The Contrarians Panel: Dark Horse Album #2 - Ozzy Osbourne's The Ultimate Sin

Thanks to our awesome patreon subscribers for joining for this discussion about Ozzy Osbourne's "Ultimate Sin"!
The Contrarians is a show where one of us jumps in the hot seat picks a dark horse album from a band as that band's best album. The guest host will argue against them with facts, stats and all around truth, subjective and objective!
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[@thecontrarians2438]

Are you YAY or NAY for Ultimate Sin?? Tell us why! Want to join our Patreon chats! Head over to Patreon and subscribe at any tier! Hope to see you soon! New Patreons-only content up re: www.patreon.com/contrarians Become a supporter, content exclusive to Patreon subscribers includes as of today: Commercial-Free, Early Access to our episodes! ZOOM chats about music topics with the creators and hosts of The Contrarians! Also you can support us on Ko-fi by going to: ko-fi.com/thecontrarians we appreciate all your support!

[@teecuzbruh4058]

YAY! Jake E Lee is the reason..

[@MartinPopoff]

Very cool. A thorough look at this record. Every angle covered. Love it.

[@Danimal77]

The Ultimate Sin is by far my favourite Ozzy solo album. It's one killer riff after another, with a ton of melody all over the place. Also, the track "Secret Loser" open up the 1986 sci-fi/thriller movie "The Wraith" and what an opening it was with a great car drag race.

[@StephenZimmer]

A great album, I remember when it came out and my friends and I absolutely loved it and played it constantly. Really liked "The Wraith" too. Good memories! 🙂

[@timopaakkonen6462]

It's a thumbs up for me! Always liked the album quite a bit and still do!

[@affeneitrheim614]

I love "The Ultimate Sin", for me it’s Ozzy’s second best right behind "Diary of a Madman".

[@MyMusicCorner]

I remember getting this when it came out and I remember being into the album quite a bit. I had an early pressing of the album and it accidentally left Bob Daisley’s name off the credits. I had the album signed by Boris, the cover artist. I think I have to agree with the comment that this was the last good Ozzy album.

[@cameronsmith8328]

It’s my favourite Ozzy album and probably in my top 15 or so albums of all time. I find Jake’s playing on it absolutely incredible - riffs, solos and fills.

[@Rendclaw]

This album is a definite yay for me. This discussion is amusing to me, because I think this is the best Ozzy album since the Randy material. The problem was that fans back from 83 to 86 were still smarting over the death of Randy Rhoads, so anyone who was brought in had immense shoes to fill. Amazingly, Jake E. Lee pulled it off on Bark At The Moon, and yes he did it again for this album. Jake is a guitar player that came in from left field with a very unique style, a shredder's mentality, and could be melodic as well. This was exactly what Ozzy needed, even if a lot of fans could not or would not let Randy go, and Ozzy and his camp went head first into that well with Tribute after Jake was fired. This album was Jake coming into his own as a songwriter as well. The album was indeed heavier, and needed to be after Bark at the Moon, which sounded a little bit too much like the first two albums. Ozzy criticizing the album is funny to me, because he was driving the bus right along with Ron Nevison back then. As far as deconstructing the album, this was going into the final act for hard rock and heavy metal, even though Guns N Roses came out and provided a breath of fresh air in 1987, the rise of Metallica, etc. But you can sit there and say that that riff is a rip-off or watered-down version of another riff of another artist's song, because there was nothing new under the sun going into the late 80s. There were precious few innovators as opposed to most bands staying inside their pockets and raking in the money and adulation. Its a product from the times. This album ranks right up there with Moving Pictures and others as a non-skip album. If I put it on, I don't skip any of it.

