The Chinese got us! - How China caught up with jet engine technology

Jet engines are one of the most important technologies to build great jet fighters and turbine blades are the most important technology to build jet engines.
The Chinese used to lag behind in jet engines and turbine blades, but it seems that now they caught up.
China seems well on the way of producing effective military turbofans for the J-20, the J-31 and the J-10.
#jet #engines #turbine
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[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

Support me on Subscribestar www.subscribestar.com/millennium-7-history-technology Support me on Patreon www.patreon.com/Millennium7

[@bernhardjordan9200]

With enough socialism the west will succumb for the commie fascists In 1930s the argentinian worker was richer than an american one and now they are the south venezuela a country that itself was rich in the early past We don't have an edge anymore due socialism

[@XimCines]

@@bernhardjordan9200 Your comment is soo out of place.

[@mikeparker2486]

:) ...basically, you are saying we still got it and *THEY CAN ONLY COPY* - awesome

[@alexandernorman5337]

I think you're reading too much into things. Yes, the Chinese do appear to be making reliable engines which are rough analogues to US-UK-Fr-Ru Cold War era designs. But they don't have a single new generation engine design in operation - and they might not get one within the next five years (although they are trying really hard to achieve that Made in China 2025 goal). Also, as China narrows the gap they will have to do more groundbreaking research - and that is way harder than trying to recreate in full what others have already published. Yes, there isn't free information available that tells them how to go about the required material science. But the general process is available. It's common knowledge (and has been for 20 years or more) that the single crystal superalloys are typically Ni3Al based. And it is common knowledge that low levels of ruthenium, rhenium, and/or tantalum improves their performance under hot conditions. It's also common knowledge that you have to control oxide growth, and that the thermal barriers used as the top coat is often yttrium based. For the past 30 years, the Chinese were able to conduct their research knowing all of this from the start. They only needed to learn *how* to apply this knowledge. In the coming decades, when China is roughly on parity, they will have to do all of their research completely in the dark. They aren't going to be able to continue at this rate. Again, they don't have a single modern design in operation. Because they don't know what to research in order to make one. It's a lot harder when you're starting with nothing.

[@XimCines]

@@alexandernorman5337 Nice answer.

[@alexrossouw7702]

"...they all need the precision mechanic of a Swiss watch, while bearing the loads of a bulldozer" = best analogy ever for aeronautical engine parts

[@chubascomohd2688]

Rolex is still the best watches in the world. The Chinese can not make the same imitation Rolex.

[@ghtwghtw7197]

@@chubascomohd2688 they already did

[@suisinghoraceho2403]

@@chubascomohd2688 China can build watches as good as the Rolex. They just don’t have the snobbish brand.

[@lustdog]

@@suisinghoraceho2403 and at a fraction of the price.

[@fatdoi003]

@@chubascomohd2688 Chinese build to client's spec... if the client country can only afford cheap shxt then cheap shxt is what they're getting....

[@frostrune]

Any country that lags behind does this, so is China Step 1: Buy foreign stuff Step 2: See how it works Step 3: Reproduce 1:1 copy Step 4: When proficient enough try to improve it Step 5: Make your own stuff with the knowledge you acquired Step 6: Profit

[@sodinc]

точно так

[@mortarriding3913]

Now the world does that to China across many sectors. But it's very hard to get past step 4 due to China's ideologically motivated system of internal IP sharing.

[@americanmink8744]

@@mortarriding3913 yes, lil bit of copying is fine but copying the shitout of everything won't help to be innovative.

[@mortarriding3913]

@@americanmink8744 so I guess America won't have 6g then? Since China has the world's most patents for that?

[@mortarriding3913]

@@americanmink8744 we're looking down the barrel of massive IP reform, and I guarantee you it will increase copying AND innovation.

[@inyourphace1690]

The US air force and navy flies and sails near the Chinese coastlines often and the US calls China a military threat at the same time. The Chinese say, ok, we'll not disappoint and be a worthy rival you wanted. LOL.

[@lesserspottedmugwump.363]

You wield the technology you have stolen like a child who has found a box of matches. The world hates you, you have no friends.

[@inyourphace1690]

@@lesserspottedmugwump.363 haters/losers' desperate curse? LOL

[@andrethorpe6183]

@@inyourphace1690 no probably simply the ranting of one of the graduates of the dumbed down deficient education system of a nation brainwashed by the "we LIE, we CHEAT, we STEAL" administration unable to use internet applications to expand the limited scope of knowledge about the world...hopefully we can fix this deficiency with re-education, improved physical infrastructure and a renewed focus in science & technology....and become more capable of competing on the global market.

[@andrewlim7751]

@@lesserspottedmugwump.363 Steal? Something like stealing 5G, sending rover to Mars and and Jet engine that are better than Russian ones? 🥱🥱🥱

[@motmot1024..]

LOL, china have satellite 6G.

[@tyrantfox7801]

I mean..... They have a ton of engineering and science graduates rolling out every year

[@SpeedfreakUK]

@@shanerooney7288 there’s more to success than math. What good is math education when your society punishes creativity?

[@mrteacher1315]

Millions

[@kori5679]

@@SpeedfreakUK They have such a larger population that they have a spare amount of creative people

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@shanerooney7288 "The West has no hope at stopping the rise of China" - What is there to stop? They are on the edge of demographic collapse and their provincial governments are tied to a housing bubble.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@shanerooney7288 The fact is that there's a difference between predicting a fall, and looking at the facts and seeing no way out. Their one child policy gave them a productive but small work force that will need to support for the larger ageing population. All these skilled engineers and scientists, they can't be busy having kids or else China doesn't develop. And it spirals from there.

