The Cruelest Survival Horror | Rule of Rose (PS2)

[@coolboyyo654]

honestly having the girls flip-flop between orchestrating cruelty and being benign non-threats outside the cutscenes absolutely tracks for kids. Friends one day bullies the next.

[@CabezasDePescado]

Yeah it was clearly a conscious artistic decision and i dont think is a valid criticism. The gameplay is (arguably) not great but otherwise there is nothing much to complain about this game, flaws and all is something special, an unique work of art.

[@mafiousbj]

I would also add that each of the three months in which you can make the missions in any order put Jennifer at odds with one of the high ranking members at a time, likely orchrestated by Wendy. Before that there wasn't any major animosity between them most likely. So during the "game" (Jennifer and the kids use their imagination to transform the orphanage into the airship) the girls are not antagonistic, because they are playing too (and theoretically having fun). That's why they are not threatening. But when Jennifer saw something jarring it took her out of the game for a while, like Amanda beating a doll. She no longer could imagine the airship and play, so she sees the grass field where this was happening. I don't think she is actually remembering trauma, but rather we see the "game" they play through Wendy's eyes. She imagines herself as an adult aristocrat having adventures in an airship, far away from that horrible orphanage. I'm not even sure she made it out alive from the orphanage in the end. And the last cutscene may be a flashback to her first meeting with Brown because of the regrets she feels regarding the promise she wasn't able to keep. Overall really heavy stuff but you just don't see many videogames like this nowdays outside of some indie efforts.

[@just4joebob]

I think the Amanda cutscene on top of the airship pretty much sums that up too. "I know I did something terrible to you, but we're still friends aren't we?"

[@locuas5601]

It can always be that they are also moments that are exagerated by Jennifer's memories. Like the events DID happen and were not good, but Jennifer remembers everyone crueler than they were in those moments.

[@spoonkies]

On where Hoffman and the adults are, there’s an entry in his diary that says "I'm leaving the orphanage. Clara's here to look after things, and the children are quickly growing up. I've done right and fulfilled my duty. Bloody hell! All the trouble started when that wretched child arrived... I've done nothing to deserve this!" So he basically peaced out and let the kids run the orphanage themselves

[@dungeonchill]

I knew there were diaries and notes I missed during my playthroughs. Thanks for that.

[@gebbygebbers]

More like running away from the cops after what he did to poor clara

[@decadentgamer3108]

@@gebbygebbers And what he was going to put Diana through...

[@bluewolf6323]

There may also be a more sickening thing where when Hoffman left, the children just straight up killed the other adults that were there...

[@abra4662]

As a plus I think the "stray dog" killed the other adults on the orphanage because he was a crazy man who wanted his son back, leaving the kids to clean the bodies afterwards and keeping escalating the bully, he still a villain, but that's why the game ends on a bad note after she shot him.

[@LordofBroccoli]

Your channel genuinely has one of the best quality to speed ratios I've ever seen. Great quality at amazing speeds.

[@dungeonchill]

Once I set a schedule for making a video, I try my damndest to stick to it. Might take my time a bit on the next one, but it won’t be too long of a wait.

[@ToTheNines87368]

Yeah! Its genuinely amazing. I know somewhat similar channels (I’m very picky lol), but they usually release every quarter sometimes longer. Some of them I can easily look past, since they spend time sifting through old gaming magazines and interviews and seek out the developers themselves for comment.

[@keip4568]

yay...I'm very late and the 700th like...

[@Scoopsdepoop]

​@@ToTheNines87368good work takes time.

[@teelor221]

​@@dungeonchill You are amazing, thank you so so so much for all your amazing work!!

[@Everdistance]

I think the imps are the male children. You barely ever see the actual boys on the airship. They also are only ever depicted with male voices. Thinking about how children act along gendered lines, especially in a 1930s orphanage, and the scene with the train, it can be assumed the boys stayed out of the girl's drama and the aristocrat stuff but were more than eager to participate in the cruelty. So Jennifer would only remember them as monsters that hurt her randomly, not people she interacted with. As for Gregory's murders at the end, keep in mind that Wendy disguises herself as Joshua a lot. If she went to his home disguised as a boy and told him she was Joshua and that she had been abused at the orphanage and taken from him by them, he probably would have snapped.

[@Bane_Amesta]

Also, boys' bullying is usually just physical violence, kicking and punching. Girls in the other hand are more about destroying reputations and messing with the self esteem. I suffered both as a child. It was easier to fight back to boys, even as a girl, because they just needed a kick inthe legs to stop. Girls made me shy and introverted instead. Thankfully, now I'm too old to give a shit lol

[@zid9611]

Would like to add. Wendy could have seen Gregory as a dirty animal. Like how she felt about brown. Hence as why he act/ treated as a dog.

[@MagdalenaTheremin]

Indeed, I think that you are tottaly right. Children would very likely act like this

[@spas9001]

I assumed Jennifer standing up to the club members actually happened since Wendy being humiliated and losing her position at the top of the hierarchy seemed to be the catalyst for her siccing Gregory loose on the other orphans.

[@keikurono6571]

So why is Jennifer still alive and not Wendy?

[@philiphart4146]

@@keikurono6571 How is she still alive if she submitted? All the other sycophants and even Wendy herself were murdered.

[@KirbyIsCute]

@@keikurono6571 Probably because Gregory recognized Jennifer as Josuha, he did keep her in his basement before, thinking she was his son. When he says, "I'm sorry, Joshua" he's probably talking directly to her. As for why he killed Wendy, when she took off her wig, he realizes that she isn't his son and probably killed her in a fit of rage.

[@andrewh.4866]

@@keikurono6571 Gregory likely realized Wendy lied to him, killed her, felt regretful for having killed all the other kids, and killed himself immediately, sparing Jennifer. This could be due to him seeing her as the "True Joshua", or possibly because Jennifer willingly gave him a quick death with the bullet he always planned to use on himself.

[@videogamerNattie98]

Jennifer finds Brown as a puppy and hangs out with him alot given its the only companion that treats Jennifer like a person. Brown dies from Wendy and her friend's ending the poor doggo out of Jealousy for Jennifer thinking it would make her be with her more. Jennifer stands up in anger towards the aristocrats club which is basically just Wendy and her friends. This humiliates Wendy and being the only one who knows Jennifer's origins and what's going on with her decides to pretend to be Joshua to manipulate Gregory. With Gregory's sanity in a poor state he then ends the lives of all the orphans because of Wendy's trickery putting him to his breaking point. Wendy was using him to get revenge for being humiliated initially but she quickly realized the severity that by the time she found out what Gregory was going to do it was to late. Wendy in regret to it getting out of hand ends up managing to get Joshua's gun in the struggle, and gives it to Jennifer with 1 bullet before Gregory ends her. Because Gregory treats Jennifer as Joshua she is able to calm Gregory down, wig or no because Gregory was the one who gave Jennifer that identity. Jennifer hands Gregory his gun back at his request after Jennifer succeeds in doing so but then he takes his own life with the one bullet remaining in the gun. The bad ending is Jennifer not being able to move past her trauma from all these events as she has nothing good in it to give her the momentum to do so. And the good ending is Jennifer being able to move past it by finding, protecting, and cherishing her memories of Brown, the only companion that treated her like a normal person, and not a tool for there own wants. The game foreshadows that in the beginning by putting Brown in a locked shed that you pass by which is both where she kept brown, and a allegory of a memory deeply recessed in her mind that she cant access yet because of her trauma. To me when I put it together in this way thats why Jennifer is the only one alive. It also explains why your going through the game, and what your going through.

[@Antonero20]

I think the fact the Aristocrat Club is shown to be so mundane outside of the cutscenes just hanging around and doing nothing of note might be on purpose. Like Jennifer is realizing just how harmless they all were as actual children despite how terrifying they felt at the time (the cutscenes) as an adult. At 19 she's realizing that despite everything, they were all just kids, cruel kids that did her harm, but that just amplifies the tragedy of their fate. It's like at the end of Lord of the Flies when a rescuer finally finds the boys just as they're chasing the main character to their death and the fact they're described as just a bunch of dirty feral children who have been stranded this whole time playing supposed "games". It's hard to say if the Aristocrat Club did any actual killing through the symbolic lens of Jennifer's memory when it came to the adults like Martha during the first chapter, but under the reasonable assumption that they didn't, it means that despite the threats they could be on each other as peers, they were still fairly innocent kids who would have been around the same age as Jennifer in her adulthood by now. They could have learned better, which is shown to have been possible with how they turned around and sided with Jennifer after she stood up against Wendy which is implied to be one of the only literal memories depicted in its truest form. They were cruel, but clearly young, foolish, and very much troubled due to different reasons (mostly the implied SA for Diana, but also very much emotional neglect and possibly physical abuse due to being raised in an orphanage of that era with adults that didn't care like they should have), and because of Wendy's actions, they can never be those better forms of themselves that could look back alongside Jennifer and realize the gravity of their actions that were masked under being fun and games.