[@kevinsmith7-7-7]

This and Crue's Theater of Pain HIGHLY Underrated Albums IMO, I realize I am in the Minority

[@michaelfrazia4569]

I love the songs on theater that were not released as singles....I found the 2 singles their weakest on the classic albums , but the rest of the album is right in my wheelhouse...obviously they had pressure to have some hits and build on shout at the devils success...typical of the mid 80s mtv culture

[@TheProphetJoshua]

My favorite Ozzy record though I'm not a big Ozzy fan. Every song is either: crazy people, nuclear war or "I'm not a good person".

[@Protometal66]

Absolutely love The Ultimate Sin. Back in the day I liked a couple of songs on it but the older I get , the more I enjoy it. Love every song on it

[@paulmonahawk4921]

I love this album and first encountered it as an impressionable 13 year old, they had a huge diorama of the album cover in my local record store which completely blew my mind!!

[@sjung66510]

Yay. I like the album. Not Ozzy's best, but still a solid album.

[@jerryattwooll4864]

I'm a yay, but I do think the production is a bit thin as was said here, but I really like most of the songs including Shot In The Dark which is a great commercial pop/rock song. Jake E Lee's playing is terrific.

[@RobNY5150]

Cool video. Diary of a Madman and The Ultimate Sin are my favorite Ozzy albums. For years The Ultimate Sin has been leading as my favorite..slightly. I know people knock it for some of its production issues but it was the sound at the time. It sounds a lot like HEART (1985) because they were both produced by Ron Nevison (especially the drums if you compare the two).

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks for the comment!

[@michaelfrazia4569]

the bloated ozzz...his appearance during this era was like the culmination of the past 15 years had manifested the ozz who appears in the shot in the dark video

[@careytamburrino746]

I originally bought this on cassette tape when it was brand new in 1986 when I was 21. I hear a lot about the 80's production lol it was 1986. I will forever love this record because I was there. I like it more than Bark even though Diary and Blizzard will always be the best.

[@SuperStrik9]

It's a definite step down from Bark At The Moon. I like Jake E Lee's guitar playing. Killer Of Giants and the title track are cool songs. Killer Of Giants is sort've like Jake's version of the song Diary Of A Madman. That's how I think of it. The rest of the album I'm kinda meh about.

[@janerikmellesdal3868]

Amazing album, love it!

[@EvilVonRetee]

Always really liked a lot The Ultimate Sin, production is ok and album cover fantastic. Killer of Giants, Secret Loser, the title track, Lightning Strikes... great stuff.

[@deanleslie3269]

Wow,Joe,I could NOT agree more on what you said about Ozzy! Lucky,you say? He's luckier than a dog with two peckers! Bark at the moon all music and lyrics by Ozzy Osbourne,yeah right,Ozzy. You could't even write lyrics in your time with Sabbath but now,overnight,you write both music and lyrics to an entire album??!! In all fairness,it's probably Sharon's doing but c'mon,Ozzy,you can put your foot down at one point. He's a guy who is creatively a zero,yet he manages to put his name on all the credits and his fans believe it. Remember on Speak of the devil where he introduces Paranoid as "one of the first numbers I wrote"? Pisses me off,man! Anyway,I also have to agree with Joe that it's probably his last decent record. Not a great production job but good songs in general. Please forgive my seemingly hate filled rant,but giving credit where credit is due is very important to me. Marco, Thank Christ for the bomb is a great album. Joshua,dein Englisch ist prima! Great job,everyone.Looking forward to the next episode!

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks for the comment and always love a Groundhogs shout out where i can!

[@joebecht5554]

Thanks for the kind words !

[@scottnorris8071]

I love Lightning 🌩 Strikes 🎵 Great Show! 👍🏻

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks Scott!!

