the changing portrayal of teacher-student romances in teen TV

[@elleliteracy]

damn I feel like I missed out by not knowing about Cruel Summer - I didn’t see anything about it in my research but it definitely seems to illustrate the turning tides! thanks to everyone that pointed it out 💖

[@hi_there1239]

the interviews with blake lee and olivia holt, the actors on the show, are also really interesting and expand on both the characters themselves and the way they communicated with each other and everyone else on set during filming. particularly their interviews about the ninth episode of the series focus on a lot of that!

[@trinaq]

I'd definitely recommend watching the show, and it does a great job of highlighting grooming, sex assault and gaslighting, and notably doesn't romanticise the student/teacher relationship.

[@Animefreak242]

You should definitely binge it. They handled this issue so well

[@soc3696]

It's because it's the big spoiler of the tv show, people are trying not to reveal it, we don't know it'll be baout that before the last 2 episodes maybe. ☺️

[@hi_there1239]

@@soc3696 i mean u find out he kidnapped her in ep 1, and by ep 4 when they talk on the hunting trip that’s kind of when it was like “oh okay they’re doing this plotline”. but ik that u don’t know the WHOLE story until ep 9, which is the really intense and awful part

[@daniellehanley6133]

Not to mention in the Pretty Little Liars book, Ezra goes to jail and that’s the end of his storyline… so the show writers knew this and decided to romanticize it anyway.

[@misssteak1290]

Wait i don't read/follow pll. Did aria actually end up with ezra in the book?

[@Alix27516]

@@misssteak1290 No, she doesn't. Aria ends up with Noel Kahn and Ezra gets fired and falls into the background after hooking up with a exchange student.

[@razkable]

sadly it happens in real life way more often than we want to admit but its not that glamorous or turns into anything besides a booty call usually...you do not fall in love have a relationship or you know get married later or continue doing it...it happens once you both move on

[@GardenfRedRoses777]

This single fact alone makes me wanna read the books now.

[@monaalona4744]

@@GardenfRedRoses777 You should I already finished the book finale a week ago, and in my opinion, it's WAY better than the show.

[@imani0nline]

The fact that Ezra ended up with Aria and not behind bars for the rest of his life still keeps me up at night, I really hope future show runners stop romanticizing this abuse and show proper consequences.

[@trinaq]

Likewise, the notion makes me sick to my stomach. Even Ezra's actor, Ian Harding, has stated that he is uncomfortable with how sexualised their relationship was. At one point, a company pulled the advertising because of Emily's same sex relationship, but at no qualms about an underage girl being romantically involved with her teacher!

[@cakepop918]

The books that they were based in had him behind bars? Like why did they change that?

[@w.k.astrolabe280]

In the books it was portrayed slightly better. *Spoilers* Ezra becomes more and more obsessed with Aria. She realizes he's trying to control her and she leaves, but I don't ever remember him getting any consequences. I would also like to add, not only did Erza know how old Aria was in the show, he had actually dated Alison before she disappeared (meaning she was like 13/14)

[@Jaimelikegem]

I know a teacher that ended up with one of his students. They got married after se turned 18

[@alanaogrady401]

truly like shoutout to liam green who was like, "oh so he abused his power and dated a minor?!"

[@TalysAlankil]

the "mature for their age" argument is so funny to me because it misses the point by a mile. i'm a teacher at the college level, so my students are all adults, and since i'm somewhat young some of them are even my age. i still wouldn't date them because it'd still be horribly unethical.

[@auntienyannyan]

right?? it’s the same as doctors not being able to treat their own family due to conflict of interest. by dating, you sacrifice being a good teacher.

[@ricegorm]

Exactly! People don't seem to realize that age/maturity isn't the only way an unhealthy power dynamic can form

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

Yeah, if the age of consent is met and neither party is mentally challenged, the problem isn't maturity. It's the other power dynamics at play. Also the "mature for their age" -excuse is also played by actual child diddlers.

[@sxatcychan1988]

Now that I think about it, the "mature for their age" justification is rather paradoxical. If said young individual is mature for their age, then they would've had the foresight to understand the consequences of an age-gap relationship as well as the capability to maintain appropriate boundaries. This means a young individual willing and able an age-gap relationship would have to be missing facets of a well developed maturity, yet they are still somehow "mature" for their age.

[@yamihere5569]

@@sxatcychan1988 it really depends because mature for your age can be from 3 years older mentally to 30. Besides emotional and mental maturity are different, and from what I've seen most folks in their early 20s are in the thick of learning boundaries and healthy relationships. I will also say as someone who have always been, truly, more mature for my age: it's caused by trauma. Intense trauma requires equally as intense copping mechanism and when you grew up with child like parents and everyone expecting much more from you due to your physical appearance and an higher iq (my case but it definitely differs between peoples), you are forced to grow up and mature quickly. I also always had an interest in accademia/critical thinking/philosophy/psychology and the like so it also gave me an advance, especially considering that peoples mostly challenged me intelectually, thus it was but self deffence to work hard in these domains. Then came the realization of what I've went through and trying to heal from it. I definitely spedran the maturing process thus far, but because it was caused by pain and suffering, resulting in mental illnesses, I am much weaker than someone with a strong support system would be. Weren't it for my love for accademia I would have also have about hardly any concept of healthy boundaries and psyvjological understanding of what a power dynamic implies, I mean I didn't until over a year ago when I seriously got into video essays. Dealing with peoples like me can be tricky as infantilizing us/treating us like most peoples our age feels so weird and kind of insulting due to how we most likely were all our lives. It's one day I have to be responsible for everyone, including adults way older than me but the next I am talked to in baby speech almost. But we also, more often than not, comes from trauma, the verry thing that made us strong also weakened us. So yes and no, it depend of the person and their personal development, regardless of how mature a child/teen may be, we still are kids and we don't nescerilly know everything. In the case of a teacher-student relationship or anything of the kind, the person whomst hold the most power should be fully aware of their predicament and be careful around the other one. That is the responsibility that comes with power in general, regardless of age or emotiona/mental maturity.(as you can see with celebrity/commoners relationships too)

[@HorrorDiva01]

The thing about Ezria is that in the books he goes to jail people realize what a creep he is and goes to jail. The problem is with Hollywood trying to normalize things that shouldn't.

[@bouchrafakher]

@loveutill theendoftimes aria just simply pursue relationships with other people (that's how i remeber it idk it's been too long since i read the books)

[@tinyblueunicorn7807]

Yeah I get that sometimes when making a series they have to alter details from the books for whatever reasons, but that's a pretty big (and negative) alteration, changing the whole framing of the narrative to depict it as harmless. Some things should be open to interpretation, but others need to be translated properly or they get lost in adaptation and end up sending dangerous messages.

[@Alix27516]

@loveutill theendoftimes He doesn't go to jail for long but Aria pursues a relationship with other people, mainly Noel, but reconnected with Ezra before he went after a exchange student named Klaudia and Aria realizes that he is trash.

[@preguicadetu]

now, i need to read the book

[@sweeety969]

The show was really atrocious with all the stuff it tried to normalise. Ezria for one. Alison and toxic friendships was another. Their parents also had messed up lives. Like they tried so hard to make Aria's dad sympathetic despite him ruining their family and burdening Aria with his affair and with keeping it a secret and abusing her emotionally by holding their family hostage and blackmailing her into keeping his secrets. Even the protagonists were bad though. Emily's girlfriend reveals she has PTSD and has been exhibiting signs of agoraphobia so what does Emily do? Hear a noise in the woods and abandon her in the middle of nowhere to go chase that random noise. Honestly nobody in that show was innocent but they tried to make it seem like 'oh it's ok because the person being hurt right now has hurt someone else' and just had this great long chain of people being the worst and people saw that and how it was presented to them and thought it was romantic.

[@JavitaGM]

I love how in Anne with an E they show a teacher-student relationship, because it was in the 1900 book it is based on, but all the time it feels disgusting, because the producers wanted to give that feeling, and how liberating is when Prissy get out and gets to act like a kid

[@coriander1521]

Yes! I was hoping someone would mention Anne with an E. The producers don’t film Prissy and Mr. Phillips’ relationship as healthy at all, and they portray it just as disgusting as it’s supposed to be.

[@honeybellebuzlucay5867]

It was disgusting and veryyy uncomfortable in the book, too!

[@Lenka18s]

It was portrayed as disgusting in a book too. I think he was fired because of that in the book. I find it sad that Lucy Maud Montgomery knew in 1908 that it is improper, yet many Hollywood CEOs in 2000s found it perfectly acceptable.

[@gracezaky1192]

@@Lenka18s yikes.

[@homosoftommorow]

Anne with an E is incredible

[@Shanspeare]

NOT THE LAW AND ORDER SOUND FOR PLL LMAOOO. I love Ezria slander. He deserved jail time

[@elleliteracy]

throw him in JAIL!!!

[@vermillion6805]

i read this as it happened

[@MissCaraMint]

It ain’t slander if it’s true.

