The Constructed Languages of JRR Tolkien (Feat. Lindsay Ellis) | It’s Lit

[@caiscorner2675]

Tolkien saying "my personal aesthetic" made me laugh, the internet has ruined words for me I'm now just imagine Tolkiens Pinterest board

[@tomroadrunner87]

That's called "The Silmarillion."

[@serenityq26]

i dont get it

[@yabancosplay]

This made me laugh way too much omg, his Pinterest board X'D

[@alex0589]

Fun fact: « Pinterest » is elven for « large clusterfucky tool of homogenization of cheap design » I think

[@TWOFACETORCH]

Funny that same phrase stuck out to me. A million various youtubers flashed through my mind and the image of Tolkien as one of them will now never be gone.

[@otakuribo]

"Don't be ashamed of that 'secret vice.' Post that cringe." ~Lindsey Ellis, 2020

[@mrwalldantdvvhj716]

Angelina probably wrote that line, I saw Nearly the same thing tweeted by her like a week ago and she does write and edit for Lindsay so 🤷‍♂️

[@basinox]

And that, children, is how weird fetishes are born

[@isabelasabbatini4431]

I'd wear a t-shirt with that on it. In sequins.

[@gabe_s_videos]

I prefer the way Joseph Campbell put it: "Follow your bliss." Using "cringe" as an adjective is a trend that REALLY needs to die out. It's gross and it makes people ashamed of being themselves (and more often than not, it's used as an ableist slur against people with autism). Let's please stop leaning into it.

[@Bee-nw6df]

Gabriel Schleifer if you haven’t yet, contrapoints has a p great video exploring cringe. It’s a v widely used word & applied in many different ways. In most contexts, it’s not a slur

[@TeaDrivenDev]

One important bit of information missing here that I think is required to understand both why Tolkien liked inventing languages *and* actually had the skills to do it the way that he did is the fact that he only was a fantasy author on the side, and professionally served as a linguistics professor in Oxford for almost 35 years.

[@TheBebuchis]

Yeah, he's also the THE reason why beowulf is selected to be taught in colleges today

[@marieroberts5458]

@@TheBebuchis "Beowulf, the Monster and the Critics", Tolkien's seminal work and what put him on the map as the foremost scholar on ancient British literature (what was left of it).

[@gamuhnerdu4759]

He was interested in languages long before that. He became a philologist BECAUSE of his interest in linguistics and anglo saxon history.

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

“You go Frodo. You flex those foreign language credits.” I lol’d

[@Xondar11223344]

I'm imagining Hobbits learning Elvish at Michel Delving University. Go Badgers!

[@princessthyemis]

That's so cool to hear Tolkien actually recite some of his language. That little section sounds absolutely beautiful.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Search KZbin for old interviews with him and his own recordings. He did a fair few. You can even hear him reciting the Ring Verse or do a dramatised reading of Gollum and Bilbo in an excerpt from the Riddles in the Dark chapter of The Hobbit. ;-)

[@crows2808]

Nerd DNA is inherited directly from the line of Tolkien. So much nerdry is descended from his "secret vice". The primordial cringe.

[@Painocus]

@@1090Ideas: People seem to forget that the guy who wrote Conan the Barbarian died the year before The Hobbit came out. Fantasy nerds definitivly existed before Tolkien's work.

[@christianbjorck816]

@Painocus Sherlock Holmes has them both beat in terms of nerdy fandoms. Those books came long before both Howard and Tolkien, and you had fan clubs, people travelled to London just to see Holmes house - when it wasn’t there London had to build it. Doyle did sort of invest modern forensics and he did create a ”language” in the sign of four. The rage when Doyle killed of Holmes is also something I do see echoed today.

[@adrianmedeiros8431]

I know right? Dude singlehandedly created one of the most lucrative genres of fiction in human history

[@hughlittle2361]

The Ur-Cringe, as it were.

[@leonbrooks2107]

My grandmother once had a conversation with Tolkien when he was on holiday in West Wales. She always said that she spoke to him in English and was shocked when he replied in Welsh but by all accounts he was fluent in not only modern Welsh but also medieval Welsh.

[@Omnilatent]

If you like this, I highly recommend reading Carpenter's biography on Tolkien. My fav part was him debating in Old Greek in class

[@-Anjel]

Tolkien was searching for inspiration from European languages and when he came across Finnish he wrote to his friend “It [discovering Finnish] was like discovering a wine-cellar filled with bottles of amazing wine of a kind and flavour never tasted before. It quite intoxicated me.” He taught himself Finnish in order to read Kalevala, which is the Finnish National Epic. Lord of the Rings has a lot of commonalities with Kalevala. Tolkien also translated part of Kalevala to English, the song of Kullervo.

[@brooksboy78]

The Kalevala feels more akin to the Silmarillion than LOTR imo.

[@servantofmelian9966]

He also spoke Swedish (and possibly all the Scandinavian languages)

[@linajurgensen4698]

@@servantofmelian9966 We don’t know if he actually spoke these languages, but he was definitely studying old Norse and nordic folk tales.

[@servantofmelian9966]

@@linajurgensen4698 Agree. But I suspect he spoke all of them, and Old Norse, to at least some extent. --EDIT-- Although it occurs to me, if he did speak Norwegian, how familiar he was with the various dialects. And I understand from a usually reliable source (RailCowGirl, who is Norwegian), that there are many.

[@korganrocks3995]

@@servantofmelian9966 He knew enough Swedish and Dutch(iirc) to complain about the first two translations of Lord of the Rings, and write a sort of guide for future translators. Might sound a bit much, but having been exposed to the insanity that is the original Swedish translation I completely understand; the translator had such a high opinion of his own skills as a linguist and poet that he straight up changed certain songs, poems, names etc in order to "improve" them! 😄

[@ilikebirds7748]

"Don't be ashamed, post that cringe" is a strangely encouraging sentiment lol

[@simeonteitelbaum3673]

An artist has no other choice but mediocrity

[@gabe_s_videos]

Kinda backhanded IMO.

