The Deadliest Plane Crash Coverup: Erebus Disaster

[@johnstirling6597]

The younger brother, (17) of my oldest friend was on the flight. He was gifted the ticket by friends and on arrival at the airport realised he had left his ticket at home, raced home and only just got back in time to make the flight. 43 years on and I sometimes reflect on the life never lived.

[@TK-fd3qt]

Somehow I wanna say that I am sorry, regardless that it hardly has any emotional connection to you. Horrible how many problems and coincidences he went through.. Just so he got the dirty end of the stick. Seriously sad to me :(

[@Captain_Gojira]

Very sorry 🙏

[@rextrek]

damm thats like a Final Destination thing....

[@darwinbruce59]

A man here in Timaru got first prize in a raffle ,this flight he had never been on a plane before.

[@michaeless882]

Condolences to all.

[@chrisrutherfurd9338]

My father was a flight engineer on the DC-10 and met Collins and the 901 crew in the briefing lounge in Auckland on the day. My dad flew to Australia and watched 901 depart in front of them. We didn't know where our dad had flown to and only saw reports of a lost ANZ plane. My mom was worried and made phone calls. When dad arrived home later on we all hugged him but he was quiet. He had lost friends that day. Sad sad history.

[@pirate3599]

I was a young 737-200 copilot in that day, parked next to NZ901, we took off just before them to samoa, will never forget it

[@jimmyjazz9014]

​@michaeless882 I believe QANTAS has the best safety record in the world. NAC/Air NZ also lost a DC3 in the Kaimai range in 1963? killing all on board and an F27 Friendship in the Manakau Harbour on final approach to Auckland - landed short of the runway. At least 1 fatality.

[@yyxy.oncesaid]

​@@michaeless882that's a myth.Qantas for 1 has a better record

[@dissimulii]

is it true the DC stands for Death Cruiser?

[@packrat76]

​@@dissimuliiDouglas Commercial.

[@julitt4317]

Mahon was a genuine martyr. This entire episode was shameful.

[@aidanhammer6968]

People who care know. Rest in peace and in memory.

[@pirate3599]

Mahon was honest, but out of his depth, way too respectful of the pilots, and im a pilot

[@pirate3599]

He was completely out of his depth, and too reverefull towards pilots , had little idea about the Captains responsibility for safe terrain clearance

[@SubvertTheState]

​@@pirate3599 that's the dispute. The white out effect was never communicated to the pilots. It's kind of obvious who's to blame. They're usually the ones shredding documents, ripping pages out of diaries and breaking into homes after something bad happens.

[@TheAwesomeTolga198]

​@pirate3599 Was his report not informed by sworn testimony from other plots? What about Gordon Vette's analysis? Was he out of his depth? Also, if he got clearance to descend, does that not change anything? I am admittedly not a pilot. I'm just curious.

[@GeneCaralde119workshop]

Peter Mahon was the light shining in the darkness. May he rest in eternal peace.

[@grahamyoung622]

Agreed, I read his book Verdict on Erebus quite a few years ago. Beggars belief how the Air NZ Management thought he would be a pushover and believe the 'orchestrated litany of lies' which they perpetrated (even when their own lawyers knew the case was well and truly lost). A shameful episode in Kiwi history. Cheers from NZ.

[@ADFeldbauer]

Its no doubt that Davis had full responsibility of the outcome. The history would continue with situations like TWA and US Air becoming things of the past due to greedy management. As a commercial pilot, I myself had tried to reconstruct the accident and do things exactly as Captain Collins did in 1979. May the 257 RIP and never be forgotten.

[@skippmclovan1135]

This makes me feel emotional. Thank you for saying that.

[@jamesm3471]

We lost several friends on that flight. Compared to the US and Europe, New Zealand is a very small, tight knit place. Had I been alive and on that side of the world back then, I’d have a blast getting to do something like this! That said, the way they tried to pin this on the flight crew is unconscionable. Though it is heartbreaking, I am grateful that people finally learned the truth.

[@kcbh24]

? I'm confused by your comment. Did your family lose friends since you weren't born yet? Are you from NZ?

[@jamesm3471]

Friends of the family, three of my mothers closest friends, two of them had gone to school with her in Canada, before returning to their native New Zealand. One was supposed to be my godmother, I was born 2 months after the crash. Our family is Canadian/American, but we still have many friends who live on the South Island of New Zealand, and we visit them often.

[@sleazymeezy]

​@jamesm3471 lying in the Internet doesn't make you cool.

[@ingridakerblom7577]

You compare New Zealand, a country, with a cooperation between many different countries, with different language, culture, religious beliefs, time zones etc You compere a continent with ONE smaller country.. 🤦‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

[@davechaffey3493]

@@ingridakerblom7577yes, I think that’s his point.

[@briannehammack1951]

My dad actually did 2 tours in Antarctica in the 70's and from what he has told me I can't beleive they even allowed this. It may seem exciting but you didn't really want to get stuck out there if something goes wrong.

[@c.w.8200]

I imagine there would be some sort of airfield for cargo planes but even then, could the research stations there have assisted a large number of people in case of a minor emergency? I wonder if they had a plan for such a case.

[@martink6092]

The low flying sightseeing not withstanding, it's no more dangerous than any long range ocean flight, and the shortest flight paths between Australia and South America pass directly over Antarctica.

[@pirate3599]

​@@martink6092yes, except for the highly unsafe part where you descend to 1500 feet VFR in a very dangerous part of the planet

[@bobbowie5334]

Not like you can call 9-11.

[@xdiamond7157]

Flying the 70’s was a pretty dangerous time, so them being able to do this doesn’t really surprise me

[@ZombieSazza]

As an aviation nerd I’m so glad this case is being covered Mahon was a true hero and he really did go down swinging, I’m glad the public supported him and understood how corrupt the system was. Families lost loved ones and the “justice” system was determined to protect the corrupt.

[@BBCharger5spd]

My father was in the US Navy assigned to McMurdo and was on the initial search and rescue team that found the 901 crash site - He was actually given a New Zealand Special Service Medal back in 2015 for it.

