The Contrarians Panel: Dark Horse Album #4 - Black Sabbath's Never Say Die!

Our Patrons join us for a Yay or Nay vote on Black Sabbath "Never Say Die!" and the results might surprise you!
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The Contrarians is a show where one of us jumps in the hot seat picks a dark horse album from a band as that band's best album. The guest host will argue against them with facts, stats and all around truth, subjective and objective!
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[@thecontrarians2438]

Our discussion panel seemed to be quite liberal with giving Never Say Die! good ratings, are you for or against Never Say Die! Let us know what you would rate it out of 10! Want to join our panel discussions: www.patreon.com/contrarians

[@mikekeeler6362]

I like the album I think it's one of better albums by Tony

[@mikekeeler6362]

And the album cover is one of their better ones most Sabbath album covers are crappy

[@mikekeeler6362]

I remember when never say die came out I worked at a base exchange on a military base I ordered 25 of those when I worked at the base exchange and on guard weekend all 25 of those

[@richmanstrick3220]

Johnny Blade!

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@mikekeeler6362 it's iconic!

[@JCStorm76]

Great album, always liked it, slightly better than Technical Ecstasy which I also really like. It annoys me when people do album rankings for Black Sabbath and rank it right near the bottom. Give me this over an album like 13 any day. Definitely a top ten Black Sabbath album. Hard Road is one of their most underrated songs, it just doesn’t sound like Black Sabbath which may turn some people off. 8/10 for me.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Agreed! I would probably put this one over some of the later 80's and 90s records, even though those ones are heavier and sound more like sabbath in some cases

[@andydigelsomina7888]

Never Say Die was the very first Black Sabbath album I ever owned (saw an ad for it in Creem magazine the month of its release), the only thing I knew by them beforehand was Iron Man, which I liked. Perhaps partly due to the fact of its being my initiation into the Iommic world, I have had high regard for it since that time, in fact I love all the songs except Breakout plus I swing both ways regarding the kind of (imo) malformed Swinging the Chain (Osbourne's entry at the end still is capable of giving me shivers). The only reason I give it 8 out of 10 is because after this initiation I came upon the first six albums and later of course the first two Ronnie Dio albums, and recognize them as being a notable step up. That said, this is in some ways the most musically interesting Sabbath release, ever, and I feel that Tony got a lot more right on this album in this respect than he seems willing to admit today.

[@ronnorry1592]

I agree with Martin. I would give it a 8.5. I love the album. I always felt there was a punk flavour to it, especially with Bill's unhinged vocals in Swinging The Chain. I think Breakout works great as an intro to Swinging The Chain and I enjoy the variety to it. There was no real formula unlike some of the later albums

[@KingLizard616]

For me great album, always love it. There are great songs on it, like: Never Say Die, Hard Road, Junior's Eyes, Johnny Blade and Swinging the Chain. I would give it 7.5/10

[@thecontrarians2438]

awesome! i agree!!

[@chrisware6324]

I love those songs (esp junior’s eyes and Johnny blade) and every song you did not name- esp. Over to you, shock wave, and air dance. Love the sequence of over to you into breakout/ swinging the chain and the production.

[@IraSiegel]

Love this album and Over To You is one of my favorite Sabbath songs.

[@gregpahl7326]

A little late to the party here but just discovered the channel, love the format! Very high ranked album for me as the band is aggressive, thrashy and trying new things. I actually love Tony's guitar sound here, it works to great effect on the almost punky aesthetic of some of the tunes. Johnny Blade actually gives me goosebumps to this day with its menace, story telling and incredible half- time breakdown in the middle; the super heavy riffage and amazing synth flourishes make it a top 10 sabbath track for me. The whole album is easily an 8 for me

[@thecontrarians2438]

Hey thanks Greg! Welcome to the channel! Hope you like the content, and ya I totally agree about Tony's guitars and Johnny Blade

[@paulcropper9655]

I am sure that I read somewhere (possibly in one of Martin's Sabbath books) that the band rejected the cover photo that Hipgnosis originally offered Sabbath. That was the photo of doctors that was used for the cover of Rainbow's Difficult To Cure in 1981.

