The Crazy Story of Sonic Frontiers' Development Secrets

[@theredcrossofficial]

Understanding what Frontiers is supposed to be, it’s pretty clear that this game needed to happen so Sonic Team can finally understand what we want from them.

[@Rman1228]

I think that describes it the absolute best. There's always been this large disconnect between what we as fans want from Sonic Team and what Sonic Team thinks we want. Hopefully with everything Frontiers was able to accomplish, this game will have walked so the next sequel can run

[@Keyblade_welder_13]

I just pray that Sega will let Sonic Team work at their own pace and give them the time and resources to make good Sonic games. To me, Sonic Frontiers was just alright. I really wish I liked it, but I just can't do to all the jank. But there is potential here. (Even though I don't like the idea of waiting five years for a beta test and being sold for 60$) I'm still skeptical for the future because Sega still loves making bad decisions with this franchise. And there's definitely some things in Frontiers they gotta improve. Like the poor animations, the pop in, the parry and how the other characters control. Like Knuckles's awful glide. Sonic Team does have a nice foundation here, but it's just the matter of Sega not meddling with the potential.

[@Hyperdragon1701]

It's not Sonic Team. It's always a decision from higher up. Think the devs can't see the things we the players can see?

[@Rman1228]

@@Hyperdragon1701 Honestly yes, in some aspects. SEGA hands down mandates and deadlines, not gameplay and design decisions (for the most part)

[@agentomecha634]

Sonic Frontiers being considered as the foundation or blueprint for the future of the Sonic series makes sense. Like Sonic 1 and Sonic Adventure before it, it’s rough and unpolished but demonstrates what a Sonic game can be. If that’s the case, I’m interested to see how Sonic Team will build upon Frontiers with future installments and use the lessons they learned from Frontiers.

[@josephfrye7342]

Unpolished sonic 06? Fuck man

[@ALegendaryBlueHedge]

I genuinely want to see how this new open zone formula gets expanded on in the future. Sonic Team has loads of potential to get really creative with overall level design

[@tylerd1297]

This rails in the sky layout just didn't work for a whole game. Use it to make actual sonic like levels/worlds

[@kingdanett4043]

I would love just one open world that portions of get unlocked after progressing the story. I imagine like one that is half city half wilderness, with multiple biome types in between. The city would feel a lot like mirrors edge, jumping off and around rooftops with the ground being almost like a different landscape. Then the nature half would be multiple biomes that feel just like this game. I think I'd be cool to have all the levels take place in the open world, similar to things like spiderman where most sections will be set outside but sometimes you'll go inside places that aren't in the open world but feels connected. Also having the portals I think is a really good idea for traditional Sonic stages but I'd like a more connected way to introduce them.

[@Sonic-VA-]

They almost had it, got close by the 3rd update.

[@tylerd1297]

@@Sonic-VA- i feel like literally every good sonic game the past 10 yrs we say "this is good, a step in the right direction if they expand on this" and then they don't 😂

[@tylerd1297]

@@kingdanett4043 sounds like the overworlds of adventure

[@xist4622]

The same old argument keeps being made: -'It was their first game on wii U, the next one will be better' -'they spent half of development working on hedgehog engine 2. The next one will have a full dev cycle' -'they were just testing things out. The next one will be better because now they are sure what people want'

[@pinktrutle1490]

Its not an argument tho. It's a FACT. This game is a global playtest for the next generation of sonic. Period. The next one WILL be better no matter what as long as they stick to the formula.

[@allansrt04]

Actually it is a fact, not an excuse, this game is a medium experiment (AA) to see people's interest in order to make a triple A game that Sonic has not had since unleashed

[@slyp5409]

We’re seeing promise with the Shadow portion of Generations right now

[@flynnroberts7787]

Focusing on a bigger budget is a task that's worth the sacrifice. Frontiers is a comeback, and that's what I wanted. I pray that the team will give it their all in the next one. Edit: Wow, never thought that this comment got attention! I might have caused a small argument, but still!

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

Its a bad game. This is a AA game. If you think this is AAA then you dont know other videogames

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

Dude… seriously if you think this is a bad game how would you develop the next open world sonic game?

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

​@@jonahabenhaim1223There are hundreds of other great games out there. Sonic Frontiers isn't good

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

​​@@jonahabenhaim1223How would I be in charge? Someone other than Sega/Sonic Team. Sonic Team games are always bad. Always

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

​@@jonahabenhaim1223Modern Sonic games are terrible. Making them open world didnt change the bad level design

[@TehJellyLord]

Honestly, I really do understand why they did end up adding all the platforms and whatnot to make the game feel more Sonic-y… but the final product that is Frontiers doesn’t feel like the game they wanted to make. It’s probably better for it, but I’m genuinely curious about how the beta would have been like. It seems like it would have been more artistic, in the same way that something like Shadow of the Colossus would have been. Honestly it might have been a little better had they gone with the original vision, especially because the way they “made it more Sonic” was but stapling a Sonic game on top of their existing realistic open zone environments. So idk what to think. It sucks that we had to have a whole game to basically act as a beta feedback machine for the next game.

[@lpfan4491]

Had it being more artistic, people would have hated it.

[@Azurald55]

Feels like they really should've included more platforming in the original concept, it made so much sense that i'm suprised they needed feedback for it. Like an open world sandbox with sonic but with a focus on the combat instead of cool platforming? i get that cyberspace existed then but that doesn't mean there shouldn't have been none in the open zone. it would've been boring if all the open zone had was enemies and the plain backgrounds. In the next game hopefully they will integrate the platforming into the world from the beginning which would be perfect. Like there can still be floating areas and stuff but have it blend more with the environment. When I think of a Sonic open world area I don't think of something like BOTW or Infamous but instead Mario Odyssey and I'm glad that's where their leaning towards.

[@tardissins7512]

The fact that the forces models and animations were reused makes much more sense considering this. Why create a ton of new assets for a “rough draft” when there are polished ones ready for use right there?

