The Life of Jochi Khan: First son of Genghis Khan

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

The follow up video with extra details will go up sometime in the next few days Bibliography for this one: docs.google.com/document/d/1mwowGfGIzoA0mTmZUu7CMDzSvKaFmTL9uqTmw_ShR2c/edit?usp=sharing

[@TOKMAKCI_BASPAPAZ]

The favor bestowed on Jochi demonstrates that Chinggis considered him his eldest, even though Jochi was most likely not Chinggis's son by blood. Jochi was probably Börte's son by a Merkit chieftain, but Chinggis raised Jochi as his own. The official historiography of the Mongol Empire-revised after 1251 under the aegis of the descendants of Tolui, who competed with the Jochids for power-portrays Jochi as a bastard.

[@fanyechao2761]

genetic test shows Jochi is Chinggis's

[@watchman835]

@@fanyechao2761really? Source? That is so cool!

[@Jaydub07]

@@fanyechao2761 yeah I was about to say and they never claimed he was a bastard it was because his name that historian took it that way his mother literally let him know your wife was pregnant before her kidnapping and this is what she has claim it is your choice to believe her or not Genghis khan choose to believe her but the name for the child Jochi Meant Visitor or some would take it as guest or unwanted guest but obviously this isn’t true genghis loved and cared for Jochi and he made it known not just to his other kids but also everyone around him he is his son rumors and slanders about him don’t matter

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

False! Genghis was no simp marrying a woman who already had a kid? No way!!

[@BenjaminD-d4k]

dna indicated he was genghis khan's after all...

[@Howyoullappear-eb8vo]

babe drop everything, jackmeister is in town!

[@El-Silver]

glad to see you are back

[@samweirich5973]

Welcome back, brother. Now that CoolHistoryBros doesn't post anymore, your channel along with TheShogunate are my 2 favorite channels for East Asian history/culture. Your channel focuses on the Mongols and Turkic tribes while TheShogunate focuses on Japan. LOVE this type of content.

[@CraigCraigbottom]

Rewatched it and loved it even more the second time... i noticed how you made jochi and his brothers older over the video! Love the details as usual

[@henkstersmacro-world]

You’re back!!!👍👍👍

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I drop in from time to time when I can

[@Couponuser16]

Great to see one of your videos come around. Keep up the great work, hope all is well. Side note, your illustrations have also gotten truly impressive. Very befitting for the quality of the content

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you very much for the kind words! I appreciate it!

[@Couponuser16]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Wanna see something neat? Search 48.761731678374474 N, 109.0089226445348 E into Google Maps and zoom in with satellite views enabled. Do you recognize that tamga?

[@ClassicPengins]

Just finished watching it... absolutely loved it. Your best work yet!

[@AncientKnowledge98]

I really wanted to thank you for your videos, i recently got obsessed with the Mongols, and other like history. I have learned alot! Cheers 👍

[@ElBandito]

Been waiting for a video like this. Great job, mate!

[@brianhildreth9099]

Here as a continuing education of the Khans after Fall Of Civilizations newest video. Great stuff. Thank you.

[@HistoryDocumentary-f9u]

Campaigns in Siberia and the Steppes (09:38 - 13:12): Jochi quelled revolts in Siberia, subdued the Kirghiz, and pursued remnants of the Merkit, solidifying Mongol control in these regions. His leadership in these harsh terrains earned him praise from Genghis Khan.

[@tyrson4331]

Awesome video. Always impressed by your research. Can’t wait for the next

[@ClassicPengins]

Awesome! Excited to watch this!

[@thamsanqabuthelezi8460]

Wow, a mongol history channel. Impressive, sir. I was obsessed with the mongols years ago. Jist subscribed... Great delivery

[@CraigCraigbottom]

He's the best there is

[@AltaicGigachad]

Jochi is very underrated his lineage ruled for several centuries

[@OgedeiKhan-mi5sv]

May Tengri bless you!

[@DestinationTravel]

Greetings from the Chagatai Khanate. I love your channel very much. Because of you I look for anything from when the Chagatai Khanate ruled. All I can find is tamga on mosques and an ancient Mongol cemetary. I look forward to your next video.

[@arda213]

Amazing video kudos.

[@muhammaddyab2384]

The khan's favourite KZbinr came back

[@nenenindonu]

The line of Jochi established what was arguably the most successful of the Mongol Empires 4 successor Khanates that being said it was also the only one to fully lose it's Mongol ethnic identity.

[@tobiasit2190]

that would be the ilkhanate

[@ernyserok8278]

​@@tobiasit2190untrue there were mongolic speakers as late 1500s, or 1900s

[@Jaydub07]

Idk about that maybe they mix with other races but the mongols we’re known to stay to their roots and tradition

[@veila0924]

@@tobiasit2190 The Ilkhanate continued to have Mongols even after its disintegration, with the Chobanids and even some Jalayirids.

