in the church being pressured to have children regardless of whether or not they were ready or wanted to. Cuz trust me a lot of us men don't want them right away either.

[@llamamama2910]

How about the shame and confusion you feel when you never can convince your Mormon husband to have kids but he still says he wants them and loves you?

[@jonjahr3403]

@@llamamama2910 That sounds like it would make for a good episode. Also, it sounds as though you were to feel ashamed and confused.

[@mintyfreshest]

on valentines day I got some painting done in my apartment! I have painted three of the walls in my living room sage green and yesterday I made a lot of progress painting my final wall an accent color, it's a more medium tone teal-y green. It is very calming.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Yay!!!

[@jacobopstad5483]

I can totally relate to the part about waiting for the words to come during my first blessing. It was a huge crack in my shelf when all I heard was silence.

[@raylawler13]

I'm beginning to think I didn't get married as a Mormon at BYU-I because I didn't neg and wouldn't have dreamed of getting married after 3 months of knowing someone.

[@leahmeyer4703]

I'm in a wheelchair and when I 1st met my MIL, she asked if I could have kids, and said that it's so great that my future husband could "look past my looks" aka disability and see my "tiny spirit". No pressure, no abliesm at all /s 😂 13 years later and we're out with our kiddo and happier than ever.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

!!!!! Damn 🙃 Yay for being happier than ever!!! 💖💖

[@glasscup8239]

Been listening to ur videos while faded and it is actually so healing

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Awww :)

[@spacecat7864]

49:41 until this moment I thought I was the only one who found Zelph on a mission to understand the trauma I collected by dating someone who grew up in a high demand religion and now I’m wondering if there is anyone else here. To the guy who sent in that story: I feel ya dude. That’s quite an experience…

[@botticellibarbie]

Same here!! I dated a JW and it f*cked me up for life.

[@spacecat7864]

@@botticellibarbie SAME! somehow two of my long term relationships were with ex JWs. It’s interesting hearing the stuff from people still in the religion who says shit like “you can leave but can’t leave it alone”. Because I think it’s MUCH healthier to go through a deconstruction process than just sort of quietly leave and never address your trauma or you could end up like my ex partners who… let’s just say sure had some stuff to work through!

[@Aelffwynn]

My first boyfriend grew up in Mormonism! He was inactive, despite being a teen and still living at home. He didn't talk about it much, but it was hard for him. Some of his siblings seemed to believe I'd join the church and bring him back in. He had a LOT of issues. At the time I was very hurt by some of the things he did, but as an adult, I see he was a sad kid who couldn't make sense of the world. (He also never did anything seriously aggressive, that I know of. He never intentionally hurt others, he just hurt himself and we were collateral damage.) To this day, I am fascinated and saddened by Mormonism. My early childhood had some fucked up religiosity in it. It keeps hurting and haunting my family. I think that's why I was drawn toward an ex-mormon in the first place.

[@spacecat7864]

@@Aelffwynn I had a similar experience with the family being super nice to me trying to bring me in and re-convert him. It was such a weird experience not knowing what was going on at the time!

[@MatPentz]

Sam, Love how you turned on the purple lighting on Tanners side during the dichotomies of good and evil exchange, highlighting the two different aesthetics.

[@pleh7019]

I don't celebrate Valentine's Day, so after delivering a card to my Catholic bestie, it was a much needed chill evening at my house. Enjoying discounted chocolates today, and will enjoy a holiday with some similar themes later in the year!

[@elizalange]

Yes!! My ex boyfriend in high school used to say that since we were sexually involved, we had to get married to each other. I ended up breaking up with him while we were both on missions, and dodged that bullet, thankfully. It's wild how having a sexual history makes looking for a partner within mormonism so uncomfortable and difficult. My partner didn't care about it nearly as much as I thought he would, which says something about the difference in messaging amongst genders within the church.

