The CHRISTIAN Apologist who Debates Atheists and Agnostics LIVE!

[@TheThinkInstitute]

I want to get a feel for who's watching. So if you're an apologetics newbie, leave me a thumbs-up 👍 in the comments. And if you'd consider yourself intermediate to advanced, leave me a Bible emoji 📖 in the comments. If you're an atheist, leave a 🚫.

[@DiegoRivera-qp8pe]

This is my nightmare. To be caught in a debate where I don't even understand how bad I'm losing.

[@LiveLXStudios]

I know, right? The host has lost it

[@Theo_Skeptomai]

Hello. I am an atheist. I define atheism as suspending any acknowledgment as to the reality of any particular god until sufficient credible evidence is presented. My situation is that *_I currently have no good reason to acknowledge the reality of any god._* And here is why I currently hold to such a position. Below are 11 facts I must consider when evaluating the claim made by certain theists that a particular god exists in reality. To be clear, these are not premises for any argument which _concludes_ there to be no gods. These are simply facts I must take into account when evaluating the verity of such a claim. If any of the following facts were to be contravened at a later time by evidence, experience, or sound argument, I would THEN have good reason to acknowledge such a reality. 1. I have never been presented with a functional definition of a god. 2. I personally have never observed a god. 3. I have never encountered any person who has claimed to have observed a god. 4. I know of no accounts of persons claiming to have observed a god that were willing or able to demonstrate or verify their observation for authenticity, accuracy, or validity. 5. I have never been presented with any _valid_ logical argument, which also introduced demonstrably true premises that lead deductively to an inevitable conclusion that a god(s) exists in reality. 6. Of the many logical syllogisms I have examined arguing for the reality of a god(s), I have found all to contain a formal or informal logical fallacy or a premise that can not be demonstrated to be true. 7. I have never observed a phenomenon in which the existence of a god was a necessary antecedent for the known or probable explanation for the causation of that phenomenon. 8. Several proposed (and generally accepted) explanations for observable phenomena that were previously based on the agency of a god(s), have subsequently been replaced with rational, natural explanations, each substantiated with evidence that excluded the agency of a god(s). I have never encountered _vice versa._ 9. I have never knowingly experienced the presence of a god through intercession of angels, divine revelation, the miraculous act of divinity, or any occurrence of a supernatural event. 10. Every phenomenon that I have ever observed appears to have *_emerged_* from necessary and sufficient antecedents over time without exception. In other words, I have never observed a phenomenon (entity, process, object, event, process, substance, system, or being) that was created _ex nihilo_ - that is instantaneously came into existence by the solitary volition of a deity. 11. All claims of a supernatural or divine nature that I have been presented have either been refuted to my satisfaction or do not present as _falsifiable._ ALL of these facts lead me to the only rational conclusion that concurs with the realities I have been presented - and that is the fact that there is *_no good reason_* for me to acknowledge the reality of any particular god. I have heard often that atheism is the denial of the Abrahamic god. But denial is the active rejection of a substantiated fact once credible evidence has been presented. Atheism is simply withholding such acknowledgment until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. *_It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones._* I welcome any cordial response. Peace.

[@zedmann1680]

It’s been a month since you posted this, and no response has been given. To be fair, it’s a lot to respond to, but I’d at least expect some lazy sophistical quip by now.

[@francsiscog]

I love these conversations. Would you guys be able to raise the volume for the guests?

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@francsiscog thank you. I do that when we turn them into clips. However I’m not sure how to do that when it’s live.

[@timcollett99]

Genuine question: Do any of you know of literally anyone who has come to accept theism as a result of presupposional apologetics? I get that it appeals to people who already believe as it provides a more robust defence, in so far as it is obfuscatory by design and requires at least a slightly beyond laymans knowledge of philosophy to see through, but you must know how wildly unconvincing this is to someone who doesn't already believe, right?!

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Yes, I do know someone. If you want to defend your non-Christian position, you are welcome to join our next debate stream.

[@timcollett99]

@@TheThinkInstitute Seriously? As in, they were a non-believer, and then presup convinced them to become a theist?!

[@timcollett99]

@@TheThinkInstitute And for the record, no, I have zero interest in spending any meaningful amount of time with someone lambasting me about "grounding" logic and knowledge whilst completely ignoring their own inability to do so. Strikes me as about as much fun as putting forks in my eyes.

[@piage84]

@@TheThinkInstitute first come up with a defence of the the first premise for TAG. Once you guys finally can provide a justification on why god is the necessary precondition for intelligibility then we can talk. And no, the impossibility of the contrary doesn't work. It is just a lazy way to say you have no idea but still trying to sound smart.

[@piage84]

@@timcollett99 100%. Talking to a presup is useless. You can explain all you want why they argument fails and when cornered they play the never ending chain of "how do you know this, how do you know that?" And if you asked them, the answer is "my daddy told me so I can't be wrong" . Imagine giving the same answer to them. They would lose their mind! Lol Presup is kindergarten level apologetics. Probably on par with Muslim apologetic

[@brendandowner7090]

As no believer in any gods presupposing a god is the MOST unconvincing

[@TheThinkInstitute]

As a Christian I’d like to know what proof you can offer that you are an atheist.

