The Dark Side of Undertale's SOULs

[@AJotasticGamer]

"Remember Frisk you are the ball game" -Sans Undertale

[@DONT-KNOW-MYSELF]

"Human I remember your THE BALL GAME"

[@Ivy64_]

Ball guy from Pokemon

[@oxanis]

​@@DONT-KNOW-MYSELF its not real its not real get out of my head getoutofmyheadhelp

[@Arcana_zero_studios]

This sounds like it was meant to be some really deep baseball metaphor.

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

​@@DONT-KNOW-MYSELF human I remember you are ball game

[@Bonkus..]

Kindness: death is a preferrable alternative to this imprisonment, is it not? Integrity: I am racist

[@ius_0]

🤣🤣🤣

[@CombustableLemon]

isn't chujin racist tho?

[@DavTheGl1tchy0ne]

​@@CombustableLemonBut Chujin experimented and even injected Integrity in himself... IT ALL COMES TO PLACE

[@osamaalk3477]

​​@@CombustableLemonif your knowledge and experience with the other race only consist of them being racist, being racist back at them doesn't sound that bad tbh

[@CombustableLemon]

@@osamaalk3477 integrity didn't even be racist, they likely only attacked dalv and thats because..what else would you do if you saw a vampire?

[@HalfBreadChaos]

8:20 Flowey arguably shows us an even darker side of kindness. (Fitting given he uses a lot of green...) You can use Kindness to lull someone into a false sense of security, or to trick them into feeling they are in your debt. A lot of players who end up falling for Flowey's 'tutorial npc' shtick, early in the game, do so because he's acting kind. This can also cause them to distrust Toriel, since she also treats Frisk with sudden, unexpected, unexplained kindness. "Love Bombing" is one of the most unsettling tactics a manipulator can use, because it's easy to brace yourself against an attack, but it's very hard to brace to defend yourself against kindness.

[@craftman_yt]

True. I mean, the character that was killed the most (accidentally) IS Toriel. And that distrust lures you into the trap of Flowey guilt tripping you after the fight.

[@Saelendious]

Oh my god its the real SliceToastHavoc

[@lilacpenguin5329]

its really cool seeing theorists interact :')

[@A59ri]

wowza its the bread man

[@softpaw6234]

I like this one a lot more; the reason given in the video is more of an internal justification than an external character trait

[@HalfBreadChaos]

It is weirdly reassuring to me that even a skilled speedrunner, struggles to get the red flag.

[@TheRatLiker]

Insert a boring comment here about how this is HalfBreadChaos, the popular and very cool undertale youtuber.

[@Footy_skelengton]

1/2 🥖

[@Osgler]

Half bread jumpscare

[@chaoscasserole5990]

-hey wait I just saw a different HalfBreadChaos comment is this comment from the time travelling broom wielding HalfBreadChaos?-

[@Ly-jm2vx]

Plot twist: he has a grayscale filter on

[@Comfnani]

Another way kindness could be seen as evil would be killing everybody so they don’t have to suffer underground anymore. That would be considered a “kindness” to the monsters

[@starmaker75]

Or it could something like a "cruel mercy" where the monster are in pain and are slowly dying from the wounds, but you did spare them and technically didn't directly kill them

[@TheSoulCalledZuzia]

yeah thought of exactly the same thing

[@paolaplana5957]

i was gonna comment that lol

[@soogus55]

Everhood:

[@Jarack25]

So a reverse Undyne. Undyne shows kindness to monsterkind by trying to free them and let them have better lives on the surface, but she would need to kill Frisk in the process.

[@2_leaf_clover]

Shayy:" *Perserverence can show the most evil in people despite being imprisoned, impaled, they do not stop for anything because of their own disgusting trait to perservere despite knowing how horrid their acts are.* Plankton-"

[@ShayyTV]

the ender dragon-

[@Кустарус]

Ah yes, MatPat without a context

[@MrHAH-cd9ku]

It's also purple. 5 children, 0 found

[@PetUalty]

what about team rocket, and other cartoon villains

[@Topps56]

If red soul can mean whatever the player's like, then I am "Ball Game"

[@TheUndeniablyPowerfulH]

i am the provider of balls

[@Cowboy_Roomba-621-sarabande]

The yellow soul is justice, the orange soul is bravery, the cyan soul is patience, the blue soul is integrity, the green soul is kindness, the purple soul is perseverance … And the red soul is… fuck it we ball

[@ryanrg1545]

Maybe the ball game was the friends we have made along the way...

[@existenceispain_geekthesiren]

unnecessarily difficult and makes everyone who plays it frustrated?

[@CharaDreemurr_Undertale]

yo its henry stickmin

[@Reginald_Ritmo]

I personally see the Red Soul being the trait "Love", and that *still* fits this. The bright use is Frisk being loving to Monsterkind, and giving them mercy. However, the dark side of Love is loving Undertale's characters as *toys* . It's playing the game over and over again, killing, spareing, trapping the underground in an endless loop, just because you "love" the monsters.

[@kitcringe]

Although I prefer the idea that the red soul is the soul of freedom, this is also a good interpretation

[@maila319]

Also you gain LOVE during genocide and neutral.

[@FluffFool]

​@@maila319 Thanks, Mr. Obvious (joke, no hate intended, have a good day.)

[@maila319]

@@FluffFool ok 🆒

[@ediblepencil494]

ngl i prefer this as the negative version of love instead of the in-universe statistic LOVE. it's more interesting.

[@EvilMC10]

8:11 quote from undyne: “killing you now is an act of mercy!”

[@MortarlWolf]

YO THAT MATCHES PERFECTLY IF YOU SEE WHAT SOUL COLOUR IS USED IN HER BATTLE!!!!

[@pinkbat.]

well if you noticed many of the bosses that change the soul color have the dark personalities it represents. for example Muffet, she seems to have enough perseverance to do something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success /torture you so next time you give her money :3 Edit: and when she does achieve what she wants she spares you

[@TiredAfTiger]

Adding to this: Muffet literally causes the genocide to continue, since Alphys left the evacuation route open for her but she refused just to make more money. Or something like that, I don't remember, take it with a giant grain of salt.

[@xxhiroyukixx4833]

​@@TiredAfTiger No, that's how it went down. Papyrus decided to give the human a second chance, Muffet was greedy, Mettaton and Sans got cocky, and Asgore was a coward. They all aided the human in completing their run.

