The Current Tesla "Magic Dock" Supercharger Experience

[@BillB33525]

Would be fabulous if Tesla would publish the Magic Dock installation schedule.

[@newscoulomb3705]

It looks like they finally are. That was really my worry with NEVI: It would delay the build out of sites until the funds started flowing. It looks like that applied to Tesla as well.

[@joedilellio3627]

Gotta admit, appreciate seeing two of my favorite YTers collaborate.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thank you! It's great having these real-time talks with Steve.

[@COSolar6419]

We recently tried a new Magic Dock location in Colorado. Initiating charging was easy enough once the Tesla app was set up. We did have to back our Ioniq 5 into a parking slot adjacent to the SC stall we used. We only got 42-44 kw. The Tesla SC were designed exclusively for Tesla EVs so it shouldn’t be too surprising that there are short comings using nonTesla EVs. Nice to have a few more charging options but currently they’re not my first choice. At the MD location we tried there are also two ChargePoint DCFC that can deliver 150-200 kw and are $0.20/kWh cheaper than the MD equipped SC.

[@GeorgeKnighton]

Proof yet again that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Definitely. I welcome all charging providers, but I'm a consumer advocate first. There's no reason to put on rose colored glasses for any charging providers at this point, including Tesla.

[@daves1646]

So, Tesla has NOT corrected SC s/w to enable use of Magic-Dock to give CONSISTENT slower charging of eGMP yet. So Magic-Dock isn’t going forward as a pan-CCS1 service? Think they’ll just push Magic-Dock off to Gen4 charger/dispensers with the longer cable as well? Nice Steve - try and collect them all. Thank you for the East + West combined perspective!!

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! I'm getting reports that some U.S. E-GMP cars are seeing the same ~100 kW on Magic Dock Superchargers as the European E-GMP cars are seeing, so it appears to be trim specific. At 100 kW, it makes these Superchargers serviceable for E-GMP, but still a little slower than the paired ChargePoint CPE 250. Tesla is still the #1 recipient of NEVI funding, so these Magic Dock sites can't be the only thing they are doing. I hope they haven't found a loophole to receive public funding for their private V3 locations, but so far, I haven't seen any V4 Superchargers deployed in the United States. As it is, it looks like Tesla cost Californians about $3 million in public fast charging infrastructure because it reneged on the deal after finding out that they would have to meet the same criteria as every other public charging provider. In the past, there was no apparatus in place for reallocating those CEC grant funds, so that money is just returned to the general fund. Let's just say, I'm not happy about it.

[@plugandplayEV]

Six months on, it's still a complete lottery as to whether Magic Dock will charge an EGMP vehicle and there's no-one to call if it doesn't work. The only thing that's certain is we're going to get sub-50kW power levels and spend an hour or more there to get to 80%. It's no surprise to me that Hyundai is pursuing other avenues rather than putting all their eggs in the Supercharger basket.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I'm really surprised that Hyundai hasn't partnered with other charging providers like ChargePoint or EVgo, though I believe a number of the Hyundai dealership chargers that have been installed are from ChargePoint. With news that Hyundai will be developing their own DC charging hardware (initially for use in the Korean domestic market), we might want to add them to the running for possible hardware providers for the recently announced "Charging Alliance."

[@thenetworkarchitectchannel]

I recently went on a four state EV road trip. Three separate times, I was charging immediately next to a person who was DCFC for the very first time who needed help. I think the increase of brand new EV owners are going to find Tesla SC locations often difficult to navigate and the promised saving grace from their inclusion in NA for non-Teslas may actually end up being more of a problematic situation vs an improvement. One guy was a Hertz employee trying to charge a Polestar at an EVgo location in Virginia. EVs were completely foreign to him. I showed him how to swipe his card on the reader. At a SC location, it would of been an additional 10-15 minutes and if people aren't there to help newbees, they would be lost, not to mention not knowing how to pull up to the short cable dispensers. Thx for the vid. I enjoyed watching.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thank you! This is one of the reasons I support charging providers following a closer payment model to gas stations. It's what people know, even if the technology and interfaces are slightly different. Interestingly, even though Tesla has mostly rejected displays and payment readers on their charging units, they are probably the only charging provider in North America that could actually support a full-time attendant at a majority of their sites. I'm not sure whether Pilot/Flying J will try to train some of their staff on the basics of activating charge, but that would be a huge value add.