[@julianx2rl]

Sonic Team: "I'm not asking you to forgive me, I just want you to understand"

[@derple8524]

Me: Still don't but ok, just don't put out another unpolished game for $60 😩

[@deanmoriarty6015]

Maybe they shouldn’t have released it for $60 then. All this shows to me is despite constantly talking the talk, they do not and probably won’t ever know what we want and how to make it happen. They’re fundamentally incompetent.

[@انس-ض6ي]

​@@derple8524 Sega decides how much the game will cost, not Sonic Team.

[@ThibautMahringer]

Even if some people are not happy with Frontiers, just knowing that this game will allow the next games to have bigger budgets is an amazing thing.

[@BIZZARESUMMER-km5uy]

I thought frontiers had mostly positive reception?

[@joe_mama__]

@@BIZZARESUMMER-km5uy Yeah but it's not perfect

[@sumnahlennon5449]

How will this mediocre game allow bigger budgets? For 2 decades every new Sonic has the 'just wait for next game'

[@sumnahlennon5449]

​@@BIZZARESUMMER-km5uyI dont know about mostly positive. The game is not a trainwreck. Its not as bad as Sonic Forces. But Frontiers is much worse than all other platformers and all other open zone games out there. Its basically Sonic Lost World.

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

To allow a bigger budget, Sega must be convinced that a larger amount of fans will buy the sequel. As things stand, casual gamers disliked Sonic Frontiers. Sega wont give Frontiers 2 a bigger budget if only hardcore fans will buy a sequel. Look around. Is anyone here that even talks about Frontiers not a hardcore fan? Thats what Iizuka wanted to avoid

[@DemX_HaX]

a very good thing about them understanding the shortcomings of this game is that future games will have a focus on what works. another good thing is that the dev time will be much shorter so i wouldnt be surprised if they announce a sequel being developed within the next year or two

[@sumnahlennon5449]

You say the same about every bad Modern Sonic game. Thats called the Sonic Cycle.

[@DemX_HaX]

@@sumnahlennon5449 i dont actually lmao. i havent had faith in sonic team since sonic lost world

[@ghhn4505]

I believe Kishimoto actually said they're already working on the sequel, very exciting.

[@LoliconSamalik]

@@sumnahlennon5449 Riiiiight. And pigs fly because the illuminati gave them superpowers.

[@0zerios0]

​@sumnahlennon5449 The Sonic Cycle is more like: 1. The game gets announced. 2. Fans start to get excited and hope this is the game that will finally redeem the franchise. 3. Things start to get progressively worse the more content fans see before release. 4. The game is released and is terrible. 5. Repeat. In this case, when the new game was announced, expectations were on the floor. Especially after the huge dissapointment that was Sonic Forces. When IGN released the first footage of Frontiers, everyone's fears seemed to be true, and even Sonic Fans were expecting a bigger mess than Forces. Throughout time, and as the Fans were shown more and more of the game, the hype went on a steady rise, and when it was finally released, while there were mixed reviews, most fans could agree that Sonic was back. The same fans that trashed Forces into oblivion and continue to beat its corpse mercilessly agreed that this game was good, not perfect or amazing, but GOOD. All of these ideas show tremendous potential, and if expanded upon could make for an AWESOME game. It is posible for SEGA to screw everything up and release a trash game despite everything? Yep, absolutely. But they've shown us, after so many years, that they know what they are doing, and this hope is exactly what many fans needed, since a long time ago.

[@thesegadreamcast9864]

Does anyone else think the lighting looked WAY better in the early frontiers footage

[@ceciliavaldez843]

The switch: nows my time to shine! *insert nuclear bomb sound*

[@thesegadreamcast9864]

@@ceciliavaldez843 Yeah lol the switch version of this game is basically like watching a 480p KZbin video

[@sinfulrat287]

Every game during development looks great since it's being developed on strong hardware but they usually need to tone down the graphics and optimize the game on release, that's why the beta footage looks so good visually

[@Youarewhatyoueatsonic]

@@sinfulrat287it’s especially weird with frontiers though. Even the footage close to release looked better

[@Flaco2393]

As an actual game, I couldn’t agree with you more. Sure, modders are capable of making additions to the complete game, but they don’t have to meet exhaustingly close deadlines to then work on other projects. Basically, it's not fair for gamedevs to have such a crunch time to make an amazing product. That said, as a Sonic Game? This is without a doubt the best foot forward by SEGA. Sure, they could’ve and should’ve given it more time to develop, but this is a great beginning for a new era of Sonic.

[@rubydragoon720]

I'm a big fan of development histories😀

[@thealandude9146]

You know, the whole bit where Sage says Sonic imagined the rails in the DLC really just make sense with the whole added platforming and rails in the later development stages, "It's not Sonic enough/Boring" So Sonic just imagine the platforming to make it more fun

[@thealandude9146]

I've been saying this ever since I play the game when it's out, I'm super exciting to see what Sonic Team have in store in the future seeing how Frontiers is like a blueprint for the future and how much feedback they are listening to

[@the_stranger833]

with the playable characters we got in update 3 i think they can really build off the game engine that was used to make a " sonic adventure " style game

[@Alejandro333777]

19:19 interesting I think it’s one of the longest amount of time I spent with one sonic game since sonic adventure 2 battle when it comes to replay ability. 22:30 that’s interesting too. 27:11 yesss

[@Glitchboi82]

Man, I'm just so happy I became a sonic fan during the pandemic. The amount of awesome stuff we're getting just makes me so happy that I haven't gone through being disappointed at a sonic game's release yet. And, who knows, if they keep improving like this, maybe that day won't come! 3 weeks later: Sonic dream team was announced.

[@lasercraft32]

I _really_ wish they had designed the ancient structures and the terrain itself to act as the platforming for the open world rather then having the floating platforms and grind rails, it would have spiced up the open world visually, and would have been more cohesive (obviously they didn't have time to do that though).

