The Brutal Reality of Flying the B-17

[@TJ3]

Join Letters From War Today! Mailed Version: shorturl.at/cgiuD or the Digital Email Version: shorturl.at/fkms5

[@BossSuperior201]

Hi

[@lilylin5226]

Give me your discord Link please

[@lilylin5226]

I’m trying to join your discord but it’s invalid or expired

[@rogerbust]

No

[@BossSuperior201]

@@rogerbust not oldest inhabited, oldest overall, the “city” was in ruins as it had been for 500 years

[@carlparlatore294]

TJ - another one of your gripping presentations - as a former AF Fighter pilot who was shot down I can only tell you that it gave me goose bumps to "relive" another aircrews terrifying experience to be shot out of the air - My good friend - keep up the good work - we can't forget what those who scarified so much for us did so we could live in freedom - remember what the late  George Santayana once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” -

[@TJ3]

Thanks Carl!!

[@cleverusername9369]

With respect, I believe you'll find that the word you meant to use is spelled "gripping". Griping means to complain

[@J23-o7u]

Ur the best sir glad u made it back 👍😎

[@Hexadeci]

Years ago I geeked out after finding the database of after action reports from the B-17 missions. You can basically read each mission from every plane’s perspective in that mission. It’s absolutely incredible what they went through. Worth checking out for any Air Force history lover.

[@Soyouvelosttheloveofyourlife.]

Don't gripe at TJ please his presentations are truly gripping but all these people griping about their random gripes aimed at this truly gripping tale of the bloody 100 on one of the most gripping tales of the war just days before he was shot down. I bet these brave men didn't gripe when going on these gripping missions.

[@lil2nerdy645]

Hearing the letters reminds me of the letter reading scene from Memphis Belle as it's nearly impossible to not become emotional from those moments. The worried voices of the airmen's families are simply somber and humbling.

[@LancelotChan]

This is so heart wrenching to see the action while the letter was being read by the sender..... almost can't bear to watch.

[@TJ3]

Yes absolutely. Imagine the pain if you are the actual writer of the letter.

[@brooksroth345]

I like letters from war as it puts a personal aspect to war that in most cases ignored. These voices need to be heard. The bravery both in combat and at home puts meaning to the greatest generation. I have a diary from family union solider during the civil war .

[@TJ3]

Very touching. Thank you!

[@ragtopz6]

RIP to my uncle Capt. Bill Huckin from Muskogee, Oklahoma. He flew 53 missions as a B-17 pilot, most flying out of Fogia, Italy for the 15th air force. When he showed me his scrap book of pictures and mission stories, I regret that I was too young to appreciate what all they represented. This generation was indeed our greatest.

[@frizzlefry5904]

Great presentation, I live near Thorpe Abbot, which has a wonderful small museum to remember the bloody 100th, also I work at Duxford and we have presented the work of the 888th and the clearance of mail back to the U.S . thank you.

[@emperorofchicken]

How do we ever repay these men? The sacrifice of an entire generation. It’s humbling.

[@guitarshredddddder91]

We teach our future generations that war is terrible & racism is the root of it. Because we already know the latter half of what can/WILL happen. These men already did that.

[@NFsHarveyp1]

@@guitarshredddddder91 Racism? lol Politicians is the reason for wars. Money and power are the roots if war. Definitely not racism

[@philalcoceli6328]

@@guitarshredddddder91 Racism is just a surface sign of the deepest cause: lust for tyranny and addiction to division and hatred, which we are once again being indoctrinated today by American Communists "anti-racist" fanatics. The American warriors of WWII show that evil, even when disguised as "compassionate saviors" of society, must be fought against at any price.

[@janrobertbos]

...defend democracy...do NOT allow the orange one to destroy it!!!

[@philalcoceli6328]

@@janrobertbos By demonizing the "orange one" and hiding your very own personal evil behind your convenient demonizing so you appear "immaculate", you empower The Darkest Evil One Ever. For Hitler, the "orange one" was the Jews and now we have the same thing here again, where any truth and truth-tellers are called "orange."

[@EntreeTheGiant]

A great uncle Mike! I love and appreciate you!! Thank you for being here!

[@benhudman7911]

The courage was staggering. We owe these men so much and yet few care.