[@katereagon4299]

I was groomed by a teacher when I was 15 and it was genuinely one of the most terrifying things I’ve gone through. The staff did nothing because there was no assault so I ended up leaving the school. It wasn’t until he did the same thing to a bunch of other students that they finally fired him.

[@bexthefairy3378]

that’s so awful and i’m so sorry you went through that. i hope you’ve been able to heal as much as possible since then and thank god he was finally fired

[@tylerf.145]

Holy shit I'm 15 now and that sounds so scary :( I'm sorry you had to go through that

[@superskittle4888]

There was a creepy PE coach in my middle school. (Luckily when I transfered there I was done with PE.) Girls got counted off for not dressing out in shorts (wasn't a rule and it never happened to boys.) He'd call them "flat-chested" and "bubble butt". No one did anything. One day he touched a 6th grader on her inner thigh and said, "How are you today?" Her parents complained, vice-principal acted very concerned, and then ended the convo with, "Let's all just keep this under our hats while it's investigated. " Parents went to the school board, he was suspended for like 3 months, came back for the last 6 weeks, then vanished out of the school district. Still don't know if anything concrete ever happened or if he just got shuffled to a new district."

[@aliceofei2813]

i’m so sorry that happened to you and that they didn’t help you, that is so awful. that is beyond terrifying, especially so young. x

[@Itchy__]

@@superskittle4888 ah that's awful to hear, there isn't only something very wrong with the teacher, but the school board and the people prosecuting the law

[@mariboechat11]

I think Cruel Summer is the one that does it best, the portrayal is actually very creepy and uncomfortable. I'd recommend it!

[@hi_there1239]

in the new gossip girl when max gets in a fight with a parent who cheated, runs away, and stays with a teacher, i was instantly like “i’ve seen this before and it was hard enough to watch once”

[@amorabeau]

Was coming down to the comments to say this!

[@eliseg0001]

Yes!! I think they did a great job of highlighting their age differences and not aging up Kate too much

[@paolabetancourt3365]

I was going to comment the same! Best portrayal of this type of relationship in Teen series... by a looong shot

[@HonorWillow]

Totally, it shows these encounters that in any other context and with good intents would be romantic, but it shows it for what it is as being insidious. He’s actually CALLED a pedo. It jumps between time so we see the effect on Kate as we see the grooming so we aren’t allowed to even consider for a moment that it is cute. And he shows moments even outside of the fact that he’s being like this with a teenager to show he’s got gross intentions like trying to keep her scrunchie, which sounds not that bad but it’s so bad creepy the way he holds it. The guy who plays Martin is a great actor. I think it’s that contrast that’s so important because grooming isn’t going to look evil on the surface (I mean to the child). You’re right it’s the best portrayal, at least I’ve seen

[@Okkkkkkk-ol5kz]

As a newer young teacher, I feel like I am sexualized a lot. I know my peers feel the same way. Comments like “I wish I had you as a teacher” or “ if you were my teacher I would’ve paid attention every day” or even “I wouldn’t mind attention in your class” … These comments are frequent and unwelcome and kind of gross. Stop sexualizing teachers.

[@keeptaiwanfree]

i’m a college student and one professor at my college kept getting sexualized. i saw so many comments by students EXPLICITLY stating what they wanted to do with him and it was so creepy and wrong 😭

[@TweetedTUMBLe]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, especially as America and specifically my state struggle with the so-called “teacher shortage”. A lot of young people are becoming emergency teachers now and the age gap between high school students and these teachers has shrunk, meaning the kids will naturally view their teachers more like peers and unfortunately that’s how most high school boys treat their female peers ://// With how things are right now, I can only see things getting worse, but please hang in there! Are there any protocols in place for when a student is behaving inappropriately towards you? Perhaps you and your fellow teachers could discuss this issue and bring it to the school boards attention?

[@sal7355]

yup! the sexualization of teachers also contributes to the idea that teacher student power dynamics are “okay” or “not as bad as *actual* assault” it tells people that teachers are inherently meant to be attractive to their students. it’s insane.

[@littlestsnowy8177]

Yeah “I wish I had u as my teacher” is no way inherently sexual from where i’m from because there are bombass teachers that have GREAT teaching methods. All students like them because they make learning fun and they’re generally a likeable teacher. So someone saying that doesn’t mean “I’m down bad for you” it just means that the students respect you. Which coming from Australia means a lot because kids don’t take well to many teachers. Sorry u have to deal with that shit tho 😢

[@aminaismyname4318]

​​@@littlestsnowy8177it not so much as the statement "I wish u were my teacher" itself being inherently sexual, but rather that the tone in which it can be said can imply a sexual innuendo (which is likely what OP experienced)

[@AmorJonatico1]

The worst part of PLL is that they had the perfect opportunity to redeem themselves with the Ezra reveal. When Aria finds out about the book that should have been it. They could have framed it as it really was, a grooming situation where a GROWN ASS MAN took advantage of a young girl not just to have a relationship with her but also to use her for research because he was obssesed with her missing friend. It could have been so good and no one would be bashing them after years like we are now.

[@leedraconis5793]

I NEVER GOT TO THIS PART IN THE SHOW WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK??

[@centigradz2centigradz289]

The audience thought that the guy who played Ezra was hot so they kept him. And the actresses who played the teens were over 20. And hollyweird is about predator behaviour. I'm sure the producers loved the storyline and kept it for their fun. But it's so worrying when in later in the season that Ezra targeted aria and had a relationship with Alison. Hollywood is gross.

[@tink268]

Not to mention that Aria had very cute age appropriate "suitors" and apparently none were a "good match" for her. I get the actor is hot but his character was deplorable!

[@r4.v3n]

@@centigradz2centigradz289 not really. Sasha Pieterse aka Alison was 12 when they shot the pilot and was a minor for most of the series, it's terrible

[@OneGaurdian]

@@tink268 At one point she was dating Jason, and that dude was way better looking than Ezra.

[@ChrisBrooks34]

Finally we're looking at these teachers as the predators that they are. Never Been Kissed I'm calling you out.

[@trinaq]

Indeed, it doesn't matter if Josie was actually 25, her teacher Sam still THOUGHT that she was an underage student, yet was attracted to her anyway. At one point, he even compliments her, and then adds, "Actually, I shouldn't say that because I'm your teacher."

[@paulae4033]

@@trinaq he admits to how wrong his feelings were but in retrospect it's still creepy he fell for her. He was in a relationship with someone and weren't they even living together?

[@yellobb3848]

THIS! My mom looked at me weird and said it was cute when I was weirded out about it

[@you_know_me8218]

Never heard about it 😂 So I think I should be glad?

[@readaholicgirl_5]

Vampire Academy (book series) has a mentor/student dynamic and as teen I ate that shit up, but I reread the series last year and I was uncomfortable with this dynamic. 👀 sorry I can't see this couple's forbidden relationship the same 🤷

[@uncertain_zee]

I really wanna mention you don't HAVE to be young to be groomed. It's easier when you're younger most of the time, but a lot of other differences other than age can make you vulnerable to it as well. Being above the legal age does not mean you aren't being groomed and does not make anyone immune to abuse. There's a shame to admitting that you've been abused at any age, but i think when you're older there's a specific shame that you "should've known better" specifically because you're older, and we need to stop treating people that way so they'll feel comfortable about confiding in others about it and hopefully realizing they need to leave the relationship.

[@amemelia]

True, people assume grooming js only concerning the age but its the idea of someone with a power imbalance encourages a relationship by bonding with a vulnerable individual. Groomed by a boss, groomed by your carer, groomed by family, etc its the idea about someone vulnerable that they prey on

[@cincocats320]

I had a good friend who became involved with a professor. She took his class in the fall, received what felt like lots of positive attention for her work. Once the class was over they began a relationship, which lasted for a few months. She was 21 and not technically his student so nothing actionable. While it was happening she couldn't see the ways he had manipulated her, but afterwards she felt a lot of shame and it messed her up for a long time.

[@daydreams6956]

perfectly said.

[@yesyes-om1po]

I think at a certain point, you just have to stop being gullible. People dislike the grooming of minors and young people because they are naive and don't know better. And it is usually predatory in nature. You can get groomed when you are older, but you have to be seriously underdeveloped mentally for that to happen, as an adult you have your own responsibilities and I think at some point it becomes your problem to solve.

[@arieslofi]

@@yesyes-om1po are you on christ no cap victim blaming right now? no one has to be "seriously under developed" to be groomed when they're older. we're talking college students here. a lot of them are still naive because their brain hasn't fully developed yet. they're people who are 17-21, generally speaking. hope you know by blaming victims over things that are beyond their control and calling them stupid indirectly, you're directly siding with the abusers 😙❤️

[@mnosib2146]

I also noticed that whenever it’s a gay student teacher relationship it’s always portrayed as predatory like degrassi and new gossip girl but when it’s a straight relationship it’s romanticised. But like you said it’s all changing now thank god and I hope gossip girl handles raf story well and doesn’t let him off with a slap on the wrist

[@spencerlively3049]

yes thank you i was disappointed there aren't more comments mentioning this. it honestly terrifies me how insidious that false association is and how it's used to justify laws against gay people for just existing even though it's virtually always straight people perpetrating this predator behavior.