[@longmarch2668]

Ironically, the theory of three-dimensional flow of turbomachinery was pioneered by Wu Zhonghua, a Chinese scientist.

[@madeinchina1450]

Where is the [Ironically] all about? I did not see it.

[@longmarch2668]

@@madeinchina1450 because China has been behind for so many decades, even though a Chinese did the pioneering work.

[@appa609]

@@longmarch2668 Too much brain drain the last few decades. All the smart kids go to America and end up at JPL or something.

[@TK-pl9cu]

Chief Scientist of the Northrop YF-23 was also Chinese

[@nawtilismaelis2043]

No it wasn't you propaganda spewing yellow shill.

[@Sari1936-]

In my town, high school does not have math teacher but has a good football team. What do you expect.

[@rabbitclimbmountain]

Haha, sounds like a typical US high school

[@junkeatng]

To much focus on brawn...and not enough on brains.

[@n0nac481]

America solely relies on the genius minds of immigrants to develop and improve their infrastructure and their military hardware whether they give them the due credit or not it doesn't matter. What actually is true tho is that the school system in the US is horrible and focus on subjects like Mathematics and Science is low and high priority is given to "Gender and Health studies" and more on sports or extra curricular activities the school offers.

[@jimmetan7031]

I just could not figure out how American can produce such good American Universities staffed by white lecturers?

[@dat581]

@@rabbitclimbmountain Hardly. The USA still pumps out more high quality engineers than China does. Unfortunately for China their school system educates their students in such a way that they pass prescribed tests very well. Once they arrive in the real world they fail miserably. This is a major reason Chinese engine technology lags behind the West by over thirty years. The best they can do is make an equivalent to the GE F110 but without the quality of design and manufacturing. Does the West underestimate China? No. Does China overestimate itself? Most definitely.

[@davidkillens8143]

I was an aero engine technician for the Canadian Air Force in the 1970's, and the single thing you focused on when starting was the turbine temperatures.

[@imaysin97]

Now you're a cute doggo.

[@weaksupremacy3799]

@@imaysin97 😂

[@bluesclues132]

☺️😊

[@mtcnew8353]

The speaker assumes that China could only copy. However if the making of turbine blade involves many manufacturing know how that are considered top secrets by both US and Russia and are unavailable to anyone outside, the Chinese must have figured the secrets out by themselves. The research of the Chinese WS engine series was set up in the early 1990’s. So it took them almost twenty years to complete the development. No technological gap can be maintained forever.

[@jthunders]

He gives it away at the end, they bought two German companies to help them figure it out .

[@Mianhe]

@@jthunders And they credit it to China lmao, it all comes back to the Germans ig

[@junkeatng]

They used to say that about Japanese products during the 60s.

[@minus21334]

@@jthunders he merely stating that as speculationLMFAO. the whole turbofan development of china had been bugged by metallurgy rather than anyhting else. They sorted it out 6 years ago, which paved way for the ws-10 to replace all al31 turbofan in j11, j16, j10 and j20.

[@lesserspottedmugwump.363]

@@Mianhe Credit what to China? WW2 technology? Are you mental. Yes the Germans asked the enemy who basically lived in mud huts and were starving. “Please help us design a jet engine”. You can barely make the balls for a bic ink pen. Who are you kidding.

[@myronplichota7965]

The next time I buy turbine blades, I'll compare AliBaba's prices.

[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

😂😂😂

[@myronplichota7965]

@@Millennium7HistoryTech Your videos are great! I always learn thanks to your efforts.

[@JacobVahrSvenningsen]

My thoughts exactly :)

[@scottyfox6376]

I wonder if Wish is selling turbine blades yet ?

[@Sai-zu2hy]

I would highly suggest to taobao is much better

[@diggingmystyle]

Well...a lot of American military technology was developed in part by engineers from China or of Chinese descent.

[@Praetorian157A]

Ssh....nobody knows that except the chinese

[@ptaing8]

JPL is found by Chinese!

[@marvinduval]

A couple of years ago so visited Silicon Valley. When I was at the Google HQ, all I heard around me was people speaking mandarin.

[@marvinduval]

@Mico Hans America is very capable, but America has lost its way. And now it is unable to cultivate these talents at scale domestically, so this is what happens.

[@taiwan_sausage]

@@Praetorian157A cheif engineers or the founder of (1)JPL (2) first commercial plane of boeing (3)f-14 jet fighter (4) miniuteman iii are all chinese....

[@Zerpentsa6598]

Don't forget one of the co-founders of the Jet Propulsion lab was a Chinese, Chen Xuesen.

[@trikush3627]

@无冕9527 it's the same guy. Maybe the original poster has the incorrect name. He was the man that America didn't trust and was sent back to china.

[@gcyang2919]

@@trikush3627 In fact, US worried much that such talented person as Qian Xuesen will bring advancement in China and trying hard to prevent him to return back to China.

[@TK-pl9cu]

Chief Scientist of the Northrop YF-23 was also Chinese

[@user-pp9cl7zf4n]

​@@trikush3627 If I were the US, even if I didn’t trust him, I wouldn’t sent him back to china.

[@jzz4666]

Also, the father of Boeing is a Chinese called Wong Tsu

[@lamalien2276]

So, after 30 years, almost my entire lifespan, we finally have a new super power in the mix. We just kept underestimating the Chinese over and over again, and now here we are.

[@chahineyalla4838]

It was very clear to me that the USA, especially, kept underestimating its rivals, notably Russia and China. Fanboys kept saying "yes, they have X, but we are better in Y", not realizing that the Y list grew thinner every year. You know, I'm French. We used to be a big kid on the block, and now we sell Louis Vuitton bags.

