The Cost of Climbing out of the Saddle

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[@dylanpudiak7963]

Climbing out of the saddle is one of my favorite sensations on the bike. Long climbs you need to sit but I love mixing in some standing. Also the steeper and grade the more reasonable it becomes to stand.

[@Cokecanninja]

There's a climb in my area that's so steep I can't climb it seated because the bike wheelies and dumps me off the back of the seat, it's only doable standing

[@sportbikejesus6297]

I feel like these 3 very smart guys have somehow forgotten they stand to sprint. I mean nobody denies you get tired faster when standing but Jonathan is saying you don’t actually make more power standing. Okay, stop standing when you sprint. These days I don’t stand when climbing unless I’m making a sprint effort over the hill. In the old days my smallest gear was a 42x23 and there were 17% hills I absolutely couldn’t turn the pedals over while seated. I still think there’s value in alternating standing slow rpm and sitting high rpm to take turns resting legs and lungs respectively

[@jameseaves71]

I love climbing out of the saddle, it’s almost more relaxing. Climbing seated on the mtb for traction is fine, but dancing on the pedals on the road bike is too much fun.

[@mtnbikehead]

Yes, it’s very efficient to stay seated, but I find that switching up my pedal stroke which means standing from time to time for short periods helps keep my legs feeling fresher. I have a couple of longer climbs that I always do better getting up and over the top if I do up to 30 seconds standing every few minutes. If you get your hearing right, to match the grade and pedaling efficiency, it’s not taxing at all. Legs almost always feel better when I return to seated climbing.

[@Cokecanninja]

Standing is when max power is needed more than efficiency, like a sprint. It's also nice to stand up sometimes to get the pressure off your butt for a minute or two

[@jbratt]

Pedaling out of the saddle is not as efficient as being seated but you can apply higher torque for a short amount of time. Sometimes this is useful on a very short climb or getting a quick acceleration needed to close a gap.

[@denali9643]

Pantani was my favorite all time climber. Not only did he stand a lot, but he would be in the drops more than on the hoods. Crazy.....

[@ebigarella]

The term "gravity help" is misused but the point is that you're using the weight that was on the saddle to push the pedals down. You're releasing your body weight on the downward moving leg whereas the upward moving leg is unloaded.

[@hollowright]

I agree. Also, standing raises your center of gravity and allows your knees to bend less. The straighter your knees, the more your skeleton is able to support the load rather than your muscles.

[@ketjuariittaa]

I think that main reason why cyclist pedal difrently (in saddle, spinning more, standing ex.) Is that they can put workload to difrent part of body to ess up workload on main muscles. Spinning take that workload more on heart, standing to core. ”Legs have hollyday when pedal standing”☝🏻😉😇

[@jasonosunkoya]

I definitely find its way more costly. Even though I put out more power out of the saddle, I find myself very tired much quicker than if I just stay in the saddle. Caveat, if you know the climb is all of 1 minute, it seems to be worth it, just.

[@marksIItimewarps]

It's actually 'easy' to climb out of the saddle if you can duplicate Alberto Contador's out of the saddle technique on your riding style. Ironically, it's a relatively complex technique, takes a while to get used to. It took me a while to figure out after watching his replays in slow motion. It may look inefficient with lots of body and bike movement but surprisingly makes the task light and easy especially on the hands and the core muscles so you can concentrate the power on the legs and glutes. He's not really wasting energy with all that extraneous movement. All the movement is conserved, it seems their racing team did pretty hard science on the stuff!

[@bugabutu]

I've noticed this morning on my climb I pictured this side to side hip movement Contador does out of the saddle, almost like the muscles turn on and off to conserve energy, the climb felt less of an effort and my front wheel would have this snakelike movement

[@danemery8312]

Guys, what about shorter climbs? We're presently in the middle of the UK Hill Climb season where climbs are generally 2-5 mins only. I'm a sitter but the best amongst us are mainly standers.

