The Chevy Bolt Recall & The EV Battery Fire Problem

[@Asianometry]

Yes, I typo'ed "runaway" as "runway". I am deeply sorry. Remember to sign up to the newsletter! asianometry.substack.com/

[@ongwy66]

Hi, informative and great videos as always. Btw, at 4:01, “Musk” was pronounced as “Tusk”.

[@THERE_IS_NO_DATA]

There were multiple typos throughout the video, where You spelled Thermal Run-AWAY as Run-WAY two different things, thermal runway being more of a euphemism for the maximum and minimum Range of thermal capacity with in a certain application or circumstance, Thermal RunAWAY being the Uncontrolled increased Temperature of a chemical reaction. Starting at 6:14

[@Tower0fHeaven]

Friend, it should be thermal run-away not runway. Good work otherwise please keep up the awesome work

[@Asianometry]

Yes, I said runway, not runaway. I'm sorry.

[@Graham_Wideman]

@Trevor Phillips Elon Tusk is a parody character on Rick and Morty, and apparently is actually voiced by Elon Musk.

[@ramkitty]

important safety point, the hf reaction will gleefully occur in your lungs. stay clear stay safe dont breath electronic vapours

[@Jushwa]

We’re going to have such a great time in a decade

[@andreyv116]

mm super toxic gases

[@bigh8121]

hf???what does it mean.

[@GeneralThargor]

Water doesn't smother a fire, it cools it down thus removing one of the sides of the fire triangle. Fuel, heat and oxygen are required for fire. Water cools the fuel preventing it from burning. But as you say the heat is generated internally in the battery therefore making it particularly difficult to extinguish.

[@julesverneinoz]

As a fire warden my first reaction at a battery fire would be to use CO2 extinguisher, but if it's too hot it'll most likely re-ignite. Are we going to have liquid nitrogen extinguishers? 😋

[@doujinflip]

It really is the fire safety concern that continues to make EV flareups newsworthy. With a combustion engine it's fairly straightforward to knock out a leg of the fire triangle (heat + fuel + oxygen), but in a battery all these elements are chemically self-contained which is why they're so difficult to put out. I noticed walking around China how much of the state messaging centers around fire safety and how the ubiquitous electric bikes are often banned from indoor parking, because of how often fires keep starting from scooter batteries which are now practically all the lithium type. Also found it amusing at 7:12 where the subtitles described "degrees Freedom" 🇺🇲

[@frodovip]

BYD BLADE 👌👌👌

[@johnmanderson2060]

For LNMC batteries owners (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt) Remember the golden rule : Stay in the “Happy Zone” of 20-80% charge to maintain a good healthy battery. Charge only at 100% at the last minute before hitting the road if absolutely needed, in order to minimize dendrites formation in the cells. It is important to mention that LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is a much safer chemistry, no thermal runaway, even punctured, and most importantly, almost no degradation before 2’000’000 km, compared to LNMC degradation of 30% every 10 years. It is very important.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

You are the first commenter on YT that I've seen who knows about battery management. This video I just watched is wrong in so many ways. It was created to rally all the EV haters with crazy talk.

[@johnmanderson2060]

@@bingosunnoon9341 Thanks 🙏🏼! Just want to help and hopefully, avoid battery 🔋 fires 🔥 😇

[@marcxiong8332]

If that's the case wouldn't they already make the batteries at default to charge at that range. Come on 🤦

[@bingosunnoon9341]

@@marcxiong8332 High performance, long range or long battery life. Choose one.

[@anonimuse6553]

Great job. Good research. I like all the little humorous bits as well. Me thinks Elon tusk would also approve. Personally I like 'thermal runway'. It also makes sense as it's like going down a runway before take off.

[@qlum]

Another factor that can make ev fires more problematic is that unlike fires in combustion engines, they can happen more often when the vehicle is unattended. Potentially burning down other things like buildings. This is something that happened with an electric bike, across the street from my place of work.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Chargers cause more fires than batteries. Some of these power supplies are of poor design and lack cooling fans or are used without proper ventilation. I had one customer who poked a hole in his battery with a screw that was too long. He tried to blame the battery for the resulting catastrophic discharge.

