The Dark Forest Explained (Kurzgesagt- In a Nutshell | Reaction)

The Dark Forest, as explained by Kurgesagt. My thoughts, commentary & a literary recommendation.
Fermi paradox pt. 1 & 2: • Fermi Paradox (pt. 1 &...
Original video: • Why We Should NOT Look...
---Literary Recommendation:
The Dark Forest by Cixin Liu: amzn.to/3ZoB0W5
Try Audible for Audiobooks: amzn.to/3QMwv2G
Game Theory FREE Yale Course: oyc.yale.edu/economics/econ-159
Global Extinction Rates (Yale Edu): e360.yale.edu/features/global...
Extinction Rate Info(Sustainable Development Cite): interfaithsustain.com/how-man...
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[@withnosensetv]

I love that you actually discuss the video and that it shows that you're actually interested in what you're watching. This is the reaction content I'm looking for

[@delust430]

And no annoying intro. What an amazing channel

[@O_Towne_Bear]

“the mighty ships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the first planet they came across - which happened to be the Earth - where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog.” - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

[@just_gut]

The series you're referencing is the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy by Liu Cixin. It is comprised of The Three Body Problem, The Dark Forest, and Death's End. An absolutely incredible series.

[@TheSeeking2know]

Good enough to be made into a movie series?

[@liamsullivan1660]

@@TheSeeking2know better a TV show i think, better to explore concepts with more episodes

[@marcc1830]

@@liamsullivan1660 Tencent made the show and is currently airing it. 1 ep release per day. Free of charge for non members after a few days. Looks pretty faithful to the book. English subtitle (and pretty competent subtitle work) Link here: kzbin.info/aero/PLMX26aiIvX5rFSYPXtcqda3tWd6pGVD5Q Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find... 😅

[@nickseay6534]

I was getting ready to mention that too. I'm about half way through the trilogy now. Really enjoying it, but I'm having a hard time keeping up with the plot at times because I'm so unfamiliar with Chinese names. 😆🤦‍♀

[@sharojak9401]

@@TheSeeking2know Tencent recently released the last episode of their Three-Body-Problem series. It’s magnificent, accurate and stunning. 9.8/10 definite recommend.

[@sket179]

I love the Three-Body Problem book series. The only drawback is the one-dimensional female character in this second book. But they're so thought provoking and entertaining, I love them. I had the honour to meet Liu Cixin in Helsinki WorldCon75 in 2017. I voted this series but sadly it didn't win.

[@garrettramirez5381]

Just had the pleasure of reading this series. A great recommendation about the Dark forest theory.

[@MrSmokinDragon]

almost all characters in the series are one-dimensional, because it isn't about character arcs or complex interactions between characters, but about exploring scientific ideas and philosophy. Similar to earlier science-fiction of Isaac Asimov & Arthur C. Clark. I love it. The Battle In Darkness and the scene where Luo Ji reveals his Cosmic Sociology are among my top 10 favourite scenes in SciFi

[@Flastew]

I love how your videos always make me think of new possibilities that exist out there. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

[@NoProtocol]

Thanks for coming back (:

[@himarei]

One of the best way to react if we encounter an alien civilization I think would be to make ourselves look more dangerous, bigger than we actually are, while showing peaceful intentions. A lot of animals have a similar strategy when they encounter an unknown threat and it seems like a good strategy.

[@hydrohasspoken6227]

How would you do that?

[@NorwayPlanes]

very new to the channel, but already really enjoy thr videos. thank you

[@NoProtocol]

Hey, that’s lovely to read. Thanks for watching!

[@jdeamaral]

You are going to love it here

[@w3t_wlpes]

You’re growing so fast! Glad i found your channel!

[@NoProtocol]

I read that first part in my grandpas voice lol thanks for being here! I’m glad you did too

[@thanksforchoosingthespicyside7]

Damn, straight in there for the intro, now thats how ya do it, liked and subbed on the spot lol

[@kevinwheesysouthward9295]

Love your content. You do a fantastic job. Very insightful. Thanks.

Orson Card's "Ender's Game" saga is an awesome read to introduce to this concepts and the whole idea of a contact with alien civilizations.

[@spencernaugle]

I love your "Intro" style. "Hey". Starts video.