[@ah-sh9dw]

They probably just weren't threatening outside of the group dynamic

[@xXJennismsXx]

Personally, I feel pretty certain that Jennifer did lash out at Wendy and the cutscene we see is more or less accurate. The reason for that being Wendy and Gregory. The reason Wendy went to Gregory and manipulated him into going to the Orphanage was because she was deposed. She was shamed by Jennifer and the kids likely turned on her. She went from the top to the bottom of the pyramid. She wouldn't have gone to Gregory if she'd still been Princess. Also, based on Hoffman's diary, he likely just abandoned his post. He left the kids alone. The last we see hinting of Martha is a letter I think she was writing to police regarding Gregory. So, possibly she left also or Gregory killed her before the massacre and her body was never found. Clara too was gone and likely either ran away or possibly hanged herself. We can't be sure.

[@keikurono6571]

So why is Jennifer still alive and not Wendy?

[@gentlemanvaultboy8671]

@@keikurono6571 Because Jennifer is the "real" Joshua. Gregory recognized her, and killed himself in a moment of semi-lucidity rather than hurt her.

[@altheapolyam]

Yep I believe you guys got it right. Jennifer don't really kill anyone she's just confronted violently in her memories about the abuses she suffered and saw

[@MulattoHandle]

T

[@theorcosaurus]

I am genuinely so sad that we do not get risky and ambitious stuff like this anymore from AAA studios. The PSX and PS2 era were the gold rush, the peak of AAA gaming. We still have indie games though. Rule of Roses unfair treatment in the media also compounded that it never got the recognition it deserved. Glad to see that amazing channels like this one do their best to keep these games alive.

[@CabezasDePescado]

One thing that i find interesting is that this game touches on something the media always tries to hide: the sexual abuse of underage children by those "in power". Very obvious why they dont talk about it and why a story depicting that would be under attack...

[@Khn_2102]

😢😢😢​@@CabezasDePescado

[@alexandrebelair4360]

Rule of Rose wasn't AAA. AAA games were always more on the safe side.

[@zozocecp]

@@alexandrebelair4360 I’d say though, there was definitely a point in time where you could go to the store and buy a game like this. You definitely can’t now

[@andrewh.4866]

A couple things to clarify as far as depictions of trauma and their resolutions... Clara (mermaid girl) is seen in some early chapters but disappears after the mermaid chapter. Most people understand and agree that she was sick due to being pregnant with the headmaster's child (obviously unwanted) and he disappears after that time either due to scandal or leaving by choice. It's ambiguous what actually happened to the headmaster and Martha, but my guess is they ended up abandoning the orphanage and left the children to fend for themselves. In their memories, the children killed them and swept them away, but in reality they just disappeared. Clara likely either died due to the pregnancy or was forcibly removed as to avoid any additional scandal. The children continued to live in the orphanage because they had their hierarchy in place and didn't want to leave either through fear or anxiety. That's when the final straw is broken between Jennifer and Wendy, and Wendy goes to Gregory, pretends to be Joshua, and sends him to the abandoned orphanage to punish the remaining children. Gregory was only seen as a hulking beast at the end to solidify him being the "Stray Dog", and likely was never hulking or monstrous aside from murdering the children with whatever means he had. Wendy likely didn't realize how far gone Gregory was and only realized after she had already sent him to hurt the other kids that he was going to kill everyone. After he started killing, Wendy ran to get the gun for Jennifer to use on Gregory. At this point he realized he was lied to, killed Wendy, and in a moment of clarity, realized Joshua was truly gone. He used the final bullet in the gun to kill himself, the only question is if Jennifer actually willingly gave him the gun. It wouldn't make much sense for a frightened child to give a firearm to a rampaging and murderous man who had just killed all her "friends", but very little in the final chapter actually makes perfect sense. TLDR - Clara was raped and pregnant. Headmaster/Martha likely abandoned the orphanage. Gregory was never feral, just depicted that way.

[@ToTheNines87368]

@@andrewh.4866 most people agree based on what? I’m genuinely curious.

[@garblechunk]

@@ToTheNines87368 Yeah, I feel like the suicide explanation makes more sense with what we see in the game, unless there's something not included in the video?

[@altheapolyam]

I played a long time ago but I think there was something in the game that implied Clara hanged herself, and that's how the crap bout the headmaster came to life and he ran away to cover his ass. About Gregory, yes, some things are twisted in the memory, as they are remembered as trauma. Gregory wasn't a crawling beast just a crazy man. The biggest proof is the difference in physique from when he appears in normal cutscenes and in the boss battle. He was big and all that but in the fight he was way bigger and very muscular, which doesn't make sense for a poor farmer that couldn't even fend for his own children

[@vivsavagex]

@@ToTheNines87368 based on nothing. he made it up

[@jiggystar35]

I feel like the ending also mirrors the relationship of Gregory and “Joshua”. Jennifer loved Brown and wanted to keep him safe, she did that by locking him up. Gregory did the same with Jennifer. He made her Joshua and loved his son, wanted to protect him after the fact, just like Jennifer and Brown.

[@thequietestlilbucket8402]

I do genuinely believe Haunting Ground and Rule of Rose would both really benefit from modern remakes that address some of the gameplay issues that kept them down. A remake for Rule of Rose would also give them a chance to expand some of the things it seems like the devs just didn't have time or ability to build out as well as bring more variety to the locations. EDIT: When I made this comment, I was thinking of the hypothetical remake would be similar to the recent remake of Silent Hill 2: something that did only QoL changes or changes that helped intensify the story in small ways, with it being almost perfectly the same story (minus restoring cut content). I don't want a remake like Resident Evil 3, and I would even take a remaster like Fatal Frame 4 recently got. It's more that I want a version that would make current fans ecstatic, and better allow people whose only barrier to entry is the gameplay issues the chance to fall in love with this wonderful story.

[@roberthartburg266]

In theory the game just needs combat with better hit detection.But in reality you can't remake those games, the people in the industry today don't have the skill to do that and they would butcher it for their own ideas. That is also why I would disagree with them "expanding" the story, it would destroy what those games are and turn it into fan fiction of the new developers.

[@thequietestlilbucket8402]

​@roberthartburg266 It feels like wild timing to say that, but I can see and appreciate why you would have such strong reservations on a remake. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, and continue to appreciate the beautiful game that we have without discussing further this highly improbable hypothetical.

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

I don't know if the game really would have benefited from more diversity in the locations. The locations in question are all very purposeful, as is the dreary colour palette that they share. One approach that could potentially help with the level variety and the combat could be to introduce sections that are reminiscent of Silent Hill: Shattered Memories where you are explicitly intended to be running away from the majority of the monsters through impossible spaces (not necessarily in the form of the forced running in a straight line, but perhaps a happy medium with the rooms rearranged and corridors twisted and elongated, or doors that lead to places that don't make logical sense. I feel like it might be cool to have some of the paths in those sections lead into a room where you can observe characters playing out a short scene before the monsters interrupt and you need to run). Other than that, I feel like the combat just needed better targeting so that you weren't missing constantly. The biggest issue is probably the way that the progression is mostly just walking around and following the dog. The game would probably be more engaging if you were stopped partway through and presented with some kind of activity to perform in order to make progress, such as playing a game with one of the other girls or looking for a key item that makes you re-use a prior scent in a new context (say that you have a locked door and get a hint that one of the caretakers would have the key, so you have to identify an item that's relevant to one of the staff from a previous point in the game, then the dog directs you upstairs on a route that passes by a jacket that's been hung up to dry and you see them dressed differently from usual. You then should be able to put together that they were out in the rain and had to change before picking up the key you need from the jacket and following the original scent. Maybe there's at least one new scent each level for the critical path, but each new day you can still make use of the others to locate different characters and check in on them. They might have intended the mechanic to be used like that, but the way that the movement and combat are implemented really screams of a rushed development, so those peripheral ideas and missable scenes needed to be cut significantly in order to tell the full extent of the story they wrote).

[@dck7048]

These games touch on too many no-no topics in chillingly uncomfortable depictions that it is impossible for today's game industry to faithfully recreate them without inserting a modern spin on it.

[@KOTEBANAROT]

​​@@dck7048mate it was banned in multiple countries, crashed and burned financially and now haunts Ebay priced like a military jet

[@meow33_33]

Neither the behavior nor the form of 'Stray Dog' in the final encounter should be taken as factual descriptions. The other Boss Battles all feature distorted versions of the characters, and parts or even the whole thing may have been completely imagined. The physical appearance is clearly fantastical as a Wilson is much larger and bulkier as Stray Dog than as 'himself'. It seems far fetched to think that Wendy would have _literally_ trained him to behave like a dog - how and when would she have even been able to do that? His behavior and appearance during the scene is likely just allegorical.

[@gentlemanvaultboy8671]

The problem there is that we have Martha's word that she had seen Wendy training Gregory like a dog. She was so concerned about that, she kept trying to contact the police. Which also means that Wendy was doing it even before the orphans were all left alone to go full Lord of the Flies.

[@philiphart4146]

@@gentlemanvaultboy8671 How, exactly, was it framed? "Training like a dog" is an old British expression meaning "manipulating someone who's naive to their mistreatment". It's likely the simile is being made literal here.

