The Dead Sea Scrolls: Judaism on the Eve of Christianity (Prof. Lawrence H. Schiffman)

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[@TedBruckner]

Fact: the Dead Sea scrolls and the Samaritan Pentateuch agree more with the Greek translation of the Seventy/“Septuagint” interpreters than they do with the Masoretic Text.

[@michielvdvlies3315]

correct Masoretic text is changed/forced to make shem into melchezidek

[@LawOfNonContradiction]

False. Masoretic text aligns more with dead sea scrolls than any other text. "most of the Qumran fragments can be classified as being closer to the Masoretic Text than to any other text group that has survived." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text#:~:text=The%20text%20of%20the%20Dead,text%20group%20that%20has%20survived.

[@jajanesaddictions]

I love History. L.S. still has that energy and sense of humor he is famous for. I enjoy him as a person and a scholar.

[@chrissscottt]

How can a lecture theater be designed to have the projector beaming light into the speaker's face?

[@neilhobson3624]

It might be divine light 🤪👍. ( joke)🇬🇧. 🇳🇮.

[@frankandstern8803]

I think people are making a mistake in casting judgement upon Schiffman due to their lack of understanding . The understanding that his conclusions are based upon a study of the material and not the feelings of those WHO HAVENT.

[@Hkepfer]

A+ for articulate language and process.

[@TyroneBeiron]

Prof Schiffman's frequent use of the word 'canon' in referring to the Jewish library of religious texts (Bible, in all three parts) versus what were 'general literature', requires proper elaboration by him. We don't have evidence of the 'general literature' being available outside of religious communities or sects, and what is quoted by the rabbis in their commentaries alone cannot be the sole authoritative means of defining canon, because then you need to identify which commentaries are 'authoritative'. So, going further back to the days of the Temple worship in Jerusalem around the time of Herod the Great, was there any evidence by tradition or other record of an established Jewish canon apart from the Tanakh or Torah (Law)? I think therefore his usage of canon in this lecture is somewhat ambiguous, but does not diminish the value of the content he presented.

[@lornss9405]

big difference of presentation by Prof. Lawrence versus in 2008 who presented somewhat different (what changed his views on christianity?)

[@dmalane]

Great Lecture!!!

[@mattaikay925]

Amazing scholar Amazing lecture

[@frankandstern8803]

Love the accent. Reminds me of a voice actor of a Ralph Bakshi movie. Luv it. Hey Shiffman,,,,,,,,,,,Brooklyn or Queens? LOL

[@readu100]

According to Schiffman , 30:20min "Persher"- Dead sea scroll's own kind of contemporising interpretation which has a lot in common with the fulfillment kind in the gospels. It's a bit different, in that the fulfillment method says this is what this prophet meant and now it is being fulfilled. Whereas the Persher method says the prophet couldn't even understand his prophecy. The teacher of righteousness the leader of the sect, interprets the words and now we understand what it means for our time. There is a two stage prophecy idea , there is a prophet and then there is an exegesis which is what makes the prophecy work. the original prophets didn't know what they were talking about. According to Schiffman, this is not the same as the fulfillment method in the new testament because in the NT they assumed the one prophesying is what would actually happen. The Persher method is no longer a intrepretation method in judaism. I question Schiffman's arguement because if you carefully read OT prophetic passages in the NT you can see the authors of the gospels are contemporising the passage. The OT passages are pulled out of its context and made to refer to Jesus. Furthermore you can see the Persher method applied when Jesus after his resurrection appeared to his disciples and explained OT prophetic passages concerning himself. "‘How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?’And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself." -Luke 24:25-27 Perhaps the teacher of righteous (the leader of the qumran sect) was Jesus himself. ?

[@Enki35Productions]

In the end of this lecture ,the Professor states that there weren't any ideologies that were floating around of the belief of the Iranians within these sects. Now I do not agree with this; However, I think because of his Judaical belief, he does not want to state where it came from. This would have come through the Jews themselves out of Babylon comparing Zoroastrianism With Cyrus the Great, during their captivity and postexilic. He knows this, but will not state this. Because then the whole Idea of the God over Babylon, which compares perfectly with the Jews God would be recognized. Very deep subject. Great lecture, and thank you for posting the upload.

[@EliezerPennywhistler]

+Enki35Productions The Zoroastrians believed that the universe was dualistic, that it was made up of two distinct parts. One was good and light and the other evil and dark. Cosmic history was simply the epic battle between these two divine forces; at the end of time, a climactic battle would decide once and for all which of the two would dominate the universe. Human beings, in everything they do, participated in this struggle; all the gods and all the religions were part of this epic, almost eternal battle. That is Christianity - not Judaism.

[@EliezerPennywhistler]

+Enki35Productions "In the end of this lecture ,the Professor states that there weren't any ideologies that were floating around of the belief of the Iranians within these sects." He did not say that. Or anything like that. Listen again.

[@noitnettaattention]

+Eliezer Pennywhistler """That is Christianity - not Judaism."""....Really ? so you effectively eliminated Judaism out of this and put it on Christianity allll the accusation of Zoroastrianism taking the same stance in that case as your opponent you replied ! is it possible that you are just HYPOCRITE ?

[@EliezerPennywhistler]

Zoroastrians believe that the world is battle ground between good and evil forces. Xtians do too - Satan, Hell, the whole nine yards. In the Zoroastrian afterlife those who did more evil than good go to hell FOREVER. Just like Xtianity. And NOT like Judaism.