[@vivianvandermerwe1380]

Yes but I think doing a 5min hillclimb, although very intense, is very different from a 2 or 3 hour race. I have found on longer races to stand only to give my bum a rest for like 10sec or when you attack or sprint at the line. In races where I have tried to stand multiple times and long periods out of the saddle on climbs I am so tired at the end of the race and then it catches up to you

[@vivianvandermerwe1380]

So yes to anwer to your point made, I think on shorter hillclimbs it would be better to stand if you train yourself to be able to do that, but maybe alternate between standing and sitting down? To stand for 5min straight is pretty long!

[@danemery8312]

@@vivianvandermerwe1380 I agree entirely. The hill climb scene in the UK is essentially a full gas, up hill TT. The question therefore is so the guys think seated is always the right way given the opinions they express about power, torque, cadence etc in this video or whether there are exceptions.

[@danemery8312]

@@vivianvandermerwe1380 think our messages crossed there.

[@vivianvandermerwe1380]

@@danemery8312 Sorry I added the second reply before your first. Standing you can definitely generate more torque and power, so on short hillclimbs I would think that would be best, but it catches up to you quickly. I dont do hillclimbs but would think a combination of standing and sitting (just to recoup) would be the fastest way, or are there guys that can stand full gas for 5min?

[@marcusdali3997]

It would be nice to have a graph to go along with the explaining of the energy needed in the saddle and out of saddle. A MatLab model would be nice then we can test and see all kinds of scenarios. So in spin class standing is a big part of spin what's the purpose?

[@ds6914]

Some riders do better out the saddle for hard efforts up to an hour. Yates, Contador, Pantani, Woods... it might be more efficient for them to stay seated, but in the same way it's more efficient to do 50mph than 70mph - more efficient but slower.

[@htukmumfie]

what about our 25-30% climbs in the uk? sitting..rpm is rediculously low. standing is way easier. but otherwise, if the climb is over 10mins, yes sitting is better for sure.

[@steveevans424]

As an M.A.M.I.L ( Middle aged man in Lycra ) I find standing on all short climbs ( a LOT harder effort ) has significantly upped my cardio - power and sustain on the flats

[@Bayo106]

Exactly what I do. I get out as much as it makes sense to and sometimes more as a means to train the ability

[@rd2783]

I don't the physiology or physics, but for smaller riders < 57kgb, it feels climbing out of the saddle is better as I can generate more power over a longer period than seated. It is also more comfortable to get out a static seated positions. I am not racing, so I don't care that I signal to other riders I am standing. Also my goal isn't to be the most efficient as well.

[@A.WTolver]

Thanks TR, Good content as always. This video confirms my thoughts on the subject matter.

[@sirairness24]

Hey guys! Great videos. Love the content and I certianly gain a lot of knowledge watching them. Quesiton though, if climbing out of the saddle is so inefficient then why do we as cyclists still do it?

[@TrainerRoad]

We touched on this in the video but the benefit is that temporarily passes the load to different muscle groups and gives you a psychological break.

[@sirairness24]

@@TrainerRoad Excellent!! Appreciate the answer! Makes total sense.

[@kylecouture1917]

Sorry but i have to disagree. I feel like im saving energy when i get out of the saddle on ahorter climbs. On longer climbs i switch constantly.

[@DeadzoneDnB]

On longer climbs I feel it's important for me personally to be able to climb the whole thing seated. When I attack I'm able to average 800 watts for 1min +, however I couldn't achieve nearly the same amount of power seated.

[@WanderingSword]

This discussion requires strategy too. Out of the saddle climbing costs more for the big guys than it is for the smaller guys. If you're a small guy and you're looking to drop the big guys way before the crest of a climb, then you may want to go out of the saddle and drop the big guy even if it means it will cost you more. There is definitely a use for out of saddle climb, especially for the smaller guys.

