The Cones + Types of Colorblindness

[@rahulgandharva7325]

Hey, this video is great. As someone who is colorblind I never truly understand the different types until this video. Thanks for all the help.

[@Chromaphobe]

Glad it was helpful!

[@idk-sk3hg]

I love this video! its so hard to find a good explanation for tritanomaly colourblindness and its great that i could finally get one!

[@Chromaphobe]

No kidding, it really is the forgotten middle child. So little research committed to it.

[@ninad1130]

Came here from Reddit. The video was really informative.Thanks for making it!! I now might be able to explain why I'm colourblind!

[@Chromaphobe]

If your friends are like my friends, they won't care why you are colorblind, they'll just care what color their shirt is. 😁

[@ninad1130]

@@Chromaphobe It is how it is. The first question I always get when I explain that I'm not "totally" colourblind is "What colour is xyz object?" I'm sure that's universal though😂

[@maciejzajaczkowski4965]

Nice videos - quick note - the overlap between the red and green cones in colour typical people is actually quite important for giving resolution and accuracy in distinguishing the red green spectrum - if you further increased it, then they would not have even better colour vision - just more equally space colours and perhaps less resolution

[@Chromaphobe]

Hiya, thanks for watching. Like I said (and now I'm very glad I said it!)... it was "a super reductive statement that I will definitely regret saying later", haha. If my memory serves, evenly spaced opsins would lead to a flatter wavelength discimination function, but one with a lower average value in the range of 400-700nm. So while we could arguably see more than our standard 1 million colors (because the peak amplitudes of the r-g opponent function would be much larger), we would not have the very resolute wavelength discrimination (low valleys) at specific wavelengths that [as you say] many evolutionary biologists claim to be a benefiical specialization for our [previous] environment. I've been meaning to model this, because I haven't found a good diagram of the opponent process curves in anomalous trichromats...

[@maciejzajaczkowski4965]

Your videos are very interesting - I have already subscribed and I heard you mention that you will buy enchroma once you reach 1000subs. You did mention you are a protan; I think you should read into the glasses if you are a protanOPE as I understand that they cannot 'split' cone sensitivities for people lacking them (AKA dichromats - like yourself?). - I like that you approach the fascinating topic of 'colourblindness' in a very scientific way and take down those annoying myths with iron logic and fact. I find CVD quite interesting and have created a colourblind simulation lamp that shows normies how protanopes see colours - all you need is pure green and blue LEDs (no other wavelengths especially RED) and the simulation comes out surprisingly good - I would be really curious for you to try building such a lamp and making a video on how it changes colours for you - would you see no difference? P.S. I am mildly deuteranomalous which is interesting in that I can't make out the numbers in ishihara plates very well and can see all the reverse tests but don't have any issues in everyday colour recognition - I don't know how this works but I guess I'm just lucky?

[@Chromaphobe]

As a probable dichromat, I would have no effect from the glasses. However, diagnosis for dichromacy vs. Anomalous trichromacy is difficult and requires anomaloscope testing, which I've never done. So there is a chance I'm just a strong protanomal. The lamp sounds interesting. Maybe you could send me some photos? Also, mild deutans usually claim they have no practical effect from their CVD. Must be nice... 🙄 Thanks for giving me some action on my channel 😊

[@maczajsci7080]

@@Chromaphobe Have you considered doing an anomaloscope test then? It sounds like a useful tool, are they expensive? As for the lamp: I have plenty of photos, however I do not know how to send them to you - do you use facebook messenger or something else so I can send you a private message? You are quite right about mild deutans having little impact from their CVD. For a long time I have realised that the majority of people who can't pass the Ishihara test seem to not have any problems with colour in daily life - it turns out about 70% of those people are mild/moderate deutans. Also mild deutans seem to have a unique colour dimension: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4498734.stm sro.sussex.ac.uk/id/eprint/52520/4/Bosten05CurrentBiologyFinalAccepted.pdf Also, I have done extensive comparisons of colour naming for subtle shades with color normals and discovered that there is indeed some subtle difference such as the point between red/orange and brown, green and yellow, and also cyan being perceived as more or less desaturated.