[@darkraven2116]

I just finished watching Cruel Summer which made me reflect on how gross irl student-teacher relationships are. The show's casting was great in that the student actually looks like a high school student while the principal looks quite a bit older than her. It also frames all the "romantic" rhetoric he uses on her as manipulative and creepy. It also deals with something that isn't talked about often: how the student doesn't necessarily see themselves as a victim at first. Which results in a lot of guilt and confusion down the road. I think it's definitely the best realistic take on these kinds of relationships.

[@hi_there1239]

after episode 9 aired there were a ton of interviews with both of the actors that talk about how mindful they were of the portrayal and how difficult it was to get into their respective characters’ mindsets, they’re really interesting and prove how much work went in to taking the topic seriously

[@rachelkoch109]

I like how in Happy Death Day, they framed the college professor who was having an affair with his student as a villain, and how the student was able to realize on her own how toxic the relationship was and cut him out of her life by ending the affair and dropping his class.

[@horizonpenblade1288]

I feel like legally blonde had a similar take which was very nice.

[@jaquelinecosta3121]

This 'trope' is only allowed on TV because the actors playing teenagers DO NOT look like teenagers, so the viewers associate the characters more with the actor's age rather than the actual character's age. "It's okay because they basically look 18" when in reality they're supposed to be 14-16. If media companies started to cast actual teenage actors or at least actors that look that young, this 'relationships' would be unacceptable and you would see more people complaining. Do you think Disney and Nickelodeon would get away with this? Probably not. But Netflix does despite these shows being targeted to teens and young adults, I even if a show was solely targeted to young adults (18-25) would still not be okay. They first start by s3xualising these characters that are supposed to be in high school and then they show this 'trope' so viewers get used to the characters being in situations that they're not supposed to. Start casting better for teenage roles and you'll see this trope disappear...

[@selty]

I agree with you but also Don’t forget Nickelodeon’s Dan Schneider and all the shit he got on his shows under the radar still exists

[@tammyariel2982]

Maybe not teacher student relationships (there probably are some if we really look) but they have little girls have crushes on grown men and grown men who are weirdly close with younger female characters on both channels

[@JB_Kuku]

I don't think the casting is the problem. A lot of those actors DO look their age. The actors are often only a couple years older than the age they're portraying. You gotta remember that students vary in how they look. I've literally taught ELEMENTARY age kids that look like grown adults at the age of 12. And then there's some grown adults that look really young. I was mistaken for a teen throughout most of my 20s. In my 30s now and still had someone mistake me for a kid recently. So age is not the issue. Other ppl will argue that the characters "act mature" but that's not an excuse either. Yeah some kids act mature. That doesn't mean they are. They're still kids. It's the MINDSET of ppl that has to change. The fact that so many ppl not only write these relationships, but then audiences still root for them and defend them and make excuses for them - that shows u there's a problem. Casting won't change that bc how a person looks shouldn't be a factor anyway in deciding whether a relationship like that is ok. Regardless of how a student looks or acts, it's never ok. So that just doesn't matter. And besides, like I said, many of the examples given here, I do think they looked their age actually. So that's all a moot point.

[@rosiehonk3734]

@@tammyariel2982 Not defending p3dophilia, but little girls have crushes on adult men all the time. That’s one way they get groomed after all. It’s normal for kids to have crushes on adults. It’s not normal for adults to have crushes on kids, or be romantically involved with them. Disney shows are aimed at kids, therefore it probably feels relatable to the kids to see the characters in the same situation. I kinda doubt adults are watching Disney channel to get off to an 11 year-old having a crush on someone there age. I guess the TV shows could handle the situation better? Like tell the characters(and viewer) that being in a relationship with an adult is bad? Idk, why do you think it shouldn’t be portrayed? I’m genuinely curious! Like, this isn’t malicious or anything. Edit: Wrong person sorry Princess! I meant Tammy

[@tammyariel2982]

@@rosiehonk3734 yeah I understand that kids often have crushes on adults. I did too when I was younger. I think it shouldn't be portrayed in kids shows because it gives kids the impression that these types of relationships are okay. Imagine if a child was being groomed and saw a kid having a crush on an adult on TV. They could think it's okay to like the groomer back. I don't think that any creeps are getting off watching it. I just don't think its entirely safe. There are more than enough relatable things to write about than kids wanting to being gushy and overly attached to an adult. Wanting to be married to daddy because mommy is and she is happy is a lot different than a young girl trying to get a grown man to like her. I'm one of those people that don't believe in an adult saying thats my little boyfriend, he or she is going to be a heartbreaker, or an adulting joking that a child has a crush on another adult or when people joke that a kid wants to steal their partner bexause the kid is just being friendly. It may be relatable but since people still often defend creeps in their family's and communities and jail sentences for their behavior are often short af if they ever are prosecuted, I don't think that any of this type of stuff should be normalized in any way. Especially if it's being directed at impressionable children.

[@lucasrodrigues9880]

In Lucy Hale's defense, she Said this year on a Interview with Demi Lovato that she now see's How wrong Ezria was and that It can influence people to get in similar toxic relationship and that's the reason why she is so mindful of the kind of roles she chooses to play now.

[@khadizaahmed8989]

I'm sorry but her 180° seems like a load of bs feels like she's only saying so due to the backlash Ezria has been getting recently not to mention the fact that she was more than old enough throughout the 7 seasons when she was on the show shows where her morals were

[@Isokatmydydecsf]

@@khadizaahmed8989 wether she thinks it or not, well yeah we can’t know. Now what matter is that even she doesn’t think so, the fact she said it, publicly, in an interview, shows that the student-teacher bs is really starting to get recognized as what it is. Minors are going to see that interview, so if it can help on making more people realize...

[@name-fv4du]

@@khadizaahmed8989 who cares if she means it, it's a step in the right direction

[@hezelia]

@@khadizaahmed8989 It was a show, a contract, it does not reflect on who she truly is. What about actors who play heinous villains? Those who act psychotic, aggressive, violent, murder tendency, r*pist, etc, does it mean all these actors are truly like that in real life? That they murder people behind the scenes?? Don’t confuse a persona on the tv screen with real life.

[@OneGaurdian]

I try not to judge the actors/actresses too harshly. They're probably always just happy to have the job, and get to make a living. It's a tough business to succeed in, after all. The writers and and people running the show are a different story.

[@kaitietheukulelelady5645]

I think casting actors and actresses that are younger to play high schoolers would help portray these relationships more accurately as bad. It doesn't seem as bad though when a 25 year old actress is flirting with her 27 year old teacher. No one at my highschool looked remotely as mature as the gossip girl cast for example

[@ahhhhhhhhhhah6215]

I personally think we should have as little minors in tv as possible, so I don't mind casting people in their 20s but stuff like the CW does not do it right. I really like how Sex Education casted their actors. Almost everyone is in their 20s but the way they style, and write all the characters, they actually feel like teenagers. They did not do a teacher/student relationship but it would automatically feels so creepy bc the teens look like teens and they actually have teachers that don't look the same age as the teens.

[@kaepiper]

right, movies n shows have screwed with my perception of fellow teens so bad the ppl i see at school look so young, the freshman look like babies to me now.. but then you cut to shows where a nearly 30 yr old is supposed to be playing a teen.. i always knew it was weird but i never realized how it actually had warped my mind

[@bicuriousdirtbikeboi2594]

I see your point but honestly having as few minors as possible le around creepy writers and producers is probably the best course of action

[@synthiandrakon]

Eh I feel like it's probably better the way it is. These shows are aimed at older teenagers and college students, they have a much heavier focus on sexual themes because that interests audiences that age and it indeed what people those ages are doing (some shows go too far into this). So if makes sense to cast adults when you intend to explore those themes

[@Relax-eo8ol]

I see where you’re coming from but thinking about making actual teenagers make out with full grown adults feels a little icky. I think putting young, inexperienced actors in that position could actually lead to irl grooming.

[@sagathestoryteller7920]

I will say, based on discussion about psychology with college friends of mine, it actually makes sense for other high school students to not see a student/teacher relationship being problematic. That's the entire point in it being problematic. A student cannot consent with their teacher because they don't understand the power imbalance between them. It's quite realistic for other students to think the relationship is "cool" or a "conquest". In the shows it should be up to adults to discuss the problems of the relationships, not the other teens. As a personal example, at my old job I tried to explain to three high school students why a 15 year old dating his 21 years camp counselor was grooming and they responded with confusion and "grooming only happens to little kids". I was flabbergasted at the time.