[@unclejoeoakland]

@@chahineyalla4838 I think that's true in the public sphere but of course that isn't really where these matters are affected. Realistically, what was ever to be done? The Chinese are determined to gain something like parity and are willing to put as much resource into it as necessary. Even without industrial espionage, they might have independently created similar solutions or indeed different but valid solutions to the same engineering challenges. Now the questions are, will they likely to pull equal to the US and allies? Do we want to prevent this? Do we have some means of accomplishing this? Personally I think that it is inevitable unless we start altering our diplomacy; making alliances to create a sufficient counter to the resources and population of China, and fomenting independence movements within China to drain resources and political attention.

[@unclejoeoakland]

@@michaelkeller5008 There is so much wrong with what you have written that I hardly know where to begin. That said, I'm simply going to point out that Japan had invaded and annexed Manchuria and Korea by 1937. The US had pushed nobody into a corner; we refused to sell them oil. A meager gesture at that. The reason the Japanese attacked us was that their geopolitical ambitions would not tolerate a military power to rival their own on the pacific edge of Asia. Leading with "the US backed Japan into a corner" is objectively false, and a superb red flag for the value of your analysis.

[@unclejoeoakland]

@@michaelkeller5008 oh and it isn't asynchronic war. It's called asymmetric warfare. Asynchronic means not at the same time.

[@chahineyalla4838]

@@unclejoeoakland I think that one of the major factors in the West's ability to compete with China is industrial capacity. It seems quite obvious to me that out of two economically equal adversaries, the one with the factories is likely to prevail over the one with the banks in an all-out, world war-type conflict. China has grown powerful by attracting investment and growing its industrial base. It was probably a bad idea to organize this power and technology transfer in the first place, but not trying to revert it now that the writing is on the wall is beyond foolish.

[@oleksandraverchenko9920]

Ukraine was producing turbine blades for ussr. When I was in university ussr already had monocrystal blades technology. Chinese acquired motosych to get the engine technology. Now the deal is vetoed and gors to the court.

[@michaelschmid9567]

I also think, if the chinese can do now the full package, these comes from motosych. Well, blades is just one part. Of course a difficult part, but just one. I know, that Rolls Rolls and Pratt & Whitney for a long time bought blades from germany. Because they could not build the blades in that quality.

[@jensensean7118]

Motor Sich stake held by the Chinese through acquisition was confiscated by Ukraine govt, under US pressure. But China will not need Ukraine anymore now except for agricultural produce.

[@mosca3289]

A model of how to talk about complex subjects for a non-specialist audience. Great work.

[@Manbemanbe]

Of all the things I like about this channel, I think the fact that you don’t take yourself too seriously is the thing I like the most :)

[@falconeaterf15]

With age comes wisdom. Wisdom gives perspective. Perspective leads to an understanding of ones true place in the world.

[@syedahmed9323]

This guys a fantastic source of entertaining information, in a refreshingly down to earth format!

[@sweetieip]

I read some chinese media and according to them, Chinese had employed many Russian aviation engineers and scientist after disintegration of the Soviet Union. They also employed thousands of Ukraine engineers for the past 10 years. Chinese aviation companies also joint ventured with French companies in development of helicopters and engines. Few years ago, I heard they bought some old patent from Japanese Mitsubishi for ship diesel engine. China also focus in the development of turbofan engine technology especially the material science field for the past decade. I believe all these effort added up to the catching up in turbofan and related engine technology.

[@zhoma982]

AMERICAN has employed many Chinese and Indian scientists.

[@VidarrKerr]

All of China's tech is from Not the Chinese. It is embarrassing.

[@mkbtam2006]

Americans employ a lot of Germans after WW2 and a lot of Chinese and Indians now.

[@mkbtam2006]

Most of the American military technologies were developed from Germans

[@VidarrKerr]

@@mkbtam2006 Yep. Especially rocket technology. But, yes, almost 100% German.

[@urbandiscipline8858]

Thanks for explaining such a complex technology to us normal people.

[@joetemple533]

You sir, are a very underrated source of avionic information. Your graphics are top notch and you inform us in a way that is understandable to the layman.

[@kkhalifah1019]

Generally, when it comes to China catching up with Western technological superiority, it was never a question of "IF" in the first place. Since the beginning, it was only a question of "WHEN". The West is too arrogant to stop looking down at Asians, too proud to learn from underestimating the Japanese before.

[@jthunders]

Are the Arabs underestimating China too? Since you invented the zero and since then it’s all just everybody copy you

[@Bialy_1]

@@jthunders Arabs have nothing to do with the invention of zero or the decimal system, go and educate yourself if you do not want to end up in gulag... ;)

[@jthunders]

@@Bialy_1 yeah I know I was just pulling his chain.

[@simonbrown7455]

But up until now it has been true. The large majority of discoveries and developments have been from further developed countries, thats including Japan. Its not a matter of East and West or Asian and Barbarian. Wouldnt you be proud too though ? If your country is doing better at something than another country (i swear only kids care about this alot of the time). Anyway, it goes both ways. Asians have things they look down on others for.

[@aiGeis]

It's not a question of IF, but WHEN will Africans will become the most innovative, intelligent genetic cluster of humans and take us to the st- *bursts out in laughter*

[@kwatt-engineer796]

Thanks for your insights. You provide valuable information (not available elsewhere) to those of us who are interested in the engineering aspects of military aviation.

[@michaelofarrell488]

The Chinese are very smart people and them catching US is not shocking at all.