[@LisavonAustralis]

I'm so grateful I found you guys!! Unless you've lived it, you can't truly get what it's like. I'm like you two in that I strived to be that Molly Mormon, started questioning as I got older and thought more for myself, then gtfo over 20 years ago. Before I escaped, so late 90s, I went on a couple dates with different guys. I went on ONE date with this recently-sent-home-from-his-mission guy, just to the movies. Not far into it, there was a scene involving some adult playtime fun. So of course nudie bodies, including a couple pairs of norks, grace the screen for a few minutes. Won't somebody think of the children??! 😱 Anyway, he kept moving around in his seat and leaning over to SAY comments in my ear. Not whisper!I 😳 I can't even recall what he said, doesn't matter... all I remember is feeling mortified that everyone around would have noticed his antics 😳🙈 He then elbowed me multiple times to make more inane comments throughout the rest of the movie... Thank faaark we made our own way there! He went in for a goodnight kiss but I dodged it and got tf outta there... 🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♀️ He did ask me out again but I said yeah nah thanks 😨😄 And what you keep saying about the lack of boundaries for consent for women and girls is so spot on. I'm having epiphanies every single day lately! 🤯🤯😲😡 I feel robbed of my childhood and especially teenage years. What a waste and how many potential sources of joy and happiness did I turn away from?? Thanks for all your efforts 😘

[@brookestoddard1838]

You guys should do a video about all the polygamous offshoots. Most of my extended family is in the Kingston group

[@Henri_Hilarious]

48:00 I absolutely love that 😂😂😂😂😂

[@celinepope]

Not the "my wife said no at first" thing. This family in my neighborhood that everyone hates bc they're high and mighty Mormon (their son just left the church and they're beside themselves) had posted on Facebook about the wife having said no but he wore her down bc "it's not everyday you meet an angel."

[@chispitablanca]

Oooooof, I had very limited dating experience with fellow Mormons because I was raised in Ohio, so the pickings were slim and I left the church at 17 anyway. However, my mom was single because she divorced my never Mo father in 1986. At some point in the late 90’s she met a Mormon man from another state and they started dating. We met all of his (adult) kids and visited his house, then they got engaged while on a temple trip together. At some point my mom broke off the engagement because “she prayed about it” and “Heavenly Father told (her) it wasn’t meant to be.” After this I have memories of hearing the phone ring repeatedly late at night and seeing him driving past our house, even though he lived 6-7 hours away from us. Also he was ten years older than my mom and smelled like mothballs, but I’m sure that had nothing to do with it.

[@hopeahooper]

Your ending is chief's kiss and made me laugh

[@hanako4475]

The title page shot of her trying to smoochy and him "No! I shan't!" is my absolute favorite!!! ❤❤❤

[@justinmb07]

Really enjoyed this insight into how bizarrely purity culture and Mormonism can warp dating/relationships. I'm gay and grew up not really religious in the American South and felt a lot of pressure just from that.

[@anna-elizabeth]

Dating is such a thing anymore. I'm Bi, I get approached by guys that are like, half my age - I'm old enough to be Sam or Tanner's Mom, I think - that reek of marijuana and act like children, or I had a neighbor here, she was like, 22, an antivaxxer, and *married*, and she was surprised I didn't want her. If I meet someone nice and we seem compatible, I'll give it a chance, but I'd rather be alone than in a toxic relationship.

[@AlexaMilne]

It's that time of week again where I postpone watching a zelph video until I need to do laundry or dishes so I'm just going to pretend it's also Valentine's Day still.

[@jessilovely]

I’m aromantic so I kinda celebrate V day as April fools and I sent a prank to my fundamentalist Christian family, I sent them a baby scan and said I’m pregnant outside of marriage. I forgot to tell them it was a joke until today lol they were probably praying so hard for me 😬

[@gl1tchspectre_]

I spent my Valentine's Day constantly forgetting it was Valentine's Day 💀 I've been single my whole life and I don't see it changing any time soon so the only thing it means to me is more confusion (wtf even is a romantic attrac and how do I know if I have it - it's like googling symptoms honestly) and buying myself chocolates that go on sale afterwards because yes

[@leahtheanimationfan40]

My boyfriend and I were doing our own thing on Valentine's day but we're getting chocolates tomorrow since we figured they'll be on sale 🤣 And doing a date night on Saturday since that works better for our schedule

[@GoodBonesSam]

9:58 oh my GOD yes. I was that girl for so many guys when I was on my way out. Including an ex boyfriend: over a year into dating when I asked what had made him interested in me initially, he truly said “I wasn’t trying to date you, I could tell you were less active and figured you’d go further with me than the good Mormon girls.” Jackass.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

🙃🤮

[@craigstephenson7676]

I deconverted when I was 15 then my parents gave me no dating advice or any help whatsoever. Took me almost 3 years to go on my first date. That was last week. It was awesome, we went to the library. I never felt even close to this good when I was in the church.