[@kaepiper]

as someone who’s 16 going on 17, 15 is still very much a kid. i’m shocked that so many people don’t get it but i also understand, we’re immature teenagers. i hope they thought deeply about what you told them

[@sagathestoryteller7920]

@@kaepiper In all honesty, I think I could have done better. I did do my best to explain it to them but the discussion had to be dropped because I don't think they believed me in the slightest. I think that's where part of the issue is, you can explain all day how it is an issue but until they do have the maturity to process it, it won't be believed Edit: also, the individual in question was not part of the discussion. I was with three 17 year olds who talking about it. It was in the break room at work

[@student8663]

My early teen-hood (13-15) was filled to the brim with lessons on cyber safety, grooming etc. Including one very disturbing but necessary play performed at the school by a small theatre company so at 16 it wasn’t as difficult to grasp that we weren’t really as old as we thought BUT each lesson did come as a new slap in the face, the idea that our youth and curiosity can be exploited

[@aurorechaton7604]

Also wanted to add that it's extremely common in any age group, even older more "mature" ones for men specifically to have difficulty getting their trauma recognized see because other men only see it as a conquest. Men are so used to being in power that they can't concieve that they are just as vulnerable to sexual manipulation. If a man is involved in a sexual act other men assume they enjoyed it and initiated it because their used to being the ones with complete control over those kinds of things. So especially when it comes to older women, who are a greater "prize" because of their power and experience, it can be hard seeking validation of that trauma when society and close friends can't see the power Imbalance wasn't in their favor. I believe she criticized the isolation in the video about A Teacher, but it's very real.

[@neo4r4]

@@kaepiper 16 going on 17 is also very much a kid tho

[@trinaq]

I liked how in "Cruel Summer", Kate and Martin's relationship was rightly framed as being predatory, with Kate believing that Martin truly loved her, and not realising the truth until her therapist pointed it out to her.

[@fernydyke]

i really recommend reading “my dark vanessa” by kate elizabeth russel. it’s about a woman who looks back on her “relationship” with her high school teacher and how she deals with it now. very sad but an important read imo! loved the video ❤️

[@RenaissanceRockerBoy]

I read it and I think it did an amazing job at how insanely creepy and disgusting it made the relationship feel, all the while making Vanessa an understandable character.

[@trinaq]

Me too, it makes it clear that Starnes was a predator, although Vanessa still keeps in contact with him, and is conflicted on whether or not she should go public with what happened to her after another one of his former students states that he sexually abused her.

[@fernydyke]

@@trinaq exactly. Russel makes it very clear from the start how predatory he was. He took preyed on an insecure girl and took advantage of her vulnerability, he manipulated her into thinking she got the power in the relationship when he was clearly the one who held power. It was also clear that while at first glance Vanessa was romanticizing their relationship, she actually was trying to protect herself from the trauma it caused her, we see her disassociating during her most traumatic moments with him. She did a fantastic job

[@fernydyke]

@@RenaissanceRockerBoy I think it’s also scary how every teenage girl goes through those moments of insecurity, of not feeling comfortable in her own skin and lonely, just like Vanessa did, and that it’s exactly that what groomers take advantage of.

[@emptycinema]

I've heard about that book

[@Shanspeare]

Editing is immaculate, research is immaculate, everything is so immaculate. Just the best video I’ve seen in a long long time !

[@j.a.ogrady7783]

Love your videos so much! You're so brilliantly intelligent and observant, good luck with whatever you're working on.

[@444.nyokabi]

I said so too! The research esp.. well done and neatly explained. My ADHD brain actually paid attention till the end

[@coralrose5754]

Omg it’s you!

[@kayadimaria]

Two of my faves!!!!

[@ShamrockCinema]

the first thing that comes to mind when talking about teacher/student relationships is legally blonde when professor Callahan comes onto Elle - and even as a very passing thing in the movie I feel that it was a very real portrayal of those kinds of relationships (because Elle thinks about quitting law school, as she thinks that the only reason she got to the position she was in was because of her body, not her mind)

[@pheonixrises11]

I really felt her frustration, too! It seemed so humiliating to be viewed like that

[@keeptaiwanfree]

yes that was a very good portrayal of it! it felt very realistic

[@myragroenewegen5426]

I have no love whatever for this character or story, but it's attempt to bring real harassment into a movie that treats even murder as a punchline officially drives me over the edge. The plot tries to deal in real issues of female empowerment in law school, but is far more determined to build a world that glorifies the most over-the-top dumb blond character it can contrive. No matter what the movie thinks it's saying, it's deeply disturbing that in a universe where we have a prototypical dumb blond perpetually advertising her sexualized self, we get a plot twist that puts her in way-too-real situation like this. She's the exaggerated perfect victim here, so movie's entire set-up gives the abuser's role make a little too much logical, understandable sense even as it twists out another implausible victory for her here. Some of that response is who I am. I'm constantly avoiding chick flicks because they tend to have absolutely terrifying things happen to people and by the end it's supposed to all be forgotten in the final romance kiss. they're always poorly constructed, but just real enough that whoever's life was most hurt, I end up feeling that they must not be okay, happy ending or otherwise.

[@IshtarNike]

​​@@myragroenewegen5426I think you need to watch it again. She's not the prototypical dumb blonde, she just LOOKS like it. The entire film is screaming "don't judge a book by its cover." She's shown to be smart and capable in both street smarts (a little) and book smarts (a lot) across the entire narrative in both large and small ways. She's also dressed femininely but rarely if ever actually flaunting her sexuality or sexiness. By dint of being a hyperfeminine character her outfits do appear more "sexually appealing" when contrasted with others, but almost none of them are actually "sexy" clothes. It's not an amazing feminist masterpiece but you're bringing your own prejudices to the film if that's what you took away from it. You sound like her boyfriend who literally dated her for years but still assumed she was too dumb to get into Harvard when he himself had to rely on nepotism and she got in on her own. The point of the film is that you can be a girly girl and still be a serious person. For all its flaws I think that message shines through very clearly and it does little if anything to perpetuate the stereotype of dumb blondes and hypersexualised women.

[@hunterlawrence3573]

@@myragroenewegen5426 Did we watch the same movie? Legally Blonde is an about a young woman who is unfairly stereotyped as a "dumb blonde" when in reality she proves herself to be very intelligent, hard working and capable. Some of the things that happen in the movie are a little silly, but that's more the result of it being a comedy than Elle's actual character. She doesn't "advertise her sexual self". The only seen she does wear something really revealing is the costume party scene, and the point of that scene is that she was dressed like a rabbit, not that her costume was sexy. If you look at the plot, she worked really hard to get into Harvard Law. Then after she realizes that nothing she does will make her good enough in the eyes of her ex, she works really hard and excels in her studies. In the musical she has her new (age appropriate) love interest helping her study, but in the movie she's even more independent because she does it all on her own. Her hard work appears to culminate in her being chosen for the internship. Only for that to be crushed when her professor tries to kiss her, and she realizes she was only picked for looks, not her mind. By the end she manages to win the case without her creepy professor, and she does it without giving up her femininity. The point of the movie is just because she's blonde and has girly interests, doesn't mean she has to be a stereotypical dumb California girl, reduced to just her looks. It may not be the most in-depth film about what this kind of relationship can do to a student's life, but it's certainly not about a "prototypical dumb blond".

[@bluebook27]

I did a rewatch of PPL recently and Ezra made me so uncomfortable and sad for Aria - season 1 had so much weird creepy shit about how important the secret was cause it’s ILLEGAL, but then we find out he knew who she was all along and made out with her in the bar that day knowing she was like 15/16??? no way.

[@anitachandra2030]

You mean PLL

[@jalapeno1119]

I was in highschool when PLL was first airing. I hate to admit it, but I LOVED Ezaria. I could forgive the teacher power dynamic because it was tRu3 lOvE. But when it was revealed that he knew she was underage the whole time and was tricking her to write a book, that's when I drew the line.

[@IsaRican810]

@@jalapeno1119 That’s precisely the problem. I also thought I could handle a relationship with a grown man when I was 16-17 because I was young and naive. That’s why it’s harmful when media aimed at teenage girls reinforces this idea that student-teacher relationships are cute, normal, or desirable instead of predatory abuse of power.

[@mslizzieforbes]

Ya know what’s worse? That he hooked up with Allison almost two years earlier. When she was like 13-14…

[@tamialeslie7187]

Ew why isn’t he in hell

[@ingusch3783]

As a young female teacher: THANK YOU. I myself have been approached by predatory teachers (yes, plural. There were like 2 or 3 teachers at my school with a *reputation *....) when I was ca. 17-19. I know of girls both in my year as well as upper- and lowerclassmen who have started 'relationships' with these men. Nothing about it is romantic or sexy or okay. Teachers are supposed to help their students develop the skills they need to succeed in life, AND we're supposed to also PROTECT them if need be. Just the idea of misusing that role and power that comes with it makes me infinitely sick.

[@kalijohnston561]

I know it wasn't a super big show (rip) but I think HBO's genera+ion had a really valuable take on the teacher-student dynamic with sam and chester. At first I was very afraid at the direction it was going, especially since it could have fed into the "predatory gay" trope, but in the end it was handled very well and probably the most decisive renouncing of that type of relationship that I've ever seen on TV

[@abrilri4633]

Yeees! I really liked how it was handled in this show, it's the way it should be

[@blkbarbie2671]

is it a good show ?