[@ce1474]

The only thing shocking is that the US was ever ahead

[@khunouslongshi2922]

Its co-equal now.

[@TAURENIO]

Engine technology is very complicated and it doesn't matter how smart is your people, it's need time to solve very complex problems. The only way to gain time is buy or still it, which is an speciality of them.

[@Coxman]

@linkzable that's expensive compared to stealing it. It's economics and quicker.

[@minus21334]

@@Coxman you cant steal turbofan engine "they all need the precision mechanic of a Swiss watch, while bearing the loads of a bulldozer"

[@Hahaha41241]

Well USA have being using international student for their progress anyway, there is not such a thing as one country people creating all new technologies.

[@gabrielmarian698]

The Visa Lottery.

[@User-nw37]

I think that the myths that “China can’t innovate” or “made in China is inferior” have been BENEFICIAL to China so far because it allowed China to keep developing under the radar. Despite the pervasiveness of this belief, China has been doing extremely well and it did not hinder China’s development at all.

[@thorH.]

It gave them the advantage that noone took the seriously and the US and even more the EU slept on their success.

[@mortarriding3913]

China is the world leader in my field. Has been for some time. They are in many other fields now. The point I woke up was the growth of DJI; now by far the largest and highest quality manufacturer of consumer level UAVs. And I think your problem runs deeper in Western culture. It's not just limited to industry. And the negative views of China are definitely rooted in a kind of subconscious racism/white supremacy. For example, there's still many military analysts who say that only now China can defeat Western forces in their region. Yet China did precisely that not only in Korea in the 1950s, but through the effective suppression of KMT stay behind operations that were burning their crops and sabotaging their economy right through to the early 1960s.

[@happyculater2923]

if they can only steal techonlogies from USA, their development will stop soon

[@thorH.]

@@happyculater2923 It wont be as rapid, but they used the stolen technology to catch up and educate their population. Rip the west, while it is discussing, weather we should say he she they them or whatever and work part time, taking drugs and drinking themselves to stupidity. It so fuking obnoxious. Culture does neither value entrepreneurship, nor getting a good education, trying to make something innovative happen.

[@mortarriding3913]

@@happyculater2923 the USA has been surpassed and is the one now stealing, with industrial espionage.

[@kittenastrophy5951]

I 've read an article about development of jet engines for the competition between YF-22 and YF-23 at that time. It talk about something like ceramic composite material for the rotor blades for the competitors. Very hard to recall my memory from the past 30 years.

[@Houthiandtheblowfish]

zirconium is an intresting material

[@zapszapper9105]

I studied gas turbines many years ago and it was nearly all described with lots of Maths. Both the fluid dynamics/ thermodynamics and the material science(Stress and Strains/ finite element analysis.etc etc. Guess what the Chinese are real good at besides business?

[@zapszapper9105]

Sheep lord the poms sold their RollsRoyce Avon jet engines to the Russians, who promptly reverse engineered them and used the design in their Migs. That must have cost the lives of more than a few US pilots in Korea a few years later .

[@zapszapper9105]

And cost more US pilots their lives in Vietnam 15 years after that.

[@EroticOnion23]

sheep lord, USA wouldn't even exist without using Chinese gunpowder to wipe out the Natives... Or European imperialism to steal the world's wealth...

[@Tounguepunchfartbox]

@@EroticOnion23 lol European gunpowder was almost nothing like Chinese gunpowder. And honestly that kind of shows an L for the Chinese. Failed to innovate and got conquered with something that was discovered there. Kind of stupid tbh.

[@EroticOnion23]

@@Tounguepunchfartbox then Chinese computers are nothing like western computers and uses feiteng chips, so China invented computers 😎

[@saderuscz]

Great video. And the Ceramic matrix composites (CMC) are future... this is why GE engines have so effective combustion. it's just a matter of time for Chines... I know from my practice, dozens of mechanical designers are working on projects. But not so in China. they do not count the numbers of designers, but the numbers of buildings that are up to the roof full of designers. I would also mention CFD tools.

[@MrMatmulan]

Man... your channel is amazing to people who want to learn more about military aviation and engineering nowadays... You could do a more in depth video on the calculations and logic behind some of the stuff, i think that is something that lacks on youtube unfortunately ( but anyways, congrats on the channel, its top quality content, and its also filled with funny parts, love the sense of humor ) Besides, ill try to remind myself to support you on patreon or subscribestar this coming june.

[@generalx5220]

nicely put "the precision and mechanics of a wrist watch, while bearing the loads of a bulldozer" what a neat way to describe a jet engine

[@AcciaioTemprato]

Great video as always! What about making a video to explain the jet engine and the inertia related issues in terms of packaging and dynamic behaviour? I think it's a tough thing managing this high-speed rotating beast..

[@bayadm]

"It would not really make sense to destroy a plane just to access the engine." legend says...!

[@ycplum7062]

The metallurgy and material science of turbine fans is a field that is still more Art than Science. There are so many variable, unknowns, and lack of margins that developing high performance turbine blades is closer to trial and error than simply applying a few formulas. More often than not, the science serves to explain why something works, rather than serve as a detailed roadmap. Science and experience (with a bit of intuition) mainly serves to provide a hint at avenues for experimentation. Chinese scientists and engineers are not stupid. What they lack is the experience and all the cumulated data from decades of successes AND failures.

[@Nls007]

Amazing summary. Thank you for taking the time to enlighten all of us :-)

[@jorgej5916]

We were always taught since younger age that "Never to Under Estimate your opponents". But it seems that in the Real Society we live in, we kept under estimate others, look down on others and at the same time kept hypnotized ourselves that we are the best in everything. Here we spent 100 billions and only 25 billions actually goes to the whatever projects/program and other countries like China they spent 30 billions and all 30 billions plus a few dollars more went into their projects. What do we suppose will happen in 20 years even we are 20 years ahead of them?