[@ilikebirds7748]

@@gabe_s_videos I understand why you feel that way. Personally, I don't like the word "cringe" either and keep it out of my vocabulary when referring to art. I only found Lindsay's words encouraging in the sense that she's taking power away from a sentiment used to shame artists and is poking fun at it instead

[@gabe_s_videos]

@@ilikebirds7748 I totally get that, for sure. I just don't think it works imo. It just gives me a nasty feeling when I hear it.

[@Hallows4]

One more thing to consider: I don't know if Tolkien made this parallel himself or if it was the result of later interpretation, but Quenya is essentially the Elvish equivalent of Latin- it's associated with "high culture" and was widely spoken back in the day, but by the time of The Lord of the Rings its usage had become largely ceremonial.

[@brooksboy78]

Yes, he said this many times! He would often call Quenya "Elf-Latin."

[@GravesRWFiA]

it wasn't so much ceremonial as had died out. it was the tongue the noldor brought back with them but after learning of the kin slaying it was banned in sindarin realms and was spoken only among the noldor in their own courts. as most of these were exterminated by morgoth, well the speakers were gone. I don't get her claim that sindar was thel anguage of elrond. His wife was the daughter of Galadriel, daughter of Finarfin, and he himself was decended from turgon, high king of the noldor(well one of them) so I'm sure he handled both equally well.

[@g.thomashart9368]

...and don’t forget that Latin is 9/10 directly from Greek...

[@JosiahMcCarthy]

@@g.thomashart9368 uh, no, they're just both descended from Proto-Indo-European and were in close contact. Latin is well-establishedly NOT descended from Greek.

[@Ninjaned]

This reminds me that Sanskrit kind of serves the same purpose on our side of the world.

[@Oldqueen96]

Tolkien actually hit the nail on the head in regard to the relationship of Jewish people to broader European society at the time of his writing. I’ve read works by Jewish authors from that time in Europe and picked up on the themes Tolkien discusses. I wrote a paper in college about how based on those works it seemed that Jewish people were at once natives and participants of European societies and separate. They inhabited different social and occupational roles within and outside of their communities. It’s very interesting how Tolkien seems to understand this duality of Jewish existence at the time of his writing and how it is reflected in his work.

[@TheJackOfFools]

That's actually the original context for the shibboleth. Those were Hebrew words that were extremely difficult to pronounce even for native speakers. Because they lived so closely with the communities around them, but were historically threatened often, it was a good way to tell an outsider who just lived close and picked up some of the language. That made it easier for them to know who they could trust if things got dicey.

[@oremfrien]

Jews that I know who are familiar with the “Jewishness” of the Dwarves are generally in favor of the representation. The Dwarves are presented as a noble but secretive people who can integrate but only on certain terms. One told me that “The Hobbit” read to him as a critique/support of Zionism. In many ways, the Dwarves present a much more balanced Jewish representation than JKR’s goblins or FSF’s Meyer Wolfsheim.

[@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013]

Basically everyone in Europe did, they just hated it.

[@elizabethlee2136]

@@oremfrien I never really caught the Zionist connection. But thirteen brothers representing the biblical tribes even though most Ashkanazi Jewish people were not Semetic. The devotion and dignity of the past. And how leaders were swept up not in leading their people but an all too common apologia, like the civil war or The Roman Republic or even the horrors of the Diaspora. Focussing on the material trappings of the past instead of leading the people in the world that had changed. I mean Thorin made me angry as a young kid, but as you grow you have differnt view points. Its an interesting take. Post War anticolonial movement was not just for Israel, it was all over Africa and South America. India with so much promise in its revolution devolved into three countries. When your people have been stripped of their dignity and home because of something objectively evil, wouldn't it make sense to want something tangible and behave irrationally. Thorn wants the Arkenstone because it's the most valuable thing, but in reality it's not as valuable as people and the potential they will face rebuilding their new lives with others who have been treated as cruelly by the same forces.

[@oremfrien]

@@elizabethlee2136 I don't disagree with the post-colonial motif, but I think it has a special connection to Jews because of the journey that Thorin had to take from the world of Men and Elves (functionally Europe) to the East (functionally Asia) to return to their homeland and reclaim it from those who now rested there. Other post-colonial peoples did not have a journey; they were fighting in their homes already. The Jews see the Arkenstone as representing Jerusalem. As for whether Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the Biblical Israelites, genetics quite clearly confirms their Middle Eastern origins. But even if you refuse to believe the science on this, what matters more is that Ashkenazi Jews believe that they are the descendants of the Biblical Jews which spawns that emotional appeal to return.

[@Number9Robotic]

The instant I started this vid, I was immediately distracted by Lindsay's "Too Many Tooks" shirt and how much I want it so bad right now lmao

[@tidbit2190]

Right? Also, the song is stuck in my head now...

[@slugworth3111]

I know. I need it.

[@californiumblog]

Ok then, I wasn't the only one!

[@vargsvansify]

Too many Tooks will spoil the wraiths 🎶

[@thexalon]

@@tidbit2190 And now it won't stop. Oh no, I have intro-itis!

[@AislinKageno]

When I read A Secret Vice back in college ten years ago, I had never related to something so hard. I'd been conlanging since middle school, and just like Tolkien, I always treated it as something embarrassing, hard to explain to others without making myself sound foolish. His description of conlanging as vaguely shameful and kind of abnormal was absolutely something that resonated with me, and I've really enjoyed watching the public perception of the hobby shift in recent years.

