The Cost of Being a Musician in 2024 | Janek Gwizdala Podcast

In a continued effort to be as transparent as possible with my process, this episode breaks down some of the financial realities of running several small businesses as a musician.
It all started as being "just" a bass player, but it's come a long way in 30 years and is still evolving. With business interests in online education, content creation, writing books, making documentaries, producing, writing, recording, and touring as a musician, there is enough subject matter for 50 episodes.
This scrapes the surface and gives you a brief look inside what my day to day looks like. Please jump in the comments below and ask questions if there is something major that you think I missed.
My Mayones is for sale here: janekgwizdala.com/store/p/fjr...
Signed or Digital Bass Books Here: janekgwizdala.com/store
Physical Books at Amazon: tinyurl.com/mr3afp7a
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#musicbusiness #runningcosts #fixedcosts

[@AlexandarShmex]

Basically, being a professional musician is a nightmare from the financial side and you have to constantly grasp for straws to make a buck. ESPECIALLY if you're a jazz or avantgarde musician. I'm happy to be a hobbyist, I'm not forced to go out and play music I don't like, constantly send e-mails and make calls to get a gig, I am free to just enjoy the process and do my own thing. There are some musicians that make a good living and have a steady income, but it's rare. I remember Damien Erskine, who's a great player, saying that even today he's constantly searching for gigs and has no security... But, if you're really obsessed with music and being a musician, none of this matters, you simply have to do it and doing anything else is not an option. I really admire your drive and dedication Janek, I hope your future projects work out the way you want them to!

[@gunthertobias3909]

👆🏼When you play music life-long what else would one want to do? I"ve raised families and about 15 years older than Janek. When you have it in you there is nothing stopping you and it drives one ligfe-long! And no ! Not be a freaking content creator. @Janek this is a great one and man what else to do ? Stern cals Equinox first tune and one has to testify. Great to see Cliff recently!!! He has not aged at al since he was 18. Also, DO not stop! What else?..... sell watches?

[@janekgwizdala]

I strongly disagree with it being a nightmare to be a professional musician. It's not for me. At all. But what you do see a lot of people talking at length about is the struggle. A lot of the time without providing some sort of solution. There is always a solution. The hardest part is being honest with yourself about how far you're willing to go to get it. Most people don't have that honest moment early enough in their process, and end up suffering as a result because they haven't adapted the skills necessary to thrive in the music industry. You have to give the process a truck load of respect, otherwise it's going to bite you in the ass and the next thing you know, you're sharing a cabin with a 400lb drummer who farts and snores all night playing brown eyed girl on a cruise ship 6 months at a time, all the while wishing you were on tour with Taylor Swift or The Eagles. That can mess with your head if you get deep into the process and never asked yourself why you're going what you're doing. The answer is always there. It's often hidden, it can take a long while to find sometimes, and once you find it you'll almost never like 100% of what it tells you you need to do in order to succeed. But it's there. Justin Bieber was discovered on KZbin. he has a net worth of around $300M. Not a barometer for happiness by any means, but a measure of what is possible from nowhere to the top. Musicians who tell you they are scraping around for a gig to the point where their lives suck (I don't think that's the case with Damian at all BTW), are simply not willing to make the changes necessary to break the cycle and start making forward progress. There is also a funny irony with being a jazz musician that I've always been aware from the very beginning of my career. I always knew how much the top jazz musicians made, not even artists but sidemen, and I knew what sidemen on the road with the biggest artists in history were making. Save for the very few who respected their bands like Eric Clapton, Sting, Peter Gabriel etc... The touring bands made barely enough to live on, and make even less now. A touring musician with Usher was making in 1 week what a touring musician with Herbie Hancock was making in 1 night. And sometimes the gaps were even larger than that. It's a small market, it takes an incredible amount of work, but if the goal is to work in jazz and, like you said, nothing else matters, it is totally possible to have an incredible life and not worry about money. I'm excited to dig deeper into this topic as the months and years roll on, and the more time that passes the more data I'll be able to share.