[@allansrt04]

or floating platforms made of a material consistent with the islands, kronos, rhea and ouranos (grass and earth), ares (sandy stone), chaos (volcanic stone)

[@hydrodynamo6558]

I'm actually not mad about sonic frontiers being a test, especially since in the end, it was still incredibly fun and very refreshing.

[@toekneemart5597]

I'm excited for the future but for me(who is awful at critiquing things considering how I actually liked doing master king koco's trial on hard mode and found it very fun when I realized it was a huge perfect perry tutorial disguised as a boss rematch) sonic frontiers was 100%worth every cent I paid for it if not more

[@Handepsilon]

The whole trials are in fact Perfect Parry Tutorial, I think. Think about it. Faster, parriable enemies -> Less parry window. Snake trial enemies -> Optimizing parry and attack rhythm makes for the best strategy

[@toekneemart5597]

@@Handepsilon yeah maybe but the fact that I cleared the snake trial without even thinking of pressing perry makes it a tad harder for me to make that connection

[@Handepsilon]

@@toekneemart5597 yeah, honestly those trials, even if I say they help you practice perfect parry, has all sorts of flaws in them

[@AAhmou]

​@@HandepsilonThe last two trials should have had perfect parry.

[@Handepsilon]

@@AAhmou Agreed. That would've made a lot of difference at the very least

[@deslardesslok]

23:37 I mean they say that every single time "More budget to the next game" and we still get low budget rushed games I do not trust them saying that because it's has NEVER been true 7:36p.m. 10/9/2023

[@pinktrutle1490]

When has sega president ever said that in the past, also we have proof that this is happening. Sonic teams has been rapidly hiring new people said by both iizuka and nakamura

[@crocsito6060]

​@@pinktrutle1490unleashed

[@gordon3002]

I've been waiting for a video like this since Frontiers came out

[@bowserbreaker2515]

I'm glad they sold us a test this time (A great one at that), so I'm glad they are going to be putting in even more next time.

[@DrakeIgneelson]

24:20 You forgot about Pokémon. Every beginning of the next generation, they essentially became a test model for the successor in the series (barring Generation 8).

[@lukasfuhrmaneck9101]

Okay, I don't normally comment on this sort of thing, but I have something to say about your reaction to the people defending the game and I hope you will hear me out. I get that there were a lot of comments recently that were not nice and I'm sure that's playing a role in how you feel towards people defending this game, and I certainly don't approve of people being toxic or harmful towards critics or creators. However I do feel like there is an aspect of this that you've overlooked or failed to mention, and this doesn't solely apply to you, it's something I'm seeing a lot of critics fail at recently. As you pointed out Frontiers is a game designed to be critiqued, but the way you presented the idea of critique is strictly from a negative perspective, or at least that's how it comes across when you say things like "People should absolutely be vocal about the shortcomings of this title." but fail to acknowledge that praising the things that work well is also important. Critique isn't solely about pointing out the flaws. To critique something is to thoroughly analyze it, both the positives and the negatives. Now I'm not a regular of your channel I'll admit, but as you've stated you've played a lot of Frontiers and it's possibly your favorite game. So I'm willing to bet you've made videos where you praised aspects of Frontiers before. I want to be clear that I'm not saying you need to repeat these points in every video, or that you need to be more or as positive as you are critical. What I am saying is that if your goal is to critique something it's ideal to try and find a healthy balance in your critiques where you are thorough and clear about aspects of the game, good and bad. I feel like your last couple videos have failed at this balance and leaned too far on one side of the scale, which could potentially do more damage to the development of future Sonic games. Now I know you think it's unlikely that Sonic Team watches your videos. You're probably right about that, but its still possible that fans of your channel could receive the wrong message and thus change public perception of the game even slightly. Now I'm not saying that would be your fault at all, I don't believe that. I'm only bringing up this hypothetical scenario as an example of what can come from unbalanced critique, hopefully that helps explain why a healthy balance is important. And don't misunderstand me, you come off as very reasonable and I'm sure you are trying to be balanced, I just feel like your past few videos failed to be balanced overall, which I also think contributed to some of the negative response you received. Now don't get me wrong I'm not justifying any toxic behavior here, I think that's horrid. However I do believe there were probably a lot of people defending the game who may be unfairly getting lumped in just because they wanted to counterbalance some of your points. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but at no point did I hear you acknowledge that constructive praise was important, but rather you repeatedly implied that defending the game was a bad thing. That simply isn't true. Constructive criticism is important, in this case it helps the devs understand the flaws with the game and what needs to be fixed. However in the same vein constructive praise is also important because it tells the developers what we liked about the game and what we want to see more of. Both are important, and we shouldn't shy away from either one. Which is why I think your stance on not defending the game is flawed. I agree we shouldn't be overly defensive, just like we shouldn't be overly critical. I hope what I'm saying makes sense here, I'm not trying to say you're overly critical, but I do think that you've been a bit unbalanced and I don't agree that defense of the game makes someone look stupid. I don't think that's what you meant with your statements but it can come across that way, and I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

[@flameblastv5151]

Hopefully Channel Pup sees this

[@Sone01TheFirst]

Same here, I'd probably be counted in the category of Frontiers defenders despite being critical of Horizon(I find myself preferring the old ending because of consistent functionality and the monologue for example) but that's because I'm always gains what I find to be either a bad critique or someone just being hyperbolic/aggressively toxic with their critique. This whole issue with people being asshats goes both ways here.

[@موسى_7]

I love learning about the business and development side of gaming more than the actual game itself. Nice video. I like the idea of selling an experimental game like this, because putting this on the market means the developers can gauge whether the audience is willing to pay for this, and the developers can benefit from fan feedback.

[@truemetalsonic]

Id be happy for them to keep the frontiers tech but i want level designs and aesthetics - give me seaside hill but huge, green forest but dense with 6 pathways through it. If eggman land was backtrackable with no werehog - thatd be a great level to explore with frontiers sonic.

