The Controversial Disease with Illegal Symptoms

[@Wendigoon]

Use this link to save $5 at Magic Spoon today! magicspoon.com/wendigoon

[@evanorsomething909]

Hi dad, you always make my day when you upload :)

[@Trizzy0001]

First

[@danthegreat4053]

Ok dad

[@CargoCorgi]

Love the stuff Wendi

[@bickchungass6389]

I don't think I will, sorry.

[@bethanywoll7669]

I know a woman who's son was really sick, and although the doctors kept running tests, they didn't know what was wrong. A young doctor accused her of MBP, and she was investigated by CPS, and wasn't allowed to see her son for a week or 2. They realized that she wasn't actually doing anything to harm her son when her absence didn't miraculously cure her son; her remained sick. A year or 2 later he was diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder. But the fact that she had been investigated by CPS was something that remained in some kind of file somewhere, and was like a stain she couldn't get rid of. She later found out the same doctor had accused multiple people of MBP around that time because he had seen a medical drama recently that featured it. There are so many ways that accusing someone of this can ruin lives.

[@Sunoocheeks1111]

That kind of stuff should really get removed from their files or something when it was debunked.

[@abbigailcarr2725]

Exactly, this is what's scary. It absolutely exists but many parents' have had children taken from them simply because doctor's couldn't find the cause or disagreed on a diagnosis. There are a lot of rare conditions that doctors are super ignorant about and sometimes even refuse to look into bc they think it's too rare for anyone to possibly have it, when really a lot of these conditions aren't actually that rare, just under diagnosed. I have a couple rare conditions and I was always so worried about being accused of Muchausen's for refusing to take "you're fine" for an answer when I clearly wasn't fine. I don't care what the tests say, fainting and throwing up every day and having frequent dislocations isn't normal. And when I was a kid my mom was constantly taking me to the doctor for these things and it never escapes me when reading about these stories that this could have been her if it were a few years later, after MBP was more publicized and there was more hysteria about it. In reality MBP is extremely rare and it shouldn't be the first thing people jump to when seeing a mom who's insisting that something is wrong with her kid even though a lot of tests have come up negative.

[@ChrisW228]

Similar happened to my mother. They blamed my serious physical illness on her for being hysterical, seeking attention, etc., but then put CPS on her for allegedly ignoring hearing exam findings and not putting me in a school for the deaf. Now I’m 53, in and out of hospitals for my documented physical condition corroborated by exams and X-rays, and although I wear hearing aids, I have a good bit of hearing still without them. I’ve never needed ASL. It’s like anything else. They find a few people with MBP and think everyone has it. They find a few addicted to drugs and figure everyone must be. My entire life has been a cautionary tale against always assuming the worst of people.

[@davidarundel6187]

Not just false accusations of MBP , but many other accusations which often have no basis in fact or reality , though in delusion is another matter .

[@ChrisW228]

@@abbigailcarr2725 have they looked into migraines? I have non-epileptic (atonic) seizures caused by migraines. I never even knew I was having migraines; there’s a painless variety apparently. But on a 72-hour EEG a neurologist found white spots on my brain and sent me for a week in a seizure study. It looks like I’m just passing out and coming to very quickly, but I’m actually having these atonic seizures.

[@tadsgirl]

Munchausen by Proxy doesn't always involve death. My sister convinced the world that my nephew, who has poor eyesight, was blind. He took classes at our local sight center, had mostly blind friends and was told he would never ride a bike or drive a car. Today he drives and had strong glasses. He no longer speaks to her.

[@eurodara]

yeah, some victims survive

[@tacticalidiots2340]

@@eurodara some? 90% survive. This misinformation in this video is astounding

[@darlenedarlene4560]

@@tacticalidiots2340 i haven't finished the video but of course he's going to talk about the most famous cases which are usually made famous because people end up dying

[@Fogbound_]

@@tacticalidiots2340 Source on "90%"?

[@EternalFinity]

@@Fogbound_ source: trust me bro

[@DarkDuo2]

I grew up in the 90s when this was being discussed. When I was 5, I started showing odd symptoms that concerned my mother. Confusion, staring spells, sudden outbursts about it being "too loud" and memory loss. My mother took me to the doctor and she insisted that nothing was wrong with me and that I was acting out and ignoring adults because I wanted to. several years later, one of my teachers also became concerned about my behavior and told my mom that she believed I was having seizures. So, my mom took me back to the doctor and got the same response and the doctor even told my mother "sometimes we just have to accept the fact that some of our children just aren't as smart as our other children." yeah, you read that right, the doctor told my mom that I was just dumb. That upset her so much that she started taking me to another doctor and we were treated basically the same. Several more years later, I'm 13; and guess what? I had a SEIZURE! My mom took me to the emergency room and after different tests were done, they came back and told my mom that I was epileptic. My regular doctor still didn't believe my mom until they faxed over my EEG results. Then my doctor apologized to my mother and said "I will remove the note from her previous provider that you have Munchausen by Proxy" and that's why it took 8 years for me to get diagnosed with epilepsy. After I was able to start medications I went from a C student to an all A student. I just couldn't ever remember anything because I was having multiple Absent seizures a day. Absent seizures don't cause you to convulse and just looks like you are daydreaming.

[@JustAGooseman]

Who.

[@liviwaslost]

@@EggEnjoyer lol the opposite happened to me lol. The doctors thought I was having seizures but it was just ADHD lol.

[@genericamerican7574]

I had a teacher in high school who I believe was having those kinds of seizures in class. She would have delusional thoughts too and just leave in the middle of the day. One day after waiting for a substitute to show up and not being surprised because it had happened more than a few days and seeing her episodes I asked a specific questions. Is she coming back? A: maybe in a few weeks was the first answer after many idks. I said she would not then. I was asked why. I said a few weeks is an evaluation period and she would not pass. I hope she got the help she needed. Good luck to you too. I am so sorry that happened to you and your mother. It was shameful and lazy care.

[@ABB14-11]

That doctor should get some kind of reprimand!

[@rachaelmessenger1125]

I would have sued the previous provider if I were in your mom's shoes. That's just insulting and you were denied treatment because of it for 8 years. Denying treatment is one thing, but making a note so that other doctors will do the same is beyond medical malpractice, the previous provider diagnosed your mom instead of you, the patient. I'm beyond words

[@YossDillo]

I'm glad you spoke on the whole "diagnosis that implies guilt" bit. There are, right now, a bunch of families in I believe Pennsylvania who are fighting against a medical system, county, and specific doctor who has ruined their lives by diagnosing them with MBP/child abuse, without even talking to them! All they had to do is bring their child to the emergency room-for ANYTHING- and their lives are completely destroyed. A majority of these families seem to be ones with "medically complicated" children, or children proven by several medical professionals to actually have chronic illnesses. These children are denied necessary health care, torn from their families, and in worst case scenarios their family never sees them again and/or someone dies. MBP is a highly dangerous diagnosis, just not for the reason a lot of people think, and I cannot appreciate enough how you went into the nuances of it.

[@pvtspringles]

!!! immediately thought of the take care of maya documentary. mum had to commit suicide for her daughter's chronic illness to be taken seriously, bc a doctor said she had munchausen by proxy

[@AlexB-k4x]

It's really telling that I believe 8 out of 10 female serial killers are involved somehow in the medical industry creepy

[@MrCmon113]

It's crazy how we let psychologists be the cops, judge, jury and executioner.

[@jillax]

how strange is it that it sounds like this “medical professional” actually might have MBP

[@ekaterinaobraztsova4631]

Now this is pretty much a doctor having MSBP

[@acrab6527]

Yeah my mom did that. Poisoned everything she fed me from 1-10. Caught her doing it and didn't eat anything that didn't come out of a can or vacuum sealed container until 13 when my dad got custody. Surprise surprise I stopped vomiting every other day.

[@steffthesensitive4697]

That’s horrible, I’m sorry she did that to you.

[@shell9918]

please tell me she's in jail now

[@kaliland9296]

I hope you're doing okay now

[@cath4566]

holy shit im so sorry she did that

[@fumomofumosarum5893]

@@cath4566 why are YOU sorry? i mean, you didn't tell her to do it, right?

[@regancambridge3413]

The most disturbing part of the gypsy rose case is the doctors giving her chemotherapy when they had no proof she had cancer

[@lollersaqwescfgvh]

Honestly yeah wtf

[@ellisdicaprio]

You have a beautiful name

[@demenobody1099]

i saw a few documentaries on it and i think its more like this: her mum would drug her and drive her around (sleeping pills, etc) and when she came to gypsy was told that she had x treatment, the treatments werent actually done a lot of the time (except some early surgeries). This is what made gypsy think she had all of the problems for a long time, and why she only did something about it near the end (when she found out that she was actually fine or at least didnt have all of the things that her mum was claiming).

[@november1758]

@@ellisdicaprio Simp

[@MsTinkerbelle87]

@@november1758 it’s a kind compliment 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@Hannah-xn2yn]

My boyfriend is a survivor of MBP, his mother convinced him all his live that he was living with severe lupus. She forced him to get ketamine injections, cortisone shots, and all kinds of other treatments. She withheld his medical insurance when he turned 18 and refused to let him see a doctor without her. Finally he was able to get his own insurance and see a doctor without her knowledge: he’s perfectly healthy. Always has been. But it’s incredibly difficult for him to accept that, bc she lied to him and created this entire scenario that he actually started to believe that he was sick. It’s an awful, awful thing and I’m so grateful and lucky that my boyfriend was able to escape it before something worse happened. But I know that’s not the case for everyone.

[@_noodles_169]

Damn sounds just like the movie “Run”

[@anoninunen]

................................................................................................................................................it's never lupus

[@AdDelayed]

Has he considered any legal action? That's just an insane amount of flat out abuse.

[@kikisakura8189]

@@AdDelayed facts, if my mother did that and I finally got away with evidence, Ill be seeing her in court 🤨 but then again, his mother could have shown him love like many parents and he doesn’t sue her or whatever because of the guilt of it. But then again, THATS LITERALLY CHILD ABUSE 🤨🤨🤨🤨

[@Hannah-xn2yn]

@@AdDelayed as of right now no, it’s very difficult for him to see his mother in that light and he is just now even starting to accept the fact that she was abusing him. He recently was able to start seeing a therapist without her knowledge and that has been very helpful for him, but I doubt he will ever take any kind of legal action against her. That being said, personally, I’ve cut all contact with her and she will never, ever be allowed around my children - or I will be taking legal action :)

[@newttella]

the craziest part of all of this to me, is the doctors trying to help. I went to the doctor for 2 years, with constant pain, and they did nothing. It really felt like they stopped believing me. Why is it always the people who don't need help, are believed, and the ones who do, are called liars?

[@-psilo-9071]

It's cause these parents are really insistant and annoying about it constantly looking for new ways to make them seem sick even if they seen healthy to the doctor

[@personzorz]

Because you hear about the ones where it happens and not the ones where it doesn't

[@SarahSkinnyJeans]

Right

[@Parrot5884]

Because stories about doctors doing what they're supposed to do aren't told as often as stories about doctors that don't do what they're supposed to do. Like, you don't hear news stories about parents who give their kids dinner every evening, but you do hear news stories about parents who starve their children.

[@sydneyrobinson63]

fr i get the worst stomach pains everyday and always feel nauseous and the doctor was like “well the results for the tests didn’t come back with anything” and they had me leave im like sooo is there nothing else possible to do all u did was take my blood😭😭

[@direcircumstances]

What happened to Gypsy Rose was on par with someone being held hostage and tortured for over 18 years. Anyone in that situation would be completely justified in wanting to kill the person victimizing them.

[@JimmyHey]

Yes I agree. "Justified in _WANTING TO KILL_ the person victimizing them." But justified in carrying out the murder?

[@amberkat8147]

@@JimmyHey I think so. A person can only be expected to bear so much.

[@margaretconnor5623]

@@JimmyHey Yes because that was the only way she saw escape. I'm sorry, if I was being held hostage and tortured for that long, I absolutely would do everything I could to escape and ensure that person could never keep me captive again. As this was her parent, the only way she saw escape was the death of her captor. So yes. Justified. She was escaping to save her life. Her mother had literally mutilated her body with surgeries she didn't need and would beat her whenever she showed any sign of not being ill. And her mother had successfully created new aliases with no trouble. Who's to say Dee Dee wouldn't have run, changed her identity and showed up months or years later and killed her for escaping? I'm sure Gypsy was terrified that her mother could and WOULD do that. So yes. Justifiable. She was saving herself.

[@Lena-xy8id]

@@JimmyHey I guess it's debatable but yes

[@Tazzie1312]

@@JimmyHey How much torture is a victim obligated to take before killing their abuser?

[@zerox187]

I like the part where after she had 7 children die in her care the adoption agency was just like "here, try this one".

[@bunk-o2495]

I mean, if they genuinely thought that all those deaths were the result of unfortunate genetic accidents, then they probably thought they were being kind. Giving a sad woman incapable of having her own offspring a chance at real motherhood.

[@markjacobs3232]

Never heard the phrase “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me?” After seven times at the very least stop giving her kids.

[@dylanking9646]

@@markjacobs3232they only gave her the eighth

[@MrFunreal]

@@markjacobs3232 YThe dead children were her own flesh and blood. She had given birth to them herself. Only when the one adopted child also passed, did they get suspicious.

[@markjacobs3232]

@@MrFunreal My point being, background checks should be more robust.

[@CallMeFreakFujiko]

"Her own father flushed her ashes down the toilet." That's awful! How heartless do you have to be to not care about your toilet like that?!

[@melvinmerkelhopper5752]

That could clog the system up.

[@kumquat2799]

You had me in the first half ngl homie

[@christinamcduffie4955]

Priceless!! 🤣🤣

[@SamI_Am]

I just laughed so hard it hurt. 😂

[@RadioPsychicAstrologyByPepper]

And then the commode threw up

[@kpturn42]

My mother did this to me and my siblings, but she was a doctor and nobody questioned it. She told everyone around us that we were "low-functioning" autistic, and that we had gotten it from being vaccinated as children. My youngest sibling was never vaccinated for ANYTHING as a result, and we were all subjected to bizarre fringe "cures" for autism that mostly involved chelation treatments that made us sick. She thrived on the sympathy she got for having to "endure" the hardship of raising two "low-functioning" children, and how we were "victims" of Mercury in our vaccines. When people would meet us for the first time when we were growing up they would get very confused and comment on how we were well-spoken/articulate and how smart and observant we were, which was not at all what they were expecting. This eventually led to people no longer believing her. She gave up after a few years, but I can only imagine what might have happened to us if she hadn't lost that sympathetic attention she craved.

[@humphrke]

God that's so awful, I'm so sorry. Not only the mbp in general but like... I'm autistic. Being autistic and having autistic children wouldn't be the end of the world!

[@gemstone108]

As a neurodivergent person, I fucking hate the “vaccines cause autism” mindset. Coming from a DOCTOR too? How do you get through med school and still believe that shit??? I’m so sorry you had to go through that but glad you’re doing okay now. Did your youngest sibling end up getting vaccinated later on?

[@worstusernameintheworld9871]

i never understood how she could ever become a doctor if she's antivax, she's vile

[@Sarah_375]

my mom believes vaccines = autism/ADHD/seizures/etc. so I was never vaccinated. I decided to get my own son vaccinated but she will never know. I’m horrified that if she found out she would try to poison him and say “look the vaccines did that!”

[@mamsirr]

Was your mother a medical doctor? Or some naturopathic doctor?