[@gentlemanvaultboy8671]

​@@philiphart4146 Her letter isn't very long, so I'll just post the contents. "My name is Martha Carol, and I work at the Rose Garden Orphanage. In the past month, I have sent six letters to your attention, but have yet to receive a response. Have my letters reached you? I ask that you please investigate this matter at once for the safety of our children. Yesterday, I saw them together again... Mr. Wilson and Wendy, a child at our orphanage. I am very concerned for her safety. The two of them have been acting quite strangely. Oh, it's terribly odd... By strangely, I mean.. Mr. Wilson walking on all fours and nodding... and Wendy appears to be scolding him... I don't know how to explain it, except that it resembled dog training gone wrong. Ooo... it gives me the shivers just thinking about it. Please come investigate this matter as--" The police's previous reply, which you find with this letter, also indicates that the reason the police aren't taking her seriously is because the description she's giving of the person who's with Gregory up to this point matches the description of Gregory's son. Also, the response is dated Oct 20th, while Marth's last letter was dated as Nov 24th. Meaning, someone hid the response from her.

[@gentlemanvaultboy8671]

@@philiphart4146 Very literally. Martha says she's seen Greg crawling around on all fours while Wendy scolds him, and explicitly compares it to dog training. An interesting detail is that Martha states that she's sent 6 letters that month to the police, but hasn't received a single reply back. You find a reply from the police alongside her letter, though, dated one month before her last letter. In the reply, they say they aren't looking into the matter because the person Martha described as being with Gregory matches the description of Gregory's son. This makes me think that the police only received the first letter Martha wrote to them, before she figured out that the boy was Wendy in disguise, and that their reply, along with all her other letters to them, were intercepted.

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

@@gentlemanvaultboy8671 that does not mean he went full animal feral in zero way symbolic as shown off still thou people have been made into animals by those who dominated in real life which a concerning piece reality put into the game of cruel reality

[@EdRopple]

The analog stick walk/run thing is a common rookie gamedev mistake. The XY coordinates have a “square” range (X -1 to 1, Y -1 to 1) but the motion of the stick is actually a circle that only gets near 1 at the extremes. You have to do some math to know when the stick is mostly tilted, rather than just go “if X > 0.8, then run”.

[@Scoopsdepoop]

Gotta look at the rate at which it got to .8?

[@ereviscale3966]

​@@Scoopsdepoop If you set it to run>0.8 then the threshold for running will be in the shape of a square on an analog stick, so you will have to push the corners farther to run than just up, down, left, or right. So you have to make the threshold for running into a circle shape with trigonometry or some other math. It makes more sense if you're looking at a visualization. I don't think measuring the acceleration or rate of acceleration would be ideal because you may get frustrated flicking the stick around, but maybe that would work?

[@maciejstachowski183]

@@ereviscale3966 specifically, the calculation they use is (probably) "either |X| > 0.8 or |Y| > 0.8" (so either of the x,y coordinates is either above 0.8 or below -0.8), when the actual calculation should be "distance from 0,0 to the current stick position is > 0.8". You don't need trig for that, just basic Pythagoras theorem/circle formula - x^2 + y^2 = r^2.

[@charlottecorday8494]

My cat's breath smells like cat food

[@gManGabe]

Normalize your vectors, children

[@timothyalabi]

In the end Jennifer wishes she could have kept Brown safe and protected from the world by locking him in the shed. As Brown runs to the door after Jennifer, the collar put around him painfully tugs against him (mirroring how Jennifer constantly was bound throughout the story) It’s the same as what Gregory did to her, trapping her in the basement, in his wishes to protect his memories of Joshua. Jennifer in wishing to protect Brown by binding him and locking him in that shed comes to understand what Gregory did to her and the other orphans, she comes to understand why he did it. In that way she could forgive him and move past her trauma. She will now keep Brown in her heart forever, as Gregory should have down with his memories of Joshua. It’s ambiguous whether this is a healthy way to do it (Brown obviously wasn’t happy in that shed) or if it was healthy acceptance

[@kidprime6863]

To me, it's more of a "The Cycle Continues" kind of thing

[@kenshokram]

The game is about love as an obsession, and as you said it mimics Greg and Joshua, but mainly mimics the way Wendy tried to keep Jennifer trapped only with her.

[@GambeTama]

It definitely has that ambiguity going for it. In the same way that you can interpret this scene as Jennifer resigning Brown the the same fate as Joshua, I see it as Jennifer ending her self reflection by going back to the most precious memory of her time at the orphanage, and choosing to stop it there. She spent the whole game being forced to relive the memories of the traumas and spite she underwent in those decrepit homes, but between it all, there was a small moment where she was truly happy. Brown was by her side through practically the whole adventure, and the game would have been impossible without him. So when the game ends where it does, with Jennifer leaving Brown in the shed, guarded by the Bucket Knight, I see it as her remembering one of those days she went to go see him, give him his new collar, played with him for a bit, and said goodbye until they next met. As DC even pointed out, it was the reconciliation of her past that possibly allowed for the Brown to come to her aid in the finale, during a time when he should be definitively dead. So perhaps the game chose to show Jennifer ending her reflection by moving past her traumas, and holding onto the one thing that gave her solace in those dark times. She closes the door until the next time they met, but ends the tale there, so it never reaches the tragedy once more.

[@PixelOverload]

​@@GambeTama I feel it's worth noting our perspective as the abused protagonist shifts from Jennifer to Brown in that last scene, and from the dog's perspective being bound and locked in a shed _is_ the tragedy

[@GambeTama]

@@PixelOverload Perhaps, but the context of the scene overall is about Jennifer looking back on the 'good' memories of the orphanage. If you travel around and examine the other people there, she regards all of them quite fondly. She even passes a kind remark to Hoffman, saying that he was a good instructor, at least when they met. The scene even takes a moment to show Wendy locked behind the gate, which I think might make sense as her refusing to remember taking Wendy to meet Brown, and everything else that resulted from it. At the very least, this could also come from my interpretation of RoR as Jennifer trying to come to terms with her traumas. There is no indication that she would go on to become an abuser, as all of the scenes play out in her memory, and the only time she has any positive regard toward anything in any way is at this epilogue chapter, after she has confronted and worked past all of her traumatic memories. Even the final symbology of leaving a Bucket Knight in there with him. Marking this room in her mind as a place of safety to come back to when times get tough, and also to reiterating the purpose of the Bucket Knight as the keeper of promises - more specifically, her promise to keep brown safe in some way, by preserving him in her memories.

[@lemonlefleur6236]

You know I personally don’t have the acquired taste needed to actually play horror games, but it’s so nice having someone who walks through them like this in a way that I can find palatable. Like I enjoy digesting the content, but could never play the game myself.

[@faceless.cowboy9966]

45:01 I thinks actually more sinister that you can talk casually with and interact with the meanest core members. Because even in some of their most vulnerable moments you still wouldn’t harm them or immobilize them in anyway to get the upper hand. It reminds me of younger bullies who would still do class projects with you and even sit next to you in class but harm you when you least suspect. Like they know you and could even like you but still choose to hate you 💗 love the video💗😁😁💗 I’ve been waiting for the rule of rose video from this channel

[@kenshokram]

Exactly this! Well put.

[@matildarose]

I agree. It's the sort of mundane horror. Sometimes the worst part of childhood bullying is realizing that the person you fear is someone you have to interact with and appease, as well as someone affected by the same system they're responsible for enforcing. It's the banal horror of social cliques that cannot retain their form outside of the bubble they're created in, ie Lord of the Flies. I get the point made here, though; if Haunting Ground deployed a similar approach, it'd detract from the feel the game was going for in its gameplay. Both are legit ways to explore horror.

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

Yes this is me exactly I have seen it in other media for example in 2003 FMA the whole villains group is a Mother figure an her exploited children who are failed attempts at returning a loved one to life letting the fandom explore how living for so long with broken people would be like always got me good "I don't have time for your tantrum right now" being used towards one the most feral enemies like there just a child is far more scary then monster enemy must punch in face cause he bad the end

[@asteria9963]

Pretty much this. A big part of bullying is making the victim feel like it's their fault, and you do this by not getting caught and pretending to be just another average person, gaslighting the victim. Never forget that bullies are always cowards. They have to hide what they're doing, or someone stronger will grind them to dust.

[@Nameless-ny8nk]

It really adds to the fact that they are literally just children Jennifer lived with- no matter how horrible they were, the epilogue really solidifies to me that that was the point of the story to some extent, yes, they were horrible and did terrible things, but they also played with dolls and played in the rain together, that´s literally what children are like, my brother used to tell me to kms when I was really little to make my cousins laugh, and the next moment we would all be playing on someone´s backyard like normal children do, it´s mundane when that´s your present life even if it hurts, but it gets more horrible once you grow up and really think about it, and at the same time, you also realize that the person who hurt you so badly waas also just another child.

[@embargovenom9948]

It's painful how ignored this game was. The team deserved accolades for the experience they made. Too bad censorship stopped so many markets from experiencing it, and the bad gameplay stopped it from being popular in the rest. At least creators like you keep its memory alive, and let new people learn about its subtle genius. Hopefully it'll inspire future creators.

[@alexandrebelair4360]

The problem was that the gameplay sucked.