[@raspberrycruse3795]

As a fan who grew up with the classic Sonic games up to Generations and was on the Sonic Forces hype train, I was admittedly very cynical of this game ever since it's debut gameplay reveal since I didn't really sense that much confidence behind the trailers nor staff which was alarming to me for a big franchise but I can't blame them. As more trailers came out and I heard that rock I felt a new energy that laid dormant surface and I can say that I'm pleasantly surprised by the end product! While it still has it's ups and downs, it meant a lot to see old and new players become immersed once again and don't get me started on the character development! All in all while I may not be as immersed here, I can't wait to see where the future of 3D Sonic games will go from here!

[@marshyboy4637]

Personally, I'd handle going forward with 4 small games and then the next open world game. It'd be cool to see a 12 stage sonic game of him just exploring a new island with low stakes. Also 3 other small games that shows amy, knuckles and tails' adventures then they can have the next open world game

[@teamsonicchannel4400]

Isnt that basically superstars

[@marshyboy4637]

@@teamsonicchannel4400 It'd be 3D games and for sonic, would be somewhere between SA2 and unleashed gameplay. Ideally around 3-7 minutes per stage

[@dummmi_balls9424]

That's a great idea to test out and refine Sonic's movement physics and include momentum gameplay

[@mechashadow]

​@@marshyboy4637I think this is a bad idea for the IP. It was most successful and popular when it was releasing games in different genres everywhere so there was always something new to look forward to. Having 4 Sonic 3d platformers before the next open zone game will just make the fandom keep asking when is the next Sonic Frontiers game for many years then while getting sick of the next release till then. I believe they are smarter than that strategy-wise.

[@marshyboy4637]

@@mechashadow Yeah that's fair. But I wouldn't want them to be big budget platformers. Hell, you could even cut sonic's game out but I would want small games to keep the fans busy or there while you make the big game

[@RaiginAnimator]

This makes so much sense Sonic frontiers 2 is about to go CRAZY

[@theDABTAB]

You helped me find the words I lacked. I made a personal thoughts post on reddit about update 3 and called the game "Interesting, but lazy". To someone the word lazy made it seem like I called the devs lazy, which I guess it would sound like, but that is definetly not what I meant, I just used the wrong word. Instead of lazy I meant unfinished or unpolished. I liked a lot about the update, but I didn't like the trials, especially Master King's trial, both because the difficulty of the trials being... stupid, but also because I had other hopes and expectations about the trials, with them having unique enemies instead of sped up ones or just the titans on repeat with no rings. And there are also other faults with the update, but there was a lot of good things in it, hell, it was mostly just positive things. Great music, story had some issues but was fine, the final boss was great but hard to figure out how to beat it if you didn't look up a guide or do cyber space stages and fail once, playing as Amy, Knuckles and Tails feels great (mostly, Knuckles' glide feels a tad off), Sonic's cyber space stages were great with how they both had unique objectives but also a unique gimmick for every stage, etc. But you could tell that even with this update they would have needed more time. Thus, unpolished or unfinished is the word I should have used but didn't come up with at the time. As a btw, I removed the reddit post shortly after because I realized people misunderstood me and got angry because I complained about something I got for free. I even said that I know I can't really complain since it was free, but even free content can have faults and it should be fine to discuss them. Also, yeah, it's not that we are tired of old zones, we are just specifically tired of Green Hill, Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary due to the amount of games they have showed up in. If they made a game and had, say, Marble zone, Hilltop zone and Hydrocity for example return, then that would be fine. I'd love to see a 3D Studiopolis.

[@Acesuper811]

Thanks for the shout out! Appreciate it 😅

[@tsumetai_kaze]

24:18 Tell this to the DMV, and you'll be laughed at lol

[@ChannelPup]

This is an excellent comment.

[@Spider-Man-257]

I would love more open world Sonic games in the future with the realistic Aesthetic. More playable characters. Just wish they could do online play in the future.

[@khalifeh22]

Here's my initial pitch for the next plot of the next mainline Sonic game: The Evil Genius Dr. Eggman, stumbles upon a potential concept of a maniacal tactic, an invention that can change one character, and switches their minds between said characters. If Eggman can't defeat Sonic because of his speed and endurance, then why not take those away from him. He can switch sonic's body with a weaker creature for example. Rendering him useless in combat and speed, but maybe better in other areas, like intelligence. While another being, like metal sonic or any other robotic or living being enjoys those Sonicy features. Then, Shadow will have to take his place as the speed element of the game. Meanwhile, sonic will have to resort to team CHAOTIX in order to figure a way to infiltrate Eggman's kitchen of inventions, in order to find a way out of this debacle. This will force shadow to do all that he can, with the help of his old comrades, Rouge and Omega, to avoid the bitter permanent outcomes that can come out of Eggman's devious plans. This will all be a diversion, as Eggman assigns sage to monitor and manage all the current happenings while he crafts his masterplan. Whatever it is.

[@omarnsouli1555]

Just clicked on the video but just want to say I love hearing these stories it’s interesting now it’s time to get the juicy info

[@adammyers7383]

Holy shit Pup this is amazing work. Fantastic research, super nuanced, very educational, just utterly fantastic all around.

[@Celtic1020]

24:01 the problem is that is an inherently bad idea. Don't sell a tech demo as a game.

[@bluequills80]

This is all sounds like speculation, rather then a discovery that you uncovered.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Huh, interesting, this would explain a lot, if this is the case, then i am looking forward to the Next Game even more. Also, at this point, i wonder how Superstars will turn out.

[@vi6ddarkking]

I honestly hope they take the right lessons for the sequel. Keep the more sirius and engaging story. Keep the art style. I mean can you imagine Station Square and Mystic ruins as an Open Zone. Or flying in between the Skyscrapers of Central City almost Spiderman like. And something like Soliana or Eggman Land as a true free roaming experience. And let us play with more characters. Honestly playing around with Amy's, Knuckles's and Tails's, broken movement options int the later stages of update 3 was an absolute blast.