[@lifeisrough8747]

The WS-10 is derived from the CFM56. China purchased several cores during the 80s for research. It likely shares more design DNA with the F110 than AL31.

[@maninthemiddleground2316]

This is true. I remember there was a engine producer who had been hacked by supposed Chinese hacking group. I don’t think that this is a breakthrough. Just the mere fact the Chinese resort to hacking means they are at a disadvantage in original thought at least in Jet Engines technology. It doesn’t mean the US should stay still and sit back and relax but threat assessment should be accurate so that (battle) plans are accurate too.

[@federicoalonso7478]

China Airlines operates the CFM56 since the 80's...

[@jensensean7118]

That's true. AL31 was taken apart and reverse engineered, to some degree of success but not too succeful. There was some gossip that later China invested a large amount of money to a variant of the AL31's development and shared in the result. But as the Chinese alwaysdo and say: Walk on twain legs. The WAS 10 series has been originally deigned for the J-10, which first entered service in 1990s (but was powered with AL31), later when China becomes sufficiently developed in their own enginesk, they switch to home-made ones. You'll see that on Y-20 shortly, and also on C919 etc.

[@MH-lb4fo]

you are suggesting china copied. How do you copy metallurgy, which warplane engines are all about?

[@MASMIWA]

@@federicoalonso7478 FYI: China Airlines is a Taiwan carrier Air China is a PRC carrier

[@Joselaoo]

Not found anywhere else... Great video!

[@timh36]

Gotta love the name on the pilot helmet at beginning "shoot it". 🤔 when he flys with his buddies "fly it" and "get it" they make a formidable trio. 😉

[@amos325]

WS-10 is a good engine but old news, we have WS-15 and WS-20 now

[@eliashunt4213]

the ws15 has not been seen on any plane outside of some one off test use.

[@zhuzzir]

Well, thats damn strong words "...precison mechanics of a swiss watch, (all) while bearing the load of a bulldozer!" of an analogy. Striked me hard there as I paused the vid for a/or-few (silent) minute(s) of fondering. Well, thoughts 🌹

[@kundeleczek1]

Your content is very Information heavy, I'm impressed.

[@philips170t]

Another key technology in the development of an engine is the "bearings".

[@johnparrish9215]

Everyone needs to watch a little documentary here on KZbin called: The Engines that came in from the Cold. This might explain why the Chinese engines can suddenly run hotter and last longer doing it. I suspect the Chinese built a special steel mill. Or I could be completely wrong, not the first time.

[@HighestRank]

you're completely wrong. Hotter yes, but requiring a full rebuild after every ignition precisely because of that gimmick.

[@minus21334]

nah, the breakthrough is really just composite material advancement.

[@roryross3878]

@@HighestRank metallurgy clown

[@examplerkey]

I once watched a CCTV/CGTN documentary about how China went about to achieve this. It was quite interesting.

[@timtomten5285]

YES THEFT

[@yyw032840]

Incorrect! WS-10 was initiated from reverse-engineering CFM56 but not AL31. In addition, the supplemental material science is one of the most difficult part and cant be reversable.

[@redpillcanucklofi]

Wow technology changes so fricken fast lol. I think my favorite piece of tech was my first iphone...ahh such memories. Great job on your video!

[@user-zt5kj3yc8e]

100 years ago USSR was like China. Many things was reverse engeneered and then quantity passed to quality.

[@Choop4fun]

Yeah, if it was reverse engineered that means it was stolen from the U.S. in the first place through illegal espionage because they weren’t intelligent enough to design it themselves.

[@zuluwhiskey9049]

and Japan 40 years ago

[@ruud195]

@@Choop4fun Glad we have you. US and copy past in 1945.

[@user-zt5kj3yc8e]

@@Choop4fun Espionage was not in first place. First place was official and not official purchases, like with China now. Many things was officially buyed from USA. Ford officially builded steelworks and automobile factories in USSR. Were released Ford trucks. USSR officially purchased Christie tank and then its has evolved to T-34...

[@iamgreat1234]

In WW2, the Red Army were the first to reach Germany and many of German tech & blueprint falls under control of Soviet Union.

[@stavrostsitsopoulos2727]

I worked on many western gas turbine engines and the level of secrecy is mind blowing. The manufacturing processes used to build turbine blades and other components is impossible to replicate. Chinese and other nationalities from the east will never get anywhere close to even read a company procedures book, let alone have a look at a blueprint of the inner working of a modern military engine.

[@stavrostsitsopoulos2727]

@pm if you are referring to eastern European engines you have a point. My main comment was about the more advanced western engines, namely general electric, pratt and whitney and rolls royce. Also snecma and MTU, from france and Germany respectively.

[@M_Jono]

you are right if it was 20 30 years ago. I work with German company in special heating system , our Chinese branch supplied to Chinese aerospace and military for testing this kind of stress. you will be amazed how they come this far , just go to China and see your self how they become now.

[@stavrostsitsopoulos2727]

@@M_Jono thanks for letting me know. It is true the chinese made advancements, I have been to china once and I saw it with my very own eyes. Some technology will always leak to them, this is your example. That is why they buy companies like volvo and kuka robots so they can leapfrog and accelerate their R&D. It is a matter of time to catch up, but still believe they are not there yet, not 100%. Building a jet engine is more than the sum of its parts...