[@lealovesthesea]

It took them long enough to recognise him. It must have been a horrible mission. 😢

[@robinfautley8698]

Can I ask whether your father was told to search the area around Lewis Bay. The point is that if the flight path was overhead Mt Erebus, SAR should have been told of that, then SAR would have searched that area first of all. Fact - the crash site was not located for about 12 hours. Most of the searches were around McMurdo Sound which was the flight path Air NZ had been briefing as from 1978 onwards. It is the final evidence that Wilson and Johnson the RCU briefing officers were telling porkies as instructed by Gemmell to say the briefed flight path was overhead Erebus. Hopefully your father may have said they had not considered Mt Erebus. As for the often quoted MSAs, these were only for IFR flights. Collins was VFR but had not been trained re VFR in Antarctica. Another failing by Gemmell and Grundy. Gemmell and Kippenberger had been to operation deep freeze in 1969 and 1977 so should have trained the pilots of whiteout in Antarctica.

[@Gentlebreeze397]

@@lealovesthesea Watch the documentary on it.. it’s amazing .

[@Gentlebreeze397]

@@lealovesthesea kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqXJiYF6iJmgo6ssi=q7rKz83V9zL681sr

[@BBCharger5spd]

@@robinfautley8698 From what I remember my father mentioning they were searching in an area and didn't find anything so they expanded their search area. I can maybe ASSUME they were searching the designated flight path at first then moved off to Mt. Eribus where they ultimately located it.

[@BigBadJohn]

I’m an Avionics Technician and I’ve been one for over 20 years, I specialize in Comm/Nav. To this day everywhere I work management tends to make fun of what they perceive to be OCD but it actually goes back to my first years in the job in the military when we were upgrading our fighters Navigational equipment. One aircraft in particular wouldn’t align correctly and I kept sending a part back to Palmdale until it was perfect. In the end I was finally satisfied when I was able to get the variance down to one meter. About a year later our commander was in that Aircraft in bad weather in route to the Azores and it was able to take him right to the end of the runway even though he couldn’t see anything at all. He landed with his Nav, Instruments and RALT and he didn’t have enough fuel to mess around this aircraft was a special case because you couldn’t rely on Radar to aid you. I always reference that in my mind when people insist that I’m being too cautious. What troubles me is that caution isn’t valued in this industry at them moment but I hope some of this high profile mess with Boeing will see a return to a more careful approach, we are right back to dealing with the same issues that were faced in this unfortunate event because people have become complacent and they’re only concerned with price points.

[@waggawaggaaviation]

I remember being glued to the television that night as a child in Auckland, New Zealand had never experienced loss on that scale and it rocked the country. The following enquiry and cover ups were nothing short of disgraceful, I still feel for the poor police officers that were deployed there to recover the passengers bodies, what a living nightmare that would have been in Artic conditions without training or equipment. RIP

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

I also remember that very evening, as a teenager watching TV here in Christchurch. Earlier news updates had kept saying that contact with the plane had been lost, but that they carried extra fuel reserves, and that Radio communications around Antarctica can be lost at times. Comes a time, late in the evening, and it was reported on the TV news updates, that, even given a best case fuel use scenario, the plane must be "down" somewhere because it would have run out of fuel by now. For those of us going to bed before midnight, it would be the next morning when we heard the news of a crash-site being found. It is beyond disgraceful how senior Air NZ management (remember this was a Govt owned airline), including the NZ government officials including the Prime Minister himself, deliberately lied and obfuscated. There is no doubt that some of the interference and destruction of evidence that subsequently occurred, was carried out by literal "Secret Agents" being paid for by Air NZ directly or by someone else in the NZ Government. There's your tax dollars at work folks. Covering up a mass Homicide which was on the very border of Murder, meanwhile the people responsible laughed all the way to the bank on huge payouts. The then Chief Executive of Air NZ remained in his high paying job, for another 9 months from memory, before resigning, citing "lack of public support". Perhaps putting him in jail for 200 counts of Manslaughter would've wiped the smile off his face ?

[@zabaleta66]

​@@KiwiCatherineJemmaThat was a grim evening.

[@Commentator541]

Imagine living somewhere where 200 people died on a fabulous trip, and that is the worst thing that ever happened! :D

[@uhhhitszaide]

As an aviation nerd, I'm SO happy you made this. Keep up the excellent work, you make utterly fascinating videos.

[@Delta_NWAB747fan]

Agreed. Seeing the actual video from the inside is scary. All of those people happy flying on a perfectly operational DC-10-30 that had no idea the plane would not land and crash into the very mountain they planned to fly around. Definitely one of the most intriguing air disasters, and didn’t know some of the controversies around it. Rest. In. Piece. to the 257 people on Flight 901. The DC-10 itself is the memorial, pieces still bearing the air new zealand livery to this day.

[@elizabethroberts6215]

@@Delta_NWAB747fan……’Rest in Peace’ is better……

[@leannemorris4750]

My dad received a commendation award for his work on this. He passed away and us kids accepted his award 30 years later. He was one of the officers who had to try to piece body parts together. Awful job... trying to match a severed finger with a partial body etc. Like a terrible jigsaw puzzle. Thats what happens when you live in a small country with not enough forensics or time; they ask the police to help.

[@ralphboardman7443]

As mentioned, all those Police and the others there were traumatised. It was said "everyone in NZ knew someone who knew at least one victim". But we did get a benefit from it all: we discovered "systems errors": a series of mistakes, none of them terribly important in themselves, but in combination and sequence leads to disaster. The common name today is the "Swiss cheese" effect: a disaster that finds a way thru the holes in the cheese.

[@peternorton3399]

I flew on the first flight to Antarctica. I remember flying close to Erebus on the right hand side close enough to see smoke from the volcano. Someone far below signalled us with a mirror.

[@skippmclovan1135]

Yes, indeed. My uncle received back just one very small patch of my aunt's dress material (a bright red fabric with tiny white floral markings, which he could identify) and they gave him back her wedding ring. That was all. There was no mention of her finger, but one may just assume it was bearing the ring. Of her 21-year-old daughter, experiencing the birthday gift of her life coming of age, there was never any trace found of her whatsoever.

[@carlmanvers5009]

Growing up, 'An orchestrated litany of lies' was a phrase I heard on a seemingly daily basis for a long time. I still use it as a catch phrase to this day.

[@jrcather5196]

you talk about a lie look at the false globe construct they got us in

[@shauntempley9757]

Yes. It is disasters like these that show why NZ has a healthy dislike of business people. We gained our healthy dislike of politicians decades before this.

[@classesanytime]

I bet you use it a lot nowadays and that says a lot of what the world has become!!

[@bobzelley5100]

Conditions were clear that day my friend .