[@mistersp3753]

Shhh! Don't tell anyone! It's a secret.

[@RaiginAnimator]

23:33 Shadow generations kinda proves this

[@GamerBot125]

(Long Read Warning) I can understand why people would prefer not to have games that are not polished or have us the consumer be a company's 'playtesters' behind a paywall. You should always have your best quality being presented to your consumers. But knowing that Sonic Team had fully intended this to be a playtest not just for a small amount of people but for the world, well, I guess the way of 'distribution' would be at fault there but you don't really have a way to get the immense amount of feedback that Sonic Team received from just a couple of playtesters. One thing was for sure, they at least made it as fun and enjoyable for us as they could. And with the sheer amount of 'playtesters' who voiced their thoughts about the game, regardless of how we had to pay for it, the move was honestly quite a risky bit of genius imo. They took the opinions and thoughts of not just a couple gamers who may have been either good/casual/unbiased and decided to take everyone's thoughts into their development cycle and i think their 3rd update showed the results. They made The End boss a much more epic yet harder fight (mechanically speaking) than the base game did and they gave us quite the difficulty spike due to so many of us wanting it to just be a bit harder. Some people couldn't finish it, I even struggled during a couple of the trials, (Looking at you Crane...) but once i got through all that struggle and got to the final fight, that payoff was worth every second of struggle i spent getting there. If the next game will have other difficulties, they should save that difficulty spike/perfect parry requirement for hard mode. (Some of you masochists are doing the 3rd update on extreme and i tip my hat off to you psychopaths) But rest assured that I am looking forward to the next game. P.S.: Kishomoto has said before he would like to work on a Sonic Adventure 3, so I think this game was a HUGE stepping stone towards that direction.

[@jokered1133]

I haven’t tried this sonic game but it looks like fast food, just whatever but still enjoyable, hopefully they go all out in the next title, I didn’t know about the free dlc which I think is actually great and makes me itch more to trying it out, I thought the shortcomings of the game would be too drastic, but it seems like it oddly kinda worked. Hopefully the next title when streamlined, polished, and perfected would be amazing, they’ve already took the big risk with frontiers, they should try to keep the formula and just expand it, especially with the dlc they released. The thing I don’t understand is why does Sega bother with developing their own engine because it seems like it’s been hurting their development with every title, I remember Forces only had about a year of development with 4 years making the engine, and frontiers seems to needed more engine work due to the open world nature and even that got heavily edited mid development to include rushed sky rails and platforms which are great for gameplay but visually disturbing. Something like Unreal Engine would’ve been great for them but I think it’s too late now and the engine they’ve spent the better part of a decade working on is finally having goals they need it to achieve with this new formula of games, the next game should have much more open worlds instead of three, would like to see places with towns and wilderness be integrated slowly, they could take it to different biomes, or even have mega cities to discover, maybe a sky island would be easy to add since endless pits seem to add great tension is sonic platforming, with a focus on more and longer cyberspace levels, which honestly seem like they play amazing from watching gameplay.

[@zenar30]

Kishimoto, Sonic's producer has said what is added in update 3 of Frontiers gives the tone of gameplay for future Sonic games. I like how it is. And it sounds very promising. I think, next Sonic game could become an even better banger if they improve graphics, removing the clipping and remain in their philosophy of this update 3 because it's actually good. Though they need to create a great narrative as well. If all these conditions are fulfilled, it could become a greater game.

[@OMR3333]

Can I say 3 words? I Love You You are one of the very few content creators that I agree with this video, the previous one, heck even the "unfinished magnum opus" video and this video really gives me hope for the future thank you for this video :D Btw.... are you telling me that a global playtest could've won the game of the year award??? lmao

[@corruptedteka]

Not quite GotY no, but it was runner up in the Player's Choice category, which is solely based on highlighting player favorites, and there's a lot of Sonic fans. Too bad there's also a lot of Genshin Impact fans and there was conflict there.

[@OMR3333]

@@corruptedteka Yeah exactly, Frontiers could've won the runner up (which is basically GOTY but for player choice)

[@X3m.Gaming]

if sega can really put out forces in 1 year and frontiers in 2 years i feel like they might actually be the best "rushing the game out as fast as possible" companies ever because these game look like they took at least longer than those times. if all of this is true time really is the only thing that is stopping sega from making something... well i dont know... it could even be better than what everyone expects

[@Venom-Boiii]

I do believe that a combat-focused open zone with no platforming would have been better. It could have had a much better flow to it, and with momentum, the open zones would have been so much fun to traverse, even without platforming. Hopefully we get something like this one day. And if we do get it, they shouldn’t release it on the Switch. I want a true next-gen Sonic game.

[@ZechOfTheWest]

Yeah, it really is a foundation. And i think the next Sonic game will absolutely address the more basic issues people have with Frontiers. I've said this before, but i really do think people will look back at Frontiers in the same way people look back at SA1 far in the future. "Yes, this is where it started"

[@Excelsior1937]

Definitely quite torn over that Iizuka quote explaining the realism. On one hand, I can definitely understand the wisdom of keeping the core AND the newcomers in mind but… I worry that mentality is gonna lead them to betray or lose sight of the series’ identity. Like Metroid and Zelda, two other series I’m really into, also play around with their formula a bunch and push the limits of what they can do, but I feel like all that experimentation is done with a strong understanding of their series’ core identity. And besides, are newcomers to the series REALLY going to be drawn in by games that are in a perpetual identity crisis? I don’t think TRYING to impress people ever really impresses them, it’s one of those things where the more you chase it the more you push it away. I think you just gotta be committed to making good stuff with a strong understanding of what you’re going for and if people are impressed, they’re impressed. You’re not gonna please everyone, and I thought Frontiers marked a willingness to quit people pleasing so much but now I’m not so sure.