[@aungaisum8654]

@@stavrostsitsopoulos2727 don't underestimate China speed. Ws15 testing already a success. It's just a matter time for mass production. Actually China are leading in many advance technologies.

[@johnbodman4504]

Thank you for the information.

[@simonyip5978]

Gravity, aerodynamics, human capabilities, velocity, metallurgy, stress and everything else that effects or causes, prohibits or improves anything made by people doesn't change from one country to another. Gravity, energy, mass, propulsion, speed and how various elements interact and react doesn't differ in China, Malawi, Latvia or Canada or anywhere else, so because the same issues and factors and science is the same all around the world, then surely it follows that Chinese engineers, technicians, researchers, scientists will find a similar solution or design that Belgian or Greek or Australian or Egyptian or Brazilian or American engineers, technicians, researchers and scientists. The same methods, techniques, formula's, solutions and processes are employed by people involved in aerospace, aviation engineering, aerodynamics, aero propulsion etc regardless of where they come from. My point is, just like all bicycles have very similar frames, wheels, pedals etc, and just like all trousers, jeans and pants are all very alike. And just as every bridge, house, car, rifle, motorcycle helmet, pair of swimming goggles, gloves and laptops etc etc etc etc are usually based on very similar designs and layouts and formats, then it's not really surprising that Chinese weapons and military equipment is similar and sometimes almost identical to other countries designs. Aircraft experts agree that the j J-20 is not a copy of the F-22, regardless of what some people want to believe, and only laymen and casual observers will think that the J-20 is a copy of an American design. Just as the airliners of the world are hard for a casual layperson to distinguish, pilots, ground support crew, aviation enthusiasts and anyone involved in the building and maintenance of airliners can usually recognise individual models of different modern airliners. My comment might be slightly convoluted but I'm hoping to explain why most products are based on visually quite similar designs, there are reasons for that.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

Well I know that Iranians tried to copy the RD33, but it didn't work well, they upsized it and the weight gain out matched the durability, they down sized it and lost both trust and durability, eventually ended up with a high bypass turbo fan that could only power a medium cruise missile... then we stopped hearing even from that after a while... power plants are difficult engineering products, and it's not just jet engines, even a decent combustion engine takes some deep know how to develope and put into production...

[@justforever96]

tht is Iran, not China, big difference. And the point is that they _have_ done it somehow, so Iran's failure is hardly relevant, except to highlight how right China got it.

[@carniv0rous]

This is my favorite video so far...Great work!

[@kevinzhu6151]

Copy an engine is nothing like copy a gun or a tank, it takes not only the ablility to fully appreciate the whole mechanism of the engineering, but also the ability to fully develop a far better version independently! In other words, it is just a matter of time for china to catch up with american or russian engines, and it surprises no one if J20 can perform a hypersonic cruise in a near future, or maybe, NOW!

[@aungaisum8654]

Ws15 already on j20

[@festol1]

1.2k vs 2.1k word scripts according to your Skynet Cyberdyne made system.... Bring then on sir! :) We are much obliged :)

[@battwann88]

Because the top ambition of American kids is to be a Ytube star

[@miamijules2149]

I’ve wondered about this for a long time.... thank you.

[@anthonyxuereb792]

It was the failure of the fan blades on the Rolls Royce RB211 that was destined for the Lockheed L1011 wide body that sent RR broke if I'm not mistaken.

[@JacobVahrSvenningsen]

Thanks..! Now my new UltraLight concept fantasy fighter will have its BriggsStratton engine replaced with a micro jet engine

[@MM-wt2oo]

Can you plz do a more detailed video reviewing various chinese fighter jet engines with some comparisons to US / European engines, to the extent possible

[@toothrobber8076]

Could you do a video on the history of wind tunnels

[@aungaisum8654]

China got the best vertical wind tunnel

[@serious_shooter5872]

One for the algorithm. great content.

[@williamampuero2841]

Excellent insight

[@mikes2381]

"China has more people with an IQ over 120 than we have people." We figured out how to solve a lot of problems, why couldn't they? They even have the benefit of solving many of their problems 2nd after other people have already figured out how and made up new manufacturing techniques or materials to solve the problem. China has always put a lot of money into looking the best without having to be the best. For example, they send students every year around the world to compete at student competitions. Those students will have software and tools that most others don't have access to and they will have loads of faculty guidance and assistance. Most others don't have those advantages. That is not to say that they are cheating per se nor that they aren't very smart and very hard working students. China puts a lot of pressure on it's people to perform well and make amazing technology. Given their population, they have plenty of people happy and proud to rise to the challenge. Meanwhile, in America, you have the leadership leading us to deny our history, deny proven science, deny the people a living wage, deny decent healthcare costs, deny the people the right to vote and handicap all of our people and dumb us down. All for their own immediate personal gain. They can't see the forest through the trees and they can't see that the road they're putting us on is leading us exactly where they say they don't want to go. Many of them say they yearn for "the good old days". But those good old days were due to the people being able to have one working person and another at home most of the time. They didn't have as much anxiety and fear-mongering around them. They were well educated for the time, as far as they needed to be and did their jobs proudly. We need well founded and well thought out, honest and factually true education and lots of it if we're to remain at the top of the game.

[@isuruthiwanka9448]

hope China would succeed

[@charlesblithfield6182]

Fascinating. I saw.a film about Rolls Royce manufacturing of turbine blades years ago and wondered about how proprietary this tech would be. Even though they just showed the most basic things it seemed extremely complex process not easily copied.

[@minus21334]

ws-10 is actually derived from the CFM56 series....the problem that bugged their development was due to metallurgy.............which they resolved 5-6 years ago.