[@ravenward626]

LoL, the most successful games of poker I have played were with a guileless lack of strategy, while playing against enthusiasts working probabilities and making assumptions about things I had never even considered. I'm not sure who to quote, but the expression "Professionals are predictable - amateurs are dangerous" would apply well.

[@EdwardOfEastAnglia]

This also rings true in elements of martial arts. You see some amateur "unorthodox" fighters KOing Veteran professionals because of there wild unpredictability, I did MMA for over 5 years, and sparring with young guys or amateurs is 100% more dangerous even in technical sparring, there less controlled, wild and unpredictable. Which isn't good for technical sparring let alone hard sparring.

[@spamfilter32]

​@@EdwardOfEastAngliaactually 99 out of 100 times the amateur does something stupid and gets knocked out. But since that is what is expected people forget about it. That 1 out of 100 times the amateur does something stupid and the pro didn't expect it and gets knocked out gets remembered. But never forget that the stupid thing failed 99 times for every 1 time it worked. The amateur who got it to work that one time also can't reproduce that event either, while the pro can.

[@EdwardOfEastAnglia]

@@spamfilter32 I was talking about sparring people with unorthodox techniques who are Amateurs, this is how many of us get injured, because untrained people with low technique can't control themselves as well as seasoned Vets. Because Vets can technical spar and hold back unlike Amateurs, who are wild and have bigger egos with low technique. Notice how I Said sparring in my original comment? I could of knocked out these amateurs if I wanted to, but it's sparring, I give them some hard body shots to the liver and some leg kicks, then tell them to chill. You can't of misinterpreted what I Said that badly... All martial artists know this. Sparring not fighting. I'm not going to technical spar and hold back during a fight am I? Amateurs don't do this in sparring, they go hard, are unorthodox because of their technique level and through wild shots.

[@Valandar2]

I would strongly suggest the "Alien Scale" video from this channel. The Kardashev Scale is becoming a fixture of science fiction, and our own world slowly approaches what is considered a Category 1 on that scale.

[@NoProtocol]

Alright, I haven’t seen it yet! Thank you

[@vivaCLEAR]

Thanks for the recommendations at the end as always! Should check out their video on Loneliness, maybe not your usual video but they dive into how evolution and psychology interact which is pretty interesting.

[@Skurian_krotesk]

Kurzgesagt is a blessing and i feel incredibly appreciative fkr the ability to understand even the german version of those videos. Wonderful reaction. You are my favorite person on youtube.

[@NoProtocol]

I had no clue that they made videos in German as well! Thank you (:

[@Skurian_krotesk]

@@NoProtocol "Kurzgesagt " is a german phrase and word by word translated it means "shortly said" wich of course means "in a nutshell". Every video they make gets released in german and in english because most of the channels members are german and they are in close cooperation with another famous german science channel called "Urknall Weltall Leben" which gets hosted by famous german physikists Harald Lesch and Josef Gaßner.

[@vivaCLEAR]

@@Skurian_krotesk they actually make videos in over 5 languages. Sometimes it can take awhile for translations and editing to get finished so they don't always release the same times.

[@eckligt]

@@Skurian_krotesk It's funny, in Norwegian we have both expressions, "i et nøtteskall" and "kort sagt".

[@senker1544]

@@NoProtocol Kurzgesagt was founded in Germany by Philipp Dettmer, so it is in fact a german channel, but first started with englisch videos, so everyone can understand.

[@jillelliott8175]

Another of your brilliant, succinct reactions. Thank you Keith & Jill Australia

[@JosmaMeric]

After going through a lot of the Three Body Problem series I've come to adopt the perspective that the universe at any given point has some period of time prior to a point of unification that it is a dark forest. One of the supporting ideas is that the distance between worlds might be obscuring the presence of radio capable civilizations thus a space faring civilization might have multiple stable colonies before they are even accidentally discovered by an alien intelligence. I don't believe that a civilization's growth and development reduce it's capacity for violence, nor does it reduce the need for the tools therein. In order to exist in a world with arms races and limited resources, growth means developing sufficient faculties to negotiate treaties, valuing mercy and a capacity for true empathy (not the overused virtue signal empathy). I would say that a fully developed civilization will have many more alternatives to violence available, and excercising those options prior to hastily engaging in warfare with an force where both size and technological scope are unknown. The mere ability to create multiple colonies and potentially creating sleeper protocols for technologically resurrecting humanity after a cosmos scale cataclysm would be good examples of defenses or second strike focused capabilities that could deter a first strike reliance. Awesome vid, I'm always interested in discussing the ins and outs of strategy and the many ways in which it influences everyday life. Keep up the good work! :D

[@loremipsum-tk2pu]

I would like to recommend a video from the same channel called "The Egg". It's a bit different to the usual content as it's a short story instead of educational but nevertheless thought provoking.

