The Case of Owen and the Memorials | Doug Wilson

[@joshhigdon4951]

Brother Doug's face when he flashed up that comment for us to "consider this little gem" was priceless! Goodness gracious this is a man to love!

[@smhbbag1]

Nothing in that comment is sinful or wrong.

[@joshhigdon4951]

@@smhbbag1 did in write that?

[@meincomf516]

​@@joshhigdon4951its pretty clear Doug implied it, but as with so many things in this conversation, he won't make his positions explicit.

[@cosmictreason2242]

The fact that a neonatzi is defending the comment tells you it is sinful

[@joshhigdon4951]

Crazy how many Doug haters run amok in the comments section.

[@Jonathanped]

I am the “Baptist considering presby political theology, babies and all.” Thank you so much for your clear teachings on these issues. Videos like these have helped me understand the issues of our day and my responsibilities as a husband, father, church member and more. God bless you and your ministry.

[@adamjohns78]

I think let’s helpful to point out that taking a stand against Zionism is quite different than being an anti-Semite

[@douglasdelong1526]

Never apologize for being White.

[@UgliestManOnEarth-69]

Who ever asked for such?

[@Razaiel]

A quick Google search turns up numerous responses to your question. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYDVnql_p5ymsKssi=EYZb3SGHNx_a825_

[@joshhigdon4951]

Wonder why the replies are not showing up? Hahaha. But yes, you are correct. No one should apologize at all for the amount of melanin their skin possesses. We should apologize for sinning against one another.

[@siamakga]

Just be careful. Race is the game, left is trying to play to wipe out Christianity only because most of the traditional Christian countries (west) are white so don't play their games. Preach the gospel louder.

[@aallen5256]

⁠@@siamakga this sounds like paranoid nonsense..

[@domeretaylor4437]

I know you catch a lot of heat. But what I love about Douglas Wilson and his ministry is that he does not run from the fire and does not apologize for God or his word! While I agree that the abrasiveness of scripture can ruffle feathers, that's why pastoral eldership is prescribed to men, because we will do it, if we are faithful! Not that we should glory in harshness or controversy, but that we would be steadfast and move according to the word of God and not according to our anxieties and public reputation. I am blessed by your ministry. (I don't agree with everything.) But I love you and appreciate your teaching and faithfulness! To God be the glory. 🙏🏾

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

What you perceive as a bold stand against kinism is that KZbin makes it impossible for a comprehensive refutation of Doug's anti-kinism without being banned. In other words, KZbin does the dirty work of censorship so that Doug can promote his views with impunity.

[@domeretaylor4437]

@virtualpilgrim8645 My comment was not actually related to his views on kinism at all. My comment was pertaining to his general teaching and demeanor which was represented well in this clip. I am less interested in the subject of Kinism atm. Maybe some day.

[@FozzyBBear]

When given the chance to emigrate to the US nearly a decade ago, I naturally chose the global epicenter of the Scottish diaspora. Although that place is a long way from Moscow ID, 200 years ago my ancestors were working in the lace mills and managing the estates within 4-5 miles of Moscow's Ayrshire namesake and I've visited the cemeteries in both towns to clean their graves. I don't care what epithet that earns me from postmodernist weirdo clowns, I will always honor my mother and father, and their houses. I may be a stranger in a strange land, yet I am among my people.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

I read your comment twice and I don't know what you're talking about you're being very clever but obtuse.

[@Yesica1993]

"Your people", if you claim to be a follower of Christ, are those that also follow Him. Period.

[@restorehumility3538]

Thank you DW. You are such a blessing…. I am working my way through your books. Every single one has helped me in countless ways…. My first ever fiction was yours & I listened to it with my teen daughter & she LOVED it. It sparked such wonderful conversations about God’s grace & many other topics🥰👍

[@HusGoose]

As a reformed Baptist I wholeheartedly agree with the Knox memorials. Well done to Doug and the rest of the author(s)! Simply put, spot on, and cuts in every way against racial supremacy. You are right about Baptist leadership being caught flat footed on anything other than a common grace focused governance. We have forgotten who we are, lulled to sleep by the benefits of general equity and fat off the freedom trust fought for by our fathers. Love you guys and everything you are doing in spite of your baby baptizing wayz. 😆✝

[@jamescook5617]

If you want to take the wind out of the boomercon criticism, argue for an inclusion of a corrective statement against the evils of the current secular Jewish state. That's not antisemitic. We can love Israel as a people and simultaneously reject the persecution of Christians by the nation of Israel. That's the problem folks have with your generation, there has been a conflation of the Jewish people and the modern state of Israel. I'm pretty sure you don't disagree, so, if you want to reduce calls of boomerism, then defuse this one.

[@aallen5256]

The state of Israel is persecuting Palestinians, not Christians..