[@summer_pain]

as a bone cancer survivor, the only thing that makes me more mad than somebody pretending to be chronically ill is somebody forcing their own family to become chronically ill

[@Google-Username]

Man, that must’ve been a bword to endure. My dad passed from it, Ill spare you the details. Congrats!!

[@autumnlynn7517]

I was in complete rage at that part with you. My best friend lost her life from bone cancer and it was a horrible fight. It takes such a strong person to keep going. I’m very proud and grateful you survived tho💛💛

[@evilskateboarder7930]

really? not the holocaust?

[@KMx108]

My doctors thought I was pretending to be chronically ill. I was kicked out of 3 different medical practices for trying to get help and being a "pest." I was finally diagnosed with pernicious anemia. Some doctors are really dumb.

[@LadyLithias]

Congratulations on being a survivor. As a child, extremely sensitive to cigarette smoke, I was miserable throughout the winter. Our heating plan was the fireplace, and closed windows. But when you live in a 900 sq. foot brick house with five people who smoke a pack a day (in the late 1970s), and you close all the windows, it's absolutely miserable. I remember sitting outside in the rain as preferable to being in the house with all that cigarette smoke. When I was sixteen we learned that it was a genetic issue that made me deeply sensitive to cigarette smoke. I'd had bronchitis and pneumonia multiple times ever since my oldest sister started smoking. I can still remember my mum smoking a cigarette and saying "If I'd known it was harming you I definitely wouldn't have ever smoked around you." .... to be clear, she didn't stop smoking then, even though I was still living at home. I was very grateful for the chance to live my own life. Hubby and I were so happy, and I just loved the clean air. Then dad got older, mom died of cancer (shocking) and finally dad didn't want to live alone any longer. So he bought a lovely house with plenty of room for all of us, and that was great. Except then my older sister was unhappy with her man, and dad was descending into dementia, and he decided to solve sis's problems by having her move into the house with us. And she smokes. I suggested she go to the shop to smoke, about a 100 yards away from the house. But she doesn't want to risk falling and hurting herself, so she smokes right outside our front door, and steps in before exhaling after her last puff of cigarette, and only smokes partial cigarettes, so often brings the newly extinguished butt into the house. So my health has steadily declined for the 7 weeks she's been here. It's absolutely distressing that I'm required to give up my health just so that she can have her vice. She has pointed out that I have bad habits too, but I tried to point out to her that my drinking too much mountain dew, or spending time on the internet has zero chance of impacting HER health. (She's 57 years old now)

[@inexena]

I work at the pediatric emergencies ward at the hospital, and there was this woman who would bring her toddler in almost every week for "vomiting blood" Every time we do tests on the little guy, it turned out that he was completely fine, so we suspected that he might have severe acid reflux. But he didn't have any of the other symptoms while we had him stay at the hospital.. I wasn't there when this happened, but she brought him in once and the boy was not only vomiting blood, but also had pooped blood. It turned out that the woman would grind glass shards into powder, and mix them into her son's food so that he would be sick, and she could take him to the hospital. I live in a country where healthcare is free, and you get food and drinks if you stay at the hospital with your kid. The woman was homeless, and she did this whenever they had nothing to eat, so that she would stay at the hospital and have a warm meal. I don't think this is an example of that mental illnesses, but it's still a heartbreaking story all around.

[@matthewford6715]

Jesus that's sickening. Thanks for sharing man.

[@210jayp]

cokay

[@groobs]

Oh my GOD 😱😱😱

[@kayleeleeferink3842]

Selfish not to eat the glass herself, devastating that eating glass is on the table

[@Channel-23s]

Don’t you have cps to stop that or cops to you know make sure there aren’t homeless kids

[@randomdude-4353]

Imagine trying to beat some allegations and a doctor pulls up and diagnoses you with guilty syndrome

[@jahcode6132]

That's what I was thinking. Imagine being on trial for something like Insurance Fraud and you are about to beat the case. They call in an MD Psychologist who says "According to my careful research this man clearly has Committing Insurance Fraud Syndrome, a rare mental illness that I discovered and only I can diagnose people with. People with this illness will always commit insurance fraud." The jury goes "Good enough for me. . .GUILTY" BFFR

[@sashametaxa6512]

Frrrrr like bruh this clearly sounds like an insane level of narcissism. You’re telling me someoen that’s poisoning SOMEONE ELSE in order to garner attention and seem like a savior ISNT a narcissist? Not a psychologist, just an opinion

[@xXJLNINJAXx]

Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason we have such large amounts of growing mental illness is because of modern psychologists and how female "vibe" esque treatment methods have become. I'm pretty sure they largely support bs like "your truth", which is a pretty good sign they're not being very scientific these days. No wonder many other scientists tend to look at psychologists as lesser. Such a shame too since i love psychology.

[@chickensalad3535]

@@sashametaxa6512I agree. Narcissists live only for power and attention as their supply.

[@bencrawford7640]

Nice boognish bro

[@lyn.m.stuart965]

I used to live in a small town in Iowa and we had a young girl who, when she was four, her mother told everyone she had cancer. I was in girl scouts at the time and even though she was too young we initiated her into the scouts and hosted many fundraisers for her treatment. The little girls name was Riley, and by all appearances she had cancer, she lost her hair, appeared very pale and sickly and even had a feeding tube. Our community, being so small, she was very well know and was sent to disney world and initiated as a firefighter. I still remember when my mom sat me down and told me that her cancer had progressed too far and she would not survive. (Also because we lived in a small town they would have to drive multiple hours to get to anywhere that would be able to treat her, which is why it took so long for anyone to find out). When she was in kindergarten, (she was in the same class as my younger brother and he remarked about how the teacher let her sit in a beanbag chair becuase the regular desks were uncomfortable for her) someone decided to call the hospital where we were told she was being treated to set up a suprise for Riley while she was staying there. The hospital staff told this person that they didnt have any cancer patients under that name and thats when the police got involved. They found out that everything had been faked and her mom had been giving her medicine that made her extremely sick and that other than that Riley was completely healthy. It was a huge deal and I remember talking to people about it on the playground and people spreading crazy rumors about Riley and her family. Her mother was convicted and served jail time and last time I saw RIley before I moved, she was very happy and healthy and her hair had grown out into a cute pixie cut. I didn't realize how often this kind of thing could happen until I watched this video, and a lot of the stuff makes a lot more sense now. So I just thought I'd share the story of RIley as a personal experience of mbp

[@brokenquill9277]

My mom got accused of this because I had untreated hydrocephalus with absence seizure that lead to becoming partially blind. They diagnosed me with EVERYTHING from bipolar, autism, and just plain attention seeking. A simple CAT from a pediatric nurse cleared up everything. But nothing will fix the loss of my sight or other permanent disabilities. Nor my mistrust of doctors, I spent so many years being called crazy and a liar. My mother was also called a liar. They even apologized. And we of course were too poor to sue.

[@daytradersanonymous9955]

Modern medicine is nothing but a profit machine.

[@wobbywoo]

why were they taking you to behavioral health personnel vs an actual pediatrician?

[@midnyghtryder.]

Pro Bono lawyers would've helped you. They only charge you if you win.

[@doorsareforopening]

Damn, modern medicine isn't perfect but I hope they'd start with a CAT scan nowadays, at least

[@dhesyca4471]

​@doorsareforopening unfortunately, with the way the US health system is, CT scans are not the first line because of their cost to the patient. That's even if insurance chooses to cover the bulk of the cost. However, a good doctor would listen to their patient and not call them a liar. I'm so sorry OP experienced such poor treatment.

[@AlephTroll]

Gipsy killing her mom “Dee Dee” and then the ashes being flushed down the toilet by Dee Dees parents is the kind of justice I wish we saw more in these cases

[@sulsulsonny6339]

My favorite thing ever! I remember her family saying nobody even wanted her ashes in that documentary, forgot the name but I know exactly where this is from!

[@FreyjaShartSquad]

damnn, I didn't even know about deedee's parents flushing her ashes but it was deserved, Gypsy was tortured for so long and I'm grateful she's getting out of prison soon.

[@juannaym8488]

I feel like death isn't a real punishment. It's just lights going out, no feelings, no pain, no nothing. Letting someone rot in a cell by themselves for decades sounds so much worse and so much more just

[@musiquefrique]

Deedee gonna burn in hell Ans be ripped apart by demons for eternity for what she did to this poor child!

[@JimmyHey]

There isn't an option for DeeDee to go to prison and at least try being rehabilitated? Murder is the only viable solution here? Am I the crazy one here for thinking if Gypsy had the time to plot her mother's death, meaning that although she feared for her life, her life ending wasn't an immediate threat, she also could've told Nicholas to take her away and plan her escape instead of her mother's death, go to the authorities, tell them about the situation, get DeeDee behind bars? Give her a chance for rehabilitation and if she doesn't get better she can rot in a cell.

[@0ctoPop]

I really think that MBP is a pattern of abuse, perpetrated by someone who may or may not have a mental illness. That mental illness should be the thing that is used to determine whether or not a person is legally responsible for their crimes, not the nature of the crimes. And Gypsy was absolutely acting in defense of her life, while I understand the point of view that she had other options, I think it's oversimplifying a situation that most people truly cannot comprehend.

[@schrodingerscat3741]

most people just do not understand how many options abuse and poor mental health remove from the equation.

[@indiemacabre9777]

See, I halfway agree with that-but MBP is the mental illness that may or may not cause medical, psychical and emotional abuse in that way. Mental illness should be taken into consideration when someone is standing trial, because regardless of the severity of your illness, you are still an adult who is capable of understanding right or wrong as well as acting accordingly. There are very few situations where severe mental health issues will excuse awful behavior.

[@diablo.the.cheater]

@@indiemacabre9777 I mean, there are plenty of mental illnesses that make you not capable of understanding right from wrong and acting accordingly

[@brooklynnmcloud1470]

I don’t know if she had a lot of other options. She had tried to ‘runaway’ from home. But had no legal documents to prove she was above 18 and she was returned several times by the police. Her mother claiming that she was a minor and too mentally impaired to take care of herself.

[@pug_frost7246]

because of the abuse and control her mother had over her, you have to wonder if she knew she had options. I mean she was being poisoned, mentally and physically being held back, and wasn't allowed to be open to anyone about her situation except for online to some random who clearly didn't have great mental health himself. You just have to wonder if she really knew what was happening and if she could get out of it and get help. No telling what her mom told her. About all the stuff they got for her being sick, her mom might have told her she'd get in trouble for lying if they knew she could walk. The fact she said she feels freer in prison makes it pretty clear how controlled she was.

[@LokiMartin]

When I was 19, I was diagnosed with a chronic illness. During one of my hospital stays a few years ago, one of the nurses taking care of me approached one of my doctors and stated that she believed my mother had MBP and was making me sick because of how much she knew about my medical history, how attentive she was to me and how my mother was my only visitor. It took so much to prove that my mother knew so much about my medical history and spoke to the doctors about it because I have Autism and Anxiety disorder, so it's hard for me to advocate for myself, so my mother would step in where I was afraid to.

[@Zarathustran]

Sea autism fever effect. It's MBP

[@faye5159]

I never even considered MBP being mis identified like this. My mom is and always has been my biggest advocate because I have a lot of anxiety issues and have a hard time speaking up for myself and properly communicating what I'm trying to say to people I'm not familiar with (although it's better with age). I would need someone to come with me to lots of things because I needed someone for support and communication, and she was always that person for me. I'm really sorry this has happened to you, and I hope your doing better now

[@HyperWraithAL]

@@Zarathustranhuh?

[@asher4543]

​@@Zarathustranyou are delusional

[@OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO00]

​@@faye5159See "Take Care of Maya".

[@InvaderGIR98]

I don't blame Gypsy at all... the feeding tubes, the oxygen, the ear drainage, the having her saliva glands removed and so much more... it feels like something out of a horror novel

[@ryankneen6763]

Like the movie “run”

[@_thebananaman]

@@ryankneen6763 run was actually inspired by the gypsy rose case

[@velyn2053]

love you to death was the "retelling" of that case

[@humanconsumer2864]

Completely agree. I feel no guilt for that disgusting person. She has every right to kill her.

[@barbarafaulder9087]

Losing her teeth. Monster

[@CanadaxNetherlands]

my favorite phrase is that mental illness is an explanation not an excuse, and people still need to be held accountable.

[@ginjaninja7147]

mine is "your mental health might not be your fault - but it is your responsibility"

[@CarmsCelestia]

And that mentality is why American schools are called shooting ground

[@mrianwonder6527]

I ptrefer reality, where people are not criminalised for being sick. Society is broken and tries to lay blame on individuals who are controlled by it.

[@lmaobox4068]

@@mrianwonder6527 I prefer our reality instead of the alternate one you live in The reality where people are conscious human beings that can make their own choices as sentient individuals free of "cOnTrOl" from an outside source The reality where the aggressor and therefore criminal is brought to clean justice no matter his or her disadvantage So many are readily waiting to get or fake a mental illness in order to justify their atrocities Its a reason for treason but far from a justification

[@aazhie]

@@mrianwonder6527 That says nothing on where you would stand with Gipsy Rose. Would you side with her abuser, or with a desperate young woman trying to escape the abuse?

[@rothnirtull4254]

Unfortunately I was a victim of this, as my mother had this by proxy and played it on to me. It is an awful experience that does horrible damage. It's good to see this is being brought to light.

[@crestothegecko6279]

@Atom fuck off bots

[@P-P-Panda]

Glad you made it out!

[@ElegyVio]

@Atom Jesus Christ is the truth reach out

[@TheLocomono9]

If I may ask what’s the end of this? Is she in jail or free or remorse? Sorry if that’s to invasive

[@trige000]

Anyone else hate their mother? I do, alot.

[@Donkeybutter03]

Watching this after Gypsy Rose is released adds a little bit more of a good ending for her story and I’m happy for her to start her life.

[@Donkeybutter03]

(Rewatching)

[@TheReluctantVlogger]

Totally. I was happy to hear him say she was more or less justified in what she did. It’s very easy to understand her reasoning. The whole thing is tragic and I sincerely hope she has a wonderful life moving forward.

[@LizLuvsCupcakes]

@@TheReluctantVlogger Honestly, I feel like she could write a book, then just change her name and collect her royalties in privacy and peace. I'd read it.

[@Cedawood]

Yeah, shes got some weird issues that make her a liability, but i s'pose she would after her life.​@OldHoTrollin

[@m0xxie-pr7ju8ex4u]

@OldHoTrollin ...i hate to be the one to tell you this but, nicholas was the one who manipulated her? he told her that he could protect her, would always protect her, and would kill for her, he said he had an "evil personality" (fake DID), gypsy had stolkholm syndrome, and the fact of the matter is that if dee dee wasn't killed, then gypsy would've been trapped in that hell of a life till she was so operated on she was barely a person. nicholas presented the idea of killing dee dee, made the plan, told gypsy what to do, say, and look for, and did it all on his own, convincing gypsy that it was right. AND IT WAS. DEE DEE DESERVED TO DIE. also nick wasn't learning disabled! ^^

[@medicinaemdia4895]

54:46 honestly it depends pretty much on the eye of the beholder. Gypsy should not have been sent to jail, but she said in a interview that jail felt way better than her home. That really is saying something.

[@karentucker2161]

It was sad to me when she had said that.

[@kellabdjfoo]

ikr

[@theeccentric7263]

I think people don’t understand her perspective simply because they haven’t experienced that level of abuse. I’ve been in situations where I’ve had to consider some really effed up actions to get out of it. You would survive too. That’s the nature of humans.

