The Death of Jochi: 1225 or 1227

[@joekhaiphet9253]

Your channel is so underrated!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you!

[@jaycearjun7136]

I know I am kinda off topic but does anyone know a good site to watch new series online?

[@jermainericky7016]

@Jayce Arjun Flixportal

[@jaycearjun7136]

@Jermaine Ricky Thank you, I signed up and it seems like a nice service :D I really appreciate it!!

[@jermainericky7016]

@Jayce Arjun glad I could help =)

[@WWIIKittyhawk]

Honestly bro, your content is superb. You deserve a lot more Subs bro.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you so much!

[@alexandermenschmaschine5361]

I will be breif. This channel is a hidden gem. Extremely happy to find it!

[@syedassadbokhari4824]

Amazing video! Love this channel!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@ElBandito]

Jochi was the most militarily accomplished son of Chingis before his father's death, having campaigned against Siberian and Kyrgyz people, as well as having led one column of the army into Khwarezm. It can be inferred that he had gathered a significant amount of followers due to his prestige and age, probably enough to declare independence if he wished. I wonder how far was he willing to break with Chingis...

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Depending on which author, he went pretty far. Definitely there was some resistance, but we can't say with any certainty what that was. Part of what makes his story so fascinating, is that there was clearly alot of counter stories and dates going around about him after his death!

[@georgelindley6752]

Jochi never seriously considered independence. He was still angry about the humiliation of being passed over the succession but he realized he would be crushed in a civil war. Genghis understood jochi well and that he was not a real threat and that is why he never attempted to assassinate Jochi. Anyway, he would need cooperation with the other mongol factions if we were to press into Europe and he was looking forward to that eventuality.

[@ahamedihamiyun5927]

@@georgelindley6752 how would jochi get crushed in a civil war ? Wasn't he more battle experience than his brothers

[@jihangirastra3851]

@@ahamedihamiyun5927 Not really. After Chinggis Khaan’s death, Tolui was given 100,000 of the 120k Mongol army. There is no way Jochi could resist Tolui’s tumens or Ogedei’s global influence.

[@ahamedihamiyun5927]

@@jihangirastra3851 couldnt he raised an army of his own near that size ?

[@Thecircustapes]

I love how temüjin just claimed jochi as his own son never questioning that he was his whether or not they were biologically related like how my own stepdad treated and raised me since I was a month old.

[@عليياسر-ذ5ب]

He is his son we did according to the Mongol Morkhians 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Thecircustapes]

@@عليياسر-ذ5ب borte was kidnapped and raped by merkits before his birth. With the timing its possible that jochi wasn't actually his. That and written record keeping wasnt a thing in Mongolia until the unification under the great khan. Also don't use emojis when you're trying to debate it makes you look stupid.

[@Z5100-k7t]

He laid with with his wife for a while before she was kidnapped . I’m pretty sure he was quite confident Jochi even if Jochi wasn’t. The only people to isolate the Jochi branch was his second oldest son who was next in line for succession. Ogedia treated Batu Khan with enough acknowledgment to make him be the lead prince with 100K men for the invasion of Europe

[@gasmonkey1000]

God it's reminding me of Rashamon with all these different ways he died. Kindest of the Khagan's kids, and his (alleged) firstborn too, and they can't even say how he died. Ah well, at least he shared that with his father.

[@matthewsmith1779]

Batu was considered for the throne after Guyük died. He was instrumental in getting Mongke to the throne(you of course know that.)

[@Alejandro-te2nt]

I love the Chingiz Khan facepalm illustration that was perfect

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

That was supposed to depict another part of the Kazakh 'Aksak Kulan,' legend, where Chinggis learned of Jochi's death from a musician's beautiful music... but ended up being where it was, without the text.

[@tulgatulgaldo6241]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory i am from Mongolia. I also heard that Golden horde messenger is too afraid to tell Zuqi's death and waiting for the right moment he sung a song. But i dont know what song that was. (my english is too poor. sorry) if u know that song's name. please tell me. TY. Love your channel.

[@ACRealmz]

The way you explain all this is so great! I like it.

[@nanaagyapong674]

such great content

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you! I am very pleased you enjoyed it!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Which do you think the best explanation for Jochi's death? Any other theories you know of?