[@fedethegreat88]

​@@xxhiroyukixx4833How did Sans get cocky? The only thing I could think of is him not fighting you earlier, but otherwise then it's just not really cockiness. You killed everyone else, and you will kill the king. What does he have to lose? It's not like the path would've been closed if he weren't there...

[@Frisk133.]

Imagine a kindness genocide route being like "all the monsters are suffering they should be vanished to get them out of their suffering"

[@squirlis1189]

It could be called the "euthanasia route" just like undertale yellow's genocide is called the "vengeance route".

[@FriendsWeMade]

I don't know why people think the red SOUL is Determination when it's clearly shown to be Ball Game.

[@thetomas1]

Underated joke.

[@thetomas1]

@RylishZaliou12 🤓🤓🤓

[@kx7500]

@RylishZaliou12that’s not an argument. The point is that determination defines them.

[@aloe7794]

Does that mean that every Genocide text on save stars is now "The Ball Game." menacingly, in red text?

[@FriendsWeMade]

@@aloe7794 Red? Also no. It would say "Ball Game."

[@Alex_192.]

The fact that the blue soul uses a toy knife proves it represents patience because it would require a lot of patience to kill someone with a toy knife

[@june9914]

counterpoint, humans are much stronger than monsters, killing a monster with a toy knife doesnt sound that hard. Also frisk can beat a frog two death in 2 hits with a stick

[@Alex_192.]

@@june9914 kill undyne with a toy knife.

[@june9914]

@@Alex_192. unsurprisingly 1 of the most determined monsters in the underground is hard two kill

[@OrchinX]

Kris turns this exact shade of cyan in the dark world, is able to conjure a knife out of thin air, and is known for being very quiet and passive before the player is given control.

[@Alex_192.]

@june9914 then kill Mettaton NEO with the toy knife.

[@monotonekai1502]

9:36 Actually, if you want to compare the routes to the SOULs, you could argue the Undertale Genocide route is the best example for a darker side of Perserverance. It's continuing on the same path, slaughtering all the monsters, even though there is no visible benefit, just continuing for the SAKE of continuing. Perserverance. I know something along these lines is mentioned at the Determination segment, but the point stands.

[@Midtier_Fortune]

7:03 makes me think that a patience soul genocide route would involve stirring up conflict between monsters so they fight and then killing them when they're weak

[@sonilan4164]

I didn’t quite get what you were saying but with what Undertale and Yellow did, I think a Patience Genocide would be mainly like the Toriel footage in the video, so that the cyan soul is too weak to fight monsters, so it gains the monsters faith, and when they are ready to end the fight by sparing, the human just betray them right after

[@Beathernial.galiam]

​@@sonilan4164Genius. That's exactly what I did through out the game. gained their trust and BAM betrayal

[@IlovedeltaruneII]

For kindness, I also saw online that the genocide route would be them thinking the monsters being dead is the best for monsters, thus showing “kindness” Also, after a while, the FIGHT button instead is replaced with the MERCY button. But that’s just what I saw, and I thought it was cool! Edit: 700 likes?!? Not to be annoying or anything, but this is my most liked comment! Thanks!

[@SilverFoxeGames]

That sounds like a really cool idea, replacing the fight button with mercy

[@arcticfluffyfoxy]

dang that would be a cool AU Don't mind me just taking this idea to write it down... actually wait no we could work on this!!!

[@liv.H5174]

Chilling… I love it!

[@Bonkus..]

*SPARE them from this life

[@simplyjustmono]

it would also be cool to have a final boss that opposes this side of kindness, just like how martlets justice clashes with clovers justice in the genocide route of undertale yellow

[@EchoC4]

“There was once a very famous painter in Germany” -Enby frog talking about a 2015 indie role playing game made by Toby Fox

[@theultimatederp3288]

Austria: *Whistles innocently*

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

Seven nuclear missiles.

[@maxuni6651]

The game in question was given to a Pope by a man who once argued that Mario is faster than Sonic and counted toes of animatronic mascots.

[@yamommy404]

​@@theultimatederp3288casually causes two wars in the span of 25 years

[@Cl3m0ntine]

The successors of Matpat in saying the most random shit in a video and making it make so much sense

[@pierocaramelli1493]

Each of these virtues could be corrupted into a vice: Patience - Lazyness Bravery - Recklessness Inegrity - Dogmatism and rigidity Perseverance - Complacency Kindness - Naivety Justice - Revenge Determination - Stubbornness

[@nategwright]

@DarkLordsServantI’ve seen it characterized as Obsession, which I feel encapsulates it perfectly. You are so determined to see it through that it becomes your sole focus, whether or not it’s the right thing to do.

[@Mudkip_lieker13]

🐶

[@qwertydavid8070]

Yup, I feel like this is a much better interpretation of the "dark sides" of the souls rather than assuming that all the souls would commit genocide in the name of their virtues. The double-nature of kindness is I feel going to be a big theme in deltarune. This is something that ralsei expresses in the first game as they fight the chaos king : "I thought we could solve things by just being nice to everyone, but I was wrong".

[@doodlederp2546]

Reminds me of anti souls, yet in a more lightening way.

[@T0B3573R]

The Patience soul stays in the same room, killing every monster they have to come across, because they are simply lazy and don’t want to progress, even at the expense of others. Waiting for the right moment to strike. Bravery’s justification would be that they want to challenge themselves by attacking every monster they come across. They say that speaking out, even if it hurts others, they still use the word “Bravery” as a term to describe their actions. Integrity could be how they listen to their heart, their morals, even if they have vileness, and wickedness. Killing every monster unapologetically, because they feel as though their heart is telling them it’s what they should do, without question. Perseverance would be probably the idea that if you kill every monster, not only will your skills become better, but you yourself are eradicating every single threat to your victory. What I see as Kindness’s most fundamental principle is to do things for the greater good of others if it means that your quality of life will be deterred in the process, so I assume that the green soul wanted monsters to stop suffering in the underground, so they tried to silence every monster they came across in order to end all their suffering, permanently. And for the yellow soul, we saw how Clover’s twisted sense of Justice was getting revenge on monsterkind for the murder of five separate humans, which works well in this context I guess. And for Frisk, we got to see it ourselves. Determination is to never give up, no matter what you face, no matter how stupidly difficult it may seem, you refuse to give up. To see every last thing, for no reason other than wanting to. I guess, that’s why we manipulated Frisk to kill every monster, and their Determination, combined with the players, is what eventually brought Chara back from death. And then Chara took control of the soul, and yadda yadda yadda you get the idea.