[@CazAvery]

I know a guy (my dad's old school friend) who has a PhD in Latin and Elvish. He lives in New Zealand, shockingly.

[@gcjaloto]

Please, share his thesis with us! I would love to read it!

[@barrettdecutler8979]

Where can one get a PhD in Elvish?

[@noah5664]

As a linguistics nerd who is currently reading FoTR for the first time, this video is my wet dream

[@kappamakizushi]

FoTR?

[@alansmith8893]

Well, you're in for a treat. Particularly if you haven't read the rest of middle earth yet.

[@Schlachti10]

@@kappamakizushi Fellowship of the Ring

[@reallyidrathernot.134]

Get involved with irl languages that are in danger of going extinct! The Wellsprings project at ANU has done cool work on this recently.

[@benvoliothefirst]

I'm genuinely curious... How old are you, and how is this the first time you're reading it?

[@kevintran5469]

Lindsey Ellis making a reference to Julio Torres's brilliant Papyrus sketch is what we needed

[@CathrineMacNiel]

*wispers* papyrus

[@benvoliothefirst]

@@CathrineMacNiel I KNOW WHAT YOU DID!!!

[@eleintblood]

Oh, Kevin. Not this again.

[@alex0589]

Shakira merch....off-brand teas?!

[@TadBigby]

like a thoughtless child, wandering by a garden, just yanking leaves along the way.

[@SkydreamerStudios]

"in the community, a thing that exists, a CONLANG" I feel so seen

[@suburbaknght]

Mi vidas vin.

[@Volmortanto]

@@suburbaknght mi vidas ĝin ankaŭ.

[@BradyPostma]

The eye sees all.

[@Alexandra-ip2by]

@@Volmortanto mi sona ala e toki Epelanto

[@Volmortanto]

@@Alexandra-ip2by mi toki lili e toki pona, taso mi toki e ni: mi lukin kin e ona

[@miyoutakisawa5976]

I’m glad Lindsay is getting good use out of her “ICONIC” fan

[@sharonoddlyenough]

I read this just as I got to that part!

[@chelsbells27]

I could listen to Lindsay talk about Tolkien for eons.

[@willherondale6367]

Different PBS show ;)

[@Pudddle]

@@willherondale6367 Talkin' Tolkien

[@Sbannmarie]

Ditto

[@JasperJanssen]

Eras, even.

[@pokinDave]

If she did it in Entish you could get your wish.

[@bygon432]

12:00 That still to this day is my favorite experience of con-langs. Seeing these words you learn bit by bit over so many pages assembled into a crude insult was true immersion.

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

Tolkien was British, of course he was self-deprecating and ashamed of his hobbies.

[@nakenmil]

As one does.

[@Areanyusernamesleft]

You mean hobbies *other than gardening.* ;p

[@bluewales73]

His hobbies and his hobbits.

[@seed_drill7135]

Are you embarrassed easily? I am. But it's nothing to worry about, it's all part of growing up and being British.

[@n4rzul]

Interestingly though, he was South African by birthright. He was born in Bloemfontein in 1892.

[@chegeny]

His real name was Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien.

This was good

[@klisterklister2367]

correct

[@justicerainz]

This is funnier than it should be

[@maximilianovazquez9988]

I´m 100% stealing this.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

😂🤣

[@TheSorrel]

"Learning the Dragon language is an integral part of the Gameplay." You're making it sound way better than it actually is.

[@DarthFennec]

"Press X to learn the dragon language"

[@kanrup5199]

I wish they didn't turn the dragons into the chosen one's combat fodder, but hey that's just me.

[@korganrocks3995]

I mean, your CHARACTER learning the dragon language certainly is part of the gameplay, but yeah, the player doesn't need to do much learning. Has anyone made a mod where you can Shout by saying the correct words into your mic? The game Black & White had a spellcasting system where each spell had a specific shape, and you cast them by "drawing" the shape with your mouse. Really fun game, shame I could never seem to cure my familiar of eating random villagers whenever I left him alone... 😄

[@sorateal12]

The Dragon writing in Skyrim looks like Cuneiform!!

[@sauron1427]

Oh, so it's fine when Tolkien posts his cringe but when *I* do it it's "evil"

[@johnbrownlee5419]

Maybe if it didn't make the sky turn black when people spoke it...

[@alex0589]

Go back to the shadows whence you came, you orange eye perv

[@TheJackOfFools]

Don't let those Valar get you down.

[@countbalerionofhousetatter2624]

What are you guys picking on Sauron for? Do you know how hard it is being a Dark Lord? Meanies.

[@groverjuicy]

Some of us still love you O Dark Lord. 🙂

[@Tricksterbelle]

I had a good handful of clothing articles in high school with my name prominently written in Tengwar in sharpie. I was that nerd.

[@jakeaurod]

Translated or transliterated?

[@barrettdecutler8979]

I think it would have to be transliterated, unless they had a name like "Grey" that already had an equivalent in Elvish.

[@Mr110074]

Marc Okrand also created the Atlantean language for Disney’s Atlantis: The Lost Empire. The language is a “Tower of Babel” language from which all modern languages descended from and Okrand used common characteristics from many world languages to create his own that fitted with the mythology of the movie. That’s some serious dedication right there.

[@BeamSword0]

I am a little confused about why Tolkien's parallels between the Dwarves' Khuzdul and Semitic languages, or the connection to Jewish communities is considered "tone deaf." Everything he said is accurate, and honestly sort of heart warming. Like the Dwarves, Jews were forced out of their homeland and forced to wander as minorities among other people groups for thousands of years, and I think you're meant to empathize with the Dwarves and see their pain, not think poorly of them or anything.

[@Amaritudine]

True, although some people note how the dwarves are portrayed as a reclusive, bearded race devoted to seeking gold and riches. Those are common antisemitic stereotypes, even if Tolkien never intended his dwarves to be read that way.