[@Handepsilon]

Soooo... Somewhat like what Doom 2016 was to Doom Eternal? Or what KOF XIV was to KOF XV?

[@turvimania]

idk, if this leads to greater games in the future then cool but I’d much much rather just get a game that’s fully realised, polished and just great from the get go. Why should I have to wait for one game to release to eventually get a better game later (which isn’t even a guarantee)? Saw heaps of people even before Frontiers released saying they couldn’t wait to see what the NEXT game would be like.

[@Sone01TheFirst]

I... straight up don't believe you. Some people maybe, but heaps?

[@Paul_Recall]

One of the earlier leaks from January 2021 for the game mentioned a tonne of correct details, and that they fought a gigantic tree boss, yet we've never really seen or heard anything else of this. I don't think you could mistake any of the titans for a tree, so what was it?

[@davity2002]

The weird pillars probably

[@LucasRCD]

Maybe it was one of the guardians that you grind on their rails to defeat them, they're vaguely tree-shaped.

[@ultimatedumbass4640]

​@@LucasRCD From what I remember, the leak mentioned it was a Super Sonic boss fight with Infinite's theme

[@kdr_roxas]

Old comment but from what I've seen digging around on forums, it seems that the titans used to have a more rundown and ancient look to them, being covered in greenery and occasionally rust due to them being unused for so long. If the leaks are to be trusted, then it sounds like foliage may have originally grown around Giganto and covered him in trees and plants in contrast to the sleek and untouched version we got in the final build.

[@Cade_The_Squirrel]

I don't know what the perfect Sonic game is, but I can't help but imagine it's something like Sonic Frontiers.

[@shroomologist]

I find it amazing that Morio needed to be told why people didn't want the same 3 level themes re-sold to them constantly, then went about setting up a "worldwide test" while claiming to listen to feedback, and still got it wrong. That's actually quite impressive.

[@thatitalianlameguy2235]

They were reused for lack of time not because they like them

[@shroomologist]

@@thatitalianlameguy2235 it was a reference to 23:07 Of course there wasn't enough of a budget to knock up a whole game from scratch, that is evident across the whole thing. It's almost as if developing a game with multiple gameplay styles and loading it up with silly side activities is a terrible idea when you haven't got the base gameplay down, as the official games so frequently do.

[@lasercraft32]

This explains why the game was so janky.... I mean, Sonic games are always kinda janky, but this one in particular was VERY jank.

[@Shrock568]

All of this being said, I think it’s only graphically buggy, and I’m hopeful for the future of Sonic games. Sonic Frontiers is one of my favorite games of all time!

[@shinji2898]

If I can at least say something about this: Sega and Sonic Team did something bold. It was definitely stupid and a rash action, but a bold one neither-less. Especially if it means we will get frontiers that is a 10/10, rather than a 7/10.

[@Legoluigi26]

After it was commonly agreed by the community that our highly-requested perfect parry totally soured the third update's ending, I was worried Sega or Sonic Team or whoever would decide that listening to fan feedback was always a bad idea. But if this theory is true, we won't have to worry too much if a couple of our requests backfire in execution.

[@AndrewsWideWorldofGaming]

People have pitched a Parry timing slider which would be great in a future game. I had to lower the difficulty to easy to get through the Boss Rush.

[@Handepsilon]

The perfect parry itself is... well, almost okayish, but the bosses' animation don't exactly help its' case. I mean, not a lot complained as much when you have to Perfect Parry at last boss, with most complaints about that being relegated to the trees blocking your vision

[@AndrewsWideWorldofGaming]

@@Handepsilon Agreed. I just couldn’t get the perfect parry to work on hard. At least in the boss rush. But it was easy when fighting The End Supreme.

[@LucasRCD]

The Titans have messed up hitboxes and the attack animations don't make it clear when you're supposed to perfect parry them, since sometimes the attacks register AFTER their animation would hit you in any other game. A good parrying system requires good animation and matching hitboxes, which is why the Like a Dragon series gets it right and Sonic Frontiers doesn't.

[@thatitalianlameguy2235]

​@@LucasRCDAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU THINK YAKUZA HAS GOOD HITBOXES AND ENEMY DESIGN

[@kaistudios5536]

Ah! _A cultured Klonoa fan, I see!_ Also, _the funny thing about Iizuka saying the realism was to catch more casual fans is,_ One of my friends who doesn't even like Sonic that much said he would've been down to play the game. *However, he didn't due to his beliefs that Sonic works better in stylized environments as opposed to the realistic settings.*

[@diego333jose]

Nice video. A top of all the bosses would be great :D

[@nintony2994]

I really hope the improve the controls for the cyberspace levels if they're going to continue with this gameplay style

[@josepareja7947]

My main problem with the Sonic games and the narrative around them by the community is the whole "it is a small step for the next game". This "next game" thing has been going on since Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, if not since Lost World. After Generations, Sonic Team lost focus on how to make a Sonic game and entered this weird era of experimentation without the passion (compared to the "Dark Era" where ST did experiment wildly but games were full of personality) that now obeys to very barebones understanding of what players want from SEGA's side. I am tired of one full decade of "the next game will use the feedback from this game". When Sonic Boom flopped, everyone said " wait for Forces". When Forces flopped, then it was "wait for Frontiers". And now we gotta wait other 5 years for another baby step? Why can't "the game" they actually try their best on never arrive?

[@pinktrutle1490]

The difference between now and this is that this game is being called the 3rd generation of Sonic. It is literally the gameplay style that is gonna define the next 20 years of Sonic games. Sonic boom was not that neither was Sonic lost world or forces. The only people who said wait for the next game were Sonic fans. When sonic TEAM says a game is a global playtest they really mean it. Also, trust me the next game will be more than just a baby step. All the sonic games before were not steps, frontiers was the one and only one and after that we will be running.