[@kubaurbanski]

Incredible video as always, it's my favorite channel discovered in 2022, no doubt. I rarely comment on videos, but I must admit, that it was really “interesting” to see LG's EVs batteries factory commercial, which is in my city(Wroclaw, Poland), when they brag about producing batteries for the whole Europe 😉

[@DanBurgaud]

3:09 so basically GM told Bolt owners to park the car in a landfill...

[@Murphistic]

Well, they did that to EV1, so I guess that was their first idea here, too :D

[@robertbrown1338]

Dear Customers Assuming your vehicle has a 200 mile range at 90% you can charge your car to 180 miles. You should only discharge the vehicle to 70 miles.. so you have a theoretical maximum range of 110 miles.. You will be able to drive to work, but you'll have to park outside, and potentially about 16 miles outside the city limits before you find an open air car parking space within 50 meters of another vehicle. Once parked you should write a note on two traffic cones with 'fire safety warning do not park within 50 meters' and go set those up before heading off to work.. Once you get back to your car parking spot at 10:55pm there might be a nice toasty hydrogen cyanide fire burning to warm you up.. if you're lucky your car might get you home without insta-cremating you on the highway.. best of luck PS - Thanks for your $35k Yours Sincerely The electric car industry..

[@DanBurgaud]

@@robertbrown1338 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@m2heavyindustries378]

@@robertbrown1338 lol boomers these days

[@robertbrown1338]

@@m2heavyindustries378 wha?

[@scruffy4647]

I have a 2013 Chevy Volt that I bought brand new. The batteries were made by LG Chem. They're not pouch batteries and not cylindrical. I am guessing prismatic. As far as traction batteries goes, it's old technology, but of all the Volts manufactured, there has only been a few cases of battery fires. As far as charging, you can leave the charge cord plugged in for a long as you like. Once it reaches it SOC, it just quits. No need to monitor your SOC. It's too bad about the Bolt.

[@Theoryofcatsndogs]

Can you tell me how much battery charge is left in your battery pack? Do you need to replace the battery yet?

[@scruffy4647]

@@Theoryofcatsndogs I just turned over 100k miles. Display shows 9.5 kWh usage from full charge to switch to ICE. On not cold days, I still get 38 - 40 miles range.

[@scruffy4647]

Correction on the battery configuration. They are not cylindrical. Not sure if they are considered pouch or prismatic.

[@Theoryofcatsndogs]

@@scruffy4647 that is not a lot of range, unless you only travel around within city.

[@scruffy4647]

@@Theoryofcatsndogs The Volt was originally rated for 38 miles on the traction battery. Then it would switch over to the ICE. Not a pure EV. 70% of most people’s commute daily was within this battery range, hence the size of the battery. 16.5 KWh. Best of both worlds, no range anxiety. At least back in 2010. Today’s EV profile is different. No point in adding a range extended engine. More range, more charging stations. I am guessing the change to EVs is going to come quicker than what was thought

[@PeakVT]

Lots of errors in this video. Apart from the minor ones others have pointed out, the largest on is that you missed the agreement between GM and LG which will lead to LG covering the overwhelming share of the costs. Lawsuits are probably NOT forthcoming.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Apparently, accuracy is not important

[@tomfahey2823]

The impression I got from the video was that the lawsuits would likely be addressed by LG Energy to it's sub-contractors. He states upfront the fact that LG accepted responsibility, as well as the fact that they're working with GM to rectify the problem, so I think the only error here is your interpretation of what he meant...

[@noname-qf8jg]

Yes, those lithium incendiary bombs are very unreliable. Sometimes they just sit there and act like secondary batteries

[@S3thc0n]

In Germany I have seen the fire department store entire EVs in large baths of water to keep them from reigniting.

[@navsenjoy]

!! ..& he mentioned that water seeped inside can cause the fire...

[@Bialy_1]

@@navsenjoy Yea but the whole point is to keep it safe also it will gonna block chemicals from poisoning our air.

[@volkhen0]

When car is submerged in water there will be no thermal runaway due to good “cooling” of battery and cells.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

They do not. That's just BS.

