The Business of NASCAR Charters with Spire’s Jeff Dickerson

In this episode, Kelley Earnhardt Miller sits down with Jeff Dickerson, co-owner of Spire Motorsports. Kelley and Jeff discuss his journey to NASCAR, and how Spire Motorsports was “accidentally” created. Jeff explains the current state of the NASCAR charter negotiations and offers his perspective on getting the deal done.
They discuss the evolving landscape of the sport, and how the instability of the current charter system affects sponsorship. Jeff also gives his opinions on the possibility of NASCAR implementing a spending cap for the teams and shares his insight on how close the two parties are to reaching an agreement.
Are all of the teams aligned in the charter negotiations with NASCAR? What needs to change to keep teams healthy within NASCAR’s charter system? Will the value of charters continue to rise?
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Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
03:19 - Involvement in Charter Deals
08:09 - The Formation of Spire Motorsports
13:17 - The Increasing Value of Charters
21:29 - The Challenges of the Business Model
27:01 - The Unified Stance of Teams
31:07 - The Complexities of Running a NASCAR Team
33:01 - The Importance of Collaboration in the NASCAR Industry
36:33 - Working Together to Grow the Sport
38:56 - Transparency
45:26 - The Impact of the New Car on Competition
47:50 - The Need to Fix Short Tracks
54:22 - Best Advice
01:01:08 - Emotion Doesn't Equate to Winning

[@trev3971]

With all due respect to Dale, these episodes with Kelley are the best thing on the channel. Keep 'em coming!

[@stevemullen8457]

Different is the word, they both do a great job.

[@Policearegood-mt6kx]

I am the complete opposite. I find these extraordinarily boring. I click off immediately when these download on my phone.

[@michaelsullivan1262]

Miss Kelley is the absolute best!

[@laurieerickson7205]

She really is, sometimes I forget that she earned her stripes as a driver back in the day. I’d love to hear her personal stories about growing up with Senior.

[@roberthevern6169]

Yes, thank you for saying that, cuz you saved me from having to point that out! Well done!

[@428eliminator3]

I love hearing the business aspect of racing. On a side note, I took a shot of Whiskey everytime Jeff said "you know" I'm checking into Betty Ford tomorrow.

[@JSkunk3223]

Kinda like Denny and “fur shur” lol

[@travisdouglas5402]

Would love it if kelly had a regular show on dirty mo media on the business side of NASCAR. Im getting back into the sport after a decade and all the podcasts have been an amazing way to understand where the sport is today and the health of the sport for the future. Thank you.

[@TheSammyreynolds]

Kelly does the show when she can. She is a busy woman running Jr. Motorsports.

[@roberthevern6169]

If the demand is there, I feel confident Kelley would recognize and jump on it. But, we must consider her family, which is her first priority.....

[@roberthevern6169]

​@@TheSammyreynoldsexactly, plus her family comes first, and the kids are only young once!

[@johnhaas2523]

​@@roberthevern6169 That's not much of a priority since age of the kids. The higher priority than doing a show on The running Jrm and making sure it's a successful team along with handling of juniors stuff as his business manager

[@markhenry6199]

Awesome interviewer!! Awesome guest!! Makes for a super show-interesting, informative, educational, etc.!! Thanks!!

[@Mymusickb]

Kelley probably gets overshadowed a bit by Jr. Even though he talks about her alot but shes the reason for Jr's financial success, and kept him grounded all these years. She's an awesome person. Intelligent AF!!

[@dillonbrown1454]

Love Kelly. A real Boss. An inspiration to women everywhere.

[@derekringering309]

There are a million things i want to say about these Business of Nascar podcasts but i'll just say this one thing. Kelley Earnhardt is such a freaking bad ass! Even her interviewing skills are elite. Im not surprised but just seriously impressed.

[@racegrubb2152]

Right there with ya in that for sure. She is very impressive

[@georgeb2590]

One of the best "inside" nascar interviews ever. Glad to see Kelly add her knowledge etc to the conversation. The more we get to know the "players" the more likely to cheer for their success of not as the case may be. Amazon lit a fire under F1 and could do the same for Cup.