[@JohnDLBB]

Efficient or sustainable?

[@JohnDLBB]

@@cuy50 Efficiency would be the ratio of actual useful work performed to the amount of energy expended. Sustainability is being able to maintain a work rate without depleting the energy supply.

[@404nobrakes]

John B yep. I personally use standing as a way to keep my HR in check when booking it on steep climbs. Yes, it completely burns up my legs and back, but it’s better than exploding because my HR crossed 195bpm and grinding to a halt. Lower HRs usually indicate more efficiency, but of course you fatigue much faster when out of the saddle. Similarly, spinning faster will reduce your efficiency (more energy goes into reciprocating your legs) and your HR will go up significantly, but your legs will fatigue much slower. This is why I take all those studies that show “80rpm is the most efficient” with a grain of salt. I’m not looking for momentary efficiency. I’m looking for sustainability across 1-5 hours.

[@dominickbergeron797]

For the same effort intervals (in watts) my average heart rate is 3-5 beats higher for the standing interval vs seated.

[@mancampovestiminvatam]

I use it for pain relief or when I feel I'm giving up on the climb.

[@mark-1234]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about but it sounds like you're creating a couple of straw men. I can't sustain a fast cadence standing so before I stand, I'll shift up a couple of gears to slow the cadence. Also, when standing, I'm not expecting just gravity to help me. I'm also pulling on my bars.

[@baribari600]

standing is faster if you're severely overgeared

[@flxgreen6346]

Its better to practice it , cause when ridinv in a group there is a point almost eveyone is out of the saddle and if hou dont mirror them , you get dropped quick

[@TheMASDrummer]

Lance Armstrong dislikes this video

[@ryancrawcour1567]

hahahahaha. who cares what Lance thinks when it comes to cycling!?!? he's a disgrace to cycling all over the world.

[@ronskayakingandfishing414]

I use it during training to stress my legs further and I feel like it really hits my quads better. Usually just my hamstrings are blasted but standing hits the quads also. But yeah.... to stand during a loonng ride (100 miles or more), no thanks.

[@ImGlossy63]

I do repeats (10x) on Torrey Pines and always alternate between seated and standing for each climb. Watts don’t change during each 8 min climb. Was always wondering if we use any different lower muscles when we stand vs seated.

[@Methodical2]

I'm not the strongest climber and prefer to sit and spin to save my energy for when I reach the top where I can then use that saved energy to catch back up to (or sometimes pass) the group and/or the rider(s) who sprinted up the hill. I like the look on their face when they look back and see me on their wheel. Weeeeee. For the record, I don't race.

[@geoff4705]

Contador.

[@mikicastan]

I can climb standing for hours on mtb,with greater power number. I can’t do the same on the road bike

[@buckroger6456]

I'm a out of saddle climbing beast. I find it faster and easier.

[@steveevans424]

I dive out of airplanes, I find faster to get to the ground than landing lol

[@D_in_DC]

@@steveevans424 hahahaha... good one!

[@Bayo106]

same it depends on the hill though. obviously when the hill is 2km or longer then sitting makes sense. if it's like 500m then you could easily stand for it

[@buckroger6456]

@@Bayo106 I'll stand and pedal 2-3 mile hill climbs.

[@DavidvdGulik]

Same for me, I like to climb out of the saddle for extended periods. It's all in the way you use your bodyweight to sway. It's a kind of relaxed bounce. Most people who say they can't climb out of the saddle just use the wrong technique. Edit: what I mean is using your bodyweight to enable the correct technique. Not to try to put more force through the pedals

[@PinPointEnts]

Tried it and climbing out the saddle was a better result for me.

[@krisp6401]

I find its better the less fat you are. Basically everything in cycling is better if you aren't heavy.

[@annukun7318]

im onlu out of the saddle if its 10 percent gradinet or more

[@reflectionsdetail]

would be great to have quantifiable data, we all have personal experiences by what does actual data say.....