[@StarrVanny]

I think Frisk’s soul is just the culmination of all soul traits. In Papyrus and Sans’ boss battles, your soul becomes blue, in Undyne’s battle your soul becomes green, in Mettaton’s battle your soul becomes yellow. And doing the ball game perfectly (= using all the traits) gives you a red flag. Maybe it could just be the ability to adapt to every situation, which would actually be interesting since it would fit with what you said about the player’s soul having no confirmed ability, because it just represents the player. In other words, it ADAPTS to what the player wants it to be.

[@narrativeless404]

Except it's the Monsters changing your soul modes, not you doing that to adapt They just use their magic

[@StarrVanny]

@@narrativeless404 That’s true, what I wrote was more of a half-baked idea. I’ll think more about it, thank you for the input!

[@narrativeless404]

@@StarrVanny np

[@rodrigoreismarinho9552]

So the red soul is the friends we made along the way? Hehehe

[@narrativeless404]

@@rodrigoreismarinho9552 XDDD Nice one 👍

[@aidan6075]

8:07 I think Undyne says that "Killing you now is my act of MERCY!" when you try to spare her. So yeah, that checks out.

[@maila319]

Not to mention Kindness is the soul mode used during her fight.

[@ctaplliekjiacchuk6478]

Undyne is light side of the orange soul, JUDGEMENT, not KINDNESS

[@Mr_questionman]

​​​@@ctaplliekjiacchuk6478 she literally says that she is kind enough to put you out of your misery A.K.A. A dark side of kindness but still kindness judgement like minos prime and judgement bird

[@havesomecarrots]

the section about kindness reminded me of the different interpretations Gerson gives of the delta rune. an "angel" coming to free the monsters from the underground, or an "angel of death" coming to "free" them from the pain of life

[@pideperdonus2]

There is an undertale au with like 50 souls.

[@Senkerly_senkerson]

Which au

[@phoenixablaze649]

I have an oc with the soul of Intuition, it's kinda a minty color

[@pideperdonus2]

@@Senkerly_senkersonUnderfail or something. I don't remember the name.

[@walkonwarmsands]

Yo check out my card collection

[@Nativah._.]

​​​@@pideperdonus2wait the one where the Frisk equivalent (iirc they're not named Frisk in Underfail?) keeps getting stuck on the spike maze trap cuz toriel isn't there??

[@Dorked]

HAHAHA. That brief cut of Writing on the Wall's thumbnail was really funny as a bit. I also like the observation of the red soul's open-endedness being so the player can imagine what it means. All that being said, you've brought up some very fascinating points about the negative aspects of the other traits. It's always fun to see positive traits spun on their head.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

DORKED JUMPSCARE

[@lilacpenguin5329]

happy to see you here

[@MikeJoe-jy5kp]

Hi

[@MikeJoe-jy5kp]

Mandatory reference

[@SoftwareLearningify]

For kindness, another example would be acting kind in order to manipulate someone

[@RALSYEON]

Ooh that's interesting😲

[@jsdbnc]

I'd personally say that instead of manipulation, it could also involve twisted mercy, by excecuting and an individual in an act of kindness or mercy to end their suffering. And manipulation is a good take too, and could be hand by hand as manipulating someone to do something can be an act of kindness just to change something they haven't noticed yet. And yes, that sounds weird since it's true kindness, but we all know manipulation is not a good thing, so.. There.

[@SoftwareLearningify]

@@jsdbnc that definitely works too, that one kind of works like justice’s twisted version, while mine kind of has the same thought process as twisted determination

[@bazukata3734]

This is more like patience

[@SoftwareLearningify]

@@bazukata3734 I guess, but with patience you’re taking time waiting for a weak moment, but with this version of kindness, you use your kindness to your advantage

[@GreenNinja-qz5ti]

Bravery, rush your enemy’s down. Justice, you give those agents you their retribution. Kindness, put them out of their misery. Patience, wait till the perfect moment to strike. Integrity. Stop everyone from harming someone again. Perseverance. Over come their strength no matter what.

[@Yourhandleisntavailable]

What is determination then?

[@GreenNinja-qz5ti]

@@Yourhandleisntavailableperseverance with a different color code

[@kerran4550]

I call Red SOUL Love, and it’s darker side is Wring out every content and dialogue the world has to offer you.

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@kerran4550 This is my headcanon. People do the geno run because they LOVE Undertale. Plain and simple. You did the other two paths, saw everything they had to offer, and you want more. There's a third route you can play with more dialogue, character interactions, gameplay, music, flavour text, lore etc. So you play it. Because you LOVE the game.

[@SansLuvzKetchup14YT]

0:00 is the beginning of the video for those who were wondering Your welcome everyone, thank you thank you *bows*

[@Skye-Storm]

Nah no way! I didn't know what was the start of the video!! Thanks!

[@Charkswood]

Phew almost watched the ending

[@randomdudeiminternet]

Damn thank you. I was searching for that part.

[@no1shinjirofan]

Thank you lil bro

[@eskibileyci198]

oh yeah bro thats right

[@TheMind129]

I really like what Omega flowey said in Undertale Yellow's neutral route. "You know, some say yellow is the color of justice. Close, but that's not the word I would choose ... Yellow is the color of judgment. Consequence ... "

[@menialbee]

quite possibly the most engaging gameplay footage of any shayy video

[@its_dark_girl9811]

this is also a tip i saw for writing: a character's greatest strength is their biggest weakness. confidence turns to arrogance, loyalty turns to stubbornness, practical turns to uncaring, and the list could go on forever. every trait has its highs and its lows

[@thisbox]

Speaking of the Red Soul. There's a whole question about how canon the idea of Determination = Red Soul really is, especially when considering Deltarune exists. While it does make sense for the constant motif of determination being what the red soul, that's never been officially said, just a common head canon. It would make for a fun video to go into alternative interpretations of what the Red Soul could otherwise be.