[@christianman73]

I love this album! For *more than thirty years* though, I avoided it and didn't *even attempt* to listen to it, because so many Sabbath fans are quite vocal in their hatred for it. I thought that if so many dedicated fans of the band hated it, it had to be a terrible album. I was so wrong, and I wish I had given it a chance much earlier! Certain songs remind me of Ozzy's early solo work. I give NSD a 9 out of 10.

[@thecontrarians2438]

awesome! I love it too!!!

[@mikekeeler6362]

I'm a big fan of fan and I never hated it I thought it was great something different than the first fish

[@1jammyjerry1]

I got into Sabbath in the 90's and avoided this and Tech because of their negative rep. Then about 5 years back I started listening to both albums on youtube and the songs on this album grew on me over time, but most of the Tech songs haven't. This album is almost a accidental masterpiece. The only hiccup for me is the track order, but I just play it in the order I like. I'll give it 7.5 out of 10 the way it is. The order I play it in I'd give it 10 out of 10. To me THIS album should've been called Technical Ecstasy!

[@kevinhodgson8508]

I've loved Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy since they were released . For all bands of the late 60's / early 70's it was hugely acceptable to experiment and / or progress where albums were concerned . I was fortunate enough to witness a live gig on the 1978 tour at Newcastle City Hall UK ( this show sold out in one day , the entire tour was sold out in under a week ) . Both Sabbath and Van Halen were absolutely tremendous . VH were fans of Sabbath and both bands got along really well . Definitely one of the best live events I've ever attended .

[@MyMusicCorner]

One thing I meant to add here was how “happy” NSD sounds. If that makes sense. It’s like they kept going with the vibe of Am I Going Insane on the album.

[@lionelraoul]

Nobody does props and visuals like Jamie. His Sea of Tranquility Monster's Den appearances are the stuff of legend.

[@neuroisis85]

Great record, not up to snuff with the og 6, the first two Dio albums, Born Again or even Headless Cross and TYR. Having said that I like it better than all of there other albums. Solid 8/10 for me.

[@drewrose374]

Great point about the running order! I'm going to switch it around and crank it up on the way to work... right off the bat I will definitely kick it off with Johnny Blade and Juniors Eyes and end it with the title track, the middle i would have to think about.

[@TheUnknownBros1]

I agree with Joe! Never Say Die sounds a lot like Boys are Back in Town

[@gilbertgonzalez1365]

I bought the shirt when I saw. It the same one that Tony Stark was wearing during the First Avengers movie. I remember thinking, “I wonder how many think I bought it because of the avengers movie?” When really I bought it because I like the cover. The mask pilots always look cool and creepy

[@SuperStrik9]

Always have had a massive soft spot for Never Say Die!. I like it just as much if not more than Technical Ecstasy. Never Say Die, Johnny Blade, Junior's Eyes, A Hard Road and Over To You are all songs I love. Plus the album cover kicks ass.

[@tookmyjob]

Never hated it and no matter how hard I try, I still like it.

[@rs9003]

I love it...Junior's Eyes, Hard Road, Title track...but Ozzy hates it. I think he believes Sabbath went on a Spinal Tap jazz odyssey with this one.

[@thecontrarians2438]

i think he says he doesnt even remember most of the last two he did with Sabbath

[@shspurs1342]

Have you never listened to any Jazz fusion bands.

[@rs9003]

@@shspurs1342 Spinal Tap on Jazz kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2a4Z6ujrN55htU

[@Norshammar72]

I’m curious as a second generation fan:: A question for you who bought the album in 1978; Did it feel like a “goodbye album” then? Or did it just feel like just a leaser album? What was the vibe like?

[@joebecht5554]

It felt like the end of an era and a changing of the guard, especially with the tour that had Van Halen opening,

[@Norshammar72]

@@joebecht5554 Like VH playing off stage?

[@drewrose374]

I got it for Christmas in 78 (along with Queen Jazz lol...) when I was 10 and I liked it then, and my only three sabbath records i owned was We Sold Our Souls, Vol.4 and TE... I never thought it was a Goodbye record

[@Norshammar72]

@@drewrose374 Cool! Jazz is another great album!