[@touretteslife]

You guys are just pure joy. You made me smile countless times. Thank you and hope y’all have a lovely day.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Awww yay!!!

[@Dahlily]

Also, can I just say that I love you ve your guys' video! Been going through a tough time and a video from you guys feels like a hangout with friends - always good vibes. I also got tarot cards after you mentioned them Sam - so much fun (and so against my Christian upbringing) - love!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Aww yay!!!! 💚

[@amberino2221]

single for this valetines and dont ever see myself getting a romantic partner in my life. usually valentines day feels awkward and stilted and i feel bad for not wanting romance in my life. but this year was actually really fun! i exchanged gifts with a group of friends, bought flowers, treated myself to chocolate, and indulged in the fun aspects of valentines without the romance. turned out to be a really fun way to spend my day and i hope to keep it going next year!!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Love that!!!!

[@Aelffwynn]

I'm married and had a nice Valentine's day, but I really enjoyed my single Valentine's days. I had time to bake heart-shaped cookies from scratch and give them out to all my friends! I had time to paint my nails sparkly pink and put on fun makeup. Not that I can't do that now, but it's tougher because I have more responsibilities. I'm glad you had a good day! Enjoy your life.

[@brianwaller7383]

Same here. I’ve literally gave up on dating. It’s a complete shit show inside and outside the church. It’s simply not worth my time and money anymore. I just focus on hobbies and interest. No desire to date anymore. I want sex I’ll just go to seeking arrangements and pay for it.

[@MaggieBigelowMusic]

My friend and I had both grown up as serious TBMs but still had goals and ambitions. This was a problem for my friend whom didn’t really want children and wanted to be a doctor. We went on a double date and she was sharing how she planned to go to medical school and my date, very seriously interrupted and asked “but what if your husband wants you to stay home with the kids”? My friend was dumbfounded for a second and then explained she try not to marry and asshole who felt that way. He just sat there looking confused. On a different solo date, maybe close to 26 year old guy was 3 questions into our date. He stopped and said “wait, how old are you?”. I was probably 20 or 21 at the time and said so. He looked disappointed and said “I thought you were younger”. I was a little worried I was going to be murdered that night.

[@josephrawlins]

About two years into my marriage, my wife's sister confessed to me that she had known who I was before I met my wife because she had stalked me with a friend when I was recently home from my mission. The friend was a student in my Sunday School Class that I only saw as a friend. I asked what this stalking entailed and she said that they would come to the motel where I worked and park in the parking lot in a space where they could watch me at the Front Desk and just watch me and talk about how cool I was, how spiritual I was, what a good teacher I was, what a good missionary I must have been, what a good father I would be...

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

!!!!!

[@josephrawlins]

@@ZelphOntheShelf Yeah. Red flags all around.

[@Samantha-zu3qe]

Loving the “boys and women” thrown in there as a twist on the usual “men and girls”

[@aislinnberry8487]

Dating at BYUI was a nightmare. Part of you is like “this feels weirdly stressful” and then you leave the church and you’re like “not only was that super stressful, it was also really fucked up.” This Valentine’s Day I felt chill knowing I’m at a good place in my life and that’s enough (:

[@undefined6251]

I can definitely relate to Tanner's comment about church schools being a strange bubble. At the school I went to whenever a girl got asked out by a guy she didn't like she would tell them that she was dating Jesus. Usually the next week she was on a date with a guy she did like. Lol. The Mormon revelation thing reminded me of this.

[@stheno4783]

I've dated a lot and 99% of my relationships ended after three months. Recently I googled it and apparently that's pretty normal. You either decide to give it a real chance or breakup by that time. So pair that with the intense obsession with getting married right away it makes sense. I mean it's messed up but understandable within the context of mormonism

[@timnewman1172]

After hearing these stories, I've never been so grateful to be Ace in my life!