[@TheDynomiteGuy]

2:44 Hey, pup. I just read through the list of games and noticed that Freedom Planet 1 & 2 weren't on the list. Have you've played them before, or did you just didn't like them?

[@ChannelPup]

Truth be told, I haven't played them. I've heard good things though!

[@Starktech98]

It’s fine that there experimenting to see what works and what doesn’t but they seriously need to give their crew more time then rushing

[@kaobunn]

i dont mind if people criticize cuz i have my own criticisms i just wish people that love the game and dont defend it a ton werent put off to the side especially when theyre insulted as well

[@Me22231]

I WONDER IF SONIC FRONTIERS IS GOING TO SEE THE RETURN OF THE FORGOTTEN SONIC VILLAIN NAMED WENDY NAUGUS

[@TheFainter94]

so what this proves to me is that frontiers is really a learning curve to Sonic team. so many stuff is experimental and last minute changes that they could not polish up until release

[@self-absorbed5269]

I just want them to able to tell a story without driving me crazy. Don't make care through context that should be used for stage setting. Sure I would have liked to know some info about the islands , when I was on them. And I think The End would have been better as an ineffable world to defeat.

[@vi6ddarkking]

You mention Unreal Earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sequel to Sonic Frontiers uses Unreal 5.3 or even Unreal 6. Depending on when it comes out. Unreal has Various Technologies such as Nanite that would Resolve the LOD problem. Among with quick and Easy Lighting solutions such as Lumen that greatly cut down on development time.

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

For Frontiers 2 to have a bigger budget, a large group of gamers need to return for Frontiers 2. And most people outside Sonic communities disliked this game and refused to complete it. DLC included. People returning for Frontiers 2 are fans that buy any Sonic game regardless. But thats not enough for a bigger budget game. And Iizuka observes these things

[@lpfan4491]

Frontiers is still one of the most sold 3D Sonic games ever and the first since SA2 to make waves in japan(to the point where people recently created a japanese retranslation mod, despite game modding generally being a no-no over there). If anything, it was Update 3 specifically that completely put the dump on the table. Hardcore audiences can defend it all they want and scream "skill issue" to the heavens, but it is just kinda fact. It p*ssed fans off, made casual audiences not want to play Sonic anymore and left gaps for haters to say "Sonic Frontiers was always bad". We are in the negatives again and it legitimately would have been better PR to just cancel the full update and let the player play as the other characters on the other islands as a bonus for beating the game.

[@soniccitynet]

Awesome video

[@AlexMoore-y4o]

I hope they don't scrap the open-zone idea because it got a 7/10, they could fine tune it to make the best 3-d sonic game ever

[@tomsun0282]

I feel like the feedback from fans is probably what will make them stick with the open zone idea. A lot of it is positive with criticism here and there. This is the game that is supposed to lay the foundation and I can't see them scraping it over 7/10s when they get good feedback from fans and the general public. Also this game won Sonic Team 2 damn awards as well. Imo I can't see the open zone idea going away anytime soon....

[@cristianovogt5586]

They most likely won't since Frontiers literally exceeded Sega's expectations both in sales and notes. They would be stupid to just throw it all away.

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

My feeling is that the next game will have alot more of what people were expecting from Frontiers as now they have the foundation and the assets to make that possible.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

A 7/10 is a good score.

[@ChibiSteak]

28:50 fin.

[@SkydreamPony]

Did Frontiers get overall mixed reviews? I always remember it being praised all over at the time.

[@Sone01TheFirst]

Check out The Sonic Show's "I watched 12 hours of Sonic Frontiers Reviews", which provides an interesting perspective as it showcases the various negative and positive reviews of Frontiers back to back giving a better idea of how various reviewers reacted early on.

[@ChannelPup]

From critics.

[@DragonOfTheNorth7799]

This game has a sad development story from start to end. The split of kronos, Rhea and ouranos issue, the beta stuff, unused ideas, here and there you can find clues while playing the game about how tough it was to make. Glad its a freaking masterpiece now.🎉

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

Gee this sounds exactly like what I've been talking about since day one how about that. I knew right away that their main priority was to see if people would even like this kind of Sonic Game and that's why they did'nt stress too hard on the art style. And yes it was absolutely neccessary as we have about 2+ decades worth of proof that Sonic fans tend to not know what they want out of his games as much as Sega did'nt until recently. Everything about Frontiers felt different like all parties involved really wanted to change things up and get Sonic back on track again as opposed to the rather apatehtic attitude Sega had for the past decade. That's why supporting it is so crucial right now, when someone is willing to make the effort but they still get crapped on anyways it can lead to a relapse and a why bother kind of mindset. Because Frontiers succeeded they feel confident in going in this direction and it's been so long since they've had that. And as a Sonic fan who was so tired of how it was before Frontiers this game is such a breath of fresh air in so many ways, for the first time in a long time I'm excited for the future of the games and to see where this goes. With superstars only soldifiying that for me from how good it looks. Sega CARES again look at how much Sonic Stuff we've gotten in the last two years alone.

[@babyyoshi2904]

8:25 not even gonna lie it woulldnt attracted both and the realistic did not reallly

[@LenamLorbington]

Does anyone have a source for Kishimoto's comment about how people don't like old sonic aesthetics

[@thelastwindwaker7948]

The tragic irony that most non-fans reject the idea of realism in these games, or darker storylines. Heck, these people even complain about him driving a race car.

[@r3ddr01d7]

Update 3 is "high risk high rewards" But Sonic Team "hardwork pay off"

[@dragongodaaron6460]

Aren't you ever going to do top 10 best sonic games?

[@ChannelPup]

Superstars isn't even out yet.

[@7_wd40]

One thing i think ur missing (or maybe im saying this too early) they aren't necessarily releasing a product for validation from us cus they lack confidence in said product, but that SEGA can see that they shouldn't have their foot on Sonic Team's neck so damn much. If Frontiers wasn't made, whatever game that would have taken its place would have been delt a bad hand by Sega

[@7_wd40]

@@TheSultan1470 considering the game lacks polish, I disagree.