[@RawbLV]

Source on that? I would like to see it myself, because putting batteries in water sounds counter intuitive.

[@ChicagoBob123]

My buy back is complete. My Bolt is gone. GM was difficult to work with and still owes me money

[@richardscathouse]

Typically GM

[@JurekOK]

6:20 it's "Thermal run-away" and NOT "Thermal runway". It does not mean that there is a launchpad, highway, or any sort of road for it to run. Run-away means that the hotter it gets, the more heat is produced. A positive feedback loop. Once triggered, makes it go on fire, and stay on fire until all available material is consumed. It's another way of saying "it is unstable" or "it has entered a region of instability" on the temperature.

[@StephenMortimer]

at first I thought it was just his lisp.. but then he wrote it .. wonder how he got confused

[@letthetunesflow]

Thermal Runway? Cool! Not exactly sure how a battery explodes in a runway fashion, but I like it! I was thinking they would have maybe called it “Thermal Runaway” 🏃…🤔, but “Runway” 🛫…Noway! 😂 I kid, love your videos man!

[@ddegn]

I suppose *"Thermal Runway"* is the euphemistic way to say *"Thermal Runaway."* "Thermal Runaway" isn't a euphemistic expression so a different combo of words is needed to describe it euphemistically. *"I kid, love your videos man!"* Same here.

[@Asianometry]

I am sorry. I meant runaway.

[@ddegn]

@@Asianometry I'm sure we're the only two who noticed. 😉 Seriously, thanks for all the great videos.

[@ErraticPT]

Alway known it as "Thermal Run away" not thermal runway. Because the heat starts relatively low but soon becomes virtually unstoppable (ie it runs away).🤔

[@Ikbeneengeit]

Yeah it's not an euphemism; that's a common term in engineering in several fields.

[@GeFlixes]

10:30 I've heard that some fire departments "park" any EV on fire for a week in a full immersion water bath. They just fill a open-top trash container with water and dumb the EV in.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

That is BS

[@rgarnold4284]

My friend decided to make sure his didn't reignite by pushing it into his swimming pool. His wife was not happy.

[@Suedeman]

@@bingosunnoon9341 tow companies around here do that with them after a big crash or fire. Their totaled anyway

[@bingosunnoon9341]

@@Suedeman Water is not used to fight chemical fires. Never.

[@PatLyoutubepage]

I remember a while ago when the hoverboards were all the hype and I had one until the battery set itself on fire and it was energetic. battery saftey has to be taken seriously

[@willyolio9590]

Despite knowing that EV fires are quite rare, I'd still prefer to get a car with an LFP battery. Range can be fixed with more charging infrastructure, it only needs to be "enough" for weekend use.

[@kasuha]

Electric battery is like monopropellant as rocket fuel - all the things are in place to release the energy as heat, you only need to add initial impulse. Gasoline needs access to oxygen to burn, that's why it is safe in the tank. The fact that batteries release oxygen when heated up is even more worrying because as the battery heats up, it literally puts on fire even low flammable things around it.

[@gearloose703]

Good analogy. It is almost impossible to burn even fraction of the gasoline in a car fire. Ratio is like ten to one what a fully charged battery will release vs. what full tank of gas can do. When comparing the MJ's it is realized they are not comparable in scale.

[@cm1701a]

I think you meant "Thermal Runaway" :- not Thermal Runway. An empty runway is needed ASAP if your EV is experiencing thermal runaway. Appreciated the Elon Tusk/ Rick and Morty reference- brought a smile.

[@letthetunesflow]

Hah whoops missed your comment about this, noticed the typo and mispronunciation right away and thought it was just a bit of a silly mistake or a pretty good attempt at some very dry humour. Regardless we all make mistakes, it’s pretty good when your mistakes give people a bit of a laugh, intentional or otherwise 😂, and in the end, they don’t cause much of problem other than about 1000 idiots like ourselves, having to go around and annoyingly, and instantly, point it out to the whole world, hah!

[@Asianometry]

Yes I am sorry about the runaway.

[@Steve.Hawthorne]

One I haven’t seen - you mispronounced Porsche. While many people pronounce “Porsche” as “Porsh,” that is incorrect. The correct way to pronounce “Porsche” is actually as a two-syllable word: “Por-shuh.”