[@mikekeeler6362]

I bought the album when it first came out to 78 I thought it was great

[@zardeh63]

A reminder that a big thing about the guitar sound on the last two Ozzy era LPs is that after four albums in a row with the electric guitars tuned down to C# Standard, Tony is back up to E. Perhaps he discovered the fact that thinner gauge strings were more available because he was tuning down for finger comfort more than just a sound.

[@docvader82]

What an amazing review by Ryan(SBS t-shirt). Martin, this is Docsabbath from twitter(purchaser of many a Popoff novel!!) i'm a Sabbath nut. I like all the eras pretty much(so none of the following statements are a slag on the other versions of the band), but the Ozzy led version reigns supreme, IMO. Yes, the first six albums own and deserve their biblical status. That said, I also love TekEx and Never Say Die. There's a lot of amazing music on these albums. Yes, they're not as heavy, doomy, metal-like. But they are also their most adventurous as far as going into jazzy type stuff. But for those that can't handle that I ask you: Did you listen to side 2 of the debut, or to some of the more adventerous stuff on SabBloodySab? St. Vitus Dance on Vol4? They varied their sound more so than stayed in the mold that is perceived of Paranoid through Vol4. Back then, many a band varied their sound. When did that become a sin? I always cringe when I hear fans(and the band) say they got more musical with Ronnie. Really? Sorry for the Heaven and Hell diehards(I prefer Dehumanizer and Mob Rules anyways, but i guess i'm a weirdo), but I don't think H&H is more 'musical', musically challenging, than NSD AT ALL. May it be the farthest from 'metal' that they got? Sure. But they started as a blues band. I've got the music from the 'earth' days, and i don't feel Sabbath has to stay within the metal box. If I grade the first six anywhere from A- to A+, then I grade TE and NSD solid B to B+, and that is absolutely nothing to sneeze at.

[@thecontrarians2438]

This is Marco commenting... I quite agree with you on most of your points, Oz era is quintessential Sabbath for me, all the first 8 albums are pretty much an A for me but if i had to rank them some would be a bit lower.

[@purpletemple1]

2 Martin Poppof's :-) :-) Never Say Die! is one of the great great Sabbath albums. I've always loved and never get tired of it! It's very elaborate, experimental and yet it's powerful and has the Sabbath sound/vibe. It's in my Top 5 if not Top 3 alongside Sabotage and Master of Reality. Cheers.

[@johnzavradinos4677]

I like it, though it sounds more like precursor to what Ozzy would do solo-wise. My favorite song on it is "Hard Road", I listen to that song a lot, just love it!

[@briankellogg2751]

Good Stuff Guys! My third concert experience was Van Halen & Black Sabbath. Yes, Van Halen were amazing (as they were in the early years when they had something to prove) but Sabbath were legends to me and my 16 year old friends at the time. As an album, I very much like it and I don't find fault with the band trying different things. The variety of tunes is actually cool, and of course Tony's guitar is killer as always. A strong 8.5 to me. Cheers All!!

[@thecontrarians2438]

awesome thank you!! That sounds amazing by the way wish i was there!

[@inmyhouse11]

Todd looks like Martins twin. Great show

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha ill let him know!

[@ToddEvans1964]

I'll take that as a compliment! My wife agrees.

[@daanthing6002]

i've always loved Never say die! Sabbath made 7 fantastic albums with Ozzy. And two mediocre ones (Technical Extacy and 13).

[@sabfan729]

I love it. If you really listen to the lyrics you'll see how top notch they are. Johnny Blade is a great rocker.. As is shockwave.

[@thecontrarians2438]

they're incredible!

[@bicyclelegsmusic]

I forgot to mention to Todd, next month I’ll be doing a video defending Love Beach!

[@ToddEvans1964]

I'm looking forward to that! A different title and cover might have saved that album.

[@shspurs1342]

I have never even heard of an album called love beach. So haven’t got a clue what it sound like.