[@gunthertobias3909]

I agree with you 100% Janek on your well stated and clear views about the struggle. It is not a nightmare in my estimation it is a honour and a road to navigate with grit. precision and ability to adapt just like. a fine musician should . Many challenges like any industry except where do you have the chance to seek universal truth in arts and love + music in many industries? Yea may be corny, yet for those that continue the quest it is to varying degree”s true. I have said this 40 years! There is *always* a solution. I could not agree more with you. I'm not putting anybody down. I'm not being judgemental , perhaps to be more accurate that is not my intention at all. But I find all too often but far too many people sit and complain and do not think about solutions.In fact solutions are part of creativity. Been said to me more than once at a very young age 16 touring Rock Star wannabe -“life is 99% solutions, 1% problems. Now this cliché still rings true since the age of 16. I just flipped from rock-stardom and Stars, I do not think the music industry is for everyone. I will give that certainly a nod. And what I mean by that is that some people probably should stay in a career that has more stability, a safer ride and environment so to speak. Others that have that drive that love whatever that is where you cannot put your base down guitar drums etc. - what are you going to do? You're going to have to learn how to adapt to new technologies, new trends, present trends and adapt and care ones way through it. Its not one is better than the other it is this that really are in ( balls ) deep what are you going to do? I personally genuinely enjoy teaching another revenue stream. That is a different revenue stream than playing/performing. That have cut back last 12 years. And doing bad gigs that have less than desirable flights and destinations is a choice made at age 28 not 31 and was offered a large legendary rock gigs I was listening to Trane and learning. I would not do it. I agree with pretty much everything you hav said, not Tha that you need my approval as a someone on the net. Doing a boat gig and and wanting the Taylor Swift gig are two entirely different things. There is nothing wrong with doing a boat gig. I've never done one and would not - the flip-side I'm not chasing the game of fame there is NO gig I want today except my own and those I love to play with. I would not want to be chasing in doing the roll calls and the hangs that one has to do in tour city. Been there done it checked out with no regrets! I've done Holly-Rock. I learned a lot. I learned what I do not want to do. Just what I do want to do is go to play a place like the dump and paint the walls red black and blue. Period. Look at Willis, he chose not to be everyone’s favorite bassist by age 26. Ask him.,.,…. John P can be everyones and plays freaking most everything amazing. And he is that guy personally and musically and desires to be perhaps Both are correct and neither are wrong. It is a tough place to be to be "a jazz musician "and navigate make money. People that make money like Herbie and pay fantastic. Are far and few between there is only a few of them in the world. In fact as you well know probably the most generous ever was Wayne Shorter. He had the capital and very kind. Flashpoint of want to just make that I totally agree with you on is that it is a very small market on a global scale. So you can either embrace that or fight it. You can either take part in it or you can carve your own. We all have the people we love. It sounds like for you and someone like Tim Miller, Bob Reynolds, Cliff and others. There's some very close people. Everyone is sitting in the world reading your posts I think that's something worth bearing in mind. Keeping that at the four front of mind that if you love the people you play with and there's a residence of soul mind and body that has a distinct sound of itself you no longer have to live in New York City OR LA./ Paris London unless you're chasing a gig. Back to your interview with Seth Godin. Your tribe, or do you need is 1000 or is it 2000 people willing to spend $100 a year. It’s very simple it’s very streamlined it shows the brilliance of his mind. In the logic behind it is so simple. Finding like-minded people as an artist to create art with is not always as simple. But when you do,…… You have an artistic resonance a far better business sense than I and thats fantastic! Will tune in and see what comes via this topic. One worthy of much more discussion as many contribute in various ways/levels ( a book??) to flush out ideas and goals. And I feel not at my best by saying what I'm about to say. I think a lot of people make it an excuse because they're not being creative and do not have to grit and drive to be relentless day in and day out year in and year out. It's not an easy road. But one can make a very good living. Its not for everyone Music? Can not think of much more I would rather do than music and my family. Great post Janek. -- i became excited ! Continue …..........Janek! @@janekgwizdala