[@cjthebeesknees]

History shows over n over, that a realm divided between sons, or successors, no matter the reason, ends in civil war, envious eyes, and strife. The placating of ambitious men never works. The four khanates themselves are packed full of interesting tales and conquests n defeats but shame the whole Mongol empire was not unified under one banner and Khan.

[@DeRegelaar]

Fantastic video.

[@boldz2234]

Thanks a lot. Do you have any plan to visit Mongolia?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

One day! Time and money need to line up for that though

[@issaissa4974]

Hey Jack, thanks for the effort. Can we get a video on the Nerge. Its importance on steepe culture, how it trained the nomads for war, types of animals hunted, best locations to hunt, etc

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

that would be a very good idea to do, actually. I'll add it on my list!

[@jacksonterrance8833]

Jochi was actually his son many believed after seeing the similiarities between batu and Chingiz. Batu, Chagatai, and Hulegu were all twice as wide and a head taller than the mongols around them.

[@florianganswachtel8841]

Do you intend to do some research on the Dzungars as well?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I would very much like to one day. I don't know as much about them as I should, and I get a lot of requests about them so it would be very useful for me to do something about them (more likely an overview/introduction rather than real deep dive, since I don't know the sources for that period as I do for the 13th century).

[@arielhachinto3064]

When comparing this video with your earlier videos such as the Mongol Invasion of the Khwarizem Empire, there's a serious jump in quality in both artstyle and presentation of information. It's impressive. Somewhat similar to the "Jochi is less massacre-happy" belief, the idea that the Mongols "If you surrender, we will spare your lives" ultimatum isn't an ironclad rule given how the surrendered citizens are used as arrowfodder to minimize Mongol casualties during sieges. Possibly used to further reduce dissent given how the conquered population is always much larger than the occuping forces. I'd like to ask some questions if you can: 1. In the Chinese TV series Genghis Khan 2003, they portray the Mongols using gunpowder weapons such as handgrenades and cannons alongside traditional siege weapons to wreck the Khawarizem cities. How accurate is that? 2. In video games such as the Koei's Genghis Khan series, there's a 5th Khanate alongside the other 4 successors called the Ogudei Khanate, ruled by Kaidu (portrayed as a powerful ruler evaluated higher than Kublai) and opposes the Yuan and is friendly to the Chagatai and Kipchak Khanates and is essentially portrayed as a the only "pure" Mongolian faction when compared to the others (The Yuan rule Chinese cities except Karakorum, Chagatai and Il-Khanate rule Islamic cities while the Kipchak rule Eastern European cities). Although history only shows the 4 successor khanates, can the Ogudei house at the time can be considered an unofficial "khanate" given their power and influence they have that continually threatens the Yuan?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you! Yes, I am always happy to see that the progress is visible. But more so the research is much better in general; I have access to, and knowledge of, much more sources than I ever had before. That's progress! Regarding your questions, I will give separate comments on that below

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

1) Regarding gunpowder weapons: I wrote a summary of the evidence on that matter for Kings and Generals here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYHXkolvnZaBl6csi=80lm5kaKl_IEltM3 But specifically regarding the Khwarezmian campaigns: this is actually something hard to study, because these gunpowder weaponry was new that writers didn't have words to describe what they are (the trend is always to use existing terminology to refer to them, making it hard to know the weapon being describe is a regular catapult or different technology.) In general though, we have evidence for the use of cannons or handgrenades in the 1219-1222 fighting in Khwarezm. One argument that has been made, is that the earliest (hand) cannons are developed by the Tangut in their fighting against the Mongols. But for the Khwarezmian campaign, we actually do have evidence for some gunpowder weaponry being used there. The Yuan Shi biography of Guo Baoyu 郭寶玉 (YS 149.3521) describes him using "fire-arrows" (huojian 火箭) in 1220 against Khwarezmian ships and forts blocking the Mongol crossing over the Amu Darya River after the fall of Samarkand. Huojian can refer to rockets (launched from something looking like the famous Korean hwacha) or normal arrows with incendiary charges strapped to them (filled with gunpowder). That is, to my knowledge, the only direct attestation to this type of weaponry being used in the Khwarezm campaign.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