[@b.c.miller9638]

@@Amaritudine His portrayal of Tom Bombadil is what irks me!

[@seanbeadles7421]

Yeah they’re an unfairly persecuted people by the elves due to their height and excluding the...rather negative view of petty dwarves, Tolkien never thought lowly of the dwarves. Also dwarvish sounds so Semitic it’s kind of funny tbh. That throaty h is so emblematic lol

[@barrygormley3986]

Lindsay has some solid takes on movies and books. But unfortunately, her politics make her one of those commentators who, when they aren't sure what they should say about something, will go with "problematic" as the safest bet (best way to avoid getting canceled, really). If anything Tolkien was probably one of the most sympathetic European writers toward the situation of the Jews at the time he was constructing his legendarium. Edit: Oops. Looks like she got canceled anyway. That should serve as a lesson to anyone who thinks they should build a career pandering to people with extreme political views.

[@ChrisFarrell]

It’s not too complicated. Tolkien was very sympathetic to the Jewish people, and clearly he was firmly anti-racists. But if your characters that speak a language related to Hebrew are going to be characterized by their flaw of being rich, greedy, grasping hoarders of wealth who are attached to material things, well, that’s not great. This vicious stereotype has been a cause of enormous suffering in the world and has been used to justify all kinds of atrocities. I don’t think he personally intended ill by it; he portrays the dwarves as admirable and implacable enemies of Sauron and he was probably thinking much more about the dwarves of fantasy then the links to the language. Given what we know of him it seems pretty unlikely he intended that connection. But still. Lindsay says it’s tone-deaf, and I think that seems like the right way to describe it.

[@warriorcatskid003]

Tolkien: * writes a sizable amount about elf drama surrounding a consonant shift * this is just my stupid little hobby Me: nah you good * pretends I understood any of it *

[@alex0589]

Audrey the cat nerd « it’s toMAHto » Other guy: « prepare to die »

[@brooksboy78]

Nice reference to the very obscure "Shibboleth of Fëanor" lol.

[@warriorcatskid003]

brooksboy78 when I spiral I SPIRAL, man

[@valinorean4816]

@@brooksboy78 what's that and where did he write about it?

[@mattmclaren3067]

I am extremely jealous of her "iconic" fan. I want it. I want it yesterday.

[@keokihiga8462]

Lindsay really outgrew nostalgia chick, glad she’s doing well with this gig at PBS

[@tonyparker7349]

Been well beyond done with the role since before her departure around 2015.

[@DarthFennec]

Glad she got out of there when she did, personally.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Actually, deep down she's still that same girl that loves edgy humor and loved it when all those hot dogs hit her face.

[@JesseMedlong]

Correction: Celeborn was not of the High Elves, but was of the Sindar Elves, or Grey Elves. The High Elves were the Noldor who came from Valinor to Middle Earth.

[@philipclayberg4928]

I thought that Celeborn was one of the Teleri (one of three groups of Elves in Valinor -- Noldor, Teleri, and Vanyar). But he never went over the Sea to Valinor until the beginning of the Fourth Age. His wife, Galadriel, was a Noldor who did go to Valinor, and then sailed back in stolen Teleri ships to Middle Earth with Feanor et al. When Feanor's father re-married, he married a Vanyar, and their children were Finarfin, Fongolfin, and Fingon (the first of which stayed in Valinor, while the other two crossed the Helcaraxe and thus returned to Middle Earth). (see not just "The Silmarillion", but also the essay on Celeborn and Galadriel in "The Unfinished Tales" -- the essay was never finished, but went through different versions).

[@laurahill9643]

@@philipclayberg4928 The Sindar at the Teleri who stayed in Middle Earth but not by the sea. They had Thingol as their king and stayed behind to wait for him while he was lost meeting Melian. That became the realm of Doriath. So there were the Teleri of Middle Earth (the Sindar) and the Teleri of Alqualonde near Valinor.

[@fermintenava5911]

The Silmarillon regards all those as High Elves who came to Aman and saw the Two Trees in their light (therefor also called "light elves") . In one of the several biographies that Tolkien created for Galadriel, Celeborn was actually one of the Elves of Tol Eressea who witnessed the Kinslaying. Hence, he was a high elf.

[@philipclayberg4928]

@@laurahill9643 I know. Tolkien called the elves who stayed in Middle Earth the Moriquendi (the ones who hadn't seen the light of Aman; not just the Sindar of Beleriand, but also those who didn't even cross the Misty Mountains) and the Valaquendi (the ones who had seen the light of Aman). It's been awhile since I've read "The Silmarillion" (I also have Vol. 2, "The Book of Lost Plays, Book 2" and Vol. 11 of his writings, "The War of the Jewels"; I used to have all 12 volumes but had to cut back far more than I wish I had to). Maybe I need to go back and do some re-reading.

[@philipclayberg4928]

@@fermintenava5911 But, in that sometimes confusing/conflicting essay, Celeborn also was an Elf who didn't cross the Misty Mountains and stayed in Lorien. At the End of the First Age, instead of going back to Aman, Galadriel traveled east, crossed the Misty Mountains, and met Celeborn in Lorien. I don't know what Tolkien would've eventually decided had he lived longer. As his son Christopher once put it, everything that was published came out of what was written by that point. But since everything was always in flux, things could always change after publication, because his father would go back and think about it some more. And, thank goodness, he kept everything he wrote (or most of it). It's very rare that we, the readers, get such an intimate look at an author's thinking. It's like Pompeii: The citizens of Pompeii probably would never have wanted all their secrets revealed 1700+ years after the 79 A.D. eruption of Mount Vesuvius destroyed it. But, thanks to the eruption, we have a time capsule of the city. Thanks to Tolkien not destroying all his unpublished writing, we have a time capsule of his writing, and his son, Christopher, thank goodness, chose to share that time capsule with the world.