[@cammobunker]

To clarify: The 100th BG lost 9...of 21 total AC launched, something like 40% losses. Overall, the USAAF sent 376 and lost 60 bombers, and an unknown but significant number of AC were heavily damaged, many to the point of no longer being airworthy but managed to return to England. Those 60 bombers accounted for 557 KIA/POW losses. Aboard the returning 316 aircraft, were a further 7 KIA and 21 WIA That makes a total of at least 564 airmen no longer available either dead or captured. It is unknown how many of the WIA were still able to serve. A minimum of Sixty B-17s (plus 3 P-47 and 2 Spitfire escorts along with an unknown but significant number of B17s too badly damaged to be repairable) translates to three complete bomb groups lost, a HUGE loss form the Allies, especially considering that neither strike was particularly effective, they only managed to down a couple dozen fighters and kill around 200 people on the ground.

[@Diadema033]

wonder if that really made a difference in WWII efforts to beat LW. Too big losses, too many lives. I only can imagine what if, they sent the early models of B-17s instead the B-17Fs. Perhaps they had lost hundreds of them? BTW, the B-17s depicted here are actually B-17E as you can see them by the nose glass.

[@johnschofield9496]

I've been a subscriber for a while now, and I love your content, but you've really outdone yourself with this one ! Thank you for once again making war personal to all, not just those who lived it.

[@KyleCowden]

You know, one of the stand out aspects of the National Museum of Naval Aviation is their bringing home the humanity behind the aviators/war. You can even tour a "Main Street" USA and catch a glimpse of how life was lived in the 40s. Many of the displays throughout have letters from home and vice versa on display. It at once offers an insight into the lives of those fighting and moves one to tears. Some are humorous while others pine for the company of the recipient. This is a fantastic project and elevates one's knowledge of the facts to one of _KNOWING_ the story and those that lived it.

[@TJ3]

Thanks Kyle!

[@SNP-1999]

A brilliant production, as always by TJ. Meticulously researched with incredibly detailed aircraft and air battles, TJ's channel is definitely one of the prime channels on KZbin for every aviation history buff such as I am. I really appreciate the hard work put into making these outstanding videos that have no peer on the internet.

[@michaelmeier5893]

These stories you share are absolutely amazing. I love hearing them. The sacrifice they made I have no words to explain it. Bravery at its finest.

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

Hey TJ, this may be your most enthralling episode yet…. I haven’t seen any episodes of the series on TV yet just the clips but these guys got absolutely hammered. The letters are such a special touch, you have really bought this historic time right to the present inc how loved ones felt at home.

[@colonial6452]

We had lunch with the pilot of my dad's company's Beech 18 in the mid-1960's. He was a combat veteran B-17 pilot who completed a full tour of duty in the 8th Air Force. 12 O'Clock High was on TV and looked very grim. I asked him how bad it was and was surprised to hear that he had completed his tour with only a hole shot in the radio once. My dad was also a USAAF vet who spent two or three years training for a specific mission that, due to dropping the A Bomb, was cancelled. He never left the US. Please remember, though, that the USAAF lost over 15,000 men in domestic flying operations from 1942-45.

[@greghardy9476]

I really like the way you present these stories. A more human approach. Sometimes uplifting, sometimes sad, always personal.

[@daviswall3319]

Very interesting. My mom has copies of letters sent home from my three times great grandfather during the Civil War. He was in the Battle of Corinth, Battle of Jackson and eventually ended up at Port Hudson where he surrendered just a day or two after Vicksburg fell.

[@UpSky2]

This is a great concept for presenting the experience of air battle in history on KZbin. I haven't seen this sort of thing done before on KZbin. It makes history or war in detail much more vivid.

[@johnharris6655]

A friend of mine was a history teacher and a Sergeant in the Air Force reserves. He told me about a paper he read where instead of B-17's what would have happened in the Air Force used Mosquitos. 3 Mosquitos could carry almost the same bomb load as 2 B-17s but with only 6 crewmen instead of 20. The Mosquitos could outrun most German fighters and being made of wood were easier to repair. Instead of Strategic bombing of fixed structures like factories, you would do tactical bombing of rail yards, barracks, air fields, fuel depots and power stations.

[@jp-ty1vd]

I agree. It doesn't matter how many aircraft are produced if you can't get them to market job done.

[@Jazzman874]

Good idea, but we in the UK couldn't make enough of them for our own needs. The Mosquito only had a crew of 2, and was used as a low level tactical bomber.

[@johnharris6655]

@@Jazzman874 On thing the US Could do in WW2 that no other country could, ramp up production in a hurry and make a lot of stuff. Just look at b-24 production at Willow run.

