The Creators of BanBan are Babies

they said dumb stuff and I'm not having it lol
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[@AstralSpiffExtras]

They blocked me on twitter. At this point, my reply has ratio'd them by like 5x

[@xaurorathesilly]

W

[@arturplayz4505]

W

[@JVnite_Jury]

W

[@chucklebucket9807]

that is fucking gold

[@devinis99]

W Bro ratio’d a snowflake developer lmao

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Yknow what’s also scummy? Dividing your game’s “chapters” into “sequels” so people have to pay for each one.

[@scottish_lunatic]

like how ea makes a crappy fifa game every year instead of just making one and updating it every once in a while

[@esdrey_2265]

And they have internet models with lots of vertices

[@ForgedinPrint]

If done correctly that isn't actually that bad, especially if the first chapter/sequel is free. Reason I state this is the first chapter can be a demo, and if the later chapters come out totaling what a normal game would pay for (so let's say each chapter was 5 bucks and there are 6 parts, then coming out to 30 really isn't that bad if the game as a whole is worth that) then it could be a way to divide up the cost. Make it so it's not one giant purchase of 30 dollars but rather a series of small 5 dollars. How it's done however is just a straight cash grab most of the time, especially with something like garten of banban.

[@RudoMike21]

@potatoboi420 Yes like those for example and I would something like BattleField from 2010 to 2018 but they’re different gameplay be the same but if it’s Cops and robbers and WW1 and humor in Bad Company yeah.

[@quint2568]

That's not scummy. Y'all have weird perceptions.

[@MrFleshyMan]

Imagine getting angry that someone refunded your 30 minute tech demo 💀

[@rengoku_speedrunner]

Yep

[@thatonedoublecommunityguy9929]

ikr? like i dont see the fact that it’s just a random 3d indie horror game on the internent

[@elsuertes1748]

calling it a tech demo is an insult to tech demos

[@glitchydorime]

@@elsuertes1748 yeah u are right It's more of a unity sample

[@Skarap]

⁠@@glitchydorimethats a huge offense to unity samples

[@liveira5400]

Its really rare to someone like Spiff being genuinely mad, when seeing the nicest guy being pissed off on someone is when something is really wrong there

[@yusufthecatwithagun]

the devil shivers when the nice guy gets mad

[@JustAnAverageGuy5731]

@@TurnipTheBee As a Canadian, nothing pisses me off more than people who stereotype us. Most of us don't even like maple syrup, it's messy, sticky, etc...

[@Ex0dus24]

@@JustAnAverageGuy5731you're joking right? I'm canadian and all my friends, family, and everyone else i know who lives in this country loves maple syrup.

[@INFINITEYEETUS]

@@JustAnAverageGuy5731 i fucking love maple syrup

[@therandomartist3201]

Fear the man who smiles all the time, for when he has reason to frown, you will know exactly why.

[@anythingallowed792]

I honestly thought Garden of Banban was satire on how 'horror' games are made today. Very shocking to me that this is actually serious.

[@flow185]

Same, i didnt beleive the first chamter was even real to begin with

[@flandrescarlet506]

Honestly if the Banban team just played into the community memes and turned the game into a genuine parody of current indie horror I think people would be more on board with them. Instead they're making a mockery of themselves by being completely serious about the game

[@flow185]

@@flandrescarlet506 if it wasnt 6$ and just an ironic joke. Would have been kinda great.

[@graphite7898]

@@flow185 Honestly if it was one big shitpost and 6 bucks they would honestly make money, I'd buy it if it was funny enough

[@Maddiedoggie]

@@flandrescarlet506 If they just did the Pizza Tower Don't Make a Sound level in their approach and make it a silly parody of mascot horror that still somehow is unnerving at the same time, people would actually pay at least $10.

[@CMan185]

the scariest thing about this game is the characters’ polygon counts

[@DragonitaPurple]

I can't find anywhere where to check it and now i want to see just how bad it is

[@Fatigue023]

@@DragonitaPurple Want me to give you a link to the tweet?

[@DragonitaPurple]

@@Fatigue023 just found it finally and Dear GOD it's bad

[@plantolem6753]

more than one hundred thousand polygon for the bowtie of a mid character is not ok

[@tezereth]

THE BILLION POLYGON SCREW

[@Chonkems]

Fun fact: discouraging refunds is actually against Steam's subscriber policy.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

Good for Steam

[@Wind_Blaze]

Has anyone ever used this against the game?

[@catfluff85]

​@@Wind_BlazeNot sure, but they should 🙄

[@itsdramallama_]

The funny thing is, criticism is a common thing for video games. How did everyone think Scott Cawthon make fnaf and it became one of the most popular horror games? Because of criticism. He took the criticism people said about Chipper and Sons lumber co. and made fnaf. The difference with that and the euphoric brothers is they acted like 3 year olds when garten of banban got criticism and acted like people threw them under the bus.

[@Ender41948]

Scott is the textbook example of how you bounce back from criticism. Take what people said and either improve what you had, or in his case, make what they said work for YOU.

[@DesignFrameCaseStudies]

Exactly! The BanBan games appear as cash grabs because they're made with such low effort and they don't seem to care enough to improve.

[@ethanlivemere1162]

Never forget how Scott refunded an ENTIRE GAME to EVERYONE WHO BOUGHT IT just because he wasn't happy with how people reacted to it and thought they deserved better

[@Ender41948]

@@ethanlivemere1162 Legit treasure to the world.

[@theauditor322]

Ngl that is an actual legit comparisson instead of seeing this guy comparing being a youtuber to being a videogame developer...

[@NixityNullt]

I used to think banban was clever satire of the childhood-turned-horror genre, but now i realize that interpretation is too intelligent for these internet clowns

[@RubykonCubes3668]

Yeah, that took a turn a quickly 😂

[@hatt3rene]

I feel like even if we had a "childhood-turned-horror" parody KZbin kids content farms like gametoons and other nonsense would milk it completely bone dry and ruin it completely

[@Stinker0610]

@@hatt3rene that was literally what happened to baldi’s basics

[@namelastname6884]

@@Stinker0610 the new baldis basics isnt overused in yt kids now so thats a w for the dev, it also has banger ost's

[@thatanimegirlwiththecape4807]

​@@namelastname6884 yeah its been a while since ive seen baldi or bendy. Especially after the release or batdr. Batdr basically gave a huge middle finger to the channels that thought bendy was for kids

[@sarcasmguy6482]

I remember something like this happening with another game called “Before Your Eyes.” The game was $10 and took maybe 1 hour to complete. The difference between BanBan 2 and BYE is that BYE is a tearjerking beautifully written experience and the devs seemed to really care about telling a deeply emotional story about how life goes by quickly. BanBan is most definitely a cheap cash grab and a way to get into a popular (but overused) genre. BYE didn’t launch with a merch page nor any intention for a sequel, BanBan did.