[@fishiest3539]

"In Skyrim, learning to use the dragon language is a crucial part of the gameplay" I mean... in theory

[@cameronjadewallace]

XD Me playing Skyrim: Dragonborn? I didn't even do that quest!

[@Logitah]

I am Finnish and Tolkien always reminds me to be proud of my country and language! ❤ Also I major in English so of course language in general is important to me. 🤩 Thank you Lindsay!

[@RenegadeShepard69]

I think that's something not talked about much when it comes to Tolkien, but he created one of the most beautiful celebrations of northern european cultures in modern times with his admiration of celtic and finnish languages, as well as semitic, latin, arabic etc. I also love the finnish language and can definitely see what he saw.

[@Logitah]

@@RenegadeShepard69 It may be silly, but sometimes you won't be able to appreciate something you have until someone else does it. 😅 I am very thankful to Tolkien for this reason.

[@dannyg4383]

Hyvä Suomi! I am german and learning finnish for about six months. Suomi on todella kaunis kieli.

[@mcaeln7268]

@@dannyg4383I do not speak a lick of finnish but if I recall correctly, I am pretty sure if you capitalize Suomi it becomes the country but lowercase is the language

[@jjkthebest]

That mt Fuji analogy was brilliant. I love Terry pratchett

[@princessthyemis]

That quote at the beginning is an absolutely fantastic descriptor of Tolkien's influence! It absolutely blows my mind when I think about how influential he has been. It's almost hard to comprehend it, in a way.

[@oliviacanady8669]

The guy who did the languages for Game of Thrones is now writing the languages for the Shadow and Bone show on Netflix (Ravkan, Kerch, and Fjerdan I think for those who have read the books-it’s an adaptation of both Shadow and Bone and Six of Crows) and I’m so excited to hear them spoken! Based on what he did in Game of Thrones I’m sure he did a good job

[@Beacuzz]

When I was a kid I started making up a language for a few characters I had. I got as far as some numbers when I forgot about it. I'm picking them up again and actually creating a story for them and I'm loving playing with language. One of my favorite videos to look up for inspiration is linguists commenting on actors doing accents

[@a_e_hilton]

Don't worry Lindsay, I promise Tolkein's languages are NOT a "lesser known" aspect of his work. In my Pop Culture class we're looking at his books for their languages! We appreciate just as much as you do

[@mistressofthewicket]

Aw damn. Looks like I'm gonna have to do a LOTR rewatch again

[@jbvader721]

IKR?! I just finished a "Titanic" rewatch after Lindsay's "Is Titanic Good Actually?" video.

[@ThePixel1983]

And the making of part where they are taught how to sword fight! ❤️

[@GullibleTarget]

Aww man!. I promised myself: no LOTR for a year. Maybe longer.

[@DeadlyDeadlyBeees]

@@jbvader721 ha! I've been meaning to do that too

[@TheTrueRandomness]

I love the movies but I hate that they’re so good that I haven’t reread the books in years, even though they have a much more vibrant and detailed tale to tell

[@221b]

While both Star Trek and Tolkein gained popularity in the 1960s, the Klingons wouldn't be shown speaking their own language until the first Star Trek movie in 1979 (where James Doohan created a simple language for them to use in their short scene at the beginning of the movie.) Linguist Marc Okrand then developed Doohan's work into a move complete language over the course of future movies and TV series, mainly in the '80s and '90s, so the two language is really from a different era from Tolkein's initial popularity.

[@jyrkijarvinen1603]

Nyt on suorastaan pakko sanoa että nautin tämän videon katsomisesta varsin paljon. Vaikka äänen äänitys olikin hieman irrallisen oloinen. Selkeä kauniisti kerrottu tarina miehestä ja hänen keksimistään kielistä ja historiasta joka niiden takana on, sekä tietenkin eeppisistä tarinoista jotka kasvoivat kertomaan hahmoista jotka noita kieliä puhuvat. ;)

[@danatrick4868]

Thank you so much for this. In both the story creation process and the study of history, language is one of the most important things to reveal one's personality and culture. My Mesoamerican Professor heavily emphasized the importance of words, translations, transliterations, and their meanings throughout the ages. According to him, language and how they are conveyed reflect cultures and beliefs more intimately than simply studying them through books. That always stuck to me as both an aspiring author and historian. If you want to create a culture in your fantasy world, create a language that reflects that culture and people.

[@shanwilson3605]

I love that so many of the books on that left of frame shelf are currently on mine. Including all the Expanded Universe love. It could have been my case you're standing in front of.

[@KonniWynn]

who knows...

[@Minam0]

What’s stopping you from getting those exact shame bookcases and putting them in a corner?

[@Nerdcoresteve1]

I love hearing/seeing Lindsay Ellis's Natalie Wynnisms. It reminds me that they're pals, which makes me smile.

[@kimberlybega8271]

I had the chance to fly Finnair nine years ago and found it really interesting to listen to the Finnish language portion of the announcements. I couldn't understand a word, but to my ears it sounded magical and almost otherworldly. I can see why Tolkien picked it as an inspiration for Quenya.

[@elleplaudite]

Oh how exotic.

[@brucetucker4847]

Whereas "Hakkaa päälle!" makes me feel like I'm about to have my head cloven in two.

[@satanswife2546]

I tried to learn elvish for months when I was a kid, there's like books and apps for it but I gave up and tried to learn French and I gave that up as well... :p

[@demonelf2094]

Same here.

[@Minam0]

I had a best friend in elementary that although didn’t become fluent, was able to read and write in it and gave us all elvish names.