[@Jazzman874]

@@johnharris6655 There is no doubt that US production during WW2 was best in class. The only UK designs that was produced in the US were centimetric radar, used to track U-boats and aircraft, and the Merlin 61 engine used to power the P51 fighter. The US produced lots of everything. Guns, tanks, planes ships. The Red army used US trucks to transport it's troops and supplies, and we in the UK would have been lost without US supplies especially food and oil. If the US hadn't done this we might have lost WW2, with unthinkable consequences

[@contumelious-8440]

1 - The US facilities to build the US planes were already in production. To change to an unfamiliar wood plane would have caused massive disruptions in production. This alone is like, full stop the end of any discussion. At this point in the war, any disruption in aid to Britain is going to be catastrophic. 2 - The Mosquito sounds amazing compared a bomber designed with a completely different role in mind. The B-17 was a high altitude bomber using range, altitude and gun turrets as defense while the Mosquito was a lower level bomber meant to use speed as it's only defense and attack lightly defend targets. 3 - The airframe of the Mosquito could not have stood up to heavy AA fire, even with it's speed. Flak is a thing and this aircraft could not have hit heavily defended targets. 4 - The Mosquito had about 65% of the range of a B-17 5 - At some point, you have to attack the heavily defended targets. These Mosquitos can't because they do not have the durability to get low enough to drop their ordinance from their designed lower altitudes whereas B17s and other high altitude bombers were able to drop from upwards of 25,000 feet, safer from flak. You can't win the war by attrition. You have to win the war. Wonderful plane, the Mosquito. There was just no way the US could retool a factory to make that bomber when they already had a factory producing bombers performing the same role as that one. The only way I see anything like this happening is if Britain could have convinced the US to build a factory specifically for this bomber, sending designers, specialists and pilots to get everything started. With everything else the US and Britain was doing do you really think this bomber was special enough that it deserved that amount of effort and diversion of resources? Compare that Mosquito to the B-25 or 26 which were similar in their roles and the Americans were already producing. Ask if the better performance of the Mosquito is worth supply disruption, or the effort needed to create facilities to mass produce them.

[@davidproudfoot6390]

Absolutely great videos don't ever stop thank you very much for educating us on some of these battles these stories need to be told and you do an excellent job of it thank you and God bless you sir❤❤❤

[@ianbray5946]

A wonderful presentation TJ. Thanks

[@nixops]

I love the graphics and animation in this, just to see a facsimile of those bombers is breathtaking. It must have been one heck of a terrify experience in real life. Thanks for the content, and salutes to all those who served and those who never returned.

[@codie2035]

100th BG series will be awesome following the original crews and their fate during the war.

[@GrantvsMaximvs]

I've been a subscriber since (almost) the beginning, and I've enjoyed watching the channel grow and content mature. Onward & Upward

[@anti-Russia-sigma]

As the letters adds a personal perspective to history,I hope you do continue on the project.

[@TJ3]

Thanks!!

[@pvtjohntowle4081]

Fantastic production your video compliments and adds to Masters of the Air

[@RenerDeCastro]

Masters of the Air, anyone? Edit: Upon hearing the name Hummel, and having watched Episode 3 of the show, I know this probably isn't going to be good...

[@indyawichofficial1346]

Here ! Great series, although the 3rd part regarding infamous raid could perhaps expand a bit on this, but despite its limits I am all in !!!

[@jlawsl]

My mother still writes letters in this form. She would be considers a "boomer" by many but these days, I am trying to keep her letters that she writes in beautiful cursive and eloquently spoken. it is truly becoming a lost art. As an early millenial myself, I have almost forgotten cursive writing or letter writing itself. Perhaps I will send a letter. It is amazing what the difference between a written and typed letter can be. One you can hold onto, one is just another digital throw away. A written letter is a connection to a person, knowing that they personally wrote it on paper that they bought, went through the effort of putting it into an envelope, and sending it off. Each letter with a different feel and emotion as time passes. I guess this video has made me want to actually write my mother a letter. Thank you. I think I will do that instead of typing a message or ignoring a call. I guess I will have to start with normal letters and relear cursive. Its been years. I am sure that she will enjoy it though.

[@mechcavandy986]

My uncle was a B-17 pilot in WII. He flew over the South Coral Sea.

[@JUNKERS488]

Great Video TJ. I love your videos because I always know it's going to not only be Interesting but fact filled. I love how you tell us about the individual crew members and pilots. Thanks for all your hard work.

[@phillipendicott1714]

My mother-in-law grew up in Schweinfurt during the war. Not a good place in the air or on the ground.

[@manfrommeeteetse3880]

My friend and co-worker Drexel(Red)Cloos flew on this mission. He told me many stories about his time in the 351st Bomb Group. Red passed away a few hours before his 100th birthday.

[@potrzebieneuman4702]

One of the B17's that managed to land after the raid was massively damaged and running on fumes. When a vehicle pulled up to what was left of the B17 to collect the crew the pilot nonchalantly asked if anyone had a light for his cigarette as he didn't have enough gas to put in his lighter. A horrific mauling by German fighters.