[@enashimo]

They really launched with a merch page?

[@aal834]

​@@enashimo they even had it in the starting menu 😂

[@enashimo]

@@aal834 Even Poppy Playtime didn't do that at all, jeez

[@flamestormthecat2833]

@@enashimo no, Poppy playtime definitly had a merch page linked in their starting menu and even sold overpriced stuff on it and even sold NFT's. I'm not to sure if they literally launched with the merch store linked in the starting menu, or if it only goit added after some update, but it was there before chapter 2 came out.

[@yeet1066]

​@@enashimo I think poppy did do that, but at least there's an arg behind the game so it's much more effort than this shit

[@PelemusMcSoy]

You'd think that mass refunds would be a wake up call to the developers about needing to improve their product.

[@SmileOlderBro_GodsBrother]

But no. They stole a personality trait from Garfield and fucked it up.

[@-kanju-]

@@SmileOlderBro_GodsBrotherNever compare hot shit to our saint Garfield again 😡😡

[@finian2]

It's kind of a shame, the thing that got me interested in the first one was how they coded the birb, and how it wasn't just a "charge at you and murder you" kinda thing, but a "curious predator sizing up its prey before pouncing" thing, which was super cool to watch. Shame they goofed it.

[@can0cringe]

The worst part about this is that I also liked that part- it was a breath of fresh air for chasing mechanics or whatever the word is. And _then_ I heard that it wasn’t even intentional. ☹️

[@bagredecartola1289]

Bird up

[@accountlol7409]

@@can0cringe wait what?that’s so funny it’s almost like what happened to hello neighbor…

[@Pizzaboi-py2gs]

What's a birb?

[@accountlol7409]

@@Pizzaboi-py2gs just a funny way of spelling bird

[@ultgamercw6759]

The fact they also blocked Uhyea is also crazy when you consider he basically made there entire game popular with the "Bird Up" meme. Barely anyone would talk about this game if it weren't for them making meme's of it.

[@CassiusStelar]

"Mhm, yes, I'm going to throw a pissy fit against someone who literally brought me to where I am today, that certainly won't backfire" --Euphoric Brothers, Retro Studios, and Elon Musk all in this same god damn month (less so Retro, they just didnt credit their employees 😬)

[@louzo5175]

aww thats very bad decision of em

[@Its-pronounced-ay-zaer-e]

@@louzo5175 what did you expect from them

[@Anonymous-ow9kr]

I'm gonna have to say the meme didn't create that big of a popularity wave. I've heard of the game since day 1, watched multiple youtubers talk about it, and not once heard about the "Bird Up" meme during this time.

[@dougdougw]

They also blocked Spiff after he ratioed them

[@TheMilitantHorse]

Considering their game takes place in a kindergarten, makes sense they'd act like children.

[@ona512]

lmao getem

[@Greenisanidiot]

It's set in a kindergarten because the audience is In kindergarten

[@llednyl660]

He gottem bois. He got gottem

[@Gustoberg]

I didn't know mr. fire came so early to burn the shit out of them

[@gaminggranny1541]

i was thinking of something else that relates to them and children 🤨time to get to sleuthing

[@hungryporpoise5940]

As a game dev, huge respect to the devs of Garten of Banban for finishing a game and publishing it as indie devs, but jesus christ it did not deserve to go this big.

[@XJ-0641]

"Finishing" is a strong word for Banban

[@thehappiestchaos]

@@XJ-0641Lmaooo 😂

[@Its_Asteria]

I give them that as well but the way they handled things, and themselves, and the game as a whole, especially on social media, was not the greatest and it dug their grave even deeper. that kind of behavior is what made people dislike them and the game even more

[@ThatFoxxoLeo]

The lack of optimisation alone is disappointing, let alone the actual content of the game. The models have so many excessive polygons and the texture mapping is so unorganised and a pain to look at, even as someone who's not super in the know about game development.

[@quint2568]

Bruh that's not impressive. The amount of work is staggeringly little when you account for stock assets and how the engine already has everything done.

[@Just_Poncho]

Game Developer here, criticism is extremely important to most of us, game developers go as far as to pay for it via play testing sometimes and it a-shames me that a developer behind such a popular (flawed) game, would act this way.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

Flawed is really putting it politely, innit? 😂😂😂

[@Lechgang]

I'm not forgiving the internet for letting this game blow up.

[@Zero001LP]

The bigger the blow the higher the fall.

[@cambell7469]

Same, I see that a lot of people hate it I havent seen the game itself, but from what I say, its horrible and is another poppy playtime rip off

[@khaosB47]

Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue

[@genericname2747]

It's our fault this exists

[@Cupheadthathasaholeinhisbrain]

8 year olds getting their colorful tablets and playing googop af banban

[@helldivenews]

You can tell spiff is trying hard to hide his pure anger. It's okay Spiff, I get it.

[@louzo5175]

spiff handled it so good.

[@YaBoiiMikey]

bro is SEETHING

[@pepsteprep]

He is Canadian, he did show all his anger.

[@mr.meta1712]

@@pepsteprep lol

[@JunkstHat3605]

@@pepsteprep I am a Canadian too

[@juiciestlemonadeofyoutube]

• Makes poppy playtime ripoff • Angry when criticism is given • Angry when people use a feature of the site THEY CHOSE TO HOST THE GAME ON to their advantage • Blocks every single Portuguese player from playing the game because of constructive criticism given by one youtuber • Makes edgy ass game about a school shooting • “Stop hating on us its giving us mental trauma!!11!1”

[@soaringspirits2267]

Wait wait wait. School violence WHAT????? THEY DID THAT!???????? Context please? (I stopped watching ppl play, after the second chapter, and a clip of dakblake voicing a character.)