[@wernermoritz882]

Very good album. To my ears definitely better and more artistically daring than the more commercial Dio era which has always sounded like a different band to me anyway. There, I said it.😄

[@alxf66]

This album did nothing for me for decades. I kept revisiting it and then it finally grabbed me. It's now among my favorites from the band. I do tend to play this album when I'm on a Bill Ward kick, which happens frequently. I still haven't embraced Technical Ecstasy.

[@manictree5436]

The guy in the upper right corner has to stop with the Van Halen bullshit. It depends on the individual. Sabbath blew Van Halen off the stage. Again, depends on what you like. Some people don't care for Van Halen. Ozzy just puts down anything they did from this period. Iommi doesn't.

[@timolson2047]

Never Say Die is Black Sabbath's In Through the Out Door. And that's not a compliment. Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath are my favorite heavy rock bands of all time but man, this is Shit Sandwich. And I hate that I said that because the Ozzy era of Sabbath is definitely my favorite. 5/10. Born Again, that's another story

[@traceda4510]

Air Dance has killer outta nowhere jazz riff middle end of the end of the song.. pretty wicked...one my favorite songs off the album other than the title track

[@williamgainford9332]

I have a real soft spot for never say die - its the second black sabbath i ever owned after technical ecstacy - i had no other sabbath to judge them by - so listened with a clear head - and loved them - others whod grown up on the earlier records judged them harshly !!! - i heard volume 4 etc sometime later - yeah those albums are stronger - but i still love never say die - juniors eyes etc are great songs - the records production is cold/clinical sounding - which i think put people off it - if anything never say die is more together than technical ecstacy - which sounds like random ideas put together - never say die is more coherent sounding - like a band really firing together on their last hurrah.

[@lahloonatic]

What a great episode.

[@thecontrarians2438]

thanks!

[@abdulbasheer8349]

Ozzy Sabbath for me, the 1st 3 albums were in a similar musical mold but since then, each album had something different about it which was refreshing. I liked them. That being said, Never Say Die had the great and the average. The great songs like Johnny Blade and Juniors Eyes propel this album to a 7 for me.

[@drew.reviews]

You guys need to do Daimond Head's Canterbury.

[@thecontrarians2438]

maybe we will!!!

[@deanleslie3269]

Love this album. 8 out of 10 for me. Hate remembering hearing everyone talking so badly about it. The fact that the band were falling apart and the horrible conditions of making the album only magnify how talented the band were. Always trying to be creative....why do so many so called Sabbath fans only seem to want to hear a Paranoid type of album over and over again? I've also noticed a lot of criticism about the "jazzy" elements of this album...what about Wicked World? Is that not jazzy enough for you? But they all love that one,so it's okay. Makes no sense! Another great podcast,gentlemen. The Swedish chap is a very pleasant addition to the group. How come Swedes speak English so well?Looking forward to the next show.

[@drewrose374]

I really like this album. The one thing you got to love about Black Sabbath is they always progressed by never doing the same album twice. The one thing that does bother me about it is the overall sound and production. a Steven Wilson remix is much needed here. and yes I will buy the deluxe edition! lol. Side One for me when I was a kid was worn out! I actually listen to this album more than the first three. my top Three Ozzy era Sabbath albums are Technical Ecstasy #3, SBS #2 and Vol.4 at #1, my rating is 6/10

[@thecontrarians2438]

nice, i love Vol 4 and Master of Reality and everything else is pretty close second to those, i like all the Ozzy albums

[@atlasking6110]

This one, while I like it (6.5 stars) at least I can understand why people don't like it. BORN AGAIN is my pick for most underrated BS album. That one I love wholeheartedly and I will never get people's problem with it. Yeah, the weird production, but the production is a big part of the charm for me. It sounds NASTY in a good way, to me. Not saying I'd want EVERY Sabs album to sound like Born Again, but for that one album it worked.

[@erichert1001]

I don't see how anyone can say this album sounds like the band "going through the motions", seeing as how different it sounds from their previous catalog. "Going through the motions" implies that they're doing the same thing they've always done, which certainly doesn't describe Never Say Die.