[@FirstLast_Nba]

Not to sit on the fence! But I think the true story is all of them!! Being the eldest would almost certainly have made him target number one from all his siblings and they would have done everything to poison his father's heart against him, he could have gotten mortally I'll from the hunting injuries and that was his end, who knows but the eldest son of every ruler always has to be extra careful.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@FirstLast_Nba Somewhat on the same note, in 1200 they're medical knowledge was far from our own. Someone could have died of something which, to some eyes, looked natural, while to others, looked like poison. They apply across the board that it was a rather sudden demise. A mysterious end to someone who so much of his life is a mystery to us.

[@georgelindley6752]

Jochi captured a group of wild asses. He approached them from behind and a lame female wild ass delivered the deadly blow. This is the local legend. He was buried where he died and a descendant later built the mausoleum over his grave. Not sure who else it could be. Is there another possible occupant even named? BTW, the Kazakh government issued a commemorative silver coin of Jochi's mauselum. It is reasonably priced.

[@georgelindley6752]

oops mausoleum

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@georgelindley6752 you're quite right to point out no individual is named as alternative to Jochi within the mausoleum. But that is part of the debate: the mausoleum has (as far as I have been able to research) no 13th century markings to designate who was buried there. Local legend is the only identifier. The person found within had injuries matching those of Jochi in the legend, but that aspect of the story are hard to say predate the 20th century excavation of the tomb (so the injury details may have been added on when people heard about the skeleton's injuries). It's one of those cases where it has not been definitively proven either way, even though there is intriguing evidence both ways. The sources of the period not agreeing on how he died (but not mentioning a hunting accident), and that the Mongol in Jochi's time (early 1200s) didn't build tombs or mausoleums argues against it. But that local legend lines up well with what is found inside the tomb is very hard to dismiss. But that the building itself has nothing explicitly linking it to Jochi beyond the legend means it cannot be dismissed as one of his sons, grandsons and so on.

[@yeldos]

greate job!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you!

[@khanimran1238]

Good job sir

[@FirstLast_Nba]

Interesting, I didn't know about any of this and will definitely read up on Batu to see if he was his father's son.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Jochi was said to have had around 40 children (though only about 14 sons names we know) so I don't really have much doubts over his ability to father children!

[@ahamedihamiyun5927]

Batu was the best Genghis khan grandson

[@jabrown]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Where can I find more information on the sons of Jochi? Some genealogy my family has done says we are related to the Khans of the Blue Horde, which I assume means we are descended from Jochi, but I cannot figure out through which son of Jochi we would be descended from him. Wikipedia only mentions Batu, Berke, Shiban, Teval, and Toqa-Temur.

[@kashifkayani6435]

good...make video on death of halugu khan.

[@ACRealmz]

Your channel is so great. I like to do this too sometime. How do you know so much?

[@FF-cg3cf]

What book about the Mongol empire would you recommend for someone that knows little about the subject and would like to discover it?. The length and complexity don't matter

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

If you're interested in the empire as a whole, then Timothy May's "The Mongol Empire," (2018) is a good resource. It covers the rise of the empire, the conquests and the successors Khanates; admimistration and internal function of the empire; as well as a number of useful family trees, lists of rulers and maps. It's a great single resource which also has a lot of the newer historiography, while also being written in an easy to read and not too dense style. A good place to start before going into more complicated, less broad works, of which you'll find many suggestions in May's extensive bibliography

[@FF-cg3cf]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory thanks a lot! And what a book that is more centered on Genghis khan?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@FF-cg3cf the classic biography is still Paul Ratchnevsky's "Genghis Khan: His Life and Legacy," originally published in German but with an excellent English translation, and added notes, by Thomas Haining. It's a little older now, so doesn't have some of the newer research, but is still very much the bar for biographies on the conqueror. For non-scholarly and less well researched (a number of errors!) but very still readable, Frank McLynn and John Man have both written recent popular biographies of Chinggis. Now, I would recommens Ratchnevsky over them, but Ratchnevsky's work may be a bit harder to find now. Further, John Man's travel experiences in Mongolia and China make his biographies particularly enjoyable to read from observations from his own experiences he can add.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@FF-cg3cf there is also Jack Weatherford's very popular "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World," which I wouldn't read or rely on in isolation, but he has his own experiences in Mongolia and a strong appreciation for Mongolian culture. Very good to read if you want to contrast the stereotypical image of the Mongols as mindless conquerors in your head, but has a number of errors in research which make the argument unsound at points. He goes a bit too far the other way trying to improve Chinggis' image.