[@danielfox1301]

For this one we do have lots of data, read thermodynamics.

[@dravindarkcloudable]

I would like to make a comment and maybe ya'll can expand on it. I am.a very small male rider. I put out 220w seated and 250w standing on climbs. I have a terrible time holding 90-100rpm uphill, though can do it easily on a flat brushing 260w. But when I climb I almost always end up standing and as soon as I do I go faster. But I don't bob like a cork I tend to get my torso stationary and unhindge my hips, like a sprinter, and i lean to accommodate grade. But I can climb like this faster than seated and for much longer. Much much much longer. I can stand for over an hour without reprieve but seated i will begin to struggle to hold 220w in 10min or less. At any rpm. Roadie and TT.

[@forzaviola9512]

Devon Waldo 🦄

[@pierrereuvers8189]

More power isn't always more efficient. Sitting is for most people less power but more efficient. So if you can do more power more efficiently, by all means. If you can keep on racing strong after standing that long, then it works for you. Just bear in mind, more power needs more fuel. So just check your fueling as well, that you don't run out of energy.

[@pierrereuvers8189]

Very informative and well explained. You guys know your stuff.

[@mariconor242]

I put 165mm cranks on my bike and noticed that it feels better to stay seated with higher cadence compared to the 172.5mm cranks I had beforehand. Any science to that?

[@TrainerRoad]

Thats great! The science would suggest that your height, crank length, and optimal efficiency are all correlated. More importantly, if it feels right and you're more efficient, roll it! ;)

[@investireocaminho33]

Spin to win...✌👏

[@DCassidy42]

A higher rpm with less power is still more energy distributed to the wheel vs low rpm and high power. Watts don't always tell the whole story. 55RPM at 500watts vs 110 RPM with 300watts for one min, the 300 watts is actually more power over one min, but if you were to just glance down at your power meter you'd think lower rpm and higher power is faster.

[@alphacharlie65ms]

I am stronger seated in the saddle on climbs.

[@TheNosarajr]

Nate looks exhausted to me.

[@user-lq6vp9el6l]

Unless it’s over 65 miles, who cares? I love out of the saddle.

[@Bayo106]

this

[@allthingsTechrelated]

Out of the saddle is use by sprinters most often so it has it’s purpose.

[@eterlizzi]

Max Williams yes, it still produces the most watts, but at a cost (one can’t sprint forever)

[@Methodical2]

@@eterlizzi One of the reasons they play around near the finish line to see who will bite first on that last sprint to the finish. They know they only have so much to give at such high watts.

[@futerko108]

I no longer understand the concept of gravity in a non-Newtonian universe!

[@chrisburke9721]

I guess Alberto Contador winning those grand tours with all that standing climbing was doing it wrong.

[@JTMarlin8]

They mentioned Contador specifically as being one of the exceptions.

[@Bayo106]

@@JTMarlin8 because he trained it. people should train it more. even seated he is a beast

[@JTMarlin8]

@@Bayo106 Sure, he trained standing, but that has nothing to do with why he can do it efficiently while others can't.

[@Bayo106]

@@JTMarlin8 that's everything to do with it lol. do a ton of core work and or train standing. stop making excuses bro

[@ryancrawcour1567]

they clearly said "there are a few exceptions to the majority. comparing yourself to these abnormalities is insane. there's a reason these guys a pro cyclists, they're not normal.

[@aaajjworm]

Lance Armstrong, Alberto Contador, Marco Pantani laugh at your lazy seated economical climbing skills. Dance like Lance, baby!

[@ryancrawcour1567]

yeah, hindsight shows us that it wasn't the "dancing on the pedals" that made Lance a good climber. just saying.

[@aaajjworm]

@@ryancrawcour1567 I'm assuming you're referring to PEDs? He climbed better than the rest of the tour that was on PEDs.

[@huntingsynth]

If you got a seat...use it