[@Dariotoma]

Nightmare is a big word, it can be but it can be avoided. It's a matter of choices and contingency. Be a husband and a father of 3 made me quit...their lives being more important than my passion. Did I made mistakes in my career choices that lead me at the quitting point....of course. But that's life . But kids get older and indipendents at some point. Do I have plans to go back to my passion and make a living or a partial one out of that.? YES I DO 😎...and basically thanks to you Janek and to your vlog 10 years ago. I've changed my goals and my strategy. So i'd say that is not a nightmare...it's a dream...but what kind of life it would be without dreams to chase ?

[@PhilosophyLines]

@@janekgwizdala It's 'possible' in that some individuals have achieved that (an incredible life as a touring jazz artist and not worrying about money), but it's a bit naive to suggest that's realistic for most people I think. Some problems don't have an answer - I don't think you'd consider it realistic for you to be make a great living as a singles player on the ATP tour, even if you made all the right moves. Why is music any different? Talent doesn't exist? You might think you could make money 'in tennis' (I know you have) but that's not really the same thing. Similarly, writing books about music is not really the same as making your living touring under your own name, which is what a lot of people get into this wanting to do.

[@collegeofcool8109]

Valuable and very generous video.

[@unicornslikemath]

I’m only 8 minutes in, but I really appreciate the transparency. You’re a solid human being. Cheers

[@ericwarren753]

I now order the books from you because it makes you the most money. Good move on your part!

[@wallace_nelson]

Great Video 👏🏿 Thanks For Sharing. Really appreciate it 🙏🏾 That is one of my favorite of your books.

[@funktastically]

wow, thank you for covering this…i’m very much still “just a bass player” but that might change! this transparency is incredibly valuable. i’m also sick 😅 feel better!!

[@gregdefazio1478]

I already own most of your books. But the ones damaged do a scratch and dent sale for those 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[@hoot7588]

Janek, you could sell them at a knockdown price at in-person events that you do, e.g. clinics/gigs close to home? That way you don't have to spend any money mailing them, plus people can see the damage before they buy, so no chance of someone being unhappy.

[@andrewoconnor17]

Or scratch and dent bundles online, or grab bags! As long as the content is there (no missing pages), I'm sure many people wouldn't mind taking a damaged book.

[@carlolee2116]

Hi sir. The genius bassist ang the genius music author and teacher.

[@stevendawson2331]

I hope you and your family are all feeling better! I'm one of your European customers and I did go to Amazon for a few books because I like having them in my hands to take notes... I have far too many digital resources that I don't use, but I find I work my way through physical books far more reliably. I greatly appreciate what you do, and Dual Lock is the BEST.

[@billyjay1]

Great video and well explain. Thanks Janek !! 🔥🔥

[@JasunMunczip]

Enjoyed hearing the entrepreneurial approach you take to make it happen as a musician. Thanks for your insights and the level of transparency you offered. The stereo looper shown at 32:15 looks like it’s from SaturnWorksPedals. It’s off topic, but mentioned in the video.

[@dmitriikilishek]

But man, those rejects, they can be sold with a discount still! I bet some people would be up to buying them with say 25% discount for example.. and you won’t end up with a loss

[@janekgwizdala]

Definitely considering launching something like that on the site if I get enough rejects...

[@bassnsax]

32:15 Saturnworks Pedals! I have one of their 4 in/4 out 1/4 patchbays that I'm going to put on my upcoming pedalboard build, and I might buy an effects loop with output volume to tame my Way Huge Atreides pedal's outlandish output! 😅

[@Hogman666]

Interesting watch, I have been doing the DIY Punk Rock thing for a long time and its the mailing out that is the killer the time... but you have to get your art out there!

[@soundcanvas1450]

Music is healing & musicians train & study much longer than a Doctor does. Ah but both the musicians & the medics do it for the love , the sharing & the humanity of the art. Every dollar that comes back as thankfulness is deserved . If the support drys up we will all be listening to machines on machines.