[@Shirkinbai]

Joshy khan was a loved son of Shyngys khan, when his died on the hunt no one dared say about this Shyngys khan. And they got a Naiman Ketbuka to do it. Ketbuka said this bad news through playing with a dombura sazalem.com/kk/track/kui-aksak-kulan

[@xotl2780]

You are a hero for sharing this.

[@jihangirastra3851]

Yeah Dombra, Morin Khuur(horse fiddle) were the main instruments of the Mongol court. Modern Oirats, Kazakhs play the dombra.

[@goodbarbarians9279]

This channel is worth a billion dollars easy, i hope to meet you one day to write the new stories of the nomadic barbarians who are about to be reborn.

[@baagiibaagii2605]

Apparently, there is manga called "Shut Hell" that is about the Mongols Invasion of Northern China, Tangut.

[@docsaaid2939]

Maybe batu khan and his brothers made this mausoleum for him. Because the golden horde was under jochi khan

[@crowold3025]

With just 4,000 horsemen, the Juchi conquered Central Asia, the Kipichak Plain, and even parts of Eastern Europe. Although he was the strongest general among his brothers, he seems to have been disliked by many of his brothers because of his alleged birth. And he did not respond to Genghis' repeated calls and refused to leave Kipchak. Perhaps, upon returning to his homeland, he would have avoided getting involved in the killing of his brothers and cousins over his father's heir. In addition, he converted his sons to Islam in order to create common values with the conquering peoples he had won over, which greatly angered Genghis Khan. Jochi died at the young age of 40, and was poisoned by his father, Genghis. His son Batu was also slow to return to Mongolia. In the "Golden Ordo" they rested. Genghis mocked and hated Islam, but ironically it was his son Jochi who spread Islam to Central Asia.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Jochi was the eldest son of Chinggis Khan, most well known for his uncertain paternity and strife with his father. In this video, we look at the Death of Jochi, and what our various sources - Juvaini, Rashid al-Din, Juzjani - have to say on the matter of the death of the first son of the Mongol Empire. Patreon: www.patreon.com/jackmeister VIDEOS MENTIONED: The Sons of Chinggis Khan and the Fall of Gurganj: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqHVoIp4aMaqq5o Mongol Conquest of Siberia and First Battle with the Khwarezmians: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3ethaF5eKeWqac Chinggis Khan and Qiu Chuji: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nanKfJWveat0g5I Who were the Cuman-Kipchaks? kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3mzYYSQmZand6M The Kazakh cartoon on Jochi's death: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2jXnoKHrrKcrqs PRIMARY SOURCES: de Rachewiltz, Igor. The Secret History of the Mongols: A Mongolian Epic Chronicle of the Thirteenth Century. Translated by Igor de Rachewiltz. Edited by John C. Street. University of Wisconsin: Madison, 2015. cedar.wwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=cedarbooks the Secret History doesn't actually say anything on Jochi's death, which is unhelpful. ‘Ala-ad-Din ‘Ata-Malik Juvaini, The History of the World-Conqueror. Vol. I. Translated by John Andrew Boyle. Harvard: Harvard University Press, 1958. archive.org/stream/historyoftheworl011691mbp#page/n3/mode/2up See page 140 for Jochi's death Rashid al-Din, The Successors of Genghis Khan. Translated by J.A Boyle. Columbia University Press: New York, 1971. archive.org/details/Boyle1971RashidAlDin/page/n125 See pages 117-119 for Jochi Juzjani. Ṭabaḳāt-i-Nāṣirï: A General History of the Muhammadan Dynasties of Asia. Vol. II. Translated by H.G Raverty. London: Gilbert & Rivington, 1881. archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.211407?ui=embed#page/n5/mode/2up see page 1101 for Jochi

[@SSFFAA-gt9rq]

i read that he married Khan-Sultan (or Sultan Khatun) the captured daughter of Muhammad Khwarazm shah and she's the mother of berke khan ?