[@AngusMacKinnon-xm5ko]

I remember this crash vey well. A mate of mine who worked with me as a Forensic Photographer, and supported my work as a Senior Forensic Investigator on Victoria, is named as a victim of flight 901. My mate Ron was an avid aviator and photographer booked a seat on Flight 901 except that when he came to board that flight; his then fiancee complained bitterly and Ron decided not to go on that flight and due to the shortness in timing, he hadn't notified Air NZ that he would not be travelling. Ron however was still on the Passenger Manifest of flight 901 and as he later told us; is named on the memorial. Prior to this accident, I was also an avid fan not only of QANTAS but also Air NZ. Ron and I followed the MAHON Royal Commission intently and was absolutely LIVID at the outcome of the Royal Commission, and those two maggots PIGGY MULDOON, and Morrie DAVIS, who covered each other's backsides and blamed the Pilots and Mr MAHON's report. I hope that when those *two REPROBATES* faced the Judgement Seat of the *CREATOR,* they were reminded of the *EIGHTH COMMANDMENT:* *THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR*

[@Nick_J_]

What’s wild is, the “wrong” route makes more sense! Why the hell would you go directly over Erebus? Why not next to it?

[@maxhugen]

I was on the last flight to Antarctica before the Mt Erebus disaster. It was on a 747 flying from Sydney, as a fundraiser for charity that supported the families of people lost due to military service. After reaching Antarctica we were scheduled to fly East towards Mt Erebus, but with bad weather we diverted and looped West instead, over an Aussie base (Davis Station?) where the plane waggled it's wings and engaged via audio with the station, and then a French base (Law-Racoviță-Negoiță Station?). Fascinating trip, but sad after news of the NZ flight some months later. I had heard at the time that it was due to a whiteout, but knew nothing of the nav issues. FWIW, I'd point out that on our approach to Antarctica, we flew for quite some time over pack ice, and it seemed as though we were flying barely above the level of the flat tops of glacial icebergs embedded in the pack ice. A guessing comp was run, as to the height the 747 was flying. IIRC, it was around 600 feet! I believe we then rose to a somewhat higher level as we closed in to the Antarctica continent.

[@GarthWatkins-th3jt]

Thank you for posting. I just can't thank you and others enough. All the best to you with kind regards, Garth.

[@cr10001]

That would have been a Qantas flight?

[@maxhugen]

@@cr10001 I _think_ so... but decades later I don't trust my memory too much. The aircraft was a 747... and they even let us up to the open cockpit door to have a look inside. Awesome... switches and stuff even covering most of the "ceiling". 😎

[@tiadaid]

@@maxhugen Definitely it would have been a Qantas flight. Air New Zealand only flew DC-10s to Antarctica, and only got 747s in the early 1980s.

[@felixthecleaner8843]

'An orchestrated litany of lies' indeed. It was a great vid helping to unravel the mysteries of the Mt Erebus Air New Zealand crash. I did watch the film made about it about 10 years ago (or thereabouts) but it was difficult to follow fully because it was so intricate but I do recall the 'nasty stuff' generated by the Chief Executive Morrie Davis and the Lead Investigator Ron Chippendale who both blamed the pilot fully whilst knowing of *their own company's navigational errors* but not revealing this information to anyone. I think the expression is: 'Lower Than A Snakes Belly'. 'All-in-all amglimpse, an awesome vid.

[@brooklyndrive]

Disgraceful episode in NZ history.

[@cchris874]

Hard to prove, though, that the lies were "orchestrated." It just may have been haphazard lies, especially as many of the claims contradicted each other. But who knows.

[@PatriciaS-t1x]

I think they saw themselves as saviours. If they blamed a dead pilot they possibility thought it would be best. 1-Save Air NZ’s reputation. Blame 1 pilot. Stop people taking another airline. Fuel prices already a problem. ? Compensation? Humiliation, shame for all of them and everyone associated. Families. ? Insurance. Shame on our country. As it is that’s exactly what happened. Crime doesn’t pay. The only honest guy who stood up for the truth in spite of the hate towards himself Justice Mahon. He was the only true decent man there. He had a heart of gold, willing to suffer for the truth and the justice system. They attacked his loving heart , that’s why he died. I would give everything to be near a true man like him. God save him.

[@PatriciaS-t1x]

They attacked Justice Mahon’s loving heart and it gave him a heart attack

[@mikeskidmore6754]

I am not fully through this. What I do know is that the Pilot should have been @ 16,000 feet.. They had multiple warnings from plane radar that they were too low. Amazing there had been a two degree error 27 miles off course coordinates for 2 years that were just corrected before this flight ..

[@deanothemanc5281]

Brilliant narration, Peter Mahon is a hero. My father met him in the early 80s, he said he was a lovely bloke.

[@charliebarcampos776]

I don't know how your channel hasn't blown up. Your graphics are great and you speak eloquently. Keep up the work!!!

[@scottlewisparsons9551]

Thank you for a very informative video. I am a kiwi from Wellington, at the time of the crash I was living in London. I have always thought that sightseeing trips to Antartica were not a good idea and still think this is applicable now. My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that both Air New Zealand and the government behaved appallingly. All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺

[@danieleyre8913]

Yeah not a good idea. Just like allowing tourists on volcanic White Island. Or getting cowboys to build an observation deck for DoC. Or letting some cowboy from Australia build a coal mine on an unstable seam…

[@scottlewisparsons9551]

@@danieleyre8913 yes. White Island has never been a good place to visit. I was surprised to hear that they took tour groups there. All you need to do is look at the history of the place. Anything for $$$.

[@woodenseagull1899]

The DC10 reputation had a" Death wish " placed on it. There were many crashes with that aircraft during that time..

[@scottlewisparsons9551]

@@woodenseagull1899 this time though the aircraft was fine. The problem was human input into the computer and failing to tell the pilots of the changes. Blaming the pilots and then covering everything up with a litany of lies!

[@karenstratton4878]

As a fellow kiwi I think it was what we expected of Muldoon sadly

[@jdnchar]

Wow, absolutely AMAZING work. Please make more mini-documentaries! SUCH an interesting story in every way. So tragic though, and it’s more than sad it took this long for them to publicly apologize.

[@jdnchar]

Them being the NZ government and AirNZ

[@moirapettifr7127]

Those years were tragic for aviation. I was in a daze that whole year and it seemed like the entire world was in one big funk. We had Tenerife, the Pacific Air disaster, then Jonestown, the Chicago air crash 191, and omg then Mt Erebus. It was the saddest year ever.