[@sonicthescrewdriver]

26:51 *ahem* Sonic Lost World *ahem

[@AllOfTheAbove777]

I'm not really surprised since they've been rushing Sonic games ever since the first game

[@turbog2217]

Pup will you do a video on Mario wonder ?

[@elliotsturtplus340]

3:07 ehh maybe not always but Mostly yeah

[@kami110cool]

I got a sonic superstars ad anyone else? 👇

[@michawhite7613]

What's disappointing for me is that there are a lot of good ideas in Sonic Frontiers that can't be used in a more polished game anymore. It makes me wonder what we're missing out on because of this strategy.

[@AAhmou]

Are there? Besides the Titan combat which would need to be revised or extremely limited in future games, what concepts cannot be reproduced for a future game ?

[@LoliconSamalik]

@@AAhmou Titan fights absolutely can be reproduced in spirit. Just one glance at Platinum Games' portfolio can bring some references to mind.

[@ender5528]

I thought it was funny they spent around a year on the scripted boss fights then when game drops the boss fights were one and done near god mode events...pure sega logic there. Also loved how did not track player records in cyber stages and it took an update for arcade mode for records on the front end...lol speed running Sonic stages sega overlooked that basic bread and butter somehow. Then yeah the epic open world thats prime gameplay loop was unlocking map to unlock more map, oh yeah and jump rope. Ive got 200+ hours in the game so not just trash talking, lots of design lulz exists regardless of my random enjoyment...random enjoyment being mag dashing cyber stages :P

[@hoonencode2430]

Ready for the comments to be "failing for a decade" or "this franchise is doomed" or "this franchise is over" I understand if you don't like frontiers the game has its issues but the next sonic game won't come out until late 2025 due to the increased budget and team members it's still a pretty long time so y'all gonna have to cope.

[@Sone01TheFirst]

I haven't seen anyone say anything like that, closest has been about how we shouldn't have to wait for the next game to get proper good but it should've happened with what we got. The same applies to games before Frontiers as well.

[@hoonencode2430]

@@Sone01TheFirst Frontiers is all we have right now so cope.

[@Sone01TheFirst]

@@hoonencode2430 No, Superstars is out in -less then a month.- Edit: its out in less then a week.

[@Naruku2121]

Frontiers may been rough, but I think that for once they decided to be totally transparent and was like "Alright, alright what exactly do YOU want?" And they listened. People screamed up and down for momentum, boom jump decelration so now jumping doesn't kill your speed (and is configurable for those that don't care.). You wanted the Spindash? You get the spindash in all it's OP glory, traversal now has so many more options and may even make Cyper Space a bit less of a slog. More playable characters? you get that and distinct character skill trees to boot. Or maybe some one says Frontiers Puzzles and challenges are too easy, the Final Horizons becomes a Sonic Dark Souls gauntlet. But the real kicker is they did all this content for free. They could of waited for the next game, but they didn't. It shows if nothing else Sonic Team really wants a Sonic Game that not only they can be proud of but even the fanbase could be as well.

[@xSoporific1]

Wow

[@Evixyn]

This next title from sega sonic team better be at most bare minimum an eight at of ten with all this free data collected as with the updated frontiers is barely a seven or at most a seven point five.

[@Zeldafan-zy1pb]

On the topic of budget, Frontiers 2 wont have a bigger budget. If even Frontiers 2 occurs. Keep in mind that the initial objective of Frontiers was to bring new fans to Sonic. Iizuka told Game Informer they want the wider audience to join Sonic fans, not the niche hardcore fans online. In my observation, anyone left willing to defend or discuss Sonic Frontiers are hardcore cult Sonic fans. The same goes for Sonic Frontiers DLC. Only the most hardcore extreme Sonic fanboys stomach it. Download count was low. The casual/mainstream audience Iizuka wants do not like Frontiers. Sonic Team made an excellent strategic move by releasing Sonic Frontiers next to the Sonic movie for initial sales. But people without pre-existing Sonic fanboy biased disliked the game. They are not coming back for Frontiers 2

[@Sone01TheFirst]

Sources for the uneducated.

[@Me22231]

I wonder if sonic frontiers is going To see the return Of the forgotten Villain named Wendy naugus Who probably Brought those Titans sonic Fought in sonic Frontiers to sonic's World and sage Wasn't the daughter Of eggman because eggman created sage and eggman us not superior to Anyone like imperator ix is and the onky person who created sage Is non other than wendy naugus herself after weny naugus was beaten by tails and wanted to get revenge on tails by bringing the titans to sonic's world am i right

[@cybersonic8472]

I really do hope the next game is better. I honestly hated this game, it doesn't feel like a sonic game to me it feels like a poorly made open world quest game and I don't even like the good open world quest games. This game made me actually go back and give Forces another shot and appreciate it more. And talking to my none sonic fan friends who are into open world games they see this as laughably bad so I don't think this will bring that new audience in because they have other games that do open world better. If they had focused on colorful worlds and momentum then even with some jank this would be offering something new to open world fans & that more than anything would improve Sonic's image in gaming

[@alexandrpeterberg390]

Believe it or not, Spark the Electric Jester 2 was an experiment for LakeFaperd before he made the real deal in the form of Spark the Electric Jester 3. And boy Spark 3 was a such good game. Another interesting fact is that Spark the Electric Jester 3 also got the attention of Morio Kishimoto. I hope Morio Kishimoto will also take a look at Freedom Planet 2. Having foundation and talent is one thing but it may not mean much if SEGA keeps the tradition of rushing the Sonic games while the Sonic Team keeps the tradition of rough development cycles for Sonic games.

[@comedicidiot]

Sonic Frontiers 2 could very well be the best Sonic game ever

[@existential_narwal9257]

not very surprising by looking at the final product