[@mijmijrm]

"there's nothing mysterious about the thermodynamics of a modern tube of ham"

[@alexlo7708]

WS-10 ia not a copy of Russian AL-31. But Its a transform of GE F-101.

[@michaelc7302]

Thanks for your honesty

[@suzukigsxfa9683]

Great channel. Undersubscribed, underrated.

[@nitroxide17]

It’s bound to happen at some point like you said. No one should blame a country for trying to obtain technology any way it can. It is key to power.

[@TangoLima1]

The Chinese WS-10 design is based on the Safran CFM56 civil engine, not the Russian AL-31

[@Dare2Blink]

Thanks for the video, great content. just discovered the channel and subscribed.

[@samuelforsyth6374]

hastelloy n and inconel 600 are good for molten salt nuclear reactors and turbine blades.. high nickel stainless steel is cool..

[@foxmulderms]

ws-10 is *not* a copy of al-31. Totally wrong there. al-41 reverse engineering is totally a wishful thinking on your part, too. China is invested on their engines for the last 4 decades. You think there will be no fruits of this. ?!?! :)

[@foxmulderms]

@@shanerooney7288 *everyone* has been known to blatantly and shamelessly copy military equipment in the past and *present*.

[@MattJonesGR9]

Back in the mid 2000's we had Chinese turbine blade castings for some RR work we were doing and the castings they supplied were awful. I bet they've since improved the quality.

[@xingyuan-1yang136]

China spent 100 million pounds in 1979 to purchase tech transfer of RR turbofan Spey Mk 202, the 1st jet engine in the world to reach MTBO of 10000 hours (engine service life is 20000 hours). However, the necessary equipment required to produce the engine was not part of the deal, because they were not made by RR, just like microchips makers do not make equipment making the chips, so China had to develop all the equipment itself, which took 3 decades. It was not until finally in early 2010s, when the Chinese licensed copy of Spey Mk 202, the WS-9, finally reached the same level of British engine. Although tech transfer shows the exact step by step instructions on how to build the engine, without the proper equipment, you still cannot make any despite knowing exactly how.

[@AnonymousAlcoholic772]

Seriously, love the introspection. Adds a more human, less HAL9000 touch. Run with it.

[@xinfuxia3809]

I’m guessing it’s the material high temperature strength. which is a trade secret. One can cut open a blade and see the structure under microscope. It would take years to figure out how to achieve that structure and millions or billions of dollars. This kind of research is not sexy in computer age, but still highly valuable.

[@avkk2314]

Also make a video on korean new fighter KFX.

[@jordanerhardt5038]

I second this.

[@vishvajitkumar9497]

i third this.

[@arpioisme]

Fourth this

[@XimCines]

Fifth this. I hope you find enough quality information because it is not easily found in KZbin.

[@Cartoonman154]

The sound is better in this video.

[@vishalyadav3816]

I didn't get any notification of this video I looked up into your channel myself why KZbin why 😒

[@richardwallinger1683]

super presentation . loads of technology offerings .no longer possible to keep them in the dark like mushrooms .

[@Instr]

Crap. WS-10 is based off CFM-56, an American civilian turbofan. The Chinese TVC technology likely benefited from a close look at Al-41, but the Chinese were working on TVC since the 1990s, and Chinese TVC design is distinct from Russian TVC design (Chinese TVC is two-segmented, designed for enhanced stealth by not deviating from the plane of the exhaust)

[@koonsiang0345]

Totally outdated. They are referring to a new version of WS10

[@koonsiang0345]

@@jack99889988 Go to Sinodefence website. There is a thread on Engines under the Air Force segment. There are engineers there who discuss all that

[@habddz]

im okay with this.i hate when people have a monopoly on knowledge, especially when one side has the ability to make things cheaper for the rest of the world. If china can produce the blades, the entire world can have better and safer aircraft technology at lower prices. The west are just trying to keep their aircrafts expensive for no reason. Jet fighters should have cost USd100K tops right now if we put effort in making these things cheaper, allowing citizens to go to work on jets.

[@speedstriker]

If Boeing had more competition, maybe then they'll start making planes and not just powered bricks.

[@fightefx]

Can you make a video about Embraer and Brasils Aeronautic strategy? That would be interesting. Jaguars, Tucanos and Gripen make it an interestinc ecosystem.

[@shenpanda3277]

ws15 ws19 no info?

[@cannonfodder4376]

3:46 "...they all need the precision mechanic of a Swiss watch, while bearing the loads of a bulldozer" I am so using this quote to describe jet engines from now on. A very apt description. I am not sure what, when or how the Chinese managed to bring the WS10 to a satisfactory level. We can speculate all we want but given the results its irrelevant. When one considers the vast amounts of both military and civilian engine technology available to them, vast amounts of R&D and industrial espionage, it was only a matter of time until they managed to create a good decently serviceable military turbofan. I would still rate them behind the Russians, Europeans and Americans but the gap has shrunk enough to be strategically and operationally irrelevant. Another informative video as always.

[@eliashunt4213]

Iirc correctly on some forum they said they used it on the twin engine fighter for quite some time first, presumably lack of confidence in it, before throwing it on the j10 single engine.

[@cannonfodder4376]

@@eliashunt4213 Yes it appears the WS-10s were used in J-11s until they were deemed good enough to be used in J-10s.

[@cannonfodder4376]

@God's Creature Satisfactory in the sense that it's no longer worse than the AL-31 which was their baseline. For a nation that used and made MiG-21 derivatives until a few decades ago, this is no small achievement. Undoubtedly work continues on the WS-10 as well as the WS-13 and WS-15. But they are no longer reliant the Russians.