[@Yggdrasil42]

The channel Quinn's Ideas has some great videos on the Dark Forest idea too. Myself I find it too depressing to think much about. It's scarily similar to how life on earth evolved.

[@spamfilter32]

It's really not. The most successful species on the planet are all cooperative species (and that includes humans).

[@kevinpascual]

Citing liu’s series on this concept is amazing

[@Majenga]

I am probably not the first to mention this but thank you for not having a 10-minute intro before actually getting to the content... very much appreciated!

[@32cityman]

You and your channel are brilliant

[@starcraftre]

The hypothesis comes first. Best I know, the first real discussion on it in a novel is in "The Killing Star" by George Zebrowski and Charles Pellegrino.

[@jdeamaral]

I cant wait until I get home to watch this! I'm at work, and 🎵"Day light come and me want to go home"🎵

[@sket179]

The third book is great as well. In Goodreads, the average ratings go up with every sequel, which I guess is rare. Death's End is ranked at 4.43, which is the 5th highest rated book I've read. Higher up are the count of Monte Cristo, some books from Expanse series, Harry Potter, Project Hail Mary and a book by Marko Kloos.

[@gazb87yorkshiresalt48]

Looking forward to another (probable) Great reaction to something I've not yet seen myself! 🙏🇬🇧✌

[@markiesmiles6777]

Great reaction, thank you 🙂

[@Nicooo]

love your reactions please react to more Kurzgesagt videos :D

[@David_C_83]

I had never heard of the dark forest concept before this but it does make a lot of sense. After watching the Fermi paradox video I couldn't help but think that the chain of events that created life here, it's like when you examine a disaster, a series of events that had to happen in a particular order at a particular time, that seem very unlikely but not impossible. It's possible there's life out there as much as it's possible there was at some point and it's gone by now, in theory space was a much more dangerous place in its beginnings so I don't discard that other civilizations or life forms have been wiped out in the same way our dinosaurs went.

[@mikicerise6250]

Liu Cixin. And definitely read the first book! It's the best one.

[@mark-nm4tc]

You should check out some of their other content, its fun & if you are into sci fi, is sometimes peppered with references/call-backs to shows & movies.

[@kristinaF54]

There's a Babylon 5 episode (A Day in the Strife) where a Berserker Probe, a small unmanned vessel, seeks out civilisations capable of answering each of its advanced scientific questions and, if the questions are answered correctly, the probe explodes in order to eliminate the potential threat that the civilisation may pose.

[@nathanv.4397]

If you're into strategy, you may have a knack for BJJ. It's fundamentally strategic-it's based on position and leverage (concentration of force), as well as surprise. It's similar to chess this way except it's not turn based. You isolate an appendage of your opponent and apply the strength of your core, back, legs, and arms into a maneuver of leverage to win. You learn techniques for each position to develop a system that evolves with practice and feedback. Input data and output data, ideally like a cpu, provided ego and pride is aside. That combined w discipline... Dayum, I see why martial arts are introduced to kids. I'm not much of a BJJ student today and I never got my blue belt. But it helped me w perspective, perceptions of self and others... Lots of cool stuff

[@madago4785]

The encounter between the earth ship and the alien and the mistrust and possible misunderstanding reminds me of the Babylon 5 television series. An earth ship meets a Minbari warship, another humanoid species and as a greeting, a form of respect, they present weapons, something like an ancient ship taking out its cannons. Humans don't interpret it very amicably and that's how the war begins, even if they end up as allies later. There are cultural issues that even occur between humans. Probably one of the most used symbols in social networks. The famous “like” gesture in the West indicates approval. However, in other countries such as Iran or Saudi Arabia Russia, Greece and some African countries it is one of the gestures used to send someone to hell, or at least to show disapproval. Nod and shake your head In Spain, as in many Western countries, we raise our heads from top to bottom to indicate "yes" and from left to right to indicate "no". In Bulgaria, Pakistan and in some parts of India, they do it the other way around: they nod to deny, and from left to right to assent. The difference between our mentality and the one they may have, not to mention the difficulty of communicating, is a whole subject. And just because they act "friendly" doesn't mean they really are. There has been the case of explorers who were, apparently, well received in primitive tribes, only to later kill them. Cases like V, alien invasion or Earth, final conflict.