[@raskullsshako]

DAMN that’s how you know it was bad for her.

[@minnowartscrafts]

She also goes by Rose now

[@angelicMonster]

very little pisses me off more than the fact gypsy is in prison for murder. i've said it before and i will say it for as long as i live: if all other options of escape have failed, it is self defense to kill your captor/abuser. if gypsy hadn't killed her mother, her mother would have slowly poisoned her to death and take the insurance money

[@screamingopossum7809]

A lot of the people who are victim blaming Gypsy disgust me. "She shouldn't have killed her mother." yes she absolutely should have. She either spends her life in prison or spends the rest of her shorter life span taking medicine that's poisoning her, having medical procedures done to her that she doesn't need, and being tortured by her mother that doesn't care about her. Gypsy was dying and saved her life by killing her mother.

[@stan8479]

@@screamingopossum7809 I feel like there should be a healthy middle ground between both ideas. Is murder good? No. If possible, murder should be avoided. But is it possible for me to sympathise with Gypsy? Absolutely. To me, what she did seems like nothing more than an attempt at escape. She herself has said that her mother would've been a great mother for someone who was actually sick... I think it illustrates how far Gypsy was pushed. I don't think she should have gotten ten years, I think she would have benefitted more from extensive therapy.

[@screamingopossum7809]

@@stan8479 Honestly, her going back into society is going to be the hardest years of her life. She's going to need extensive therapy if she wants to have a family. I'm not saying she NEEDS a family, but if she WANTS a family she's going to have to get over a lot of trauma. It wouldn't surprise me if she goes back to school to get an education, or if she's working towards it in prison if they allow her to. Murder isn't good, but some people have no choice BUT. If Gypsy was caught by Deedee who would know what she would have done to Gypsy. Knowing Deedee, Gypsy could have ended up paralyzed or perminantly mute. If I remember correctly, Deedee WAS a nurse. Her knowledge on medicine stretches far beyond a lot of people's. Gypsy would have ended up dying from the medicine she was taking that her body didn't need. If you look at pics of her then vs now she looks so much healthier physically. Granted, we don't know what health issues she'll have down the road due to the meds.

[@stan8479]

@@screamingopossum7809 Yeah, I'm in agreement with you. From what I know, her mother abused her really severely, so it's no surprise that she felt like murder was really the only way. The way she talked about living a normal life in prison gave me chills. By all means, prison shouldn't make you feel like you're living a normal life... but I guess Gypsy's "normal life" was so horrific, jail is like a million dollar vacation to her. I hope she recovers eventually.

[@StonedHunter]

@@stan8479 it also needs to be considered how deep the lies Dee Dee told the rest of the world about her daughter. That woman ensured that no one would EVER believe a word out of Gypsy Rose's mouth about her situation.

[@brokenfoxproductions]

Tbh, I'm actually glad you talked about this topic. I do believe that munchausen syndrome, both classic and by proxy, is real, but I believe it is also over diagnosed. I have a condition called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome type 3, which is a connective tissue disorder in which the body doesn't properly create collagen. It causes (for me, there's a million possible symptoms) frequent joint dislocations and other muscular/joint injuries, easy bruising, seizures, digestive ulcers/digestive bleeding, migraines, hernias, heart problems, chronic pain, and many other problems. My mom was a registered nurse who later became a disability and medical malpractice attorney, and she was repeatedly accused of hurting me when I was growing up, starting at age 4, because I kept dislocating things, pooping blood, and other horrible problems. I was put into countless hospitals, foster care, ect because people kept assuming that my mom was making me sick, but I didn't get better when I was away from my family, I got worse. It took me over a dozen endoscopies and colonoscopies, a spinal tap, and my half sister on my dad's side (not my mom's child) getting diagnosed with EDS for someone to finally biopsy my muscle tissue and preform a Beighton score test on me when I was in my late teens, which revealed the truth. It took 15 years to get properly diagnosed. There's actually an entire organization called Fractured Families that help with legal aid for people who are falsely accused of harming their children or are accused of having Munchausen's despite them having a diagnosis of EDS or Marfan's syndrome (another rare connective tissue disorder) which explains their symptoms. I wish more people would understand that, yes, sometimes people are actually being harmful, but sometimes they're telling the truth and they're just sick and undiagnosed, and accusing them of faking it can kill them. My dad, uncle, and grandfather all had heart attacks before age 50 because of complications from EDS after years of being accused of faking it, and my dad and uncle died in their 40s from it. They could have gotten help years earlier and would have met their grandkids if someone would have just stopped and tried to understand what they were going through rather than just accuse them of pill seeking or self harm. People deserve better than that.

[@jlbeeen]

I'm on a wait list to get tested for EDS as I meet the criteria for the hypermobility type, but since my dad and his mom could all sublux their hips on demand, they never thought it weird that I could or that I could hold my foot up to my head as a kid and pretend it was a phone. I was accused of overreacting, just being too sensitive, making it up... Some of my current symptoms that have gotten worse, like rectal prolapse being a part of PMS, and having to get a physiotherapist to put my neck back into place, aren't things I can fake. I also get allergy-like reactions to certain chemicals, from migraines, to difficulty breathing, to rashes. Most commonly it's with cleaning supplies and scented things like laundry detergent, perfume, and chlorinated water to name a few. My grandmother, the same one with hypermobility and gluten intolerance had the same thing, so I think EDS is the link connecting those things together as digestive issues and allergies seem to be common. But no one believes me since they haven't had the joint pain I have. Yet my dad had surgery on his hands for joint issues, and my uncle had his whole jaw wired shut because he had issues with it. It sucks not being believed, and it's hard because where I am, specialists take from 1-4 years to get into for non-urgent care, so a lot of us turn to the internet. I found out I had ADHD due to the internet, and then convinced my dad to pay for a private diagnosis so I could get help in university which has been very useful and I'm glad he agreed to pay for that as meds help, as well as extra time to finish tests. I'm glad nothing ever happened like my parents being accused, probably because they were divorced and I saw both often, however a lot of my issues and ADHD were blamed on the divorce. I'm still trying to figure out what works, but I really wish it was easier to get tests for things not just believing parents because they're older, or having doctors prescribe a painkiller and call it a day.

[@lillianmonet5952]

@@jlbeeen I'm another person with hEDS and ADHD (along with bipolar 1) and I just found out about both this year. It's incredibly hard. It's nice to be able to relate to someone, so thank you for writing this.

[@alwaysjordan7032]

I am uneducated and have a question… do they test your blood and find whether or not you have it that way? Or is it a series of tests?

[@madiv2098]

@@alwaysjordan7032 also a fellow eds sufferer here, so far it is only diagnosed clinically utilizing things like the beighton scale as there’s no test that shows markers for this in the blood. it’s important to recognize hypermobility itself isn’t an issue but when it intrudes on your life. lots of people can be “double jointed” and not experience pain or consequences from it. often it takes another thing to trigger the issues that you see with EDS, which is why so many of us have say POTS and/or an autoimmune disorder for example. when the body struggles to hold itself together, a domino effect happens and one thing leads to another. this can end up looking like a person is just “complaining too much” and thus maybe making things up when in reality if you think about it it’s just a cascade of the body reacting to EDS/the thing that triggered EDS symptoms. sorry for the long response to your very simple question 😆 i’ve been chronically ill for 12 years and always want to share my knowledge with people.

[@kindauncool]

Lol

[@baby_bear]

Before i was a year old, i developed a staph infection that ate away at my bones and joints. My mom took me to the hospital a dozen times saying something was wrong and they just did simple tests and treated the symptoms and sent us on our way. They accused her of having MBP and treated her like a monster. But i stayed sick and she kept bringing me to different doctors to try to fix it. The final time she took me before i was diagnosed they said I would've been dead within hours if she had stayed home. Just- look into cases. Even if it is MBP, don't just send the kid home with an abuser. Put full attention into every case because some illnesses are sinister and will hide under other symptoms

[@phibs2276]

My mother is a psychologist and saw at least two cases of this throughout the years. She said she realized it was Münchhausen by proxy when one mother told her 'the doctors will never figure out what my child has!' A big part seemed to be the feeling of importance at being smarter than trained medical personnel

[@sanai97]

Antivaxxers be like

[@laddiebuggie8018]

A doctor is a human, and anyone can be smart without common sense so there’s always reason to have doubts in something misunderstood, but facts about a drug or human’s molecular biology will never change.

[@garrettromer8499]

@@laddiebuggie8018 r they really that smart though if they don't have any common sense?

[@conscioussleeper5619]

@Phibs did your mother alert someone or she couldn't do that cause of patient confidentiality?

[@r3bs]

But how did your mom know they had it? Doctors not knowing what a rare condition is and dismissing their patients is so much more common than Munchausen.

[@aussiegordon847]

I was once the babysitter of a kid that was a victim of munchausens by proxy. After becoming pretty certain of it, I told the police, and by the time they got there the mom had ‘beaten the demons’ out of the kid with her bare hands until he died. He was 3 years old. I still kick myself for not going as soon as I suspected something.

[@longshlongsilvers6650]

that is not your fault and please dont let that weigh on you i get it wanting to be sure instead of just accusing a parent of something and im glad you went to police anyway so she could hopefully be punished you did a good job

[@Natso_1]

^

[@sourgreendolly7685]

^^ You didn’t want to accuse someone right away, that’s not a bad thing. The only person at fault is that “mother”

[@dartoney]

Sounds sus

[@hypnotised-clover]

@Atom The fact that this bot is posting this as a reply to a comment about the death of a child...

[@CryptP]

Gypsy Rose Blanchard looks so so much healthier now, and knowing the American prison system, I think it says a lot about how much damage DeeDee was doing to her health

[@lexyshannon9428]

No literally! A mother that was somehow more restraining and conforming than the US jail system is like... 👀

[@kylebear8101]

She actually said in interviews that she’s felt more free IN JAIL than with her mother…

[@lexyshannon9428]

@@nachgeben well i guess im talking more about the fact that the system doesnt really focus on actually rehabilitation or improvement, its just sort of being held there against your will while you dont learn much from your actions

[@bitchwormpuddin1499]

@@nachgeben nobody said that dude

[@cheeto.burrito]

@@nachgeben The american prison system hires guards that tend to get off on abusing prisoners or abusing their power in other ways. :) We don't gauge bad things _only_ by comparing them to worse things, that's absolutely idiotic.

[@ajmantis]

I had crohn’s disease as a kid but no one advocated for my symptoms besides me and my mother. once I was finally diagnosed after 5 years, I had a flare up with ulcers a couple years later. instead of just giving me some simple tests, they put me and my mom in therapy because they thought she had MBP, automatically assuming we/she was lying even though I was literally already diagnosed. MBP definitely does happen but I think it unfortunately contributes to sexism in the medical field especially for kids who can’t speak up for themselves who only have mama bear on their side.

[@cleob9956]

That must’ve been so incredibly traumatic for you and your mother😢

[@bencarlson4300]

Thats such a dumb thing for them to do because it’s easily provable one way or another. If you didn’t have symptoms, then they could use their findings as evidence against her, and if you did have symptoms then they treat you. Turning a simple medical situation into unnecessary drama.

[@Zarathustran]

Probably because pediatric Crohn's isn't a thing, "Mama Bear"🤢, and using your proxy's account to post about sexism doesn't make it one.

[@KH-rt3ef]

@REGjr Why is pediatric Crohn’s disease “not a thing?”

[@angelabailey8130]

@@ZarathustranYes, it is? Where are you getting this information from?

[@allilee2523]

Doctors believed my mother had MBP when I was a baby, I was 13 pounds at a year old. They kept telling her she was over reacting or attention seeking. Mainly because she did a lot of research as a pre med student, and kept insisting it was this very specific heart defect, and she even pointed out all the various symptoms I was showing, and eventually built a family tree showing all the various deaths during infancy due to heart defects in our family tree lmaoooo. Lol turned out I had that extremely rare heart condition, and was actually the first infant to have the specific surgery I had done, the film they took of the surgery is still shown in surgical classes and labs today!!

[@fionafiona1146]

My grandmother babysat a child diagnosed with hemophilia at age 3, after she and the mom seperatly took the child to the ER and the amount of brusing had them flagged for childabuse.

[@thatonemom1415]

Sadly it’s lunatics like the ones mentioned in this video that give wonderful, attentive parents a bad reputation with doctors. My son has difficulty gaining weight as a baby, no matter what we did. Even “weight gain” formula didn’t help. The doctors brushed off my concerns for years, accused me of just not feeding him enough. Turns out after testing, he has allergies (dairy and wheat) which were causing inflammation & making in difficult for his body to gain weight. 🤦‍♀️

[@ABB14-11]

Your mom's a class act you know that?

[@maevem316]

Yeah, the "knows too much about their symptoms/illness" requirement seems like it could get dangerous with people who literally just did the research on their problems to better advocate for themself/their child with their doctors (an actually good thing to do)

[@cici736]

Is she a doc now?

[@13feralcats]

Gyspy Rose had actually tried to escape before but her mother found her. She saw murdering her mother as the only way out. In her mind, it was self defense.

[@dicknbollocks]

honestly, it was the only way out. what else could she do? call the cops? noone would believe her. everyone knew about her and her 'health problems' and no cop would believe that such a caring and loving mother would fake her kid's illness. everyone loved Dee and Gypsy. every cop in that community would've just assumed that they got into some argument and leave. god knows what Dee would have done to Gypsy in that case.

[@kenthuang436]

The sad thing is it was either Gypsy or her mother that had to die for the medical nightmare to end as it was pretty clear that law enforcement weren’t looking into things after the anonymous tip was given. My theory is it was either Dee Dee’s father or Gypsy’s dad that filed it as they would have definitely known that Dee Dee was forcing Gypsy to fake being sick and her real name.

[@audiemation]

It was self defense

[@meganlee162]

I’d say it was self-defense, period.

[@raidenthekat2444]

Not sure id agree with that. Obviously we can never truly understand her mindset, as we aren't her. But I feel its far to lenient to simply say. "Oh, her mother was a big mean scary monster so she had to kill her" Not how that works. She doesn't have the right to kill someone else because she was to weak to run away. Also to weak to even deal with the issue herself. Got someone else to do it. Funny how she was brave enough to literally convince some poor sap into killing her mother, but she couldn't just run away.

[@Aliandrin]

100% it was self-defence. We all know what would have happened to Gypsy had she not killed her mother. She *did* try to tell people. It was probably her calling the police with the anonymous tip.

[@screamingopossum7809]

Also if she told the police, there's a high probablility of them not listening to her because DeeDee kept telling people "She's got the mind of a 7 year old". There were multiple medical records shown that said exactly that. So they're not really going to listen to someone who's medically not all there.

[@michaelmyers7425]

Well, it didn't help her case that she had sex immediately after the murder in the next room with the mentally deficient young man she had manipulated into doing the murder for her. She was turned on by the killing.. She's a psycho just like her mom. The apple didn't fall very far.

[@SurroundedSita]

@@michaelmyers7425 except she had spent her entire life abused and denied basic emotional support. There are many instances of people seeking that emotional support in harmful ways because they were literally never taught/shown any better.

[@vogonp4287]

@@michaelmyers7425 How do you think she ended up that way?

[@btsnake]

She could've walked away. It's that simple. So no, that's not enough for self defense with deadly force. It's absolutely murder. By that token, if someone sells you expired food, you might as well say you're justified in shooting them too.