[@Ken_oh545]

Jonestown was not an air disaster.

[@moirapettifr7127]

@Ken_oh545 it technically was not a crash but they were trying to get out in that small plane when it was ambushed. So you are right.

[@lealovesthesea]

@@Ken_oh545yeah I think they’re just naming a serious if tragic and traumatic events.

[@johnnybro15155]

Our neighbour Miss Plummer took her father on this fateful trip as a special surprise birthday present. Her Morris 1000 car sat at the airport for quite some time before they realized who had owned it.

[@krautyvonlederhosen]

There are many instances of aircraft literally flying onto the terrain in arctic areas. In Greenland during WWII, a PBY flying along, rapidly began to lose airspeed. As the pilot throttled up and attempted to rise, the plane eventually stopped. The crew emerged unscathed yet bewildered. They had flown onto smooth ice.Their elation at being alive after “crashing” was short lived. It was another 3 weeks before rescue. Visibility @ the time of the incident was excellent. They had no radio altimeter or radar though.

[@AbdiPianoChannel]

Here in Canada during the winter the white out and the fog create extremely dangerous driving conditions let alone flying giant plane with passengers. I'm a truck driver, when conditions change on the road we don't take chances. If you can't see stop in safe area. That rule must apply to the pilots. You can't see don't go near the ground.

[@JudyHart1]

Do you Trucker Josh (KZbin) from Winnipeg? Nice guy.

[@derp195]

That’s not what the issue was. He was told visibility was good, and their waypoints directed him directly into the mountain.

[@karenstratton4878]

​@@derp195exactly

[@BornToPeeForcedToDrinkIt]

How do you “stop in a safe area” in a passenger plane? You can’t exactly just pull that thing over to the curb.

[@cindytinney7263]

You are 100 percent right. As a former (female) truck driver I was often called chicken for not driving beyond my abilities no matter what. My rule first do no harm. IT has served me well. I retired and not in a body bag.

[@YellowReason]

Such an underrated channel. Your retelling of the facts is always thrilling and you have a real knack for finding fascinatingly under-told stories. Cant wait for the next upload!

[@tashibalampkin8555]

19:49 Of course, the report blames the dead pilot. He's not gonna say anything.

[@archieohare]

Are you really surprised by the fact that such a large company covers up for its mistakes and the government covers up for the company? Come on, money must flow!

[@KylieMackLA]

The Government WAS the company - at the time AIR NZ was owned in full by the NZ Gov. The NZ Gov is still the majority shareholder now in 2024. And if that's not enough, the current Prime Minister is the former CEO of Air NZ....

[@captainsensiblejr.]

Former Archives New Zealand archivist here. I vividly remember being told PERSONALLY, in 2002, before I worked for our national archives, about Mount Erebus records being "disappeared". I was told by a person in charge of an appraisal and disposal project involving physical, paper Police Records, about the event that happened only TWO weeks before I spoke to them. This was about late July or early August in 2002, when there was an appraisal and listing project involving thousands of boxes of Police Records for a subsequent Retention and Disposition of those records for an accession of the archival value records into Archives New Zealand custody. This listing project of physical records was relatively normal at the time. It was absolutely necessary to list all the file parts in every file box to compare the records marked for retention or destruction against an official Police Records Retention and Disposal schedule. The Police records marked for retention were to be transferred into the custody of Archives New Zealand. The thousands of boxes of poorly listed records dated from a time when government departments in New Zealand were completely inadequately listed, as was too often typical of the time. They were inadequately stored in a rented garage behind a padlocked wooden garage door in Newtown, Wellington. During this appraisal and disposal project, on a Friday afternoon, the listing team came across two records boxes that were both PARTIALLY - not completely - filled with files labelled " Mount Erebus Air Crash" . Considering how important the Mount Erebus crash is in New Zealand history, this was reported to the New Zealand Police records manager, because they were outside the coverage by the Police Records retention and disposal schedule. The Mount Erebus files were found on a Friday afternoon, the listing stopped about four p.m., I believe. On Monday morning, the Mount Erebus files and ONLY those files, were found to be MISSING from the two boxes. The non- Erebus files were still there. The padlocked door was STILL PADLOCKED when the team arrived three days later. I remember the long pause as my informant looked into my eyes as we both considered the implications. Both of us had no doubt that either a senior member of the New Zealand Police or a member of our Security Intelligence Services, removed archives of one of the most significant historical events in our country's history from public view

[@moirapettifr7127]

Your testimony is very important. There's really no reason to hide anything about this tragedy anymore. In fact it might console families to this day, to know the truth, no matter how traumatic or sad.

[@android584]

Do you wonder why "anti vaxxers" and "conspiracy theorists" exist?

[@Defectedinthehouse89]

Well ask yourself why. This air disaster shown much more than what you think. That is spherical based models and standard INS navigation in antartica doesnt work and you can find yourself 100s of miles away from the pre defined route. Thats what happened, the mathematics is wrong, they learned, the navy and us air force knew. Simply thats top secret as it would make fall many scientific pillars. Probably the documents they made disappear to an expert scientist and expert of inertial navigation system would have allowed to reconstruct some sort of "correct" model.

[@orbitboi63]

Thank you for covering this. I was 16 years old when this happen. This affect us so badly & it still does today.

[@GodzillaRodeo]

Its a shame youtube hides these videos. they are amazing, been watching since your first one.

[@0therun1t21]

This must have been international news but I don't remember it. Maybe it was because I was on the road and didn't see much tv in 79 so thank you very much for covering it. I'm glad the truth came out but I wish the victim's families had been treated better. The footage of the passengers is haunting, at least they had a nice time and got to see Antarctica, and hopefully had no time to panic, may their souls be at peace.

[@geraldmartin7703]

Unless it's recovered footage I believe it was from a prior flight.

[@molly9582]

@@geraldmartin7703It is recovered footage from the accident flight, in fact. You can watch the full recovered footage elsewhere on KZbin.

[@WestCoastAce27]

In the US we got the crash coverage. But I too don’t remember the inquiry and coverup.

[@robertmitchell6080]

I remember it vividly, living in Roseneath, right in front of the flight path to Wellington Airport. When they announced the plane was missing, you new it had crashed and all would be dead. I always wanted to go on one of those flights, but knew that would be the last one, sadly.