[@Vandalfoe]

Great vid. I drive a Volt but nearly bought a Bolt. Thanks for the good infos!

[@richardscathouse]

I have A Hyundai Kona EV i wouldn't trust Chevy with anything new

[@Vandalfoe]

@@richardscathouse what an odd thing to say about Kias/Hyundais. Do you not know they're the Harbor Freight of cars? They just seem cheaper to buy new, but you don't see old ones driving around.

[@platin2148]

The problem with a EV Burning vs a Gasoline car is that lithium can’t be extinguished in a normal way. Also if you turn it down it reignites sometimes did see and had this happen several times. Terrible

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Burning gasoline cannot be extinguished in a normal way either.

[@platin2148]

@@bingosunnoon9341 I think you don’t get what i mean water doesn’t help for lithium there are only two things right now which work effectively without destroying the surrounding nature that might be next to a street. Which are silica beats or sand (both do not extremely good) For a gasoline btw. you can just use a fire extinguisher 🧯 if the fire is gone then that’s it it will not reignite.

[@PlanetFrosty]

You were on fire with this video...🔥...😂...good thoughtful job as usual, sorry for the bad jokes. I know this was not fun for those harmed.

[@noneofyourbizness]

me: hears "runway" a few times. me: i strongly suspect the term used in the industry is: thermal runAway. Asianometry: Note: "Yes, It's thermal runaway, not runway. I am sorry. " me: likes the honesty. all the best and thanks for educational vid.

[@don.timeless4993]

BYD Blade Battery geniusly solved this problem!

[@richardscathouse]

I'm hoping so.

[@connerdavidson7087]

Isn't this also because companies have been trying to reduce the cobalt in the cathode over the past 6 years due to associations with "conflict minerals", child labor, environmental damage and the relatively high prices?

[@brunoheggli2888]

I love the Bolt!Its a great car!

[@richardscathouse]

Just too underpowered. My Hyundai gets 300 mi with the same 65kw battery. I haven't heard of one burning yet. Although the block one LG batteries did have a recall. My 22 uses Samsung batteries

[@brunoheggli2888]

@@richardscathouse Hy Hyundais are great and good value for the money!

[@davbhard]

In the end, over 140,000 bolts have been sold. And a total of 16 have caught fire. That is a 0.011428571428571% chance of the car catching on fire. This whole thing got way more attention than it deserves. But I get a free battery replacement, and have the battery warranty extended even further. So I don't mind it.

[@Bialy_1]

Clearly you do not understand that this is % for new cars with new battery so in the end the number of cases would not look so nice on top of that this are nasty fire not only they are hard to stop but they are poluting environment a loot with very nasty chemicals.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Sensationalism is alive and well

[@davbhard]

@Biały clearly you do not that this is the percentage of total fires, vs. total bolts sold in the US. The percentage I addressed is total bolt fies of all years since development. And the 140,000 figure, comes from total bolts sold in the US since it was released to the public. Not new cars with new batteries. Its EVERY BOLT SOLD since the 2017 model was first released. And that pollution has nothing to do with the percentage of fires. You are trying to bring other attempts at arguments, that have no bearing in the subject of either my post, or the subject of the video. But if you would like to talk about the pollution. I could easily say I couldn't care less. I don't drive an EV in hopes that it reduces pollution. Or in hopes that I'm somehow saving the earth by driving electric. I drive an EV because gas has been $5 and up a gallon for most of 2021, and now beginning 2022 with that price. It saves me money. My EV payments are about $300 a month. I was spending $120 a week in gas alone. With free level 2 charging to all employees, I don't even have to charge at home. I just drive to work, let my car charge as I work, then drive home with a full charge. I got my car in June. Gas alone would have cost at minimum $2880. My car payments have totaled $1800. That's saving around $1000 in gas alone in 6 months. Then you factor in not having any oil changes. No waiting in line to fill up. No pulling off the freeway at rush hour to get gas on the way home.

[@dpiercyscomics]

@@davbhard yes, you save some money at the pump, but car registration is anywhere from $200-$2k a year for an EV, depending where you live in the country.