2) Regarding the Ogedeyid Khanate; I am not familiar with this game, but I am actually impressed they included this! That's very good and fully accurate. The famous Four Khanates (Yuan/Chagatai/Ilkhanate/Golden Horde) is basically the system that develops around 1310-20 (and some 14th century Mamluk writers then decide it was a system Chinggis Khan himself implemented). For 1260s-1300s, though, there's more like 6 khanates: Yuan, Chagatai, Ogedeyid (under Qaidu), Ilkhanate, Golden Horde (ruled by Batu's descendants) and Ulus of Orda (the left wing of Golden Horde, which appears fully independent in this period). Some people argue for more, depending on who you want to include some of the smaller rebels or the Neguderis/Qara'unas in Afghanistan. I (and most historians I have seen) would fully argue for the Ogedeyid Khanate under Qaidu to be an official khanate: the other khans treat it as such, and Qaidu was enthroned as Khan of this ulus in 1270 or so, and in the peace between all the khanates in 1304 were they recognise the overlordship of the Great Khan, the Ogedeyids are one of the "signatories" to this, but ultimately become a victim as the Chagatayids and Yuan divide the khanate between them after Qaidu's death. This is something that I touch on here in my video on Qaidu's daughter Qutulun: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXW9ZJ6ahLRnn7csi=pvWDP-vUHoYhTYHP

[@arielhachinto3064]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Thank you for answering my questions good sir. 1. There are many aspects of the Mongol's history that is to be admired but their adaptability and acceptance of foreign culture and technology is severely underrated. 2. The Genghis Khan series is an old strategy game from the 90s and it's last game is Japan-only but it's level of historical research was ridiculous given how the internet and historical sources are limited. That and it's the only video game set in Medieval Mongol Era (Starting from the Unification of Mongolia to the fall of the successor Khanates and the rise of Timur) but you choose either a famous nation like Mongolia, England and the Ayuubids or obscure nations like the Xi Xia, Qara Khitai and Tibet and conquer the whole of Eurasia has it's appeals. Regarding Kaidu, he is quite underrated given the trouble he gave to Kublai and the Yuan while ruling the relatively weak Central Asian lands. Hope you'll cover him and the Ogudei Khanate in the future.

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

​@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory There is also the Shiban Ulus, which acts as a buffer zone between the Ulus of Orda and Batu.

[@acne-xg3qu]

do you know about the history of the mongols before the mongol empire? like xianbei? shiwei? there are minimal sources in english

[@SantiSomchay]

Jochi was Genghis Kahns son and Genghis Khan was Jochis father and thats all that matter for both of them.I remember Jochi especially from Koei's Ghenghis Kahn Clan of the Grey wolf on Snes it was my first historical simulation that I played over and over.

[@AmachiEligwe]

A bit off but do you think Jochi's son Batu could have become great Khan?. It seemed that he wasn't even considered even tho he was the eldest prince and ally of the Toluids but instead the Toluids selected from their own grandsons after they both joined to expel the Ogedeieds. Was this because of the controversial heritage of the father or simply just Batu wanting to focus more on his side of thing?.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

This is a very relevant question actually, and something people have been arguing about. It seems the general idea is that, when Jochi and Chagatai were removed from the succession (which in this video I date to 1223) this also removed their descendants from ever running in it; Jochi's uncertain heritage probably factored into it as well. It seems to have been the case, that the initial understanding (at least by the house of Ogedei) was that the succession was meant to stay within the line of Ogedei forever. However, the loophole was that Tolui himself was not formally removed the succession in the same way Jochi and Chagatai had been (though Tolui doesn't appear to have really been considered in the first place...) Batu also seems to have been placated by the granting of a considerable degree of autonomy over his massive territory, and the sources sometimes present an almost dyarchy-type situation between Batu and Mongke (at least until Batu's death around 1255). Batu seems to have been in ill-health in his last years though (suffering from very severe gout) so it may too that, by 1250 he himself even realised he was no longer physically in shape to handle the position of Great Khan (if he had even wanted it in the first place).

[@AmachiEligwe]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Thanks. If Batu pushed his elder position to argue he should be Khan before the Toluids settled completely on Monke in exchange for giving the Toluids full autonomy over China and Mongolia(basically the reverse of the OTL agreement) do you think this would have been resisted more by the other families than Monke becoming Khan?. Like maybe the Chagataids taking special offense and more emboldened against the against the Jochid-Toluid alliance? Do the Toluids/Monke look like they could be satisfied with such an agreement?.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@AmachiEligwe I think it would have been resisted even more (Möngke coming to the throne was already resisted by the Chagatayids and Ögedeyids, and for that Möngke had a lot of them killed). The reasons for Jochi's ultimate exclusion, would not have disappeared and the fact Jochi's potential illegitimacy would have certainly been brought up (at it stands, the uncertainty around his heritage does not really circulate in other sources, almost certainly due to some effort to protect the honour of Chinggis and Börte more than anything else). I also suspect Möngke wouldn't have been very accommodating to it, even if they were given greater autonomy in China.