[@dancampbell4732]

There's a cool academic paper called "dissolving the Fermi paradox" that makes the lack of observed life much less puzzling.

[@_Wai_Wai_]

Can you just give a general idea of this papers premise?

[@thenomad4123]

@@_Wai_Wai_ Its summary suggests basically that we know squat about how life formed and evolved so there is no reason to be surprised that we didn't find aliens. As in we don't know how likely it is for life to show up. Least the way I understand from the summary.

[@joekuz9133]

Your channel is dwarfing into something special

[@brucejuice349]

Intent is the hardest thing to judge with people

[@sixjhontongalamar979]

I got interested to game theory before and found a pdf about it online. Other than the Prisoner's dilemma, everything else went over my head. Also tried to find a good video about it on youtube, but same situation. I just recently got interested again and thinking of finding a good, digestible resource so thanks for recommending the Yale course! Anyways thinking about the dark forest concept, I agree that there's a possibility that their reasoning would be beyond ours. They may not be vile creatures, but their morals might be vastly different to ours. For books that are related to human's decision making, The 48 Laws of Power of Robert Greene is a good read. One might not accept some of the "laws" stated, but similar to the dark forest concept, it's not wrong to seek for mutual cooperation but it must be done carefully.

[@spamfilter32]

Robert Greene is a pos and is just wrong. The most successful species are all cooperative species. And the most successful human civilisations are all predicated on cooperation. Cooperation is a necessary element to technological development. Without cooperation, every new invented idea dies with its creator, and so advancement is impossible. With out mutual cooperation, we'd still be technologically pre-stone age.

[@martinmowbray4304]

I love how you’re straight into the vid. With no long boring me me intros. 👍🙂

[@seanrupe9767]

This is off topic but wanted to give you a couple of book recommendations. 1. The Scarlet Gospels by Clive Barker. I don't know if you like horror but this is by far his best since his Books of Blood series. The movies like Hell Raiser and others do his literary works no justice whatsoever. This book IMO could work as a follow up to the last Constantine film with Keanu Reeves (which I would say is a must watch when you a chance.) 2. In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts - Close Encounters with Addiction, Gabor Mate. This book will open your eyes to the true nature of addition and well thought out solutions to current treatment and how addictions effect society as a whole. I would compare his humility and compassion to this issue much like Jordan Peterson is to thoughts on self betterment.

[@spamfilter32]

Jordan Peterson has no thoughts on self improvements. He disguises his lack of knowledge by filling up pages with extraneous big words. He's a fraud, and there are much better resources out there for people looking to improve themselves. No need to uplift a fraud.

[@grizzlybear019]

I get the impression you're more intelligent than other people. Enjoying your reactions!

[@josipdol44]

Im new subscriber and im loving the way you think.

[@johnstrawb3521]

Isaac Arthur has a superb series on the Fermi Paradox for anyone without a serious science background, and which won't bore anyone with such a background.

[@raggmedia]

wow. why, just why are you reacting to my favorite sh*t. fast becoming my go-to channel 😳

[@andrewhutchinson36]

1823 was just 2 years before the Stockton and Darlington railway first used a steam powered locomotive to haul a train. The events of September 1825 on the S&D were a world first which marked the dawn of the railway age. Before 1825 the fastest you could travel was the speed of a galloping horse. By the end of the 1830s people in the UK could travel to places their parents could only dream of, and be there and back in a day.

[@andrewhutchinson36]

There is an excellent video on the Bee here now channel on the history of the Stockton and Darlington. It's well worth you reviewing, especially in the light of the upcoming bi-centenary.