[@porroapp]

You should look into BYO LFP blade batteries.

[@fredinit]

Jon, Runway versus runaway, tusk versus Musk. Meh. If these are the only errors in a 15 minute essay you're doing pretty good. Sam over @Half as Interesting can have 10x this number in 1/3 the time. Both of you guys are still fun, and informative, to watch!

[@johnweiner]

"Thermal Runway" might be a better term than "Thermal Runaway" but engineers love terms like "runaway", "walk-off" (as in Poynting vector walk-off), and other rough-and-ready appellations for undesirable phenomena.

[@sava411]

There are a few extra things to consider when discussing the statistics related to EV vehicle fires. EV vehicles are much younger than the average ICE. Most ICE car fires happen due to either the electrical system shorting, or a crash. It seems like EV fires happen quite often when the vehicle is left parked/charging which rarely ever happens with ICE vehicles. IMO parked fires are a lot more dangerous as they can burn down an entire house if left in the garage.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

Millions of BMWs have been recalled for randomly catching fire, even when parked and off. South Korean also banned a bunch of BMW models because of frequent engine fires. EV & ICE fires are a quality issue, not an inherent feature. GM learned what happens when you trust LG (aka “Lucky Goldstar”) to do quality control.

[@davbhard]

Quite often? 16 fires out of 5 production years? And over 140,000 sold? That is just the Bolt alone, but it doesn't sound like it's happening "quite often" at all. Right now, there is less than a .5% chance, that if you had a Bolt, it would catch on fire.

[@alanmay7929]

Let’s not forget the millions of super old ice cars and the faulty repairs, bad installation of gadgets in cars, vandalism and a lot more.

[@Bialy_1]

@@davbhard Its 0.0114% chance with 16 out of 140,000. You need to work on your math skills...

[@davbhard]

@@Bialy_1 pretty sure that .011 is less than .5 so yes, there is LESS than a .5% chance. Unless you believe that .011 is somehow more than .5 In which case you would need to work on your basic counting skills.

[@hemaccabe4292]

Fires in electric cars get more attention because the car just seems to pop. Whereas in ice cars it generally happens after an accident and is more predictable.

[@richardscathouse]

So many Teslas have burned to date the news doesn't bother to report them anymore

[@clivelee4279]

Thank you for your explanation..

[@wassiswallylokhankin191]

GM replaced the battery in my 2019 Bolt EV last year. I wonder if the new battery is really safer, how long it will last and what is actually new about it.

[@aniksamiurrahman6365]

Thanks, Mr. Jon, for portraying the complexity of the situation.

[@catsspat]

When I have a comment to make on a video, I always search for the same thing first, so I don't end up duplicating the same point. It's not a 100% guarantee because I only search maybe 5-10 pages worth of comments (scroll down so KZbin will load more comments), but I'm generally successful at it. I would think this is a common sense, but then again, common sense is a super power these days, so oh well.

[@thinkabout602]

thank you - this is needed to understand safety in e cars 👍

[@Thehighschoolscientistforever]

Please make a video on pemfc and the problem that lie in its manufacturing

[@justcallmejohn2833]

My 2017 Bolt has it’s new battery now. LG is paying to replace all the batteries, as far as I know there have not been any fires in the new batteries.

[@Saka_Mulia]

All these supermodels on the “Thermal Runway” are super hot! Tsssshhhhhh!

[@festeradams3972]

The kids in the high speed Tesla fire incident are proof on an old adage..."One boy, one brain, two boys, 1/2 brain, 3 boys...no brain".

[@richardscathouse]

They should be glad it just didn't decide to drive them into a tree.

[@JoeOvercoat]

It’s a crude analogy but it’s like a campfire which can be dangerous, and a blowtorch which can be damned dangerous.

[@BramBiesiekierski]

Thermal runway, or thermal run-away? When the equivalent happens in a diesel engine, it's known as "diesel run-away"

[@Asianometry]

Runaway, I am sorry.

[@ErraticPT]

Diesel run aways can be really interesting to watch (unless of course you own the engine and have to pay for the damage caused).