[@user-jl2kk8ps9i]

Great video - I'm an ex-jw, but ex-mormon stuff is so familiar. So many of those stories are what jws go through too. BTW, What's the glowing orb in the? That looks awesome!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

So glad to have you here! Orb is this if you’re interested :) amzn.to/3jXhLmO

[@user-jl2kk8ps9i]

@@ZelphOntheShelf no worries, thanks for the link :)

[@monus782]

I used to follow a high demand version of Catholicism and I didn’t learn things like consent until college (while going through endless repression and shame) and I’m grateful I didn’t date during that time, even then it was pretty tame compared to what you all went through and as a nevermo episodes like this are a reminder that my upbringing could’ve been worse. 22:18 I was born into Catholicism (like most Mexicans) and my parents are practicing but I went fundamentalist about it during college and after moving to the States in part because I was insecure about my sense of identity and the Latin Mass movement I was attracted to seemed more consistent in their doctrines and the art and pomp was attractive to me (that’s by design and that’s how they get ya), becoming devout was the biggest mistake of my life and I feel I wasted my formative years being loyal to that institution but at least I made it out in the first place 35:11 nuanced thinking also sometimes scared me during my fundie phase because it only added up to my cognitive dissonance I was going through and some people I knew were worse when it comes to that, because of my absolutist mentality I supported some evil shit like defending the Crusades and advocating to bring back the Inquisition to deal with the Protestant fundies I had so much in common once and for all (alongside getting rid of democracy altogether, by that point for some reason I was hanging out with the religious alt-right). Again it’s a miracle I made it out at all. That being said thank you for sharing, really gave me an idea of what goes on in Mormon culture when it comes to this.

[@stheno4783]

💕 Happy Valentine's 💕

[@McKaylaRuesch]

Side note but I’m living for both hair looks today! 👀🔥

[@leahtheanimationfan40]

When I was 19, I went to an institute devotional (I believe Christofferson was the speaker) and afterwards, this tall guy (probably about 6'6" came and started talking to me. I wasn't interested at all. Fast-forward to when I was 21 and went to a YSA new year's eve party for the Ogden area and I saw him again, and of course he started talking to me. We discussed our ages and I found out he was 32! A year and a half later, I had finally left the church but decided to go to one final institute party. Thankfully, he didn't notice me, but I saw him there, walking around in a stalker-ish manner which gave me the creeps since he was probably already 33 or 34 by that point 😬 I have another story regarding a different guy that I met at the New Years pary I mentioned but this comment is already long enough

[@diamonddavemctv]

Nothing like a Zelph on the Shelf episode while grinding on SWTOR. Love the video!

[@oliviablomquist9408]

This helped me expand my compassion! I grew up in a Mormon household, but fought against it constantly. (several dynamics fed into my distaste at a very young age, so I was very lucky) I always thought my sister was uniquely strange in how fast she talked about marrying someone she dated. The record was 2 weeks before talking about marrying and moving in with him. Now I see that she is not unique at all, but a victim of the culture. Thanks for doing this video

[@PostMormonParenting]

This was so fun to listen to! And it was so cathartic. The things I did and allowed others to do to me when I was at BYU… ugh.

[@heyitsme7334]

While I was watching this, an ad came on for a diet meal plan, and I thought “this is the exact opposite of an ad they would want” 😂 then immediately after, an ad about preserving nature came on, and that one was much more on brand lol

[@dawn8293]

36:30 my mom pressured my dad into having more kids, because 1. That's what the prophet said, and 2. She had a dream that she had forgotten her baby. One time when my dad said he didn't want more kids, and she became pregnant, she was very distressed about upsetting him so she prayed for a solution, and then she miscarried, and she worried that she had prayed get baby away. When dad found out, he said they could have another kid. I think the number of kids my parents had contributed to my father's poor mental health my whole life. He is so much happier as an empty nester. My mother isn't.

[@merbst]

13:00 I heard the same message as Tanner as a Catholic High School boy in the bottom half of the 1990s. Many more of these stories apply to the Catholics. Happy advance Birthday Tanner... I would attend if it were in California. or maybe Vegas.

[@DancingQueenie]

My BYU fiancé was on the “apostle track” so of course we couldn’t touch each other until we were kneeling at the altar. I was on the “apostasy track” so it didn’t work out.