[@rickeh100]

I am sitting here with my Cory hat on in Canada, watching a recorded F1 race. Watching the Dallas Colorado hockey game, listening to Jeff and Kelly , the business of NASCAR has changed in a big way. It is no longer a family friendly business model. With the charters giving teams value, (what is a pro sports team worth) ownership needs VALUE not what is your used equipment worth. Sponsorship and business opportunities need value….. sorry but the era of the past is changing….on line distribution through streaming and other distribution systems will be the future. We need to embrace the future…..sorry for the rant but at 66 I am watching live TV and recorded F1 race, listening to Kelly and Jeff, surfing to find the Jays in 30 to get caught up with todays afternoon game. Great podcast Kelly and Jeff!

[@AdzSONLINE]

This was absolutely fantastic, thank you

[@Redbirdgangipad]

I have been watching the old NASCAR races on the NASCAR Classics channel and there is this guy from I think "76 fuels" (maybe a PR guy ?) he's in just about every victory lane video from about 1979 through the 90s. He has a unique style all his own...he sports's what looks like gold rim sun glasses, a mountain man beard, an open collar shirt, big hair..... it all just screams the 1970's. Remarkably his style does not changed for at least 20 years. Just as impressive is that he genuinely seems to be more excited about being in victory lane than many of the race winners. Who is he? What's the story? How would he feel about the "frontstretch" celebrations?.... my bet is that he find away to be there on the frontstretch still photo bombing all the victories.... I think he's that committed.

[@Aaron25thinfantry]

Kelly is awesome! It’s a shame that the cost of charters keeps the Earnhardts out of Cup. It just isn’t worth it for them. NASCAR needs Kelly and Jr to be in Cup!!!

[@va.cracker9318]

They blew it when they had the opportunity to get the charters at 1 to 2 million. JR. Is notoriously cheap. It's his fault they don't have charters.

[@DerrickRG]

​@@va.cracker9318 They can't compete in cup anyway with the HMS ownership share, they'd count towards the 4 car cap limit. So it's not really worth talking about anyway.

[@maryannproffitt44]

Good interview Kelly.

[@CharlotteCaniac]

I used to stand on the roof in Charlotte to watch the races near the spotters and can remember Jeff spotting for the 5 car at the end of spotters row. Always wondered who that guy was, until I saw Jeff on this podcast and recognized him!

[@bobbolieu9013]

More people need to spend time just being around these two people. The wealth of knowledge, understanding, insight and history is large than the US Treasury and worth more than IMF.

[@JessieLC2455]

Great interview! Love to hear Kelley talk to others about the business! NASCAR & teams need to understand, fans ability to consume NASCAR has been squeezed. Entertainment income is down! Keeping NASCAR affordable for fans needs to be important. We fans are loyal but not when we cant afford to watch!

[@Lodifootball]

We love you, Miss Kelly🤙❤️🏁🇺🇸

[@darrelladams4188]

I fell into NASCAR fandom back in the late 90’s. There’s wasn’t a ‘ charter system ‘ it was Top 35 in points. If I’m heard the story correctly. NASCAR wanted a field # to be stable for all events…. The Owners wanted something stable ( a tangible asset). The answer that was approved between NASCAR and the Owners ( then ) was the Charter. 36 teams guaranteed to make the event and make the show. NASCAR has 4 charters for a new OEM and 4 open spots. NASCAR never wanted the Charters to be “ forever “. I’m not happy with the charter system but I’m ok with it….. if it comes to the time when 45 - 50 teams show up at every race then I’m ok with the charter system

[@eallend]

Great job Kelley. The money subject is a necessary evil, but still feels greasy. My thought is, if we can’t get a sponsor to put their logo on a car for a full season(barring a couple teams), then where is this perceived value inflating the prices on these charters? Who’s paying the teams? If like Jeff said big investors want to come in, and just operate at a loss for the sake of running a race car, that’s where we are. So far all I see is the world’s perception of the value and market space nascar holds going down, and the price of charters going up. The good old days are for sure in the past.

[@zander9774]

1. Not many full season sponsors are left cause it costs $15-20M a year and half that can be spent on digital ads for better return. 2. Charter values went up because the TV contract went up and the percentage of that paid to teams is expected to increase. 3. Why talk about good ole days like motorsports haven't always been a money pit. Let's look at all the owner driver teams that tried and failed in the good ole days even with a notable name and sponsor.