[@Protometal66]

I bought this when it came out and although I could tell it was different( I was 13) I really liked it anyway. I didn't like every track but I did like more than half. Still enjoy it today.

[@thecontrarians2438]

awesome! would have been cool to see this as a new release, thanks for the comment!

[@cameramanzoomit]

Great discussion. But the amount of ad breaks in this video is insane!

[@thecontrarians2438]

I think there should only be three no? one in the beginning and two in the middle? to be honest i dont usually watch them again once they're uploaded (especially the ones with editing because i watch them so much before they're up) so I dont really notice, it's nice to make a bit of income but i'll try to limit the ads a bit more, thanks for the heads up

[@cameramanzoomit]

@@thecontrarians2438 You bet. No, they're all throughout. Every 5 to 8 minutes. In the last 5 minutes of the video there were 2 breaks.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@cameramanzoomit wow ok thanks!

[@Katzeninsel1]

I've always loved this album. The only track I never liked was "Hard Road". And many people consider this the best song on the album.

[@darkhymnsfromthecoldnorth]

I disagree when people say that it was just a shoved out there contract fulfillment album. I mean, i could be wrong. But i feel like it's too creative for that. A Sabbath by the numbers album would be more of a straight forward heavy sounding album, in my opinion.

[@thecontrarians2438]

I agree, or a lot more of Rock and Roll Doctor

[@richardhincemon9423]

That describes the 13 album perfectly!!!

[@daicullinane7746]

I quite like this album. Air Dance and Over to You would fit perfectly on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Johnny Blade is the best track on the album. The one track I find doesn't fit is the title track.

[@kevinturchin]

I’d give it a 6. I like to play it a couple times a year and say “It’s not THAT bad”. I like Tony’s guitar work and solos but there isn’t a lot that demands repeat plays. That said when I do play it I have to hear it from beginning to end. I don’t know why it’s just the way it is.

[@jonrhythm3686]

I think the main reason this album got a bad rep was because Ozzy used to shit on it alot. So I stayed away from it for many years because of that and because I never cared for the title track. But when I finally looked it up on YT a few years back- I loved it, and still do. Ozzy's inability to be objective with this album because he was a total mess when it was recorded doesn't stand up. I like it better than Technical Ecstacy. I give this 1 a solid 7.5.

[@infernicide666]

It has some good songs. The title song rules,Airdance was cool and unlike anything they ever did,Johnny Blade was cool. A hard road was good too. The bass is really loud in the mix as well.

[@jimekberg]

One of the best Black Sabbath albums and here is my ranking of them all : 1.Sabbath Bloody Sabbath 2.Black Sabbath 3.Vol. 4 4.Sabotage 5.Master or Reality 6.Never Say Die 7.Mob Rules 8.Paranoid 9.Technical Ecstasy 10.Heaven and Hell 11.Born Again 12.Seventh Star 13.Dehumanizer 14.Eternal Idol 15.Headless Cross 16.TYR 17.Cross Purposes 18.The Devil you Know 19. Forbidden 20. 13

[@b.rogers6996]

Joe hit it on the head that Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules and Born Again are all better than Never Say Die.

[@FundamentalsUK]

I think it’s a good album probably a 7 out of 10, whereas I think TE is sorely underrated as a 8 outta 10

[@mikekeeler6362]

One of the better Black Sabbath albums and I have all of their albums Tom is the first six to put them so much kind of one of those things you don't want to hear him anymore

[@martythemusicmonster6772]

I like Never say Die more than Technical ecstasy it’s heavier with tracks like never say die Johnny blade shock wave juniors eyes

[@FizzzieCat]

Love the album. Lyrically as good as any era Sabbath album (I’m not a fan of Dio cheese lyrics, but loved his voice back then). No other ‘metal’ band were/could/dare be as experimental as this and showcases how good a guitarist Iommi is. Iommi’s guitar sound is wayward in places. On Junior’s Eyes Iommi is using a wah peddle and I guess it sounds like he is keeping it open and it gives a very nasally sound; moreover, I understand he was using solid state amps, if so that wouldn’t help either. 9/10

[@rendumen]