[@cannonfodder4376]

@God's Creature The AL-31s still in use will still need parts and until WS-10 production can pick up enough to replace them, of course they will continue to get engines from the Russians. And in regards to the Su-35 order, engines and long term support ain't cheap. Maintenance is as expensive or more so than just the fly away price.

[@adriantataru7476]

Darn ur chanel is the best informed you deserve a bigger audience....I see chanels of neofits that dont know what they are talking about...are you an aeronautical engenier ? What specialty?

[@I_fuck_moms_of_CIA_trolls.]

You're wrong about jet engines. It's not the "design" of it that China had been playing catch-up with, but the manufacturing of it. Also, you're wrong about "guided missiles", because in many areas of guided missile tech, China is already ahead of the rest of the world. For example, the new Chinese medium to long range AA missiles have more than twice the range of their American counterparts, and are overall a full generation more advanced than the most advanced American equivalents, which is why starting from a couple of years ago, the U.S. has scrambled to start development of a new generation of its own medium to long range AA missiles to catch up with China.

[@ashokkumars7956]

The intro music and visuals are exhilarating and they go together very well. I think it should be given more time. 😘😘😘

[@stupidburp]

I think that in addition to the Russian engines and global industrial espionage the PRC used civilian engines to copy some technologies. The monitoring of engines for civilian aircraft such as the 737s they acquired is not very strict and buying spares is not unusual. Some have reported that recent engines for the PLA seem to have some features similar to the CFM 56 series used in some 737s. Of course the dimensions and pressures for military fighter aircraft will be very different but some of the components are similar. The PRC also has access to the latest CFM LEAP engines used on the 737 MAX and they were the first to ground that aircraft, an unusually safety conscious decision for the PRC which has historically been more risk tolerant. CFM is a joint venture between GE and Safran, which are among the best engine manufacturers in the world. I suspect that the PRC used more than just the Russian Saturn engines as a basis, but instead blended technology from multiple sources, both military and civilian.

[@LRRPFco52]

Yup. All that and long-term mole engineer spies within Pratt & Whitney, GE, and Rolls Royce-many caught and charged with espionage already, many recalled back to China in the past few years.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@vascocosta3267 Their airframe and avionics capabilities have improved dramatically after Lockheed sold them the tooling and program management systems for aircraft production. They have better airframe manufacturing capability than Russia now, in my analysis. Compare the skins and seam lines on the Su-57 vs J-20. Night and day.

[@Ni999]

Very sobering indeed. That said, I still have to give kudos for the creativity of the presentation where the weight issue included skinny feet and ankles on someone weighing only 50 kilos. And yes - bonus points for the painted toenails. 🤣

[@Millennium7HistoryTech]

😳????

[@Ni999]

@@Millennium7HistoryTech Really? Ok, 4:03 - _weight is a factor._ It wasn't the only gem in the video but it was my favorite.

[@maikbanner7552]

@ 6:42 -- The Doggie Bark just seconded your Hypothesis on the Microscopic Defects.

[@truthmatters5536]

Your information is ten years old. German is buying Chinese engine for several years already.

[@philchoy2885]

NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. THERE'S WILL , THERE'S A WAY. NOTHING CAN STOP THE SEAR DETERMINATION OF THE CHINESE PEOPLE.

[@brothergrimaldus3836]

Except the CCP....

[@AMERICANPATRIOT1945]

I'll believe this when I see China making and marketing viable turbojet and turbofan engines for global consumption.

[@jensensean7118]

China learnt the design and making of the turbofan engine in the 1960s by license producing jet engines of Russian model, then it also learnt quite a bit from the Britons by buying the patent of the engine for its version of the Fantom (MK202？), the Chinese model is WS-9, this started in the 1980s， it took China something like fifteen years to fully absorb the technology of that engine.

[@lukebrennan5780]

They bought the afterburning Spey 163-25 from RR and built a factory for constructing it. WS-9 is the Chinese built Spey.

[@arthurvandeman]

@@lukebrennan5780 turnkey factory built for speys around 1975 in xian at cost of $500m but it was mothballed cos ch did not have the requisite metallurgial science for the engines/blades (acc to a rr engineer visiting the xian facility - this was reported in the economist magazine at the time). this was the time of the cultural revolution when chinese scientific establsihment was in chaos the only exception being nuclear weapons reasearch which was protected from the chaos. ch effectively missed out on scientifc progress for almost a generation which mostly explains the failure to produce modern weapons sytems during that time (there are oher contrubutory reasons) ch later bought 2nd speys from uk which indicate that for some years ch still struggled to produce the spey but imho, ch eventually got 2 grips with the spey technology, poss some 20-30 years later (sepculation) but hat tech even tho' old was prob foundational? ch has had to do a lot of catching up in science and technology and seems to be cloing the gap fast, not least because of an enormous broad scientific r&d effort (they turned direction from focusing on quick-to market research, realsing there need to be a broad effort in basic and underlying technology front, not just niche commercial areas.

[@lukebrennan5780]

@@arthurvandeman I know that a Chinese built Spey was sent to Derby in May 1980 and passed the 150 hour type test. SGH says so in his book.

[@SeeLasSee]

China has more than enough info on western jet engines even for fighters. They know what will work eventually if they keep working at it. As such it is easy to justify the investment in some tinkering.

[@pratikpal5565]

Nice background

[@AR-bd5hb]

Every time there citys experience a little rain, flooding occurres. When they build buildings, they break. There military is the same.

[@aiGeis]

May I suggest that you keep the music volume much lower in subsequent videos, or at least keep it fixed? I had to turn the volume up to hear your enunciation and the rising music volume at times was startling.