[@kirklobo3880]

Always known you were a watch guy Janek. Would love a collection video sometime. We enjoy your honesty and openness. God bless.

[@Energy_from.the_Sun]

I second that. Watch collection video would be dope.

[@hoot7588]

@@Energy_from.the_SunJanek did do a really good watch video, last year I think.

[@janekgwizdala]

I did one on my second channel that I was trying separate the podcast out to for a while. The video didn't do too well...

[@kirklobo3880]

@@janekgwizdala awesome! Will try to look for it, thanks!

[@janekgwizdala]

@@kirklobo3880 kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2Koe3qGgNuKn80

[@joninawhitecoat]

Regarding the damaged books, if you do Podcasts in your studio you could get guests to sign them so there's unique books full of autographs that would compensate for any damage on them. They'd be then very collectable. Regarding watches, do you watch any Watch KZbinrs? Quite a few of them are musicians. Oisin O'Malley has been a professional pianist and bassist, and he has worked as an arranger, and musical director. Adrian Barker is a guitarist. Jory Goodman is a drummer.

[@janekgwizdala]

thanks for the suggestions and the heads up on musician watch people! I'll check them out.

[@papabearwinegarden]

If you have printing rejects, you should offer them for sale at a discount. Maybe a couple times a year have a flaws and B-stock sale.

[@edbass624]

Hey Janek I just saw the news on the whether in California and I hope you and your family are OK. ( I’m from Puerto Rico that way I just saw the news!) thank for everything you’re doing for the bass community. ✌🏻

[@janekgwizdala]

I'm from the UK... so a little 🌧 never bothered me. People here have no idea what to do with it though, and it's pretty funny 🤣

[@MK-yu1di]

RE shipping. Shipping to my area is ridiculous so I bought the digital books, too easy. Some buyers might be ok with slightly damged books at a discount. Great vid, thanks for sharing Janek.

[@dorioferreira8835]

Janek, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom!!! You are a fantastic, are you still playing tennis?

[@janekgwizdala]

Very much so! 🎾

[@gcvrsa]

I do want to say, on the subject of retail sales cost, that one of the hats I've worn in my life was purchasing manager for a specialty retailer, specifically fine and commercial artists supplies, and a 50% discount off the MSRP was the standard. For promotions, I might be buying at "50 and 25", which is 50% off, and then 25% off that, or a total of 62.5% off of retail price. So, if a product has a retail price of $25, as a retailer, my wholesale cost is $12.50, so Amazon only taking 40% is actually a really good deal, considering what they offer the customer.

[@janekgwizdala]

I totally get how those numbers work in the traditional marketplace, but Amazon works a little differently with their book publishing service. They're not really purchasing the product from somewhere and then simply taking their cut. Part of the KDP service they offer is the printing of the books in-house. They do it at what I can only imagine is an insane mark up compared to what it costs them since they own all the production equipment. So for every $25 sale I make on Bass Player's Guide to Pentatonics on Amazon for instance, they charge 40% of the $24.99 sale, plus $3.87 for the printing costs, netting me $11.12. So the actual cost to me it over 55%, not 40%. There is also an option for what they call "Expanded Distribution" which allows big distributors to sell to libraries and universities for instance at a far higher cost to me. It basically cuts the final royalty payment to $6.12 on a $24.99 product. It's always a tough call to decide where to draw the line. Use the expanded distribution to widen the reach of the book? Or try and market more to the regular Amazon retail music audience which will pay a higher royalty. 🤷‍♀

[@gcvrsa]

I was just thinking the other day that I'd love it if 3M made black Dual Lock 350 with black backing. And yes, for how much that stuff costs, they ought to offer you a sponsorship/endorsement deal.

[@HIGHPOSTERtown]

….Vicariously through janek.

[@jasondelorey5552]

Might be personal business, but how did the convo go with DR strings? They need a JG signature set... Or at least start setting a E to C 5str set.