[@Firestar19]

Spiff, the fact that you recommended an ad blocker is the reason why you're now my favorite KZbinr.

[@karak962]

I appreciate that you're both kind to new devs AND call out scummy devs

[@Memech1]

Don't forget he tells us to use ad blockers and even tells us the name of a good one

[@elliot_rat]

the chadded robinhood spiff

[@lazyvoid7107]

Sure like attacking Steel wool

[@Memech1]

@@lazyvoid7107 ?

[@user-fl3oc1bw3u]

@@lazyvoid7107yes, and still playing his games so…

[@Luigifan4ever11]

Absolutely BASED Spigg advocating for adblock. Bless you, man.

[@HeWhoLaugths]

That's made me think though, cause I always thought youtubers got paid for views. The only reason I use adblock is because having ads play all the time is insufferable. It sucks that there's no way to self moderate how many ads can be played and for who, cause I'd watch the occasional advertisement if it meant Spiff got paid. It's like there's no middle ground and I can't afford to pay for subscriptions for everyone I watch.

[@Schnort]

​@@HeWhoLaugths honestly, that's why you _should_ use an adblocker and opt to donate directly to youtubers and streamers if possible. That way KZbin/twitch don't steal half the possible profits.

[@higueraft571]

@@Schnort Exactly

[@ona512]

@@HeWhoLaugths ads bring the most revenue, but subscriber count, likes and views do add in to more profitable ads by the algorithm's POV

[@MapleMan1984]

@@HeWhoLaugths Most adblockers let you whitelist specific youtube channels. Edit: (You combine this with the scheduled on/off time to decrease amount.)

[@purplehaze2358]

Hey, at least they're not bullying a literal child for not working with them like Mob Entertainment did.

[@bababooey5402]

_OOF,_ did they actually do that?! Holy fucking shit, MOB.

[@urgae9125]

@@bababooey5402the harassment actually got so bad he had to be checked into s*icide watch. They literally had a kid wanting to take his own life.

[@sothisishowusernameswork.2043]

@@bababooey5402 Yes, ekrcoaster, he was inspired by them and also wanted to make fnaf minecraft music videos, he's doing good but I think he's away from fnaf.

[@bababooey5402]

I already knew that MOB, before Poppy Playtime, had a history of basically bullying people with their "Animation Sins" (i think it was worse than CinemaSins in that MOB was far more rude and didn't even try to say it's satire; feel free to correct me), but _this_ is a new low. What the fuck, guys.

[@sothisishowusernameswork.2043]

@@bababooey5402 I knew about enchanted mob before poppy playtime aswell, when they made quality videos, the minecraft fnaf ones. Love fnaf or hate it, those videos were better than what they are making now.

[@tehcodekid8421]

"For babies, by babies" should be their new slogan

[@weenies]

The scariest thing about them isn't their game, it's that they genuinely are getting frustrated at ppl for wanting their money back. If ppl are wanting refunds of *_only_* six dollars, meaning they don't think it's worth a Party Size Hot Cheeto bag, maybe the refund isn't the problem here. Lil side note: You can refund gifts!

[@levievil9220]

Now personally I would’ve said my favorite breakfast burritos but those work to also thx for telling me that

[@faimynth6030]

Eyy team plasma PFP ​@@levievil9220

[@GamingSpider115]

U can refund gifts?!?

[@sanskarthepro]

Don't forget everyone lives in America in some countries where 6$ are a very high value this refund is a thing

[@pyshrub]

​@GamingSpider115 yeah, the receiver has to choose to refund it, then the sender can finish the refund transaction

[@stopsignman9891]

I think that the Euphoric Brothers actually tried to make their game last two hours to avoid this very thing. There's lots of long, empty hallways, tedious minigames, and parkour (which is really terrible to play because of the movement). Other people have also pointed this out and I think it's the unfortunate truth. I agree in your statement that they should work on chapter three more, and maybe (actually) put passion into it, unlike Chapter Two (I mean listen to BanBan, who is voiced by one of the brothers). Also, I hope they learn how to model correctly and actually model instead of using free/paid models (also monster models are horribly unoptimized, BanBan's model has like 15x more polygons then the fucking Ink Demon form BATDR). Edit: Are you using ignore mouse while running for livesplit?

[@IKEACherryChair]

You just don't get it man, you NEED every detail for the PERFECT 👏BANBAN 👏 EXPERIENCE 👏 every detail of the flat, single-colour-textured models With veins sometimes

[@AutumnalAuroraLIVE]

from what i saw on Twitter; the model of the remote that you have most of the game, has more polygons than the ENTIRETY of mario 64. unoptimized is an understatement...

[@Bugermanchi]

The controversy around this game is more interesting than the game tbh

[@malmart0]

​@@AutumnalAuroraLIVEnah it probably has double the polygons of mario odyssey

[@insencel]

He has live split on a different screen and has the global hotkeys setting active (which makes it to you can press a hotkey no matter what window's focused)

[@orange_turtle3412]

If this was just supposed to exist as mindless dumb fun while being a satirical representation of the state of modern indie horror, id respect it. But the fact that they expect us to take this shit seriously like we do with fnaf is absolutely hilarious.

[@rengoku_speedrunner]

All the 12 year old say its the new fnaf 💀

[@orange_turtle3412]

@@rengoku_speedrunner Its definitely trying to be. But its not and never will be. The only reason its so popular with the mainstream indie horror creators is because its a “so bad its good” kinda deal. Not because its a genuinely good experience like fnaf.

[@killergoose3436]

​@@orange_turtle3412and it just throws new shit in to the game like oh yeah these characters have been here for awhile where as fnaf you had the characters introduced within the first few mins and it wasn't like there was new animatronics coming after you the longer the nights went on

[@dominicdeluca7113]

They took the "make chapter 3 more than two hours" advice very literally by filling it with long sequences and unfair mechanics that are hard to do and take forever to redo if you mess up once

[@Diamond_Doodles]

100% agreed. the first game had some actually funny points and because it was free it was fine. but making you pay for a game that genuinely sucks and then crying about it because people wanted their own money back is just, as they say, "Scummy." the game is no longer funny to play and is now just a scam for little kids who are looking for a "scary" game to play that they can easily finish. which wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't made with so little effort. I remember being surprised in the first game that they actually took the time to make two models for characters since everything else is bought pre-made assets. it's just a cash grab, and those are never fun. (also the new pfp is sick!)