[@sapphosgirlfriend]

My mom was accused of MBP for years. As a 12 year old, I was dealing with numb limbs, headaches, fainting spells, extreme fatigue, etc. Because they are all invisible symptoms, no one believed my mom when she talked about me. After years of this, I was able to get an MRI and it turns out I have 5 brain lesions, 10 spinal lesions, and MS :(

[@aka524]

that's rough are you doing okay man?

[@sapphosgirlfriend]

@@aka524 I’m doing so much better now, thank you! I have really good doctors and constant medical support to keep me going. It’s lifelong, but my health is stable now!

[@Man_Aslume]

I'm no doctor but that doesn't sound good

[@sapphosgirlfriend]

@@aka524 I actually can’t walk now, but I’m living a really fulfilling life. I have a wonderful girlfriend, fun hobbies, and a great support system 💗

[@marcisnee2150]

I’m glad they finally figured it out. Which MS type do you have?

[@exesti1]

One of the best lines from Baron Munchausen is, “Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.” The folktales or stories were a great read as a kid, and I recommend them to all who are reading this.

[@derp195]

For some reason, I read this in Codsworth’s voice.

[@mildlydazed9608]

@@derp195 highly improved by codsworth 😂

[@maniaclaugh]

The story where he pulls himself and his horse out of a swamp by pulling on his own hair was my favourite when I was a kid.

[@siberianstuntman3344]

Wasnt there a movie

[@thebusinesswoman23]

This reminds me of the quote from Dungeonmaster ... "I reject your reality and substitute my own" (Quote was made more popular by Adam Savage from MythBusters)

[@telecastKiss]

dee dee also was suspected by her family for killing her mother. her mother was being cared for by deedee, and become extremely ill within her care, and died unexplainably

[@N_0968]

Also her stepmother got very ill so they suspected that Dee Dee was poisoning her as well.

[@BecBec295]

I believe Deedee's mother was also a psychopath who abused her and may be responsible for Deedee's apparent psychopathy.

[@Queenofthatank]

Makes sense it seems she loved being the center of the attention she got by losing a loved one

[@chickasawstarrmountain9747]

She starved her mama

[@RachelAnnPotter]

@@BecBec295 severe generational abuse fits with how horrific the details are....

[@temporaryfind9048]

I knew a girl that had parents like this, made up a bunch of her daughter’s issues and allergies and eventually led to her daughter actually being sick. It’s very sad, she missed most of high school and was constantly bed ridden. That being said, I think she also liked the attention because she would get mad when the attention wasn’t on her, but she was most likely brainwashed Not a fun way to live, I hope she’s ok wherever she is. I hope she’s away from her possessive parents but I doubt she is

[@multiocular2153]

I don't know if this helps, but I am a lot like the person you described. I now have a few legitimate disabilities caused at least in part by the improper care I received when I was a child (though it's of course hard to tell exactly how much with such a long timeline of abuse), but while I gained real, serious disabilities, I eventually learned to advocate for myself and am doing much better now. I doubt I am the person you describe, but even if I'm not, I hope you know that people can learn to break free from that control, and things get better. I hope whoever you're talking about is doing better too.

[@multiocular2153]

also full disclosure, I didn't watch the video, I've been to invested in other things so haven't caught up, but I saw how closely this comment fit me and couldn't not say something. I just want to let people know that things can change. It's hard, it takes work, recovery is painful, but there's always hope and if anyone reading this is experiencing these things or knows people experiencing these things, I hope you - or they - are able to recover and live well some day.

[@temporaryfind9048]

@@multiocular2153 Hello! I would also like to say I have a lot of invisible disabilities as well. If your name starts with an A then we can talk in pm but otherwise it might just be another person that understands their struggles. They could’ve totally had these issues but if anything her parents made it worse in my belief. I shouldn’t dictate how hard their life is but their parents didn’t seem to want her to get better. I was also told some information about her allergies and diagnosis but those are also hard to verify

[@jh8320]

I think my mom has minor mbp. Every minor thing as a child… a headache in the car was suddenly an allergy to AC and we stopped using the AC in the car. Normal kid stomach aches were multiple pediatric appointments with diet trials and extensive explaining to people what I could and couldn’t eat when we went out to eat with people. It was shitty and I can’t even imagine growing up with a parent with full blown mbp. She loved the attention she got when she had kidney stones and couldn’t work for a bit. But she couldn’t lie about her own medical issues. She could exaggerate and hyperbolize mine though.

[@temporaryfind9048]

@@jh8320 I hope wherever you are, you’re safe. That sounds like a terrible situation

[@miledith555]

The Sally Clark case is really sad. An innocent woman who lost 2 sons, was wrongly convicted for their death and put in prison for 3 years. And then she was never able to recover mentally and drank herself to death… That is so tragic and heartbreaking.

[@theonlybucko]

Dee Dee's murder should have been considered self defense, and it is infuriating how her attorney failed her.

[@TheDutchessOfCornville]

So many people failed her. It’s a damn shame. She should have gotten psychiatric help to start fixing the damage done by her disgusting mother, not jail time. To me, it’s no different than a battered wife who was abused in every way for decades decided that she’s had enough and knowing that the only way to truly be free is for her abuser to die. Monsters like Dee Dee don’t just stop. They need to BE stopped. I really do hope Gypsy is getting the help she needs and can FINALLY live a free life once she serves her time.

[@untroubledwaters2137]

YES!!! Indeed. Truly tragic.

[@lexyshannon9428]

Unfortunately, it usually isn't considered self defense unless the other person makes the first move with clear intent to physically harm them. If you go into the other room to grab a weapon and come back to make the first move while they're down, it's considered an attack on your end. Regardless, I still think it was a long time coming to her mom. They definitely should have considered more about the case than who murdered who, even if it wasn't considered self defense. She definitely didn't deserve a jail sentence.

[@frankieffbaby]

It reminds me of cyntonia Brown and Chrystul Kizer. They murdered their sex traffickers and was sentenced to prison. It doesn’t make any sense.

[@Lucy-fn9rj]

@@TheDutchessOfCornville the “justice” system has horribly failed a lot of people who killed their abusers, too. prosecutors will frame it as “ah look, she’s admitting that she had a strong motive!” when battered wives say the husband they killed was abusive. there’s a lot of women serving life sentences or waiting on death row right now because they killed their abuser.

[@2roxfox]

my mother did this to me in a way but she didn't attempt to convince doctors i was sick, she was convinced i had some kind of schizophrenia at a very young age, I remember being taken to various doctors because of my alleged 'bad behaviour'. At the age of 11 she asked a doctor for some kind of tranquilising drug and i was put on librium which is no longer available. She liked to read books about mental illness and my entire life she hasn't stopped. Every time she finds out some new mental health related info, i get a whole new mental health 'issue' as she calls it. And just to top it all off I learned from a family member that she has told the entire side of her family (3 brothers, 7 sisters, 33 cousins) that i have drug induced frontal lobe damage which has resulted in me displaying a complete lack of empathy towards others. Its sad because I had to cut her out of my life by the time i reached 50, I just had enough.. and its a kind of sad feeling for me that i had a bad mother. But to everyone out there who have had bad mothers, I just want to say that this doesn't make you a bad person. What my mother did was mild compared to some horror stories out there. To anyone with a parent like this - You can get through anything and there are still good people in the world. You can escape.

[@mal0gen]

Good to see you staying strong. Keep going, mate.

[@2roxfox]

@@mal0gen thanks - I actually think it made me a better person. I learned that having a bad mother is not such a rare occurrence. It’s not her fault she was born that way - but we don’t get to choose our parents. We do get to choose how we conduct ourselves in our own lives and even bad examples can be useful examples of what not to do.

[@mal0gen]

@@2roxfox I think that I should follow that advice myself. Thank you.

[@informobyte3211]

My mother is similar and also is getting her degree in psychology ironicly. However, my mother is quiet about it and waits for any little issue to jump out with some sort of mental illness explanation. Military doctors diagnosed me with ASD and ADHD and you can bet the illness was "beat out of me" and gave me ginkgo biloba instead of putting me on drugs to help me cope with my actual issues. While I can thank her for that, not getting treatment with drugs, I think what bothers me the most is that she doesn't, to this day, admit that I might need help since she's been studying psychology and at this point it's nearly impossible with the economy and all to drop $400 on a first visit to a real psychiatrist. I needed help when I was 8. There's much more to this story, but I do wish she would have done more to help me navigate the issues rather than discipline me and tell me I'm stupid and a bad child to my face and my family. I have always been a genuinely good person, manners, and I'm more intelligent than the average person.. Just wish she would've been better to me.

[@alicevioleta3184]

yeah, i can relate to this. it is a very sad thing to say "my mother was awful", but it's the truth. running from truth wont' change anything. we have to take care of ourselves.

[@90geekgirl06]

Hime health nurse here. They tried to accuse my patient's mom of MPD but she was just a really good advocate for her son. She herself was a victim of medical gaslighting and wound up misdiagnosed for years until they realized suddenly she had cancer and MS, so she wasn't going to allow doctors to ignore her son.

[@phoebescott6787]

Yeah MPD sounds like a dangerous discovery for women since they're already dismissed in Healthcare, imagine how many are labeled with the convenient MPD diagnosis

[@RT-qd8yl]

@@phoebescott6787 So should we just stop diagnosing it in females to avoid hurting people's feelings?

[@mahino420]

did the person say that or did they say that it will cause alot of women to not be believed, please stfu xD@@RT-qd8yl

[@akinaneon-xz6oj]

​@@RT-qd8ylliterally no one said that.

[@salamantics]

@@RT-qd8yl "females" immediately invalidated your whiny comment.

[@Lori_Hanna]

I was very ill as a child. No one could figure out what was actually wrong with me. I would run high fevers, have stomach problems, gain weight and have severe pain. They told my mother that I was faking it. Then send me to a psychiatrist. Then some of them thought it was my mom making me sick. They even put me into a psych ward on "suicide watch" so I couldn't "hurt" myself . I got bronchitis from that. So they could not tell if my fever was from me doing it or the bronchitis My grandma made them release me. So I went to every doctor and shrink they sent me to. They would threaten my mom and me with jail. The shrinks actually told my mom to beat me if I didn't get up and go to school. So after 10 YEARS of suffering they decided to take my appendix out. When they were doing a few scans and found a 13 POUND OVARIAN CYST. It was full of blood and leaking. It was entangled in all of my organs. The surgery was 8 hours and I was back in from internal bleeding. The irony of it was that NOT ONE PERSON APOLOGIZED. So sometimes it takes listening to do the right thing

[@I_am_the_scout_here]

Jesus christ man

[@smolltaco5667]

Wow thats tough, how do you feel? Also do you play videogames cause i need friends 😅

[@Lori_Hanna]

@@smolltaco5667 I feel better for the most part. I have a ps5.

[@MBiz.]

I hope you are okay. Im sorry

[@Lori_Hanna]

@@MBiz. Ty I am better for the most part.

[@sweetgirlyjk]

Honestly my friend and I were talking abt Gypsy and eventually came to the conclusion that, yeah she wasn’t in immediate risk of death, but if DeeDee had ever found out that Gypsy was going to leave or that she was going to tell someone there is very little doubt in my mind that DeeDee would have found a way to disable her to an extreme extent or kill her and claim it was an accident. That poor girl lived through torture, it’s terrible

[@screamingopossum7809]

There's no doubt in my mind she would have figured out a way to paralyze Gypsy or find a way to make her perminantly mute.

[@sweetgirlyjk]

@@screamingopossum7809 Exactly. I honestly feel like Gypsy understood that too, but I just hate that it all had to happen like that.

[@screamingopossum7809]

@@sweetgirlyjk Life isn't fair. Gypsy knew or had a strong idea that what would have happened to her in the long term was going to be an even worse hell than what she was living in already. If Gypsy hadn't done what she did, she could have ended up dead from all the drugs she was forced to take that her body didn't need.

[@ratbrain6991]

To add to this, even if Gypsy DID get away and was able to get out, DeeDee (I could be wrong but I believed she forced and or manipulated) Gypsy into signing legal documents saying she was not mentally capable of taking care of herself and had POW over Gypsy so she had absolute say where and what happened to Gypsy essentially forever

[@soxpeewee]

It's hard to say if she was or wasn't in immediate danger. I would be afraid my mother was capable of anything if I was Gypsy Rose and would assume she actively wanted to harm me.

[@edaeunderthestairs]

My exs mother has MBP. She claimed her daughter was, among other things, mute, autistic, unable to walk, had seizures, epileptic, and so so much more. My ex was none of these and now works full time in a pharmacy 💀 (She also used to drug her daughter with laxatives and melatonin and other things, Sharon if you're reading this, just know if you were on fire and I had a glass of water i would drink it.)

[@Mariathinking]

What did Sharon do, pray tell? 🧐☕

[@the13throse]

@@Mariathinking I think Sharon is the name of their ex's mother...

[@ijustlikebees]

That poor kid...

[@danielmartins7716]

I wouldnt even drink it, i would poor it in front of them and let them look at the evil in my eyes

[@Mariathinking]

@@the13throse ohhh makes sense hahah

[@thedogthatlived8649]

I had the opposite I have a genetic epilepsy disorder (focal seizures - your awake for your seizures but can’t move only seize) which my mother convinced me and doctors were just panic attacks and said my dad only had them because he was “addicted to drugs” (literally just smoked weed sometimes) and she had everyone believing I was just having severe panic attacks or I was faking until I had a seizure in front of all of my in-laws and Fianće (who was the only one who believed me until this point because he took care of me before during and after my seizures) and they called an ambulance and the emt bent down and said something along the lines of “alright she’s seizing” and my MIL said “no those are just her panic attacks” and all the emts just stopped and went silent and stared baffled And then went back to seizure protocol. So years and years of untreated brain damage and memory loss later people finally started believing

[@KiKi-tf8rv]

I’m so sorry you had to live like that. I think this type of parental denial happens way more often than people realize!

[@thedogthatlived8649]

@@KiKi-tf8rv thank you, and definitely. She also over looked POTS and autoimmune disorder. I can’t even regulate my own body temperature or blood pressure and she managed to deny it. But now that I have dr diagnosed POTS suddenly she thinks she may have POTS

[@sabrinastratton1991]

It took them over a year for mine I guess I was “lucky” but the doctors at my home hospital said it was “conversion disorder” and I also had trouble balancing, hypersensitivity in my legs to the point touch was painful. It took a year when I was visiting my boyfriend a few counties over I had an episode and nearly choked to death. The doctor in that ER did call the ER doctor who had discharged me the day before and told her to next time believe her patients cause she nearly killed me. I had the early symptoms of MS that also had gone untreated due to “it’s all in your head” and my mom and sisters and BIL thought so too until my identical twin began having the same thing happen to HER a few months ago

[@chelleb3055]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this, Tiffany. As a child I had grand mal seizures daily for several years and other health issues that the doctors couldn't figure out. My mom had me blessed by the Mormon missionaries and supposedly my seizures stopped so in her mind I was "healed". Mine actually morphed into absence seizures and never truly stopped but if I tried to tell her she told me I was just attention seeking and there was nothing wrong with me; the missionaries had "cured" me. Long story short, as an adult I also have been dx'd with POTS and MCAS (an immune system disorder) and only my husband and son, who also has this, believe me. I cut my toxic birth family out of my life years ago but it still hurts that they called me a crazy hypochondriac and probably still do.