[@ThePixel1983]

Mais pourquoi ?! Ce sont deux langues merveilleuses ! (Signed, a German)

[@KryssLaBryn]

I learned a bit of Sindarin for a con costume back in 2015. You should give it another go; there's a surprising amount of resources for learning it online now. :)

[@turricanedtc3764]

@Satan's Wife - Understood. It takes more work than people think to be an Elvish impersonator...

[@annerako]

Peepin' Lindsay's debut novel Axiom's End on her shelf (near her left shoulder). Reading now and loving it!

[@dylanthehopelessrema]

That “too many tooks” shirt tho.

[@morganalabeille5004]

David J Peterson, the guy who developed the languages for Game of Thrones, has done a ton of work for a ton of different tv shows and movies and video games. He is a cool guy and has made a TON of resources for people who want to make conlangs of their own.

[@belegl.7721]

I immediatly jumped when seeing J Peterson, these conservative bafoons really get to you. Anyway, thanks for the additional context on David Peterson!

[@christianbjorck816]

@Beleg L. J Peterson is a legend though. And Tolkien was conservative as well. LoTR is heavily conservative in it’s themes, characters and plot too... so stop enjoying that I suppose?

[@onlyrevolutions2010]

I hope I don't come off as antisemitic or too ignorant, but I don't think that Tolkien was so off the mark with his remarks about Dwarvish. The Jewish people in Europe were, like the Dwarves, usually alienated and shunned except when the majority found them useful. Their contributions were, like those of the Dwarves, often ridiculed or dismissed until some king decided he wanted their help on a project, after which they were again dismissed and treated like "others". And because they were so close-knit and proud of their unique traditions, Jewish people were treated like outsiders who must be "up to something". Tolkien's Dwarves get a mild form of that treatment in Middle-earth. I think Tolkien understood that and felt it was wrong, so any parallels between the Jewish people and Dwarves were meant to shine a light on that disparity and show that the people we unfairly alienate and shun can be noble and decent people we ought to embrace.

[@IsyEskenazi]

I see that Axiom's End hardcover among all the books. Sly move, Lindsey

[@victotronics]

Looks more like a pocket book edition to me. I thought she was giving it a fake vintage look. I could be wrong.

[@alex0589]

Smmooothh

[@JervisGermane]

I looked for it, but I didn't see it.

[@TheJackOfFools]

@@JervisGermane immediately to the right of her left shoulder, next to Dust on the bookshelf.

[@parlamedia]

TORILLE!! (an old elvish saying)

[@tiskihuora]

TORILLA TAVATAAN

[@suniuphill161]

TORILLE

[@handlessuck777]

What market, guys?

[@warriorcatskid003]

This is the kind of nerd crap I EAT UP. could I write a language, learn one? No. But I love that other people can.

[@billyalarie929]

exactly the same

[@adlockhungry304]

“Silflay hraka you embleer rah!” Has got to be my favorite literary passage of all time. Three quarters of the book is basically a brilliant set up for that one punchline. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I first read that.

[@Cyromantik]

I love that Tolkien essentially created a world in which to house his created language. It's a wonderfully quirky and nerdy idea. I'm passionate regarding the idea of technological and linguistic regression, so I'm drawing a comic to house _that_.

[@kingiking110]

Why did that 5-second long clip of Aragorn singing elvish brought tears to my eyes??!! What magic is this??!!

[@garethtudor836]

Replacing my sci fi/fantasy nerd hat with my metalhead hat for a moment: one of my favourite Death Metal bands, Amon Amarth, took their name from Tolkien; it's the Sindarin name for Mount Doom. Putting on my history nerd hat: I feel a real connection with the Rohirrim, given that almost every aspect of their culture is drawn from the Kingdom of Mercia, my family's ancestral homeland. I guess he couldn't resist incorporating his extensive research into the history of the Heptarchy

[@rustyshackleford6633]

Never knew that about Amon Amarth. That's cool.

[@lfr8666]

I feel like this video would make good back-to-back viewing with Kyle Kallgren's Klingon Hamlet episodes. Both go nicely in-depth in different ways to spread the love of conlangs. Much respect. (also since I was compelled to pause and find them again, there are a couple tumblr/reddit posts on how Frodo and Faramir should both have known enough Sindarin to realize 'Cirith Ungol' meant 'spider pass' and maybe not be so surprised by Shelob. Probably too in the weeds for this vid :P) That shirt and that fan.

[@linkdude64]

7:38.... ... ...PERKELE!!!

[@citadelofwinds1564]

Torille!

[@Sipu97]

As a Finn, I appreciate the mentioning of the influence of Finnish. #torillatavataan

[@Knihti1]

Language of Valarin (Eldest speech) is interisting as Ainur didn't need spoken language to communicate with each other, but made one when they did take physical form in Arda. As Valarin is from outside of Arda, is coplete alien to Elvish as words were complicated long and hard to pronounce like Valarin word for Telperion (the elder of the Two Trees of Valinor) is Ibrīniðilpathānezel. It sounds like Valar were chemists...

[@DrRipper19]

A concept from Tolkien's earlier ideas that I absolutely love is that Morgoth and his servants spoke a descendant of Valarin called Melkian, which then evolved into the various dialects of orkish that survived til the third age. In his later concepts what Morgoth and his servants spoke is left a mystery but this is still my headcanon

[@RoccondilRinon]

When you see the sketches for writing systems Tolkien worked on as he developed what would become the Tengwar, the Devanagari influence is a lot clearer; Lindsay is spot on the money.

[@owendewaal9805]

Yeah, the in lore precursor to Tengwar is Sarati, which has the same quality of being written along that line, albeit from top to bottom rather than horizontal.

[@markkoehr5003]

In highschool I had a friend that was really into languages, and we tried to make a conlang together. It was really fun, but a lot of work.