[@tylern6420]

now why didnt they just make an actual game

[@mapleboo]

@@tylern6420 probably because they just don't know how/don't want to spend the time. It's obvious that this whole thing is just a cashgrab. first making a free meme game, then make a 6$ game and capitalize on all the stupid kids who just want to play the funny meme game all their favorite youtubers have played.

[@shacharlem4424]

I mean... Kids horror is also marketable and can be the game's demographic. In the end, it's all about business, and kids are the most negotiable.

[@randomcommenter8274]

​@@shacharlem4424 it's all for those $70 plushies made in a sweatshop.

[@shacharlem4424]

Exactly@@randomcommenter8274. Business.

[@niftyrobo]

People also need to keep in mind that Banban 2 was specifically designed to be padded out and waste as much of the player's time as possible, and ironically the Euphoric Brothers were too incompetent to even make that scheme work out

[@BIoxyBird]

So first the game was too short for you guys, now it’s too long? Make up your damn minds.

[@gamermike111]

​@@BIoxyBird you'll have more luck being a troll bait on a recent video

[@sneakysileny]

​@@BIoxyBird No, it's the fact they INTENTIONALLY made Banban 2 long so people wouldn't be ABLE to refund it since they would be playing it over 2 hours. And the game wasn't long because it had content, it was long cause it played like the story was dragging it's fat ass on the ground

[@BIoxyBird]

@@sneakysileny help I couldn’t help but hysterically laugh my ass off at the end of your comment but anyways that makes some sense, but really would you want people playing your game that you spent your time on then refunding when the game was over, I’d be upset as well. But I still see your point.

[@BIoxyBird]

@@gamermike111 tf do you even mean

[@rafus431]

Me when my 5 minute unity asset flip gets criticized and mocked online:

[@DemonBoy4545]

Fun fact: they made chapter 3 have a super long and boring minigame that takes so long to do, and the worst thing about that is they make you do that minigame TWICE

[@Zaroni_]

Love the new Mad Spigg. He be truely angy.

[@shockdoggo6889]

Watching spiff go full gloves off while still maintaining his normal speaking voice is such a cathartic feeling

[@philliplemchak2709]

Agreed

[@mynameischris378]

Not a shock that a game that looks like it was designed to pander to infants is developed by adults who ACT like infants.

[@ijelan]

yes, insult garten of ban ban and infants will fill up your comments

[@alfredfind1219]

The thing they said that ticked me off was that the harassment they received was a problem with the indie dev business as a whole. Don't get me wrong, harassment is bad, but they to blamed it on the entire business rather than their incompetence as game developers and their way of dealing with criticism, which made me sympathise way less with them.

[@Axe-wieldingFox]

0:49 That was really mature and elegant, plus very selfless and unnecessary of you. Huge respect man!

[@derram0k]

Also, Steam does have some protections for the devs. You can't repeatedly refund games, they will start denying refunds if they see a pattern.

[@RedNayl]

Ok but like that's literally nothing. The only purpose of a crappy protection like that is to make people like you think that steam at least has some protection for the devs, even though steam doesn't. Don't get me wrong, Garten of Banban is a crappy game, and the devs shouldn't be targeting people on twitter, but the devs are not wrong in thinking they should get paid for the people who beat it. You get what you paid for, I don't care if it's bad, you knew what you were buying, and you experienced the whole thing. You don't get to refund a real product if you already opened the box, and for good reason.

[@tezereth]

A lot of peoples probably bought the game not necessarily knowing how bad or short it would be, and they shouldn’t be penalized for finishing it if it was painfully short and bad. If you buy something in real life, and it’s actually something extremely crappy and fragile, you would want a refund, because that money you paid is gone.

[@Dr.Oofers]

@@RedNayl If I can beat a horrible game in under 2 hours, and didn’t enjoy any bit of it (not even a “so bad it’s good” kind of game) then I am entitled to a refund. This isn’t a physical product, it’s digital. If someone enjoyed their time, they won’t refund the game, thus supporting the devs; if they didn’t, they are fully entitled to refund the game, regardless of whether they beat it or not.

[@PoiyoLmao]

​@@RedNayl At the same time, the game has next to nothing to justify the price of the game. I hate crapping on games, especially on indies, but the game reeks of a lack of quality. Unoptimized models, monotonous gameplay loops, empty hallways (which I believe are meant to drive on hours to prevent you from refunding), among other things shows the game isn't deserving of it's price, and that the devs don't have room to complain, especially seeing as how the game is heavily monetized anyway.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

@@tezereth How did a lot of those people find the game? With how popular it got in discussions and little to no advertising it was almost entirely KZbinrs in other words people who knew? If you buy the vase knowing it is fragile to break it... then you shouldn't get a refund it did what you wanted.

[@sussybaka417]

i love how spiff just casualy tells you the best adblocker for youtube because he cares more about you than the money. Absolute chad move.

[@WiseArkAngel]

I work at a grocery store, and in my 2 1/2 years of experience, yelling at your customers is a good way to either lose them, or get fired. These jackasses should take a page from the book of retail.

[@solgaleo3533]

I got suspended for 12 hours for telling them “I hope you get diarrhea”

[@gneu1527]

LOL

[@rev5943]

nnahhh diarrhea is no joke, im not suprised that they suspended you

[@llewelynshingler2173]

That was a bit much

[@DoubleRainbows667]

Lmao whatt

[@RandomStuffGaming]

As one of the other “random people” listed in that tweet (not trying to sound mad, i giggled when you said it lol) thank you for actually saying something and using the platform you have to deplatform these people who shouldn’t have a platform since they plan to use it the way they do.

[@ona512]

i feel sorry you were put on blast for being a normal consumer who has rights to not be scammed. I wonder if you got any further harassment since the tweet?