[@johngaither9263]

My neighbor was a B-17 pilot instructor during the war. Repeated requests by him for combat were denied. Even after Normandy full schedules of trainees were being cycled thru training and more instructors were being added. He asked where are all these pilots going and why are so many needed? Not until after the war did he learn how many planes, pilots and crews were lost over Europe. The 8th Air Force alone suffered more casualties bombing the Germans than the entire Marine Corps lost in the Pacific fighting the Japanese.

[@MGB-learning]

Outstanding video and presentation.

[@pablopeter3564]

EXCELLENT....PERIOD. Thanks for keeping aviation history alive. Greetings from Mexico City.

[@kennedysingh3916]

Watched from Old Harbour Jamaica.

[@Dr_Larken]

8:43 having the letter read by the sister as you show the footage of what he’s experiencing, it’s so powerful! I love the way you guys did this! 8:37 now I’m worried about Green, I want to know what happened to him! he was missing an action in the Pacific. Did he make it out? I always felt the strong connection with World War II, especially the European theater! Loving history as much as I do and understanding how horrible the Pacific was. Something tells me Green, never made it back to his family¡ Edit: 11:01. I didn’t think you was going to go over the whole letter. Still, I know he’s one of hundreds, if not, thousands of men That went MIA. Sadly, a lot of them we’ll never know their story!

[@JohnMcDonald-ef5gz]

I knew a couple of men in my life who flew in B 17s. One was a co pilot, one a navigator and another was a ball turret gunner. They said they were shot up pretty bad but never shot down. They told me they owed the fact they survived was because they were flying in B 17s. B17s could take more punishment than is depicted here. Short of a direct flak hit or a close in or head on attack by a cannon armed ME 109 or a FW 190 a B 17 could absorb a lot of damage and engine failure and keep flying.

[@kenhyde1781]

I'm addicted to 12 O'Clock High reruns . . .

[@patrickcoughlin-qj9uk]

Your not the only one . Check u tube for 12 o clock high . My father served USN cold war era cve 88 a small air craft carrier .

[@Ben-zr4ho]

Wouldn't want to be on a B-17 in 1943. I mean 25 missions when some missions take 30-40% loss rates. The odds were very much against you.

[@FozzyZ28]

Another amazing story TJ 😁👍

[@southerncross3638]

Whenever I'm having a bad day, I think of what those men went through. My grandpa was a waist gunner in a B17 he used to say that if he knew, then what He knows now, He never would have gotten into those buckets of bolts.

[@stevegreenhorn934]

This and many details are in the book I`m currently reading .. Masters Of The Air. Highly recommend.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Thanks again for another fine war video my friend..... Old F-4 2 Shoe🇺🇸

[@music4dages]

It seems like KZbin is resorting to pressuring people to subscribe to KZbin without ads by peppering more and more of KZbin videos with more and more ads per upload. How about this KZbin, frontload EVERY upload with ALL the ads afterwhich the uploads are presented without interruption.

[@danravenna2974]

Very nice presentation! But some of the 109s had tropical air filters.

[@contumelious-8440]

chatgpt has entered the room

[@davidkimmel4216]

Thanks for the video

[@jagsdomain203]

I love the idea of the letters every month is it a physical letter or is it a email letter

[@HornetCinematics]

Awesome video!

[@TJ3]

Thanks Hornet!

[@roryobrien4401]

I notice the letter was posted from Southampton. I had no idea the USAAF was stationed there, can you provide more detail?

[@roryobrien4401]

Ok I saw it's Southampton L.I

[@darrylmuse9948]

Wasn’t this the mission they showed in Masters of the Air ?

[@TJ3]

Correct!

[@christiankirkwood3402]

Good, informative post, very praiseworthy by virtue of "paying it forward" That said, I do appreciate the gaming type CGI - and therein I focus on my one gripe. The depiction of the B17E as opposed to the progressively evolving B17F models flown by the 100th BG at this time. Not historically accurate and there's the juxtaposition - you show an incorrect, superseded version of the icon of the 100th... You've done this B17E thing in posts previously depicting the B17F. Get it right, you're a repeat offender and just as you are doing something fantastic by educating, you must also be aware of the lack of credibility many of us my age and otherwise are seeing. You make absolutely no mention of the graphics, in context. Q: Should you, for example, depict the X1A exceeding supersonic speed on October 14th, 1947 ?? Or, keep it real and historically accurate by showing the Orange X1, 6062 as per fact ?? The crew & aircraft you depict here was most definitely a B17F old son, complete with armament and other modifications circa Regensberg August 17th, 1943 - technically, the G variant was introduced in November 1943, yet that's purely academic. * The B17G was beginning to appear in small numbers at this time in the 8th AF as per field modifications and the initial factory versions based on the later F models. Nevertheless, this post is very well done. Kudos but keep it real man✌️ Regards from the grandson of a man who completed his 40 "Ops" or "sorties" aboard a Lancaster Mk1, 460Sgdn, RAAF, Binbrook, as bombardier/navigator (subject to aircrew availability) Further regards from Lottie, Desiree & Gina, here in paradise at Tuckombil via Alstonville and East Ballina 800km north of Sydney ex Maroubra. Maaate ✨️🤙