[@archetypalheart7572]

I hope you're doing better 😔

[@Drzozo_]

I was accused of Munchausen throughout my childhood because I had anxiety attacks in certain situations and my parents just categorised it as me "not wanting to focus on my studies" I once has an attack while visiting a sick cousin in the hospital, taken to the emergency, stabilised only to be told "ah its fine kids do everything to seek attention at this age" by the doctor, when the nurses were literally worried about me going pale as a ghost and ice cold, breaking into a sweat, that's kinda hard to "fake." I've suffered with anxiety attacks all my childhood where my chest got tighter over the span of DAYS and then having the big explosion, it was so painful and I hid it out of shame, because literally everyone thought I was faking it for attention. I'm a med student myself now, and I suffer from depression and anxiety but I'm STILL scared to admit and get help because it's ingrained in my psyche "if you ask for help you're seeking attention" I'm not saying Munchausen is all bad, there are people who really need help with it, but I think it should be a diagnosis of exclusion. :') Thanks for listening to me rant.

[@aaardie]

Just want to say I believe you and I’m so sorry you were failed by those around you and not believed. Anxiety is a real thing and I hope you’re able to get the help you deserve one day. With the “attention seeking” narrative you’ve been fed about speaking out, this comment alone was a huge step in the right direction! You said it and I believe you!! Have a wonderful day

[@MrCmon113]

Epistemic laziness and cruelty go hand in hand.

[@Sevmmunnyx]

As someone who’s disabled, I can’t describe how traumatic it is having so many surgeries and treatments, not knowing what’s wrong, constantly seeing doctors, constant blood draws, I empathize with gypsy honestly. It’s horrific

[@morguewalker11]

I'm still confused why she went to jail....

[@mermaid_at_heart213]

She is the first one I thought of when I found out what this video was about. Like you, I've gone through the same thing. I have been fighting to get better since I was very young. I'm still fighting. I also empathize with Gypsy; having to go through this for nothing! It is horrific. I try to be empathetic towards others, but I just can't feel bad for the mother, at all.

[@PurgPurg]

I’m in the same position right now I’m glad you can relate. I believe I have neuropathy but there are other symtoms, likely caused by obscure factors, that makes my case extremely unique. It really sucks it feels isolating

[@thatonekid6677]

@@morguewalker11 cuz she got a guy to kill her mom? lol

[@mermaid_at_heart213]

@@PurgPurg That sounds like me. I have "unknown neuropathy" among many other things. They've been trying to figure me out since I was 10, 35 years now. I've been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, myofascial pain syndrome, hypothyroidism, and a bunch of other stuff. I'm planning a trip to the Cleveland clinic to get tested for small fiber polyneuropathy. You should do some research on it. It may answer some questions for you. I'm hoping it connects some pieces for me, so that I can get therapy/meds that help more than just "putting a bandaid on it." Good luck to everyone finding a proper diagnosis and getting a better treatment plan. ❤

[@flabbergasp2854]

Unfortunately, in Lacey's story, Garnet wasn't the first child to be affected. She took advantage of the multiple kids she babysat to get attention and sympathy. She also became obssesed with these children she harmed as a result and imposed the idea that she was their actual mother. One of the children was even posted online in the same matter, before the actual mom caught on.

[@Kag666]

😮❤😂😮😅

[@GrandFerratus]

I have some personal experience with this. An aunt of mine had two daughters, and both ended up developing symptoms that the aunt said were due to cancer (both became sick before the age of 10). After the second girl got sick members of my family became suspicious and got involved. It turned out she had been poisoning them to make it appear that they had cancer.

[@juicyparsons]

damn! what do you think her motives were? if u don;t mind

[@shoyupacket5572]

that's so fucked up...

[@Girly_Gutzzz]

I can't imagine how physically painful it must be to get these procedures and treatments. Like ik it's hard enough getting a procedure you need to live and all the pain and discomfort things like that come with but having your body tampered with unnecessarily and not being able to do anything about it is horrifying to even think about. Sometimes the extent of this abuse makes surviving it sound worse than death.

[@skr3ex]

This is exactly what disturbed me about watching The Act. I had cancer as a child (leukemia, and I’m in remission now) and I still sometimes feel a little traumatized with how it felt going through all of the treatments. Like yeah the cancer itself sucked, the cancer pains were unbearable, and I felt ill all the time. But honestly the treatments is what bothered me the most. The invasive surgeries, the nauseating, constant spinal taps, the casts, and the chemotherapy side effects. Additionally, the attention you get from it absolutely SUCKS. Like having everyone look down on you and feel so bad for you and only seeing CANCER KID. Not being able to play with other kids, feeling isolated, losing your hair and feeling different than your own cousins. Also, I think my mom is a wee bit narcissistic because she would use my story (and still does) to make her seem like a wonderful, angel mother. All while things were not great in my household, but that’s besides the point. Like so much of Gypsy’s story hit home for me, but turned up to 1000% and without her actually having cancer in her body. It made me sick.

[@williambixby3785]

I can tell you that this is 100% real. Unfortunately my children suffered from this for many years until I was able to stop it, this was due to fathers not having parental right unless something as drastic as this happens… no matter how hard I tried to warn the courts, the doctors, or anyone who would listen… it fell on deaf ears until my son was forced into a psych ward. From what I can tell these people will 100% believe the lies they tell as truth regardless of evidence. I don’t care to share the details of what my children went through for nearly a decade, but I am willing to share more (in a round about way) if anyone is dealing with this and needs some help. You’re always bringing the heat on things I wouldn’t expect! Thanks Wendy!!!!

[@constantineergius1626]

the best cure for MBP is a lead pill administered orally through a medical device id like to call a shotgun

[@SKMP]

@Bob Lazar you forgot to add “reach out”

[@jamesnope8666]

I personally believe that family courts and CPS's are the greatest evils ever unleashed on the American people

[@erinkinsella91]

@@constantineergius1626 not very tasteful, she's talking about her kids.

[@IXISparky]

@@erinkinsella91 he likely meant what he said about the wife who was harming her kids

[@astrofish6163]

I read about this in my english class, and obviously have heard of it before from pop culture, etc. Seems to create a really complicated situation for everyone involved.

[@Dj.MODÆO]

Yea my best friends wife has just regular munchausens (and schizophrenia) and she made everyone’s life a living hell by faking major illnesses for sympathy after each of her schizophrenic breaks would cause everyone to not want anything to do with her.

[@eyyyyyy4468]

there's an webtoon that gets into it in one of it's stories, it's called "Ghost Teller", it follows a "suspense/drama/horror" type of comic it's the second story, "The Story Of This Place"

[@Promislandzion]

“Complicated”

[@animuchan6136]

The hell are you learning in your english classes?

[@astrofish6163]

@@animuchan6136 cool stuff

[@Adakechi]

I''m a victim of Munchausen by Proxy throughout my childhood. I got a vaccine when I was a baby and my mother convinced me it gave me a slew of food allergies, developmental issues, and autoimmune issues. This lasted throughout my entire childhood, she used this as a way to gaslight and abuse me for years. I didn't have another vaccine until I was 18, when I could legally get my own. It took a lot of therapy and medication to accept what she did to me. edit; to clarify, she would make up random symptoms from my "allergies", such as things like my eyes not tracking correctly, behaving out of line (I was literally 7, what 7-year old doesn't act out), and how I wouldn't listen to her when I ate certain foods or whatever. She also convinced me I had severe sensory issues and a very very weak immune system and hospitalized me frequently despite there being nothing physically wrong with me. Great video Wendigoon, it makes me a little emotional to see this brought up.

[@Wintergreen_]

If we're being real, Gypsy probably would have had a lethal "medical emergency" the week before her "18th" (22nd) birthday, she shouldn't have spent a day in a jail cell.

[@m0xxie-pr7ju8ex4u]

THANK YOU THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO SAID SHE MANIPULATED NICHOLAS BECAUSE HE WAS LEARNING DISABLED! HE WASN'T HE CONVINCED HER, AND GYPSY MOST LIKELY WOULD'VE DIED

[@maggiedk]

I just want to say, as an abuse survivor - I REALLY REALLY appreciate your take on Gypsy Rose Blanchard (and on people standing up to their abusers in general). I absolutely agree with everything you said and I appreciate you talking about the fact that, when you take into account the psychological effects of abuse and how dangerous it can be for victims to try to get help/seek freedom, it's completely unfair to say that someone like her should have just left and called the cops on her mom. Gypsy did nothing wrong and I honestly don't believe that any victim who kills their abuser (especially while they're actively being abused) should get jail time.

[@screamingopossum7809]

Taking into account that Gypsy has AT MOST a 1st grade education and a 2nd grade reading level, the police wouldn't have listened to her if she reached out. People are like "Well, she had the resources". She had the education level of a 1st grader and was sheltered all her life. She probably didn't know if the cops would even believe her. If she was caught by DeeDee, she'd be in a worse sitatition than when she started. DeeDee was very good at talking her way out of situations and would doctor hop whenever the doctor had ideas. Gypsy was a dead girl walking and in her killing her mother, she saved her own life.

[@WobblesandBean]

I agree completely. She was totally justified in murdering her mother, in fact, by wiping her out she did the world a favor.

[@maddy8328]

Agreed

[@ashmondthesoutherntrashmon2210]

the sheer amount of people this idea could apply to is horrifying. i completely agree,and its awful how many people have been incarcerated for enacting self defence.

[@dakotamabry1645]

Heard of rape victims get longer prison sentences while known rapist get slaps on the wrist and offend again and prisons actively protect them

[@verdi-gris]

I love how you present your topics. Respectful and intriguing, but also with enough energy and humor to keep my attention. Thanks for the great content daddygoon

[@DefinitelyFroggyDioBrando]

@Atom begone

[@ohwhyithurtssomuch6192]

@@DefinitelyFroggyDioBrando oh god a jojo fan

[@DefinitelyFroggyDioBrando]

@@ohwhyithurtssomuch6192 ah don't worry I'm not one of the bad ones I'm just here

[@frumtheground]

There's actually a lot he gets wrong in this video as far as the illness is concerned, because it is considered a legitimate illness. It's also not called Munchausen Syndrome/By Proxy anymore, it's Factitious Disorder/Imposed on Another. The criteria is in the DSM-5, if you're curious about what the criteria is and what it entails. He does a good job representing the legal and social issues surrounding it tho, still has some good points and it's an interesting topic that should be talked about.

[@MMumbles]

@@frumtheground wow... This is the *most polite* fact check I've ever seen on the internet. Let alone a KZbin comment.

[@briafae]

It always baffled me that gypsy got prison time. I understand that she was older than most people thought. She was still held back mentally by her mother. So it was understandable that she didn't understand how to get out of her situation without killing/getting rid of her mother. It's sad that this poor girl was put through more torture in prison instead of being sent somewhere to be taught all the skills that she missed out on because of her own mother. I hate our justice system sometimes....

[@cheekibreeki904]

And what about Nick?

[@briafae]

@@cheekibreeki904 he should have gotten prison time but also plenty of therapy and sympathy because he just wanted to help someone he loved. Though there is plenty of nuance about his motives whether it was a crime of opportunity or passion/ love.

[@lexyshannon9428]

I know! They didnt consider the years of lifelong abuse by her mother and innappropriate drug distribution

[@urmum30005]

@@briafae it's still murder, and they both deserved prison time. i completely sympathize with them both and agree gypsy should have gotten a lighter sentence. i wish the legal system worked out for them but it didn't and it's a real shame, I think everyone failed that girl :(

[@SpecialBlanket]

I don't see how it's not self-defense. She was being falsely imprisoned and tortured. She attempted to physically escape and was physically prevented. The duration and severity of the abuse are making people see it as the background and not as concrete acts. If a stranger kidnapped you, disguised you as a minor, tortured you, isolated you, and tricked other people into physically hurting you... I understand the mother was asleep but the thing is whenever she woke up she had the fake legal documents and gypsy wasn't in a position to take her to court or anything.

[@xanderbrindle]

My family did that. I have two siblings. I'm the oldest. The second youngest and I, were constantly misdiagnosed with a myriad of disabilities. Some were true, most weren't. Eventually, my youngest sibling was born with cerebral palsy. At that point, the infliction stopped. My parent had finally got what they wanted, and when it came time to actually take that responsibility, they abandoned us.

[@Kretchlet]

I honestly believe Gypsy's case was a kill or be killed situation. The police had shown they trusted Dee Dee, when a neurologist pointed out her lies he was dismissed. Gypsy would've seen this, she knew no one was going to save her. If she hadn't killed dee dee, then gypsy would be another tragic case alongside gannet spears

[@cheekibreeki904]

Instead she ruined a man's life, and ruined it for good. She's getting out of prison eventually, he's going to rot in there.

[@jlbeeen]

@@cheekibreeki904 What else could she have done? It sounds like no one else would have believed her, and I've seen cases where the police and first responders side with abusers and take that lie as truth, so it's a very difficult situation. I've been in situations where I had to put up with abuse (not the same kind), and I'm glad I still had places to go to avoid it (friends, family, etc), but if you can't see your other parent, or grandparents for support, where can you go, but the internet to look for any trace of hope that someone will believe you.

[@cheekibreeki904]

@@jlbeeen I have a few ideas, but that doesn't matter really, now does it? The point is, another person ended up not only committing a crime because she manipulated him, but also taking the fall for her because she pushed the blame on him. I can justify every part of the story except this one.

[@user-fr4ih5hv2t]

@@cheekibreeki904 i don’t know much of the case, but how did she manipulate him? i kinda just thought gypsy managed to date a dude. told him about the abuse and leaned on him a lot and he killed her mom to help gypsy escape

[@Alowne217]

@@user-fr4ih5hv2t It's been years since I did research on her case and I honestly forgot the details. All I know is that I remember agreeing with the fact that shy did manipulated him into killing her mother. But I also don't really blame her for doing it so neither will I judge for that, she should have done herself idk. There were obviously better ways to deal with the situation but every time I put myself into her situation idk if I would have the mentality to think logically. And I don't think I could have lived knowing she wasn't dead. Just like some families are suffering everyday because some heinous killers aren't dead.

[@Blublubies]

When I first fell ill with cfs, the change in my health was so sudden and drastic that doctors doubted I was actually ill. Almost my whole extended family started blaming my mother for making me sick, and it took a year for them to finally realize I had a genuine debilitating physical illness. She faced a lot of scrutiny just because she tried to get me help. It’s awful that there are actual sick people that intentionally make their children sick. Not only does it either ruin a life or kill the child, it also increases the belief that all parents with kids with hard to diagnose illnesses are making them sick. Rare chronic illnesses either get the mental illness stamp or are shoved under a rug very often, one of the reasons being cases like this. Edit: turns out I also have iron deficiency anemia, just found out. The doctors already saw my low ferritin levels a year ago, but still called me mentally ill. Now it’s gotten so bad I need to get an infusion soon.

[@arbormatos832]

I came here looking for this comment.

[@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488]

Are you vegetarian or vegan?

[@Blublubies]

@@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488 Nope, I eat meat when I’m able to. I have arfid tho, which causes some texture problems with most firm forms of food. I like meatballs and that really tender chinese restaurant chicken :) I’ve been checked that I get enough nutrition, so there’s no problems with that

[@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488]

@@Blublubies crazy I was able to guess the problem with so little information. Heme iron is what's bioavailable. The iron found in spinach is hardly bioavailable at all. If it's that difficult try some liver capsules and watch it improve as if by magic. Wish you the best 👍

[@Blublubies]

@@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488 Thank you so much! 💖 I’ll look into it :) However, I’ve been on a very iron heavy diet along with supplements, but it’s just getting lower so my doctrors have said I have to get the infusion. Maybe I’ll be able to keep it up with diet tho, but my ferritin level problem is likely linked to chronic inflammation in my body that’s caused by cfs. Or something going on in my immune system, which could also be linked to the disease. I really hope they find a correlation, because it will secure me away from psychiatric treatment in case some doctor decides to suddenly put me down that route again.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

When you listed that lady’s 5th child I legit thought you would just straight up spend the rest of the video listing infinite children who died under that woman’s care LMAO

[@riverdaisy4215]

it’s insane she was having babies just to kill them and a ton of kids at that

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

Makes me question who the fuck was having her children with. Was it the same guy? Because if it was, that dude has somr issues too. What kind of normal person keeps having kids after they all die soon after they're born?