[@pspence2]

I saw my past self in a couple of these. YIKESSSSS. Gonna be able to skip corework at the gym today because I got such a great ab workout from cringing so hard. some of these boys are reading lots of jack wayland and it shows.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

A win is a win!!!!

[@samanthahall9522]

Hi Tanner and Sam! About mid video you guys listed a bunch of inner healing book. Do you both have a list of self help books you would recommend? Love what you are doing, it helps me understand I'm not alone in my feelings.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

I think we mentioned Attached and Inner Bonding! Both life-changing :)

[@sarahwright2384]

My husband and I don't really celebrate Valentines Day, but we did go to the museum together on the 13th. So maybe we did celebrate the holiday?

[@lucybarnes8969]

Love watching you guys when I'm drunk af, thanks for a good night lol

[@emilyswett7827]

Walked around the nearby state park and went to their mini aquarium

[@amf235dance]

Speaking of pestering a woman until she gives in, I’m ex-vangelical, but my sister is still very much a part of the church. She even helped start a church with a married couple that she knows and she is a youth pastor there. One time the couple told the story of how they started dating. He asked her out and she said no because her schedule was too busy. Rather than accepting the no, he kept pestering her until she agreed to date him. They tell the story as if it is some romantic beginning of a love story. I feel so sad for the woman. They have 4 children together now and she just seems really tired.

[@brianwaller7383]

A real man that has any self respect and dignity will never chase a girl if she doesn’t want to be caught. If she’s into you she’ll make it real easy for the guy not a headache. Only simps chase. Chase excellence not women

[@DancingQueenie]

There’s a thin line between really tired and depressed.

[@charmlikethequark]

oh my god I've never been so glad to have figured out i wasn't straight by the time i was 14 and subsequently managed to avoid all of this BS 💀

[@lydiadesiree2]

Okay but that guys take on A Quiet Place (36:02) is wild😭 Jimothy would not approve ☹️

[@blueridding]

Blind dates are so fun! As long as it’s a group thing (for safety) I loved them all. Even if it wasn’t a match, it was usually fun, and if it was super weird then I got a good story out of it.

[@carrot-cat1746]

Haven't even gotten into the meat of the video yet, but my first date in college was with a boy I sat next to in one of my religion classes. We were going to do tennis as a double date, but when that fell through, we went...to a temple rededication broadcast...and my roommate accidentally third wheeled. He probably talked more with her than with me, because neither of us knew what to talk about with each other. At least I got a nifty, cheap handkerchief out of it!

[@sarat6488]

I think their dat6ing resume should be written by people they have previously dated

[@azlizzie]

While it sounds nice in theory, it doesn’t allow people to learn from their mistakes and grow. I was chaotic as a young 20 something just out of the closet. I don’t recognize that girl now.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Fun fact: to get verified on mutual one only needs a picture with a book of mormon. That said, I felt guilty for a couple of reasons and left it after days.

[@brianwaller7383]

Guess I was too ugly for mutual because they never accepted my picture despite three times

[@The_Other_Ghost]

@@brianwaller7383 More attractive than I am. You need more self confidence, Sam and Tanner can probably give advice on that.

[@brianwaller7383]

@@The_Other_Ghost nah my self confidence is just fine in fact on borderline arrogant. I’m realistic a lifetime 200% rejection rate with women tells me I’m not good enough. By my self confidence has never waived. I can leg press 1200 pounds and can shoot 45% from three pointers in basketball. I would not shy away from challenging steph curry that’s how confident I am in myself. I hit game winners all the time despite missing everything during the game.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

@@brianwaller7383 Then you're unofficially my hero.

[@brianwaller7383]

@@The_Other_Ghost funny your screen name ghost and that’s what happens to me every time I finally land a date get ghosted afterwards lol

[@jamybailey]

"The temple as a place of refuge" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣☠️🙉🙈🙊 such an underrated line

[@laceyhurd2657]

I love you guys :) this breakup sucks, surviving on the ten-percent happier podcast

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

THE BEST PODCAST!!!!! 💜💜💜💜

[@jy285]

Great stuff, guys! Thanks for the video.