[@mirayounn]

yes! my thoughts exactly

[@itspancake6713]

I came to the comments looking for someone to mention this. I loved it so much

[@EmilyHernandez-jt4cs]

@@blkbarbie2671 yess

[@dominiquechaplin5047]

So true! I’m a younger teacher and closer in age to my students than my coworkers, so I’m very cautious with how I interact with students. But what gets me SO mad is when I date and tell guys about my profession, I’ve heard numerous times “man I’m sure you’re tired of those boys flirting with you” or “if I was your student I would be flirting with you”. Like seriously, disgusting. It’s a fantasy that needs to just stop. They are minors!!!

[@jalapeno1119]

I remember watching an episode of Degrassi on KZbin where Tristan gets with a teacher and Maya tries to talk him out of it. Everyone in the comments was like "Maya is so annoying! She should mind her own business!" I was so baffled that people were too easily annoyed by a teenager girl to recognize she was actually in the right.

[@Melanie-jy2nw]

Yeah, that wasn’t great. Sometimes looking at older comment sections of older shows and seeing the opinions there make me question a few things.

[@misssteak1290]

Omg this. Especially since tristan and yates' storyline was MEANT to be portrayed in a negative light

[@tinyblueunicorn7807]

But how DARE she save her friend from a predator?!! Seriously though, the "relationship" obviously wasn't Tristan's fault because he was the victim in that situation, but he's just generally an annoying, petty little bitch and a pretty bad friend and boyfriend. I feel like the storyline was meant to make him more sympathetic, but he still feels very one-dimensional.

[@misssteak1290]

@@tinyblueunicorn7807 tristan is my least favorite character, but why did you think he was "one-dimensional" in this storyline?

[@tinyblueunicorn7807]

@@misssteak1290 Not one-dimensional in this particular storyline, just in general. He was never the most well-developed or likeable character and the story arcs he got were done better with others so he just felt kinda redundant as a character. Even after everything he's been through, it doesn't feel like he's changed or matured or shown much growth. He's still annoying and he treated Maya and Miles like crap when they did nothing wrong.

[@HexleysCauldron]

So the CW’s Nancy Drew also dabbled with this subject with one of the main characters being in a relationship with an older man and they actually handled it decently, especially the aftermath as they have the younger character realize how the secret relationship messed their view of romantic relationships in general.

[@HorrorDiva01]

I love the new Nancy Drew, I hate it doesn't get as much recognition as Riverdald.

[@FarhanaK]

Wait I've seen Nancy Drew, which character are you talking about?

[@stellanavigatio2429]

@@FarhanaK I think they’re talking about George

[@phuongdao928]

@@FarhanaK I think it was George and Ryan Hudson

[@FarhanaK]

@@phuongdao928 oh god yeah! S1! I completely forgot about them since George and Nick happened

[@Birdfreak2010]

An interesting pattern I just noticed is that when the victim is a girl, it is more often depicted as “romantic”, but when the victim is a boy it is more often depicted as damaging.

[@JosephFlores-yn4yi]

Not necessarily

[@Mizushimeee]

No its not, riverdale sexualized it

[@mirayounn]

i would like to add that, it's really dangerous how much these relationships are romanticized with the affect it has on young girls. at like age 10, i watched pll with my sister and since i was young and the show pushed so much for the relationship between ezra and aria, i rooted for them so much and it REALLY influenced my views (and SO many teenage girls' views) of not only studuent-teacher relationships but also other minor-adult relationships, for several years. the writing made out her parents to be seen as villainous for being disapproving of their "forbidden romance" that i really thought it was real love being shown between the two. i've rewatched a couple times since and i feel so much disgust and discomfort at it, it's crazy to me to think i used to think otherwise

[@helen4876]

Omg yes! I had a friend in the fourth or fifth grade who had a crush on our teacher and she justified it by saying it was ok since whoever was in her young adult books did that.. gross

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

Oh wow, I'd never thought about this before. I remember when Ross dated his student on friends and even though she was in her twenties it still weirded me out. Don't get me started on the high school ones. No bueno. Great job on this!

[@nacienunbarco]

Remember that the Friends protagonists are supposed to be in their twenties-early thirties canonically. XD Even thought some of them look 40+.

[@HorrorDiva01]

@@nacienunbarco at that time Ross was a bit over 30.

[@HorrorDiva01]

Same, and u can clearly see that they were on different mindsets like generation wise, when she starts to throw water balloons at him lol, she was still a kid.

[@idek7438]

I'm sorry but how is that weird? They are both adults

[@kerdunne3422]

@@idek7438 because of the power dynamic, I never watched friends so I don’t know if Ross was her teacher but either way it’s wrong. Even if Ross wasn’t that girls teacher he still holds power by being a teacher in an institution so he already holds influence and connection. The girl even if she’s in her 20’s is a student and has no such protection her future is in the hands of her superiors that’s why it’s wrong.

[@lansten9857]

I will say, it's kinda telling that a majority of the times that a teacher-student relationship is portrayed as predatory, it's a relationship between two men. Obviously it is predatory, but the male-male version of relationships seem to always be demonized as predatory, while the male-female ones tend to be romanticized.

[@lavenderbxx]

I will fully say I've never seen any of these shows but it truly disturbs me how show creators love to make this dynamic a thing? Like can we not have characters with healthy relationships 😭

[@nacienunbarco]

As a writer I can answer this! Stories need conflict and healthy relationships are perceived as boring by the editors and most of the market.

[@selty]

Considering those writers and show runners are in their late 20s+ makes the implications very concerning

[@mirusama7045]

@@nacienunbarco only shows that they are poor writers. A good writer could have a conflict coming from external place or from character's insecurities and a healthy relationship would be a support they need. After all, being in a healthy relationship doesn't solve all the problems

[@sleepysera]

@@selty I don't think there are any implications. They simply remember their own school years 🤷‍♀️ When I was a student, at least 90% of the female students in my year had a crush on a teacher at some point. I think that's pretty normal tbh, puberty happens, the guys are a few years behind in that development, students from higher grades aren't something you frequently encounter, but there's this physically attractive young man you see everyday aka one of your teachers. It works the same way as a celebrity crush (in that most people have some awareness that it's something unattainable, but that doesn't stop them from dreaming about it in a romanticized way) but usually fizzles out in due time as you get into proper normal teen relationships. That is, as long as the teacher isn't a predator that would make or accept advances of that kind.

[@Staticjokes]

Something little talked about with Ezra & Aria is that Ezra had a previous relationship with Alison. Key word - previous. Meaning Alison was EVEN YOUNGER than Aria when her & Ezra first met.

[@Erika-ox3tq]

they always make the predator a good looking actor in their 20s and 30s in order to justify and romanticize their inappropriate relationships with students. bc if the actor was old and ugly everyone would see it for what it is predatory behavior

[@Moxiegirlsophie]

Ever since I was young the student-teacher romances always made me sick.

[@helen4876]

Yea, it’s just gross.. when I was in 4th grade, my friend had a crush on our teacher and I said that was gross and she said back “in all the TV shows the teacher and student get married, so it’s okay!” Looking back on it, it’s disgusting how this behavior is normalized. I’m so glad newer shows are bringing light on how nasty they are.

[@truelyme0]

I mean like WHO like those type of romance anyway... I mean look all the teachers they're too old and we can't even have a proper connection because generation gap

[@lifebyjo3999]

Your analysis of A Teacher was right on the nose. I haven’t seen it but I realized whenever there is an abuse/grooming that involves young men it’s always belittled and sometimes even comedic. It’s sooooo excruciating 😖

[@hi_there1239]

cruel summer was probably the first time i’ve seen a teen show do a properly disturbing portrayal, the lack of romanticization and the fantastic performances from olivia holt and blake lee made it really hard to watch (meant as a compliment). also the relationship is never sexualized (there’s maybe one kiss between the characters onscreen to establish where the relationship is after a time skip) which also helps prevent glamorization.

[@tumblrqueen8143]

I’m shocked the gg reboot writers put in the student teacher story line after seeing how much hate pll got for it

[@emankhurram]

But they changed it to be preditory

[@corneliastreets]

it got a lot of backlash the minute it aired, but it seems like the writers were always going for showing how predatory rafa was. initially it seems like max was "in control" because he was the one pursuing him, but watching it back he was playing hard to get knowing max viewed him as a conquest. once max was incredibly vulnerable, he struck. when their relationship begins, it's immediately made evident that rafa has been grooming max and max realises how much of a predator rafa really is.

[@andreaf8404]

@@corneliastreets i liked how they handled it tbh

[@TiredofDrama123]

@@andreaf8404 me too and I think the best part is that they mentioned at some point that Max is 18 (so technically legal), but it's still wrong and he's still a child

[@andreaf8404]

@@TiredofDrama123 exactly!