[@djpalindrome]

You send a group of untrained policemen into that hellscape to chip body parts out of the ice, then don’t give them enough water? Then don’t offer them counseling after their ordeal? Criminally irresponsible

[@gregory8282]

Those senior management people SHOULD have been jailed for life..... As for the high court judges, it's amazing how justice can be ignored when big money is involved.

[@danieleyre8913]

It was really a government cover up.

[@SeargentBarnes]

Morrie Davis and Muldoon were corrupt to the core all in cohorts to blame the pilots (and their own chief justice that they themselves appointed). Davis then received a "golden parachute" and resigned/retired with full benefits and pension. You even had huge divisions in the ALPA with pilots blaming each other and some lying and some telling the truth. The only good thing to come out of this was Gordon Vettes in depth work on "Sector whiteout" that has transformed aviation safety. On a side not, jeez the DC-10 really had a bad decade in the 70's so many accidents. Sad as it was a beautiful bird.

[@garymoore2535]

It is ridiculous to state that anyone should be jailed for life. Firstly, the disaster was entirely an accident, nobody foresaw it occurring and would have prevented it if they had. Secondly, there were multiple causes of the accident, each on their own would likely NOT caused the crash. It was the combination combining together that proved so deadly. To err is to be human and sometimes the best we can do is to learn from mistakes to prevent them happening again. My sincere condolences to those who lost family and friends ❤

[@danieleyre8913]

@@garymoore2535 What absolute nonsense. The accident was entirely preventable, to even think it wasn’t is completely idiotic. It was caused by a cowboy ignoring of proper procedure culture among the organisation and poor internal communications. Of course people were entirely responsible, not least that dreadful incompetent Morrie Davis.

[@sarahfranssen]

Today those responsible would be jailed for negligence as has happened in other countries over air crashes including air traffic controllers.

[@nightlywhisperss1303]

I’m a New Zealander and I’ve never heard of this case! Thank you for your hard work and your awesome channel. I always look forward to your videos!

[@gangstagarf]

i promise i mean this in a respectful manner but as a fellow kiwi, you must be young haha

[@nightlywhisperss1303]

@@gangstagarf I’m late 20s, so I guess so!

[@orbitboi63]

May I ask your age? I remember this like it was yesterday. Kapai

[@mortal-enemy]

​@gangstagarf I was born in the early 90s and have never heard of this case before either, other than people like my parents mentioning it in passing a couple of times. I'm surprised it isn't taught in schools, or social studies classes at the very least.

[@williamrae9954]

I've only done 5 x 5mths seasons in NZ,and I've heard plenty about it...guess reading newspapers helps

[@DevDawg323]

Every time I watch one of your videos, I am SHOCKED that you don’t have more subscribers! Wishing you all the success in the world man! Seriously top-tier content

[@stevegibb6421]

Well done. The pilots were programmed to fly one route and the aircraft another. I flew as a commercial pilot for many years in the NZ mountains and glaciers and can assure you that whiteout is very common and part of the job, as is the task of balancing passenger expectation with safety in a challenging and ever changing environment. I have seen footage shot by the National Film Unit from the ground at Scott Base of an ANZ DC 10 flying over in clear conditions at 1500ft

[@bellablue6818]

The fact that this channel is still small is insane!! Always so high quality.

[@jacobleetaylor]

Yet again another top tier quality video, keep it up guys one day soon this channel is sure to explode, I’ve said it before but this content 100% deserves a million subscribers

[@gregorydodwell3895]

As a Nursing student - for our Disaster Nursing subject - we saw a training film with graphic footage of retrieval and identification of the remains - by their dental records. I remember colleagues weeping at the screening.

[@zippersocks]

Excellent coverage on this topic. Your content is amazing and we appreciate your hard work.

[@jimmyjazz9014]

I, along with a friend intended to take that flight to the ice. Because we were "unorganized " we missed out on seats. I know a person who gave up their seat as a favor to a friend believing they could go a a flight the following year. They still feel guilty after all these years. I later worked with Capt Collins sister who shared some of the underhanded incidents post crash. This was a shocking cover up and should never be let slip away. Corporate and Government scandal!!! I purchased the report when it was released.

[@XedricPlays]

Great Documentary man you did well RIP to all the Lives Changed and lost in this tragedy :(

[@littlespinycactus]

I can only imagine how much time and effort went into making this excellent video. Thank you for your hard work -this outstanding deep dive answered many of my lingering questions about a most infamous tragedy .

[@robinfautley8698]

Air New Zealand had originally been overseen by Civil Aviation Department that required the MSA of 16,000 feet to clear Mt Erebus. That was early 1977. Later, the MSA of 6,000 feet after passing Mt Erebus was authorised by CAD. However that was for IFR. Most of the 14 flights were conducted in good weather and VFR. These MSAs were not briefed as prohibited to descend below. The truth was that the pilots could accept ATC advice from the US Navy controllers to descend. Traffic separation was required due to many other flights into and out of McMurdo’s Williams Field. Following Hewitts coordinate error of 164.48 instead of 166.48 for 1978/9 flights, the flight path thereafter was down the middle of McMurdo Sound and perfect for the USNavy ATC. Air New Zealand briefed the pilots thereafter this flight path. The passengers brochures and programmes reproduced this flight path. The Brizendine article published by Air NZ confirmed. The directors meeting briefing on 5th December 1979 by Davis was that the crash site was well left of track. That flight path as briefed, being in the middle of McMurdo Sound and the crash site 27 miles well left of track. Final proof to me that Air New Zealand and many executives lied about the “over Mt. Erebus” flight path was the absence of directions to the Search and Rescue aircraft to search initially the “over Mt Erebus” alleged flight path. The dog that did not bark in the night (Sherlock Holmes). Air New Zealand executives had not had chief orchestrator, Des Dalgety, able to cover up this absence of action, although the document shredding order, following earlier US cover up tactics was swiftly implemented. As for the legals, I am surprised that even now, the true translation of “Orchestrated Litany of Lies” is not conspiracy where several people go into a huddle to make up a false tale. Orchestration is composing or adapting usually by one person. The litany is the response by a congregation in a religious service, to the words of the priest conducting the service. The Air NZ executives did not need to be instructed by Dalgety, they knew the consequences for themselves (loss of jobs and airline) if they did not assist the “Blame the Pilots” theory /opinion that was so well constructed by Ron Chippindale. The NZ Appeal court Judges including parents of employees of Air NZ was appalling. Woodhouse and McMullin were a disgrace for not recusing. Technically they should have been sacked exactly as Bill Wilson was later from the NZ High Court for the same thing. Look it up. The Privy Council chairman Lord Diplock contradicted his own 1975 judgment about Natural Justice but he had been pressurised by the UK government (as requested by Muldoon) to continue to absolve Air NZ. Another Privy Council judge was Lord Bridge who made one of the worst speeches effectively condemning the Birmingham Six in the UK. At the time one of the biggest miscarriages of Justice as they were all innocent but the police had fabricated false evidence against the Birmingham six. Rather like the police in the Crewe Murders and Arthur Thomas stitched up for a murder he never committed. That led to the Taylor report and the Judicial reviews that went parallel with Peter Mahon’s royal commission.