[@RandomStuffGaming]

@@ona512 well i’ve made a video covering it all and the most i’ve received is upset 7 year olds so there’s not much harm there

[@mikadosannoji553]

@@RandomStuffGaming seems like a medal of honour

[@ImaPizzaK]

random indeed

[@valiantmouse8365]

You used someone else's work for Your own profit and are too greedy to pay 6 dollar entry fee and somehow you are the good guy here? Yes the game is bad and that's why you played it. That's why people watch Your video. Notoriety of their game made You money so is that evil for them to want to get some cut out of it. You are not a "customer" in this situation. You would not buy this game if You weren't making content out of it. What else is at stake here other than Your finance here as a business. It's ridiculous that nobody can even question the gamedev - streamer/youtuber relationship without being labeled as a villain.

[@not-sodeadinside7237]

they seem to be under the impression that it's the player's job to validate their efforts when it's really their job to validate the player's purchase

[@atlas_19]

It's a really mature and humble behaviour that Spiff understands and allows if people should use something like an AdBlock and even makes a recommendation, a good one at that.

[@AlexohiREAL]

While it would be understandable if people were genuinely spewing vitriol or sending targeted harassment, people are entitled to voice their dislike and write criticism on *a monetized game*. I would also probably side with the Euphoric Brothers if their game was free - would I like it? No, but there's a difference between sharing something you made for free and monetizing it (including with MERCH aimed at KIDS!) In conclusion, BanBan L

[@flow185]

LanLan

[@sentinel-zx7mj]

​@@flow185 strangely enough there is a company that makes rubik's cube like puzzles thats named like that.

[@shadowslayer205]

The Euphoric brothers claimed they were recieving targeted harassment and death threats among other things, but showed either minimal or no conclusive evidence of each accusation. All they showed was screenshots containing a small handful of negative comments and steam reviews, [hardly the 'everyone's out to get us' scenario they were describing] and a screenshot of an alleged text message history with someone harassing them. [SMS conversation screenshots are trivial to fake.]

[@SpringyGirl69]

Uh, what? No, harassment is not justifiable

[@minusone7529]

@@SpringyGirl69 how is refunding a bad product and genuine criticism harassment?

[@kingalex105x7]

dont worry they'll just add 2hrs of unskippable cutscenes to solve the problem! good vid btw

[@deen7530]

Garten of Banban 4: Guns of the Patriots

[@aquanas]

@@deen7530 💀

[@cumcer6140]

​@@deen7530BEHOLD! The scams of the patriots!

[@themanok178]

@@deen7530 amazing comment

[@elliot_rat]

@@deen7530 😭😭😭😭

[@genericfriend2568]

Holy shit, Spiff's anger here has Benson levels, you can hear the restraint in Spiff's voice.

[@dazzle2008]

Fun fact: the GOBB remote has more ploys than the entirety of sm64

[@werewolfpoison]

People can refund any game they want. If you happen to make a bad game or just a game they don't like, they can refund it. You're gonna get people not liking your game no matter how much effort you put into it. And sometimes people are gonna use your game to make content, and sometimes people are gonna make fun of it. I doubt any creator is attacking them directly or "weaponizing" their audiance to. It just insane omg

[@bigboom2438]

There's a difference between refunding a game that you don't like for valid reasons and refunding it after completion just you can brag about it. It might not be scummy behaviour but it is mean-spirited.

[@werewolfpoison]

@@bigboom2438 Yea, some people are gonna be shits about it. But thats something you have to be prepared for as a creator. Sometimes people are gonna be mean, and its what you do about it thats what counts. Either you ignore it and move on, or read it to see if you can get any critique from it. Harassment is a different story, that is something that shouldn't happen is disgusting. But being just mean because you refunded a game after completing it as a trophy, that's going to happen. Does it suck? Yes. Is it shitty? Absolutely. But its whats going to happen, especially if you get popular. Also there is a type of speedrun at the moment where people try to beat games in under 2 hours then refund it. Sometimes its mean spirited, and other times purely for fun! But everyone has the right to refund a game no matter their reason.

[@bacon-sandwich4726]

You can't refund a steam game if you have >2hrs playtime the game was made to stall for that 2 hour long period with it's long hallways and abysmal movement speed

[@soursalt698]

​@@bacon-sandwich4726 I can undoubtedly say it is possible to refund a game that's over 2 hours, it just has to be done differently

[@flow185]

@@bigboom2438 its not worrth it , its not worth it thats it.

[@BizarreM]

The way you said "good" after a pause, when talking about people not subscribing to you on twitch, was satisfying and put a wholesome smile on my face. Good for you man, glad that there are still adult people on the web (wouldn't call myself that, though).

[@aznboy2729]

In the words of Sheriff Toadster, "Treat others how you would like to be treated! With respect!" This is something for EVERYONE to take into account.

[@roasdrubale9137]

I guess the developers only took some of your advice at the end there. Chapter 3 IS longer, but only because it has egregious amounts of time-padding. It’s great how you’re forced to sit through slow animation, purposefully time wasting puzzles (not because they’re mentally challenging in any way, they’re simply janky af), and the same boring ass puzzle from the previous games. And yet you can still beat it quick enough to refund it. If they’re shitty money-grabbers to this degree I’ll doubt they’ll change anytime soon.

[@Fr1endly7]

I hate it when people act petty and act like it’s OUR fault that we didn’t like their poorly made product that they chose to present to us, Take it from a victim of that situation long time ago

[@amongussus3399]

Than why do you buy it

[@poolpisser9000]

@@amongussus3399 i buy it because i can refund it

[@HadusMC]

The sad thing is here that Banban 2 showed some, if minimal, potential. I laughed at parts of the game (experienced through Dawko's video so maybe some of it was him) and I especially found the school commentary with the different types of kids humorous. But the fast release of the game just shows what they want. They want to make a quick buck instead of a good game.

[@NtronMain]

Yeah. That motive was creeping in from the start.

[@PeytonianYT]

Most of the laughs are at the game not with it

[@GenderedMess]

Honestly I'm already calling it that the 3rd one ill be out May/June time with their track record so far.

[@Astr000]

Kinda like security breach

[@trianglemoebius]

This is honestly what pisses me off most about the game. Not only was the 'different types of kids' thing funny, but the puzzle with the desks was actually a really good puzzle: it wasn't impossible to figure out, but it DID take a bit of thought, and I've even seen a few streamers have to get hints from Chat. Case-in-point: The worst thing about BBG isn't that it's a bad game, rather that it's a bad game that contains proof the developers COULD make a good game if they were willing to put more effort in.