[@MultiBoxingKid]

Speaking of Gergory, I personally think the missing children was coincidence, I think he only ever kidnapped Jennifer. He took Jennifer and dressed him as Joshua, so that he can lie to himself that Joshua is still alive, then when Jennifer escaped, he broke completely. And then Wendy came, dressed as Joshua, and Gregory decided to do whatever "he" asked of him, just so Joshua doesn't leave him. After the massacred, and especially after he killed Wendy after she took off her wig, he came to his senses after probably seeing Wendy's body in his son's clothes, and then killed himself.

[@llywas]

I always thought that the good ending is just very literal and shows exactly what did happen in past. Jennifer did try to keep Brown away from people in the shed, it's not like you're allowed to bring a stray dog to an oprhanage and keep him there. Because she spend so much time with Brown and not as much with Wendy, she ended up as the target to the Red Aristocrats Club - she wasn't targeted before Wendy got increasingly jealous and angry at her. I mean her place at the club was being the prince by Wendy's side before that. That's why she also only lashed out AFTER they touched Brown.

[@Frost_Winterfall]

also worth adding, it tracks that she would be dirty all the time if she constantly went to Brown out in the shed, and would be seen as lazy since she looks after Brown instead of doing chores like the rest of the girls

[@The-Seal-Of-Approval]

What you said about the mermaid fight sounds a lot like how CSA and SA can feel. And "When you win, you don't even feel any satisfaction" Because you don't actually win, you are just losing less

[@kowrow]

the ending i always went with growing up is that she did stand up to them which is what caused wendy to bring gregory. the final chapter is jennifer reminiscing as an adult - keeping all the good memories from her childhood and protecting them, even of wendy who ultimately hurt her the most, as she gets over her trauma as an adult.

[@yarrbraxas]

Yours is one of maybe three YT channels I genuinely get excited for when I see a new upload. The speed with which you release these is amazing and I truly appreciate it. Thanks a ton for all this amazing content, I regularly find myself re-watching a random video of yours every couple of days.

[@yowatchie]

Dude how are you doing this? You just uploaded the Maken X and the Grim Fandango video within a month of this. Plus it’s been not even two months since that big ass 2 hour Goichi Suda video. This level of quality and video length output is absurd. So glad I found your channel.

[@dungeonchill]

I always tell myself I’m going to take my time with the next one, but then I get really into the process and excited about what I’m making. Then I can’t really stop until it’s done. It’s not always easy, but it’s always rewarding. That’s my 100% honest answer.

[@j.2512]

the world's longest gooning session

[@zoombig]

​@@dungeonchill bro you’re supposed to milk your patrons as much as possible and not spoil us filthy free watchers with quality contents 😂

[@dungeonchill]

Everyone is getting spoiled. Deal with it.

[@ratboner8082]

Kiss me you sexy sleep aid

[@WhoeverNevermind]

Fun fact: there's an extremely old, obscure and abandoned KZbin channel called RuleOfRoseMysteries, where a creator with the most aesthetically pleasing voice dives deep into... well, Rule of Rose mysteries and explains theories about its plot. It's a true hidden gem, in my opinion.

[@CabezasDePescado]

That is actually the channel of a website dedicated to peel every layer of meaning from this game, but the website got shut down for some reason

[@Nipah.Auauau]

@@CabezasDePescado They dove too deep...

[@CabezasDePescado]

Maybe they were on to something

[@miscielrossvillegas6307]

@@Nipah.Auauau Nah. The host lost interest and decided not to renew the site anymore. It's as mundane as that. (I had an account on the site and checked in regularly. When the posts slowed down and stopped, I just knew.)

[@thebaffman4898]

As an Italian, I'm still embarrassed about what happened. Unfortunately it's not even an isolated case, and to this day videogames are either not taken seriously at all or blamed for instigating violence. Things are getting better, thanks to the effort of some important videogame organizations, but the road is still long.

[@bzipoli]

this is pretty much every country, don't worry bro

[@asteria9963]

@@bzipoli Nah, not where I live. Today's adults grew up on videogames. They know it's all bullshit and will laugh you out the door if you blame videogames for anything. I know this for a fact, because the usual suspects tried it a couple years ago, and that's exactly what happened. It's a clown move.

[@stormiette]

The backlash to this game was really wild! I watched another video last year about the game that went into more detail, and the outright lies about the game that led to its banning were extreme

[@charlottecorday8494]

At least you have the most awesome Prime Minister in the history of ever, that's got to balance out right?

[@blinkyy1088]

The era of religious extremists (i'm somewhat religious myself) acting rabid over violent videogames was absurd. I can understand restricting access for young children

[@TheDeadAwesome]

Have no interest in playing any of these games but I love hearing you talk about them. Especially since you do it without that over the top youtube voice. Thanks for the content!

[@zombilady8633]

The monotone chill voiceover is one of the perks of this channel, especially when I go to bed. A+ for the jokes as well.

[@TheDeadAwesome]

@@zombilady8633 very true!

[@Anazsand]

Story: - Jennifer and her parents go on an airship trip to India; coincidentaly, the kids from the orphanage go to the launch of the New airship, the greatest at the time (clue: The World’s Largest Airship to Take Flight, april 25, 1929). The kids of the orphanage also make a drawing about watching an airship taking flight , found at the room Wendy is currently sick - Gregory at this time is already kidnapping children of the nearby city, most likely after Joshuas death (Another Unexplained Disappearance, june 21, 1989). Wendy probably created the Stray dog legend with Gregory in mind, "Stray dog kidnaps kids, stray dog gives us sweets" - the airship Jennifer and her parents are traveling on crashes (Luxury Airship Missing!, june 23, 1989). Gregory finds her and most likely because she resembles his deceased son Joshua, treats her like him and locks him in the basement - Wendy finds Jennifer and helps her flee (the W & J letters). This deteriorates Gregorys mind even more. Jennifer and Wendy plead their love for each other and Wendy brings her to the orphanage - at the orphanage, Jennifer and Wendy are happy and they are the Princess and Prince of the Red Rose Aristocrats. But some time later, Jennifer finds Brown and this makes the two of them grow distant, Jennifer not reciprocating Wendys attention and feelings as much anymore - some time after this, Mr. Hoffman flees the orphanage on a hurry "because of Jennifer" (Mr. Hoffmans diary), leaving Clara and Martha behind to take Care of the children - Wendy punishes Jennifer using the aristocrat club out of jealousy, and this ends with the kids killing Brown because Wendy wanted Jennifers attention all to herself. Wendy is demoted and ostracized by the other kids - in october, Martha exchanges letters with police Officer Anthony Dolittle, taking about witnessing Wendy training Gregory as a "dog" in all fours (Gregory conpletely lost his mind). This goes nowhere - Wendy brings Gregory to the orphanage to teach a lesson on the other kids, specially Jennifer. But Gregory is a serial kid kidnapper and killer, and proceeds to kill all the children on the orphanage, except Jennifer because he recognizes Jennifer (as Joshua). He kills himself (Daily Flamingo Newspaper, december 20, 1930)

[@aife1112]

You may not read this, but you're the reason why I've started to watch and enjoy these types of niche/old video games retrospective videos. Thank you, Mr. Dungeon Chill.

[@three_seashells]

Based

[@yuuzanami]

I just know when I see an upload from you im gonna be getting cozy in my bed in a dark room with my iPad just vibing. You truly make such amazing, relaxing, enjoyable content.

[@BasedSuccuboi]

I don’t know if this is mentioned in other comments but the imps, specifically the ones with the animal heads, directly represent certain kids. That scene where they are all wearing paper bags on their heads, there are animal faces drawn on the bags. Goat for Meg, fish for Diana, pig for Amanda, bird for Eleanor, all the rest are the other kids. Also it’s worth pointing out that those reactions with the aristocrats being nice to Jennifer one minute and then being cruel the next is pretty spot on for kids. The aristocrats even do this to each other. Meg and Diana killed Eleanor’s bird, Diana ripped up Meg’s love letter, Meg and Eleanor were spying on Diana when she was being touched by the headmaster. It seems fickle and volatile because children’s friendships are fickle and volatile. It’s nice that Jennifer can see this looking back at the end and let go of that resentment knowing that at the end of the day they were all just kids that everyone abandoned.

[@GoreMartyr]

In the one day this video has been uploaded for, I've watched it over and over. Rule of Rose was one of those games that just never left me, and this game specifically was my introduction into survival horror games. I never got to finish it, and the strange plot was hard for my young brain to grasp at the time, but even that didn't stop me from putting this game at the top of my list for niche games that rarely anyone remembered. Rule of Rose made the transitional games of PS2 to PS3 as one of my favourite aesthetics when it comes to games I play today, in both appearance and atmosphere. Being able to finally understand the story to one of my favourite games has genuinely been the highlight of my year. I was already in love with your narration and the care you take with these old games, and this video made you my favourite video game review channel. Thank you for handling this game with the care it needed while also being critical about what made this game so unique, whether it was for the better or worse.

[@Geebees93]

Could have sworn you've covered this before, but after hearing you mention it I was definitely thinking of Haunting Ground. Looking forward to this one!

[@dungeonchill]

It's easy to get the two confused, haha.