[@Vakothu]

It's actually basically confirmed that red is /not/ Determination. The word Determination is never written in red in the entire game, the only time the word Determination has any colour at all is in the True Lab, and it's written in gold, the exact same shade of gold as Save Points and Flowey. We don't know what Red is, but it's not determination. My bet is on Love, because a direct quote from Undyne in one of her calls is: * But isn't love supposed to be FIERY RED!? * Like a cartoony human-heart?

[@AJotasticGamer]

​@@Vakothu Love makes sense for Pacfist obviously I have no objections there but how does love work in the case for the genocide route?

[@godminnette2]

@@AJotasticGamer Love of power? Thus Megalovania? I know the song pre-dates undertale, but... it makes a lot of sense.

[@spritepepsiplushes8353]

@@AJotasticGamer LOVE

[@Vakothu]

@@AJotasticGamer Damned if I know, my best bet is entirely based on the fact in the Judgement Hall sans says Level Of Violence in a very similar red to the player's soul, and that would also /technically/ be a LOVE soul. Or maybe it's just a love of killing or a love of power instead of a love of people.

[@bemmenmemmen1086]

Ah yes the seven human souls: Frisk, Clover, Toy Knife Enthusiast, Thanos, Twitter User, Plankton, and The Joker

[@KeebeThePlush]

Oh yes, the red soul frisk uses is “Ball game”

[@gmailaccount1233]

If they can get that text box they are an absolute god at ballgame so yes

[@isaiahcowan6094]

Yep that fits

[@Crazycam2763]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[@_ManIdk]

I feel like the integrity did kill some monsters because the item is called “dusty tutu” and it’s not just because it’s old. All the other items aren’t “dusty” meaning it’s monster dust. Also the red soul is the logo for UNDERTALE and the red text is BALL GAME. So there is some correlation between the red soul and the story? Game? Like Frisk, Chara, and Kris all contribute to the UNDERTALE or BALL GAME as you will. Idk just felt like to share that info. Great vid btw.

[@tweets009]

AHHHHH also i like seeing kindness as kind of the same thing here, doing the monsters a favour by actually putting them out of their misery and pain from being trapped underground and from a bad situation with no real escape and actually watching the video makes me think that bravery would kill all the monsters quite funnily for the opposite reason the monsters were trapped in the first place, humans were so scared of monsters taking a human soul, and its funny to think how instead a brave person would go and show that they arent scared by what everyone else thought and so bravely fought these monsters to end humans fear permanently

[@Mentallyheld]

i feel like kindness would use more of a reason..than that, what if its more about them feeling as if its they think the monsters are using their kindness for their own means, this then can lead to a genocide route, this then can mix with your idea as a way both "kindness" yet revenge bravery is very neat tho

[@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439]

Bravery can work pretty well and like Justice, it is easily corruptable compared to other traits. If you ask me, a Geno boss battle for Bravery should include someone who participated in Monster and Human war. To show Bravery human that, they have done the ultimate bravery by fighting in war no matter how outpowered they were against humans.

[@Omega_Sans12345]

9:11 Bravery is just one step from foolishness.

[@purplefireplays]

Holy

[@bittercharmer1591]

I will not take the vulture slander. They don't even wait, they search.

[@squirlis1189]

Exactly. And they eat dead stuff.

[@wisemeowster]

The ball games results describe battles in many ways that match the traits "Ball" is "Small." You waited, still, for this opportunity, ... then dethroned "Ball" with a sharp attack." - Patience (Also matching toy knife) "Even when you felt trapped, you took notes and achieved the end of "Ball."" -perseverance (Also matching torn notebook) "Your concern and care for "Ball" led to a delicious victory." -Kindness (Also matching burnt pan) "Hopping and twirling, your original style pulled you through." -integrity (Also matching with the dusty tutu/ballet shoes) "Your sure-fire accuracy put an end to the mayhem of "Ball."" -Justice (also matching empty gun) "You are the kind of person who rushes fists-first through all obstacles" -Bravery (also matching the tough glove) here we can see glimpses of the souls personality, how they used their traits and evidence towards what weapons they used. This is truly masterful writing

[@PrimalGoat]

Not only does the idea of soul traits having a dark side make good food for thought, it also makes you wonder what the red soul trait could actually be if it's not determination. Here's a few ideas I had. Curiosity: Undertale and Deltarune are games that encourage players to interact with everything and try different things. If you're curious enough, you can discover amazing things. However, curiosity also has a dark side that is perfectly represented by Flowey. You might do bad things just because you're curious about what would happen. And of course, there's the phrase of, "Curiosity killed the cat." Control: While control in a video game is self-explanatory, it could also mean having control over your own life. On the flipside, you may see it as control of others. You can control the lives of monsters by resetting and loading in Undertale, and in Deltarune, you control Kris who escapes your control on a few occasions. And in Snowgrave, you're indirectly controlling and manipulating Noelle. Choice: Kind of overlaps with control. Being able to choose things is great. However, when you have the power of choice to make decisions, said choices can hurt the lives of others. Freedom: A common theme in both Undertale and Deltarune. In Undertale, you can either free the monsters, or free yourself (which doesn't always end well). You are free to do what you want in this game. In Deltarune, while freedom isn't as present, it can still be seen in the secret bosses of chapters 1 and 2 for their motivations (The air crackles with freedom.) As you see in the real world, freedom can be used in many bad ways such as freedom of speech or freedom to bear arms to hurt other people.

[@clawcakes2]

this is really really good absolute hugebrain take

[@south452]

I’ve seen someone depict it as love before. Not as in LV, but as in, well. Cmon, you know what love is. Frisk doesn’t get much characterisation but it’s clear they care deeply about their friends and stuff. And us picking apart the game, killing characters, whatever we want, *is because we love Undertale,* right? This is literally a big part of the game because Flowey is RIGHT THERE. It makes sense to me! :] your suggestions are neat though

[@PrimalGoat]

@@south452 I completely forgot about love! The double meaning being LOVE. Could also explain why LV goes up in deltarune due to a love of moss

[@maila319]

​@@PrimalGoatOr because the dark fountains are sealed.

[@redhotdanger2394]

I like the choice one bc it feels like something that Toby could definitely do or curiosity.

[@STARS_SPARKLE]

11:50 NINE years? I swear I was just a kid hearing about a cool indie game. How time goes by.