[@chrisball3778]

I've been reading LOTR with my son during lockdown. It's literally been over 20 years since I last read it, and more than 15 since I last saw the movies. I'd actually been wondering about the languages, and it's been really great to watch this laying everything out in an accessible format. I've read the Mabinogion fairly recently, so had sort of suspected Elvish was based on Welsh. I also knew that Tolkien specialised in Old English literature, so I knew that Anglo-Saxon English was a big influence on Middle Earth. But I'd never in a million years have guessed that Dwarvish was based on Hebrew, or that Finnish and Esperanto were also involved. Thanks.

[@someone-my1ug]

Just when I thought I was a decent writer. Damn you, Tolkien!

[@motorcitymangababe]

Tolkien is such an inspiration as a conlanger. I have 1 working sentence and it was 2 weeks. The fact that he did so much is amazing

[@amzrigh]

Back in highschool, I amused myself one day by translating my and my friends' names into Elvish - that is, I cross-referenced Behind the Name and an online Elvish dictionary. I don't remember whether it was Quenya or Sindarin, but it'd be easy enough to look back up, since I remember a couple of the names. I took first and middle to construct them, since I thought that would give a more substantial-sounding result. My own, Mark Bryan, meaning "strong warrior" together, came out Ohtavetulka. My friend, Kimberly something, I don't recall the meaning, but the result was Navetari. She liked it so much, she used it for an AIM handle. 😁

[@owendewaal9805]

Judging by how those names look, that's definitely Quenya.

[@gegenbauer]

You can’t translate names.

[@amzrigh]

@@gegenbauer Tolkien translated names in his own writing.

[@owendewaal9805]

@@gegenbauer I mean, you can, depending on the naming convention. If I name is made up of words of a distinct meaning that can be translated into a coherent name in another language. Most modern western names have lost meaning however so it's indeed less than practical for western naming convention.

[@Sipu97]

@@gegenbauer Dude...

[@ZemplinTemplar]

My personal favourite is Khuzdul. And I always smile when I notice the similarites of Quenya and Sindarin to Finnish and Welsh. I'm always disappointed he didn't develop Adunaic and its offshoot Westron a bit more. It would be really interesting writing excerpts from his works in Westron. We only have a few personal names, placenames and a few terms to go on. Khuzdul is quite similar in that regard. Largelly known through what is inferred and deciphered.

[@SmokeyLaBear]

The guys who write The Expanse television series consult with a linguist, Nick Farmer, who creates and provides phrases of Belter Creole, the fictional language of Beltalowda (people of the Belt). It's not a complete language (yet), just a collection of expressions. Edit: grammar

[@ReverendMeat51]

Came here to comment similar though iirc the version of Belter in the show was the most toned-down version of the language that was actually created

[@SmokeyLaBear]

@@ReverendMeat51, there's less Belter language in the books compared to the show. The language expands with each season.

[@ReverendMeat51]

@@SmokeyLaBear I know. It's more than "just a collection of expressions" though.

[@brucetucker4847]

Oye beltalowda! I saw the Expanse novels in a prominent place on Lindsay's bookshelf to her left. (Btw _beltalowda_ is a collective plural meaning people of the Belt, so "Beltalowdas" is not a proper form. You don't want to sound like the _Inyalowda_ who no sa sa Belta Creole, or worse yet like a _welwala_ who's forgotten where he came from.)

[@tobybartels8426]

12:00 : Yes, I *loved* that when I first read the book. He had explained, on numerous occasions, the meaning of each element of that sentence, so that although he did not explain the sentence it all when it occurred, I understood it perfectly all the same. Masterful! ETA: And although it's been years since I read the book and I remember little of the language, I know that sentence, enough to realize that you got it wrong for some reason.

[@jonathanneil5901]

Lindsey Ellis is so smart, funny, beautiful, and generally perfect! I love listening to anything she has to teach x

[@lifeisbutadreamm]

God I love when Lindsey talks about anything Tolkien-related lol, I could listen to her articulate alllll day, but even moreso when it's on the topic of books that shaped my entire childhood/adolescence, she's just so good!! 😍

[@tisjester]

" I'm a science fiction writer, I know how he feels " - Lindsay Ellis 2020. Nice flex there 😎👍

[@SirBlackReeds]

Was that a joke? Lindsay Ellis is a crap writer. If that's flexing, her bicep is doing that cartoony thing where it falls and sags instead of rises.

[@Fattybobatty1224]

One of my favorite uses of con languages is in the soundtrack for the game Nier. The singer basically future-shifted current languages, so when you are listening, it sounds familiar, yet still indecipherable.

[@Fattybobatty1224]

One of the main themes, “Song of the Ancients” is even sung in a language developed between twins.

[@arianamalkin156]

"Tribal yet futuristic like the papyrus font" I KNOW WHAT YOU DID

[@harrycook9041]

Conlanger here! Really loved the video Lindsay, as always!

[@nellyfg]

14min on languages and Tolkien and his influence --- Me during the entire time : I WANT THAT T-SHIRT !

[@djphydoux]

Nice use of Holst - Neptune the Mystic... fits in nice with the theme. Y'all rock!

[@NOLAMarathon2010]

13:11 This is a very Frank-Frazetta-looking painting.

[@AubriGryphon]

God, I last read Watership Down decades, plural, ago but I didn't even stumble over that phrase. This thing gets in your head HARD.

[@Dampfrebell02]

Also Constructed Creole dialects like Trigedasleng are extremely interesting ImO

[@Volmortanto]

That was also made by David J. Peterson, the guy who fleshed out the game of thrones languages

[@plixypl0x]

Where o where did you get that shirt?! THat's two of my favorite things in one. I LOVE IT!!!!!