[@yasho.]

you may be the best channel in this category with your unique style...keep up ❤

[@RindaJane]

I was 15 when this tragedy happened. I remember my parents talking about it. I loved anything about aviation and still do. Yet, flying is my least favorite thing to do. Odd huh?? Rest in Peace 🕊️ Stay safe out there everyone 🙏 Much love from North Carolina 🌷

[@aicerg]

Glad to see I'm not a strange specimen. I'm fascinated by aviation and airplanes, but I hate flying so much.

[@skippmclovan1135]

Duncan McMullin was originally a Crown prosecuting lawyer from Hamilton in the Waikato. He came to live on Remuera Road Auckland in a large two storied house high up on the rise between Upland Road and Meadowbank with a very commanding view over the northern slopes of Auckland's most prestigious suburb. I knew him personally. He was always a company man. Justice Mahon I would see on a number of occasions, after the disgraceful incident, walking along this same Remuera Road for daily exercise, as was his want, his head cast downwards towards the footpath. He bore the look of a broken man. My heart went out to him. I had served in his Court, and I knew him to be as good and fair a man as I had ever met. I gave up the law after this incident in New Zealand's jurisprudence, because I had seen how thoroughly terminally and utterly it was corrupted. Two of my relatives, my 21-year-old cousin, and her mother my aunt, perished on Mount Erebus.

[@Juzdoit50]

A very good analytical summary of an iconic, and tragic moment in NZ history.

[@imetyourmother420]

Tragic yes. Iconic...?

[@tonyblackler3961]

I remember this very clearly, I remember Philip sherry the news reader reporting that an air new Zealand aircraft was overdue fron its flight over Antarctica. To this day I still believe there was a cover-up.

[@robertmatch6550]

At the time, my girlfriend was a Kiwi and we were touring around Washington, D.C. when this happened. It was a national shock to New Zealand, a young country with a strong identity of pride, competence, and self sufficiency.

[@qre268Zrtb]

To be fair, there was already a people inhabiting NZ, who had a very strong pride and identity.

[@primatt]

this video is incredibly well made, got me coming back for more!

[@Michaelthekiwi]

I was 7 years old when the crash happened, it was such big news in New Zealand - there was a teacher from a local school killed. It seemed so personal, like everyone knew someone who knew someone killed. Later on, I worked in the same department as one of Collins' daughter as an adult.

[@KylieMackLA]

I was six - are you from Wgtn? Miss Copley a teacher from our school Tawa Primary died in the crash. She was only 35 and on an exchange program from the UK - she spoke at assembly before she left, was so excited and the whole school was buzzing about her amazing adventure. "DC 10" was the first plane design we all learned, because Miss Copley was flying on one. If I remember correctly, she bought her ticket to celebrate a successful year teaching in NZ, she was going home to the UK after the trip. RIP Miss Copley.

[@uncleleo1873]

I've seen many "interpretations" of this disaster. Yours has your own take, talent, and oh wow eye opening. Please keep up your investigative work and above average production quality

[@yffadkcud]

The most disgusting aspect was blaming a dead pilot no longer able to defend himself from liars of air crash. Leaving his family to face such humiliation. God will avenge.

[@android584]

Napoleon said "history is a set of lies agreed upon".

[@CraigStCyrPlus]

Only 80 years prior to this, the antarctic air balloon expedition took place. Its almost unfathomable to assume the same species grew their technologies within 80 years to this level. From 25km/hr to 570km/hr.

[@colonthree]

To 0km/hr.

[@TheColorofQuantum]

This is absolutely insane. Very well done

[@JWUniverse]

Such a sad story RIP to all the victims… Hope the Widow got Justice for her Home being broken into! I really Hope the DC-10 gets a revival kind of like the 747-8 but call it the DC-12 with all 3 Engines being Fuel Efficient to fly from LA to London or LA to Paris. That would Awesome. Last time I flown on a DC-10 was 1999 when my Grandmother, Cousin, and I came back from Alabama to visit her Brother. It was a great Plane to fly on… This was just another Tragedy to add to its record!

[@NovejSpeed3]

It be cool but that will never happen. The complexities and higher maintenance costs alone would be why your DC12 would never sell. Engine tech has gotten so good "twins are in" Look at the giant 777X

[@cchris874]

They already tried that with the MD-11. A far bigger piece -of-s--t. Did you ever fly the almost identical Tristar? Its ceiling design made it feel more spacious than the DC-10.

[@michaelurch5788]

Brilliant documentary, subscribed!

[@YanestraAgain]

My personal big surprise with this matter is that even though I read and informed myself about that accident, I haven't ever heard of another explanation as the white-out theory. Thank you.

[@gavinkitchen1472]

I was 10 years old living in Sydney when this crash happened. It was pretty much the biggest story for a year. What made it even bigger, was the lack of explanation on why it happened. There had been air crashes before & after Erebus, but ANZ 901, was the one crash I remembered the most vividly because it was a rare air crash mystery for so long & living in Sydney, it was close to home. I remember a lot of News Reports on ANZ 901, I clearly remember the New Zealand Priminster- Robert Muldoon, & I remember where I was & what I was doing.

[@beckyf2845]

Fascinating and extremely well researched.

[@StephenLuke]

RIP To the passengers and crew of Air New Zealand Flight 901

[@vakash]

Every time i hear "Experience of a lifetime" promised. I automatically assume they mean death. This has kept me alive.

[@Roadent1241]

That's... Interesting logic. Can't disagree with it either. What's it supposed to mean, I wonder?