[@LiveLXStudios]

@@TheThinkInstitute pfft. That’s hilarious as a response

[@lancegab]

@TheThinkInstitute It'll be similar to the evidence you can give that you believe in Christianity. It'll be by behaviour. Another easy test would be to use words to commit the only "unforgivable sin" according to Christianity.

[@brendandowner7090]

Totally unchallenged by any of the arguments from the theist side of the debate

[@Th3BigBoy]

He sounds so epic and so angry that I couldn't help but chuckle. 11:45

[@TheThinkInstitute]

I laughed too, but I had to cut him out. Can’t have swearing.

[@piage84]

Why you are so obtuse? Yes, if I want to be convinced of something, the evidence needs to convince me. Yes, I'm the judge of whether the evidence is convincing. If evidence doesn't convince me, I can't decide that I now believe in the thing in question

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.

[@harlowcj]

If you are the judge, then you seem to be presuming that a "you" exists. And this you've already used a Christian presupposition. Start over.

[@piage84]

@harlowcj oh boy .... Imagine being so "smart" to believe that knowing to exist is a Christian only presupposition. Lol To be a presup you really need to be very special kind of person hey? :)

[@harlowcj]

@@piage84 What does "smart" mean, without borrowing presuppositions from a Christian worldview? Challenge level for piage84...impossible.

[@piage84]

@harlowcj please, please, please, continue explaining me what you think presup is. You are absolutely entertaining. Please "educate" me :D

[@JohnSpencer90]

Wow, what does born again even mean , and what is the evidence that someone is born again?

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@JohnSpencer90 Read 2 Corinthians 5:17 and John 3.

[@JohnSpencer90]

@@TheThinkInstitute I’m not sure how reading Corinthians or John would help me determine if someone is 'born again.' I spent many years reading them over and over until it eventually dawned on me that I was searching for something I wanted to be true, but the evidence simply wasn’t there. So, I’ll ask again: Is there any reliable evidence that anyone can observe to indicate that someone is 'born again'-whatever that means to you?

[@LiveLXStudios]

@@JohnSpencer90 because he can’t actually define it

[@GN5X5]

These are brilliant, you debate these guys so respectfully, you are like Jay Dyer but without the bad language and mockery ✝️

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Haha-praise the Lord for that. Thanks for watching. More to come.

[@igormelnichuk4095]

Brother, way to be firm and not taking any nonsense. Absolutely appreciate this. Praise the Lord

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Thanks for watching and for the encouraging words, Bro.

[@vuho2075]

What God? What is this nonsense?

[@bboynewsboy991]

Thank you for what you're doing. It's beneficial to me and I'm paying attention to what you say. Could you pray me? Pray for my salvation? Im one of those ones who wants to believe but doesnt. Ive spent the last few years trying to be convinced by watching guys like james white to guys like john lennox. Sometimes things seem more certain to me, and other times im discouraged because im just not sure.

[@Jong-p3p]

Nature cannot create life from non life. So our existence requires a Creator from the beginning.

[@MrJamesdryable]

Using that logic, the creator also MUST have a creator.

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@MrJamesdryable Do you think Christians believe that God is part of nature?

[@TheThinkInstitute]

You're exactly right. And God, not being part of nature but transcending it, does not need a creator. He is the creator of all things (John 1:3).

[@MrJamesdryable]

@@TheThinkInstitute You've just made an assertion with absolutely no proof.

[@evanwarwick-f8p]

@@TheThinkInstitutewhat’s your evidence that god is not a part of nature?

[@btrade12003]

Are there presups who are flat earthers, or hold a contrary view to young earth creationisn?

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Not sure

[@masbro1368]

I want to ask. My questions... 1. The reality that we can see right now is that in this universe there are trillions of trillions of planets and galaxies. If there are countless trillions of trillions of planets... maybe not only planet Earth has living creatures inhabiting it...? For example, if there are a trillion other planets that have living creatures like Earth and its inhabitants are various types of non-human creatures, would Jesus also be God on those one trillion inhabited planets...? 2. The real facts that we can know right now... the earth is approximately 10 million km, the sun is 1.3 million times as big as the earth, and there is a star called U Scuty that is tens of billions of times as big as the sun . If the celestial bodies were super massive in size like that, the number in the trillions would be uncountable. How big do you think God the Creator is, bro...? Maybe God is only as big as the man Jesus...? 3. According to scientists, the universe is more than 13 billion years old, whereas according to historians, Adam and Eve only existed about 7 thousand years ago. Based on this science... maybe the universe has been empty without any living creatures inhabiting it for more than 13 billion years...? So what was Jesus doing for 13 billion years before there were humans, Adam and Eve...? Please answer me!!!!?!!!

[@TheThinkInstitute]

Great questions. Jesus has received "all authority" in the heavens and on the earth (Matthew 28:18). Therefore He is Lord of each and every planet and over every star in the universe. Amazing, right? Jesus is the second Person of the Divine Nature. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As to size, God is bigger than the whole universe. “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built" (1 Kings 8:27). And God is the creator of every planet and heavenly body. "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him" (Colossians 1:16). I hope that's helpful.