[@jamesTBurke]

Hey have you found any letter to or from a Marvin L Reed?

[@jtwilliams8895]

It’s funny that the B-17s cockpit windshield looked liked the windshield on a pickup truck. Couldn’t have had great visibility

[@PaulTheSkeptic]

So, I love B-17's. When I was a kid I got to explore a museum B-17. I got to sit inside the ball turret and everything. It was really cool. But I never understood the purpose of the large transparent nose. Also, I don't remember seeing guns in the nose. The other gunners could shoot forward of course but they went through so much designing a gun that could shoot down with the ball turret, seems like they'd want every direction covered. Did they have a nose gunner or did the other guys have to cover the forward direction?

[@COACHWARBLE]

Really? i always assumed it was people years later that use the term, "injured" instead of "wounded." I love the line in Band of Brothers that corrects that statement. Sounded like an actual after action report that men called each other injured instead of wounded. You would think the clerk would have corrected the error while transcribing.

[@skullsaintdead]

"Injured is like falling out of a tree" love it! What an incredible show BOB is. Glad the pilots get their own tv retrospective too in Masters of the Air, I admire all the work Tom Hanks & Spielberg put into these tv shows & films. They might not always be 100% accurate, but they sure do leave you with an immense appreciation for all the sacrifices these men & women made for our freedoms. God bless them.

[@raymondyee2008]

The real story behind “Masters Of The Air”. I’m sure there wasn’t one pilot who became a rock star (take a hint).

[@darrylmuse9948]

I thought that was the mission they showed on Masters of the Air

[@josefhorndl3469]

For me as a German your video is more interesting than the often boring Masters of the Air shows, which includes too much stereotypes (clichés) and relatively bad CGI - in my opinion of course. Have you ever heard of the "Poltava debacle" during Operation Frantic? On June 21, 1944, a USAAF task force of 114 B-17 and 70 P-51 - led by Col. Archie J. Old Jr. - took off from England and bombed an oil plant south of Berlin on their way to Poltava (Ukraine). One single Heinkel He 177 followed them to Poltava and after their report to the German staff a combined force of He 111 and Ju 88 attacked Poltava. They destroyed and damaged many of the US bombers and fighters on the ground without losing a single aircraft. It's an interesting story, because the tensions between the Sovjets and the US boys were immense (order from Stalin!). Maybe a story and a video for the future? Bye and good luck with your channel :)

[@TJ3]

If you can believe it, we actually interviewed a B-17 veteran who was on this very raid, and told us the story of him running for cover from the bombing that night. Video will come out in the coming months!

[@josefhorndl3469]

@@TJ3 Wow, great. I can't wait!

[@SharkHustler]

Why the Luftwaffe bomber-arm didn't conduct such [counter-attacking] raids more often (including those sporadic night raids against Britain [such as Operation Steinbock {or aptly 'English-named', the 'Baby Blitz'}, among other intruder missions]) is beyond me. Perhaps (from the limited [back-story] knowledge and understanding I've since gleaned from various sources) it had more to do with [Göring's, and others'] deteriorating/conflicting leadership - rather than the limited [Kampfgeschwader] resources in experienced air crews - than anything else.

[@sewage1510]

It's my first time visiting this channel but I'm very curious where this footage came from. Is this from some kind of flying simulator game?

[@TJ3]

From War Thunder! You can download it at the link in description for free :)

[@hariszark7396]

But what was the fate of the captured crew members later? It wasn't mentioned in video.....(or did I missed it?)

[@christiancruz4533]

Awesome.what. a great story❤

[@1339LARS]

Great!!!!! //Thanks!! //Lars

[@maxsmith3894]

I Think that the incorrect model of B17 if depicted in the simulation. I don't believe the early models had a top ball turret and the back top gunner?