[@noitnettaattention]

Eliezer Pennywhistler """ Zoroastrians believe that the world is battle ground between good and evil forces. Xtians do too - Satan,"""....You are WELCOME to refuse or make argument of anything you wish , or whatever you don't accept, but at least refute it with ACCURACY ! """Hell, the whole nine yards."""....GEHINOM and Eternal SEPARATION from God is the HELL ! is the CHRISTIAN teaching (does this sound familiar to you?) ! """In the Zoroastrian afterlife those who did more EVIL than GOOD go to hell forever. Just like Xtianity."""....AGAIN,first check your facts straight ! don't worry you will not suddenly become Notzrim if you know and express your knowledge ACCURATELY ! let me know if should i correct you or you will do it yourself ? """NOT like Judaism"""....Which 'Judaism' ? there are many ones !

[@cheerstopoland]

For just one of many many sects he surely devotes a lot of energy to proving how the Essenes were just Essenoid/Humanoid type of marginal thing - he's working rhetorically on discrediting Jesus in front of the priest grinning ever so carefree... TYPICAL

[@travisbickle8748]

They're sneaky the rabbis are

[@docastrov9013]

From my lay perspective the possibility of Jesus and his followers being Essenes seems a possibility. I'm not sure why that would be a problem to Jew or Christian.

[@andrewternet8370]

@@docastrov9013Jesus was not an Essene. He would not have endorsed the Pharisees as “sitting in the seat of Moses” if He was. St Paul most definitely was not an Essene. He would not have preached to Gentiles if he was.

[@StNicolausVI]

I do not think that this professor has ever read the Church Fathers.

[@benjizollman6626]

My dear same as the Church fathers had hardly read anything from RaMBaM - or they mere know who that was. it is much more of a praise and respect for a mere intention to discuss common issues together, for both denominations, than to make one more fruitless attempt to persuade each other in thruthfulness of their point of view.

[@tallmikbcroft6937]

I guess they have found a fragment of Esrter. Now they have every book ( or fragments) Can't find source... Sorry

[@Bro_TD]

> 19:41

[@peteyny]

Who else can see through this man......

[@AM-qv9yf]

Will never happen. Especially since they have the Tanak and Christains don't. . Christaibs have an Old and New Testament. Not the same book. Kind of like a KJV up agaist a NWT.

[@carlharmeling512]

Since the Essenes are not mentioned in the Gospels it is possible that is because it was former Essenes who actually composed it. To claim authorship would have been an act of extreme arrogance to a pious Jew. They intentionally wrote themselves out of the story. The Gospels were written in the same literary tradition as the Old Testament; dramatized fiction.

[@andrewternet8370]

I highly doubt the Essenes would’ve supported the idea of plucking grain to eat on the Sabbath because the Sabbath was made for man.

[@carlharmeling512]

@@andrewternet8370 The Essenes I’m talking about were renegades from the cult that Jesus essentially rescued from the tyranny of the Qumran community.

[@andrewternet8370]

@@carlharmeling512 So you think former Essenes, who are no longer Essenic(?), formed the Christian community? Suffice to say you’re far down the rabbit hole of speculation.

[@carlharmeling512]

@@andrewternet8370 It was those former Essenes, scribes by profession and Old Testament scholars who knew Jesus personally and knew his doctrine perfectly who wrote what we now have of the bio of Jesus and his teachings.

[@andrewternet8370]

@@carlharmeling512 I heavily doubt any Essene would write something as audacious as “In saying so He made all things clean”.

[@marcolima810]

He al ready come our father from the east en heavenly mother Jeruzalem coming to (galation 4:26) (REVOLUTION 21:9-10)

[@ChiliMcFly1]

Lawrence sounds debriefed ?

[@EliezerPennywhistler]

+ChiliMcFly1 He is the briefer.

[@WOODR52]

JESUS PROBABLY HAD A TWIN BROTHER. IF THIS WAS REAL, ALL PEOPLE ON THE PLANET WOULD HAVE THE SAME BELIEFS. GOD EXISTS ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE A SPECIES THAT IS AWARE OF OUR OWN MORTALITY. NO ONE KNOWS WHO-WHAT-WHEN-WHERE-WHY WE EVEN EXIST.

[@watermelonlalala]

Somebody probably planted the fragments at Masada so the Jews who make their livings on the Dead Sea Scrolls could talk about Jews instead of Christians.

[@stonewallbaron09]

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read in a while. Thank you

[@Freezencrash]

I find the man offensive.

[@ednegron07]

get over it cry baby i find you being offended offensive do you care ? no ...

[@Freezencrash]

It's always amazing to me how some commenters read so much into so few words and then are so sure of it.

[@realherbalism1017]

I refer everyone here to Stephen Skinner's "Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian Magic". The Baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist bares a striking resemblance to the rite of the paredros wherein a magician acquires a magical familiar & becomes "a son of God". You may also refer to the PGM translated by Hans Dieter Betz.

[@blessedamerican3541]

Joel Bishop bears

[@realherbalism1017]

@@blessedamerican3541 I'm pretty sure "bare" means naked so if I bare myself I'm revealing myself. So when I say "bares a striking resemblance" I'm saying "reveals a striking resemblance". I appreciate the correction though & I will definitely double check my grammar. EDIT: I was correct. So I'm sorry to say that your grammar was wrong, not mine.

[@andrewternet8370]

I’m pretty the baptism of St John is a baptism, instead of some weird pagan thing. St John did not invent baptism. It was and is a Jewish practice.

[@realherbalism1017]

@@andrewternet8370 Prior to Christianity, all religions were pagan including Judaism. In fact, Christianity is paganism too. The god that Jesus worships is not the the god of the ancient Israelites. All one has to do is compare the god Jesus speaks about to Yahweh in the old testament & you can immediately see the difference.

[@andrewternet8370]

@@realherbalism1017 lmao Marcionite

[@mariabuttigieg223]

jewishconvivenza