[@cosmictreason2242]

Why would it need to be specified? Must every white nation also be abominated and said to be distinct from the people who make up those nations? If not, then your misplaced emphasis shows exactly why CREC should not do as you demand, as that would in fact be racist

[@jetrpg22]

You sweet summer child. No hate.

[@YSLRD]

At one point, I looked at the bar to see the progress and was delighted to see 9 minutes was only one third in. This one gets watched twice. Maybe 3 times.

[@qwerty123494210]

I was at the G3 conference. There was a lot of strawman arguments, whether deliberate or not. Doug is right.

[@wylian84]

About 10% walked out when Owen took the pulpit

[@treesquatch9150]

​@@wylian84 thats simply not true

[@wylian84]

@@treesquatch9150 you are right, supposedly there was 8 thousand people....about 200-300 got up and left

[@austinholcomb3456]

I’d love to see you and James talk about this in sweater vests

[@Razaiel]

Up until this year, I had never heard of the world "kinism" & assumed that it was a made-up word. Now that I've seen the incessant kvetching about this largely non-existent issue, it seems to me that it is similar to all the other accusations of -ists, -ics & -isms & can be largely dismissed as scary words to keep the normies in line.

[@joemerkel9699]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinism

[@networktwentythree]

>kvetching Well played 😎

[@Razaiel]

Yes, I understand that it's a real word and I refuse to accept Wikipedia as a credible source. Kinism is basically just racism with extra steps & that's the cardinal sin of our state mandated religion.

[@joemerkel9699]

@CP-dk8oi you said Kinism was made up. Wikipedia proves that it was a thing clear back to 2015 (the first edit). My point has nothing to do with whether the information is slanted or not. I don’t think there is any value is arguing with you about the validity of their argument

[@benjamingallows]

@@joemerkel9699 finds out “kinism” was coined in 2015 and argues that it wasn’t made up recently. Any term that was coined after 1913 to demonize normal White Christian behavior and sentiment should automatically be viewed with suspicion. Especially anything coined post 9/11/2001. 2015 is far from “way back”.

[@kevinjackson4933]

This response is exactly what was needed.

[@joegriffith810]

I think you can chalk this up to young men in high positions. Owen does not have the wisdom of an older man. Hopefully Dr. White will assist him. Love you Doug!

[@kathyheavner3585]

John MacArthur. A faithful minister. The world really does hate him.

[@paulasueInChrist]

Thank you from Breaux Bridge, Louisiana!

[@TheSergio1021]

Just gonna say that the story of the black conservative saying he's offended cause the sign wasnt any bigger was gold

[@GrahamJordan-nb4xo]

I disagree with the spirit of the memorials, but Doug Wilson is the evangelic blow torch to the ice capped immobile talking heads that seem to dominate academia and some quote on quote christian coalitions. Nothing but love brother!

[@proudhon100]

What do you mean by anti-semitism? is criticising the Talmud anti-semitic? Is questioning whether Israeli citizens are actually the descendants of the Hebrews anti-semitic?

[@meincomf516]

Anti-semitic just means something jews don't like.

[@billbadson7598]

I have to admit to having fallen into that path (in an online-ironic, casually dismissive sort of way) in the past. But, as you say, it built up in me as a defense mechanism in response to histrionics about how evil and dangerous I was because of the skin color I was born with. It’s very much as if the “racial justice” movement is just a thin veneer on a well-oiled machine meant to divide tribes and peoples and widen fault lines between them. I’ve largely grown out of it, but would have done so sooner and with less pain and trouble if I hadn’t felt constantly under attack (by people constantly attacking me) for the traits I was born with. They go out of their way to create their own enemies, but I won’t be an enemy for them, thank God.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

I don't know what you're talking about...

[@ethanmoon3925]

I know what you're talking about. It's tough to stay Biblical when you feel defensive. We grew up being nice and minding our own business, and then got blamed for all the problems in the world. But God's call to walk in grace and truth goes beyond retaliating and replacing our theology with the word "based", better to be based on the Word.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

Same here. The allure of the alt-right was that it was saying some true things that you were never supposed to acknowledge at a time when cultural madness was being ratcheted up to 11. It brought some hope that there was a possible exit route from the godless, globalist, Marxist multicultural Blade-Runner world that we were driving towards at 100 mph. At the time it seemed that possibly the only solution to have a sane civilization anywhere on this planet was for those of European descent to either secure power or carve out a place for themselves. Not too unlike the Japanese or Israelis. Now I’m not so sure that some sort of multi-cultural form of a Christian nation can’t be formed here. It’ll be tricky but not impossible. The most ironic part is that a more masculine form of conservative government seems to encourage more support from minorities. Trump is polling at historic highs with Hispanics and Blacks for example.

[@margiedenavarre7919]

I hope you and Owen sit down and hash this out, publicly or privately.

[@jamiesmith9827]

Owen has made it known that he will not sit/debate "Christian Nationalists" even ones who are just friendly with the CNs

[@kpope7007]

Shame Owen says he isn't open to a 1:1 discussion. Hoping Dr White can bring these sides together.