[@drbassface]

The Golden Era is over. I came up playing six nights a week in one great band at a time.…making a wage that made life affordable. Then I had a 14 year full time gig at a Major Theme Park. I had four great Bass subs. We had full benefits and AFM Pension contributions. I wish those full time gigs still existed.

[@janekgwizdala]

They do still exist for sure. My wife happens to be a music producer at Disney so I see first hand the kinds of gigs on offer here in Souther California at Disneyland. But I'm sure they are a fraction of the volume of work that was on offer in the time period you're talking about. But like anything, times change and we have to adapt to the current climate. I could be really bummed out on a daily basis if I thought about all the reasons I got into playing music in the first place not existing anymore. Record deals, solo tours, tour support from a label, tv interviews, magazine covers... I was fortunate enough to do a little bit of all of those things right on the tail end of their existence, and I'm very happy doing what I do now which has very little to do with where I started.

[@drbassface]

@@janekgwizdala Those Disney Cast Members Fulltime Gigs are down to only a handful, at least in Orlando. Disney does hire lots of contract groups…but that has zero benefits, no pension. Pay way below the Orlando Union Collective Bargaining Agreement with Disney with the contracted rates, and those gigs are very limited engagements. Not Fulltime to go on for years. Is it different in California you are saying at Disneyland, verses DisneyWorld?

[@THEMADWATCHCOLLECTOR]

Janek!!! Let’s talk watches!!!!!!!

[@janekgwizdala]

Literally ANYTIME! Shoot an email to the website and let's get into minute repeaters, split second chronos, grail watches, and G-Shocks...

[@gcvrsa]

If you have "factory seconds" that are still readable, you should offer them at a discount. I'd strongly consider buying them, myself.

[@janekgwizdala]

I'm definitely considering it after all the feedback on this episode.

[@mipabass]

All your books are available on amazon europe with no or standard shipping cost…

[@janekgwizdala]

And your point is...? I talk about exactly that in the video.

[@mipabass]

@@janekgwizdala …so why complain about shipping costs? That is the price to pay, if a signed copy of your books is important to the buyer. Maybe more than the content? I buy your books and watch you videos because of the rich content and not your signature. Keep up the good work.

[@camerakungfu]

One thing I don't think you mentioned in the production of the book is design, Interior and cover layout as well as just paying Adobe for their software. If you're not a designer you'll have those costs as well - and for something with graphics and chord charts the cost might not be insignificant.

[@janekgwizdala]

Very good point! We use adobe indesign, and Sibelius. Subscriptions for both are around $70+ per month total. The cost of a designer can range from $2,000-$5,000 per book depending on the workload.

[@sebprice1230]

Hey janek! Would absolutely love to see you play in Perth Western Australia you gotta come through 😊

[@janekgwizdala]

It's been way too long since I was there. Last time was in 2009 at the Ellington if I'm not mistaken. I have to crunch the numbers over the next couple of months and really make a push for some touring in Oceania! Is that club still there...? I wonder if they'd consider having us for multiple nights... might make it a more realistic prospect if there is more than 1 night to work.

[@sebprice1230]

@@janekgwizdala unfortunately I was still in school when you came through last time and so devastated that I missed it! The Ellington is still running strong here and I’m sure they’d love to have you for a couple shows… there’s also the Rechabite that supports live music …. They recently had domi&jd beck, Ezra collective aswell as yussef days in a few weeks time. I know there’s many fello musos here that would support your arrival here !!

[@gcvrsa]