[@eallend]

@@zander9774that’s good info but we’re looking for improvement in racing and entertainment. The sponsor point is an example of the fact that nobody knows who today’s drivers are. There is no branding, no personality in the sport left. Thats an opinion, facts and tidbits you google are neat but not the point. Cost caps could help, the cars were supposed to be cheaper and aren’t. If the cost to sponsor a full season is too high, then lower the cost of doing business and operating a race car so that the sponsors don’t have to outlay as much.

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@eallendCutting costs is much easier said than done given the jump in labor costs over the past few years.

[@roberthevern6169]

Hi Kelley! Hope LW and Karsyn are well! Been missing you! Thanks for your huge contribution to DMM!

[@user-bt8vn3dj6o]

A great presentation. Thanks for educating me on this complex question! It would be nice if Fox and NBC would talk up all the drivers instead of just the Top 10. Flo Racing puts on a nice show.

[@johnhaas2523]

You're lucky if they even talk to all of the top 10

[@7viewerlogic670]

Great info.

[@JSkunk3223]

If you build it, they will come. NASCAR needs to be elite and the tracks do too. TV deal hopefully helps all parties involved. NASCAR you have to help the teams. Every race should be a life time memory spectacle inside and outside the track. You can do it, and more horsepower too. Times they are a changing, like it or not. Make tracks great not gimmicks, off to North wilksboro I go. Wet weather tires🤞🏻

[@wew5499]

😬😬😬

[@timothykirkman7097]

Good work kelly

[@tombrown8428]

Great show

[@terryattewell5842]

Kelly is awesome!!

[@Mtlmshr]

It just goes to show that “LUCK” is a thing! But my definition of “LUCK” is when preparation and opportunity meet! If you have your preparation done with hard work the opportunity will show themselves!

[@manowire5403]

Very informative episode !!!! naming this one the "you know" episode.... and Now we know

[@pattyvanbenthuysen4881]

Jeff started in Sprint cars,Putnamville

[@pattyvanbenthuysen4881]

Jeffrey Love from Indiana ❤

[@jasonuslobster7769]

Keep charters as is, expand field back to 43 cars to allow small teams to make there way in and be an,e to make the race

[@exerscreen2525]

Being a service provider to a monopoly can be tricky 😅

[@frostysgrill]

The best bet is to invest in the tracks. Build it and own it. Nascara belittled it’s fan base to the point of sponsorships will have to come from space or terrorist organizations! Good job 🏁

[@jeffhenson1994]

kellly all day

[@DavidClark-vu3dw]

A lot of information wasn't discussed in the beginning to set up this interview. Like his business and how he created that first before getting into becoming a team owner.

[@johnhaas2523]

A lot of that stuff is already been discussed in other interviews with Jr himself on the download

[@Redbirdgangipad]

I know it seems like I'm posting this question everywhere which I am but I just got to know about that dude from I think 76 fuels that's in every victory lane salvation throughout the late 70s .... 80s and 90s there just has to gotta be more to his story

[@erronflynn8766]

👍🏻

[@briansenecal3071]

U guys need to git Prime Time Chuck on here about North Wilkes.

[@kaleta036]

All due respect she is an amazing woman and her husband is a lucky man.

[@tmklunk]

I don’t know much about charters but it seems like a money grab by the powers that be! I would love to see Dale and Kelley in cup!

[@DavidClark-vu3dw]

Interesting that Jr. is worth around 400 million but doesn't want to do it.

[@tnwhiskey68]

Is he kin with Yoder? Man they look a lot alike!

[@marcusvillarreal]

I predict Christopher Bell will win this weekend at the all star race because joe gibbs racing has been good on short tracks this year

[@jasonjackson5493]

I'm just not sure about these charters! I get the teams want value but I don't want it being just a select few of only the richest being able to get in! If you have a small fortune and want to start a race team, you should be able to do it!

[@tnwhiskey68]

Charters can be good and bad! I understand not investing heavily without one and sponsors wanting a guaranteed appearance for their investment BUT charters have allowed teams to spend ridiculous amounts of money and therefore making newcomers non competitive. We'll never see days like when Mark Martin or DW built their own car and ran well. Teams make good money but they spend it all.