[@jtlearn1]

Didn't DW say he subscribed to the WCF american revised version in another video?!

[@bethsnider5796]

There’s just so much brilliance here

[@hokieham]

Owen was woke 5 minutes ago, so this is not surprising.

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

5:13 I love every bone in their heads. I love your turns of phrase.

[@AmbientClassical]

I was there, and I didn’t think for a moment that he was talking about Moscow.

[@cole141000]

Me neither but who on earth he was referring to I have no idea I think Kinism is an strange thing to focus on when it’s so obviously wrong and rare. I’d never even heard of it til Owen

[@AmbientClassical]

@@cole141000 It’s definitely out there on the fringes of the Christian Nationalism movement. I see it all the time on Twitter and such.

[@Vampyrekai]

​@@AmbientClassicalName one prominent figure who supports it.

[@Vampyrekai]

​@@cole141000When the woke church criticizes "racism" at every corner. Who are they talking about? No one. And that's the point. It's race hustling. Make up a fake enemy and fight that straw man. That's what Owen is doing. Pretending to fight a fake threat.

[@aallen5256]

@@Vampyrekai wait… you think racism doesn’t exist in America? How often do you think white lawyers get asked if they’re the defendant?

[@cparker4584]

It's curious that in a time of massive immigration from the global south and open anti-whyte bigotry and discrimination in the US, Doug and Owen are very concerned about whyte Christians noticing their ethnicity.

[@jetrpg22]

Wonder how many state sponsored, parent endorsed, white reeducation programs they had to sit through growing up as well. I'm sure the fact that people just broadcast anti whites vitriol has nothing to do this the current awareness of it. PS MASS immigration has been occurring in mass for over 30 years, arguably 60 years. So i don't think that's the change.

[@nvrprfct9176]

didn't watch the video I see?

[@aallen5256]

@@jetrpg22 when do you hear anti-white bigotry in your daily life?

[@jetrpg22]

@@aallen5256 News for sure. Daily as in every day or as a matter of routine? Because its rather common in person. If you don't It's because you only have whites around you.

[@aallen5256]

@@jetrpg22 You mean people on whatever news you watch tell you anti-white things are happening? I mean daily as in your actual everyday life. It's 'common' for you to encounter anti-white sentiments in person?? Weird that your first example was the news then..

[@Sarutaru06]

I see your point about turning off comments, though I'll still leave one for algorithms sake.

[@ShaneAnderson7]

Pastor Wilson is sadly mistaken about a number of things in this discussion. One of them concerns these memorial recommendations not being public. They were made public because they are the public actions of public presbyteries. His own executive pastor tweeted the texts of them last December.

[@daviddean4618]

If that is the case, it really doesn't matter. Pastor Wilson made no hay with that assertion other than to state he was glad the memorials are public.

[@LIGHTBEARER-bs3dr]

I been listening to this guy for years. I wish for once just once that i don't have pull out my dictionary.

[@thembamaselane5885]

Pastor Doug what is your response to the onslaught on Christian Nationalism at the sovereign nations conferences.

[@LIGHTBEARER-bs3dr]

It is Pastor Wilson---I am correcting your grammar and not speaking for him--Heaven is this you don't belong here..I will say again I do not like you and i like separate dinning facilities.

[@aallen5256]

@@LIGHTBEARER-bs3dr separate dining facilities for who??

[@TylerJames1646]

Andy Woodard came across as condescending and Sovereign continues to platform a pagan (James Lindsay). They’re not an organization that should be trusted.

[@LIGHTBEARER-bs3dr]

@@aallen5256 --I apologize for the confusion. I was drunk that night and i was trying to make a joke that did not even get off the ground. It just aggravated me that the guy asks him a question and refers to him as pastor doug. My father was a good friend of a famous preacher back in the day and i never called him by his first name. Not that my father or he would care if i did.

[@benjamingallows]