[@robbieadams1865]

How COOL is this ??? I an i.....these days any good is a rare, Brilliant idea

[@pete-mz9vr]

Great video

[@TJ3]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnnyfelipe6248]

exactly the content i came for

[@davefellhoelter1343]

I never asked the Name of Grampa Funk's ships. Sorry Garamps', I was Young. but I did Study this and other events of this history. Gramps did say B 17's and quite some on training tragidies in the Mojave and Ca. maybe an early E.W.O. before the ,worst show, later in Allied air superiority. he wanted No. credit for other's service and sacrifices, pre ETO Allied Air Supeirority. RIP Greatest! "I Miss You!" sorry I did not ask more, but I did What "I thought" was OK? considering history I knew, and what you must have watched or did, tasted, smelled, touched, felt, heard, know and remebered. Thank you for sharing, your services, and sacrifice for all the World and US. God Bless! the Greatest Generation! Please? from Both Theators! Love You.

[@marooner-martin]

Anyone else hear the audio go from mono to stereo to mono at around 5:50?

[@SharkHustler]

Great story, and equally well-told as well! ... And from what I've since witnessed of the limited [KZbin] trailer-/teaser-footage, your [unmatched] CGI-enhanced cinematography almost 'puts-to-shame' the technical quality and [historical] accuracy offerings regarding the acclaimed *'Masters'* Series. _'Bravo!'_ ... Perhaps 'they' should have hired you and your team _tout de suite_ into doing this Series, instead (of 'their' fast-tracked 15-year-old Game Boy-inspired 'war-nerd' CGI-grads, hastily hired-on the spot 'there' - something akin to those [late-war] expendable and [equally] hastily-'trained' _'Hitlerjugend'_ _Sonderkommando Elbe_ Luftwaffe units [who are likely now all working for McDonald's!]). Thanks for posting!

[@TJ3]

Thank you!!

[@IowanLawman]

100th Bomb Group were truly.......... Masters Of The Air.

[@GeneralGayJay]

I am surprised the B-17 crews didn't accidentally shoot at themselves.

[@AlaskaRailroadGuy679]

can you make a video about the 11th Air Force in alaska

[@michaelkubis7573]

The TV series “Masters of the Air” shows this mission. And how deadly it was. It’s a very embarrassing episode.

[@RonnKnox-vs9jl]

You said that 9 B-17's were shot down. You meant from this bomb group, right? My understanding was that a total of 60 B-17's were shot down in the Regensburg raid.

[@TJ3]

Correct!

[@JSFGuy]

Several minutes into it I get a notice. Oh well, let's check it out.

[@brooklynbummer]

The raid was a good idea straitly but had little chance to succeed in reality.

[@rogerbust]

Good, but have you ever thought of acknowledging some of your Allies (Hint: Down Under)?"

[@TJ3]

Have you watched my video on Patterson Hughes?

[@rogerbust]

@@TJ3 Yes. Is that the only one? The US was not the only country to suffer and fight Japan.

[@Seadog..C5]

This is a 2200 mile mission?????? B-17 G range (best fuel range of all variants) 1970 mi.

[@teddysmith457]

I never realized that they considered 1943 early in the war…

[@luke-e2e6y]

WE STILL HAVE THAT FIGHTING SPIRIT!

[@Za7a7aZ]

What a nightmare for these guys..chances to get shot down and maybe die within the maximum missions you had to fly were greater than to survive. Dont understand why the americans insisted on daylight missions with incredible losses while the english flew nighttime missions with less losses..

[@Ford_Raptor_R_720hp_V8]