[@onceuponfewtime]

9:40 hydro florua is a chemical I instantly recall as a strong acid, Thank to my chemistry teacher. Thank you

[@AaronSchwarz42]

30-80% short interval charging LIPO makes them last 5X to 10x longer in both cycle life & calendar life (smartphones, laptops, smartwatches, electric vehicles) Storing lithium at close to 50 deg F at 30-40% charged outside of the device, reduces cell degradation while the battery pack in storage; a short 5-10 min monthly maintenance charge to boost the pack charge a bit while in storage usually enough to overcome the self discharge rate. Avoid overheating & freezing lithium ion batteries & never bend, cut, puncture, damage or short circuit them as that can give rise to a risk for venting with flame as noted in the video I worked at a professional battery tech for more than 8 years & am also a college educated scientist with chemistry knowledge about batteries FYI

[@Igorooooleynikov]

So no electric cars in hot places like california and in cold countries where temperature in winter usually lower than -10C? Also, does bad roads affect batteries?

[@davidferris4563]

@@Igorooooleynikov the batteries in the Volt and Bolt have a dedicated cooling and heating system that keeps the battery at it's optimum temperature for operation. That's why they last so long. My Volt for example is 5 years old and I still get 100% of the battery capacity out of it

[@LanceHKW]

Good information to enlighten me on EVs. Thanks!

[@kenc2386]

Your precious ev will be expected to keep up with the vehicle it is to replace. A Toyota Camry costs half to 2/3 the price, requires fueling approximately 5 minutes. Once a week. Oh, and in Ca, a flex alert means skip charging the ev.

[@UpNfamish2]

LG Chem is subcontracting its EV batteries to countries outside Korea ?

[@richardscathouse]

Not yet. I hear they want to build a plant in Ukraine. But that's on hold

[@xsleep1]

As to the screenshot of the GM ad towards the end. Why is a surfer who lost her arm in a shark attack featured???? I know she is famous for continuing to surf with one arm but is this some kind of metaphor for GM?

[@HansTheGeek]

The iconic German sports car brand ist not called “Porsch” but “Porsche” with an “e” at the end like in “Name”.

[@PIcoAirBearings]

It’s pronounced Deutsche, not German....

[@HansTheGeek]

@@PIcoAirBearings German (Standard High German: Deutsch, pronounced [dɔʏtʃ]) is a West Germanic language mainly spoken in Central Europe. (Wikipedia)

[@QuietStormX]

GM won't take a Hit. It's not the EV but the Battery pack is the issue. LG pays for this.

[@richardscathouse]

So basically, the US government. LG is South Korea. Everything there is covered by the same US government that bails out Chevy every few year's

[@ilyashick3178]

Just curious all bolts still under recall from 2021. Why do we need to talk about what happened in past. By the way, VW ID 4.0 is recommendation to charge battery up to 80%.

[@richardscathouse]

It's not an issue you keep water in the battery cooling system. As long as the temperature is under 30c then you might want to charge to only 80 percent

[@gustavderkits8433]

You said “magnesium” but meant “Manganese”.

[@0deepak]

What do you think of KZbin removing the dislike count?

[@agoogler1887]

Good program 🤓

[@michaelplotkin7383]

Great video, thanks.

[@firstname1lastname127]

1:43 are you trolling us? That's a Volt, not a Bolt...

[@kenfung2121]

lithium battery fire is unstoppable, best way to finish is let it burnt down. acts like a nuclear meltdown .

[@CraigDohner]

I thought it was called Thermal "Runaway"?

[@MrZoomZone]

Great video - Thank you. A couple of anomalies; Thermal Runway?🤣 AKA Thermal Run away? Elon Tusk?😂 AKA Elon Musk?

[@Muonium1]

I'm going to open a strip club in Silicon Valley where all the performers will be required to have landing strips and I'm going to call it The Thermal Runway.

[@alexlo7708]

Pouch battery cell in my phone always bubble. I changed it several times. Never expected anyone used it in car.

[@Diamond_Hanz]

Tesla: hold my beer

[@tarasluchka6886]

Hi, i really like your videos. Thank you for your work. Can you make video about Winston battery and CALB, Lifepo4 battery manufacturers from China. Thank you.