[@billymac72]

1985-86 was a moment in time for metal that transitioned from the quasi-satanic, underground vibe of early 80s metal into full-blown, commercial, Sunset Strip-inspired theater on a stadium scale. All the older bands were attempting to keep up with the younger guns and losing their distinctiveness in the process. I saw Ozzy on this tour and can’t stress enough how much of a contrast presented itself between the MTV-ified Ozzy and the lean, hungry and raw opener, Metallica, who were up on stage with jeans and t shirts, looking not much different than me and my friends at the time. I admit some minor fondness for Ultimate Sin mainly for the memories its now dated sound evokes. But objectively, many of the songs sound too similar and some of the lyrics are just plain ridiculous (“listen to me everyone, if the button is pushed they’ll be nowhere to run”, incidentally, appearing after proclaiming “thank God for the bomb!” Make up your mind, Oz!)

[@thecontrarians2438]

yep agree quite a bit with you! Thanks for the comment!

[@MegaModulator]

Definitely YAY! Great album, one of Ozzy's best!

[@HuddshouseofRockNMetal]

First Ozzy album I ever bought. Liked it then, and still do, although there are a few others that I like just as much if not more. Production could have been better. Jake is fantastic.

[@inmyhouse11]

Ozzy never made a great album after Diary and when Randy died so did Ozzys solo career. Great show guys

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thank you!!!

[@dantana8570]

Bark at the Moon the ultimate sin both great

[@guitargunnarhamburg8766]

both jake albums helped me thru hard times and they are really gooood

[@taranguapo]

Killer album!! Jake smokes on here!! Never understood how this is a contrarian album unless you're just NOT an Ozzy fan. Love the first 2, Bark, No Rest and No More Tears. Ozzy at his best. I can even dig on Ozzmosis and Down to Earth.

[@thecontrarians2438]

i agree with you, i like all those, this one happens to be my least favorite

[@taranguapo]

@@thecontrarians2438 I will say the production isn't great. But to me, the songs are there. 🤘🏼

[@taranguapo]

@@thecontrarians2438 I think it's a pretty consistent album. There's no GREAT songs and no terrible songs. It's an even record. I also think it's the most "80s" sounding album. I don't know, man.. I like it a lot! Always will.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@taranguapo absolutely! I dunno why No More Tears gets soo much hate though so i hear ya!

[@taranguapo]

@@thecontrarians2438 I love No More Tears!! I always see people putting it down because it's "too polished" or "corporate rock" sounding. Nah man, it's just a great album! I don't skip anything on that one.

[@livingbeing1113]

BATM and TUS are my favorite Ozzy's records. And just for Jake's playing and writing alone, with Bob Daisley helping of course. And yes Ozzy's voice was at his best i thought, he was fatter and his voice had this added roundness, power to it, better control. Yeah a great singer he never was, but was blessed with a unique voice. And like two guys here said, Jake was easily Ozzy's best player he ever had. His material is far more intricate and harder to play than others, he was his best shredder. His live performances are insane, so tight and fiery it's unbelievable. Sorry to say, but while great, Randy was put on this nonsensical pedestal because he died young after two awesome records, who had other two songwriters helping (his work in Quiet Riot was very average). He was never on Jake's level as a guitarist, all the super-shredders that came after him in the 80s were far above.

[@michaelfrazia4569]

I never liked how randy was elevated to being equal or superior to evh...playing and technical skill are one thing...songwriting is quite another....randy wasn't an egotistical guy by all accounts...it was fans and the press who always elevate musicians who die young to mythic proportions

[@shredguitar7680]

My favorite Ozzy album, produced my Ron Nevinson….very underrated

[@tragicallymalicious1]

I never really liked ozzy but I really liked the bands he was in. He would be nothing without Bob Daisley, Randy Rhoads, Jake E. Lee, and Zack Wylde. I've never even listened to the last 3 albums he released, its all trash. If I wanna hear that kind of stuff I listen to Black Label Society, Zakk does a good Ozzy.

[@mashtunk101]

This album is so much better than the first 3. Bark At The Moon and Blizzard Of Oz apart from the worst album, No More Tears (anything after doesn't count) are the worst. Ultimate Sin and No Rest For The Wicked are the Pentacle.