[@956parrots8]

12:38 is the end for those who were wondering that btw

[@Brajxdv]

Thanks, I owe you one.

[@MortarlWolf]

thanks bro. you saved my tie

[@DiamondPizza1]

WHAATT? NOOOOO!

[@MonoSause]

Thanks ETG Clone

[@sonic40001]

How especially...kind of you.

[@theorycrafter300]

hey I have something else to add to the idea of an "kindness" geocide route. I saw a somewhat similar post on reddit a while ago about what you talk about in your video but the idea of kindness in the Geno route could mean something else murdering all the monsters could be about of kindness since they will never see the surface again. kindness likely fell early and with not that many souls its "reasonable" to think they might never be able to see the surface literally what all the monsters hopes and dreams are. so in a sense of "kindness" they kill them rather than getting all of their dreams crunched on a "Unobtainable goal" I could see that as a sick twisted perverted sense of "kindness". killing them before al their hopes and dreams get crunched and that way they can still die without breaking their hearts or die with hope in their hearts. it would be a sick sense of "kindness" but a kindness nonetheless I think either could work but I think this is a lot more fitting in my opinion.

[@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439]

What would be the Geno Finale Boss for Kindness be like? I think it would be someone trying to prove that you're wrong just like Martlet does in her finale battle. Maybe someone like trying to prove Kindness soul that, no matter how bad or harsh life is down here, peoples are still going trying their best, holding out on the hope that one day, they will be freed from this prison and that's what matters most.

[@erykmekwinski1220]

2:39 exactly i've been telling people for ages that red represents "ball game"

[@Unifoseum]

10:00 Team Rocket have been trying for over one thousand. Put some respect on my goats

[@DarkKnight-wh6om]

for the evil version of kindness I was sure shayy would speak about undertale green in wich Coby(the kindness soul) could end the monsters he meets out of "mercy" to put them out of their mizzery, that was very intresting since the prophesy of the angel could still apply to Coby "freeing"the monsters from their pain and sparing them of their long and painful existance in the underground.

[@cyntheziser]

Small gramatical error. It's Cody not Coby. It's misery not mizzery

[@arishachoudhury_]

not to nitpick or anything but it's also prophecy, I think prophesy is a verb idk though.

[@DarkKnight-wh6om]

@@arishachoudhury_ English isnt my first language so I wasnt sure how it was spelled.Thank you for correcting me though cause now I know :D.

[@phxcake4012]

“needed to mention that- no reason why (: “ NICE

[@gayahhbihh]

"I wonder how Shayy's gonna explain the Green Soul." *_"So there was this painter in Germany-"_*

[@Gamerman-lu9bs]

IS THAT FUCKING MINOS PRIME

[@GamesUniteeidk]

7:11 another example of how patience can be used for evil is that to kill sans, you need to be *patient* and wait for him to fall asleep first

[@jsdbnc]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and there is a lot of souls made by fans if you search Undertale soul charts, and even music. A good example is composer Vetrom, he has made covers for soul variations or new souls, as well as other people being inspired by this and making their own souls and all of them are really interesting in concept. Glad you decided to touch the souls aspect in a deeper manner!

[@Voidling9545]

hey! I know that guy! he makes good music.

[@ShinyHunter576]

Undertale Yellow also displays the two sides of justice through Ceroba in the pacifist route; she tries to kill Clover with the justification that she could save monster kind with their soul

[@cmineawesome1007]

I thought it was to fix Kanako

[@missyvespersvicepresident4462]

​@@cmineawesome1007 it was both,with kanako s success being a step towards monsterkinds freedom

[@Kelswagsinandballin]

Souls are really special

[@manofmanynames_]

omori :)

[@GamesbiteRtDL]

Almost nobody is talking about a Perseverance Genocide Route. Perseverance probably would have great mental stamina and the downside of this would be persistence. I could imagine Perseverance using persistence as a way to get things how it wants it, mildly annoying monsters at the beginning and dragging them down and down until striking them down, if they don't comply with their will. It would act like a dystopian regime.

[@gabrielbarron7667]

One other potential kindness thing i wanted to mention, is the possibiltity that the kindness soul thinks they are being kind, because they think the monsters would rather be dead than be trapped

[@icecoldoatmeal]

Reminds me of what Gerson says about the Delta Rune: “Lately, the people have been taking a bleaker outlook. Callin' that winged circle the 'Angel of Death.’ A harbinger of destruction, waitin' to “free” us from this mortal realm...”

[@reinbew62]

Kindness might be the most messed up genocide route ever if it happens in a fangame. It feels disgusting to think that we're doing kindness to monsters by killing them so that they won't be imprisoned anymore. I love that concept!

[@Xander_X]

Genuinely such a great and interesting thought process about such a seemingly forgotten part of the game. I've thought about how these souls might have a positive impact on the games world before, but seeing the darker possibilities really just shows that it doesn't really matter how good something is, it can always be corrupted.

[@davidsalisbury59]

I read an article explaining the idea that the red trait is Love, and Determination is gold. Love has the duality of pacifist "love" or genocide "LOVE". Meanwhile the save point stars made of determination are golden, same with the text when you save, and Flowey (which is more symbolic than proof.) It's a cool idea that really demonstrates the flexibility and mystery of those traits.

[@Bengt2509]

Ball game is the best part of undertale

[@Beavarolli]

real

[@MikeJoe-jy5kp]

True

[@AJotasticGamer]

​@RylishZaliou12 u are not ball game enough 🤬

[@xXgirlfailureXx]

I love balls 😍

[@squiddorito]

10:59 my personal headcanon is that the red soul’s trait is “Courage” based off of an old Undertale theory video from several years ago made by Underlab. (I’ll have to check if that video/channel is still up) Basically, the idea is that all the human souls’ trait are on a spectrum, just like their colors. For example: Kindness is green. The two colors that make green are yellow and cyan, thus making Kindness a combination of the traits Patience and Justice- being mindful of others, but still trying to act out what one thinks is right. So in my mind, the red soul would be an equal combo of Perseverance (magenta) and Justice. Sort of like how Bravery is orange, but there’s more perseverance being expressed. So Courage being along the same vein as Bravery, but not the same. (I hope that made sense. Sorry this comment is so long)

[@squiddorito]

I went and checked. The video still exists! (I wasn’t sure if it was still around since it’s been several years since I last saw it)

[@trphoenix_.]

i saw that video too! but i still stick to the determination one because of save points and stuff

[@kovexplay]

I gained a new understanding of the other humans just like you did after beating Undertale yellow. I never really thought what they were like, how did they feel and why did they end up in the underground. After the fangame however I started to wonder what the previous souls experienced and how did their story go Really well made video, I love an analysis like this! 😁

[@manuelrodriguezpadron8953]

I have 2 things that I would like to contribute: 1- Route G of Undertale Yellow could still be considered the "revenge route" since it is not uncommon for people to justify their (usually) excessive vengeful acts with "justice". 2- I always found the idea of "negative/opposite traits" interesting, like the other side of the same coin (or soul in this case). Justice - Revenge, Courage - Fear, Patience - Despair, Integrity - Falsehood, Kindness - Cruelty and Perseverance - Carelessness. Although I'm also attracted to this idea of the "dark" or "evil" version of the traits he mentions in the video.