[@becka7644]

There is a Mexican show called "Control Z" in which they have a student not only dating but also living with her teacher (and it's never trully clear how old is the student since everyone is 16-17 which would make the relationship ilegal, but when everyone finds out, nothing happens to the teacher so??). And in the second season (bit of a spoiler) the student goes to extremes to keep the relationship alive, which is creepy and unhealthy

[@madisoncohen7490]

Yes I love that show! But I hated how they portrayed that relationship! I keep hoping the teacher would face jail time but it never happened :(

[@EmilyHernandez-jt4cs]

Even if they were older like in college it’s still wrong

[@isabautista00]

I mean the show is about injustice, the dude that hacked everyone faced no legal trouble so it is the point of the series to show how people can get away with stuff

[@andreaf8404]

@@isabautista00 yeah but the hacker was always portrayed in a bad light and the teacher was never called out for having an inappropriate relationship with her student

[@mcchilde2903]

Oh wow I knew it was an older person but I didn't know it was a teacher

[@Melanie-jy2nw]

I’m glad the gossip girls reboot made it a slap in the face to previous teen shows who showed it as romantic instead of predatory. At first, Max looks to be the one in control but it soon becomes obvious that Rafa was waiting for him to be vulnerable to begin a relationship with him where there was a clear power dynamic. The minute he did, no longer was he portrayed as a good guy but a predator who temporarily blinded both Max and a portion of the audience. I remember how shocked some of them were that he changed personalities so quickly even though the red flags that he was a predator were all there beforehand. It was a good lesson in my opinion for those more vulnerable to this kind of manipulation and no one gets hurt as they just experience it through television.

[@moemunneymoe]

I remember when I was a senior in HS. This conversation came up and my teacher said that he hates the media portraying it in a positive light. He told us all how absolutely disgusting it is and that if a teacher, regardless of gender, tried to flirt with us or get romantic to run. He absolutely detested the teacher in the room across the hall, most of the school hated that guy. Well I found out they all hate him because a few years prior he married a student 6 months after she graduated. He was in his mid 30s and she was 18. I'm not sure if they are still married but I hope she is ok mentally and physically.

[@DD-gl3gx]

I will always love Boy Meets World for its portrayal of the professor that tries to get with Topanga. They make it clear that he’s being a horrible person and I love that

[@rachelkoch109]

I remember in middle school I read a Seventeen magazine article that said student-teacher relationships were never okay, not even in fiction...unless it was Aria and Ezra. You almost had it, buddy.

[@lilchaos9212]

One thing I will say is that later on the show Riverdale actually went back on the whole 'Ms Grundy' issue and tried to rectify it by having Archie, as an adult, get reminded of Ms Grundy and go through a whole ordeal because he was then mentally mature enough to realise that she had been grooming him and was a whole-ass adult predator who technically raped him. There's a whole scene where he gets visibly upset and disturbed seeing Betty wearing glasses that remind him of Ms. Grundy and they have a whole talk about how he was a child and how it wasn't his fault and Betty comforts him about his trauma. I will give the show props for that because they could've ignored it entirely, but them having that subplot in the first place was still disgusting.

[@sgteelinger]

As someone who has been in a leadership/mentor position for teenagers as a camp counselor, I can definitively confirm that it would be impossible to form this kind of relationship that doesn’t involve a conscious abuse of power. Even though there tends to be a way smaller age gap between campers/counselors (I had some who were only 1-2 years younger than me), all of your interactions are defined by the different roles you occupy - you can’t really have a situation where you interact as peers/equals because of the inherent nature of your relationship. If you were to engage in an inappropriate relationship, the person in the leadership position would definitely be aware of the power imbalance and would have knowingly made the decision to go forward regardless of it. They would have to purposefully take advantage of the kid’s inability to recognize this, because (say it with me) THERE IS NO WAY A RELATIONSHIP THAT STARTS OFF WITH AN IMBALANCE OF POWER CAN CONTINUE WITHOUT ONE. The fact that these relationships can be portrayed as otherwise is disgusting and poses actual danger to kids who don’t know how to recognize abuse yet.

[@jeanjacquesjarolzoua9946]

The problem is that, literaly all the teens in shows are played by adults and so everybody see it too be so cool and romatic, but if it was actual 14-17 years students, ohhh god...

[@antoooxrocks]

As a teacher myself, this kind of relationship is a mortal sin and every teacher that does it, should get the electric chair or something. It is seriously unacceptable.

[@Flatcetera]

As someone who teaches hs… how can anyone be attracted to teens when they’re past that phase themselves will forever be a mystery to me. Full offense to both parties.

[@itskimforkim-yi]

please talk about the weird obsession teen dramas/movies have with dating step siblings or people who share a sibling like I’m sorry but Bughead? Could not be me to wanna be with someone whose father my mum dated and had a kid with (Charles) that exists and is alive. Edit: I'm not saying this is something that is as wrong as teacher student relationships but I think it's definitely WEIRD like what is up with shows acting like it's fine or just promoting it as normal. UK shows like Sex education Otis and Ola at least acknowledge it as a ICKY AF situation

[@medealkemy]

_Elite has entered the chat_

[@alicid03]

Gossip girl has entered the chat

[@medealkemy]

@@alicid03 Good one 😂

[@pepperspray280]

*Degrassi new generation has entered the chat*

[@itskimforkim-yi]

Creasing🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I hope someone does a video on it cause its so weird man😫

[@SupaSweetKay]

In Shameless, Lip falls deeply in love w his Professor and then she cuts him off without a word, blaming him for the secret getting out, and essentially ruining his life. He goes to alcoholism because of it and gets kicked out of school… it was his last chance to really make it out of the slums and she took that away and broke his heart in the process. Super duper sad

[@leilacarvalho4404]

As a teacher, I've always found this trope so incredibly disturbing!!! I've watched all of the older series in this video and dropped every single one of them because of how uncomfortable they made me feel. Like, there are so many shows normalizing pedophilia and nobody says anything about it?? Thanks for the video, very relevant theme and I'd never seen anyone address it before👏

[@warriorlizard7246]

A BIG problem with the student-teacher relationships portrayed in shows is that they often lose their sense of reality BECAUSE the students are played by adults. It's easy to remove the context of student-teacher when what you're seeing is clearly people less than 5 years apart in age forming a relationship. Especially through the rose tinted lenses these relationships are often filmed with, if people saw a real 15-18 year old engaging with somebody that is anywhere from 5 to 10 years older than them, optimistically, it would be a lot more difficult to romanticise such things. The problem wouldn't be entirely removed, but it sure wouldn't be as glamorous. Obviously then the issue arises of having actors of that age engage with such behaviours to show them, which is a very dangerous thing to do, but perhaps a picture or the actors at the ages they're meant to be representing would give audiences an idea of what they've otherwise supported...

[@charischannah]

I remember being about sixteen and having a crush on a guy I knew who was seven years older than me. I'm pretty sure I was obvious enough that he noticed but he just treated me like a friend/acquaintance. Because that's the appropriate response in that situation. Teenagers sometimes get crushes on adults, and those adults have the responsibility to not take advantage of them.

[@dannimajig]

Dan from GG was also a victim when Serena manipulated him into sex in the finale of season 5! Cannot believe it was framed as consensual, and Serena is only villainized used in the sense of backstabbing Blair by doing so. Especially as Serena was always so wary of Chuck’s predatory ways but then ends up doing something so similar, yuck! Poor Dan!

[@Melanie-jy2nw]

I agree it was disgusting and it should not have been portrayed like that. However, I’m more mad at the fact that Dan was Gossip Girl. He stalked and harassed his victims, two of which were Serena and Blair, his girlfriends. The fact is he manipulated them constantly through this blog and that he dates these two while they are kept in the dark about this gives their relationships a whole new power dynamic. That it was forgiven so easily and Serena even agreeing to date him afterwards makes this so creepy. He should’ve been arrested for stalking and harassment or something not marry a rich heiress.

[@dannimajig]

@@Melanie-jy2nw I personally like many other GG watchers don’t think of Dan as GG as it was so unbelievable and the product of a rushed decision and definitely made no sense, along with the aftermath as you said!

[@Melanie-jy2nw]

@@dannimajig I can totally understand why you would! Unfortunately, I got into gossip girl in season 6 so the entire time i was aware who the writers were saying was Gossip Girl so everything he did came across as horrible and creepy. It definitely made no sense though because there were some moments he would’ve needed to do parcour just to accomplish his feats as Gossip Girl lol

[@Missmagazinebura]

Serena and Dan do not belong together. Serena belongs with Nate

[@dannimajig]

@@Missmagazinebura that’s fine with me as I ship Dan with Blair lol

[@milascave2]

The whole perception of adult-teen relationships has changed so. much. In the 1970s and early eighties, the age of consent laws were hardly taken seriously. Men and girls, women and boys, men and boys, women and girls, and so on. People just did not take it all that seriously. And, the student-teacher thing was real. I had a high school drama teacher who was well known to have affairs with his female students. And of course, all of that has completely changed. And this happened way before the me to movement.

[@sindelscat9336]

When I read the pretty little liar books the relationship between Aria and Ezra was written way better, she eventually realizes he's creepy and leaves, the person she went off with was Noel who was a way better character.