[@markissboi3583]

the only thing you can do with a car battery unit on fire is Dump it in a container of water Fire brigades have learnt to do this safer

[@hemaccabe4292]

I don’t think it thermal runway. I think it’s thermal runaway.

[@a11u45]

I like the Elon Tusk Rick and Morty reference

[@halahmilksheikh]

Why would a company sell a product at a 8000 dollar loss? I'm assuming that's before EV subsidies?

[@user-mg4yw9yc7l]

Halal The probable answer is to gain acceptance, market share and experience . When they have these things and sales volume builds manufacturing costs will fall ( they hope ). I think John might tell you every new chip that comes out to market debuts below cost and only as things progress do they recoup there money and turn a profit ( they hope). m

[@RawbLV]

Many products are first sold at a loss to gain marketshare.

[@raffly4449]

Your video shows a Chevrolet Volt at 1:44 rather than a Bolt.

[@officer_baitlyn]

one thing i can't quite see is how a tightly packed parking lot with EVs won't end in an enormous catastrophe

[@sashimanu]

This chain fire hazard is absolutely real with internal combustion engines as well, so not much extra risk added

[@sofatux]

"thermal runway" I can't even

[@miguellopez3392]

That's an accurate term, if heat builds up too high then the chemicals in the battery start reacting with each other and produce more heat, It's closer to a melt down than a Gas fire.

[@jameshoffman552]

3:33 Firing squad for GM/LG management?

[@andrewlambert7246]

Seems to be expensive for battery manufactures.

[@charliecollin3361]

Great video, thanks! Just one thing to clarify: Tesla now uses LFP batteries for certain models (standard range?) from its factories in both Shanghai and Fremont.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Are you talking about LiFePo4?

[@jayjwin1178]

the larger the cell, the higher the risk of thermal runaway.

[@mitchelljones5481]

Yep I heard there's been over a hundred thousand car fires

[@triadwarfare]

4:00 Elon Tusk? Is this the Rick and Morty version of Elon Musk?

[@Urgelt]

Did you just say 'Elon Tusk?' Or is my hearing on its last legs? Good explanation, but... 'Thermal runway' is not a battery term. It's 'thermal *runaway,'* pronouncing all three syllables. There are three types of cell form-factors to consider, and each has implications for battery pack fires. Chevrolet's Bolt uses LG Energy's pouch cell form-factor. Pouch cells are large, flimsy, soft-walled, and as Elon mentioned, they undergo volumetric expansion at high states of charge. P:ouch cells are placed in trays to contain them; they cannot be structural elements. Cooling is applied to the trays in GM's Bolt pack design. Pouch cells are notorious for developing 'hot spots' because cooling is further away from the chemical reactions taking place than for other types of cells. Pouch cells are probably more vulnerable to spontaneous thermal runaway than other types. Prismatic cells were developed for the consumer electronics market. This form-factor excels at conforming to odd shape requirements in the devices in which they are used. They are also the most expensive cell form-factor. Choosing prismatic cells for mobility applications - VW has recently decided to switch to prismatic cells, for example - is an odd choice. Their sole advantage is conformability, which isn't necessary in a big giant battery pack - any shape will do, so there's no reason to choose a more expensive cell design. These cells do not expand, but they have brittle walls and are not suitable for bearing structural loads. They slot into trays. The final form-factor is hard-walled cylindrical cells. These are the cheapest form-factor, in general (though prices for all three form-factors vary tremendously depending on production method, cell chemistry and purchase volume). Cylindrical cells *can* bear structural loads, and Tesla intends soon to deploy structural packs which take advantage, which will generate significant weight savings. Cylindrical cells appear to be less vulnerable to thermal runaway. Most of Tesla fires are the product of cell breaches in accidents, not spontaneous at all. Both Lucid and Rivian, relative newcomes to the BEV market, have chosen the cylindrical form-factor for their initial models. Tesla uses prismatic LFP cells from CATL in their entry-level GF-Shanghai-produced model 3s. For everything else Tesla makes, they use cylindrical cells. Tesla's plans for internally producing cells are strictly cylindrical (4680 cells). I think Tesla is using prismatic LFP cells, not because they prefer the prismatic form-factor, but because CATL can supply them, and Tesla needs every cell it can get its hands on for its manufacturing operations. In time, I think it's likely that Tesla will discontinue using prismatic LFP cells, and switch instead to cylindrical LFP cells. But not soon. Tesla has no plans that I know about to manufacture its own LFP cylindrical cells, and CATL hasn't yet offered a cylindrical LFP cell to Tesla. I do not see a future for pouch cells for mobility applications. I regard this form-factor as inferior. We probably can't lay the blame for GM's Bolt fires problem solely at the form-factor's feet; something else likely is wonky with LG Energy's pouch cells. But the cooling disadvantage for this form-factor is problematic, hot spots are problematic, and a cell which changes its volume regularly is a cell which can suffer wear that the other form-factors do not experience.