[@magnus9257]

Solid video on how Garten of Banban 4 now introduces so damn long double backs so that you'll definitely take more than 2 hours to complete it lmao. Nice take spigg

[@lydialuvs]

The fact they're complaining about the ability to refund it is hurting them, because its bringing awareness to the fact it is possible to do, so more people will do it.

[@smartistepicness]

the fact that the creators cry like babies on twitter just because people are refunding their game just proves how much of a cashgrab it is.

[@smartistepicness]

@@3nderfire Yes.

[@PersonianOld]

@@3nderfire Yes.

[@wojerd]

@@3nderfire Yes.

[@naveyhh]

​@@3nderfire yes

[@Mythitie]

@@3nderfire y e s

[@laslowislifeok3429]

listen, you have earned a special type of respect for saying "We dont get money for using adblock, im just greatful people enjoy the content and if you want to use one heres the best adblock ive found" i had to rewatch with Adblock off after that you are a legend for that alone. keep up the amazing work

[@jaydenscarborough6909]

Yes 🏅

[@placeholderdoe]

People who ask for people to turn off Adblock aren’t bad, they just want to get paid for their work. But yes spiff recommending an add block does deserve massive respect

[@soldier7394]

How would it be fair if every single viewer used adblock?

[@youngjellyfish8694]

@@soldier7394 it would be fair, because that means that every single viewer came to the decision that they would like to watch a video without interuptions by ads, or they do not want to support the youtuber financially. Both are valid reasons (although one is more youtuber-critical than the other). That's the thing about free choice. It doesn't matter if it hurts somebody's feelings or if it means that a youtuber won't get paid. When a youtuber puts their content onto the youtube platform, they already have the knowledge that there is a chance they won't get a single cent from the content they make. Whether you put thousands of hours into a video or only a minute, both have the chance to succed or fail. Does one option make it more likely to succeed? Yes, but that likelyhood still isn't 100%. Besides... if a person hates ads enough to put on adblock anyways, there is a pretty big chance that they wouldn't have wanted to buy anything from those advertisements anyways. And if they hate an ad and it stops them from watching a video that they love, and that ad makes them want to stop watching youtube and liking that person's videos, then i'd say that ad is doing more harm than good, and it'd be better if they just blocked it.

[@soldier7394]

@Young Jellyfish you are completely forgetting that youtube is a free service that costs money to run. They have a paid version that completely removes ads. So what is your solution? If you don't want to pay, but you don't want to watch the short interruptions, then what is your Suggestion? And you are also saying that It's my choice to pay or not at a restaurant where I already ate the food.

[@xanderdoss5665]

Granny was more fun and intriguing and spooky than garten was, and it was FREE

[@SrHekkie]

Hey Astral, there's a recent drama about euphoric brothers and some Brazilian content creators, which envolves the same problem you had with them, and a lot more. Can you please make a video about it? We need it to reach to more people so we can expose what they are doing

[@rockstarstatic3232]

Yes

[@deidaraestourado1514]

Yeah, people need to know that

[@nobbymcnobs8721]

The Garten of Banban devs are actually planning to write a book around this whole scenario. They aim to make an autobiography on their recent life about trying to get any hook they possibly can to get people to pay attention to their products with the least effort put in for the maximum possible reward, complaining when people naturally call a bad product bad and give it the exact treatment it deserves for the amount of effort they put into it, then crying about it on twitter despite making obscene amounts of money from their terrible, terrible product. The title for this book of theirs is rumored to be a simple word: "WAAAAAAGH."

[@AverageTerrariaFan]

Garten of Banban could be made better by a toddler that got a hold of Paint3D

[@certifiedgrasstoucher]

nice joke from South Park 🤣

[@nobbymcnobs8721]

@@certifiedgrasstoucher I'm pretty sure I wrote this immediately after watching the episode

[@certifiedgrasstoucher]

@@nobbymcnobs8721 you definitely did. best episode in the new season

[@oilychefofblackpepper]

Oh no They’re orks from 40k (which would explain a lot, lmao)

[@crimsondragon2711]

I'm glad someone else feels the same way. It feels like they ignored any actual criticism,good or bad,and just thought everyone was just being mean for the sake of it lol

[@riffsix]

That's a problem with some people. Any dissention, whether it's actual hate or just constructive criticism, is all discarded as "hate," so banban fans and the devs alike have written off everyone's disinterest and lack of enjoyment as "mindless hate" and have chosen to attack their own consumer base over their feelings getting hurt.

[@PointsofData]

Bird Up was one of those memes that was partly made from...how to put it...an ironic but still kind of real love of what's happening. Not in the way the creators intended, but it was in no way malicious and absolutely helped Ban Ban become "mainstream" (Linkus7 is a big Zelda speedrunner who referenced Bird Up when looking at a seagull in Wind Waker; he doesn't really play any other series, at least on stream, so it was fucking WILD to hear that). They had a huge opportunity to lean into the "silly" horror vibe they ended up with, but nah. They wanted to crush the momentum and nortoriety they HAD gotten.

[@crimsondragon2711]

@@PointsofData and what's worse is that they blocked the person who made the meme too(uhyeah)

[@somo4227]

​@@riffsixthey aparently got "harrasment" so any criticism is now hate for them

[@Globoxian]

I’m glad you feel the same way it’s feels like they ignored any criticism lol btw what game did you play during the video

[@2hufan521]

Getting my support purely for being a straightforward, honest and cool dude.

[@eljaminlatour6633]

"Garten of BanBan" looks cringe. I mean look at the characters, they look simple in design and dumb. The colors are even too bright which makes the characters less scary. Even the drawings in the hallways looks like it's going to make my eyes burn.

[@sirtieman]

and that god awful game mechanics eugh

[@SubjectSigma18]

​@@sirtiemanpress button, drone press button, repeat 10 times

[@mawarumarisa6161]

Thanks for the stupid critiques from you all, now your eyes are burning looking at the 144p graphics on the gob

[@user-mv5zt8qd9l]

​@@SubjectSigma18 You forgot the part where you walk down excessively long, empty hallways for the sole purpose of padding the runtime of the game.