[@a_talkative_cow836]

For reals 😂

[@Thisismyhandle329]

Don't make light of mass child murder

[@dakotamabry1645]

Heard that pregnancy hormones and after the pregnancy screws up brain chemistry- woman have commit infanticide and kill themselves due to paranoia delusions caused by it . Kinda sounded like it

[@zigzaglychee7324]

You're absolutely right about MBP accusations being used to sway legal cases. There definitely need to be more careful considerations about bringing up alleged mental illnesses in legal cases. BPD is another one that is misused, usually to discredit victims in abuse cases.

[@rachelLadyD]

this

[@ettinakitten5047]

That's bizarre to me, because BPD is almost always caused by parental abuse. It always strikes me as odd when parents say "my daughter has BPD so don't listen to her" and don't seem to realize they're basically confessing to abusing her.

[@laurenwasinger9436]

Great vid but you forgot one key tip-off to Munchausen’s: frequently changing medical providers without medical records. Munchausen’s patients fire their doctors every time they are caught or treated with suspicion and never transfer those records because they don’t want the suspicion to follow them.

[@MononymousM]

This is true, but I'd really be wary of pushing it as an indicator because of the simply devastating suffering of so many who are incorrectly assessed as falling under this and then being trapped in a downward spiral where the more it's happened, the less likely they'll be believed at the new place and the more they'll appear to be a 'classic case' whilst in reality, they are repeatedly failed with increasing severity by the very system that put them there in a hole and removed the ladder.

[@laurenwasinger9436]

@@MononymousM very very true! It’s extremely important to be careful and unbiased in the investigation of these charges, to be sure. At risk of getting too personal, I had to transfer care of my medically complex child from one doctor and it involved shuffling through a couple other doctors to find the right person. The first doctor was failing her, but she was also sort of petty so she absolutely could have pulled my family into a lot of stress and troubles with an accusation.

[@Chrispmiller84]

That may be a marker, but it's a fairly weak one. Most people don't actually take their medical records to their new doctors. And some illnesses just force you to go to different doctors. My chronic pain was treated with opiates for 5 years, but my doctor retired. I've spent so much time and energy trying to find another doctor who is willing to provide the medication I require to live a semi-normal life. Every doctor I'd see would refuse to write the scripts. Also, there's no worse hell than really needing something to survive and every doctor just treats you like a drug addict. It's dehumanizing. But yeah, some people change doctors relatively often and most people don't bother with medical records.

[@septicember]

that's actually a really unfortunately statistic for people with complex health issues. I switched PCPs like 3 or 4 times after moving, same with other specialists, because i wasn't being heard, let alone tested or treated for anything. They'd do basic bloodwork and tell me I'm fine. I have Lupus, POTS, and some form of hypermobility. It took 3 rheumatologists to get the Lupus diagnosis, two cardiologists to get the POTS dx, and it was my current (4th) PCP who finally assessed me with the Beighton scale for a hypermobile syndrome. It took 3-4 years of doctor shopping just to find someone who cared enough to do the tests and ask the questions to find the problem. I also have Bipolar on my record and I've been turned away from the ER twice because of it.

[@crakhaed]

@@septicember fucking crazy they would turn you away from the emergency room just for having bipolar on your record!

[@lonancblackwood8727]

Good to see you stand up for Gypsy. This case has always made me really angry. She spent her whole life as her mothers prisoner, and when she was finally free, she was just locked away again. So much of her life spent just sitting locked up, she didn't need "punishment". She was punished her entire childhood.

[@theycallmetray396]

All true but she messed up when she planned the death of her mother I doubt the courts could just let her go or give her help even though it’s probably the best

[@jamie1602]

@@theycallmetray396 One-size-fits-all justice doesn't work. It just doesn't work. It's the shit that gave my bio-dad only TWELVE YEARS for conspiring to murder his (thankfully now ex) wife and his in laws while corrupting my bio-mother and another teenager to also help him. They threw the book at my bio-mother and that teenager, too... But the guy acting like Don Corleone only gets twelve years and got to harass me for the rest of my life, even now. Someone should have done something but they never did because one-size-fits-all justice.

[@Jcaeser187]

@@theycallmetray396 some people need to be gotten rid of in extra judicial ways

[@jakobynhyde]

So glad Goon agrees that Gypsy wasn't totally out of line. Really, murder is bad and all, but DeeDee kinda deserved it.

[@RachelAnnPotter]

It's telling the Gypsy found prison to be much more free than living under her abusive mother. I have zero sympathy for Dee Dee. Murdering her might have been the only real way for Gypsy to escape.

[@admiralofcuteness]

More than kind of, IMO.

[@BeeMarzipan]

I feel like Gypsy was 100% gonna die very soon hadn't she gotten away, Dee Dee would kill her intentionally or not and would be a martyr.

[@juniperberryyyy]

When I say "murder is sometimes ok", I'm talking about Gypsy Rose's case

[@songsformymom193]

Dee Dee’s own parents flushed her ashes down the toilet 😳 the documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest goes deeper into it. Dee Dee had killed someone in her care before and she most likely would have killed Gypsy too

[@wilddeoren]

i have an invisible disability and the amount of people that subtly tried to accuse me of being a munchausen just because i seem to function average is crazy. i hate mentioning my disabilities and dont even get attention from it what could i be trying to achieve..

[@tradingwiththewoods]

*Münchhausen/muenchhausen

[@wilddeoren]

@@tradingwiththewoods ... okay

[@umi2751]

Same. I even had an argument with my sister. She said "oh, so from all the people out there, how do you think YOU were the one to get a rare mutation. You think you're too special" and I was like??? Girl that's LITERALLY how rare disorders work

[@plederfagella9774]

What's the invisible disability I'm just curious

[@wilddeoren]

​@@plederfagella9774 theres three but POTS is the main one as i have a more severe case of it. my heart rate rapidly elevates with just about any big movement that moves my torso, even while just reaching for stuff while sitting. i have fibromyalgia too yet i have a pretty high pain tolerance, but it does leave me sore or unable to move. also DCD/dyspraxia.

[@tenisonolson]

gypsy rose lived no joke like 100 yards from my sister in the habitat for humanity community in springfield mo. my other sister deadass hung out with her, its so eerie

[@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943]

Spooky

[@THExRISER]

Small world.

[@Hearthburn1]

The other side of diagnosing Munchausen or MBP is that "doesn't get better" and "knows a lot about their treatment" also apply to people with certain kinds of chronic illness, especially ones that are hard to identify or look a lot like other illnesses. People who are genuinely ill can be accused of Munchausen or MBP just because they're desperately trying to find answers for what's happening to them or to their family members.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

Exactly and it makes it harder to get a proper diagnosis and treatment

[@frumtheground]

Those aren't actually the diagnostic criteria. The criteria is: intentional falsification of a physical or psychological symptoms, deceptive behavior persists even without material or practical incentives (money, time off, material goods), other disorders present that don't better explain the behavior. The criteria is vague, but specifically requires other explanations to be exhausted first to eliminate other potential disorders physical and mental. I really like Windigoon's videos, but he gets A LOT wrong in this video. It's also not called Munchausen Syndrome anymore. It's called Factitious Disorder and Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another. It absolutely is considered a diagnosable mental illness in psychology and it's in the DSM-5. It's hard to define and there's no specific treatment because it's very very rare (and hard to find).

[@MisseryMoth]

MBP is scary because most people don't realize till the kid is dead... but it's also scary because it is so fucking hard to prove that someone "has it"

[@constantineergius1626]

i believe MBP exists i also believe the best treatment for MBP issues is a lead capsule administered orally

[@emmaoof3335]

yeah that's always been my issue with this criteria like "not responding to the normal treatment for a disorder" "know a lot about a their condition" and "doesn't get a lot of visitors" are all really explainable things especially not responding to normal treatment or knowing a lot about their disorder ive met many disabled and chronically ill individuals who fall under the criteria when you're sick with something people can't identify you start doing your own research so you can understand what's happening with you it doesn't mean someone has Munchausen's

[@meevins]

i'm still not over how that woman had so many of her children die so suddenly after being in her care and it took them that long to decide "yeah maybe we should look into that"

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

Because she's a woman. They can literally cut your arm off in public and no one will intervene because they still believe that "mothers intuition" bs.

[@madsfiedler3884]

at that point, it being a genetic thing would've been the probable cause though, so they had no real reason to look into it :/

[@Nobody-zl3kk]

The alternative was "We are investigating your dead child because we don't trust you to be decent enough to NOT kill your children" a situation that I think no one wants to be put into, imagine having to tell a mother that you don't trust her enough not to be a murderer AFTER she has lost YET ANOTHER child, that's the kind of shit that makes you look like a monster yourself and just demolishes people's self worth. I don't blame the doctors, none of them wanted to take the emotional bullet nor damage what they thought was a grieving mother who just had like, the worst genes and luck imaginable.

[@ianbehymer10]

I do think it was reasonable to believe it is a genetic thing, and that is certainly the most reasonable thing to imagine (more so than "oh this woman is definitely killing her children.") But I do think steps could have been made to avoid further death. For example, they could have realized that there was a trend and gone "Hey, there is a high chance there is a genetic problem causing your children to die shortly after birth, let us take care of your child, whether in your house or in hospital, and we can prevent these things." And if she refuses then perform an autopsy after the next death to try and determine whether she just doesn't believe in the hospital or doesn't want them to see her kill her child.

[@sitaratruemusic]

I'm surprised they didn't start testing HER if they were so sure it was genetic

[@trashcatlinol]

Man.... my son had to have a g-tube, as he wasn't eating from a bottle like they wanted before he left nicu. Well, he wasn't hungry when he wanted to eat, then they'd pump him full of food. No intrest in trying. The thing terrified me. He yanked it out regularly enough they had considered tying it down. When they had to tie it in to let him go, they told us we might see blood, especially if he pulls hard (he tried ONCE). and he wouldn't be able to get it removed until a feeding specialist signed off. We were also warned not feeding him would be seen as neglect when we asked the specialist if we should let him get a little hungry first. So, having the threat of losing our kid to cps if we didn't do exactly as we were told led to a hellish couple of months. It was incredibly uncomfortable for him, and it felt like we were force feeding him because we didn't want to give him a chance. After the one month mark, we started doing it our way out of pure frustration. He picked it up like second nature and we were all glad to have that thing gone. We had to use the tube two or three times when he skipped two feedings, and i was truly concerned. But it was early on and he was trying. I can't imagine forcing it on a kid with intent to make them sick.... any time kiddo bumped it it looked like it caused him pain. I was glad to see the breakouts the adhesive tape caused clear up... it was worse when we got home because we couldn't move the tape as often (only when they had to replace the tube) and he just got my sensitive skin (luckily not as bad as my grandpa...poor guy would lose chunks of flesh when they removed tape... and that was the side without the sensitivities i got from my mom....) Kiddo is great now, but goes through long periods of eating like a bird, then eating like a horse. Like a normal kid, but a little more extreme. At least he likes healthier foods and surprisingly spicy foods. Kid loves hot sauce and gochujang. It's good motivation to get him to eat during bird periods and i'm all for it. I'm learning to ferment XD hope to teach him, too. ...can't get over the lady who poisoned her kid with salt. Tiny bodies can't take as much. It's sad as much scrutiny as they threaten you with, more of these cases aren't caught.

[@Zarathustran]

Says the gloating parent with knowledge of one not caught.

[@SephStar]

I’d like to bring this up to. I’m chronically Ill, I’ve been diagnosed now (not everything but some of it) and when it first began my therapist brought up Munchausen to my mother because she didn’t know what was going on in my body. My mom left with me immediately and we never went back because she knew, as I did that I didn’t have it. Munchausen sadly, can be very harmful for people who have invisible illnesses because lazy or uninformed doctors can assume that’s what you have. In that case the doctor is telling people who are sick that they are making it up, that can be very harmful. I understand that’s not always the case but I wanted to share my experience with this, this video was very interesting! Thoughts out to all the children and victims.

[@lazeywinde6113]

Yeah. My father is an idiot who decided to believe a doctor over me when about my Chronic Subjective Dizziness when the doctor didn't immediately find anything wrong with me she told my parents it was all in my head. Whenever I complained about anything he told me I was just being a hypochondriac. That doctor like wouldn't even look at my ears when I complained that they were bothering me but treated me for bronchitis- which I doubt I even had- and like two days later I wound up going to her with stuff oozing out of my ears because my ears were severely infected. My parents still stuck with that doctor until their insurance forced them to change even though it was obvious that bitch wasn't listening to any of her patients that weren't adults- she assumed that all kids want is to stay home from school. I later learned that this doctor has a huge malpractice file, had one of her kids die of pneumonia and seriously dropped the ball on a very clear child abuse case- (She told the parents he was faking his shoulder hurting so he could stay home. I think the parents wound up taking him to the ER where it turned out he had a broken collar bone, he got it at the daycare they were sending him to where the husband of the woman running it was taking his frustrations about being fired out on this little kid)- and last I knew she was still practicing medicine with children though she's so old she has probably retired by now.

[@SephStar]

@@lazeywinde6113 Im so sorry, having someone especially your parents doubting you is so traumatic. I hope your doing better now, that doctor sounds awful and should 100% be stopped. I hope her victims get justice soon, she should be arrested. Again I hope your doing well and your parents learned/ will learn to listen to you soon. You should be treated like a expert of your own body, after all it’s yours. I hope you get the treatment you deserve! Sending good vibes!

[@lazeywinde6113]

@@SephStar the thing with csd it can be hard to determine even what's causing it but that dr didn't even try. Despite the all the malpractice coming out (and the fact that I have been out of school for ages) my father still thinks I'm making it up either to get out of things or attention. I am doing a lot better now though. Haven't found a single cause but several small things that wouldn't be a problem on their own but apparently combined cause the CSD so I'm still working on fixing or coping with those and trying not to focus too much on how they should have been addressed when I was still a child. Thanks.

[@r3bs]

This. I know disabled people that lost their benefits because some assholes decided they were faking and reported them for fraud. While I'm glad factitious disorders are being discussed, they are so incredibly rare that they're statistically irrelevant.

[@lazeywinde6113]

I googled that doctor, she died last year after an illness. I'm not mourning her at all.

[@Toleyshreds]

Funny story. My dad just now was walking out to head to the gym when I was watching this, and he paused dead in his tracks. “That videos about Mary Beth??” Turns out, he was a correctional officer at Bedford hills when she was locked up.

[@cxncelled8752]

How would you not know where your dad has worked

[@Toleyshreds]

@@cxncelled8752 this was before I was alive dog

[@KepchupPacket]

That is FASCINATING!!!!

[@labella9291]

@@cxncelled8752 Even if they knew where their dad worked, why would they know who was incarcerated at their dad's facility?