[@kouzerumatsu8152]

​@@ChromaphobeThere is a video that demonstrates the colorblindness vision with RGB lamps kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4rFlatqfpyGisk

[@seets.8]

I keep watching these videos when I have down time... this one is definitely my favourite! Is there a way to tell if one has dichromacy vs severe anomolous trichromacy? I would be SO curious to know which I have. I seem to experience almost identical colour vision to you as well, have you worked out exactly what you have?

[@Chromaphobe]

There is a way, but not something you can do through a screen (which is why none of these online screening applets ever indicate protanopia vs. protanomaly). The surefire way is with an anomaloscope, but those aren't the most common tool in the optometrist's office, so people don't tend to bother except for research or job clearance. I'm on the stronger side of strong protan and for all practical purposes, I identify as a protanope, but I'm not 100% certain because I've never had a go with the anomaloscope.

[@seets.8]

Well there you go, thanks for the learning!

[@weeblis]

Hey I just found your channel from r/colorblind! Edit: just realized I got 420 nm, snoop dogg is watching over me Edit2: nvm i have weak 420 :(

[@hidebehind3565]

Love your videos! One question though, is there any way to find which I have, protan or protanomaly? Due to the recent situation (ehem, Covid, ehem) having a professional test is kind of hard, so is there any online test that can be used as a guide or a rough estimation? After the lockdown I am thinking of getting tested for it too if a test that is capable of differentiating protan from protanomaly exists. The only idea I have is that I constantly get "severe" so it is either a severe protanomaly or protan.

[@Chromaphobe]

Differentiating dichromacy and anomalous trichromacy is hard. The labels of 'mild/weak', 'moderate' and 'strong/severe' are completely phenotypic, meaning they are derived empirically (through testing), and depending on the test, you won't always get the same strength. They are inexact and unquantified. Yes, 'strong' can mean protanopia or protanomaly. With numbers from some old polls on reddit, I imagine about half of 'strong' protans have protanopia. I talked with the maker of ColorBlindCheck about this and he confirmed that the score from that test (or any online test) cannot give a good indication of this. You do need a anomaloscope test to confirm it. However, if your score score in ColorBlindCheck is over 95/100, then chances are good you are a dichromat (protanopia), or at least your protanomaly is strong enough that you are an obligate protanope (dichromatic for all intents and purposes). The only reason some might NEED to know is deciding if enchroma glasses may work for them. But Enchroma confirmed for me that their glasses do not work at all on dichromats and even obligate dichromats (maybe with ~1nm between their L/M opsins) also have negligible effect from the glasses. So get

[@hidebehind3565]

@@Chromaphobe Thank you for the answer, cleared a lot of thing for me :D

[@VariantAEC]

As a passive radio frequency vision observer, I can tell you that you are probably not as evolved as I am... though sometimes relying mostly on that visual system instead of navigating via GPS means I wind up at the wrong medical complex just because it glows brighter than the medical complex I'm supposed to be going to (right next door thankfully, so I wasn't late).

[@xaulaura]

Great video. My kid is too. Have you tried glasses for color correction? He is only 5 i think its too soon. My affect him if work. He's the vrughtest kid in is kinder garden class by far. Well mostly 2020 he stayed with me i have free time to take care of him. Any thoughts on the glasses? Check my videos with qled tv colorblind mode. I can record with total darkness any video you want to see if it makes any difference. He says brighter colors but dont play much attention, although a cousin of him also is colorblibd and said without knowing filter was on, that it was crazy great colors. Really enjoyed it.

[@Chromaphobe]

I have not tried the glasses, because they do not work - at all - for dichromats like myself (protanopia/deuteranopia), which is about 1/4 of colorblind people. I would not consider the glasses until he is older anyway. He probably doesn't fully understand that he is missing out on anything yet. I'd wait until he starts to get jealous of normal color vision, which would probably be closer to 10 years old. The best thing you can do is to always be cognizant of colours in his life, and predict situations where he could be having trouble. Digital color "correction" filters can definitely make things pop, but they aren't the most universal tool. They work entirely different than the glasses, too. The two can't even be compared.