[@thomasvieth578]

The Chinese tetralogy is called The Three Body Problem by Li Qian, I believe. I read it a few years ago and I like it still

[@tanimal3964]

The series is called "Remembrance of Earths Past" by Cixin Liu, The Three Body Problem is the first book. I consider it a trilogy because the 4th book is basically a fan fiction written by another author.

[@james08999]

you have a rare human talent. good listening skills lol

[@flightgangmembers]

Have you ever considered becoming a teacher you obviously have a talent of keeping people engaged 👏🏾

[@dcanngieter]

I know you said "Not videogames" but i promise you you'll love Crusaders King or a less complicated version Civ 6

[@dibaterman]

Back when I was more active in researching... let's call it a phase where I tried to be as an observer and take in as much information as possible; at times with focus at times arbitrarily: I noted the UN source as having reliability dependent on the funding source. The sources need not even be directly related to what is being funded. For example a group publishing through the UN could be primarily employed through a University that say needs more student loans approved. Suddenly a bank centered in Hong Kong is giving out a ton of loans only traceable because the schools registrar reports a spike the next semester. The semester before that group released information that a solid alternative to X is Y, and Y happens to also be a client of the same bank. Sharing a bank is an easy coincidence except that the client is also based in Hong Kong and anomaly that repeat cease to be anomaly and becomes pattern when talking about behavior. I can say for at least the three times I did research that led through or around the UN or a UN source I found that to be a normal practice. It's why I chuckle inside when I hear anyone cite a UN source.

[@chuckwilliams6261]

Our observations (The Fermi Paradox) support predictions made by the (Dark Forrest) model. That isn't just assumption and speculation, that's evidence.

[@mawhinney2.196]

You’re incredibly articulate

[@thewhat6219]

Say you were with the more technically advanced species in this scenario, how would you go about dealing with this, and what would you most consider? I honestly draw a blank, and that's before considering the factors. What's weird to me is history doesn't really have an answer for this either, and there's so much potential for things to go south, with miscommunication and uncertainty. And of course the ever present possibility that someone's lying. Peace is ideal, but not always viable, so I know there's no straightforward answer, but I'm sure there'd probably be a few strategies for a situation like this.

[@bugsby4663]

"There's always a bigger fish" - Qui-Gon Jinn (Phantom Menace)

[@ianh452]

Kurzgesagt always terrifies and astonishes myself and my daugther.

[@medicine_rx2224]

Loved your comment at 5:35. It's very startling how we ourselves don't get along, so how can we expect an alien civilization to be peaceful even with themselves? Edit: Timestamp

[@emrecer]

At the end of the The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie we see what might have been in another perspective.

[@BrastenSager]

The Rememberance of Earth's Past series was such a crazy ride.

[@NoProtocol]

Watching this video had me wanting to finally get around to finishing it

[@tanimal3964]

@@NoProtocol The last book, Death's End, left me stunned for couple days after blowing my mind. Definitely go read it.

[@GregRodgers1]

I am in Australia and can think of two animals that people thought were extinct. One was a type of insect that lived only in a group of rocks in the ocean that reappeared after not being seen on these rocks for a few years. Another was a frog that was thought to have gone extinct in the 1950s or 60s. A few of them were found by accident in a forest.

[@madmax2622]

I can also greatly recommend the channel melodysheep, especially his Life Beyond series is really intriguing

[@Simplicity4711]

I really like your expressiveness in words and mimic. It's refreshing to listen to a smart and attractive individual like you. 🫀

[@JKR9488]

Just because they shoot first doesn't mean we won't shoot back meaning mutually assured destruction, so from that alone conflict on a galatic scale may not happen.

[@gwaptiva]

According to the encyclopedia-that-everyone-can-edit, astronomer David Brin developed the argument in 1983, which has since bcome called "the dark forest theory" due to its use in Ciu Lixin's book of that title

[@Lycantthrope]

I'm starting to fall in love

[@jollyroger822]

John Michael Godier has made many videos on possible answers to the Fermi paradox and like subject matter that goes into a little more depth into the subject.