[@happylilguy1827]

I found your channel from your Cosmology of Kyoto video and since then, every time I get the notification that you uploaded a ew video, it absolutely makes my week. Thank you for all of the hard work you put into making these videos. It really shows and they're hands down my favorite dissection/retrospective/review videos.

[@just4joebob]

Props to you for risking algorithm death for the sake of not spoiling the story for people in an almost two hour long video, that's genuinely awesome. Also good on Jennifer for getting her mind together, good thing nothing bad happens in Britain for the next decade or three after all that..nothing at all..

[@justmyluck2335]

I know Rule of Rose gets flack for bad combat, but it makes sense to me that Jennifer can't fight. She was an unwilling participant in this story, and she can't fathom hurting anybody. Nevertheless, I understand the frustrations. I just run away from encounters when I can (except for the Pig Princess chapter cuz you have to fight them unfortunately). Rule of Rose was a great game. Terrifying, ominous, but great. Also, Withcer's Ciri and Dragon Age 2's female Hawke's voice actor, Jo Wyatt, plays Jennifer in this game.

[@prepcoin_nl4362]

This seems like one of the most tragic cases of developers who were deeply inspired by a story but had no idea how to turn that idea into a satisfying game. I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where the quality between its cutscenes and gameplay diverged so widely. It probably would've worked fine as a point and click adventure game (or hell, even a turn based RPG in the vain of Koudelka) but of course, they were out of vogue way before the mid-2000s and survival horror was very in-vogue. So that's what we got: An incredible story shoehorned into a genre of the week cash-in. And it's such a shame because what a story it is too. Most stories in this category would eventually show some sort of conceit, some sort of cowardice and have someone break the fourth wall and explain directly to the audience what is going on. But this story is unflinching in its ambiguity. There's never even a firm sense of what "reality" could be. All there is a hall of distorted mirrors, of memories and dreams and neuroses and a near complete undecidability of which is which. All summed up by one of the most emotionally affecting final cut scenes I've ever seen in any medium. At face value, it is the main character's wish to protect her childhood friend but in a broader sense, it seems to be a desire to protect herself from any of the harm that ever came to her and preserve her own innocence. But of course, by doing so, she also has to isolate her and Brown, to deprive both of them of the love and companionship they felt with each other. It raises the eternal question: Is it better to love and lose, or to never love at all? Is it better for Jennifer to make it so Brown can never be killed, or never be loved? Is it possible for any of us to truly live a life without also eventually being hurt by it? Life can be cruel. I almost feel tears just writing this, because there is no real answer nor does the game pretend there is. This is exactly what great art should do: Raise hard questions and not cop out with easy answers. Yet of course, this is also all attached to the same game that brought us the vomiting mermaid fight. Life can be cruel. For all of that, I have to say thank you. These are exactly the sort of games that are served well by your style and what you should be doing all the time. Keep up the good work. EDIT: Also, it just occurred to me that the "bad" ending of the game is probably the "true" ending given how everything that follows in the bonus chapter is clearly some sort of imagined resolution to Jennifer's trauma. What if Gregory having a final moment of clarity and killing himself as penance was also part of that imagined resolution? What if in reality, she had to be the one to shoot Gregory dead and that's why she was the only one to survive? Why she is alone and unlucky and grew up with survivor's guilt while everyone else stays a kid and is remembered as a distorted memory? In any case, there is something so bleak about how the "good" ending of the game is filled with clearly impossible events and that in reality, there is no escape for Jennifer. Whatever happened happened. And all she's left with is distorted memories of a broken childhood and fantasies that will never be.

[@diosmiolacreatura]

This is genuinely one of my favorite games of all time. Not because of the gameplay and combat, but because of the impact the story had on me and how it haunted my mind rent-free for years and inspired so much of my own creativity. I just wish it wasn’t so expensive now to get a copy since I lost my original in the divorce 😢

[@davidperez8852]

There is actually a diary in Hoffmann office you can find in the last chapter that makes things really interesting and raises more questions. He mentions in march 1930 that the kids are spreading rumors about stray dog and that their disturbing. The interesting entries though are both in April. He mentions that one child a girl has been causing trouble it implies it’s a new girl so possibly Jennifer, it mentions she’s not doing her chores and was the one who let the rabbit loose. In November he mentions the kids are spreading rumors about stray dog again and that the public is panicking about it abductions he’s even using rumors to his benefit to get the children to clean. The interesting part is no mention of these abductions happening at the orphanage so that may likely actually be a coincidence. In august he mentions Clara was asking to help more around the orphanage and was working late into the night, he helps her gently back to sleep but considers talking to Martha to have Clara work in the orphanage. This particular entry makes me wonder if all the suspicions implications that revolve around her in game are because of horrible things, or if it’s the children getting the wrong idea and spreading the rumor about it? In November the last entry Hoffman says that Clara is there to take care of things and that he’s leaving the orphanage. He again blames the new girl and says he hasn’t done anything to deserve this. With all the accounts of the children spreading rumors and his sudden departure it makes me question two things. Will all the blatant SA imagery is it possible that, that is what happened or is it Jennifer trying to recontextulaize what she saw as a child through the lens of adult hood and was Jennifer the one spreading these rumors? We know Wendy is the lying princess and was the one who called stray dog so could it possibly have been her that spread these rumors? Or did these thing actually happen and now Jennifer is trying to come to terms with the abuse that she had witnessed through the lens of an adult. She may not have stood up to Wendy but Hoffmann last entry implies that she did eventually stand up and possibly caused him to abandon the orphanage. I would love to get more insight and other peoples thoughts on this

[@davidepastore5600]

Doesn't Amanda's diary says that she tattled on Hoffman, but failed? Could it be that Wendy was trying to get rid of Hoffman by having the other girls accuse him of sexual abuse (truthfully or not remains in the air due to the unreliability of the narrative, as you said). The fact he's fought bound with ropes seems to reinforce the idea he may have been accused and eventually arrested, leading to his dismissal as headmaster of the orphanage.

[@davidperez8852]

@@davidepastore5600 considering that she tattles to Hoffman I think it has to involve Amanda blaming Jennifer for something but was unable to convince Hoffman? Or possibly trying to get Hoffman aware of the aristocrat club and what has been going on but Hoffman brushes it aside as childish play. Unless I read it wrong I can’t remember if she tattles on Hoffman or too Hoffman

[@davidepastore5600]

@@davidperez8852 The diary says she tattled *on* Mr. Hoffman. To whom, then? And why did she "fail"?

[@otapic]

You are on a roll rn, all these quality hour long vids every 2 weeks is insane. Don't get yourself burnt out man, looking forward to what you cook again next

[@Kimberpls]

It has been a pleasure to watch you grow with these titles. Thanks for covering these.

[@krisu0100]

That main theme is stuck to my head, especially because I found out yesterday that I lost my mother. Thanks for your video, it's a helpful distraction. Even though I wasn't sure about watching horror right now.

[@dungeonchill]

Very sorry for your loss. Glad the video could help in some way.

[@megastephatron]

the issue with her not running on diagonals is most likely an emulation issue, she runs diagonally perfectly fine on original hardwate. fantastic video!

[@EddyScbr]

Man, I had never heard of this game before, and that ending affected me way, way harder than I expected. I'm currently in my early thirties and for half my life I had just the best dog, a really cute and fun poodle who went through some hell when he was young and ended up getting extremely attached to me as a response to the trauma he went through (and, in turn, with my depression and ASD, I got extremely attached to him, too). It's now been 3 years since he died (and I don't have a dog anymore due to issues with new neighbors that have moved to my building since preventing me from adopting a new puppy) and that reveal and ending just... hurt. To this day, I still think of that little fluffball as the best friend I've ever had, so that ending hit way closer to home than I expected. Though I can take solace that, in my life, I did have the opportunity to stay with him until the end.

[@sweepingtime]

Abstract stories like in this game can often get lost in the presentation, but I found the story pretty easy to follow and interpret- though I suppose that the themes can still be interpreted in many ways, making it a personalized story for many players. Also I think that Jennifer managed to leave the orphanage before the murder rampage? There was the scene of Wendy looking at Jennifer through the bars of the gate, making me think that Jennifer managed to get adopted and was being led away, which would also explain her adult appearance in the game. Her departure was also the trigger for Wendy's insanity, who led 'Stray Dog' to the orphanage and when he couldn't find his Joshua there, triggered him to kill everyone.

[@demek9704]

Because you used the dog as a point marker for the entire game you missed plenty of secret lore and even cutscenes. You can get a gun in the secret Hoffman Room if you find all perfume bottles (gun suck btw), 4 golden knives for the Knight Rapier, cutscene with Hoffman and a kid in a room, the woman in the bag was Martha (he is most likely dead in the ending), the weird don't open up the desk scene, Hoffman and the imp scene and more. Without playing the game like 3 or 4 times it is impossible to get everything because even wiki, walkthrougs are wrong. Btw. Did he use the exchange with Aristocrates future ? If not for the combat the game could be a hidden gem, cult classic like Silent Hill or Project Zero (Fatal Frame).