Really cool album 👌 😎 requires more then one listen to judge 7/10

[@timopaakkonen6462]

Just happened to listen to this yesterday! The first half is pretty enjoyable actually, but unfortunately the jazzy B-side still doesn't do it to me. For me this is close to the bottom in their catalogue, but I think the boring '13' must be the real bottom of the barrel. (And yes, 'Forbidden' is not so bad - despite the production.... ;) ) #1 is Heaven And Hell - Dio forever! :D

[@mikekeeler6362]

I like some of the jazzy sounds he's a real good jazz guitar player

[@jcollins1305]

I really got into this album recently after years of ignoring it a la Jaime laszlo. It’s different for sure, but since Sabbath had no so many amazing albums, even a small change can seem like a major mistake. That said, there are songs here that stand with the best of the catalogue, especially “Over to You” “Never Say Die” and “Hard Road”

[@lance98541]

It is the worst of the Ozzy era albums, however it is also easily the most underrated Sabbath album. It has some great songs, but its real downfall is the horrible production and guitar sound.

[@mikekeeler6362]

Low volume four had some bad productions

[@mikekeeler6362]

So would you like it if it was remixed and remastered for a better sound

[@mikekeeler6362]

Because that's not the band that's the producer and the engineer who are supposed to get the sound

[@jayjaytee9944]

Of the 9 Ozzy era albums I rank it above 13, rating 6.5 out of 10

[@mr.timebombman2230]

Love this album. Shockwave is my favorite track

[@shspurs1342]

Out of all the Albums that i have ever listened to. If i was ever asked to choose 1 of them that i thought was the most underrated album of all time ever. My answer would be Never Say Die.

[@Morbidous]

*6/10 album* , Technical Ecstasy 7/10, the older ones go from 8/10 up to 10/10

[@thecontrarians2438]

ya pretty much agree

[@HuddshouseofRockNMetal]

NSD is not high on my Sabbath list, but it's not bad. It has a few good songs. In fact, I like it better than Technical Ecstacy. I'd give it a 6.5.

[@thecontrarians2438]

pretty consistent with out ratings, ive seen some reviewers who are really down on it

[@jimgroff6880]

Chris Alo's very favorite.

[@jmgmarcus808]

Half of tech ech and half of Nsd are really good. They are not bad albums, they both have kick ass moments.

[@DBTdad]

NSD is #10 out of the 20 sabbath albums which includes Heaven and Hell's the devil you know

[@LITSOUL1]

Man wish I could of given my opinion and pitch on this album.

[@naturalthing1]

Much better than Technical Ecstasy

[@mikevillain666]

To me, "Never Say Die!" perfectly reflects the condition of the band structure at that time. As experimentally as one may interpret this work with good will and fan bonuses that they have earned during the glorious years before, the majority of the arrangements seem half-baked and disheveled, which in places degenerates into astonishingly pointless and disoriented jamming for their standards. As significant as it is incomprehensible for me to this day concerning this: "Air Dance" with this addictive entrance riff on this perfect groove. The only moments that seem sufficiently elaborated are - as already noted in the video - the Thin Lizzy-inspired title song, the interestingly constructed "Johnny Blade", whose impact unfortunately falls by the wayside due to the far too thin production and by far the most outstanding song, the one that saves most of the album's status for me: "Junior's Eyes". All in all, however, it is clear how sorely necessary the creative rejuvenation was with the entry of the brilliant Ronnie James Dio at the time, who not only brought the band back on a consistent, focused path, but also on a new creative level overall. If this had not happened, I am still convinced that this band would have come to an end with this work.

[@thecontrarians2438]

wow great points thanks for the comment!

[@Danimal77]

Martin, you need to send Pete Pardo (from Sea of Tranquility) a link to this video. It frustrates me to no end how not only closed-minded he is when it comes to "Never Say Die" but how he just loves to bash this album whenever he gets the opportunity to do so and laughs about it in the process in a very juvenile manner.

[@thecontrarians2438]

lol! I hear ya! to be fair i find a lot of folks are down on Never Say Die! I've seen other reviewers with the same opinion.