[@papaswanson]

Spiff, This is a pretty good response ngl. Solid and to the point. The ratio point at the end was a little cherry on top of the dunk of a lifetime

[@louzo5175]

and it didnt inspire any hate as well only disapointment towoards banban creators he destroyed them by facs

[@purplecat6578]

I still can’t get over how Spigg changed the name of this channel and added the “triggered” eyes JUST to completely wreck the Euphoric Brothers

[@ona512]

those are the "begone thot" eyes 😭

[@thecontroller9779]

BanBan was a Fucking stupid idea since the start

[@Sebbiiboi]

Made by babies Game about babies Enjoyed by babies Overall a baby game

[@Boxity]

Garten Of Banban Was In Devlopment Since 2014

[@reficul2329]

​@@Boxitygiven how they released 4 of them in less than a year, and given the state of the game, that is a straight up lie.

[@Greenisanidiot]

​@WalterWhite45624 no, this garbage was defo made in 10 minutes

[@Sebbiiboi]

Oh yeah it for sure took a baby time to make the game too

[@mawarumarisa6161]

​@@SebbiiboiOh yeah and your pf looks like baby stuff too

[@Fathom15128]

As I said on Twitter, it honestly feels like they're trying to Guilt Trip people, and all it is doing is making them worse and worse in the public light. They may try to have themselves be viewed in positive light, but all they're doing is digging a hole for themselves that they will be the end of their reputation

[@genericguymandude]

who would have guessed that making a bad game makes people want to refund it?!?!?

[@soldier7394]

But how is it fair if you have plans to refund it at the start, but consume the entire product anyway?

[@umneo]

@@soldier7394 Because the devs clearly don't care enough to make a two hour game so why should you?

[@bagredecartola1289]

​@@soldier7394 jokes on them for not delivering two hours worth of content

[@soldier7394]

@@bagredecartola1289 what's that supposed to mean?

[@bagredecartola1289]

@@soldier7394 that if they wanted to not get refunded they should've delivered at least two hours of worthwhile content, they didn't

[@Liezaac]

"being a game developer can be hard" skibidi toilet tower defense on roblox:

[@soirema]

I love this video, love your take. Love that you are so fun and goofy with your audience, but also takes things seriously (but not too seriously!) when its necessary. Truly amazing video, you put into words what I felt but couldnt quite grasp.

[@dairyblitz]

the ratio proves a point too. more people agree with spiffs big brain then actually caring about these whiney devs

[@Kibishiyt]

Lol imagine making a rip off of a already boring game (Poppy Playtime)

[@louzo5175]

whinney devs should be specificly their nickname

[@Mac1081]

those devs are literally getting harassed, doxxed and death threats.

[@Kibishiyt]

@@Mac1081 ok but, who asked?

[@Mac1081]

@@Kibishiyt I’m literally saying, they actually have a valid point for complaining.

[@delaneyelekes8660]

BanBan has some potential too. The drone, if tweaked and had more elements added into its puzzles, could be pretty creative. Maybe even try linking them more to the story so they're not just pace breakers meant to fill the checkbox of "having gameplay"? (A similar problem Poppy's Playtime has that I'd also like to see improved upon.) The story has potential, but there are some clear weak elements- voice acting, writing sounding awkward, and an over reliance on cheap scares. Yet there are some good ideas, and a few good moments with unique execution. The natural movement of the bird in chapter 1 is interesting, and that massive bloodied-faced monster just looming in the backrooms looking abyss area has genuinely spooked everyone I've seen play the game, so clearly they're capable of doing more than writing "THE SPIDER IS REAL" on a random wall in MS Paint. Just some examples. Yet their response to backlash tells me they don't care what people think of these games. They think this is fine and that everyone who dislikes their games are wrong.

[@nimoph]

My god those guys are babies. Fnaf 1-SL as an example since the prices are similar are each 7-8 bucks but were all polished and playtested also being replayable. This looks like baby‘s first 3d video game with FNAF and Huggy wuggy as inspiration and put on steam. Oh wait…

[@NgaMarsters]

I'm glad these types games/people exist. They make me want to make / be better overall.

[@JJStylies]

What's even funnier is that adblock *isn't* an option necessarily in the terms of youtube while the refund is explicitly in the terms of steam. Technically speaking, Adblock is a sort of consequence of the size and anonymity of the internet allowing options youtube would have never allowed and then forcing them into a situation where if they try to prevent people from using it it would cause too much outrage. Meanwhile whether or not steam regrets it, they specifically chose to add the policy for automatic refunds. It's even less arguable.

[@mr.personalspace7831]

They’re probably going to want to make “chapter three” have a two hour grace period before you can start playing the game once you launch it. However, not only would that likely get them kicked off the Steam platform for trying to work around customer protection rules, I doubt they’re actually competent enough to program that…

[@GlaceonFan1997]

Well, you weren't wrong lmao

[@monke7914]

Alternate title: Spiff being a total giga chad to these absolute children for 6 minutes

[@TheEverythingEnthuiast]

when the nice teacher get's mad

[@infineoinfinite]

I'm still glad that they haven't blocked me in Twitter yet! But if they do... I may start a revolution! Advice to the Euphoric Brothers: When developing a game, next time... make proper concept art, double-check on anything, get a decent team, learn how to make proper models, provide some originality, don't rush it, test at most times, and best of all, keep it faithful to your heart and soul for doing most of the work... many game developers have done this, and those brothers are not showing any of these factors. Oh, I have to say this, but my older cousin used to be one (He managed to pass his own game development work anyway; he still didn't bother continuing it as his life is more important).

[@Arkede]

They aren't doing it for money, apparently, they are doing this as a passion project. They are 2 brothers and like making fun little games for people to like. They aren't making proper games but making passion project's to try and get a start into proper game making. They still have a lot to learn yet, so they might improve later on.