[@amberhernandez]

Having such a high profile inmate must get pretty annoying when people only know you for that one thing

[@STORMDAME]

I had breast cancer several years back (*doing okay now). We had one woman in our Facebook BC support group desperate to become one of us and asking how we thought we got the disease so she could get it too. The poor woman obviously had mental health issues but I could see where she was coming from. - We had solidarity, we had attention, we had a community. I can understand how that can be attractive to someone who needed that in their life. - We directed her towards therapy. I hope she found some help.

[@rosiehawtrey]

Sorry, but as someone who's had skin cancer for 13 years and "breast" (I suspect its metastatic skin cancer) cancer for a year, no one sane would ask for that although it's quite easy to accomplish, and no, I won't tell anyone how. But I've seen zero community - just bloody stupid comments like "you look so well...". Usually it's just a matter of time, but in my case the cancers were induced by the Fibromyalgia (it's just been found to tamp down your cytokine response - which is the body system that controls tumours). So it makes tumours much more likely but also much more aggressive.

[@jstarstudios7110]

@@rosiehawtrey, yeah, obviously, the point is that she WASN'T sane!

[@egglordsasuke8532]

I'm late to the party, but just wanted to say that I'm very relieved that you are doing better! 😇

[@aggrogator4045]

Do you still have 2 boobs? My mom had breast cancer 😔

[@STORMDAME]

No, just the one now and an implant for the other.@@aggrogator4045

[@cleanserene6330]

DD's real name was Clauddine. DD was a nickname. Gypsy's dad was Rod Blanchard. Gypsy's father married DD when she got pregnant & divorced her before she even gave birth, he said he just wasn't in love w her. But he always always sent money for child support and tried to stay in her life. DD wouldn't allow it. DD's mother had done the same thing to DD. Said she was always sick, couldn't play w other kids. But she was also the baby and the favorite and was given whatever she wanted. She cared for her mother at the end of her life, and well it became the end of her life. Super sus. Her father & stepmother got very ill when DD cared for them. Then they got better, total miracle.(!) Gypsy was wrong. DD would not have been a good mother to a sick child. She enjoyed the sadistic thrill of CAUSING illness, pain, convincing everyone that Gypsy had the mind of a 5 yr old. She would have killed Gypsy rather than let her leave. Gypsy's dad & stepmom stepped in to help her when she went to jail & everything came to light. They said they found things in the house that convinced them DD's endgame would've been Gypsy's death. Gypsy had a shitty lawyer. Or rather, he was a nice, by the book, fair minded Midwestern boy. I don't think he'd worked a murder trial. He seemed to think that ok she did this so she needs some punishment. Nine, ten yrs sounds ok. Dude, what? Her lawyer should've pulled out the MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES playbook most lawyers dream of. Abusive mother. She tried to escape, was dragged back. No experience with outside world to reality check what is normal. She didn't even do it, this older guy did, guy w history of sex offenses, who was, it could be argued, grooming a disabled minor on the internet. Now obv Gypsy said oh its my boyfriend I'm 19 and can walk, whatever. But the lawyer didn’t do his job for Gypsy. He's the kind of guy who would tell on himself, punish himself with grounding in high school because "its the right thing to do". Sure ok maybe, but a teenage girl went to prison for 10 yrs after a lifetime of being abused, and at that point was being held against her will. She was over 18. Gypsy didn't know anything about lawyers, nor i guess did her dad. But she took a deal pretty quick because they were threatening her w 1st degree murder and life. Gypsy however said prison was 💯 better than living w her mom. She made friends and braided hair and learned about makeup and sang, etc etc. Like a really long messed up girl scout camp. Lol. There is a memoir called Sickened by Julie ? Idr last name. She was terrorized thru her childhood by her mother, who also state hopped to keep fostering kids, whom she also abused. Interesting to note, when as a child she DID get sick or break a bone, her mother would WITHHOLD medical care. So she gave it when she didn't need it, and neglected it when she did. No kind of good mother in there. She's still causing havoc, trying to adopt more kids. In fiction, Gillian Flynn, who wrote Gone Girl, also wrote several other disturbing novels. Sharp Objects is the one that touches on MBP. I liked My Dark Places better, but i think they did a miniseries of Sharp Objects. ? Idk, idr, idc. Thank you for coming to my BedTalk. I should really go to bed.

[@thiagoveloso7610]

First thing that came to mind while watching the beginning of the video was the book. I thought the condition was made up by Flynn because the book touches on a lot of other things but oh well

[@R.F.9847]

You know it was bad when Gypsy is legitimately thriving in prison. It will be interesting to see what she does with her life when she gets out.

[@chickasawstarrmountain9747]

Wonder if the poor boy nick who has severe mental issues , she used to kill her mother is able to get out and get help 🤔

[@IsaacSperrow]

Unfortunately, she was home school-ed and didn't get the right education. Although I guess she could use her history to leverage some kind of TV/Social media-related thing.

[@annieliina]

@@IsaacSperrow honestly with the way she was living for all that time and her now being happy in prison, i could imagine that she would just love to have a completely normal life and job where no fancy education is needed

[@IsaacSperrow]

@Anni Eliina In any other situation I would say yeah, but I think with her having a record now, I think her life wouldn't be as easy. Hopefully, her other family members and relatives will help her out.

[@Tazzie1312]

@@IsaacSperrow She almost certainly can work on her education in prison, be it getting a proper GED or on-going education.

[@Chipelin]

"She would've been a perfect mom for someone who was actually sick" I know she was speaking about her mom, but I'm sorry no she wouldn't have. As someone who uses a wheelchair and had a great mom, the Idea of somebody getting any personal gratification from my illness deeply horrifies me.

[@livewellwitheds6885]

I totally aggree [im also also disabled] there's a huge difference between giving a disabled child everything they need [medically] and loving medical stuff and being/feeling fulfilled in the medical issues & treatment of your child

[@laurafrakinroslin]

In Gypsy’s defense she’s struggling with still loving a part of her mother and desperately looking for something positive to say about her

[@Chipelin]

@@laurafrakinroslin Of course. I have no problem with Gypsy or the thing she said (or did), really. It's just that this whole situation is a nightmare material for me.

[@hyperfox0934]

as someone with a learning disability and who uses a cane, yeah, yeah this. Listen, I had a fantastic mom in so many ways, and I love her fiercely, but damn! did she fuck me up. Anyone who will fixate on their child's disability, real or no, will fuck up their kid. They may only do so a little- like in my case- or they may do so so goddamn much it's practically unthinkable, but they're so damn far from being the "perfect" parent for someone with any type of disability. Still, Stockholm is a bitch, so I can absolutely see why she completely believed that.

[@polocatfan]

yikes didn't realize wendigoon was ableist. thanks for letting me dodge a bullet

[@dippin4dots]

"In a perfect world, people who are bad are punished for being bad and people who are good are punished for being good." - Wendigoon

[@tahlialysse]

Sometimes the only rational explanation is that everyone needs to be punished

[@worstusernameintheworld9871]

it's still equality if everyone is being punished regardless /j

[@archerymidnight3422]

I'm kinkshaming

[@mecaka9077]

@@archerymidnight3422 i felt kinkshamed when I heard it/saw the caption he added mocking himself

[@silver1340]

Slogan of every game / forum moderator or admin.

[@generalgrievous38]

Unbelievable series of events, I'm absolutely heartbroken for all of those children who will never know a normal life because of their abusers. It's shocking that it's even a thing!! On the opposite side of MBP, there is an illness that exists that exhibits many symptoms for almost no discernible reason that nearly cannot be clinically diagnosed with 100% certainty that I've had firsthand experience wtnessing in my own family: Lyme Disease, or more technically: Tick-Borne Illness. This illness can take the form of so many symptoms and conditions that seem unrelated, including those that imply someone is just lazy, that it is virtually impossible for normal doctors to properly diagnose. In fact, TBI (Tick Borne Illness) is so difficult to trace and define, health insurance won't even cover the medications necessary to treat it. It can affect all parts of the body in differing ways, from vast amounts of chronic fatigue, to difficulties in word selection in conversation, to lack of balance, even headaches, pain in various places, the list goes on and on. There are several kinds of bacteria and viruses ticks carry that can cause these symptoms, and can mask themselves in a kind of bio-film so that antibiotics won't even touch them. One of these bacteria are even small enough to pass through the blood-brain barrier, which is one of the "bugs" my Dad has been found to have. He literally has bugs in his head. Normal clinical tests and daignostics can turn up absolutely no evidence of anything being out of place, even as the patient is exhibiting symptoms, which can lead to YEARS of false diagnosis, and testing going around in circles until the illness takes its toll, permanently crippling the victim and removing any capability to lead a normal life. Miraculously, there are some people who can help. There is a clinic under Dr. Jemsek in D.C. that specializes in the detection, diagnosis, and treatment of this miserable disease that my parents have been going to for the last couple years. My father had one of the worse cases, where he would have difficulty recalling words for use in conversation, lose balance, experience headaches, and feel so fatigued that he couldn't force himself to get off the couch to do anything. For perspective, Dad was able to, and quite often, worked literal circles around me and anyone else, even in his 50s. He has a "let's get it done right and now" mentality when it comes to any project, big or small, so when he couldn't even get himself up to get the mail, that's mostly when my mother realized there was something totally wrong that wasn't just him being lazy. After going to Jemsek, my father is now back up almost to where he was before the illness took hold. The bugs will always be around, and he still has episodes where they affect him, but he hasn't completely lost that active attitude, even if only slightly. @Wendigoon, if you read this, it might be a good video idea to research and spread awareness and hope for those who live with it. I actually thought at first that this video might have been about TBI, but I'm grateful for the knowledge and research you've bestowed upon us about this equally heinous mentality nonetheless. Love your channel!

[@nyatrue401]

I subscribe to the "it's self-defense if the dead one is the abuser" school of thought. Domestic abuse, child abuse, etc. Abuse and trauma fucks with people's ability to gauge threat, frankly, we ought to be sheltering these people, and giving them therapy rather than prison time. Also, I'm studying forensic psychology! So alot of this stuff is stuff I'm learning!

[@Firestorm422]

I think it depends on the specific amount and severity of abuse

[@tarantulady]

If you raise someone to believe that their only escape from your abuse is to kill you, don't make shocked pikachu face when they kill you. Gypsy Rose did what she needed to do to survive, and I think she deserved a frigging medal and an apology from everyone who was too bitch to say something when they saw something.

[@albertoftasmania]

@@tarantulady Her boyfriend, too, deserves to be freed.

[@TheSMR1969]

Nah that's a called a good reason but not a justification, it's worrying that you could be a psychologist

[@shaggyhuh8596]

She could’ve just left with the bf. she CHOSE to murder her, it was 100% an option, they literally could’ve just left it was murder.

[@melinakorovessi713]

Casey Anthony murdered her daughter and got away with it. But Gypsy Rose was trying to protect herself from her terrible mother and she’s still in prison. Ridiculous

[@maxharris4722]

I think about that a lot. Gypsy has said that she has felt the most free in prison than she had at home, and maybe that was a good way to rehabilitate her. But she shouldn't be in there at all. The signs were clear. She was an abuse victim and was being held hostage by her mother. Sometimes I remember her release date and look forward to it.

[@AxelaxiB]

I think people put an overwhelming blame on Gypsy because she wasn’t sick. They wonder how she could be so “submissive” for so long given that she wasn’t sick. I think some type of Stockholm had to be at play. Maybe she thought maybe she does this to me but she’s my mom. And when she realized she didn’t really love her she decided to kill her.

[@maxharris4722]

@@AxelaxiB Munchausen by proxy effects the aggressor and the victim. Her mother made her believe she was actually sick for a very long time. Until she got to the rebellious teen phase where she started testing her own limits. Stockholm syndrome I think can serve as a symptom as a result. The people who put an overwhelming blame on Gypsy, imo, are the ones who don't see things from her perspective. She was a prisoner in that home. The times she DID try and get help, she was stopped by her mother. There is also the fact that Gypsy did not kill her. While she's involved by association, it was the boyfriend that killed her. And he pressured Gypsy into it. It's really tricky. Because she was an active part of the crime. But when you read between the lines, she felt like she had no choice. No one believed her when she asked for help.

[@MotherRat-ic6pd]

@@AxelaxiB also try telling people you arent sick when your parent figure will just tell everyonenthat you are sick and telling everyone that youre just confused. Even the police wouldnt help they have no way to proof it and no reason to listen to you if theres no clear sign of abuse. Even if she was more resilient she wouldnt have been able to get away especially not under the age of 18.

[@qwandary]

@@AxelaxiB I mean she was sick, she was being starved and poisoned every day of her life, as well as beaten and mentally abused, and gaslighted probably, seeing as she was made to forget her actual age so she could stay a child for as long as the mother wanted. She would have been physically sick and traumatised. The fact she had no inherent conditions was probs used against her, but she was absolutely sick, and its upsetting people would ignore that just to demonist her.

[@minapazderak5867]

I always found that MSBP, to me, could be defined as "someone who makes someone else sick (and in some cases dies) for the positive attention of pity and praise for taking care of a sick person." So like, if they die, that's okay to them. But murder isn't the goal. The goal is the attention, which is how it's different from serial killers.

[@AugustERaven]

Not entirely true, that last part, it could all potentially be considered under sociopathic, as while some serial killers only kill for their own benefit, those who kill for the purpose of semi anonymous attention, such as Jack the Ripper could be considered in the same category. Otherwise I'd say your point generally stands.

[@BigBenAdv]

0:38 - The official term for pretending to be ill to get out of work or duties or get benefits from insurance etc is "malingering"

[@ReiSilver]

I have a friend who told me about their struggle with factitious disorder, they have described it in their case as being a symptom of untreated mental illness. They had untreated issues and were living alone while quite young, after going to hospital from a legitimate problem and having the experience of being looked after they started to self harm to recreate the symptoms. This has left life long scarring and it was only through the intervention of a kinder doctor than most (Sadly a lot of drs will react with anger, that the person is 'wasting their time') and the knowledge that if they weren't stopped they would eventually kill themselves and no one would be there to look after their cat. Many years later they are doing much better, but it's left physical and mental scarring where they don't always trust themselves as being really sick because of the thought they could be faking and just not realize it. If you come across someone with factitious disorder please be kind, they're probably going through unseen problems.

[@nora4642]

See I see factitious disorder as different bc it’s self inflicted. There’s other shot at play when you harm another - dehumanization, disregard, possible sociopathy etc

[@bananawitchcraft]

I used to cut when I was a kid, not as a suicide attempt but as stress relief. One time I cut too deep and had to go to the ER and get stitches. I remember being hurt by the disapproving, almost disgusted attitude of the person who was stitching me up. Self harm is usually a symptom of trauma. Like anorexia, you're doing it to yourself, but you're not fully in control. It's victim blaming.

[@RadioPsychicAstrologyByPepper]

@@bananawitchcraft sorry that happened to you. I used to do that for the same reason and this was the late eighties and nobody talked about cutting as a thing separate from suicide attempts and I also did it slightly too deeply and had to go to the ER and the doctor there was convinced that I had been trying to end my life and he said to me that normally they would call plastic surgery to assist but he was going to make sure to give me the ugliest scar possible to remind me for the rest of my life that I wasted the time of someone who went to medical school to save lives and here I am this bratty spoiled teenager who took my own for granted. And that was not the truth at all but I still have the ugly scar almost thirty four years later.

[@mausilw]

@@nora4642 Factitious disorder by proxy is still very much a symptom of other untreated mental health issues… The difference is you don’t care that they have untreated mental illness because they harmed someone. Yet if they’d received treatment before they got to the point of harming someone, the crime may never have happened and you’d probably suddenly find their mental illness valid and feel sorry for them and say how glad you are that they got the help they needed. By proxy is still a mental illness and it is still most often a result of other mental illnesses and traumas.