I know this video is about a lot more than just the tools of the trade, but I just wanted to say that I'm sort of surprised sometimes, when I see people talking online about how much guitar and bass gear costs, because from my perspective, professional level gear isn't a huge investment for a professional or serious amateur musician who is regularly playing public performances, and even less so for an enthusiastic amateur hobbyist who doesn't gig that often, but makes an average salary in a different career. For instance, a Fender American Professional II Jazz Bass V will in February 2024 cost you about $2000 USD brand new. A Mesa/Boogie Subway D-800+ head and 2x12 cab will cost you $2600. You can put together a pro-level pedalboard that covers most needs (let's say tuner, preamp/DI, compressor, HPF, to start) for less than $1000 USD. Even if you consider the cost of cases/luggage, strings, cables, and other accessories, let's call that another $1000 total, you can outfit yourself as a gigging pro for about $6600 with no compromises and all brand-new stuff. The median household income in the US is about 10 times that, now. I didn't include things like buying your own monitor system, or recording gear, but I think my point is made. And you can, of course, buy used and that will cost a lot less. My current main instrument (Music Man StingRay) and amp (Mesa/Boogie) were both purchased used in mint condition. Only the pedals on my pedalboard and my accessories were purchased brand new. As for the cost of producing recordings and publications, I've done both, but not in a long time, so anything I could say on those topics is out of date.

[@janekgwizdala]

I think the portion of this video concerned with bass gear for live shows was actually way less of a focus than the fixed and running costs of the several small music-related businesses I own. To your point about the cost of live gigging gear: I understand that it was from the perspective of "you COULD get these things and come in at $X for a pro rig", but the chances of the list of items you laid forth being someone's ideal setup are actually quite slim. I think that's why so many companies stay in business for so long. I often marvel at the range of prices and gear myself and wonder how they do it... but the next thing I know I'm in need of something really specific, and it's not made by a big box company like Fender or Yamaha. I know I fall on the pretty extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to pedals, but still... some of my smallest fly-date and touring boards come in north of your entire rig budget without even trying. The board in this recent video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqLPiIqgl9qcoNE comes in (incredibly conservatively considering some of the pedals are so rare you can't get them anymore) at $4,471. And that's my day-to-day "basic" rig. This is not a flex at all, just a reality check for anyone reading who thinks they might be able to get an identical setup for the kinds of numbers you mentioned in your comment. My Amp head is $1,000, and a matching 4x10 cab is $1,250. The cheapest bass I play on a regular basis comes it around $3,850, but my main bass runs around $10,000. So that's around $17k, on the conservative side, for something that works for me as a professional bassist. Again, I understand you CAN do it for considerably less, but I just wanted to be completely transparent about what I use, and what it costs. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but to say even $6,600 is not a lot of money for someone not working in music is a little tough to wrap my head around. $6,600 is $6,600. Not an insignificant amount of money for most people with a "regular job" outside of music. The costs involved in recording music are on a hugely sliding scale depending on what your needs are, but here's a ballpark of what my last two records cost to make. in 2022 "One Way Out" cost around $13,000 all-in, and in 2023 "Night Watch" ran a little higher in cost due to taking the band to Argentina to cut it. I haven't run the final numbers yet, but I know it's in the region of $14,500. I also know that my running costs for the year, across everything I do in music, run into 6 figures in a "slow" year. When I have a good year, the number gets even crazier. I hope this more in-depth perspective helps clarify my position and expenses for anyone reading.

[@steffengotsch]

While watching this video I learned that my band is in debt to the record company to the tune of $116,000.

[@janekgwizdala]

That is sadly not uncommon... Even more insane is that you could have made your own record for $10k, and supported a month-long tour without having to sell a single ticket for a fraction of what the band owes the label.

[@tylerrayhughes]

What is you camera sitting on causing it to move?

[@janekgwizdala]

It's a motorized slider.

[@homebass1103]

I’d second the sentiment of a “scratch and dent” price for the blem copies. Also for UK/Europe/Latin America, is it possible to partner with a store that may be 20-50 copies, etc at a time at a “dealer” price and then link on your site for international buyers? Let the stores handle shipping. Just a passing thought. I’m sure you’ve thought of it. I prefer digital media due to a “minimalist” approach and I don’t want tons of physical media around the house. Great video. Thank you for sharing.

[@kennethandymanfortecorre8263]

would love to own a copy of your book to bad im from Philippines 🇵🇭 😢 the shipping is probably too costly

[@janekgwizdala]

Not with Amazon if you have it there. It should be cheap, if not free if you have amazon prime.

[@michaeljoeallen9412]

Have you had your bass plecked or dressed by a tech?