[@socket_error1000]

I have an issue with the Dark Forest hypothesis because it assumes that everyone would be xenophobic and expansionist as well as assuming Intelligent Technological Life would be plentiful. The idea of a "Great Filter" is often thought of as singular, some great event or barrier to life that we have yet to come up against that is wiping everything out, like the Dark Forest Hypotheses. The reality is most probably that Intelligent Technological Life requires a series of rare events to fall into place for it to happen. Meaning that it is like winning a great cosmic lottery, with hundreds of thousands of rare events that all need to fall in line for a species like us to arise. We already know that stable stars are rare and planets capable of supporting life are even rarer. Add the need for a nearby kilonova to seed the protostar with heavy metals (needed for high technology) and we find not a Dark Forest but a mostly Empty Forest. Intelligent technological life is not the end game of a natural cycle for multicellular life evolving on a planet. It is the result of a star system that repeatedly wins small cosmic lotteries that we have just taken for granted.

[@kaisplaylist549]

The Points youre making against the darf forest theory Dont hold Up i think. I think the trilogy of liu cixin expains the concept way better tho. Infinite chains of doubts between the two Meeting Partys make their believes and ideologies meaningless sind No Side can be Sure of the Others and If the Others Side ist Sure of yours and so on which goes in an Infinite Loop (cant explain it in english xD) also No Matter how empty the universe seems, Life Grows exponentualy. Exponetual functions are the deamon of Math because No Matter how much space there is it will ne eaten Up pretty quickly if a certain technological Level ist reached by a civilisation. Also the technological Level and the unlikelyhood of one reaching a High Level is irrelevant. Once you Spot Life the fact that there is a Chance that they could Develop intelegence and Technologie is existent. So taking No Action to exterminate it will in a cosmic timeframe surely mean that there is at least a Chance to evolve Info a threat and would Break the First Axiom of the Cosmo sociology 😂 you should really ready the trisolaris trilogy by LIU cixin If youre interested in that kinda Stuff and are mit afraid of hard sci fi :D after that youll Most probably ne a believer aswell 😂

[@socket_error1000]

@@kaisplaylist549 I have read the series. I enjoyed it but don't agree with many of the assumptions made. We know more about the makeup of the galaxy and the stars and what it takes to create a valid planet capable of producing technological life now then when those books were written. Those factors alone are very rare and when you factor in the last point I made, it is actually the biggest argument against the idea that intelligent technological life is plentiful. Intelligence itself is not the dominant course of natural development. Large brains rarely evolve and unless there is cause to think nature operates on different rules elsewhere in the universe then it stands to reason to think that the rare cases where large brains do arise are going to be far apart, both in distance and time. Intelligence is actually not very useful in the course of natural evolution. Large brains are calorically expensive so they have little use as a random mutation. It takes a unique set of circumstances for large brains and intelligence to become a beneficial mutation that outweighs the benefit of other less costly mutations like physical survival or mating adaptations. For intelligence to evolve it has to start at the right time, in a creature able to make use of it to both survive, and breed more than any others from the same general ecological niche. The best environment for this to happen is a rapidly changing environment that allows for intelligence and innovation to outshine in the short term faster than random mutations can. Much like artificial mutations like clothing, tools, weapons, and shelter for our early human ancestors overpowered environmental changes and allowed for their continued survival and proliferation in an environment that would otherwise eliminate a normal slowly evolving species because of an inability to physically adapt in the rapidly changing environment. This path of cheating nature through technological innovation is how intelligence became a concentrated trait in humanity. Intelligence and technological development is an unnatural, but overall faster, way for a species to gain artificial adaptations that nature would take thousands, and potentially millions of years of natural selection to otherwise provide. The same basic premise would result in intelligence and technological species on other worlds. The issue is that these conditions require not just a species to arise with a large brain mutation, but also dexterity to make use of technology in its environment, and the an environment that changes fast enough to promote intelligence as a benefit over other traits. So the reality is there is likely to be only one or two intelligent technological species at a time in any given galaxy. I am not saying that there isn't a xenophobic species out there looking to destroy anyone they encounter at first contact. I am saying the odds of that greatly reduce when there are less of us around. The less we hear and the more we come to realize that we are mostly alone, the more valuable contact with any other species is going to be. Too many factors make us uncompatible and any reason to cause harm to each other is the folly of science fiction. Resources are plentiful of our planet. The same would be true for others. Distances are also great making face to face contact rare, if not nearly impossible. The first intelligent aliens we are likely to meet will be other humans who left Earth to colonize the stars when we finally take that leap. Only to be encountered again a quarter of a million years from now and completely alien to what we are at the time.