In regards to refuting the memorials presented: On the first memorial: Everyone ought to agree that ethnic heritage is something to be grateful for and which may be preserved in any way consistent with God’s law. But now we need a definition of Kinism that goes beyond believing people generally ought to marry within their race. Because if it’s okay to, as a White man, want White grandchildren, then it’s okay to not allow your daughter to date black men. But if that’s kinism, then that means you wouldn’t be allowed to discriminate against black men when considering suitors for your daughter. That’s a head scratcher. And if a White man can’t seek to preserve his ethnic heritage in even his own immediate family, on his own, how could a broader White community (shall I say nation) possibly seek to preserve their ethnic heritage together? And if house and wealth are inherited from fathers, would it not be consistent with God’s law to expect White people to be the preferred beneficiaries of the national resources in a nation founded by their ethnic forefathers? But that would imply some form of segregation. But given that anyone with eyes in their head can acknowledge that both blacks and Whites were better off when we had segregation laws (at least if we go by Christian metrics like divorce rates, crime rates and general cultural decency) I don’t think one can be so quick to write off segregation as inherently sinful or contrary to God’s law. In fact it can be a very useful tool in preserving multiple ethnic heritages. Or is only bad when White people use it? The constitution clearly states that all men are created equal, but 1. the constitution is not the law of God and 2. Just because all men are created equal doesn’t mean that all men should therefore have equal access to a particular nations resources. There’s a reason the naturalization act of 1790 explicitly stated that only White people could be citizens of America. On the second memorial: Putting aside the exegetical debates that can be had on Romans 11/Fullness of Gentiles being a qualitative phenomenon as opposed to a quantitive phenomenon and the “All of Israel being saved” having already taken place when the Gentiles, along with the remnant Jews (Nicodemus, Saint Peter, Saint Paul etc…) being United into one complete Israel with no distinction left between them after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. And the “provocation of jealousy” being the spiritual gifts of the apostles like speaking in tongues that caused many Jews at that time to be provoked to jealousy and ultimately faith in Christ. Thus making people who call themselves Jews today for any reason apart from being baptized in Christ essentially blasphemers of the Son of God and destined for nothing other than the deepest caverns of hell unless they repent. Putting that all aside. Let’s assume that Ashkenazis are legitimately the actual people/Jews that Paul is talking about in Romans 11 that the church is tasked with “provoking to jealousy”. It doesn’t follow that Christians aren’t allowed to call out the horrific influence ashkenazis have had on our culture through controlling both sides of the political aisle in DC, making up a significant amount of the porn industry, creating Hollywood that is basically a propaganda machine for anti-White Bolshevism, their overwhelming influence in organizations like the CDC, WHO and WEF all of which conspired against the entire world to unleash all manners of tyranny onto the public and then force a a completely worthless and poisonous death shot upon threat of losing your ability to earn an income for your family. A Christian should be allowed to call out those things when he or she sees them. How do we know that ashkenazis getting called out on their sins (like Paul called out the Cretans) isn’t part of God’s plan to ultimately provoke them to jealousy? To say that can’t possibly be part of the game plan is, in my opinion, highly suspect in of itself. Also if the overwhelming amount of early church fathers wouldn’t be able be members of the CREC on the basis of how anti-semitism is defined, the CREC is in trouble. Can I quote Luther, Tertullian, Origen, Augustine, Martyr, Chrystosom in regards to their views on Jews? Or would one only be allowed to quote the puritans? On the third memorial: If nations aren’t allowed to intentionally preserve a specific racial identity that reflects the people who founded her. That would suggest that there is no racial identity that is inherent to nations. But if that is the case, then what is the definition of nationalism that isn’t just globalism? This is not a rhetorical question, I’m honestly wondering. Obviously race is not the ONLY determinant of nationality, but if race is not at least included, I don’t know how a nation can expect to ultimately be meaningfully distinguished from any other nation, thus making way for the emergence of a form of globalism. And why is it that if we all imagine a Chinese/Zambian/Mexican/Japanese/Kenyan, we can at the same time imagine specific races associated with those nations. But for whatever reason, if I do that with any White nation, I’m supposed to feel like I’m denying the “unity we ought to have in Christ” and am now on the DHS watchlist for “dangerous extremism”? And what do we make of when God implies that the Ethiopian cannot change his skin? Is that not at least one biblical example (forgetting the natural examples we see all around us) that nationality and race share some kind of linked relationship? These may not be the refutations that would allow anyone to keep their position within the CREC or even their membership within a CREC church or job, for that matter, but they are refutations nonetheless. Warts and all.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

This is scary bad. So much outright white supremacy cloaked in high language and historical slight og hand. Neither, am I some bleeding heart lefty. Just an "every man is made in the image of God" Christian. Some of this falls into Christian liberty to be sure, but certainly there is nothing Biblical or lawful about preserving racial purity.

[@brianh1161]

Beautiful. Doug could respond with lots of words, but he couldn't refute anything you stated here.

[@lcarter6981]

I’m glad someone said it this well. Thank you.

[@brianh1161]

"But if that is the case, then what is the definition of nationalism that isn’t just globalism?" He might not admit it, but Doug has fundamentally accepted the modern definition of nation: whatever random group of individuals that happen to live inside some arbitrary boundary and have filled out the paperwork.

[@meincomf516]

Well said.

[@josephinewhite6224]

What exactly is kinism?

[@johnnyjohnsonston2581]

Thank you Pastor Wilson for loving the bones in my head 🥰

[@JesseStevenPollom]

Thanks for addressing this, Pastor Wilson. I, like many are left more confused after Owen's unhelpful comments. Who in the world are the kinists he's talking about?!

[@Vampyrekai]

Trolls online mostly. There is no relevant movement of White Supremacists in the Christian Nationalism movement. I follow a lot of big names in Christian Nationalism. Not a single one has any issue with other tribes, tongues people's or nations. They understand the gospel is for the whole world. No one of any significance is supporting a Racist White agenda. It's preposterous in the same way that the woke church criticisms of the church are .