[@InkedDoesStuff]

One thing I thought of for kindness geno is this: In the twisted form of kindness, to them, by killing all the monsters, they are setting them free from their burdens of living in the underground.

[@Kamtent-Warning]

Kindness could also be found evil because of them killing the monsters to send them to a better place, i got this idea from macbeth specifically when Ross tells Mcduff that his wife and kids are fine when really they are dead and and doing well in heaven

[@Axle182.]

If you want to get into video essays, that was a 10/10 start, I'd love to see more!

[@cokesloth]

A more accurate perversion of the kindness trait would be an unwavering loyalty to someone committing great evils because you wish to be kind to them, and thus becoming an enabler.

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

Case in point, Noelle in Deltarune

[@ThatBananaHatCat]

That thumbnail is amazing Pink floyd mixed with undertale is something i never thought i would see

[@Slothology.]

Personally I think that Love is the trait of the red soul. Partially based on that phone call you can make at the floor 3 left elevator with Papyrus and Undyne. But it also makes the most narrative sense. If we look at pacifist it’s through your love for monsterkind that you manage to befriend and free them from their prison while with genocide it’s because of your increasing LOVE that you kill everyone in your path. While determination is a major part of Undertale I’d argue that love takes on a larger role in the background. It’s your love for the characters that makes you want what’s best for them. It’s your LOVE that drives you to do stronger and stronger attacks to get everything out of your way. It’s your love that makes you want to keep coming back and exploring new things. And it’s your LOVE that causes you to distance yourself from the characters so you can test things like “what would happen if I killed this character?”

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

Another interpretation to this, including the so-called dark side of love, that I saw here is loving the monsters _like you love a toy._ You just wanna keep playing with them until they break. And because, thanks to your ability to reset at will, they'll _never_ break for good... well, that just opens up a whole lot more avenues, doesn't it?

[@rafsandomierz5313]

I'm going to help with bravery here. By definition bravery is a courage to do or say things that you percive as danger to yourself and going against your perception of danger, like for example do things that aren't acceptable by other people whether those things are good or bad depends on many factors but put that aside. No moral dilemma here.

[@hydrofalls8154]

I like how people just went "Yup undertale yellow is now canon." Brcause same.

[@lynn253]

might as well add my two cents. it’s actually really funny that you posted this now, as after i played undertale yellow i had this same idea and a lot of the same thoughts. yellow’s ending depending on what definition of justice you had really made me think about the other souls and what their adventures could have been like. for clarity, i’m going to use different words depending on the positive and negative, like justice and vengeance for example. patiecne i thought would be a a good friend who would always listen to you, while cunning would be like a snake in the grass waiting to strike. bravery would be someone who could overcome their own fear to stand up fir those they loved, but recklessness would be someone who unthinkingly threw themselves headfirst into things, regardless of the consequences. integrity would be someone who was honest and upstanding, but conceitedness would be someone who thought of themself and their views as better than others, and would go out of their way to enforce that. perseverance would be someone who never gave up, but obsessiveness would be someone who got so tunnel visioned everything else got sidelined, including morals. kindness was hard. a kind person, i obviously don’t need to explain the benefits of that, but could easily become someone that, like you said, thought there were doing the world a kindness no matter how terrible their actions. justice and vengeance, obviously. and of course, determination. capable of extraordinary good or terrifying evil. none of these are mutually exclusive, of course. as well as real life itself showing just how varied a person could be, in universe neutral routes demonstrate this greatly. but it always made me think how something good could be flipped on its head. either way, great video! i’m glad to see someone talk about this. love your content, too, shayy.

[@A.B.-ub9un]

I feel like William Aftom from FNaF would be a perfect example of a evil version of Perseverance. He IS called "Purple Guy" after all, and what became his catchpharase "I always come back" perfectly embodies the concept of Perseverance. He never gives up, and always tries to be a step ahead and get out of any given situation, and if you try to kill him, he always comes back.

[@T0B3573R]

Yeah, I honestly think the Red Soul represents something like Determination, and it’s mostly because of how Undertale Yellow’s narrative is written differently than Undertale’s narrative of being Determined. Think about it, Clovers whole arc in Undertale Yellow is dependent on the player’s, it’s the act of delivering Justice. If you choose to spare every monster you come across, you’re doing it because it’s only fair to them. They were trapped underground, by your species. Even if you didn’t do it yourself, it’s your duty to deliver Justice to this imprisoned society of people, because so much harm has already come their way already. None of the monsters you come across deserved to perish. (Except for maybe Chujin, or Asgore. Maybe.) But.. if you do the genocide run, you’ll still be delivering Justice to monster kind. They had the opportunity to only take one human soul, as said by Toriel, to shatter the barrier. Asgore chose the option that would ensure the deaths of 7 innocent humans, the same species that one of his children were, due to his cowardice. There is no excuse for this. So, to mock the hypocrisy of monster kinds king, Clover decides to kill every monster in their path. Not just to kill Asgore, but to make a statement that if they are willing to kill innocent people despite having other options, then you will get punished by one of the people who you forced into this cruel idea. Now.. compare this to Undertale. In it, we hear by multiple monsters throughout both the pacifist, and genocide route that the human we play as is very “Determined.” Sans, Undyne, Flowey, and Papyrus. We also hear from Alphys that all humans possess Determination in their Souls, regardless of what trait they have. Which is why in the Ball Game, it says, “Bravery, Justice, Integrity, Perseverance, Patience, Kindness.. using these you were able to beat the “Ball Game.” Which implies that whatever Frisk’s Soul is, it’s connected to all the traits. And the most likely thing that connects all the Souls, is Determination. To have Patience, you need to be Determined to wait, to have Bravery you need to be Determined to control your fear, to have Integrity, you must be Determined to fight for your morals, To have Perseverance, you must be Determined enough to learn from your mistakes, and to not make them again. To have Kindness, you must be Determined to treat others with their best interest in mind, even at the expense of your wellbeing, and to have Justice, you must be Determined to find the perpetrator, and deliver to them the karma that they deserve. Frisk is clearly an extremely Determined individual, like, nothing can get in their way. Even Undyne, when they have no choice but to fight, they are like, “WHEN I SAID I AIN’T KILLING ANYONE, AND THAT IM GETTING OUT OF HERE, I MEANT IT!” And run away. Maybe that’s why Frisk doesn’t need to absorb Asgore’s Soul in order to escape the Underground, it’s because their Soul is simply pure Determination. And they don’t have enough to break the barrier, but it’s enough to get through. I subscribe to this theory.