[@idontlie6373]

Is achromatomaly a legit colorblindness?

[@Chromaphobe]

This is such a loaded question that I was definitely not even mentioning it in this video, but I am excited to do an expose on it soon... The term itself is bunk. Tracing the etymology back to about 2008 and you arrive at the code of a lazy programmer, who actually later admitted to making up the term, and claiming in a forum later that he should really take care of that mistake before it gets out of hand. Well... it got out of hand, because now it outweighs the proper terms on google. The simulators that have an option for achromatomaly also use a piece of code that was hacked together as a linear interpolation of achromatopsia and normal vision. The result is similar to whats properly known as "incomplete achromatopsia", and some argue that it is also decent representation of blue-cone monochromacy in some conditions. However, achromatomaly, strictly speaking, doesn't exist.

[@idontlie6373]

@@Chromaphobe Thanks!

[@shaungerald23]

If someones opsin was genetically modified to where the color wavelengths were equally apart, what would someones eyesight be like? What colors would they see? Or would they just see better? Because honestly, why are the red and green wavelengths so close together to begin with? Why aren't they naturally equally apart? Also... why are Protans and Deutans so similar with what they see? When one is lack or no red and the other lack or no green, shouldn't one be seeing actual red and the other green? Another question. Why isn't there two versions of the blue/yellow cone deficiency like there is with the red/green?

[@Chromaphobe]

Great questions! 1. If our cones were evenly spaced such that the M cone was shifted to the S cone, we'd see less colors in the yellow-orange-red area and more colors in the blue-green area. They'd probably see more colors overall but maybe not in a way that helps us survive since that high color density in the yellow (brown) area is very evolutionarily (many different theories why). 2. The green and red cones are close because they used to be the same cone. When mammals evolved among dinosaurs, they were mostly nocturnal so they lost 2 of their 4 cones. Then when they became diurnal again it became useful to have a third cone again so we evolved it back, but something has to evolve from something else in small steps so that's what's happening now (or maybe it's "done") that the cones are slowly separating. 3. You can compare protans and deutans graphically by looking at their colors of confusion and see how they are much more similar to each other than tritanopia. Saying that one is lacking green and the other red is not true. They are lacking those CONES, but when you destroy that red-green channel either way, what you are left with in either case is ambiguously red and green at the same time, to BOTH deuteranopes and protanopes. So when simulating it for color normals. They can be made to look the same or can be made to look different, it's the same effect to the color normals. I'll do a video on these simulations. 4. There are four types, but the fourth is purely theoretical because there are no known cases of it and no known mutation likely to happen. Its called tetartanopia (or tetartanomaly), literally meaning "fourth type". It is to tritanopia what deuteranopia is to protanopia but only if you are thinking about color mathematically. When you think about it biologically, I THINK it's impossible but I'm not sure.

[@shaungerald23]

@@Chromaphobe Thanks for the response. Appreciate it. I look forward to that video on the simulations. Perhaps a theoretical video on what one would see if the cones were evenly spaced out?

[@microwavetacos8142]

If pretty much all the tests ignore tritanomaly how can I know that I don’t have it 🥴

[@Chromaphobe]

It's mainly the older (and by virtue more prominent) tests that ignored it. Here are some tritan tests that are used clinically: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_university_test en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnsworth%E2%80%93Munsell_100_hue_test vision2020lvrc.org.hk/colour-vision-assessment-equipment/233-hrr-standard-pseudoisochromatic-test-730006.html

[@microwavetacos8142]

Chromaphobe, well I did do some online tests lots of times, including fm100, and I pretty frequently get a mild tritanomaly result, I know it’s not accurate, but I don’t really want to go to ophthalmologist because even if I have it it’s not severe, plus I asked my friend to do these tests and he did fine on the same monitor, so I guess I’m just gonna assume I’m a bit colorblind 🥴

[@Chromaphobe]

Exactly. There is really no need to confirm a mild tritan suspicion except for your own curiosity or mental health.

[@microwavetacos8142]

Chromaphobe, that’s what I thought, the only thing that’s a bit concerning is that tritanomaly can develop with age since it’s mostly acquired, and I’m only 18 🧐