*“Black Thursday” October 14, 1943: The Second Schweinfurt Bombing Raid* Oct 17, 2022 The NATIONAL WWII MUSEUM *The Combined Bomber Offensive (CBO) in the European Theater was one of America’s bloodiest campaigns.* The Combined Bomber Offensive (CBO) in the European Theater was one of America’s bloodiest campaigns. Operating from bases in the United Kingdom, the US Army Air Forces (USAAF) flew missions over occupied Europe alongside their Royal Air Force (RAF) counterparts from Bomber Command. The CBO sought to reduce German infrastructure and its capacity to support the Nazi war effort. The campaign also aimed to establish air supremacy over the continent in support of future ground offensives. Targeting factories, naval yards, airfields, and assembly facilities, the Allied air forces attacked German cities, production plants, and industrial areas. While the RAF executed area bombing at night, the Americans attempted precision attacks by day. In this three-year combined campaign, the U.S. 8th Air Force spearheaded the American bombing effort over Europe, but suffered more than 70,000 casualties. In response to the Allied air offensive, the German Luftwaffe built a strong integrated air defense system with interceptor aircraft guided by ground based radar controllers. German ME-109, FW-190, ME-110, and JU-88 fighters attacked Allied aircraft as they flew over occupied Europe. Additionally, anti-aircraft artillery, or “flugabwehrkanone,” commonly referred to as “flak,” also targeted the Allied bombers. The Luftwaffe flak arm, eventually numbering over one million personnel, included thousands of 88, 105, and 128mm guns strategically located near potential targets or on recognized bomber routes. As the two sides clashed, the air war became a test of resiliency with the Luftwaffe and Allied crews locked in a high altitude battle of attrition. Representing the ferocity of this aerial contest was a mission flown on October 14, 1943. In what became known as “Black Thursday”, the 8th Air Force’s 1st and 3rd Air Divisions flew from bases in East Anglia and attacked German ball bearing factories 400 miles away at Schweinfurt, Germany. Because much of the German war machine relied on low friction ball bearings, air planners believed that destroying ball bearing production would have a cascading effect upon the Nazi ability to wage war. While an earlier strike on Schweinfurt in August cost the USAAF 60 bombers, equaling 20 percent of the attacking force, the raid reduced bearing production by 40 percent. The Germans, however, quickly rebounded and the Allies scheduled a second raid. Although the Americans initially believed they could fly bombers unescorted into enemy territory, this early phase of the air war provided some harsh lessons. Despite bristling with up to ten machine guns, the US B-17 and B-24 heavy bombers were constantly harassed by German defenses with American losses beginning to mount. Losses became so great that American aircrews would not, statistically, survive their required 25 mission combat tours. While realizing the need for fighter escort to protect the bombers, Allied pursuit aircraft in 1943 lacked the range to fly much past the French and Dutch coastlines. As a result, the October Schweinfurt raid’s 291 bombers were escorted for only the first 200 miles of their trek. For the remaining 200 miles the bombers flew without any fighter protection. With the B-17s in their “combat box” formation approaching Aachen, the USAAF’s P-47 fighters reached the limits of their range of operation. Signaling their departure they wagged their wings at the B-17s in a friendly farewell, peeled off, and returned home. As soon as the American fighters left, the Luftwaffe struck. Despite a failed attempt to create an aerial diversion using B-24s heading to the North Sea, the Germans tracked the American primary B-17 formation with radar the moment it took to the air. As the P-47s cleared the area, radar guided German fighters came at the bombers. Single engine German fighters, three and four abreast, attacked head-on at American formation and fired 20mm cannons at close range. This first wave was quickly followed by a second consisting of heavy twin engine JU-88 fighters. The larger fighters not only fired heavy bore cannons, but also 21cm rockets launched from beneath their wings. Firing these projectiles from up to 1,000 yards away, the JU-88s could safely remain outside the effective range of the bomber’s defensive guns. Packing considerable explosive firepower, a single rocket could easily destroy a bomber in only one salvo. Shooting rockets at the lead bomber, the JU-88s forced the American formation to break up as individual B-17s conducted evasive action. Such tactics ruined the American formation’s mutually supporting defensive fires. The Luftwaffe coordinated their attacks effectively as they focused on individual groups within the formation. Overwhelming the unit’s defensive capabilities, the Germans then turned on the damaged stragglers that fell out of the defensive bomber formation. What made matters worse for the USAAF was that Luftwaffe crews flying from their home bases had time to land, refuel, rearm, and sortie again. This process would continue as the bomber formation flew to and from the target area. By the time the Americans approached Schweinfurt, their formations had already lost 28 planes. With the 1st Bomb Division in the lead, crews of the trailing 3rd Division reported that their path to the target was easily marked by the smoke and fire of downed B-17s from preceding formations. Before reach the target the 40th Bomb Group, already lost seven of 49 planes with many others damaged. As the bombers reached the “initial point” and started their bomb runs, German aerial attacks abated. The absence of enemy fighters along with clear weather was welcomed, but Luftwaffe flak guns now engaged the formations. Aircrews avoiding direct hits could still hear the sound of shrapnel as it penetrated or ricocheted off their bomber’s thin aluminum skin. While gunners could shoot back at pursuing fighters, there was nothing to be done regarding the flak. They had to ride through the barrage. Despite the mauling the formations took, their bombs accurately struck the ball bearing complex. Surviving aircraft of the 40th Group dropped 53 percent of their bombs within 1,000 feet of the aim point. Of the 1,122 high-explosive bombs dropped, 143 landed on the factory area with 88 direct hits. Despite the accuracy of the raid, however later analysis eventually determined that German ball bearing production dropped by a mere 10 percent. Having successfully delivered their payloads, the bombers now faced the same dangers on their return home. German fighters again pressed their attacks with one airman claiming: “…never had we seen so many Germans in the sky at one time and never had their attacks seemed so well coordinated…wherever one looked in the sky there were Germans attacking, and B-17s smoking, burning, and spinning down.” The Luftwaffe continued its attacks until the bombers reached the English Channel. Eventually the surviving bombers lumbered to England, with many landing at the first airfield they could find while some put down in the first level ground available. By the time the Americans returned home, they had lost 60 B-17s, another 17 were no longer airworthy, and an additional 121 received minor damage. That was only the material loss. The number of aircrew killed, wounded, or missing in action was more than 600, totaling almost 20 percent of the men sortied. These grim numbers were double what 8th Air Force planners consider an acceptable loss rate. While gunners in the bombers claimed 186 Luftwaffe fighters downed, 27 “probable”, and another 89 damaged, such tallies were wildly inflated. Many men often claimed credit for the same fighter passing through a formation with other claims mere wishful thinking. For that date, German records revealed a loss of only 31 fighters destroyed, 12 written off and 34 damaged-hardly what the Americans claimed. At the time, USAAF leaders lauded the effect and claimed victory despite the high American loss rate. 8th Air Force commander Lieutenant General Ira Eaker pronounced, “We now have our teeth in the Hun Air Force’s neck…,” but such a claim was pure canard and wildly inaccurate. While USAAF leadership publically declared success, privately they expressed deep concern over the losses as morale of 8th Air Force dropped. The reality was that deep penetrations into Germany without fighter escort were too costly. For the rest of 1943, the 8th Air Force limited its attacks to France, the European coastline, and the Ruhr Valley where fighter escort was possible. Air planners avoided similar raids deep into Germany until the P-51 “Mustang” fighter with its extended range, excellent maneuverability, and ample armament became operational. However, the experience of “Black Thursday” had a lasting effect not only on the men and the planes, but it also made the USAAF reassess its theory of daylight strategic bombardment. Winning the air war would require new doctrines, equipment, and take much of 1944.