[@packrat76]

Do you ever ride a rollercoaster or elevator? 😂

[@elizabethroberts6215]

……book, ‘Impact: Erebus’ by Capt Gordon VETTE is well worth the read. If possible, also read in conjunction, Justice Peter Mahon’s book, ‘Verdict on Erebus’. Both are filled with factual information on this horrific crash, & disgraceful cover-up afterwards………

[@benjigray8690]

Not once did I feel like skipping to the end of this video. Thank you for making this extremely well researched video. some folks don't realise that it's vitally important to find out what caused an "incident", no matter how big or how small that "incident" was The reason is to try and avoid a repetition of it Inquiries are sometimes hampered because often, times, folks involved, or those responsible run for cover, and try to cover their arses.

[@E.Escharcha]

Should everyone who lied at the inquiry spend the rest of their lives in jail ? How about the airline executives ?

[@stephenestall9044]

And Prime Minister Muldoon - a very nasty piece of work

[@theosphilusthistler712]

Very well put together. Just a couple of pedantic points. NZ has no "federal government" and the average wage in 1979 was $157pw (which went pretty far.... I was paying $26pw rent in one of Auckland's most desirable areas).

[@tomnisen3358]

I made $250 to $300 a week while in high school in the United States.

[@leeweesquee]

​@@tomnisen3358your from the US?

[@metroplex3k]

Very pedantic indeed.

[@jackpowrie3]

@@tomnisen3358American not knowing the conversion rate of USD to NZ$, colour me shocked.

[@josephpacelli3691]

Darn shame the company blamed the Captain and the FO for their mistakes in this crash RIP to the crew and passengers who perished in this disaster and corruption

[@madlep]

I was a toddler in NZ when Erebus happened, so I don’t remember the event. But I do remember it being constantly a frequent news story for years afterwards as it dragged out.

[@stoveone4031]

Being a zoomer kiwi, I've heard so much about the Erebus Disaster but never 100% understood what happened until watching this video. Top notch content

[@DoubleMonoLR]

NZ made documentaries have always been around, there was even one just on the police who had to live on the mountain to investigate.

[@elizabethroberts6215]

@@DoubleMonoLR……& many of those Police had nervous breakdowns’ afterwards………

[@Pr4Hypertrophy]

Yes yes yes...a million times, yes...I do, to these long format videos! Please do more of them... I'll be here, I'm committed 😂

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

I also remember that very evening, as a teenager watching TV here in Christchurch. Earlier news updates had kept saying that contact with the plane had been lost, but that they carried extra fuel reserves, and that Radio communications around Antarctica can be lost at times. Comes a time, late in the evening, and it was reported on the TV news updates, that, even given a best case fuel use scenario, the plane must be "down" somewhere because it would have run out of fuel by now. For those of us going to bed before midnight, it would be the next morning when we heard the news of a crash-site being found. It is beyond disgraceful how senior Air NZ management (remember this was a Govt owned airline), including the NZ government officials including the Prime Minister himself, deliberately lied and obfuscated. There is no doubt that some of the interference and destruction of evidence that subsequently occurred, was carried out by literal "Secret Agents" being paid for by Air NZ directly or by someone else in the NZ Government. There's your tax dollars at work folks. Covering up a mass Homicide which was on the very border of Murder, meanwhile the people responsible laughed all the way to the bank on huge payouts. The then Chief Executive of Air NZ remained in his high paying job, for another 9 months from memory, before resigning, citing "lack of public support". Perhaps putting him in jail for 200 counts of Manslaughter would've wiped the smile off his face ?

[@PatriciaS-t1x]

Wasn’t it a poor flight co- ordinator that made some typing mistakes. He looked in shock. It could happen to anyone. Safe guards should be put in place.

[@rogerpattube]

It’s nowhere near the border of murder. Murder involves intent, not negligence.

[@KiwiCatherineJemma]

@@rogerpattube It is true that laws differ from place to place. New Zealand law allows "murder" to be laid as a charge if someone is extraordinarily careless or negligent. It is possible, indeed likely that laws in other countries are different.

[@MaxRank]

Worth noting the pilots didn’t enter waypoints from a flight plan like currently employed. The route was pre entered onto a cassette like tape and inserted into the AINS system. The pilot would simply hit NAV and the system would then follow the track.

[@miaflyer2376]

OK, but pilots need to verify and crosscheck on a map or plotting chart where those waypoints are taking them, especially across oceans where no airways are charted.

[@MaxRank]

@@miaflyer2376 they would have verified the waypoints matched the inputs in the nav system, but they didn’t create them anymore so than they do today. This the early days of inertial navigation right before GPS. Even if they had been using a CIVA system this would still have happened due to the coords being incorrect.

[@KylieMackLA]

@@miaflyer2376 The pilot's daughter testified he was mapping out the flight the night before he left - but remember the route he was checking was not the route programmed into the system. She showed where he told her he would be flying the next day, which she showed the judge on a map - it was not the course the flight took.

[@triplebeam23]

Man if I was gonna die in a plane crash this would be the best way to go.. your here one second the next your gone .. prayers to the friends and family 🙏

[@georgekaplan6451]

I was 11 at the time and I remember clearly listening to Radio 2ZB in Wellington. The report came over that the plane was missing. I called out to my parents in the next room and straight away they said "bet it's hit Erebus" Dad was an engineer that worked on Comets for BOAC. Mum had worked for the Tourist and Publicity Studio's in the 60's and knew Peter Mulgrew.

[@TheMagicCuber]

Thank you for covering this

[@SeargentBarnes]

Excellent Video, good to see this event is still being discussed and documented. One thing I have never understood regarding sector whiteout. If you look at the actual crash pictures, there is a clear huge black rocky part of the mountain visible that can be seen (almost one whole side of Erebus to the North east) its not totally covered in snow/ice, I wonder why that can't be seen to the naked eye during sector whiteout. Also does it seem strange to anyone to place a TACAN nav aide on the backside of 16000 ft Mountain, surely it should be placed in a direct line where no high terrain is in the way. Terribly sad event for NZ lest we forget.

[@playoffrondoW]

Idk how u get so few views. The quality is unbelievable! U deserve so much more subs!

[@zoomerboomer3109]

I have a huge amount of respect for those guys in the body recovery operation. My dad was freinds with a guy involved in it, he said this guy had the demeaner and look one of his uncles or my great grandfather who had fought in the korean war and WW1.

[@theblackwidowchronicles]

This was brilliant. Great work 👍

[@karenstratton4878]

An excellent book to read about this is Daughters of Erebus. Sets out the circumstances and real causes, as well as the cover-up

[@77leelg]

This was an excellent and unbiased presentation of a horrible tragedy that proved accident chains can be extremely complex. I studied this accident extensively including reading Mahon”s book. I have a copy of the atlas Captain Collins likely had with him. While I mostly agreed with Mahon I don’t think the flight crew was without responsibility. Captain Collins switched from IFR flight rules to VFR flight rules. Doing so required ascertaining the aircraft location using all available resources. I flew the exact flight plan on a simulator using very similar navigational equipment. It was very easy to plot the coordinates reported by the navigation system onto the map in the atlas prior to descending. The discrepancy in assumed vs actual location on the atlas was completely obvious and landmarks outside the windows did not match what was on the map. I assumed Collins did not perform a simple map cross check which is essential for VFR flying, His mistake had catastrophic consequences but his decision was just the final link in a long and complex chain. Well done!!

[@cchris874]

This was quite more informative than the other Erebus videos I've sseen but I think, left out two of the most significant factors: -the "sector whiteout" the crew experienced must certainly have created the insidious illusion of a horizon line in the distance, as illustrated by a photo taken a year later: No pilot of Collins' stature is going to fly towards a textureless solid white skyscape, as this video claims. -The controversial claim made by Gordon Vette that visual flight rules entitle you to use onboard navigation as a substitute for your own eyes. VFR as I understand it, means that before going below MSA you must first be able to see and establish a positive fix. But because of the cloud layers below them, they could not adequately do so. They must have assumed that the AINS was reliable because its accuracy had been confirmed just a half hour earlier. The weakest part of the Vette book is failure to mention this controversial use of AINS. I feel that to get to the bottom of the controversy, these issue must be adequately addressed.

[@michaelhayden5264]

What may have come out, but took a long time to be admitted was that their navigation way points had been changed so that instead of flying up the middle of McMurdo Sound it flew directly at Mt Erebus. In white-out conditions the mountain would have invisible. Having skied in white out i have some understanding of the problem.

[@moirapettifr7127]

If this was in the US there'd still be lawsuits in the billions over such a basic fubar. I doubt a US airline could have survived the massive litigation.

[@cchris874]

@@moirapettifr7127 In the US, a person who was never married can file for divorce and win.

[@Skarbro]

Never seen this channel before. I really enjoyed that video. Nice job 👍🏻

[@petesmith9472]

I saw the training film made of this event - particularly the body recovery and the science and procedures used to identify the bodies. It was as graphic as any medical imagery you could imagine. I was in the Australian Army at the time, so I have no idea why I was exposed to it

[@seetodk]

Disaster Victim Identification course? That’s why I saw it in the Army Reserves back in the 80’s.

[@yssyplanespotter]

This is absolutely f**king disgusting behaviour by those who were entrusted with such power! It essentially became a game of work politics at the end, trying to protect themselves, all whilst 257 families were just left in the dark. Absolute disgrace. Great video though!

[@magicfairy7805]

My daughter was only 4 weeks old at the time. I remember sitting up at night feeding her (I was in Nelson, New Zealand) and hearing the news come in. First the flight was late. Then it would have run out of fuel. And finally .. wreckage sighted. Up until then Air New Zealand was one of the safest airlines in the world. It rocked us. As did the subsequent enquiry. A friend of mine had a brother who was a policeman, sent down to put body parts in bags. It really affected him.

[@E-Kat]

Gosh, you're playing music in the background at the same time when you're talking to us. I wonder why? I've tried to watch it, but the music is so distracting, I had to abort it. Thank you. Around 3:40 the music dies down, ( as I'm writing this) and the program becomes a normal documentary. Maybe it will stay like that? 😊

[@E-Kat]

And the documentary is so much better without the music! I'm glad I had decided to write my comment, and continued watching whist writing. But I nearly didn't watch it, as I was so put off by the music. Thank you again.

[@cbdav2761]

As I get older I've realized that we have been lied to so much that there are only a few things I accept as the truth.

[@littlefishiesinthese]

This is such a well-produced video! Can't wait to watch the sub count on this channel boom

[@ShermThursby]

Stumbled across your channel. Good vid, great distraction for me bc your info and narration are engrossing. 👍

[@amglimpse]

Thanks so much for your support!!

[@Driver-retired]

I was barely into my third year in this business at the time - so! remember the event (worked sitting "side saddle" in those 10's at the time) - our company operated 55+ - . But, to your video most to the post crash details in your brilliantly researched work were for most-intent-and-purposes ignored and forgotten about within the US media...

[@TOPDadAlpha]

Superb documentary. Thank you.

[@TheMotz55]

If you stop at 3:01, you might notice the young woman's eyes searing right into yours. It's unnerving. R.I.P.

[@zclmt03]

Thank you for your work and greetings from Germany

[@kiwikeith7633]

I stayed up that night, listening and hoping glued to my radio. When fuel was gone, so was hope. From the start, I judged Air New Zealand management at fault on account of the navigation programming change not informed to the flight crew. I am with Judge Mahon with his "Orchestrated litany of Lies!" opinion. I recall Rob ( Piggy ) Muldoon, and I approve of the way you have related his manner. I intended going on one of those flight myself. I am sad that this was added to the DC10's misfortunes. I flew in one - such a nice plane. This and so many other incidents were not the fault of the plane, including the Chicago O'hare crash. What one single unsupervised worker can be trusted to change such vital information ? Even though it had that typo, it WORKED for so many flights, so caution was needed even to correct it. And I say, any cockpit / navigation changes MUST be informed to flight crew - but not even a "Post-it" label on the on the control column. A well done video. Thanks

[@shanowilliams9851]

a friend of mines mother was on that flight...was sad for him..when this went down..RIP......sad

[@mouseandryforever6848]

I was 8 yrs old and flying comm air since I was 3 at least twice a year. I'm glad I flew so much in my life. Even tho there were several accidents in the 70's, it was very safe to fly.

[@bennyd345]

Excellent piece. Good job sir. 👏

[@wekapeka3493]

Unfortunately it set a precedent for local and national politicians that they can lie and lie and lie and there will never be any consequences. I remember listening to the news reports at the time recording the increasingly overdue state until it would have been out of fuel.