[@marsouinrirou]

The SNL call back with the Papyrus font is *chef's kiss*

[@alex0589]

marsouinrirou « youve shown me this before, they clearly changed it »

[@richarddeese1991]

Thanks. Love the T-shirt! Tolkien worked on his mythology his entire adult life. The depth and breadth of his stories of Middle Earth cannot be duplicated without seeming a cheap copy. He's the granddaddy! tavi.

[@benadrylthundercrotch7144]

"Post that cringe" is one of the most weirdly motivational phrases I've ever heard.

[@alex0589]

Benadryl Thundercrotch just get a different author name, for the love librarians’ shush

[@SirBlackReeds]

It aged worse than yoghurt.

[@danielhdidouan]

The most iconic thing isn't the fan or subtle shade... it's the channel and its production. 100% T. Keep on keeping on!

[@avishaiedenburg1102]

Celeborn, while a high elf, is Telerin, who speak their own dialect which is distinct from Quenya (and is meant to be the ancestral language to Sindarin).

[@laurahill9643]

Yeah, he and Galadriel met in Doriath, not Valinor.

[@fermintenava5911]

It's not that easy, I'm afraid - Tolkien had invented those two for the "Ring" and later in life, had different biographies for both of them. Read the "Book of Unfinished Tales" for full detail, but in one version, Celeborn was a Telerin on the Isle Tol Eressea near Valinor and joined Galadriel to pursue Feanor for the kinslaying. And only in that regard he can be considered a High elf, because as an Eldar in Beleriand, he lacked the revelation of Aman that only the High Elves received.

[@frankhope1830]

4:32 That fan really earned its milage, huh?

[@robburgess4556]

I haven't even played the video yet and I've just fallen in love with a t-shirt! Where is it from?

[@RedBear535]

I love any mention of Sir Terry. I just hope that more people are intrigued and read his work.

[@AlEcyler]

I used Tolkien's use of conlangs in my personal statement for my admission to grad school.

[@Nevwyn]

Whenever I hear about constructed languages I always giggle. It reminds me of an interview I read where Marty Simon spoke about the Brunnen-G battle hymn "Yo-A-O" from Lexx and desperately trying to get a men's choir to sing with passion a bunch of gibberish words.

[@samhaines8228]

Neat stuff! Wondered if Burgess' Nadsat or Orwell's Newspeak might gain referential mention.

[@christianbjorck816]

Burgess Nadsat was one of the best reading experinces I ever had. It’s so cool how fast you pick up on it and can read the book without a hitch.

[@theoutsiderhumanist8159]

I'm really glad I clicked on this. Even when Lindsay Ellis makes content about something I'm not otherwise very interested in, she pretty consistently manages to do it in a way that catches my interest anyway.

[@petermann673]

12:06 Uncensored rabbit swears in the CC lmao

[@anotherlemontree]

😂😂😂

[@m.di.c.]

My guess is that because he was a professor for Old English at Cambridge he was worried that if people found out, they'd think his lectures on the subject would get mixed up with his own inventions. But that's just a guess of mine.

[@sleepiestgf]

i forget sometimes that not everyone is as in love with conlanging as i am

[@edenfollower2704]

I could listen to Lindsay talk about my favorite shows and games all day long!

[@michaelt.5672]

On the "tone-deaf"-thing: I think it's a little unfair to judge a book published in the 50s by the subtextual implications we might see in it today. The connections Tolkien conciously drew clearly aren't meant to be negatives. They are all about how a history can shape a culture and a language, not the inherent effects of race. And many of the correlations between Tolkiens dwarves and jewish stereotypes are correlations that the traditional image of dwarves (that Tolkien was drawing from) already had. No writer can predict the sensitivities of future generations. So while one can and ought to be aware of such potentially problematic aspects, it doesn't really make sense to call it "tone-deaf", as that clearly implicates the author.

[@RenegadeShepard69]

Aye, it's not tone-deaf at all. What's tone-deaf is today's Americans expecting the word "Anti" to precede "Semitic" everytime the word appears, shrivering in fear that they'll trip over the glass shard-filled floor in which who falls is a bigot. The man was raised in another era, one where jewish people lived a much different life, and had a normalized widespread stigma similar to today's gypsy, yet even in a shamelessly hostile environment to that people, he openly warmly admired not just the jewish people but many others who didn't have legitimate statehood-status like the finns and karelians, and were persecuted etc. None of his assessments should be demonized. I, for one, can spot many different instances of, the today called, "incidental racism" in his work, many which are brushed away because the people who care about nitpicking dead people for that aren't as comprehensive of what discrimination is like as they think, and I can spot those "problematic" details because I am from a completely different time than his, born around a century after him. Doesn't mean anything other than that the times have changed and that I can interpret things that aren't there and there weren't meant to be and that don't objectively hurt nor violate, as nothing in fiction does. His works are some of the least hateful of the famous writers from the past century.

[@TacticusPrime]

Tolkien designed his dwarves to resemble Jews. “I do think of the ‘Dwarves’ like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their native tongue.” He intentionally designed their language to be Semitic, with the same triconsonantal root grammar that modern Semitic languages share.

[@michaelt.5672]

@@TacticusPrime None of that speaks to the physical attributes that were (and still are) used to caricaturise jews. He drew from the history of the jews as a people, but not from their characterisation as a race.

[@PiggyXMalone]

Yes. He needed another culture away from the Welsh and Nordic ideas he had already used, and chose one from the Middle East that fitted the bill in its relations to the others he had already established. The comment of "tone-deaf" was nothing more than some rather sad, lowbrow virtue signalling.

[@memmermiller]

Appreciate the outtake at the end. It’s fun to see Lindsay being a little goofy on top of all the brains. Truly ICONIC 😂😊