[@USAACbrat]

no body mentions, that the second element was late take off and followed the same course. not too smart. gave the luft. time to land, resupply and regain altitude. tactical mistake committed by leaders inexperienced warfighters. Good thing the RAF never had this problem early in the war.

[@USAACbrat]

gotta do better than this to get my likes.

[@muddy250]

I was thinking the same thing, they didn't fly together as planned due to fog so the 100th were hung out to dry and the second group similarly hammered.

[@paul7TM]

As much as I like episode three of Masters of the Air portraying this mission this clip is much better. Masters overall has been disappointing.

[@TJ3]

Thank you!

[@SoloPilot6]

5:05 -- loaded B17s make 3-point takeoffs, not tails-up "Gooney Bird" style.

[@skypiratez]

Made with DCS WWII?

[@The1trueJester]

War thunder

[@AnthonyTobyEllenor-pi4jq]

The narrator mentions, ''crossing France", reality is they were nowhere near France.

[@charlesmcgowen7238]

So very brave they were.

[@henrypena2547]

Brave crew

[@Ben-zr4ho]

We simply shouldnt have bothered with these mass high altitude daylight raids until we had fighters that could escort them all the way and aerial supremacy.

[@mred8002]

My dad disliked talking about his time, nor the medals I found. He did mention having to climb out in the open bomb bay to kick loose a rack of armed bombs that failed to drop, and ditching in the Channel

[@manfrommeeteetse3880]

I had a friend who flew on this mission. He told me similar stories of having to kick stuck bombs loose out of the bomb bay. When I took a tour of a B-17 I walked through the Bomb bay, I was astounded how narrow the walkway was. At 30,000 ft I would have thought that it was terrifying. He said they had no parachutes on when they were working in the Bomb bay.

[@mred8002]

@@manfrommeeteetse3880 No room to wear a parachute of the time, no safety ropes, nothing but icy air. I think the maneuver was done at lower altitude, so oxygen not needed, and they tried to do it over the channel. Not much choice, though, as landing with armed bombs would limit their life expectancy. I couldn’t do it. I can’t even use a hammer on a ladder as not enough hands.

[@Mike-vw7ct]

Why do none of your airplanes have invasion stripes?!?!

[@karlheinzvonkroemann2217]

The brutal reality of being a woman, child or elderly person on the recieving end of a firebombing attack in one of the 71 German cities that were so engulfed in flames. Which would you prefer?

[@peakbagger7682]

Incredible sacrifices for freedom

[@conceptalfa]

👍👍👍!!!

[@flypawels]

👍

[@mechcavandy986]

Where were the American fighter escorts?