[@jojocircus9818]

i feel like i see a lot of defenses if the student isn’t in the teacher’s actual class but that doesn’t make it not unacceptable 👏🏻

[@bubblegumbxtch9544]

Riverdale romanticizes it but the parents get angry and it has a bad ending and it shows her as a predator. As a teen watching it I saw the relationship as gross and I know all of my friends did as well. They didn't explore how terrible it was and that it was grooming though.

[@kaylinjohnson1713]

The gossip girl story line gets thicker when you think back to these plot line connect the realization that gossip girl is Dan. He revealed that secret, got her fired and then went to the teacher’s house to sleep with her.

[@MJ-gm7km]

Dan wasn't originally going to be Gossip Girl. It was supposed to be Nate. So, some of Gossip Girl's actions were written without the writers relating it to Dan's true character. But because Dan was later chosen for the big reveal, all those things are reinterpreted in a way that contradicts Dan's characterization. That's the result of sloppy writing 😟. They should have made up their minds at the very start. I think Dan wasn't meant to be THAT much of a creep.

[@nekusakura6748]

@@MJ-gm7km Which is Ironic considering Penn Badgley's Major Role at the moment....

[@Sootielove]

People who try to justify relationships with age of consent laws, smaller age gaps, etc. seem to forget that a lot of the time that even relationships between adults well over their 30s are often restricted in the same way if one person is in a much more vulnerable position eg. boss/employee, lawyer/defendant, police officer/victim of a crime. Teacher/student relationships are creepy and awful often because it targets young adults and children, but it's made even creepier because of how much power teachers have over students. This is why I can't get into the way these shows try to "soften the blow" by casting older actors to play the students. It'd still be creepy even if the characters were the actors' ages.

[@Sootielove]

Also the double standard of female teacher/male student relationships somehow being more okay is awful. Men and boys can be just as vulnerable and it's just as inappropriate and creepy

[@JosephFlores-yn4yi]

Legal ≠ Morally Good Too

[@Bolts_Films]

as a 21 year old who's still in college and has watched a lot of fucked up films because im a filmmaker, I decided to stop after episode two of a teacher because I found the style to be just dragging along the show rather than driving it forwards. great to know its based on a film, ill definitely check it out and maybe give the show a decent shot

[@basementdwellercosplay]

My dad once told me about a professor he had that everyone hated because the Prof revealed his wife was a former student and she was in her 20s while he was 50 or 60. And apparently she never finished her degree after they got married... Yeah. Everyone, women and men, found him creepy so at least in real life most people don't accept this

[@itsbasicboi]

Unrelated but your editing is just WOWWW

[@elleliteracy]

thank you!!

[@patrip.g6435]

Watching A Teacher made me so uncomfortable I couldn’t even finish it

[@MadisonHarlow]

That’s bc they showed how awful it truly is. It did the job correctly. It’s an important but difficult thing to watch.

[@Ejazzz]

As a future educator I constantly hate this trope and I like when shows actually show it as bad and predatory…I hate jokes people make about it towards me cause… just no. What the hell.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

I’m still wondering how this became a thing. Edit: I'm talking about TV. When did this become a thing on TV. Where is the origin of this cliche.

[@nacienunbarco]

Teachers trying to date students has always been a thing, the problem here is the romanticization of this trope in media because they’re communicating that dating and eventually marrying your teacher is ok.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

@@nacienunbarco bleh. Gross. Not you but that. What was first example of it?

[@KassandraQuiseng]

I don’t know when this first became a thing in movies/tv, but this has happened in real life too. My mom was born in 1960 and she said that when she was in high school one of her classmates married one of their teachers right after graduation. Apparently it wasn’t even a big deal at the time :/ ugh just gross

[@EmilyHernandez-jt4cs]

@@KassandraQuiseng like he graded your work, your still a child basically in his eyes

[@chavaspada]

Hollywood people see this as normal. Hollywood is filled with abusers of all kinds.

[@danibowen7982]

I feel like someone just took away a blindfold from my eyes by watching and reading the comments. Gotta be honest, When I was 14 I had this English teacher who was so mysterious (he looked like in his 20's but he didn't want to reveal his age WEIRD) and full of himself, he used to talk a lot to students even out of class. I mean, nothing wrong until there BUT something else happened that confused me a lot. One day, I was doing my thing getting ready for class and suddenly this teacher comes up to greet me and adds: "You have a pretty smile today" I said "thanks" but it felt weird because it came from him and after that, he kept trying to make a conversation as if we were really close friends. I don't remember what happened straight after this but I recall one Friday he asked for me before lunch to tell me he wanted to talk to me at the end of school in a secret place (inside school). I told this to one of my friends and cried (I didn't know what to do). By the end of the day, I escaped without looking back. And he never came back. I remember he added me on FB, and just texted him twice discussing this issue. It ended up bad to the point I angrily asked him to leave me alone. He excused himself saying "I'm sorry but I can't have a relationship rn" when I NEVER ASKED FOR ONE! Especially with someone way older than me (I discovered years later at college that he was originally 21). I did tell one of my female teachers about this issue, but I don't know what happened to him. Until a couple of months ago... He started studying in my current University but I just graduated. Suck it, Socrates!

[@kieraburgess3431]

Ackley Bridge is an interesting to look at for this. It shows a female teacher and a male student which is rare. The teacher gets punished and it shows the impact on the student, who is unable to finish the school year as a result of the grooming he has experienced

[@yaboileon3758]

I’m always confused by this trope. My teachers won’t even friend or follow back a student until they have fully graduated. In my school you literally can’t be friends with a teacher. The relationship is purely professional until you’ve graduated. I love my teachers a lot but it’s purely because they’re my teacher and they want me to succeed in school and life

[@heydeedoubleyou8881]

I stumbled across this channel and this is the first video of yours that I've watched. I think this is so valuable. I'd also like to add in particularly how damaging it is showing boys with older teachers. Our society has romanticised Boys sleeping with their teachers for too long. It is disappointing that it is still celebrated but I feel like change is coming and that's important. My friend was assaulted by her teacher when she was 16. He went to jail and it was later revealed that he had a history of doing this. That trauma that she still deals with daily from this 9 years later is heartbreaking. I love her dearly and support her the best I can but tv and movies absolutely need to do better

[@jasmynemills8567]

the fact that the trope happened twice in the original gossip girl is mind-blowing. the first time i watched gossip girl i was 13, and this lead me to believe that teacher/student relationships were acceptable

[@jasonlang9074]

This isn’t a student teacher relationship I guess but why don’t we call out “call me by your name” while we’re here

[@luisasalazar6026]

YES no one talks about how messed up it was

[@swain-Ix1tv]

everyone just fucking romanticizes it by saying "oh it's 1980s italy it was different back then" no you freak their relationship is still pretty shady. the movie is beautiful but their relationship kinda isn't

[@maria-jocelynebousseau6127]

Yeees, so true.

[@totallynotafanficreader7850]

Why? What happened?

[@YouHadMeAtHalo]

@@totallynotafanficreader7850people act like it’s a cute relationship when it really isn’t

[@rosr7627]

They should stop with this weird age gap relationships in tv, one of my friends dated a man that was around 60 (she's 21) and his friends wanted her introduce them to the the rest of her young friends (aka me and the rest). That's disturbing and gross, they shouldn't even be around us, they are three times our age and we are barely adults. There's nothing wrong with age gaps but between adults and non abusive situations.

[@Natalia-jx9zp]

Great thought out, well spoken vid! The only thing it was missing was discussion about the differences in attitude people seem to have when its a male-student vs female-student relationship, in real life as well as in media.

[@stepahead5944]

Good! Thank you for taking a firm stance that this is wrong, NO exceptions. The perpetuation of this trope is soo infuriating. It's soo common from film, television, and books to fanfic.

[@SrtaLJCarneiro]

You forgot that Mean Girls also depicts teacher stundant relationship with side characters and desaproves it.

[@Margann1987]

This is only for television shows.

[@greyves_]

This shift seems to involve a new focus on boys being the prey rather than girls, which frankly feels like a cop-out bc it lets straight men continue to get away with this behavior and excuses misogynistic and homophobic beliefs (“of course the gay man is a predator” etc)

[@greyves_]

It also highlights the boys’ struggles while ignoring the girls’, even though girls are more commonly subjected to predatory behavior, which just perpetuates the patriarchy (“boys are more important than girls”)

[@ash.whothat]

@Rowan Tackitt It doesnt ignore girl's struggles because its not about girl's struggles. There are still so many people who believe that boys can't be groomed or abused or se*ually harrased because you know 'they're boys' and its important to show boy's face the same damn thing and abuse isnt gender specific

[@alliew31]

@@ash.whothat While true that boys can very much be victims and a lot of people don’t believe that, it is also questionable that newer portrayals tend to not have female victims anymore. Of course media should show that women can be groomers and men can be abused but after years of romanticizing it with male teachers and female students there shouldn’t be a majority of male students now that it’s being critiqued

[@wdrh03]

In my university, if the professor/lecturer have a personal relationship with the students, they have to disclose it to the faculty. The faculty has to arrange so they will not be in the same class together, so the party with power no longer have the power to manipulate or taking advantage. But if it's high school, it's totally illegal

[@feelingReckless13]

I'm always always always going to point out that in the scene where Ezra and Aria get married and at the classic "does anyone object" line the photographer who "accidentally" interrupts is played by none other than I. Marlene King aka the creator of the show. So no one can tell me that she wasn't forced into that ending by the network and that was her subtle way of protesting. She literally started that season by having someone call Ezra a predator for god's sake.