[@raphaellechat2339]

Have you read the conn iggulden books, they are awesome

[@ironheart5830]

His life story can make a good historical drama :)

[@kaybevang536]

I’d say Berke Khan and Batu Khan would be potential Candidates as Great Khan Along with Kaidu Khan and rival Kublai

[@goodbarbarians9279]

One day i wish to put you on my council.

[@superfly19751]

Everything about the Mongol Royals back in the days is a mystery.

[@MichailHordens]

The genuine appearance and essence of Chingiz Khan and some important and unknown facts from the real History of Tatars and many Turkic peoples and Russians: Perhaps you know, that an outstanding historian-scientist Dr. Iskhakov wrote: ‘the true history of the Tatars, of the people in every respect historical, is not written yet’. And this is absolutely true. But first of all it must be said, that in official history there are many falsifications and slanders about the ‘Tatars - wild nomads’ etc., which were written by pro-Chinese, Persian, also both Russian tsars Romanovs and Bolshevik ideologists. However primarily we should know the truth about the meaning of the names ‘Mongol’ and ‘Tatar’ (‘Tartar’) in the medieval Eurasia: According to many medieval sources, the name ‘Mongol’ until the 17th-18th centuries meant belonging to a political community, and was not the ethnic name. While ‘‘the name ‘Tatar’ was ‘the name of the own ethnos (nation) of Chingiz Khan'. Also ‘…Chingiz Khan and his own people did not speak the language, which we now call the ‘Mongolian’…’’ - so wrote an academician-orientalist V.P.Vasiliev (19th century), who spoke Chinese, Manchu and Khalkha-Mongolian languages and translated little-known ancient eastern sources. But these works of Vasiliev have been hidden from us. The conclusions of Vasiliev about Tatars History are confirmed also by other many little known data. So in fact Chingiz Khan had belonged to the medieval Tatars and was the outstanding and progressive leader of the Turkic peoples. About the real faith of Chingiz Khan and his own people: for example, the Turkish traveler and historian Chelebi (17th century) wrote the following from the words of Tatar alims (scientists): ‘It is proved that Chingiz Khan was a Muslim, and the Tatars professed Islam already during the life of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)’. Also, as Tatar alims told Chelebi, Chingiz Khan had been buried in the Volga region, not far from the city of Astrakhan. Moreover, there is a lot of data about this, hidden from the general public. It is worth saying that according to many little-known data, the ancient and medieval Tatars were a very developed people both in spiritual and material aspects. It was the medieval Tatars who created the first Constitution of Eurasia, which was called in Tatar ‘Great Yasu’ (‘Yasu’ in Tatar means 'Scripture'). But with time many of their descendants became spiritually disabled and forgot invaluable doctrine and covenants of the creators of Great Yasu... So that the Tatars of Chingiz Khan - medieval Tatars - were one of the Turkic nations, whose descendants now live in many of the fraternal Turkic peoples of Eurasia - among Tatars, Kazakhs, Bashkirs, Uighurs, and many others nations. And few people know that the ethnos of medieval Tatars, which stopped the expansion of the Persians and the Chinese to the West of the World in Medieval centuries, is still alive. Despite to the politicians of the tsars Romanovs tsars and Bolsheviks dictators, which had divided and scattered this ethnos to different nations... About everything above mentioned and a lot of the true history of Tatars and other fraternal Turkic peoples, that was hidden from us, had been written, detailed and proved, in the book ‘Forgotten Heritage of Tatars’ - it is one of books by an independent historian Gali Yeniky, translated in Engilsh. His books present a new, or rather, ‘well-forgotten old’ view on the real history of Tatars and many other Turkic peoples. There are a lot of previously little-known historical facts, as well as 16 maps and illustrations in this book. This e-book (in English language) you can easily find in the Internet here: www.kobo.com/ebook/forgotten-heritage-of-tatars-1 or here: payhip.com/b/Xujb On the cover of this book you can see the true appearance of Chingiz Khan. It is his lifetime portrait. In the ancient Tatar historical source ‘About the clan of Chingiz Khan’ its author gave the words of the mother of Chingiz Khan: ‘My son Chingiz looks like this: he has a golden bushy beard, he wears a white fur coat and rides on a white horse’. As we can see, the portrait of an unknown medieval artist in many ways corresponds to the words of the mother of the Hero, which have come down to us in this ancient Tatar epic. Therefore, this portrait, which corresponds to the information of the Tatar source and to data from other sources, we believe, the most reliably transmits the appearance of Chingiz Khan...’. And here's another interesting thing: We can't keep silent that some 'very important' official historians try to retell the content (or rather, the concept) of the works of the independent historian Gali Yenikey (Yenikeev). But they conceal where the information was by them taken from. However it turned out they were unsuccessful and confused - this official historians, apparently, do not dare to show the real history of Tatars, being afraid of their ‘scientific chiefs’. But not only this - see the portrait of Chingiz Khan - see on the 7th minute of the video of the Institute of history of the Academy of Sciences of Tatarstan (Russia): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYjUc2pnnNhomMU - also this portrait is shown there both before and after. This portrait is reconstruction, which made by Yenikeev on the basis of a lifetime portrait of Chingiz Khan and of information from the medieval Tatar Dastan (epic) 'About the Origin of Chingiz Khan', as well as from other historical sources. This portrait was used by authors of the video without Yenikeev's permission and without telling where the portrait came from. This portrait is published on the cover of G. R. Yenikeev's book ‘Forgotten heritage of Tatars’: see: payhip.com/b/Xujb For the first time this portrait was published on the cover of the third book by G. R. Yenikeiev ‘In the footsteps of the black legend’ (published in 2009), see its electronic version: payhip.com/b/DNdC This ‘creativity’ of the official historians is called among the decent people as plagiarism - that is, as theft.