[@mausilw]

@@RadioPsychicAstrologyByPepper Um? That doctor should have lost his license, what a massive piece of trash. That’s not something you do or say to someone, you don’t *punish* them for being depressed or stressed out. That’s just sick.

[@RTAbram]

It seems to me that Dr Meadows had his own form of Munchausen by Proxy, but instead of getting attention from hurting children, he got it by accusing mothers of having MBP.

[@kobban63]

Projecting

[@marhawkman303]

different word for that, but yeah....

[@rmt3589]

That's pretty meta, ngl.

[@watsonwrote]

I can't imagine going through the emotional and physical strain of carrying 9 children only to kill them shortly after birth. The mind of someone like that must be a terrifying place

[@toastgoblin9851]

Truly, i don’t understand what it is about the human condition causes this in some people but it’s horrible

[@Inky_doodledoo]

​@@toastgoblin9851 no doubt it was the sick pleasure she felt from it

[@moth.leaf.6003]

@@Inky_doodledoo It could've been postpartum psychosis. Not an excuse for murdering the children but its possible that after the death of her first child, she was never given help and started to deteriorate

[@Michael-ex8lk]

I don't think anyone with a properly functioning brain CAN comprehend such a broken mind and I don't think it wise to even attempt to.

[@Bobbbybags]

Why is nobody wondering who’s knocking this chick up? Like what’s that guys life like? 😦

[@TheTookiplatypus]

my mother was diagnosed with Munchausen by proxy when i was 11, she starved me, i ate only poridge for over 3 years, the sexual abuse i endured and mental abuse resulted in me becoming physically disabled, this continued until i was over 14 when i returned to school and lived with my father, not due to medical intervention but due to divorce, to be in custody of my sexually abusive and psychopathic father. this resulted in my mother going clinically insane and me living with my abuser. a school friend, to the point of Munchausen as a disease, his wife had undiagnosed bowel cancer for 5 years resulting in her death and was diagnosed with Munchausen for continually complaining about stomach pain. it is pure folly to put off this 'syndrome as such' as i would safely bet over half of all diagnoses are actually medical malpractice.

[@alexsnightmare]

I hate how much this stuff has caused doctors to just always assume people are lying for attention. My friend's been going through several doctors who don't want to perform surgery on her to fix her severe pectus excavatum (caved in chest). They just straight up think she's lying and didn't do a CT scan or, like, look at her at all despite the fact that the amount her chest has caved in qualifies as severe. In my own boat, it took me years to get diagnosed with POTS until one doctor heard that my hands get abnormally cold and went "hmm. Let me try something". He made me stand up with a heart monitor on me, realized my heart rate spiked, and made me do a tilt table test. Much love to anyone else going through doctors not believing you. You got this and I hope you get something to help you

[@morgan1076]

Yess went through years being told I was lying and making stuff up until I was diagnosed with pots at 14 because I passed out during an appointment

[@madeliner1682]

Yep, getting diagnosed with rare disorders is mostly a big circular argument of nothing getting done. I can't even count the number of times I heard that there wasn't anything wrong with me nueroligically or physically and we should stop looking immediately Or, my favorite, "I think she's just depressed" - like bro you know what's depressing? Sleep deprivation. You ever been so desperate for sleep that you started dreaming while awake or had full conversations while asleep, or all the other wacky things a desperate brain will do when it slips into REM at the blink of an eye but is never physically able to get the deep sleep that would make you actually feel rested? That shit is literally torture sorry I'm still a little salty lol

[@fromhell11112]

yeah my mum cant get a doctor to refer her to a specialist for a chronic condition she has, without referral its incredibly expensive, so shes stuck with medication that just doesnt work.

[@Scarletkingcowboy]

I have pectus excavatum and cant imagine a doctor saying I don't lmao. Bruh look at my chest.

[@smartfella7914]

If you think doctors thinking people are lying you should ses nurse tiktoks. The “Cool nurse that puts patients in their place” or “when patients fake being in pain for attention😂” shit is so infuriating IT IS YOUR FUCKING JOB TO HELP THESE PEOPLE WHEN THEY’RE INJURED YOU DUMB WHORES

[@Dj.MODÆO]

I know a woman that has munchhausens, my best friends wife. She spent 8 years lying to her husband and everyone else faking multiple illnesses ranging from cancer, MUltiple schlorosis, Lou Gerigs disease and fibromyalgia. She was eventually placed into a mental hospital after she was diagnosed with complex schizophrenia that also includes bipolar disorder and Munchhausens. That woman made my best friends life a living hell for years, and finally his life is returning to normal.

[@ellieminnow]

I knew someone like that. She was histrionic. She always had provably false things wrong with her. That's what was really going on.

[@admiralofcuteness]

Are you sure she wasn't a severe hypochondriac?

[@Love-you-too]

@@ellieminnow yeah that munchausen thing looks a lot like histrionism or narcissism. The need for attention gives it out. I got two fakers in my life and they were/are very toxic otherwise as well

[@cadmus2867]

I think the weird thing about the Munchhausen disease is that it doesn't induce a nocebo or placebo affect. Their is many questions to ask about it not having a correlation like; Does the patient themselves not think their illness is real enough?

[@_ee75]

Or does their subcontious somehow knows it's not real? But they continually think?

[@Julia_BH]

I personally think it’s caused by attention seeking disorders/disordered thinking in general. My mother was a narcissist and textbook BPD. However, she’s undiagnosed bc she’s “pERfEcT.” My childhood was filled with every kind of abuse imaginable except sexual (thank God). She will never seek help, and I will never speak to her again! Not without acknowledgment of her abuse towards me and commitment to change (and evidence of change), that is… I believe my mother knows about some of her lies and I think some of the others, she’s lied to herself so much that she now believes it. It’s hard to rationalize bc they don’t think rationally. And these types of people *rarely* seek help. The best thing that can be done is, if you have one in your life or were raised by one: cut the cord and come to your own understanding. My therapist says “understanding is the key to your personal healing.” The best book I’ve read thus far is “The borderline Mother” by Christine Ann Lawson. I have never felt so validated in my 30 years of existence. That book is everything. So although my mother remains undiagnosed, I (along with the help of therapists) have found answers to her abnormal and/or abusive behaviors and that in turn has explained *why* she abused me and has ultimately helped me move on. I have a long way to go, but I’ve come a long way.

[@frumtheground]

The actual illness is based on the fact that the sufferer knows it isn't real. Hence why there's no placebo, they're already aware that it's fake so their body isn't tricked into experiencing symptoms. If that were the case, then they wouldnt continually become "ill", but beleive they've been cured after initial medical attention. It doesn't classify as Malingering either because it's not faked for any material or practical gain. It's basically a very extreme and dangerous form of attention seeking behavior. Mutilation, poisoning, and injury is all done on purpose by the disordered person in order to seek some form of attention, like pity, praise, or general care from others. Hopefully that makes sense. The person with the disorder is aware that it's fake, but usually express that they're unaware of *why* they do it. This is questionable tho, because they could just be in deep denial or might be deceptive on purpose as to why they do it since the illness is largely based on deceptive behavior.

[@Flint-Dibble-the-Don]

Is there an opposite to Munchausen syndrome? I know a guy who goes out of his way to avoid all attention. He is me.

[@frumtheground]

@@Flint-Dibble-the-Don There are people who have Hypochondria (abnormal levels of anxiety about their health). Usually it's stereotyped as someone going to the doctor all the time because they think minor or sometimes normal health or body sensations are indications of something serious and blown out of proportion. This isn't actually the case tho. Hypochondriacs usually are too anxious to go to the doctor at all, even when they should. It varies in severity, and can sometimes be caused by past medical related trauma (ex: someone's mom died a long and drawn out death from breast cancer so that person is too scared to ever get a mammogram or something like that). If you're talking about avoiding social situations and contact, that could be a lot of things and if it's extreme enough that it impacts your quality of life you should probably talk to someone about it?

[@kenneyboi]

24:35 wendigoon predicting the e-coli outbreak in the bigmac meat, bro was ages ahead

[@geraltshmm5750]

Grandmother did this to my mother when she was a child. Forced her to take a bunch of medications, told everybody she was allergic to sooo many things, and she was always getting sick. Mom finally moved out and stopped taking the meds and all of her "symptoms" starting clearing up. Went on to live a fairly illness-free adult life.

[@Peckh]

My mother told me I had adhd and was bipolar along with a huge range of other issues as a child. Grew up for years thinking these things were true which in turn made them almost true. To most people I acted like I was bipolar and had these issues, wasnt till my step mom effectivly figured out what was happening and helped me get through it. Spent almost a year straight trying to convince me I was normal. Im okay, but the symptoms were getting worse with my mother. It went from simple adhd to bipolar disorder to potentially trying to convince me I was schizophrenic, even calling the police on me when I was 13-14 because I was unstable. I could see how if I didnt leave this situation it could of gotten very dangerous for me.

[@jlbeeen]

I had the exact opposite. My parents told me I was normal and to stop worrying, turns out I have ADHD and likely autism as well (could only afford one test, and ADHD gave me access to helpful medication). I spent years trying to hide it, hating myself for being the weird one and couldn't understand why people bullied me, or what they expected me to do. I'd have meltdowns in my closet and would get emotionally abused for things I couldn't help. I really hope that raising awareness for bad parenting types and mentally ill parents can help others find the support they need, and that family and friends can find courage to question people more often. I realize now that my dad was going through a lot, an eating disorder, a major obsession that was wearing him down, and a lot of anxiety, but he should have gotten help sooner, but it's hard to find help, let alone convince someone to go.

[@bucket6487]

@@jlbeeen We have relatively similar experiences (I am now diagnosed with ADHD and Autism). I thought I was useless and broken, I completely hated myself. "If I'm normal, why do I struggle with these everyday things? I'm clearly just inadequate" is a thought which I genuinely had. I'm still healing but (thankfully) I struggle much less with self-loathing now. Parental figures really do have a massive effect on us :(

[@ItWasRevealedToMeInMyDreams]

oh sweetpea, i couldn't imagine that pain and experience and same with the many others who are commenting; i really hope with time and treatment you've been able to heal as much as you can, it's so awful when people like this, so uneducated in these diagnoses (You have to be evaluated as an adult for any Schizo diagnosis to actually be valid in most cases, and much older than 13-14 to have anything more than traits diagnosed of any mood disorders such as Bipolar, same with any personality disorder) so it's even more upset not only was she beyond lying and manipulating, she didnt even know wtf she was taking about when she did it:( and I really hope you are in a more save and stable environment that you're able to flourish and grow 💗 thoughts and prayers cant do much in reality but i hope you know wholeheartedly that's all one gave give a stranger over the internet. Self help apps like BEING. (it's free) have a variety of mini therapy sessions so if help is still needed and you need a lil buddy in your pocket- BEING or Woebot are two amazing self help apps that are free and actually provide many coping tools and other necessary things to provide improvement to our mental health 💗 Nobody is "normal" but i hope you've been able to find who you are in this life for this time.

[@foxybrown1g]

I remember watching the mini-series on Gypsy Rose. It was amazing! They did a great job. That being said, I was so upset when I found out that she went to jail. All I kept thinking was that she was in jail for 18 years of her life! Why punish her for 10 more years!?!?

[@TheDankCat127]

That story of the woman poisoning her boy with salt makes me so angry. That poor kid…

[@jiggityjack8113]

Yeah, I live near where it occurred. I remember our local news blew UP during this time.

[@starcherry6814]

He suffered his entire life :(

[@l0stgr4vity64]

I hope she is in prison for life

[@KokNoker]

If that angers you, you'll be apoplectic over the story of Arthur Laninjo-Hughes. I'm starting to think intentional salt poisoning is more common than we would hope.

[@Breeze45-s4h]

lmfaooo

[@ashcatalina8149]

Finally!! Someone else who FINALLY agrees with me that Gypsy Rose did nothing wrong! She should be set free & given the help she needs. Her mother absolutely abused her for her entire life, she felt like she had no other way out or away from her mother. She was in fear of her life. Thank you for sharing this video!

[@wildflowerpersimmon2226]

Someone needs to start a #GypsyRoseDidNothingWrong movement and get it to trend.

[@curnies]

Honestly most people who even know 5% of Gypsy’s story can understand why it ended the way it did. That poor girl had no chance for, day 1.

[@agnethernstrup2210]

i mean she did manipulate a mentally challenged man to kill someone for her, shes not completely innocent

[@ashcatalina8149]

@@agnethernstrup2210 that’s true & an excellent point. I’m not saying she’s entirely innocent but she did what she did out of indirect self defense. She was mentally and physically abused her whole life & that likely effected how she felt at the time- she was trapped & probably felt like she had no other option. Obviously manipulating people and ending their lives isn’t in any way good, but that’s probably all she knew- her mother manipulated her & in order to attempt to stay alive she had to manipulate someone else. Still, great that you brought that up ! Thank you! 🙂

[@kellyrose53]

What she did wrong was persuade a person with a low IQ to commit a crime and get himself put in jail.

[@Spufflez]

It's because of people like this that it's so hard for actual disabled people to get the care and treatments they need because we are seen as "faking it." I've had to insist on treatments from my doctors before and fight tooth and nail to get proper diagnoses. Recently I had melanoma excised from my arm. I had to tell my dermatologist that I would pay out of pocket if need be for them to biopsy the mole on my arm that was getting darker and growing over the past few months. (I also have a family history of skin cancer which my doctor was aware of.) The doctor took one look and said she didn't think it was cancer but would biopsy it because of my insistence. Then she ended the appointment by telling me to stop being "so anxious" and to see her again in half a year. A week later I get a phone call from the doctor's office, they found cancer cells in the biopsy so I had to come back for surgery. It makes me so goddamn upset because people with ACTUAL illness get treated like we are faking when people pretend their kids are sick so they can get sympathy. I'm also taking Humira due to Crohn's Disease. I would not wish this illness on anyone. This disease landed me in the hospital and almost killed me back in 2019.

[@ht21]

Always ask for a second opinion. And idk that Factitious disorder is that commonly thought of in medicine, I think it’s just medicine not taking women seriously and overconfident physicians not wanting to listen to concerns of patients.

[@Emily-om3ct]

i've had a dermatologist literally just choose to not do tests ordered by ANOTHER doctor on a skin biopsy because to the naked eye she thought she knew i didn't have what they were looking for. i've been diagnosed with what they were looking for btw

[@darbypea2223]

I see people have a lot of trouble getting an actual diagnosis for Crohns disease. Most people I've met that have been diagnosed have very similar stories of going through hell with their doctors just to get answers

[@SaigesArstgo1031]

@@ht21 disabled people not being listened to is a common thing across gender, race, etc. Were also called drug seeking. They think were faking it

[@tarantulady]

I hope the humira puts you in remission. I'm on Enbrel because I made antibodies against my Humira, but my Crohn's has become the least of my issues with the Enbrel which is nice. Hopefully science finds a cure for us and then the only sick people will be the factitious disorder fakers lol

[@DOC_951]

Realistically, this is a very very rare disorder. It loves to show up on board questions, but in real life - not so much. Illness anxiety disorder (hypochondriac) is also quite rare but sometimes seen here and there… but no, not fictitious disorder. From what I’ve seen, it’s as low as 0.6% of cases. It’s one of those things that almost isn’t even worth talking about because of how rare it is, though it’s extremely recognizable when you do have a case of it.