[@demek9704]

I think in chapter 2 or maybe 3 (after the stairs cutscene) you can find Martha tied up in a bag in some random room. The bag is moving so she was most likely tortured by the kids. I did full playthrough back in 2019 with my sister and we spend like 20h+ on our first run so I was shocked when people said you can beat the game in like 5-10h. In NG+ you can exchange the rusty rapier for a shiny rapier or something like this so there is a point in doing a NG+.

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

I'm inclined to give the guy a pass on that, given that the game doesn't indicate that you are better off exploring without having Brown lead you to the next point on the critical path and makes it appear like that's the intended way to play. Maybe if Brown was used exclusively for guiding you to find the other characters, some of whom are posted along the critical path and some of whom are optional, and consumable items it may have been a bit clearer. Having the characters be posted up in different locations each day and having the player slowly build up an inventory of scented items that relate to rooms that you've visited and people you've met could have been a happy medium that didn't make players less inclined to investigate.

[@demek9704]

@@casanovafunkenstein5090 Yes the game is pretty vague about the exchange mechanics or the special items but I have nothing to Dungeon Chill more to the game devs. It's much better game review than NitroRad Kuon where he just bash stuff for no reason when the game wasn't that bad. I just hate when people see only the price tag of the game rather than the game itself. I would rate Rule of Rose solid 6,5/10 after like 3 full runs. The game would be a perfect Remake target with better combat and more stuff to do in between chapters.

[@KOTEBANAROT]

Personally my belief is Martha was simply fired for blowing the whistle.

[@99DTC99]

In the video you mentioned the mermaid fight is the worst design, most frustrating and lowest point of the game, I think developers purposely did that to portray the how Clara feels at the orphanage and especially with regards to what Mr Hoffman is doing to her. The slow agonizing torture where you are not in control, the unexpected drop in (portray when Mr Hoffman would appear to do his deeds), the unfairness and how meager your attacks are (to show how weak Clara is in compare to Mr Hoffman) and that Brown been useless in this fight (no one can help you at the orphanage).

[@ExpandDong420]

Anyone who would sacrifice fun to make an artistic point doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, so I'll just assume they did it wrong

[@interestingusername306]

I adore the mermaid's design, it's so disturbing. Her "gills" look like cuts, she throws up all over the place as a pregnant person not prepared to deal with pregnancy would, she's strung up on a noose and her "fin" are just her tied up legs that could hint at Hoffmann restraining her before abusing the poor girl, her being afraid to open her legs after what happened or Hoffmann trying out BDSM on this literal child. There's so much to read into in her bossfight alone.

[@interestingusername306]

@@Channel-gz9hm not what they said. Art doesn't need to be fun and games can be art. Rule of Rose is trying to get you to feel a certain way, not provide a happy fun time with focus on gameplay.

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

@@interestingusername306 ICO is a revolutionary game praised all over the industry an one the most memorable moments is when your removed from your companion an you have to do platforming with no save points so once you meet back up its pure refile the whole game served to hammer in the connection to that companion every moment without them is stressful and towards the end that person saves the player

[@interestingusername306]

@@senritsujumpsuit6021 god I love ico and shadow of the colossus so much

[@davidgriffiths3531]

Hey man, just wanted to drop you a extremely well-deserved like and engagement comment. Found your channel ages ago and you quickly became one of my favourite “people talking about video games” guy, alongside Accursed Farms, Grim Beard and Civvie. I think you’ve done an amazing job with this piece (the same applies for every video of yours honestly) and I wanted to genuinely thank you for the effort. All the best 💪🏻

[@GaleBraveHeart]

Thanks for taking a look at this game, watched a video ages ago about the psychology in this game. Of how the kids run the society, like Amanda for example. A girl who was at the lower class constantly punished by the upper class, and the smile she has during the scene is the power she gets from being in the upper class. Only the next scene we see, is how easily that power is stripped. I don't recall the video entirely, but it was interesting to watch. Glad you played, and looked into it, would love to play it myself but sadly the store that had it in stock was like 800 bucks. Still enjoyable to listen to others watching and giving their thoughts on the game.

[@josephforjoseph]

You ability to tell a story about telling a story if so engaging. Coupler with you humor and your flavor of 'chill', amazing videos my guy. This game would have traumatized me if i actually played it. Watching your video, playing vicariously though it, really shows the art of this game. Its a very evokative work and outside the mechanics perhaps, one of the best stories ive seen in a game. Very genuine and unique in undertaking

[@ozstrider]

It’s 11:17pm and I could go to bed, or I could stay up for 2 more hours and be a husk of my true self in front of my friends and family tomorrow. Sucks to be my friends and family, I guess!!

[@dungeonchill]

Become one with the husk life.

[@domeplsffs]

Life can be cruel.

[@vovin8132]

I just nap through these long vids. Let Dungeon Chill explain the story subliminally as you drool on your pillow.

[@ryguy7227]

I wouldn't want to be her best friend.

[@no_opinion1065]

I fully expected a monthly upload schedule for videos so good.

[@global-sequence]

It is unbelievable they squeezed these graphics out of the PS2.

[@starlightelixir9550]

My mother and I managed to get this game when it first started making the rounds, and we loved it so, so much. I was really young, but utterly captivated by it. We would play it every weekend that I visited her, until we finally beat it--and Radiata Stories. Well, we never got to beat Radiata, we ran into a really weird bug where the final boss with Ridley just... Wouldn't load. This game drove us insane, though, with two different endings. I still own a copy; my first copy as stolen, but the video rental place in my hometown shut down. And I managed to snag the copy there for about $8. manual and all. It has a little label around the middle of the disc, detailing where it was from, but still. I was so, so fortunate. It's a game that means a lot to me, and it always will.

[@barry-allenthe-flash8396]

The soundtrack to this is genuinely insane - it adds SO MUCH tension, Christ. Reminds me of the creepy animated intro to old episodes of _Masterpiece Theater Mystery_ except far more frenzied (though maybe that's because I watch your excellent but *insanely long videos* at 1.25x or 1.5x speed). I really wish more horror games opted for something similar in their sound design now that I'm hearing this...

[@DeletarTepes]

Yo TWO HOURS!? You are amazing

[@dungeonchill]

I had a lot to say about Rule of Rose.

[@DeletarTepes]

@@dungeonchill this is another one I love because it got my wife into watching survival horror

[@DeletarTepes]

Please excuse my comment spam for this this is a treat, I absolutely agree with wanting fresh eyes for a game nothing makes them stick with me as well as unfiltered first exposure. Also I adore the theme of this game, so dark and dramatic with a bit of sadistic charm. Glorious. Edit: the mermaid fight! I knew it loool

[@DeletarTepes]

I agree with nearly everything said in your analysis. I feel this game isn't "scary" , but there is true horror. The horror of how cruel the world can be, be it from humans or just being "unlucky". All of the innuendo and implications with abuse, victims begetting more victims. But games like this shine a spotlight on these kinds of subjects that are hard to swallow in any medium, and I'd hope somewhere it helped someone come to terms with their own trauma like hopefully Jennifer made some semblance of peace and could try to heal from hers.

[@gsboss]

i love this channel. picking all the games i wanted but never played and covering everything. there are a few channels similar, but you do it best. keep it up man

[@Sarcorco]

You quickly mentioned that running with the analog stick only works in cardinal directions, that's a pretty common problem especially with worn out controllers and poorly setup thresholds for running. After a lot of use the controller gets worn and you no longer get a full range of motion on the analog stick, and then the game interprets that as walking even if the stick is fully tilted. They probably only tested it on new controllers where it was completely fine. This can also be a problem while emulating with different controllers, but there you can set the range yourself and fix the issue. Fantastic video and damn what a messed up a story that was.

[@shr1mpgod]

Dungeon chill I love your videos!!! I’ve watched Rule of Rose videos before but nothing has made me appreciate everything the story and atmosphere has to offer like your video. I even cried towards the end…. Thank you for making such amazing and thoughtful content!!

[@rundas9000]

I found your channel a couple months ago and I've already caught up on all your videos. They're addicting to watch! The blend between sharing your experience of playing the game with your pure analysis of the game itself creates great pacing that keeps my interest throughout each one (these two hours flew by). It's also appreciated how much work you put into writing an actual script and doing research. I've watched a lot of video games essays and a fair share of them made me question if the creator wrote anything at all in advance or just turned on the mic and started talking. So the evident high quality of these essays makes your content stand out. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@tamagothchic]

I was literally talking about Haunting Ground yesterday, explaining to a friend that it was a different game to Rule of Rose. What timing!

[@AlexsanderSantiago]

Damn man, this is a Hell of a sad story. The "Life can be cruel" part remind me of Zero time dilemas phrase "Somentimes, Life can be simply unfair". You should do that trilogy too, the way you break down stories is top tier, great video as aways.

[@Cloudxx3]

Man, your channel is such a gift. Thanks for the content, I wish you all the success going forward

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

The voice work is so god in this title the three boys un-used lines are such adorable an unsettling as frick delivery if this was ever remade just give it even more of those details

[@RisaxTheImp]

Was hoping for this video since the Haunting Ground one, mainly because I played neither one upon release (was a coward) but heard good things about both and got them confused. And as a bonus we got Dungeon Chill reading us all these fairytales in the video too! 10 outta 10 storytime.