[@johnvonshepard9373]

6:13 posion?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I read over this whole video so many times, but somehow one or two typos always slip through.

[@papazataklaattiranimam]

Merkit Warrior

[@bogdanoff148]

do a video on the great stand on the ugra river

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Definitely in future there will be one. With Kings and Generals we are doing a video on Kulikovo and Temur's invasion of the Golden Horde, and there will be a very brief mention of Ugra River there. But that is already a very long video, so I don't expect there will time to go into it very much there.

[@hamzaalmdghri8741]

The Borjigins are the descendants of the Mongol leaders Khmaq, and the other tribes are Mongolian, but not from the Borjigins, such as the Merkit, the Raw Tatar, the Keret and the Oriyat

[@عليياسر-ذ5ب]

Genghis Khan's Brothers : Where are we, my brother?

[@anar24]

Here I thought Logan roy had some succession issues

[@Fkindo-europeanarechaotic]

He was actually are merkit

[@XortiXz]

Great video! In Conn Iggulden's book Bones of the hills, SPOILER ALERT if you want to read the book obviously. Subutai cuts Jochi's throat on order by Chingis because Jochi denies Chingis call to arms and instead wants to settle down on his own lands. So that is all fiction then?

[@drsantoshsinghrathore9308]

I read in a book that Chingiz's brother killed Juchi by his order. Sabutai was on a mission to Kiev during this period.

[@XortiXz]

@@drsantoshsinghrathore9308I see, thanks.

[@shanyewest958]

@@XortiXz It made sense for subudai to do it as he trained jochi

[@XortiXz]

@@shanyewest958 Yes I agree.

[@TheAfghan72]

And Juzjani was Afghan

[@andrefelix4949]

please non english speakers need subtitles :~

[@TheAfghan72]

Jochi was a bastard

[@Nomadicenjoyer31]

Jochi was Merkit Turkish

[@Orgil.]

Merkit is mongolian tribe

[@Orgil.]

and he is Temujin's son

[@Willxdiana]

@@Orgil. merit were turkic. jack already said it

[@Orgil.]

@@Willxdiana no he didnt i read Secret history of the Mongols at age of 7 Merkits are Mongolian tribe

[@Willxdiana]

@@Orgil. mongol tribes did they exist. one of the comments say that he mention they were turkic