[@Its-pronounced-ay-zaer-e]

@@Arkede if its for passion then why complain about people refunding it

[@Greenisanidiot]

Advice to the sensitive brothers, stop acting like children and blocking everyone who expresses themselves

[@Ulaanbasaar]

@@Arkede they shouldn’t make the game cost money, instead, they should make passes that do cost money

[@PeytonianYT]

​@@Arkede "passion project" yeah I'm pretty sure that's just what they told the public to not seem greedy

[@riskopalfi801]

Breaking news! They have quit Twitter due to "death threats", but development will continue as normal. They also had a breakdown, saying that they are just 2 students with no budget, following their dream. Guys, cool down for a second. That same excuse could be applied to FNAF or Bendy. Those first games in their respective franchises, also had no budget. Yet the effort and creativity is present everywhere! That is not an excuse. Furthermore they are hearting comments on their videos, that are telling them to ignore critisism. And the fact that they included a merch store from the get-go, as well as them using premade assets, should speak volumes. You guys have development experience, so use it!

[@Zero001LP]

Death threats did definitely happen. I can see that... Even the reviews get too mean spirited.

[@WizardCraft-ox4pe]

@@Zero001LP Except from what I've heard from other comments talking about this situation, they haven't actually provided any proof that they actually happened on anything other than steam reviews (Which weren't even threats apparently) and SMS text conversations, which are apparently trivial to forge and fake, as another comment put it. If it wasn't already apparent, them leaving twitter in light of all the criticism as well as them trying to guilt-trip everyone by stating they're "following their dream" with a product that screams anything but, to someone who has been around manipulative people, is textbook manipulation, or more accurately for this scenario; gaslighting. Yes, death threats are a pretty big no-no, but from what I'm hearing from someone who's literally never heard of this situation coming up until now, they're literally just making shit up just to deflect and get people to turn on each-other, all for a game that actively pads the runtime to take more than 2 hours so you can't refund it.

[@Zero001LP]

​​@@WizardCraft-ox4pe Yes, that is in fact what they are doing most likely. Manipulation by crying wolf. Did they get agressive people crossing the line? Yes. But is it as much as they claim? I doubt it, it can't be more than literally anyone else experiences. I quickly completed the game and recorded it with OBS just to be petty because of this.

[@fearbrownizz8610]

My man just said : "cry some more" to a bunch oof babies

[@imGamer230]

Made by babies Enjoyed by babies

[@gametram6139]

I'm glad spiff used that one backrooms game for the background footage (i forgot the name) because usually people call it "a discrace to the backrooms" because it was really bad a few updates ago, but its still being supported to this day, and I would call a decent horror game.

[@PeytonianYT]

Way better then garten of banban

[@ona512]

i used to be one of those madge people who cried about the "purity of the backrooms" but as I watched the updates roll in I stopped whining as much. there's plenty of other backrooms games that are "pure backrooms experiences" and sometimes it's fun to put a bit of motivation into your game. aka, monsters and less backroom-approved liminal spaces. Besides, i love how they made The End, it's so quiet and nice. I guess it _is_ a library after all.

[@oliverthedum2129]

@@ona512 when you think about it, an actual backrooms game that is accurate to the source material would be extremely boring. No threat or gameplay catch, just walking around a bunch of corridors

[@ona512]

@@oliverthedum2129 there is a few games like that tho, and they're awesomee :D

[@sapphirefox7959]

This video just made me realize that I really want a Spigg podcast where he just talks about whatever. Your voice is weirdly calming.

[@SaturnHunter_]

Seeing Astralspiff making a video so clearly frustrated by the situation is like being in a room while your friend’s incredibly patient parents get fed up and start yelling at them. Like I feel like I’ve done something wrong just watching this

[@Stonex180]

5:55 aged like milk

[@scpWyatt]

made by babies, for babies.

[@lance2580]

I guess you can say that the creators of _BanBan_ deserve a… Ban Ban! I'll see myself out.

[@NoobsReviews767]

The game is so poorly optimized that the controller has more polygons than the entirety of Super Mario 64

[@connorfries8297]

Good thumbnail. It does a good job explaining what the video is about with a still image

[@eLiminator506]

It's mind boggling how many people actually support the devs

[@Jay.183]

The only thing I like about the devs is there game tbh

[@eLiminator506]

@@Jay.183 Their game is garbage, especially the characters designs in it

[@PretendYouNeverSeenMe]

@@eLiminator506 opila looks like a poorly drawn roadrunner bird

[@PretendYouNeverSeenMe]

the green guy looks like rainbow friends green

[@rigboy1234]

The funny thing Is that this company made Interesting games before Banban came out

[@jeepmega629]

Let’s not forget that UhYeah is one of the reasons why Garten Of BanBan is popular in the first place.

[@lucasmna]

Bird up!

[@sothisishowusernameswork.2043]

@@lucasmna Insult or agreeing with the commenter?

[@reaperfan377]

No its the fact that any video game in the cute turned into horror genre little kids eat up as long as it looks decent

[@sothisishowusernameswork.2043]

@@reaperfan377 No it doesn't even have to look decent. Well uh atleast in my experiences seeing this people recreate rainbow friends from roblox and of cource poppy playtime characters in another roblox game obby creator. That thing get's massive likes.

[@tacobanana6538]

​@@reaperfan377yeah no. Garden of ban ban was SO close to being a forgotten wasteland of a game that deserved to decay in a brutally torturous manner, but the moment UhYeah started meming that bird he essentially gave the devs a scapegoat. Those child KZbin channels barely touched banban until it started growing after that.

[@somethingfunnyyt]

Spiff plugging the adblocker is such a KZbin move

[@teenspider]

i love how one garten of banban chapter has more polygons than the whole slendrina/granny series

[@Owen01]

Devs like this are the worst, i helped a team of 7 people remaster an indie game two years ago, and was grateful when anybody bought it, even to those that bought it to check out and chose to refund it.

[@goopst3r]

Hearing Spiff speak seriously about something is so jarring since I come from his KZbin videos, but this is so welcome. You made such wonderful points in this. The death threats against the creators are obviously not okay, but the creators have been so opposed to criticism it’s insane.

[@soldier7394]

When did he mention death threats?

[@SmileOlderBro_GodsBrother]

@@soldier7394 He didn't, but he didn't have to. OP just wanted to point out that the Euphoric Bro getting death threats doesn't excuse their immature reaction towards criticism.

[@Therealamstronautproductions]

Learned more about streaming from this then a full length KZbin documentary

[@EpikMemer69]

Me trying to listen to this man roasting 2 brothers and watching him speedrun the backrooms at the same time: