The Darkness That Comes Before

[@andrewhanson405]

Finally a Booktuber is reviewing the greatest fantasy series of all time, R Scott Bakker's The Second Apocalypse. This series only gets better and better after each book.

[@slowlyred2082]

Bakker got his hooks in my now.. no turning back. Im currently creeping my way through the warrior prophet and loving it. 👌 I have some other reads going as well, but I'm pushing to finish the first three before January.

[@andrewhanson405]

@@slowlyred2082 I loved this review because it reminded me on how I felt when I read this book for the first time. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the series as you progress. Bakker is my favorite writer in Fantasy today this guy is uncompromising in realizing his vision.

[@slowlyred2082]

I can really see that in his work and I really love that. I salute the uncompromising creator when they have a clear vision

[@Red21Viper]

Agree that it gets better and better. Very important for me. The last two, Great Ordeal and Unholy Consult, are mind blowing. Totally uncompromising

[@THX-bz8bi]

Absolutely, its better than malazan

[@QuintVonCanon]

Welcome to the Few, brother. Truth Shines.

[@mikesbookreviews]

*sigh* 2022 at the earliest for me. But very encouraging.

[@KingMob023]

I look forward to watching your videos when you give this masterpiece of a series a go.

[@slowlyred2082]

There's so many books and we have so little time. It's frustrating sometimes but also a huge blessing. Honestly Mike, I would love to hear your thoughts on the series. You, Allen and Philip would be the people I'd like to see review this one.

[@well-intentionedwordsmith3187]

A good day to you Sir! I have taken up the Tusk and am reading the Prince of Nothing series! I plan to journey all the way to the Unholy Consult. Thank you for your awesome reviews and recommendations of this series. Stay blessed and two thumbs up to you SiR👍🏼👍🏼

[@hopeprevails3213]

Bakker is freaking good. I finished the second book a few days ago, The Warrior Prophet, and somehow it is even better than the first. It is the closest thing to another Malazan for me and I actually like Bakker's style a bit more. Great prose. Great themes. Great world. Epic fucking books in general.

[@slowlyred2082]

Almost done with part 1 in warrior prophet, loving it 👌

[@MacScarfield]

“I am not one more animal. (…) I am a man. I stand apart from these things.” Yeah, Bakker is definitely making Kellhus reference "Dune" there with the words used about the Gom Jabbar Test of the Bene Gesserit. Also definitely felt a John Le Carre Spy Story influence (more disillusioned conmen and indifferent bureaucracies then James Bond action) with Achamian: The Scarlet Spires seems to me as as much a reference to the sorcerer’s fortress from the OG Conan the Cimmerian story of “The Scarlet Citadel”, as to the Soviet “Red Fortress” of Kremlin from a Cold War Spy Novel!

[@neilthompson5740]

..... and yes, i am obsessed with it

[@osirisruiz492]

Finally a KZbinr who only reviews grimdark and doesn't suck at it, good job man.

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏 This comment left me with a shit eating grin 😉

[@thatsci-firogue]

Hits different on the re-read. Couldn't help myself and immediately dove into Warrior-Prophet

[@slowlyred2082]

So much more, that second time around 🖤

[@HakolBeseder09]

Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor is my favorite fantasy saga. Best of the best i've read so far. And the prose is exquisite to read

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm pretty hooked at this point 👌

[@PapaMuerto086]

Halfway through book two. This series is definitely taking a solid silver medal in my heart thus far, standing below the new sun and above the stormlight archives

[@Red21Viper]

Second Apocalypse is my Gold and New Sun my Silver 😁

[@BR_SH01]

I’ve read wheel of time, stormlight and 4 books of lightbringer so far and you have me wanting to read these books so bad next! Haha

[@slowlyred2082]

It's the most dark and epic thing I've read. (The entire Second Apocalypse series)

[@BR_SH01]

@@slowlyred2082 duuudde that’s so exciting!. I’m definitely going into this next. I love everything I’ve read so far in this journey (especially WoT) but I crave so much more epicness and darkness sometimes so this sounds perfect!

[@neilthompson5740]

My favourite series ever. I have finished all 7 books. It gets better and better

[@slowlyred2082]

Almost done with part1 of warrior prophet 👌

[@Voidforestbird]

I read neuropath when I was like 16, and was exited to discover the rest of his work. I'm glad it took me like 15 years though, because his infodumping is not my favorite 🙃 like dostoevsky, I'm convinced it will grow on me, but man. I sometimes get sleepy when reading this and I don't know if it's because of my weird health or boredom 😅 I know that it will explore themes of consciousness and stuff later, and I'm so exited for that Gregory sadler is a professor in philosophy and did many videoes on this series. I highly recommend them!

[@Johanna_reads]

I intend to read this soon after I complete some of the series I'm working through right now. I love how you described Bakker as diverting from a normal exposition approach. I can go along with an occasional info-dump, but I admire a skillful approach to subtle world-building through character interaction. Sounds to me a lot like Erikson in that regard. Sometimes the payoff is well worth the struggle. I hope you enjoy the rest of the series!

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm currently reading book 2 and loving it. Bakker can certainly transport you into his dark world. I do think some will find it frustrating but I also think many will love every bit of it

[@lenna6013]

Im already intimidated))

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Awesome! I’ll be reading this early next year, so it’s fantastic to have your take on it. I’ll be sure to take a deep breath before I start!

[@slowlyred2082]

I eagerly await your thoughts on this one. I'm currently working my way through the 2nd book and I'm completely sucked into this world.

[@blacknbluecollarreader]

First two books are arriving today......my mental fortitude is swoll from reading push ups. Can't wait to get into this one. Excellent content my man.

[@GabrielRodriguesYT]

You're my favourite reviewer on YT. Great video.

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏 That means a lot and trust me, it's so very appreciated

[@Yuuzhanvon]

Same here. Got me in to the 2nd Apocalypse series, and I am truly thankful.

[@demidrek-heyward]

yeaaaa budddyy

[@slowlyred2082]

🖤

[@stacymccaskill-lilja2944]

Wow! To think I've had this book sitting on my shelf unread since about 2007? 2008? Definitely after I moved across the big pond. I WILL be reading it next year and getting my hands on the other two books! It sounds like a winner. 😊

[@slowlyred2082]

It's definitely a new love for my black heart 🖤

[@stacymccaskill-lilja2944]

@@slowlyred2082 So many people say, "you have to read this series," but haven't actually reviewed the book itself. There have been more booktubers putting it on their tbr's recently and I see that as a positive thing. I will absolutely be getting to it sooner rather than later now. My biggest problem is that I have it shelved in the wrong place and keep forgetting I have it. Ha! Time to move it. Thanks again for a thorough review!

[@slowlyred2082]

No problem, thanks for watching 🙏

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

The battle scenes are amazing, love these books so much!

[@slowlyred2082]

Best battles ever read 👌

[@Thefantasybookwarrior]

I ordered the Trilogy today. I’m a big Malazan and Gene Wolfe fan, I hope this hits the spot!

[@Red21Viper]

From now on I ll be known as a Bakker PacMan. Great review mate. You know its my favourite. This is like my holy scripture. Trust me the further you go, the darker it will turn. There will be no light at the end of the tunnel

[@slowlyred2082]

I think Bakker has made me want to be a PacMan, which is impressive. I just want to know everything.

[@Red21Viper]

@@slowlyred2082 you have no clue mate. The world building, the implications, the revelations etc are great to the very end

[@madisongoodyear5040]

Hey friend!! I’m reading these now and I’m soooo happy you made these videos!

[@slowlyred2082]

Hooray 🙌 Welcome to the descent into darkness 🖤

[@thatsci-firogue]

Halfway through the book right now, it's fucking awesome

[@slowlyred2082]

Best shit out there

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@slowlyred2082 definitely understand why it's one of your favourite series. Good thing I've the rest of the trilogy on the shelf.

[@aniazawadka6378]

Damn, man, this is some great contet!!! Your channel is soooo underrated. Subscribed ;)

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏

[@thatsci-firogue]

I've said this about Erikson and GRRM and it's equally true of Bakker, it's amazing just how much is already *there* on the re-read.

[@henrylopez3422]

Well done. I was looking forward to your review of this book (and series) and, as usual, you did not disappoint. I think your impressions mirrored my own and your advice to struggling readers is spot on. As others have mentioned below, the books only get better and darker as the series progresses. Thank you again for doing this review and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the rest of the series. Happy Holidays!

[@slowlyred2082]

Thanks, Henry 🙏 And happy holidays my friend. I'm super excited about this journey, so far it has only gotten better and I'm certainly hooked at this point 😉

[@spyroskamilalis2515]

I remember reading this 4-5 years ago. This was some of the best fantasy work I had read thus far. It remains up there with the greatest. I'm one of the people who enjoy a lot of info coming my way because I form the world better in my mind.

[@slowlyred2082]

Absolutely the best fantasy 🙌 At least, in my opinion 😉

[@khod3337]

This has got me majorly excited for this series 😂 need to finish a land fit for heroes and the broken empire before i can start. I may have to get some Michael Fletcher and anna smith spark read before too with how big the second apocalypse is

[@nickcarlson2708]

Looks like I have to bump this up my TBR. Cheers!

[@londonlemons]

I just started this series tonight and already love it! Thank you for the fantastic review, it definitely set me up for success with this series.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

The character and faction glossary at the back helped me keep track of everything :) enjoy, these are my favourite books of all time

[@TheGeekyHippie]

I read an ARC of this book that a friend had, and was enthralled. Read several more in the series, but just never got back to it. It *_most definitely gets darker._*

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm pretty sold on this series at this point, started the warrior prophet and it's great, ot also has made me fall in love with Darkness even more..

[@lorn6294]

Hey! You were at the battle at Kiyuth too! I thought you looked familiar.

[@firstcomesrock8593]

Love watching your videos man, would you recommend this or the Malazan Empire series first? Also have you ever read Brandon Sanderson? I've tried Mistborn, because it's rated so high, and I just hate it. So I think it might just not be for me.

[@lifesabeach2597]

I know not everybody will like this series but I really liked it

[@juanm.6318]

Hi there! New to your channel. Happy to sea you're reading Bakker. He doesn´t get the amount of attention his series deserves. It's probably the best big fantasy being written, up there with Malazan imo. If you're loving it now wait till you start the second part of the series. It gets really really dark and I mean cosmic-horror existencialist-dread kinda dark. I've got images and scenes burnt into my brain!! Hard-hitting, gut-wrenching stuff

[@slowlyred2082]

Welcome 🙏 Bakker deserves a massive amount of spotlight, his writing is top tier and the story is easily my favorite epic. Can't wait for Aspect Emperor 🙌

[@tenbones1274]

Great review. SUBBED

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏

[@tenbones1274]

@@slowlyred2082 I read this whole series (and the series after it) about 4 years ago, and it left me deeply moved as a lifelong fantasy reader. I also happen to be a philosophy-guy, so I REALLY appreciated Bakker's deeper underpinnings (especially the Greek stuff that underpins his magic systems). So watching your review, I could tell he got into your head too. It really is an amazing reconstruction of the genre. It's like Tolkien and Lovecraft had a Warhammer baby. Anyone that can appreciate it, as you clearly do, makes you one of the tribe. good times!

[@xsomeNOOBx]

You're so compelling in your talks about these books I am working my way through all your videos on them :). The cause and effect, and free will, are a core part of the meta of these books. The Dunyain trying to gain mastery over themselves by trying to exit and control the causal chain. The idea that you cannot see what caused you to feel or react a certain way (Lleweth). The effect of tradition both seen and unseen on what you think is possible (Cnaiur). The effect one soul can have on another (Khellus vs everyone). The effect of not knowing your history and what is really going on in your world (The mandate being in a privileged position). The giving into your baser instincts where cause and effect are so joined that there is little room for any sort of "you" (the inchoroi and sranc). Bakker is also a philosopher of sorts and has written on these subjects in a non-fiction way.

[@adamborst]

I heard you and Mike talk about this series and wanted to jump on your playlist to get your thoughts. I initially read the initial trilogy around 2009/2010. While I had read a bunch of fantasy, I went into the series not even knowing what grimdark was let alone how this series was going to be so heavy/brutal/dark, especially getting into Aspect-Emperor. I still haven't done much in the way of grimdark, but I think I want to do a re-read in the next year or two because I'll now understand what I'm getting into. Lastly, I want to say, the thing that initially hooked me was the name of the book, such a cool name, and then if memory serves, the fight near the beginning of the book with the nonman.

[@slowlyred2082]

Yes!! The nonman in the prologue haunted me throughout reading the series. It's by far the most impressive series I've ever read.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Finally finished this video. This just sounds so freaking cool and complex. One question though: do the characters stand around navel-gazing and philosophizing a lot? Like, i'm okay with some of that, but if there's a ton of it, I tend to shy more away from it. Regardless, I'm going to try and get to this book this year.

[@slowlyred2082]

I would say the imperials certainly Navel gaze, but they truly think themselves above everyone else. There is alot of internal monologs and what-not but I never got annoyed by it. It's kinda like Dune meets the Crusades meets Homer... The characters are uncompromising so I would understand why some folks would hate them but I enjoyed the characters being who they would be..pure bastards I'd be really interested in your take, especially with your knowledge in history. There's definitely some parallels

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

@@slowlyred2082 that sounds so cool

[@slowlyred2082]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria the trilogy consumed me, in the best ways. It's nice to have something huge that you can get into and just lose yourself.

[@thephobos9907]

It’s really awesome to see someone else as excited about this book as I was! It’s so good and it just gets better (and darker)! Looking forward to more vids

[@slowlyred2082]

Loved it and loving the warrior prophet even more. Bakker's battles are sooooo good 👍

[@lemonnomel9416]

I was always a bit surprised to see that this series got ribbed for its slow drip feed into the world where Malazan gets universally praised for doing the same thing. Actually, having said that, I think this series gets a lot of weird criticism allotted to it. The treatment of women in particular and homosexuals often gets pointed out as deeply unpleasant to read about, and yes, that’s the whole point. I feel like much of Baker’s writing is meant to showcase human evils and how they’re casually allowed in society but it feels like most people kind of just willfully ignore it in favor of buying into an easy “this thing is bad” tide.

[@slowlyred2082]

I really wish people praised this as much as malazan. I think Bakker shows us human conditioning on all levels. It will show you the dark side

[@tamarabrouwer342]

This was a great review. I decided to join a read a long of this trilogy in June. I thought I'd try to find a review of it, and now I can't wait. 😂 Very exciting.

[@ceekayy79]

Already planned to start this tonight!!!! Can't wait

[@slowlyred2082]

Yay 🙌 I'll be in the Discord and will answer any questions you need if they start popping up and things get confusing

[@charlesgabriel5569]

Good Review and insights.. Completely agree with you. This book is not every adult fantasy reader's cup of tea.. but one should definitely have this in their TBR . I personally have been postponing reading this for some time as it was too dark. Need to give it a go soon 🤞

[@slowlyred2082]

I put off reading this for quite a while. Now finally getting into it, I'm having an amazing time experiencing this tale.

[@bookswithzara]

Rewatching this because I recently purchased the first book. Not going to lie, I’m nervous as the world seems huge but I’m excited to jump in given how much you love it.

[@slowlyred2082]

Awesome 👌 It is giant and vast, but it just adds to the amazement. I'm going to be starting my re-read this month!!

[@bookswithzara]

@@slowlyred2082 wow, already re-reading!

[@Red21Viper]

@@slowlyred2082 it took me less than a year to reread too. I just could not avoid the irresistible call. I cant imagine your feelings reading the first prologue just knowing what follows. Every image and meaning is multiplied

[@slowlyred2082]

Just finished the prologue again last night. 🖤🖤🖤 Such an experience with knowing the things I now know.

[@Red21Viper]

@@slowlyred2082 I am sure you will discover so many great details in his writing. He is a master

[@anangryscorpion5838]

I finished this book mere moments ago, fantastic fantastic read. Not since Dune or Malazan have I fallen in love with a series so quickly. Bakker's writing is so enticing, I could read this book for hours and hours at a time, that's a very rare thing for me, usually I read in 40 minute bursts. I also found both the world and the characters fascinating, just really interesting stuff. Also, I would add it's confusing but it's complex (though I didn't find it to be near as confusing as people had told me it was). Malazan on the other hand, while I love the series to death, is complex because it's confusing. Anyway, excellent review, I actually picked this one up on your recommendation after watching this video a few days ago, blew through the book in a little over 2 days after that. Unfortunately Amazon has no stock for The Warrior Prophet right now, so I guess I'm just sat around twiddling my thumbs until they get it back in stock, sad.

[@slowlyred2082]

Ughhh, waiting on Warrior Prophet must be agonizing. Bakker's writing is very addictive.

[@jayspeijer614]

This gives me some optimism as someone who is grinding my way into Malazan Book 8. My issue with Erikson is not that he has a complex plot, but that he takes obfuscation and mystery to an unnecessarily high degree. 'Jack went to the store for a stick of butter' in SE's style of prose becomes something like 'He (whose name has changed multiple times for no discernible reason) went somewhere in some realm for a stick of something'. Oh, you are confused? Poor you; read harder. I hope Bakker is not trying to compete with Erikson for The Most Difficult to Understand Story Just Because championship.

[@jzenhenko]

rest of series definitely worth checking out its a real chopper

[@slowlyred2082]

Reading the warrior prophet right now!! 🙌 If it just continues to be this good I'd be satisfied, but it does feel like its getting even better. Bakker's battles are amazing.. I literally don't know anything that compares, it makes my heart race and my palms sweat

[@wrightfamily735]

Just Picked up the 1st 2books in this series on account of your review so hear goes !!

[@slowlyred2082]

I hope you enjoy them 🙏

[@elementsurprise7147]

What experience do you reckon is needed and what kind of books will I have to digest to eventually appreciate books of this scope?

[@slowlyred2082]

Really depends on how much experience you are already bringing to the table. But it would be good to try out some smaller stories that have multiple threads. If you find yourself digging the many perspectives and stuff then you could be ready. Bakker can be dense and philosophical, so books like The Silmarillion and Blood Meridian are good workouts 💪

[@elementsurprise7147]

@@slowlyred2082 definitely piqued my curiosity there. Off to my TBR this book goes!

[@marcweber8509]

So far you've read darker. But haven't haven't gotten to the later books, yet. It might yet get there 😁✌️

[@slowlyred2082]

Yeah, that's what it feels like. I certainly was surprised but I still could feel chills in the air, for what has yet to come.

[@Javier-il1xi]

I'm a noob in terms of fantasy but I've read some Tolkien and just finished Berserk by Kentaro Miura. Pretty into dark fantasy and philosophy (Hegel mainly) so I wonder if you guys recommend Bakker. Should I buy his books? 🙂

[@slowlyred2082]

I would encourage you to try them out. I personally have been changed by his work. It's very dense but if you enjoy Tolkien, Beserk and philosophy you'll probably enjoy it as well

[@Red21Viper]

Actual fact is that Bakker mentions Hegel as one of his influences on some of particular themes in the series. Bakker is perfect for a fan of Tolkien, Berserk and philosophy. But he is something unique. Dont expect a mongrel monster made of these. You will soon realise that he is a perfect fit with these on his own track

[@DarkBetweenPages]

Thank you for the break down! One of the best book reviewers I have come across! Every book you mention I want to pick up! Ughh this may have to go on the list but I don’t know when I’ll have time to dive into another new trilogy. But this sounds like a must! Thanks!

[@slowlyred2082]

Its got its hooks in me. I'm trying to finish the trilogy this month. We shall see. It's massive and I love it

[@DarkBetweenPages]

@@slowlyred2082 Yes! If my review requests wasn't at 100 books! I would be jumping in right away. I LOVE massive books..... oddly haha. But I just don't have time at the moment. It's only fair that I get through my review reads for these amazing authors first. Although! I did just put all three of these in my to read list! Thanks again :)

[@fantasticphilosophy181]

Great review! This trilogy is very dark and very very well written. Also he touches on subjects that are really interesting. I stopped reading after the first trilogy, because i needed a brake. Some humour would have made it a little bit easier to digest, i think (at least for me)

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm still early into the Warrior Prophet but im loving it so far. Very glad I finally started it 🙌

[@AndrewsWizardlyReads]

Is this book 1 of a second trilogy or can I start at the darkness comes before

[@Red21Viper]

Its the first book of the whole story. Go for it

[@mrpopodopalis1056]

I'll have to check this series out Good review

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏 Let me know what you think, im pushing forward into book 2 👌

[@Sevatar_VIIIth]

Recently discovered the "Grim Dark" book genre and have decided to jump into it. Coming from WH 40k/Fantasy universes I can't decide which to start first Darkness that Comes Before or Steel Remains? Any advice?

[@slowlyred2082]

Both will be vastly different from Warhammer. Both are super dark and dense reads. Darkness is personally one of my all time favorites 🖤 but it's just the beginning. The Steel Remains has a more self contained ending and is one of the most graphic fantasy reads I've put eyes on.

[@Sevatar_VIIIth]

@@slowlyred2082 yeah I've always gravitated towards that grim, violent, dark, and gritty theme in books/movies. It's the main reason I got into both warhammer universes thinking those were the Grim Dark of the grim dark in books but.....then I found your channel lol. I plan to read both series along with the others from your list video, just can't decide which of these two is first for me. Re watching both books review videos of yours now lol.

[@baldbookgeek]

Love this series!!!

[@slowlyred2082]

It's amazing 👌 I'm so glad I finally started it, have not been this crazy about a series in a minute. Probably not since Manifest Delusions series

[@thatsci-firogue]

Just ordered it

[@slowlyred2082]

Yes!! Amazing life choices 😉

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@slowlyred2082 you're one hell of a salesman 😆

[@marcweber8509]

The bad treatment of women disclaimer is mentioned quite often. I found it interesting to hear, what fellow Grimdark author Anna Smith Spark had to say on the topic: "A lot of women in grimdark do have quite limited autonomy. Serwe and Esme in Prince of Nothing are classic examples. But that’s very much the point - Eawa is a brutal, horrible misogynistic world in which women’s lives are cramped down to nothing, and that’s shown so clearly to be harmful to both women and men. None of the men in Prince of Nothing has a positive, equal relationship with an autonomous woman, and all of the men suffer hugely because of this. Prince of Nothing is about the agony of toxic masculinity. Its erasure of female autonomy is a part of that." Source: www.whispersandwonder.com/2019/12/19/ladies-of-grimdark-the-court-of-broken-knives-by-anna-smith-spark/

[@slowlyred2082]

I just read this, and I really like her perspective

[@briankovich9384]

This is the first book/series you have reviewed on your channel that I have yet to read. Consider me intrigued!

[@slowlyred2082]

This is one my new favorite series for sure. Starting book 3 🙌

[@ev3261]

Great review! I think Bakker has (together with Erikson) the best prose in today's fantasy writers. I am finishing book 2 now, and can't wait to move to book 3.

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏 Almost finished with part 1 of the warrior prophet 🙌

[@ev3261]

@@slowlyred2082 you move fast! One point I think we are not in agreement - I find Kelhus to be a very hard character to get attached to (unlike Esmi and Akka, that I really like). But that's just another great aspect of this series. The main protagonist is not a shining hero (like in real life, I guess :-))

[@slowlyred2082]

@@ev3261 yeah, I think I ended up loving most of the bad people, lol Conphas and Cnaiur. I found them uncompromising and believable. I felt like Cnaiur speaks profoundly for a "savage heathen" but it still feels like a barbarian talking. People might say Conphas whines but I would say he's a man of station and finds himself above most, so of course things annoy him, of course he gets angry easy. He believes he has the right to. Khellus i do find very intriguing 🤔

[@ev3261]

@@slowlyred2082 Love your analysis of the characters, and agree with all you said. Can't wait to see your review for the second book!

[@Red21Viper]

I find so interesting the dynamics between those three brilliant characters. Cnaiur, Comphas and Kellhus. Each of them shining in his own way. Conphas and Cnaiur are my favorite too

[@MattUebel]

fantastic stuff!

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏

[@anomanderrake6870]

Great review!

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏

[@madisongoodyear5040]

I just got this in the mail!

[@Red21Viper]

Envy you. Hope u like them

[@slowlyred2082]

Yes! Mwahahaha, join us

[@kuvrut7747]

I have read first two books in series and third was not published yet then. I really liked them but somehow time passed and I never picked up the series. Now that so much time passed and there are two trilogies I started to read the darkness. I know I will like it. Are other books in series good as first two? There are lot of books now.

[@slowlyred2082]

Yes, the last 3 in Aspect Emperor are phenomenal. Out of the 7 books, #3 & #4 were my least favorite. But, that really just means I found them awesome instead of phenomenal. All 7 books are worth the time. The series changed me after finishing

[@kuvrut7747]

@@slowlyred2082 I really liked first two but I read them in my late teens. I always dread rereading books for some reason. But these books always stayed my mind. Ah well what's done is done, since this afternoon I have them all on my Kindle. It should be fun. I remember I read them on my native language, in beautiful hardcover, now I will read them in English.

[@rocketmythology]

Good job man I really enjoyed your comment! It's clear to me that you have put in a LOT of time preparing this summary -- much appreciated. I really agree with what you said about how RSB describes battle: how it's not a blow-by-blow account, yet at the same time somehow it makes you feel like you are really there. I have read other books where an author will write an action scene like a slow-motion kungfu scene and it just becomes tedious. Not a serious suggestion, but just a random idea: I feel like you could have just read the first half of the prologue (before the 2000 year time jump), and that would have served as a perfect introduction of the book. The half-glimpsed mysteries, the world-spanning scale, the brutality, the morality/philosophy foundation, the great writing -- it's all there. There's just one thing that really drives me up the wall: why does everyone pronounce the protagonist's name as "kel-las"? Considering how knowledgeable you are about this series, this is really surprising. There is a "character and faction glossary" at the end where it's clearly stated that his name is pronounced as "kell-huss," i.e., the H in "Kellhus" is NOT silent. [end nerd rage]

[@slowlyred2082]

Yeah, I repeatedly get these names wrong.. I love Cnaiur, but I say his name wrong almost every time.. Sorry bout that. I'm not the best with pronunciation

[@rocketmythology]

@@slowlyred2082 No worries. In fact, you pronounced most of the names and places exactly like how I imagine they should sound so overall very good job! Also, Cnaiur... now that's a character! Murderer, rapist, altogether psycho of the highest order, yet somehow one of the most sympathetic?! Alongside Kellhus, I feel like these two are really the greatest achievements of this series of books in terms of character-building. I would take these two and put them up against any other character in any other fantasy books.

[@slowlyred2082]

These stories have consumed me in the best ways and really ignited a passion to devour everything about them

[@lorn6294]

To be fair, I dove right in at chapter one. I read most of the book before even realizing there was a glossary and that it even had some name pronunciations in it. Probably the same for a lot of people. Since it is not too common for books to have a glossary, and if they do they are not required reading before starting the book. By then my brain had already chosen how to pronounce the names. I have tried to (and mostly successfully) adjusted to the new, 'proper' ways to pronounce them. But, I have read the full second apocalypse series, and even today, I will catch my mental voice saying "K-nair" when references are made about Cnauir. Even though I'm well aware it is pronounced Nay-yur. That said, yes it is a minor thing, doesn't change how amazing this series is. Cheers.

[@penguinsquad5142]

Would be nice if I could find any of his books. Every bookstore I have been to doesn’t have any of his books. I guess I could order them online but I definitely prefer to pickup the books myself. Have had way to many bad experiences with buy books online.

[@lorn6294]

Yeah, online ordering is the only way to get them. They show up sometimes in used bookstores, but that is extremely rare. Some books in the 2nd series are even harder to find.

[@slowlyred2082]

Sometimes used bookstores will have copies. If you don't mind second hand stuff.

[@thatsci-firogue]

I ordered the book but just as my order was confirmed the book went out of stock, I thought I must've gotten lucky or something but no I didn't get the book. At least I was refunded. Now I've ordered it again and can't wait to delve into this Grimdark goodness

[@slowlyred2082]

🖤🖤🖤

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@slowlyred2082 ordered the Warrior Prophet while I was at it since its hardly ever instock where I order my books from

[@slowlyred2082]

Warrior Prophet is intense 😳 An absolute masterpiece for fantasy and brutal as all hell

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@slowlyred2082 sounds perfect 😈

[@marcovmedia]

What books would you recommend for someone that wants prepare for Bakker?

[@slowlyred2082]

Depends where you're at currently. I do think that Adrian Selby's books are great for beefing up your experience. As well as Richard K Morgan's Land Fit For Heroes trilogy.

[@dustintbrproblems]

I really need to reread the trilogy so I can move forward with the other books. It's been way too long since I read them, as I was waiting for each volume as they were released after The Darkness That Comes Before. I think the Malazan comparison is apt, not because they're exactly the same, but there is a weight and depth to both series' that I think would appeal to fans of either.

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm really enjoying, more than any other epic or big scope series. Just started pt2 of the warrior prophet and I'm blown away with how it's even better

[@__H__]

Yeah, I started the series shortly after The Warrior Prophet was released and I've been constantly working to analyze and understand the philosophical underpinnings and ontology of the series. If you eventually get through to the end, come find us, there are a bunch of us with years of work on the series that can likely help with any questions you might have.

[@slowlyred2082]

Awesome, thank you. It's definitely got me sucked in, I'd actually be interested in doing video breakdowns of the religions and stuff. Gotta catch up first 😉

[@__H__]

@@slowlyred2082 you might want to wait until you are through the whole series to do that, including the Aspect Emperor, because there are a lot of revelations towards the end that might well reframe how you see them!

[@slowlyred2082]

@@__H__ yes, I can kinda see how this series really needs to be fully read before assuming things. Gotta say I'm excited to get into all of it

[@LadyJaneBooks]

Awesome review as always!!!

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you 🙏

[@Reevesy791]

I love this cover. Any idea where I can find this print version?

[@slowlyred2082]

I'm pretty sure I got mine from Amazon.. though that was a little while back

[@Reevesy791]

@@slowlyred2082 Ahh can see this version in the US store, not the UK. But nevermind, looking forward to reading this anyway!

[@potatobrarian2731]

Okay, so I picked up this book really randomly years and years ago without knowing anything about it or Scott Bakker and ended up DNF-ing it halfway through because 1) like you said, why are the only female characters prostitutes? and 2) I have a lot of trouble remembering names, and there are so many long names! I kept having to flip back every chapter and go "Who was that again?" I'm aware that the second reason is my own personal problem, and it's not Bakker's fault I have terrible memory, but I just wasn't invested enough to keep going. Your enthusiasm and comments have made me consider reattempting it. I've discovered recently that as an old fogey, many books I disliked as a teen/young adult are now way better with maturity (or just a fully-developed brain, lol).

[@slowlyred2082]

Someone actually sent me an interview article from Anna Smith Spark, where she elaborated on Bakker's world being misogynistic but she felt that was the point. That the men in the world are actually suffering from this fact. It certainly gives another perspective that should be considered. I'm reading the second book and loving it even more

[@Red21Viper]

I had the same experience. When I was young I dnf the second book of this trilogy. Even though I liked the writing somehow I couldnt cope. Maybe the mood. Maybe the themes. I always felt there was potential there so I started it again a few years ago. It turned out to be my favourite series. This and the even better sequel Aspect Emperor. I reread them in 2020 and it was even better. So yes maybe you could try them once more

[@potatobrarian2731]

@@slowlyred2082 I read the Anna Smith Spark article and realized I have never read her books, so I got Court Of Broken Knives and am now halfway through it and really liking it. I saw complaints that her writing is a lot like Bakker's, so maybe I'll like his stuff better this time 'round, too.

[@potatobrarian2731]

@@Red21Viper That is good to know! I think I will try again! I didn't have a problem with the writing, but I just couldn't get into the story years ago.

[@slowlyred2082]

@@potatobrarian2731 she's definitely on my radar!! Hopefully diving in early next year

[@EricMcLuen]

Finally started this book. Getting Steve Erickson/Gene Wolfe vibes on the writing style. But enjoying it so far. However I would like to call a penalty for unnecessary umlaut abuse on Bakker.

[@aaroncathey627]

What do you guys think? Should I read Black Company or this first series first?

[@slowlyred2082]

If you want fast paced go with black company, if you want something to sink your teeth into, go Darkness 😀

[@Michael_L_Morrison]

Sounds both interesting and confusing. I think I will put it in my TBR list.

[@slowlyred2082]

It's amazing!! It's definitely a cerebral dark ride that might not be for everyone, but for those that seek the darkness it will pay off big time.

[@Michael_L_Morrison]

@@slowlyred2082 I don’t mind the darkness. I’m good there. As for confusing or rather slightly confusing, I just finished Malazan 1 - Gardens of the Moon. I enjoyed it but there was a lot I didn’t understand. I’m wondering if this is a similar situation.

[@slowlyred2082]

I've read gardens of the moon and yeah it's not some impossible book but it doesn't hold your hand either. I think Bakker will hit you with stuff that might make you feel out of your depth but he takes the time with the Characters and you'll gain understanding before moving on to the next Characters. Erickson kinda cycles the Characters non stop.

[@Michael_L_Morrison]

@@slowlyred2082 Good to know. Thanks!

[@slowlyred2082]

I'll definitely be interested to hear back from you, if you break into it. I always like to hear different takes

[@Yuuzhanvon]

Inchoroi remind me a little bit of the Yuuzhan Vong from Star Wars, with the whole skin grafting.