[@trencher7]

I like this better than Bark and as much as No Rest just in a different way. Thank God For the Bomb is prob my fave song on the album. Great energy. Maybe because it's similar to Aint Talkin'..., but different enough.

[@willd4731]

I love this album. Definitely in my top four of Ozzy....bark at the Moon through no more tears. Those four. Those are his big four.. The first two I respect because of Randy but it sounds too '70s for me.

[@averyteplitsky885]

Not really a fan of this album, definitely recorded during a real nadir period in Ozzy's life, both from a musical and a personal standpoint. The production is totally cheesy, as was much of Ron Nevison's work during this period (2 much excess for him, 2, lol?!?). Guitars and drums seemed way off after "Bark At The Moon", drummer change notwithstanding, and if not for the preexisting "Shot In The Dark", courtesy of then recent band transplant Phil Soussan, not a whole hell of a lot to get excited about. However, from a conceptual level I can totally get behind the tune "Secret Loser"(but only if parentheses and the words "NOT SO" are added!), 'cause it never fails to remind of my perpetual and complete non-existent, societal UN-status!! "No Rest For The Wicked" really turned his musical boat around but good, not just due to the sonically-resuscitating infusion of Zakk W., but also that slammin' production tandem of R.T. Baker and AOR king Keith Olsen. And one more thing: Ozzy sported more unnecessary make-up than all of the Hair Metal squads and all of the Avon and Mac salesladies during this painful era...

[@thecontrarians2438]

thanks for the comments! Nice to have your opinions! Yes i do agree, i mentioned never and lightning strikes but i also like Shot in the Dark. It was a odd era for Ozzy for sure!

[@E.C.2]

"Killer of Giants" is one of his best songs.

[@MorryB]

Its unfortunate that you-know-who decided to "remix" the first two nearly perfect Ozzy albums, while Ultimate Sin which could definitely have used a better sound was ignored. To my ears, the production on U-S was far too compressed and reverby. Would have loved to hear some of these songs with a more organic sound. I would rank this in last place among Ozzy's first 6 albums, but still better than what he's done since then.

[@thecontrarians2438]

i totally agree with you! 100

[@i3ar310]

Prefer Ultimate Sin over all of his other stuff. Always thought Jack was underrated.

[@thomashubner697]

My first Ozzy album was Bark at the moon. The first concert I saw on TV was in 1984 the German Rock Pop in concert with Ozzy, Quiet Riot, Scorpions etc. Like your one guest said, Jake E Lee is the ultimate Ozzy guitarist for me. Still love his Riffs with all the crazy runs between the chords. And Ultimate sin is by far my favourite Ozzy album. To be honest, the first two albums have a horrible production but I learned to love the songs tje time Tribute came out. So much better than the studio versions. Other than that I think Brad Gillis did a fantastic job on Speak of the devil and No rest for the wicked is a good album. Agreed that Ozzy is one of the most overrated artists in the music business. Saw him more than 10 times live and he is really a bad live singer. On the Ultimate sin tour he was Ok. The album was a mega success here in germany. For three or four years every big rock disco played songs like Shot in the dark and Lightning strikes every single evening. Nice episode!

[@thecontrarians2438]

thanks for comment! 10 times to see ozzy is a lot for the most overrated musician, he must be doing something right!

[@thomashubner697]

Festivals in europe since 1984.Monsters of Rock, Rockfest Barcelona, Metal Hammer Festival etc. Only one of his Headliner tours ( No more tours).

[@crispybits3765]

Jake was Ozzy's best guitarist by a mile imo and I always loved this album in which he was at his peak. I honestly think he could have taken any other guitarist on the planet at this point. It's such a shame that Ozzy and Sharon treat him like shit, especially on Bark at the Moon, and in the end he was better off out of there. But he never went on to have the career that I think he deserved.