[@aallen5256]

@@Vampyrekai you seem quite determined to deny the connection between white supremacy and Christian nationalism, yet Stephen Wolfe’s book (published by Doug) called the Case for Christian Nationalism has been found guilty of exactly this. Wolfe argues that if something is natural it must be good and it is our “natural inclination to dwell among simile people”. It’s essentially segregationist political theory.

[@Vampyrekai]

@@aallen5256 It's been found guilty? By what court? Yours? Stephen Wolfe is not a kinist. He has some ideas about cultures and ethnic groups you don't like. That's all. He doesn't view whites as superior and he does recognize that the Gospel is for all people's. He also recognizes that interracial marriages are completely lawful within God's kingdom. Again, you have no grounds for making such accusations.

[@aallen5256]

@@Vampyrekai he has ideas about the segregation of ethnic groups which racists and white supremacists like and agree with. The fact that he doesn’t disagree with interracial marriages is a very very low bar. Why carry water for people like this??

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@Vampyrekaia allen is a deranged atheist feminist, not to be taken seriously. She engages in bad faith all the time

[@betty8173]

Thank you, thank you.

[@KalliBella1]

Well said and thank you!

[@brianfrantz836]

I think the problem is people don't read and apply the bible.

[@CornerTalker]

- "I would Love you ten years before the flood, And you should, if you please, refuse Till the conversion of the Jews." Andrew Marvel - "To His Coy Mistress"

[@TypicalTGreen]

Why do the "cool kids" so often not seem very cool?

[@Mr_Gabbles]

Looking forward to word from our elders after they come back from the session

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

I would like a clear and concise definition of what pastor Wilson means by the word, Jew. Is he talking about people who live in Israel today? Would that include the Arabs and the people who don't believe in God? When he speaks of Jews, how does he know these people are pure blood Jews? What percentage of Jewish DNA makes one a Jew? Or is he talking about people who are embraced in the synagogue such as former Gentile Luke Ford? How does he know that the Jews today are the same people 2000 years ago? Is pastor Wilson talking about an ethnicity, DNA, religion, or mixed?

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

@@localfixx4184 1:53 2:39

[@meincomf516]

Marching to Zion is a hard to find but essential documentary on this topic. Are they jews by blood? How much blood is necessary, because there are an awful lot of people with traces of jewish blood. I'd also note that the idea that God has selected a group of people who are special and set apart exclusively due to their DNA is the essence of racism. Are they jewish because of circumcision? Our blasphemous and degenerate American church has been allowing and even endorsing this practice for over a century. Am I jew because some "doctor" mutilated my genitals as an infant? Or is it religion that makes someone a jew? Certainly no one would argue that a religion without temple, sacrifice, or priesthood bears any resemblance to that described in the Bible, so what then? As a final thought, consider this: we're Abraham and Moses jews?

[@Kenneth-nVA]

That was incredible brother

[@bizmogrowth9081]

He keeps referring to “kennism” (sp) - can someone fill me in on what he’s referring to?

[@aallen5256]

Kinism - it’s a white supremacist interpretation of Christianity, characterised by anti-immigrant sentiment and a push for racial segregation.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Kin-ism. Elevating preference For one's kin to a matter of worship. There are some who go around claiming that God commands "races" To be separate - they are them

[@IronFire116]

There are very few kinists, but Doug seems to be one.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@IronFire116 what is the goal of your slander? There's a vid from last year where Doug angrily repudiates kinism

[@IronFire116]

@@cosmictreason2242 In practice, Doug seems to be doing the things he is repudiating. Namely, giving preferential treatment to "his people". I do not believe this is slander.

[@lydiabouts8572]

THANK YOU.

[@marisolmagana6862]

Is Doug's concept of Christian Nationalism different than Webbon's??

[@TheSMEAC]

T-30 days until #NQN ❤

[@dmustakasjr]

Wow Doug! One heck of a video.

[@eazynelly9785]

I appreciate the comments, but a blog post of an individual pastor serves no function in the annals of history when these memorials are being enforced.

[@Guy-xr8lj]

There's no such thing as race in Jesus. We want all people to be Christians and to act out those beliefs in politics, family, and church.

[@JR-rs5qs]

Want memorials for these sins? They're already memorialized IN SCRIPTURE. Afraid of the comments? Well, without them you have no platform.

[@smhbbag1]

That comment you quoted istn' even sinful or anti-semitic. Drop the SJW-juice.

[@44golfreak]

Thought the same thing

[@cosmictreason2242]

Blaming everything on Jewish control is a deranged small dick syndrome and anyone not enslaved to sin can see it

[@theproclaimer588]

Smear-shade LOL

[@JR-rs5qs]

The CREC has added kinism to the list of unforgivable sin to make it the list of unforgivable sins.