[@masbro1368]

@@TheThinkInstitute The reality is that God created trillions of trillions of planets spread across trillions of trillions of galaxies. The biggest possibility is that God also created other creatures with high intelligence besides humans who live spread across trillions of trillions of other planets. For example, there is creature A, creature B, creature C living on planet A, planet B, planet C... the question is... Who is the God of these creatures? 2. You say God is bigger than the universe, then become the human Jesus who measures less than two meters. This sounds absurd. Can your God become another human being besides Jesus, Sri Krishna, Zeus, John, Kevin or an animal or plant? If God became human, what consequences would there be from this event? If the sun became a man, would there be any consequences of this event? 3. According to scientists, the age of the universe has reached 13.5 billion years. Based on the discovery of many fossils, according to scientists, 250 million years ago there were dinosaurs and there were no humans. What was Jesus doing billions of years before humans existed? What did Jesus do during the time of the dinosaurs? What is your God doing? Please answer my questions.

[@piage84]

Omg Caller: since I don't believe god exists, I believe every Christian is faking it Host: oh so you are admitting you were not a real Christian. Please note how the Christian has to spin the caller's words in order to convince himself and the audience that the caller was not a real Christian.

[@nocup8692]

This was debate bro gotcha. You admitted! You said it! You said you were fake! See audience he’s fake! I on the other hand am real. My evidence? Well, what else would explain logic? I’m not sure what would explain logic so god. Hmmm where have we heard that one before? Every scientific discovery pushes back the god explanation to the point where it’s now, what made logic? If there is a satisfying answer for that it will be, why is there something rather than nothing. See, god.

[@piage84]

@@nocup8692 presuppers are hilarious. They basically admit defeat on the evidence for god so they need to come up with sophistry to tell themselves they are right. They love TAG and after all these years they still don't know how to defend the very first premise of the argument

[@nocup8692]

@@piage84 agree. I’m glad I left Christianity before I was exposed to presupp. I would have been so cringe with it, trying to win arguments. I absolutely hate script following. We’re going to have a discussion about theism but we have to do it according to this formula. We can’t just have an open dialogue. Or we can, but at first hint of ceding ground I’ll retreat to a script where I’m safe and secure. It feels less about defending the god of the Bible and more about defending a non biblical script. Because

[@jeffbalog5161]

The Christian spun nothing he used logic against the atheist. Caller said he was a Christian,than says he don’t believe in God ,than says everyone who believes in God is faking it. Logically this means he was a fake Christian from the get go, and look no words were”twisted”.

[@nocup8692]

@@jeffbalog5161 let’s use an analogy. Say there were a group of people who actually thought if they did some ritual they were an actual vampire. They really believed it. And this guy joins them. Later is departs as he concludes people cannot become actual vampires. Then a person calling himself a vampire says “see, he admits he was never a vampire.” Yes, and you aren’t either.

[@chrisf4268]

God is the definition of pure nonsense. Something is convincing when it convinces you. This video starts in a very silly place.

[@Certaintyexists888]

What is your ultimate authority regarding epistemic justification?

[@JohnSpencer90]

@@Certaintyexists888 Your question " What is your ultimate authority regarding epistemic justification?" is not clear. Rephrase and try again, and keep the language simple so everyone can take a shot at responding.

[@Certaintyexists888]

@@JohnSpencer90 Was I asking you?

[@JohnSpencer90]

@@Certaintyexists888 My bad. However, The temptation to unmask someone who is obviously trying too hard to sound more learned than they are was just too tempting.

[@debayomanuel]

1:13:20 lol 😂… he’s gonna cry

[@debayomanuel]

5:52 lol he doesn’t know what it means to be born again but he said he was a Christian 😂

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@debayomanuel yeah it’s sad. Pray for him!

[@MartyHarrison-cx4gu]

if someone asked me how did I come to the conclusion I had no evidence for God , I would say if somethings claim for existing was based on nothing but claims then of course there is no evidence just claims. The universe question is the one christians love to use . But again to say God did it is just a claim ! We don't know how universes are created or how. god would be created. That of course leads into the worst claim the contradiction of nothing can create itself oh except a claimed God

[@metalfather8139]

wow these atheist biggest problems are with people and what they believe instead of what they know. its sad

[@solideowarrior474]

Good stuff brother

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@solideowarrior474 thanks! God is good!

[@jeremiahcampana]

Lol it's always the atheist who loses his mind in these conversations. Clearly projecting because they are feeling convicted and don't like it.

[@TheThinkInstitute]

@@jeremiahcampana thanks for watching Bro!

[@MrJamesdryable]

We lose our mind because trying to reason with a Christian is like trying to reason with a pot plant.

[@BenXaviour-vr4mz]

Have you ever thought maybe you are the pot plant

[@lancegab]

​@@BenXaviour-vr4mzDeep, bro

[@JohnSpencer90]

So, why do you think Atheists are "feelin convicted" ?