[@ItstDD-557]

7:47 Ah yes, my favorite undertale character, Adolf.

[@SemiHypercube]

This leaves the real question: what is the dark side of Ball Game?

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

How terribly difficult it is to get that darn Red flag!!!

[@coolDude-sx6we]

Not paying you enough for that darn red flag

[@TheYeetedMeat]

The hole. It's very dark.

[@Rokk_]

Flowey in Undertale Yellow even specifically mentions that Justice can also mean Judgment, the more negative side to it.

[@some_random_person3502]

Frankly I like to think that every human trait gets an overpowered super move through determination at lv 19-20 Since frisk, through determination, can oneshot everything now Clover at lv 19-20, their soul gets a laser upgrade along with clover having enough determination to save and load. Question is now, what would be the other soul's super moves,,,

[@kitcringe]

I like to think that at 20 lv a green soul can just heal endlessly

[@some_random_person3502]

@@kitcringe maybe the healing is doubled on all food items, however the shield can now reflect bullets back at the enemies. (not saying that relentless healing overtime isnt bad, it would prob just be TOO broken.)

[@kitcringe]

@@some_random_person3502 Yes, like that

[@missyvespersvicepresident4462]

Thinking about integrity jumping (literally) their enemies. Maybe they can uniquely climb steep paths?

[@squirlis1189]

Patience can probably turn invulnerable for a while

[@1ago0n58]

POV: shayy discovers virtue ethics

[@kloveart727]

i love a video essay, and i love a shayy video too! great points made :3

[@wanderfilho5443]

My soul has the recognizable color of Sea Foam, with the personality trait of "Mild Discomfort" and "Maliciousness" at the same time.

[@vidpawmc]

7:41 EY BRO YOU DONT HAVE TO GO THAT FAR BRO

[@Braxton999Adams]

You realize this is the game that famously features a "Genocide" route, correct? Y’know, that word almost synonymous with the holocaust and similar atrocities?

[@vidpawmc]

@@Braxton999Adams yes i know

[@BeanTheDog2019]

The green soul could also be doing a kindness to the humans because he/she is preventing asgore’s plan and the destruction of humanity

[@ОззиВеликий]

A few years ago I had an AU concept in my head. A what if scenario in which Chara never fell to the Underground and a Patience soul human was the first instead, being adopted by Asgore and Toriel and then patiently manipulating everyone into taking over the entire Underground. Too bad I was never patient or determined enough to make even a fanfic of it. But still the inverted patience specifically seems very interesting.

[@jacobp.2024]

Patience having a toy knife as their signature HEAVILY IMPLIES that they were exactly that. A serial killer, or the kind of human that waits patiently for a back to be turned, or someone's guard to go down.

[@lucasgachalife0]

Kindness used for evil could also be manipulation. Using kind acts as a shield to the horrendous acts made in the background. Showing youself as vulnerable, fragile and weak, but strike just at the right moment to end the one that trusted you the most. Betraying the ones around you and your kind words and actions that were a mere lie. Like an abusive cycle of kindness and pain. (At least, this is what I think could also be the evil in kindness or kind acts.)

[@oof1716]

Thank you so much for more undertale content 🥹 you’re my favorite undertale/deltarune KZbinr

[@ComedicNuno]

Always knew you had that "video essay" potential in you! ;) When you announced you were gonna upload today, I was almost entirely sure that you were going to talk about the main Genocide Route of Undertale, debating on various positive and negative takes people have come up with about it throughout the years. When I saw the thumbnail and title, I clearly understood that it was something different. Especially from the thumbnail's content, I thought the topic would be how people perceive the SOUL in Undertale, if it's a self-insert, something strictly connected to the player or not, all that stuff. After realising I was fooled, not only one, but TWO times regarding the real topic of the video, I was delightedly surprised by being wrong actually, I think it made me appreciate it even more! You said it right, no one stopped to rant about the double meaning of the SOUL traits, it was pleasant to see such a refreshing point of discussion, even if it was for a shorter video duration! Amazing to see that it was Undertale Yellow that sparked the idea for this, yet again this masterpiece proves to be even more masterpiece than any other masterpiece ever seen!!!!! I adopted the term "Vengeance Route" a while ago for the No Mercy Yellow route, but I'll probably double think after using it again :). In the end, it all comes down to the vision Clover had of "Justice", and the fact that this principle can be applied to every single fallen human if you really think about it, is a really good storytelling technique! I especially love how you used examples closer to real life to really hammer down the idea of what can generate many bending paths that the humans might've gone through when traversing the Underground! This is one of those videos that makes us realise that not all Undertale has been fully delved into to the point there is nothing new anymore! Suffice to say, Shayy, please keep putting up these kinds of discussion videos. I think it would look really nice to have a combination of long gameplay videos and more complex-crafted topic discussion uploads, regardless of their duration honestly! The only small critique I can push through is the thumbnail design, I think it could convey what you talked about in a better way! Maybe with a more faithful depiction of the good and dark side of the SOUL traits. Hope you take this as a motivating compliment to keep pumping awesome bangers! ;)

[@elaina-kippykap]

really enjoyed this video! it genuinely is crazy how, even closing in on a decade since undertales release, theres still new things to talk and think about

[@Ghostmare_says_merry_notxmas]

I named all the negative soul traits: Patience - Biding Bravery - Overconfidence Integrity - Carelessness Perseverance - Refusal Kindness - Manipulation Justice - Judgement Determination - Decimation

[@Definitelyahumanman]

Ball Game - Game Ball

[@sanzyboy3952]

Even undyne says "killing you now is an act of mercy"

[@im_a_tide_pod]

Justice, more like JAUNDI-

[@mrmrdoor9256]

Omg hahaha! That pun might just be why justice is yellow

[@im_a_tide_pod]

@@mrmrdoor9256 you clearly have never been around the UT Yellow community

[@maila319]

My theory is that Kris suffers from jaundice that's why they are yellow skinned in the LW.