[@rachelbehr7234]

I’m always so excited when I see you’ve uploaded another video! Keep up the great work, you always provide such an interesting perspective on the games you cover. Rule of rose has always deeply unsettled me, but at the same time I love learning more about it! The depictions of trauma/abuse are so real. Can’t wait to see what you put out next! But also take breaks if you need to!

[@Kit.Delaney]

Thank you! Loved the video. One of the most interesting and disturbing stories in any video game. One thing that always lingers with me is the parallel between the ending cutscene (where Jennifer leaves Brown in the shed to protect him) and the way Gregory locked up a child in the basement and pretended she was Joshua. There are layers of meaning there and it's both touching and unsettling.

[@VolframC]

what a rough story been watching/subscribed for a while, but i felt compelled to write a comment for this one i grew up with a PS2, but only very recently started having an interest in horror/creepy games so your channel felt like a window into a gaming journey i never got to have but this time around, with the extra jank-looking gameplay and the events/themes of the story, it just really got me to appreciate the work you put in thank you, for charting these journeys i couldn't heading to sign up for the patreon, see you in the next one

[@PonchoANS7]

Another phenomenal video. You have an uncanny ability to talk about games that I'd normally never even give a second glance, and turn them into these gripping retellings.

[@immagonnawin]

This is it, this is the definitive Rule of Rose video. This explains everything that I want explained about the game. Before playing Rule of Rose, I referred to it as a Child Abuse Simulator. After completing it, I am a complete Rule of Rose apologist. It's a masterpiece of storytelling, that is unfortunately a slog to get through. I don't think this specific story could have been told with the weight that it has in literally any other medium. Thank you for this video. I recall finding a newspaper somewhere that explained that none of the adults were in the orphanage when Stray Dog arrived, and it was some combination, I believe, of Clara quitting working there (as an older kid) and then Hoffman leaving shortly after? And something about Martha being told something mysterious was going on, calling the police and then nothing happening of it? There was a distinct piece of evidence in game that explained this, I remember finding this in that bonus orphanage chapter when you were able to run around, and I believe it was in a desk. Martha's journal I believe?? I believe that this is also explains why Clara was also a boss to fight, as she was also an "adult" who didn't do anything to help Jennifer in her situation, as she was too caught up on Hoffman's abuse. But she was just an older teenager at the orphanage that started working there, as she had no other choice. Just as you said multiple times, there are so many lore bombs that are so easy to completely miss. It's also worth mentioning that a very common way children deal with abuse (this case, specifically sexual abuse), is dissociating, and essentially projecting your consciousness to something else to "turn your brain off" to what is happening. ("If I was hiding behind the ceiling fan, this couldn't happen to me," "I would go to the castle in the books I would read," "When it would happen, I would hide behind the wallpaper," etc). It doesn't make literal sense, as the mind is strange, and the mind of a child is so inherently different than an adults. (This is also a key aspect of how Dissociative Identity Disorder [DID, previously known as Multiple Personality Disorder] can form in early childhood [The only time in one's life that the brain is capable of DID, as the mind is still developing and growing], and also how the different 'alter personalities' one could develop may be different genders or species than the actual body. "This wouldn't happen if I were a boy," "A big strong tiger would be able to escape") All of that considered, because the fish tank is in Hoffman's office, I understood in that moment that Clara was dissociating into the fish tank, "If I were a fish, I could swim away," "If I were a mermaid, I wouldn't have the body parts related to this trauma" and additionally, that was how I perceived the rope/harness that was in the Clara fight. "If I was on an airship, there would be ropes everywhere, where I could pull myself up to the ceiling and only come down when I wanted to and no one could hurt me." Though I agree that your interpretation of it is still entirely valid. Again, thank you for giving this game the attention and understanding it deserves. It's an absolute slog to experience, especially without a guide. If you are someone who wants to have played the "important" games, then please give it an honest try with a guide. But if you are content to just watch videos about "important" games, then this is the only video you need to watch.

[@NeoRena]

Not really at all definitive, he missed a LOT of stuff actually by using Brown to go along only the critical path and not exploring. I saw another one, can't remember the channel, but they went far more in depth and brought up a lot more than DC did. Like DC didn't even seem to pick up on the lead and Wendy's queerness and how struggling with that is a big part of Jennifer's journey along with the abuse by her peers and witnessing CSA and abuse by the adults that ultimately abandoned them.

[@b.c4440]

I appreciate this channel because you cover horror games in a way that is accessible. I’m really interested in horror games but can’t play or watch people play them because of PTSD. The jump scares and violence trigger my adrenaline fight or flight response to the point where I get physically ill. Your videos are phenomenal. They break down the story and vibe of the game in a way that captures the essence but doesn’t cause an adrenaline spike. I’m able to enjoy horror content again because of your videos and I’m really thankful. This is a game I’ve really wanted to learn more about but couldn’t.

[@Frostgambit606]

Nice video

[@dungeonchill]

Thank you!

[@djbidd007]

So happy to have come across this incredible video - just subbed, and about to watch the rest on this channel!

[@wadejohnston4305]

Damn dude we've been eating WELL with all these new videos.. Just don't overwork yourself man. Absolutely love your work. Edit: changed the word 'content'as it seems like a crappy way to address all the hard work you put into these videos. I mean playing through RoR TWICE with it being a notoriously rough gameplay experience is dedication to your craft dude

[@berniekatzroy]

Gotta say this is the longest and one of the best video analysis on rule of rose up there with ragnarrox. It's crazy how amazing this game could've been if it wasn't some Italian game magazine not even doing their research on the game. It's crazy too how it's a game that wasn't landlocked to Japan itself and that recent fact on a cache being found makes me think that it'll go from cult classic to demanding a reboot not holding back.

[@spicexcat]

Rule of Rose is an underrated gem, despite the wonky mechanics and shitty combat. I loved the storytelling, and the music brought me to tears multiple times. I distinctly remember picking it from a ps2 rack at Blockbuster in '06. Had to return it, but bought again years later as an adult. On that playthrough I explored a lot more. Playthroughs afterwards were much more fun. I dressed Jen in the gothic lolita dress (so cute with the loose hair) and very much enjoyed the syringe weapon 😂 This was also when I noticed there was a "use" option on Gregory's gun during the last boss, and was able to get the good ending on my own, thus leading to ugly crying. Such a beautifully sad story. I will forever love this game & Demento! Here's some cool/disturbing stuff I found during my playthrough: 1) There are 5 decorative knives from each chapter: Baron, Earl, Marquis, Viscount and Duke, Jennifer can exchange them at the gift box for a rusty sword. A rare weapon with high damage and high range. This can also be exchanged for the knight rapier, an even stronger weapon. 2) There are 4 perfumes that can be found around the airship: Spring, Summer, Winter, and Fall . 3/4 must be found before the Rag Princess Sews chapter or else you won't find the last in said chapter. Jennifer can exchange them at the gift box for the secret room key, which unlocks the hidden door @ 25:58. The room, the Prince and Princess Quarters, is the airship equivalent to the orphanage room @ 1:28:37. There, you can attain the revolver gun weapon early on. Does medium damage at high range. 3) There are 4 broken robots found in the central stairways B, C, D & in the section 13 lift Jennifer can exchange at the gift box to unlock the rag doll costume (the one Amanda's beating @ 1:17:46) . 4) In the Once Upon a Time chapter, Jennifer finds a letter in Martha's room (in the kitchen) between Martha & a policeman named Anthony Doolittle in which she reports Gregory & Wendy's strange relationship ("resembled dog training"), and expresses how she was concerned for Wendy's safety. Jennifer reveals that Hoffman left the orphanage in November, Clara and Martha soon followed. Leaving the children to fend for themselves and create the Red Crayon Aristocrats hierarchy, Diana as their leader. *Jen's insight into her character in the Once Upon a Time chapter (Cell of Solitude) was just heartbreaking. Diana did not want to grow up to be a woman, and all that came with it. Especially around Hoffman, who was already grooming her. When not a menace, she was everyone's big sister. 5) There is a drawer in the airship sick bay that likely contains evidence of Hoffman's m*lestation/SA of the children, particularly Clara. Another theory is that it is a contraceptive item or something to do with Clara's pregnancy/ab*rtion. When Jennifer tries to open the drawer, Clara rushes to close it telling Jennifer not to look. Any attempt to open afterwards, and Jennifer will refuse, shaking her head saying "no" as if afraid. The way she says it though is heartbreaking. I think whatever's in that drawer is why Clara is the frightened princess. To add to this, if you go to the sick bay during The Funeral chapter, a disturbing scene plays where Clara is cleaning next to Hoffman but her position looks like fellatio. Even without reading any theories online, it's very graphically unsettling. Thank you for uploading, your analysis was excellent! As a Rule of Rose fan I genuinely admire the details & effort ❤

[@mortefei]

oh my god thank you i did not know any of these

[@jackmangan6526]

This video is absolutely superb! Just subscribed. Fantastic work!

[@Dutchtica]

I'm glad you've never watched any of the previous videos because you go SO IN-DEPTH on the story and now I feel like I appreciate the game more (you know, despite never playing it)

[@Shady4Dayz]

This game's story always left me confused but this video finally helped me understand it almost fully. Great job!