[@louishermann7676]

@@socket_error1000 "it assumes that everyone would be xenophobic and expansionist" No, the theory doesn't require uniformity of thought or action on the part of all extraterrestrial civilization, just that one exists among the darkness who is will to put anyone they discover in their sights and fire. To your second comment, you aren't wrong, but the reasoning for the silence is circular to the theory. Is the forest dark because no one's there, or is it dark because everyone is hiding? I don't think the apparent absence of life in the universe is any kind of counter to the theory on its own.

[@MrSmokinDragon]

@@louishermann7676 Exactly. The Chain of Suspicion doesn't require xenophobia of all extraterrestrials, just the existance of some with this trait.

[@spamfilter32]

​@@louishermann7676I can tell you with absolute certainty that the forest isn't dark because everyone is hiding. Why? Because in space, hiding is impossible. Planets with life produce biosignaturrs that can be seen by any civilization with telescopes capable of seeing them, even out to far distant galaxies. And technological species are putting technosignatures long before they are capable of sending radio broadcasts out into space. Any alien civilisation within 150 light years of us that points a telescope at Sol while our planet is in transit will know that there is technology on Earth. All withnout being able to detect our radio broadcasts over the background noise. Hiding is impossible.

[@user-tt4jz3tm6t]

I read a lot and the trilogy by Liu Cixin is probably the best stories I've ever read, from any genre. If you get a chance to read do so, it'll blow your mind.

[@user-tt4jz3tm6t]

oh, I've seen you've already read it, nice!

[@tanxyrogue847]

The video that would provide a view of what would if we were the first civilisation in this galaxy is a video titled: Firstborn by Isaac Arthur. Though it is a bit long

[@TheImpaler87]

The Three Body Problem by Liu Cixin was supposed to be adapted to Netflix, but one of the producers was poisoned and the project is now delayed or cancelled.

[@_Wai_Wai_]

One thing about the dark forest hypothesis is that it assumes none of the civilizations have faster than light travel. Even if that is true, is it possible that advanced civilizations have faster than light communications? With just that kind of technology, an Early warning is possible, as to the intentions of the alien civilization.

[@1Fracino]

Hiya, about a decade ago a Lady (whose name I cannot bloody remember or find a link to), came up with the concept/realisation of Fast, Deadly Aliens or Fast Arriving Aliens. From how this Lady explained the situation, either we get very busy very quickly or we face the prospect of having the Earth blasted apart underneath us. Cannot find her name on the net anywhere, so I guess she never got the credit. Now that is not fair at all :/

[@jmuench420]

The problem with the idea that there's a peaceful, purely altruistic "council of species" or something like that is is that it'd only take one successful and aggressive species to ruin everything for everyone. Being passive and losing your technological edge is not advisable for long term survival, even if you have peaceful intentions. I think "Speak softly and carry a big stick" will remain relevant far into the future.

[@smokeythebear1633]

You should read the book series, I think someone like you would get a lot out of it.

[@jasonnchuleft894]

Even if we were the first intelligent civilization to venture into the stars that wouldn't necessarily mean we're out of the dark forest. It just puts us at a fleeting disadvantage. More than likely this would just make us the big bully on the block who accidently (on purpose) wipes out other proto-intelligent life. We might even someday be wiped out in retaliation for something we didn't even know someone of our species did. Or the species that evolve from us might someday try to displace us, after all the dark forest theory isn't limited to alien life.

[@speedy01247]

This reminds me of the new Stellaris DLC where a planet in the solar system blows up and your people split into two groups one that fears more strikes and moves to a second planet and another that stays believing it's not some attack. In the end it turns out the first group is right but the group that did it are so technologically behind and also apologetic of what happened, but that your home world is also targeted and will be hit if you don't act to stop it. (The weapons were fired hundreds of years ago and the species warred with itself propelling it backwards techwise)

[@mgjkoehler]

The Three Body Problem books were frightening.

[@traian2041]

As a short story try: Expedition to Earth - Author: Arthur C. Clarke

[@cherryontop5903]

6:40 matpat has been summoned

[@fyfoh]

There's a sci fi book series that specifically deals with this, Old Man's War. When people reach a certain age, they can elect to join an expeditionary force or to die naturally. Only upon joining do the volunteers find out that they will have their consciousness transferred to a genetically engineered body, and their mission is to conduct first strikes on other habitable worlds to make way for colonization. I'm not a fan of Ender's Game or Three Body Problem.