[@Bogeyman19Was4BraindeadPeople]

I love Air Dance and Shockwave off NSD.

[@atlasking6110]

My 2 favorites as well.

[@rtm8090]

Did I hear 9/10? I believe that's considered legally insane in some states.

[@thomaswery3087]

Had a very hard time getting into this album.It's not a Sabbath album.I would give it maybe a 3 out of 10 and that's being very generous

[@matthewwigzell2119]

To my ears the only good songs are the title track and Hard Road. They're both great tracks albeit a bit 'upbeat and happy' for Ozzy era Sabbath. The rest just sounds thrown together to me.

[@Almeida5]

I so wish Chris Alo could have been a part of at least this one discussion with The Contrarian's 🤣. I, don't hate this album, but it's just okay. it's not Sabbath's worst album, but not even close to being in the upper echelon.

[@21Piloteer]

Johnny Blade!

[@NP-ip3nj]

One day, Pete Pardo will accept that Never Say Die is a great album.

[@mikekeeler6362]

He had Bill said that he doesn't like the album 13 he just think it's a bad album

[@Malegys]

The production is indeed super weak, especially the drums sound like rehearsal recordings. The whole thing sounds unhinged & lacks any cohesion or heaviness. There's a lot of great tracks on here, but they are totally emasculated due to the amateur-hour production values.

[@charliereese1002]

Juniors eyes

[@Jackylone-]

Love all Sabbath albums! Never Say Die is a very good album, but certainly no Sabotage or Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. But I have to say Reed, I'll take ANY Ozzy era over Dio Sabbath any day! Love Dio and he may be a better vocalist, but Ozzy will always be Sabbath! 7.5/10. The proper thing to do would have been to change the band name back then instead of in the 2000's. (I grew up with Sabbath in the 70's, so yes I'm old, but again, will take ANY Ozzy album over Dio).

[@wernermoritz882]

Same, except that I don‘t love Dio at all. 😄

[@kevinkaple3615]

I like the title track …I’d give it a 4 out of 10 …technical extasy ….gets a 1 out of ten. …what a disaster

[@mikekeeler6362]

Jesus said you hate it being the lyricist he was glad when Dio came in

[@mikekeeler6362]

These are hated being The Lyricist

[@mikekeeler6362]

Yes geezer hated being the lyrics

[@thecontrarians2438]

i have no idea what this means lol

[@mikekeeler6362]

I meant to say geezer didn't like being the lyrics he loved it when Ronnie Dio came into the band so hopefully that corrects it

[@GVarner]

Saw The Tour Sabbath Van Halen and The Ramones not The best Sabbath album from The 70s But I like The Title track Johnny Blade Juniors Eyes Shock Wave Over to you and Hard Road best songs

[@thecontrarians2438]

wow Sabbath, Van Halen and The Ramones! im jealous!

[@williamgainford9332]

8/10

[@darwinblinks]

A cocaine fueled nightmare with a few decent tracks. Dio saved the Sabbath brand.

[@thecontrarians2438]

those Dio records were awesome

[@JohnF-007]

I don't find this album worth while, i would rate it 3 out of 10, this album is usually pretty low, and some would rate it higher, everyone has his own take, but i don't find this record that enjoyable.

[@shspurs1342]

Out of all the Metal songs that i have ever listened to. My favourite is Junior’s Eyes.

[@thecontrarians2438]

I agree! it's one of my favorites!!

[@docvader82]