[@leighalaughlin4056]

Keep teaching the herasy Elmer Gantry 2 Get thee behind me

[@interestedmeow]

Doug did a reverse Bulverism (something he’s quite adept at actually) when he preemptively stated why he wasn’t* wrong in what was about to follow, simply because he said he wasn’t. Quite a brilliant example in fact.

[@matthewdyer2926]

Can you give a time stamp or a quote to prove this?

[@interestedmeow]

@@matthewdyer2926 2:40

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek...

[@meincomf516]

What about outside of Christ?

[@meincomf516]

@@localfixx4184 amen brother

[@hudjahulos]

“Nor slave nor free, nor male nor female.” There’s nothing innately wrong with being thankful for the providential blessings of God, be it your sex, your freedom, or your homeland.

[@Yesica1993]

* reads title * Aw, no. Which of my Christian peeps are fighting among themselves yet again? Sigh.

[@chrisc414]

This comment/question is only relevant to one thing Doug said. But I'd love to get Doug's (or anyone else's) thoughts on this. I go to a PCA church. Been going for a while, but never officially became a member, because I was always under the impression I was on my way out (i.e., moving at some point in the near future). Probably not the best reason to not become a member. In any case, I found out my family will be staying in the area. So I went to the membership "class" where they explained what they believe member ship is, and why it's important. My pastor said something in passing. He said, "If you haven't (or if you refuse to) become a member, you've excommunicated yourself." Doug basically says if you're a baptized believer, that is sufficient to partake of the table. I would agree with that, provided there are no major sin issues that are not being dealt with. The question is, Is neglecting to become a member (for a certain amount of time) a sin issue that is not being dealt with?" I will grant that membership is important. But I don't believe the idea of membership with its formal process is clearcut enough in scripture to bind consciences. According to my pastor, I've been partaking of the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner this whole time, because I've yet to become a member. Again, I'm all for membership, but for me, membership is more of a subservient thing that helps to bring about obedience in other [more clear] commands in Scripture. It's kind of like picking a time to gather on Sundays. There's nothing in Scripture that says you have to pick any particular time, but it's wise to do so, in order to obey the command to actually gather, and do so in an orderly way. Anyway, what are y'alls thoughts? I did talk with my pastor about this. And he sees my points, but he seems to be sticking to his guns. He meant what he said.

[@jesuschristiskingofkingslo2023]

The problem with the example of parents preferences of ethnicity purposes among their children is that the children are now burdened by standards that should never be put on them in the first place and bc we are sinners, the amount of sin that surrounds this type of situation is horrendous and the consequences are severe. I can testify to my own personal set of circumstances as a result of this type of unbalanced cultural lineage sinful idolatry when my biological father decided it was acceptable to knock up a woman who wasn't his ethnicity, but since his parents would only be pleased to see him wed someone the same as them, now all of a sudden I am a mistake that needs to be forgotten, hidden, removed even. Thank God my mother didn't abort me like he wanted, the older sibling before me had a much worse end of it after he beat my mother into a miscarriage 😢 So the full blooded, full bred side of my family that I will probably never meet is all due to the fact that i am American, and he went on to wed and Father "his" own kind. It's a form of true discrimination, prejudice and sick twisted ideals that I detest.

[@Luiz__Silva]

If you believe I'm Christ, you'll be a child of God, adopted, through the blood of Jesus Christ. You'll be part of the family of God and have many more brothers and sisters, while still able to forgive your earthly family. With that in mind, a parent desiring one thing for their children has nothing to do with sinful actions like commiting adultery with different woman. My father was an adulterer and I was raised by a single mother. It had nothing to do with ethnicity, just plain sinful lust by man who throw their manhood away in exchange for a bit of pleasure. I have half brothers and sisters and today almost all of them have abandoned my father. But I will not. I will honor my father despite of what he has done because my real father in heaven taught me to do that. I will obey my savior and love even my enemies. With the help of the Lord Jesus you can do the same. And in the end, you will be able to judge rightly and don't let your personal trauma to twist your judgement.

[@johornbuckle5272]

@@Luiz__Silva your understanding of doctrine shines through your comment

[@SG4sdg]

As an immigrant with a different language, alphabet, ethics, norms, food, and the overall culture, it is not wrong for me to want my child marry a woman with our cultural background, and it is not sinful either. For it makes communications, understanding, and expectations easier. But as a Christian, I would rather have a Christian woman who knows and loves the Lord from any nation than a kin who doesn't know and loves the Lord. I would rather have the love of Christ Jesus my Lord in common with her than my desire of kinship.