[@ShayyTV]

Okay I actually had a scrapped bit with the upside down justice soul where it would say Jaundice instead, but I thought it was too silly

[@blueischiii1575]

7:04 Nah, vultures are the GOAT. Without them the world would be overrun with roadkill, and the cycle of life would be destroyed.

[@riley_-zm8vr]

i think red being determination fits since undertale (especially the genocide route) is all about players being so determined to experience every little bit of content in a game.

[@waver5914]

all traits have strong conection to DETERMINATION like to humanity aswell

[@rianthreeden]

Really enjoy the video essay format shayy. Opened my eyes to the duality of souls.

[@Diamonsword]

As a well known man once said: « Reality can be whatever I want » This line alone justifies what you just said about the souls being double sided and all of them EVEN KINDNESS can be evil and rotten Heck I’ll even take an example from a fanmade soul:The hate soul Hate is usually seen as a negative trait which only brings destruction And even if it’s true for the most part you can also just as well hate something bad like hating war for example Reality can be whatever you want If people tell you « you are so kind » that doesn’t mean you will always stay as « helpful » to others On opposite if people tell you « you are so stubborn » that’s a proof of determination (or perseverence both work in this) and this stubborness (is that a word ?) can be what makes you great NOW THAT DOESN’T MEAN YOU CAN DO ANYTHING KIDS YOU AREN’T JEVIL

[@arishachoudhury_]

this is exactly what i needed to motivate me thanks

[@Mr_Mimestamp]

Perfect title and thumbnail combo, referencing the other Soul colors as well as The Dark Side of the Moon, love it

[@StarLightShadows]

The annoying thing about "Determination" as a fanon Soul trait is that, especially in this context, it is literally a synonym of Perserverence. I personally much prefer the idea of it being "Sincerity." Which is based on the element of "staying true to yourself" present throughout the game's pacifist run.

[@TheRatLiker]

"staying true to yourself" literally just integrity soul but okay..

[@lumaleelumabop]

Shay. SHAY. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I LOVE THIS VIDEO. I have been brainrotting about the human souls and their traits for years and especially after playing Undertale Yellow, it has lead me to thinking so hard about how each trait can have different sides to them. This video is short, sweet and pretty much articulates what my brain has been screaming about for the past few months, excellent job!

[@msc2127]

The other side of "twisted kindness" also reminds me of what my father used to tell me- He said that there are plenty of horrible actions that could be done in the name of kindness or love. The example he gave me was haunting (for a 12 yr old X,D): "A parent wishes to protect their child, but this kindness can be twisted to the extreme. How can you be safe in a world that is not? Therefore, i will lock you inside you room against your will for your whole life and take care of you forever. That way my child will never get hurt and will always be safe. Wouldn't that still be "kindness" or "love"?", and in a way... yes! just a very extreme and "twisted" kind of it. Good reasons- horrible actions. And this is basically Toriel - arguably considered to represent kindness in monsters- wanting to keep frisk "trapped" forever inside the ruins, forever protected from the world beyond against their will. Other examples can be a few twisted stories you hear around in real life about the same thing: parents locking or lying to their own children to keep them "safe", not knowing -or not caring- they are hurting them or priving them from living "for their own good". All because (or in the name of) of kindness or love. We can also see that this "negative" side of kindness is also a recurrent theme in many movies (such as in finding Nemo) and myths, not only involving warfare in the name of "good". In greek mithology, it is described that Prometheus gives fire (knowledge) to humanity with the kindness of his heart. He knew they needed it to survive and live a better life in general, but giving fire to humans allowed them to not only challenge the gods but learn new ways to commit atrocities to others and themselves. This came from an act of kindness- was it good, was it bad? There are cases where you can believe that kindness can be fully good; There are other cases, like the extreme child-parent situation previously mentioned, that it can be seen as fully bad; And there are cases like in the greek myth, where its in a gray area depending on what you think, and it keeps you thinking, because sometimes there really isnt an easy answer- for any of the other soul traits either (needless to say- this question has been in my mind ever since Undertale, and i managed to see a negative side in every soul trait. (kept me awake during math class lol) When i couldnt find "bad" things for the kindness trait, I remembered that little "musing" from my father, and it opened a lot more things to ponder about the souls. And also that things are usually more complicated than they seem. Its fun, i dont think we should be ashamed to ponder about things in life, even if they come from a silly game from 9 years ago)

[@Ketsui.]

I'd love to see more videos like this from you, Shayy! It was a great watch

[@helio3928]

9:21 brave ones, foolish ones, both not walk the middle road

[@MizzClareJonesKNS]

This is a very good in depth analysis and I'm astonished that as a writer, I never considered it this way myself. I especially liked how you elaborated on patience, that example to lead into an actual death for Toriel in the game was good execution. I hope you do more videos like these!

[@gek_c]

i so badly want there to be an undertale blue like imagine an undertale fangame where the genocide route or at least a non pacifist route is the cannon ending and they die in waterfall so imagine it being like undertale yellow where whole new areas are created but theyre all water themed like there could be underwater areas im gonna do it im gonna change everything about my life and become a game developer just so i can make this there could be a whole ECHO FLOWER MYSTERY AND MAYBE BECAUSE THEYRE A DANCER THERE COULD BE DDR SECTIONS maybe GERSON BUT YOUNGER COULD BE THERE??? MAYBE TEMMIE VILLAGE WAS ONCE A TEMMIE KINGDOM maybe i should not be in charge of game development

[@ceriisu]

the need to clarify alphys discovered determination is so real lol