'Reed" is it? Ozzy is just not a good vocalist? I completely disagree(no disrespect, to each his own). Just because one doesn't follow along that more classical sound of Dio's style, that doesn't mean the other style is 'bad', it's just not to your taste. Can Ozzy carry the same types of notes that Dio can? Absolutely not. That said, to my ears, Dio's renditions of the Ozzy tunes live sound horrible. He didn't deliver those melodies the same way ozzy did, and it just doesn't sound right. I believe melody is Ozzy's greatest gift. Yes, he's always been surrounded by immense talent. However, NOBODY is that lucky to have all the success he's had based on others. I think the melody that he applies to the lyrics that are written for him is once of the main components of his success with sabbath and solo. I worship at the altar of Iommi, Randy was a newer age god, Jake and Zakk are fantastic. But what is most memorable about a great many of those tunes? Ozzy's melody/hook. That's what gets stuck in the head of many. So while Ozzy's contribution to the writing, percentage wise, may be minimal..... that small percentage is one of the most memorable(and therefore important) components of the song. That's what turns good into great, pedestrian into extraordinary. I'm not knocking Dio, I don't subscribe to the idea of dumping on one guy to elevate another. They each have their own specific strengths. In a talent contest, checking off the vocal coaches lists, RJD wins. But I'm more attracted to the uniqueness of Ozzy's delivery. There are more people that deliver notes like RJD than like OO(not saying they can do it as well as Ronnie, but that 'school' is more well known). Apologies for the length of this. This is just one man's opinion. I like all the Sabbath vocalists for their own set of skills, and I think each one of them sounds fantastic and benefit from singing alongside Masters Iommi & Butler, as well as Ward/Appice(and all the other great contributors).

[@thecontrarians2438]

no apologies needed! You should be on the show!!

[@joebecht5554]

Your avatar rules ! Vol 4 is my favorite ! Supernaut is one of my all time favorite songs !

[@docvader82]

@@thecontrarians2438 Me? I don't qualify myself as having the knowledge of you distinguished gents. I am a fairly nutty sabbath fan/collector though.

[@bathtubgeorge]

Sabbath peaked with Sabotage, and Sabotage was an album that contained fair levels of paranoia and anger, and that energy is right there in the tracks as the album ebbs and flows. It's an incredible statement from the band. It's my favorite album. There was always going to be a drop off, and Technical Ecstasy suffers right off. By the time that NSD landed it seems the band have completely lost interest, utterly bored out. Songs are overall OK, rote at worst, the recording is naff, the actually playing is to me phoned in. Juniors Eyes is a good track, as is Johnny Blade but the rest I can take or leave. How the title track because a hit is beyond. Not a good song, and a terrible Sabbath song. For me, NSD is a 5/10 record

[@pjones8404]

Hum...this is a perplexing album. Knowing what we know now about how dysfunctional the band was, it's amazing they were able to come out with anything at all. As many have mentioned, the production is the first thing that stands out. It is thin. Tony's guitar is by far the "weakest" sounding of all the Ozzy era recordings! There aren't the "doomy" riffs that dominated their classic albums. But...I must say Ozzy sounds great and his singing is very strong. Also, because of the guitar sound, Bill Ward's drums come through cleaner and show off some rather spectacular playing. However, the songs just aren't there. The title track and "A Hard Road" are strong but I don't care much for anything else. So for me it is a NAY.....there are just too many other albums to pick from and other than revisiting this today, I don't have a need to hear it ever again.

[@atlasking6110]

I'll be a contrarian - Bill Ward singing sucks. Everybody seems to love it. I cannot stand it. The stupid filler jazz bit, it's stupid filler. And "Hard Road" is the most BORING, pedestrian hard rock imaginable. The rest of the album, I love.

[@thecontrarians2438]

tbh i wish Ozzy sang Swinging the chain, though everyone else seems to appreciate his vocals, I dont necessarily think he's bad, he just sounds more generic than Ozzy does

[@jeffswanson3740]

The title track is decent but other than that a definite NAY. 3 out of 10. I have it on vinyl, anybody want it? Terrible album.

[@drew.reviews]

I'll take it.

[@SabFANationalAcrobat]

I like a lot of Reid's comments, but I disagree that NSD is Ozzy's best vocal performance. I think he peaked in Sabotage.

[@SabFANationalAcrobat]

I remember hearing the "Van Halen blew them off the stage" stuff at the time of Never Say Die, but I took that with a grain of salt. VH was young, had a fresh sound, and was hungry. The Sabs were tiring out, but people still came to see Sabbath, not so much VH. There was no question that VH looked up to the Sabs and that Sabbath was the Daddy at the time. Rock is a young man's game and tastes were changing. If you want to understand what underscored the reaction in that tour, read the lyrics of 'Looking For Today' on the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath album.