[@angusiha]

NAY. I bought it when it was released and I did not like then - I was just 12 at the time - and I still don't like it now. I've heard at my friends last year and all the impressions that I had in 86 are still the same. The only 2 things that were kind of alright were Shot At the Dark (which even at 12 I thought it was more commercial than the rest of the album - but it worked) and the album cover (the age thing was crucial here).

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha ya i have mixed feelings about the cover but it is pretty cool, i had a hard time getting into this one even when i was younger and i was buying up all the ozzy records

[@LITSOUL1]

That album is AWESOME and with Jake E Lee. I don't know wh at some of you are talking about including the HOST.

[@cirjames2540]

NAY-Sounds like they hired a bunch of writers and slapped an Ozzy sticker on the cover.

[@Rabant777]

Sharon and Ozzy screwing over the Overland Brothers for Shot in the Dark is part of the reason I hate this album.

[@shaynewest8757]

I still think it's his best album and Jake was his best guitarist but most of his solo stuff does nothing for me.

[@BrianSherman-TheTVGod]

Every song is good to great...and I'd name Never as my favorite solo Ozzy tune. I do think the mix lets the album down a bit, but the songwriting and performances outweigh the thin production.

[@Ft.Gagiano]

I can agree that It's the last great album. I kinda lost all intrest in all things Ozzy after this.

[@joeldelorge6393]

Yay Strong Ozzy Osbourne album and one of his last truly great efforts.

[@drew.reviews]

I like the record. The production stinks for sure. But I like it a lot better than No Rest. Jake's playing is really good. Conversely, I like the production of No Rest but am not a big fan of the songs.

[@thedarkwizardroom]

Well find the Jake E Lee era looking back alright but mediocre, Personally like the Randy Rhoads and Zakk Wylde eras.

[@jockmctodger]

I like half of it, too much filler

[@pjones8404]

By far my least favorite Ozzy studio album. Where I just loved "Bark at the Moon", this doesn't work for a number of reasons. Firstly, the production is extremely over done. There is too much processing on Ozzy and I am not a fan of the double tracking that is on Jake's playing. That left to right processing actually thins out Jake's sound and makes it less heavy instead of bigger. Second, I can't stand the sound of the drums from the late Randy Castillo. I couldn't disagree more with the notion that the drums are big and heavy. They are extremely muddy and during the fullest parts of the songs, his drums loose their impact and the tone of his toms is very uninspired. I also do not like his snare drum sound! Third, the songs just aren't very good. They are all in the same tempo, same keys even in many cases. I haven't listened to this from top to bottom other than yesterday in decades. And now I remember why.

[@thecontrarians2438]

i actually quite agree about the drums i felt they were a little weak sounding

[@willd4731]

Saying it's your least favorite album is very contrarian. You're saying that everything after ozz-mosis is better than this?

[@pjones8404]

@@willd4731 Let me clarify. I don't own anything past "No More Tears" so it is very probable that there are other albums that I could in fact, like even less. But of the ones I own and have listened to, "Ultimate Sin" is my least favorite.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@willd4731 for me, id actually say its my least fave for the first 6, tied with some of down to earth and ozzmosis, because theres stuff i like better on those two, and stuff i like better on Sin, after that though its no question for me Sin is better than everything after Down to Earth

[@themusicexpress8904]

Nay ,

[@briandunlap8534]

Nay, never liked it. Saw this tour and didn't like it either.

[@vinylrec]

who was the opening act?

[@briandunlap8534]

@@vinylrec Metallica

[@vinylrec]

@@briandunlap8534 I know folklore states that Metallica blew Ozzy off the stage during this tour. When I saw them in Columbus, I thought Ozzy was much better. Metallica sounded like a bunch of noise. Maybe it was the sound mix?? Dunno, but Ozzy was the superior act that night.

[@StraightShooterProductions]

@@vinylrec I saw that tour as well. Metallica were good. Ozzy was great. Ozzy goes out of his way to undermine everything Jake e lee nowadays.

[@guitargunnarhamburg8766]

both jake albums helped me thru hard times and they are really gooood