[@RS-mu3ci]

I love your series, you show the full story of these obscure games. Even touch the history of the development. I have shared a few of your vids to a bunch of friends. So the word is spreading!

[@Guided-By-Boognish]

Wow, thank you for sharing this gem with me in such detail. The theme that really stood out to me is the nature of relationships in a world with ever-present cruelty. The unconditional love of a dog is such a powerful antithesis to the seemingly random and confusing cruelty of life. I feel that scene at the end where jennifer locks brown away is really meant to symbolize the overwhelming attachment one can feel to someone or something that they truly love. The story of greg really emphasizes this. His mind breaks in order to hold onto that love. The scene of “Joshua” leading him by the collar is another symbolic representation of greg’s enslavement to his love. Finally, the relationship between wendy and jennifer is really the prime example of this idea. Wendy leads the aristocrats because she needs a substitute for the love she received from jennifer before brown entered the picture. The structure of the aristocrats’ hierarchy provides feelings of power, deflecting her sadness, and providing moments of twisted joy when she no longer feels loved.

[@Big_Dai]

@20:12 Did you.. add the confetti and edited it so it would be behind the white in-game decorations!?

[@zombilady8633]

I have skipped videos of Rule of Rose bc the game has such an infamous reputation of being cruel and heartbreaking, but le sigh, I guess I have to watch now.. Thanks, love your long form videos!

[@dungeonchill]

I would say if you’re at all interested, try to play it yourself. It is a journey. But if you want to just watch my video, please go right ahead :)

[@zombilady8633]

@dungeonchill I'm a scaredy cat and even the original Doom is too scary for my liking 😅 have to get my horror game fix from awesome creators like you 👍

[@canaanking109]

TBH I started but never finished an infamous lets play of Rule of Rose back in the day, about 10 years ago. The game was just too slow paced for me to stay interested. Even Dungeon Chill's explanation in the first 10 minutes tempts me to click off the video and I've been subbed to this channel since like a couple hundred subs.

[@neoqwerty]

@@canaanking109 Rule of Rose is honestly best experienced as a screenshot LP with a companion cutscenes movie compilation, or (if there were any around) an all-cutscenes speedrun.

[@austinkoch280]

Such amazing content as always!

[@daltonfreeman6551]

Just found your channel and have been binging. You got some really funny edits man, and your voice is so calm and easy to listen to, which makes it extra funny when you jump into the middle of a cutscene and snap at the characters. Keep fucking going dude, you're great.

[@techatina]

This video popped up on my recommended for some reason. I watched a playthrough of this game over a decade or more ago. I thought I would be strong enough this time around to watch the ending with Brown but here I am, bawling my eyes out again, haha... Honestly though this is definitely a game that has always stuck in my mind. I'll just think about it randomly, annually. Thanks for such an in depth video about it, along with your thoughts.

[@tkbuffy]

I don’t know if I’ll watch this right now because it’s 11:42 pm and I said I would stop playing video games and go to sleep BUT I wanted to say that I’m so excited you’re covering Rule of Rose, this game is fascinating and I already know you’ll absolutely devour it

[@vggykllr]

You did it justice for sure! Hit the story beats perfectly and spared me having to play it lol.

[@willl8173]

I love this channel so much I fall asleep to it, still haven't really watched the video but it's played through 2 or 3 times already and I keep coming back

[@PeAd421]

2hour Dungeon Chill?? Yes please!! Thank you sir🙏 You are doing outstanding work 💪

[@cooljill5534]

you've made a fantastic video covering my childhood hyperfixation. teared up at work listening to this. thank you so much!

[@Eudaimonia7564]

Forever grateful I found your channel!

[@setheus]

The mirror with a crack through it, saying you can see a shape of a man- I always thought that was another hint toward abuse? Either literally- a crack in a one-way mirror, exposing the voyeur/headmaster, or metaphorically- the bathroom being a place where the headmaster ambushes girls, so they may look up and see him behind them. Either way, yipes!

[@squeethemog213]

Thank you so much for covering this. It is always awesome when you make a video. You're very thorough and do a fantastic job presenting the subject. You're awesome 🙏😃

[@buddy4696]

Where do you find such crazy games? What a story....great video!

[@davidhylton7528]

Just finished the video and wow couldn’t tell you crunched to finish this video so quickly! The quality is still there! Always interesting to watch the games you cover. I was worried in the beginning when you were so negative about the gameplay but glad to know the story was great.

[@YouToob-g7h]

I loved that! "Remember the name Joshua" paraphrasing but "remember to remember Joshua" then finally "remember how I told you to remember the name Joshua?" I was like, " oh really? No, how would I remember that name" sarcastically, then ya hit me with "well keep remembering" and I cracked up audibly at work!

[@Rice-B0wl]

Hell yeah another vid from the dungeon, I fell in love with this channel a few weeks ago straight gold my dude

[@WhereIsMySock03]

I've seen interpretation that you fight the mermaid boss because you as Jennifer are confronting your own failure to help her. You were just a child, you didn't know any better, you couldn't have, but NOW you know what happened, and you blame yourself for not helping her- hence why you're attacking her. You view your own failure to help as a direct attack. Also, I've seen the note about, her legs being tied closed as a mermaid being symbolism with her desire to protect herself, the vomiting likely because she was pregnant.

[@alexandragabitto2573]

This game hit me hard in my youth and it wasn’t until later that I realized that I was unconsciously drawn to the story’s themes of childhood trauma. To this day I have never played a game that was so brutal to experience. Its punishing gameplay and equally punishing story left me feeling lonely, disturbed, frustrated, and awed by how everything came together in the end. I’m incredibly happy that you covered it in one of your works! 🫶🏽 *SPOILERS BELOW* Some things that I wanted to add: - the person beaten up is Martha (the newspaper you find on the body that details how the adults in the orphanage “disappeared” points at this) - the bus driver at the beginning of the game is heavily implied to be Gregory - if you attempt to open a drawer in a desk in the same room as Clara, the oldest girl at the orphanage and who is your second boss battle later in the game, she stops you from doing so in order to keep the contents a secret. This act has been speculated to do with Clara’s abuse at the hands of Mr. Hoffman as there’s a scene where you witness him calling Clara over to ‘clean’ right afterwards. - Wendy’s name implies that Wendy was destined to die young due to her poor health and how she wants to play with ‘Peter Rabbit’ (aka Jennifer, each character is associated with an animal and Jennifer = 🐇 = ‘Alice in Wonderland’) like Wendy in ‘Peter Pan’ - the setting takes place during a period in between both World Wars and said event looms heavily behind all of the events that take place in the game (particularly why no one checks in on the status of the orphanage and Gregory’s mental decline) - the game was HEAVILY inspired by the 1995 film “The Little Princess”

[@matildarose]

It's also during the Great Depression. Not sure if the game developers factored this in in their setting, but a quick wiki search made me realize it was just as bad in the UK, to a degree. A pea farmer with a dying son, as well as an orphanage possibly abandoned by its staff, would have no chance.

[@witchcat3697]

That's my favorite movie and aside from orphans and a protagonist being brutally bullied I don't see the resemblance really. 🤷‍♀️

[@witchcat3697]

Also, awesome take.

[@alexandragabitto2573]

@witchcat3697 The plot is shockingly similar when you think about Gregory’s role in Jennifer’s life and the time period the game takes place in. The main character of “The Little Princess” is a young girl from a wealthy family whose father is presumed dead when he goes off to fight in the war (the Great War specifically which the game also takes place in.) She finds herself poor, without a family, and stuck amongst other children who, like you said, bully her incessantly (the adults also take part in bullying her as well.) Of course there’s a happy ending where she discovers her father is not dead, but has just lost his memory and they are eventually reunited. However, take a moment to consider the parallels between these aspects of the film and how a newly orphaned Jennifer ends up as the child of a mentally disturbed amnesiac individual who is implied to have also gone to war at one point in the game. It’s implied that something must have happened to Jennifer’s memory as well since the entire game is about her attempting to remember this period in her life. The game leaves this part very open to interpretation on purpose, but there are implications that Jennifer might have blocked out the events of the game from her mind as they happened, most likely due to the traumatic nature of her situation. In this light, the film becomes almost like a fairytale version of what Jennifer no doubt would have wanted to have had really happened to her. Imagine the ‘father’ of the main character of “The Little Princess” never getting his memories back, stayed an invalid, and abducted children from the neighborhood because he believes he’s the parent of said children. Imagine the main character of “The Little Princess” never reuniting with her father again because he was, in fact, killed during the war. Imagine Jennifer, her parents dead and forced to live with a bunch of violent strangers, wishing that her parents were still alive and any day now would come to Gregory’s house (her pseudo-father) or the orphanage to save her from the abuse she’s suffering. …I apologize for the massive wall of text, but both these pieces of media are very important to me lol 🥲

[@Zikar]

I'm not sure if you say this in the video, which I will be watching in a minute, but just replying to the video description, Rule of Rose was never banned in the UK. Some politicians got on their high-horse with a bunch of misinformation about the game and even though our rating's board gave it a rating (which means it could be legally sold) the publisher got cold feet and decided not to release it.