[@slowlyred2082]

The New Jedi Order series was dope. Ganner Rhysode is my dude

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Not gonna lie, I've tried reading this book twice and it felt like I was trying to decipher ancient hieroglyphics. I'll have to set aside time to commit nothing but this series some time in the future and activate my 300 IQ mode to get through it properly haha.

[@slowlyred2082]

They can be a lot of work, but I always found the rewards worth it. And in the end I became die hard

[@zakgraham1283]

I guess everyone’s definition of “spoiler” is different

[@slowlyred2082]

This can be true 👍

[@mrgauth]

Man, I really tried to read this but the prose was just to much. Came across as pretentious and I found I spent more time trying to analyze the way he said something rather than what he said. Reckon I am just not smart enough for this writer. Not writer's fault; mine.

[@slowlyred2082]

It's definitely a tall ask at times. Bakker can get very dense but it just seem to be hitting me in the right way. I ended up enjoying the massive amount of introspection in the pages. But I can also see where it can easily sweep people up in confusion or just become laborious in reading.

[@bernhardrenner5176]

Awesome review as always! The Darkness That Comes Before was a very promising start of the series to me and I liked it a lot. Unfortunately it got worse and worse in the sequels for me. All the characters except Kellhus became trapped and whiny shadows of themselves and in The Thousandfold Thought there was no characerization left I care about. Kellhus annoyed me from the start and that didn't improve in the sequels. I'm a character driven reader and the philosophy and story wasn't interesting enough for me to compensate the missing characterization. The absence of humour didn't help either. I hope you enjoy the sequels way more than me.

[@slowlyred2082]

Thank you, I've heard a bit of mixed feelings on the series. Currently I'm still loving it on book 2.. also most the characters I like are the worst people in the book, I can't say because I want to be buddies with them but they feel real and terrifying...which I really like

[@kardsufur2966]

arguably the greatest series of all time even though it's a huge rip off of Dune but in a good way

[@slowlyred2082]

I definitely got Dune vibes while reading. I honestly told my friends that like Dune that they'd probably like this one. I love the Dune saga but I think im gonna be a little daring here and say I'm liking Prince of Nothing more.

[@kardsufur2966]

yeah the Dunyain are basically the bene gesserit equivalents, the Consult are sort of tweilaxu / ixians / honored matres hybrid. Kellhus is basically Muad'dib / paul atreides. They even have the equivalent of 'mentats' and go into their 'logic trance' just like mentats do. The arc of the series is also same as book 1 of Dune in how Kellhus comes to become the figurehead of a native/aboriginal people against the 'empire' just like paul atreides did in Dune. And I agree while I love dune I would argue I loved this even more cus it took everything Dune had and upped it even a notch higher in some ways and as a written book, in terms of prose and the writing it's infinitely better. Herbert the journalist was NOT known for his prose which was workmanlike and pedestrian by comparison whereas Bakker while not everyone's taste, his prose is very advanced and on another level

[@slowlyred2082]

@@kardsufur2966 definitely agree on their different writing styles. Herbert is constantly hitting you with the information, while Bakker makes you find the information. I love both authors.

[@THX-bz8bi]

Its not a dune rip off its (SPOILER) a corruption arc. While dune had popularize this, bakker admits that uses some elements from dune as inspiration his work.

[@anlemeinthegame1637]

I would warn readers that this series has a TON of racism and misogyny baked in. You could argue that this just reflects the grimdark setting, but this could still be off-putting. Example: In the first two books, it is difficult to point to a named female character that doesn't suffer a violent death and/or sexual assault.

[@slowlyred2082]

I do mention the treatment of women in this review and I would say the premise of the books revolving around a holy war would imply that there will be people who hate each others cultures. It's definitely not for those seeking a comfy and uplifting tale.

[@Red21Viper]

What do you mean by racism?

[@ajpend]

Kinda spoilerish.

[@slowlyred2082]

I do go way more in depth, but if you read the book I think you'll see why the need to explain more. As well as find that with everything I've said nothing will be truly spoiled. This is a dense read with massive scope that can definitely confuse readers as well as overwhelm them.

[@SuperSuperdude88]

i read a bunch of reviews and reddit posts on how dark and depressing this book was and how women are treated awfully.... i mean it really isnt that bad? i think some of these reviewers have only read sun shiny upbeat books? this seems pretty much par for grim dark books? i dunno. im reading this now and it is in no way depressing me, or is it too dark??? ive definitely read a LOT more darker books than this. its quite tame honestly.

[@slowlyred2082]

The overall series continues to get darker with each book. But I do agree that book one gets way more criticism than it should. Even my own criticisms washed away when I spent a little more time in the world. Earwa is a brutal place to be

[@Red21Viper]

This is not a classic grimdark series that you get thrown to violence and stuff. It is a realustic ongoing progression into bleakness, tribulations amd disturbance. By the end it will not feel like the rest of the genre...