[@emmapierskalla7622]

I remember watching an episode of criminal minds and it did a perfect job of portraying a plot of one of the characters having a sibling commit suicide because of one of these relationships. I applaud them for choosing to focus an episode on this issue. It was more of an intense story but it was done well.

[@Sarah-nr8sv]

In which episode was this?

[@emmapierskalla7622]

@@Sarah-nr8sv season 14 episode 5 "The Tall Man"

[@Sarah-nr8sv]

@@emmapierskalla7622 thanks

[@maloneaqua]

I felt differently about A Teacher not because Eric was fully explored, but because Claire was completely laid bare for who she was and what she did. She gets out of prison and experiences the shame of being a registered s offender, wearing a monitor, urinating in front of her PO, and making minimum wage sleeping on her brothers couch, who by the way - vehemently dislikes her as does his entire family. Then there’s Claire’s husband! Pitifully recoiling from her and treating her with disgust. All of that in addition to showing Eric’s future were enough to completely unravel any notions of romance in the early episodes in my opinion. We go from this once fresh, beautiful young educator turn into a sour, sad ex-con. My only criticism is in Eric’s final confrontation with her. It’s pure movie magic that a victim gets to confront a predator alone - it’s illegal and rarely happens, and even if it did - it’d hardly be as gratifying as we’d like to think. Predators rarely fully realize the devastation of their actions; I wish cinema would push the message that we should not look to the predators to take responsibility for their behavior to grant closure or healing - it’s a fantasy gaslighting. We have to help people find ways to close chapters of their trauma without a predators acknowledgement or assistance.

[@GenericAspergian]

hey! i'd like to thank you for this amazing video, i am a phd student who about a year ago got into a relationship with my secondary supervisor. he didn't directly oversee my work but he is 20 years older than me and a senior academic in the department. it is against dept rules for grad students and professors to date, and we decided to do it anyway and the comments he made to me about the relationship needing to be secret (e.g. "if you tell anyone i'll deny it and say that you're crazy") at all costs really started to weigh heavy on me. my friends in the dept were his direct students and i felt isolated from them and even scared to interact with them. eventually we decided to cool things off, but i felt horrible for a really long time after and didn't know why. because of this video i realised that i had been groomed as an adult and the power dynamic wasn't something that could be overlooked, and that's why i still felt terrible. i finally summoned up the courage to tell the department heads yesterday and turns out there have been a bunch of complaints been made against this man, and they are going to take action. i cannot thank you enough for the impact this video made on me and how it took away the rose-tinted glasses from my eyes and let me see the truth.

[@zoewww]

when i was younger i LOVED ezra and aria and saw literally nothing wrong with it, growing up i realized just how fucked up that was that they were promoting a relationship like that to essentially kids and young teens

[@MinttMeringue]

Earlier this semester my history teacher was talking about how while teacher-student relationships are bad for high school students, it's not really an issue for colleges. It felt really weird to hear... we're at a community College where while we do have plenty of married adult students, lots are like me and fresh out of high school so. Idk.

[@mirael96]

Making the teacher look "young and sexy" doesn't make it okay... It's exactly what screen writers are doing over and over again.

[@oa5538]

another thing about river dale is that the relationship between Archie and miss grundie is sort of skimmed over. it was definitely romanticised and though it did have consequences for miss grundie it did not have any for anyone else. what I mean by this is that Archie, and everyone else around him, seemed to forget about the relationship almost as soon as it was over, which just isn’t a realistic portrayal.

[@kaepiper]

if you’re expecting anything realistic at all, riverdale is not where you should be hoping to get it. that show is so damn awful LMFAO it’s all over the place if the show didn’t go completely off the rails after season 1, they could’ve explored that more in the second season.

[@ddahlia3607]

i think genera+ion also does a good job at discussing this trope. chester has a crush on his counselor, sam, and matches with him on grindr as an older guy. but when he confeses, sam shuts it down immediately and its honestly so refreshing to see an adult act responsible in a teen show

[@MissCaraMint]

Honestly the reason these shows can portray these relationships they way they do is because the high school student are played by 20 year olds. If it was somebody actually high school age you can bet people would see how disgusting it really is.

[@celeste4472]

Y'all: skins with Chris and Angie!!!

[@katiesperr-crane6558]

my dark vanessa is a fanastic portrayal of the manipulation and grooming that happens in a student/teacher relationship. genuinely one of my favorite books i’ve ever read

[@kathryndusek5086]

As a teacher myself, I want to say THANK YOU for doing this video! It’s always really bothered me that these relationships are shown as “romantic” 🤮🤮. I try to talk to my classes about this every year so hopefully none of them fall into this kind of trap. I really hope movies and TV start to show the reality of these situations more and more. All of this is to say - your video is important and thank you for sharing.

[@bellagrace-gm8fz]

You make AMAZING content. I legitimately didn’t want the video to end .

[@ltrvii6961]

Your video is great. As I had myself a “relationship” with my high school teacher as well. Although I gave my consent at the time, it did of course end up badly and affect my mental health a lot. It’s really important to stop romantisize those “relationships”. I’m not gonna tell more because I’m a bit afraid of reactions I can get. It’s important to highlight how toxic those kind of relationship can affect young people and as a girl you will be shamed for that.

[@noahwallace8252]

I think Riverdale portrays the relationship as a little more predatory than it seems. While the characters of the show don’t interact with the relationship in healthy ways (Because they’re Riverdale characters), the context and framing of the show does not paint it in a positive light at all. The first season takes a lot of time to get across that Archie is incredibly trusting and easily manipulated, and so in the latter half where he tries to tell Grundy that he needs to come clean and she starts telling him that’s an awful idea, the audience isn’t really on her side at all, instead you’re lead to think “Oh no she’s tricking poor Archie what an awful woman.” And while Archie never grasps how he’s been abused (because he’s a Riverdale character), the audience does. And as the season comes to a close and she becomes more desperate and her manipulative phrasing becomes more and more obvious, Grundy starts to come off as more and more of a villain in every scene she’s in all the way up to her death. However, I watched this as an adult, and I can see how a teenage audience would not take the cues that Grundy is a monster,.

[@cincocats320]

Riverdale is such a weird show. I'm genX and watched for the actors playing the parents. It made ME feel like a gross creeper to watch the kids doing their overly sexualized teens stuff. Once Luke Perry died I couldn't sit through it anymore. I think if I were a teen watching it I would have developed some really unhealthy ideas about relationships. And the way the Grundy relationship was handled, I felt like they kind of swept under the rug that female teacher going after male student is predatory. Once she was a victim of a serial killer she was basically absolved of wrongdoing and there wasn't much reflection on how messed up the relationship was.

[@monkimallow]

I have a friend who was in a relationship with a full adult who left her husband for her. Who was also abusive on top of all that. Her parents moved her to a new country to get her away from the woman and eventually she did come forward. But the kinds of things she said were: "You're in this relationship to you are as much to blame." And "I left my husband for you and I'm risking my kids and risking going to jail for you of course I love you." It was real disgusting stuff.

[@jaylap.8734]

the way the whole “ezra going to prison as he should boo hoo” plot line makes it clear the show is directed at younger audiences makes this sm more sinister. like only a person who is v young and uninformed would feel the way the show is clearly trying to make the viewers feel. adult audiences would rightfully see this as almost a slap in the face. to show what he actually deserves only to try and convince us it’s to feel sympathy for the predator and not want aria to do what is necessary??? ew. it’s like the producers/writers know only younger ppl would fall for that bs. PLUS the fact that it’s these same younger ppl who are targeted by real-life groomers and would convince themselves it’s ok bc everything worked out for aria and ezra?? throw the whole show away✋🏽

[@PinkieSmuts]

I, at 12 years old or so, was obsessed with the show, and Ezra x Aria was my main infatuation. The "forbidden romance" aspect with the taboo of it all was like gasoline on a fire of exploring boundaries, which of course grew real ugly, way beyond this show. Many years have passed and I can attest that it didn't do well to my general well-being. I'm glad tv have toned it down over the years, and I hope that PLL fall into oblivion so no 12 year old will again sit and swoon and sigh over excused abuse and shameless romanticism

[@bryanna_renaee]

Even as a teenager myself, I was writing a book highlighting the dangerous implications of this. It was not depicted romantically at all but as a warning of how badly it affects the victim. This was a time where all my friends watched these shows and read fiction that glorified this and it never ever sat right with me.