[@tkmedia3866]

Saw a bolt charging today at a non magic dock location. Looks like things got turned on again.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@tkmedia3866 Interesting. The chargers still don't appear open to me in the app.

[@tkmedia3866]

@@newscoulomb3705brand app, initials, public charging, supported network Tesla shows up, activate brings up buying a adapter. Folks are spoofing cars to charge it seems with existing 3rd party adapters.

[@tkmedia3866]

Tesla app show charging locations today without spoofing.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@tkmedia3866 Yeah, my app just updated this morning. Looks like everything went live.

[@BillB33525]

Eric, hope to hear you on the new Batteries Included Friday Morning show soon.

[@brucec954]

Given that there is now federal funding going into charging stations, there needs to be an interoperability testing site to verify and approve chargers. For the railroads, to be allowed on the rail network, manufacturers take their equipment to the Federal Railroad Administration test site in Colorado and make sure it works with other makes etc.

[@Frank71]

I remember the days when the Tesla fanboys constantly attacked CCS for constantly failing. Now Tesla is experiencing the same issues, nothing is said by those same fanboys.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

That's because Tesla's don't have those problems so it's still not an issue for them

[@petesjk]

Teslas don’t have issues with Superchargers, CCS people are the only ones complaining- about every provider. Which means CCS is the problem.

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

First I have heard that Tesla superchargers aren't working right.... Interesting.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Honestly, there aren't a lot of issues, but some people refuse to acknowledge any issues with any Tesla equipment at all. Right now, the "Magic Dock" Superchargers appear to be more reliable than the old Electrify America hardware, but about on par with ChargePoint, EA, and EVgo's new hardware. To me, the biggest issues are site configuration and power limitations. V4 should address both of those, but I can't simply assume that that is the case before testing it out for myself and seeing reports from other EV owners.

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

​@@newscoulomb3705there will always be "some people", for sure.

[@markwerwath3807]

Has anyone noticed that Magic Dock has only been deployed across 12 locations across the entire country? With no expansion for many months? How serious is Tesla and how long can a pilot last? Is this really the best that can Tesla can do? There seems to be a pretty poor experience so far. Unfortunately, I have an 800V car so I am even more disappointed.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I think Tesla was hoping that enough automakers would adopt the new connector that they could still qualify for NEVI funding without having to add CCS1 plugs. If they do have to offer these Magic Dock sites in order to qualify, we should see the work continue. My biggest gripe (and why I question how serious Tesla is) is that they are only opening Magic Dock locations along routes that are already strongly supported by public charging. Why not Green River, UT or Alturas, CA? Just a few key locations would vastly improve the public charging infrastructure.

[@anthonyc8499]

Frankly, I’ve been surprised that Tesla has started opening up additional Magic Dock stations since Ford’s NACS announcement. I would have thought that the project would be abandoned and all efforts would be towards V4s.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I agree. I was thinking the same thing, except the "Magic Dock" will specifically be required in order for Tesla to qualify for NEVI funds. They might have gotten away with a limited-access network if ALL of the major automakers negotiated an access deal; however, several publicly rejected Tesla's invitation. So the only way Tesla can guarantee that they qualify for NEVI funding is if they provide all compatible EV owners with the opportunity to access those Supercharger sites. If they did that, though, they would be much better off selling Tesla to CCS1 adapters and requiring access through the app than going through the trouble of installing their own Magic Dock hardware.

[@anthonyc8499]

​@@newscoulomb3705I'm really hoping you do a plugside chat or maybe discuss with Steve the 4-part report by John Voelcker on EV charging. Part I is a fascinating story of how EA failed so bad that OEMs felt forced to go to Tesla.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@anthonyc8499 Yes, that might deserve its own response, though the article's title might only really apply to Ford. I've personally spoken with reps from automakers who said almost the same thing as what John described; however, some of those automakers openly rejected Tesla's Supercharger offer and/or joined that upcoming charging "Alliance." Even among those automakers who are fed up with EA, most are not enamored with Tesla either. In fact (and I'm sure John will cover this soon), John and I chatted about those same sources who don't want to go on record but who have been very critical of Tesla during their access negotiations. Apparently, Tesla has been less than helpful, and they've pretty much adopted a "take it or leave it" attitude. If that keeps up and other charging providers make significant headway, we could possibly see some of these automakers backing out of their Supercharger access deal. Apparently, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[@BillB33525]

I only see one new install in Dallas. Are there others?