[@Luiz__Silva]

@@SG4sdg Indeed. People underestimate the weight of culture in a relationship. Even Christians who reject egalitarian views sometimes believe in the lie that all individuals are the same inside. I'm married to somebody of similar age and background and even then the way we were raised comes up as a major issue. People can't imagine how is to have totally different values. As an immigrant in the US, I feel very accepted in the church. However, most of my brothers and sisters will never totally understand my background and I will never totally get theirs. It's very hard to find close friends. But that's okay. We still love one another in Christ. I

[@jetrpg22]

Maybe. Do you think he only beat your mother because of her skin color? That it stopped after he left? I strongly doubt that. Maybe. He seems like a very wicked person.

[@JamesLewis98]

Wait, Pastor Wilson is a British WCF subscriber? Guess he soured on the (illegal) American War of Independence. Well done!

[@proudhon100]

Didn't the Jews come to Christ in the days of the New Testament?

[@meincomf516]

That certainly is one theory. It puts Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 into a certain light if so, and it makes me wonder if those who say these people are actually edomites are correct.

[@JR-rs5qs]

I know enough to not be able to say Stephen Wolfe is wrong about at least some of the CREC.

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

I'm pretty sure I saw a verse about your Boomeranglehold on doctrine, first in 3 Chronicles, and echoed in 2 Ephesians.

[@austinh4709]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

[@Gnmercjr76]

Great

[@JR-rs5qs]

Hide the wordplay, Doug, it's virtue signaling, pure and simple.

[@jdlstoryteller]

As the person who (as a contractor of a contractor) cut the G3 Owen Strahan clip for social media that went viral and produced so many memes, I find all the intention questioning hilarious given that I'm a Presbyterian Postmil Theonomist. New CNs got so bent out of shape about not just why Owen would say such a thing, but why G3 would clip it and put it out given the current controversies. I was doing my job (to get views) well. That's why. lol

[@the32712]

"Reformed Baptists are now seriously considering historical Presbyterian political theology, babies and all" Me as an IFB/Reformed Baptist combo: "Nuh uhh, my wife and I are definitely not doing that. Definitely not! Not one bit!" >.>

[@clarkemcclymont2879]

Listening to Doug is as confusing as a sermon made of riddles; sorry but just too hard to follow.

[@seraf9143]

The transcript of this fast speech is published on his website, where you can slowly read it. It will make it easier to follow.

[@charlene5960]

I thought it was just me…

[@annakimborahpa]

The Case of Douglas Owen and the Memorials | Doug Wilson 22:56 - 23:23: "For myself, as one who wrote the initial drafts of these proposed memorials from Knox, I affirm the visible/invisible church distinction, I affirm the imputation of the obedience of Christ (both active and passive), I subscribe to the Westminster (the original British version), and am an Orthodox Westminsterian. I have written a commentary on the Westminster - Westminster Systematics - if Stephen [Wolf] would like to check my work. In addition, in an attempt to prove that I am a totally out of control fanboy, I set the Westminster Confession into verse." Response: Wow, Pastor Wilson, you've convinced me. This can only mean one thing: That the Knox Presbytery On Anti-Semitism of Dec. 1, 2022, of which you "wrote the initial drafts of these proposed memorials" MUST be interpreted according to original British version of the Westminster Confession. Would that be "The original text of 1646, from the manuscript of Cornelius Burges, Assessor to the Westminster Assembly, with the Assembly’s proof texts, as published in the modern critical edition of 1937 by S. W. Carruthers"? [Quoting from the Free Presyterian Church of North America website fpcna org /beliefs/wcf/] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1546-53: "God's plan for converting them is for them to see Gentile nations under the blessing of Christ's lordship, thus leading them to long for the same." Response: 1. Then when Jews are seeing "Gentile nations under the blessing of Christ's lordship," would that be them observing the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC) which "allows member churches to hold to any of the following historic confessions" [quoting the Wikipedia CREC article] including the 1647 Westminster Confession of Faith and the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith? 2. Doesn't this Westminster Confession of Faith include the following in its Chapter 25, Article 6: "There is no other head of the Church, but the Lord Jesus Christ; nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God"? And doesn't this London Baptist Confession of Faith in its Chapter 26, Article 4 complete the former's wording by adding "The Lord will destroy him with the brightness of his coming" (alluding to 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9)? [From the Founders org website /library/1689-confessions/chapter-the church/] 3. Therefore, just as Pastor Wilson says at 20:05-10, "The place of the Jews in our theology is to be filed under eschatology and prophetic fulfillment," wouldn't that also include the end times destruction of the Papal Roman Antichrist by Jesus Christ at His Second Coming? 4. St. Paul in Romans 11:15 (ESV) writes: "For if their [the Jews] rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their [the Jews] acceptance mean but life from the dead?" Does this mean that the corporate Jewish acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Messiah will usher in His Coming, the end of the world and the resurrection from the dead? 5. If so, what might be preventing the Jews from clearly seeing Jesus Christ's Lordship among the Gentiles? Could that be some counterfeit form of Christianity standing in the way of CREC by deceiving the nations with its presumed (A) apostolic succession, (B) ecclesial hierarchy of bishops, priests and deacons, (C) its seven sacraments, (D) its sacrificial worship of Jesus Christ upon the altar under the appearance of bread and wine according to the order of Melchizedek, (E) its veneration of saints and angels to include their images and relics, (F) its heightened devotion to Mary, the mother of Jesus, (G) its recommendation of poverty, chastity and obedience for the greater service of the Lord and His Church, and in particular (H) that imposter Catholic Bishop of Rome who dares claim to be the successor of St. Peter who, when first introduced to Jesus by his brother Andrew in John 1:42 (ESV), was told “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which is translated as Peter)", Cephas being the transliteration of Kephas, the Aramaic word for 'rock'? Who says that this name change meant a change of destiny for Simon, similar to those God had previously ordained for Abram-Abraham (our father in faith), Sarai-Sarah (the mother of a multitude) and Jacob-Israel (the father of the Jewish nation)? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Epilogue: According to the website for The Church of Scotland (founded by John Knox in the 16th century) on the page Westminster confession of faith: "The Westminster Confession of 1647 superseded but did not cancel out the original Scots Confession of 1560, drawn up by six "Johns": Knox, Willock, Winram, Spottiswoode, Row, and Douglas in supposedly six days, which was accepted by Presbyterians and Episcopalians alike. The full Confession of Faith was agreed upon by the Assembly of Divines at Westminster and examined and approved in 1647 by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and ratified by Acts of Parliament in 1649 and 1690." [From church of scotland org uk /about-us/our-faith/ For almost three and a half centuries the Westminster Confession of Faith was left unchanged. Then in 1986 the Church of Scotland, the mother church of Presbyterianism, issued the following: V. Declaratory Act Anent The Westminster Confession of Faith Edinburgh, 21st May 1986, Session 6. The General Assembly declare as follows:- 1. This Church no longer affirms the following contents of the Westminster Confession of Faith: Chap. 22, Section 7 "Popish monastical vows of perpetual single life, professed poverty and regular obedience are so far from being degrees of higher perfection, that they are superstitious and sinful snares in which no Christian may entangle himself." Chap. 24, Section 3 "… such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with Infidels, Papists or other idolators." Chap. 25, Section 6 "He (the Pope of Rome) is Antichrist, that Man of Sin and Son of Perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God." Chap. 29, Section 2 "… so that the Popish Sacrifice of the Mass (as they call it) is most abominably injurious to Christ's one only Sacrifice, the alone Propitiation for all the sins of the Elect." 2. THIS CHURCH THEREFORE DISSOCIATES ITSELF FROM THE ABOVE STATEMENTS AND DOES NOT REQUIRE ITS OFFICE-BEARERS TO BELIEVE THEM. [Ibid]