[@fenrirsilver6441]

While his videoes tend to be on the longer side, and so maybe it doesn't fit into your channel, but that isn't for me to decide. When it comes to space stuff, I highly recommend Isaac Arthur, he makes some pretty good videoes.

[@karl-erikmumler9820]

If you like this you should read "The Three Body Problem". It's pretty hard science fiction based exactly on this concept.

[@bswantner2]

If you knew there was a galactic rival, given the DF principle, maybe planet hopping and improving tech with new resources and science enroute, might be the most pragmatic plan.

[@Shads62]

OMG you need to read The Three-Body Problem trilogy by Cixin Liu.

[@jrwalker591]

From a Universal perspective the Earth is a micro moving target, in a moving target (solar system) in a moving target (Milky Way), in a moving target (the Universe). Hence, if we have/are or have ever been visited, the first question should be "How did you find us", by the time they can answer where we can comprehend, we should be friends by then, it will take centuries... lol

[@dyoung3536]

We usually would prefer wars on foreign soil. In this scenario, it would be advantageous to have it occur on our planet as we'd have the more advanced tech (possibly) while theirs gained obsolescence during travel. Quantum travel would really be the only alternative that eliminates this.

[@Gabriele_Oliva]

Can I ask what do you have studied?

[@eckligt]

Alien or human, we're all thankful that these videos don't have an intro.

[@vast634]

So as a pre-emptive measure we should build large robotic spaceships, that get send out to observe and limit possible advanced species on other planets.

[@audiblek]

I can't help but question the Dark forest theory. There would definitely be attempts to communicate using relay point or something to hide the origin. I'd rather imagine that the reason we haven't seen any alien civilizations is because there is some reason every other civilization advanced enough to communicate with us is also advanced enough to see that the milky way is a really really bad place to be and chose to gtfo. Perhaps the fact that the milky way is in a cosmic supervoid or the great attractor is actually something really really bad. It's a shame that we just so happen to be on the wrong side of the galaxy... or maybe that's the only reason humans haven't gone extinct yet :)

[@noledelgado8111]

My thoughts on this is that, what if aliens are monitoring and observing us? So in that sense the aliens will likely have a clue about our attitude if they encounter us.

[@MrMrgetbad]

Try the three body problem mathematical and the fictional series

[@EvieDoesYouTube]

Maybe civilizations only become radio-loud for a very short time. Our long range radio noise peaked around 1990 with VHF and UHF broadcasts, and since then we've been getting more quiet as we've begun to move into much shorter-range and more directional microwavelengths for our communications. We still use VHF and UHF of course, but nowhere near as much as we once did.

[@tobyadowye5537]

Maybe you have already but I'd love to see you react to lemminos videos

[@McKavian]

It's said that 99% of all life/species that have/has existed is already extinct. I am not nihilistic enough to say "What's a few more?" But it is another perspective to think about. About how life waxes and wains through the geological ages. That being said, we are not in the dark forrest as the video suggests. With our current tech, our 'hunter' barely has his feet on the floor, getting out of bed. We have a LONG way to go. Conversely, it was -what? - 60 years between the flight at Kittyhawk and landing on the moon.

[@ajivins1]

I think it was Stephen Hawking who said something along the lines of 'The arrival of 'newcomers' rarely works out well for the indigenous peoples, just look at our planet's past attempts at colonisation'.

[@spamfilter32]

The name for the hypothesis comes from the book, but the actual hypothesis itself is much older.

[@jamescheddar4896]

So any credible theories about interstellar travel involve a ship the size of Jupiter that can get whole % of the speed of light by swinging off the sun. it can get a whole 13% if we point the first shot at a binary blackhole system. very likely you only do that to escape a drained solar system, so the issue would be that they're indifferent to us and need add mass to their starship

[@tommypiffington3374]

What about Risk?

[@soopi2031]

Read Irvings book Hitlers War. It is probably the best one on WW2. Just referencing to another vid you reacted to about WW2. Anyway, cheers love your knowledge and lexicon