[@aubreetanner9543]

One of the only dates I've ever been on was to Mormon prom with this boy who was in a large, home-schooled family. His family was known for having very polite and respectful kids who were always going around mowing people's lawns and other types of service. I actually think it was kind of nice that he asked me because I was shy and awkward and most people would never even bother to talk to me, let alone ask me out. It wasn't a bad date, but when he was telling me about his job at Chick-Fil-A, he said "It's nice to work for a company that shares kind of the same values, like they're not open on Sunday and they don't support gay people..." I was fascinated by how he worded it. It was like felt completely safe to be his homopbobic self around me because he thought I was Mormon. He was an eager participant in class discussions about gay people too. If I had to guess, I'd say he's probably on the whole "Queer people are predators" crusade now.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

😬😬😬

[@LauraOttawa]

My act of self love on valentines day was doing Yoga for 30 minutes 🧘‍♀️

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

ME TOO!!!

[@jennifernelson590]

Learning more and more how much teenage girls and women are manipulated by forced ignorance and compliance. It’s not a shocker so many stay with abusive men and end up in abusive relationships. It’s conditioned. So much to say here. Twice divorced myself from two Mormon men married in the temple. My first husband cheated and abandoned me and my two kids. Second husband of 10 years found out he was drugging me and my daughter for obvious reasons ended up in prison and left a single mom again. Left religion and now finishing my degree. I plan on getting my masters and being a therapist and specializing in cult trauma from the LDS church. My fiancé is also doing the same.

[@carissaking9829]

Great video and also you guys look so lovely. I love your outfits and Sam's little barrettes 😊

[@elizalange]

For Valentines, we went out for dinner and then built Lego flowers together! It was the best day!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Now I want to build Lego flowers!!!

[@weezieyo]

The new wildflowers set is really beautiful. I think it’s the best one of the flower sets so far.

[@lar-in-a-crisis]

Oh man, a few of those caused VISCERAL second hand embarrassment 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I still live in Utah. It's wild.

[@aubreetanner9543]

I used to go hide in the bathroom every time a slow song came on during stake dances, because I was so afraid of boys asking me to dance and was told I should never say no.

[@MH-wz1rb]

Ex catholic, "I'm not sure that I am called to marriage" is my favorite variation on this. Even at the time, I had to laugh because somehow it's better to imply that I put you off dating anyone anymore over just not feeling it? Miss, I'm not that fragile. This uncertainty lasted for about 2 months, evidently. 😂

[@be.kind.to.animals]

Love your content and friendship 💛🙂

[@luddlowvertakaclydecowley5905]

Since you brought it up, I did indeed enjoy a lovely edible by myself last night. 👍Yeah I remember especially around the end of my mission, all the pressures to date and marry ASAP after getting home...that was when I was deconstructing my way out of the church anyway, so I sometimes wonder if my disdain toward the church was part of what fed into my unwillingness to get into dating as a young adult. But I'm sure it's mostly the ol' social anxiety. 😕

[@keeKeeConnolly]

3:00 Why she taking a picture of her soda can?

[@maiathebee410]

This is so eye opening. I had a mormon friend when I taught English in South Korea. We were two American young women living in a neighborhood where immigrants from Eastern Europe (who were ethnically Korean but whose families had moved during the cold war) lived. The vibe of the neighborhood was pretty European, in that groups of men would stand around outside the the convenience stores smoking and speaking Russian, periodically catcalling those who walked by (this wasn't the norm in most neighborhoods in the city I lived in). One day my friend asked to see me because she was shaken up after a weird situation. I found out a man in one of those groups had called out to her, and she ended up following him to his room, accepting a drink, and sitting on his bed. He implied that she should change clothes in his room, and she left. I was aghast she'd gotten into that situation, and told her never to go to a strange man's apartment again, and if she had to, she needed to let someone else know exactly where and what she was doing. I was so confused by the fact that she though what she did was normal and she didn't understand why I was so upset and worried about her, and she just kept insisting she was ok.

[@naomiswisher6816]

my parents dated for a whole entire 4 days before getting engaged. I had no idea that wasn't normal until I started questioning the church.🙃

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Incredible

[@anna-katehowell9852]

We need a Where Are They Now episode