[@anthonyc8499]

@@BillB33525 Canada

[@djy69]

Non Tesla infrastructure is ridiculous. If you want to travel long distance in this country you need the Tesla infrastructure. Until that changes, you are wasting your money on a NON Tesla. That's a hard cold fact. I love the ID 4, but i HAVE to get a Tesla as my next EV.

[@newscoulomb3705]

It really depends on where you are going, but even more importantly, what your expectations for travel are. I think people are making too big a deal of a couple of single points of failure (SPOFs) along key corridors, but the other issue is, people are hyperfocused on EA to the point that they conflate it with the public charging infrastructure. I'd even feel fully confident driving my Bolt EV across the country taking numerous different routes, and that's because those SPOFs are only an issue for cannonball runs. A moderate level of trip planning would enable bypassing them. Unfortunately, my current obligations don't allow for trips like those, but I really wish I could demonstrate them (not that people believe me when I showcase them anyway). My big criticism of Tesla's Magic Dock rollout, though, is that they are almost entirely avoiding those SPOF areas, and they are not opening those Superchargers. If Tesla wanted to, they could address most long-distance travel issues for non-Tesla EV owners by installing Magic Docks at no more than a dozen or so select Supercharger sites.

[@djy69]

@@newscoulomb3705 Tesla does not care about Non Teslas, nor should they. I drove from Akron to Vegas in my Chevy Bolt in January of 22. No issues, wouldn't dare try it now. I can't make it to Reno. It's sketchy to go to Grand Canyon. Kingman has 2 out of 4 working for over a year now. Non Tesla infrastructure is horrific. The 30,000 DCFCs that will be installed to compete with Tesla will take a while. The first doesn't open until summer of '24. So until then. Tesla owns the market and it's not even close.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@djy69 You're right. Tesla doesn't care about non-Tesla EV owners, but they do care about NEVI funding, which they can only access as a "public provider." But to your point, they can possibly get that title while still screwing over non-Tesla EV owners by withholding the most important locations, which they very well could be doing right now. As for those trips you described, I've actually driven to the Grand Canyon twice in my Bolt EV (North Rim and South Rim), and that is when I only had a 60 kWh pack and the last DC fast charger leaving California was a 50 kW unit in Victorville. Nothing in Baker. Nothing in Kingman. If EA works along those routes (e.g., Barstow, Needles, Kingman, Williams), great, but they aren't absolutely necessary. Coming from the other direction might be sketchy, but again, that's focusing solely on EA. Things really do get better when you start to consider other public networks. Yes, taking EA out of the equation entirely hurts, and it puts the remaining public charging infrastructure on par with the Supercharger network from the 2016-2018 era. Not great, with a number of gaps and no-go routes, but most of those are low-traffic corridors.

[@plugandplayEV]

I just enjoyed 8,000+ miles of summer travel across 20+ states in our IONIQ 5.... aside from one or two stations, mostly in areas with limited options, it was utterly uneventful. What's the discrepancy here? Location only?

[@djy69]

@@plugandplayEV my personal location here in Las Vegas. There's only 4 roads leaving here. My issue is getting to Medford Oregon and Houston Texas. I have to go to California to go up to Oregon because infrastructure on 95 is sketchy at best. The Tesla infrastructure would make life easier and far less stressful.

[@martinkjr3278]

Oddly seems like Electrify America deliberately delivers a poor charging experience to discourage EV adoption.

[@newscoulomb3705]

It definitely feels that way sometimes, but they've put in far too much work to simply dismiss their efforts. Also, even though EA is under VAG, which works very closely with them on charging integration, EA hasn't seemed to improve their reliability with the release of new VW EVs. If they were deliberately self-sabotaging, I would think we would have seen a clear shift in reliability the moment the ID.4 started shipping in large numbers. The fact that we haven't means their struggles are very likely genuine.

[@emmacox9506]

😂 'promo sm'