[@heavenlyblue]

I am against Charters - it should be the fastest cars make it into a Nascar race - not who owns a Charter. The Charters are a way for the current Teams to make money and be successful, and keep others including competitors out of Nascar - unless you are a billionaire and can buy your way in. The fastest cars should be in the Nascar races as mentioned.

[@zander9774]

I will never understand this argument against charters as if some journeyman driver with a genius mechanic or a Mom&Pop team would show up to race if they didn't exist. We've had 10+ years of start n park shenanigans that say otherwise. Nvm every race has 4 spots for unchartered cars they just don't get used outside big purse races like Daytona/Texas.

[@SEOKLADUCKIN]

It's a "show" .. Not a "race"...

[@roberthevern6169]

'Racing'...isn't that an entertainment type industry? A group of gearheads got together at a Florida location some 75 yrs ago. Sound familiar....?

[@jasonuslobster7769]

Keep the charters as is, expand field back to 43 to allow small teams to make there way in

[@davidhays5285]

Good idea...but small teams can't even afford to buy tires for the whole race...so there is really no incentive for them to show up ​@@jasonuslobster7769

[@jocalafarms4051]

Kelly let it slip, she and Dale feel there getting older and dont want the headaches going to cup. Their growing the media thing, which they can control more

[@johnhaas2523]

Junior said on serious XM radio that 2 options if he and Kelly both want to do. 1 get an investor so let's say he replaces Tony Stewart and Gene is The investor with two cars and it's Jr motorsports and Gene has nothing to do with the team. Option two buy into an existing team with one car such as would be like JTG racing

[@jacobnichols1947]

So instead of taking $40 million and invest in ones own race team you have to spend it on being able to be allowed to race each weekend? Not only that but its a "here today, gone tomorrow" business model with hopes that it stays in place. Nice to put a face to the problem with nascar

[@georgejones5960]

Hero to a zero is what they are saying, exactly why lawyers are so important these days unfortunately, everyone involved has to know where they are and their goals!

[@bradhagen4594]

its the fastest who gets paid, the fastest who gets...

[@SHOE53]

At end of the day nascar will control the charter.

[@PitbullN.C.]

They already do

[@Sheryl-1974]

It's all about MONEY it's sad!!

[@cndream1]

Well, Xfinity seems to survive just fine without charters and right now puts on a great if not equal show to Cup. You should not have to have a charter in order to have a equal opportunity to race. The charter cr#@ is just like F1 and now Andretti can't get in and race

[@geraldwilson3559]

It amazes me how little the fans can learn about NASCAR because so little info is available. Gerald.

[@jake21494]

Tons of info available out there. What do you want to learn?

[@ericlowery339]

If Taylor Swift dumped Kelce and started dating Chase Elliott all of NASCAR's attention problems would be resolved. There I fixed it for you.

[@donnstambaugh1506]

Answer this please. Why would nascar” not” want charters? And go beyond “control” thanks.,.

[@maxnoe3079]

At this point NASCAR isn’t a business. All the teams lose money. It’s just a racing toy for the super rich to play with.

[@johnhaas2523]

Most of the owners like Rick Hendrick you know the older ones They were in it for the love of it and if made some money other than enough to pay bills and employees it was good

[@_whyte.woods_1256]

Does he only have 1 arm?

[@PitbullN.C.]

Double edge sword but nascar has all controlling interest

[@arthurhouston3]

Started with NASCAR 1962 the end is near. Will not pay to watch. The prime move is RIP. Will not do business with Amazon and Jeff Bavoes. It was fun. Loved you dad. NFL after KC Mia playoff game 2024 said never again. What NASCAR thinks they are smarter?

[@johnhaas2523]

Bozo

[@DerrickRG]

Streaming is the future, but NOT they way it's currently implemented. None of the streamers outside of Netflix are even close to turning a profit. Streaming made more sense when it was just a small handful of services. Not the mess we have now which costs more than a basic cable plan. I'm with you, this is stupid, just stay on TV.

[@mastercarpenter1970]

The prime move is not rest in peace because bezos and the owner of TNT was smart enough to sign Dale Jr to a broadcast deal!

[@wew5499]

More confusing bullshit that complicates things. Ugh🙄