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

8:47 You're secretly unpopular?

[@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev]

"Douglas Wilson is a Boomer." -First Hesitations 19:50

[@olerain]

Good ole dougie 😂😂😂😂

[@nathanphillipsgo]

Hi Doug.

[@waakow]

Ok boomer

[@patrickc3419]

Wilson should really repent of his embrace of the wicked racist Robert Dabney. (And no, I’m not “woke”. I say this as a 1689 Baptist who is as conservative as it gets).

[@PatrickThreewit]

Doug Wilson, stay out of North Central Idaho. We, in this region, know that America was not founded on the Christian religion and is not a Christian country.

[@wes367]

God did not create the earth as a flat disc and unless the six-day-creationists repudiate this nonsense I will not listen to their teachings.

[@JustinHonaker]

I am a “six-day-creationist” and I agree that Flat Earthism is ridiculous. All six day creationists I know would say the same. So I’m not sure why you’re using FEism as a litmus test here. FEers probably make up less than one-tenth of one percent (and probably less than one ten-thousandth of one percent) of six day creationists. That’s kind of like saying that the reason you don’t root for the Pittsburgh Steelers is because of the 3 fans who wear David Little jerseys.

[@jesuschristiskingofkingslo2023]

It's never that simple, parents go overboard when children decide to go against "their wishes" if they just said, we will love whoever you love despite their ethnicity seems to be the most honest, fair, and loving Christ like parenting. Get over your prejudice and love ppl like God does, as there are His ppl in every nation.

[@Vampyrekai]

Nice tautology. Everyone knows that the Gospel is for Jews and gentiles. People from every tribe, tongues, people's and nations. No one of any significance is arguing otherwise. This is no different than the woke church race baiting based on a pretend threat.

[@Whatisthematterwithyoupeople]

Just shows u don’t know Christ.

[@Vampyrekai]

@@Whatisthematterwithyoupeople That's a bit overboard, brother. We should not cast possible brothers and sisters into outer darkness over a matter such as this. We can't know the OP's heart or their doctrines well enough to make that claim based on what they just said. Christ be with you ❤️

[@rhaughton]

You sure the fact that you are a boomer isn't found in the minor prophets ?? 😂😂