[@mindaugasstankus5943]

So manufactures/sellers overpromised/oversold and now trying to pack to much into batteries with current tech and compromising safety.

[@Bialy_1]

nope

[@rareview362]

Has this occurred with the Nissan Leaf?

[@baraclude]

It's like buying the first version of a iPhone in 2000s. I will wait. For now, I will stick with hybrid.

[@msmith3395]

A hybrid has both a big battery and an ICE engine. Doesn't that double the chance of a fire?

[@zzzz5695]

7:11 that subtitles LOL

[@PedanticNo1]

Only a completely different scale, this whole situation reminds me of what has happened to nuclear power over the decades. You have a few large incidents, but on the whole a great safety record . . . but people only ever think about the few large events, even though we know that other power generation technologies are more dangerous overall. Sad.

[@bilalbaig8586]

How many ICEs have combusted just sitting in garages or while refueling?

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

@@bilalbaig8586 Sitting in garage: very few i bet. Refueling: LOTS, i think its even the most common cause of fires.

[@bilalbaig8586]

@@someonespotatohmm9513 Even while refueling, its tends to be more human error rather than machine error. Yes? That's what I was referring to.

[@dulio12385]

I'll stick to my diesel clunker. Least it doesn't spontaneously combust in my driveway.

[@wookie8975]

At 2:06 it should be manganese oxide not magnesium oxide

[@alanhonlunli]

When a gasoline car has a fire, it's because of a crash. But an EV can ignite while it's charging and your family is sleeping. That's the difference.

[@sanriosonderweg]

Here's a question, what's the deal with the super high failure rate cheap usb flash, are the machines that produce this bottom barrel memory at end of life or is it something else?

[@shaunhall6834]

GM has made too many blunders to survive. Hopefully there wont be a bailout for them this time around.

[@thesentinel9361]

The ,,Bold,,ist a Lizenzprodukt from German Car Opel.

[@bizzfo]

It’s thermal “runaway”

[@jkltg60]

Batteries turn into road side flares.

[@richardscathouse]

Always fun when it's a Tesla!

[@Hachiro]

Whatever EV I eventually own, I'm gonna do my best to keep it between 20% and 80%. 30 and 70 if I don't need the range, and don't mind charging more often. Of course there will be times where I do use the full range, but most of the time I plan to keep the cells at comfy voltages. And not plug it in every single night, like I'm sure most people do.

[@richardscathouse]

Stop winging, batteries are getting better every day. My Hyundai Kona gets up to 300 miles with a 65kwh battery. And with the liquid cooling system I never think of fires. From Sacramento, CA. i can go to the beach or go to Reno, NV on one charge. 9mos of no regrets

[@leerjet18]

1:42 shows a pic of the volt, wrong car for this vid.

[@cobaltblue2756]

ELON TUSK...! im laughing my ass of

[@cbuchner1]

This might need re-voicing and a re-upload. Also for the awkward Thermal Runways. And the Barbarians in the electrolytes confused me (am I watching Idiocracy here?). These things spoil an otherwise pretty sound video.

[@ArnaudMEURET]

Let’s take a universal minute to appreciate that for once America does not annoy the rest of the world with stupid units from the Stone Age ! 👊😅 (at 9:21)

[@NotsoFree_StateofFlorida]

"Elon Tusk" Just like in the Rick & Morty episode. LOL