[@artsempai]

According to the Mongolian traditions Jochi couldn’t inherit Chinggis as he was the firstborn. Usually the youngest son, the otchigin, would inherit his father.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Otchigin status more usually mention inheritor of possessions, herds and properties, rather than dynastic succession (though the children of Tolui tried to make it apply in that case as well). In the 13th-14th centuries, we don't see otchigin succeeding to the thrones any more often than their other siblings; usually military status (veteran commanders with armies backing them!), resources, charisma and backing from other powerful figures, more consistently brought someone on to the throne

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

10:28 So what happened to Urus İnal and Öre Beg-Tegin after this? Did they remain as rulers of the Kırghız and did the Kırghız lordship continued over these peoples(Ursut, Qabqanas, Qangqas and Tuvans)?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Unfortunately there is very little data on events among the Kirghiz after Jochi's campaign. Urus Inal and Öre Beg-Tegin were not the primary Kirghiz lords, but rather representatives of the two main groups of lords mentioned: one group called the Yedi-Orun (each ruled by an Inal) and the Altı-Er (each one ruled by a Beg-Tegin). So thirteen lords in total, with Urus and Öre were just the representatives of each group. It's possible that the reason the Mongol imperial sources recall their names, is because they were even among the hostages that Jochi took with him to then attack the Merkit. Other than that I do not know if there is any information as to what happens to them: I could not find any in my search. In general, from what I can tell, we have very little information on what happens to the Kirghiz after this and there are very few Yuan references to any of those people on the Yenisei. We see, especially later in the thirteenth century, that the Yenisei area that they lived in becomes fought over by Mongol faction: Ariq Böke flees there during his war against Khubilai and uses it as a base; various rebellious Chinggisids like Shiregi and Tuq-Temür flee there for a time and raid Mongolia from there; and Qaidu and the Yuan fight over it. Throughout that period, there does not seem to references to interaction by the Kirghiz. Either Jochi's attack in 1216/1217 was actually a lot more destructive and basically annihilates the Kirghiz political power, or during these Mongol civil wars the Kirghiz political union gets destroyed.

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory That ''İnal'' lords could be subordinate of ''Beg Tekin'' ones ? İnal is the name given to people whose mother is a Khatun(princess) and whose father is from the common people, at least according to Mahmud of Kashgar. Could this indicate the existence of an administrative mechanism among Kırghız similar to Niruun Mongols being considered superior to Dürlükins in Khamag Mongols ?​

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

​@@Spartan_Disiplin I think that's very likely; there must be some sort of organisation to it so I think that's a very plausible suggestion. I wish we had more sources to compare on the matter though, I would love to learn more about them.

[@turmunkhganbaatar2515]

Could I ask how were the craftsman seperated from someone lying. Would they have asked locals to name them or would they promise rewards or punishments unless volunteers came forward. It seems to me worst case scenario it's painful death now vs later

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

This is a very good question; but unfortunately we do not get exact explanations on how this worked in practice. We see it happening repeatedly around the world (China, Central Asia, Middle East, Europe) but not really explained how they identify people. Presumably a lot of this is relying on local collaborators who can translate and interrogate them, or know how to identify craftspeople based on their tools and way they dress. Part of the process that we see is that the people are driven in front of the city and separated into groups; women, children, young men etc. So it's presumably at this point some sort of short interrogation is happening.

[@antokarman2064]

I read it as jokie chan at first, smh...

[@davea6314]

If Genghis Kahn had permanently conquered the entire world then I might be teaching Mongolian poetry, a job which would have its PROSE and KHANS. 😜

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

ooooh very good, took me a moment there

[@davea6314]

@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Thanks. I have to post my comment earlier to get more likes and noticed by the others. I will repost my comment for another video involving Genghis Khan. It seems that the quicker I see a video and post a comment the better the response.

[@vanveakrin276]

Jochi descendants in the Golden Horde named Totchtemech

[@ironmiketyson220]

Jackmiester, do you think the history of the mongol empire would have been different had chagatai died and jochi had become great khan?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Very! In so many ways that it's hard to really describe. Basically that might be a massive transformation.

[@christophernakhoul3998]

This may be a strange question but did the Mongol conquests in any way improve the quality of life in Mongolia itself, either directly or indirectly?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Very valid question but one that is hard to give a precise answer to. As usual for medieval sources, our written accounts about life in Mongolia in this period are mostly interested only in the lives of the lite (i.e, on the court of the Khan in Qaraqorum). So we don't exactly have detailed surveys to compare regarding living conditions; we see some things like that there was a greater access to slaves and presumably, goods from around the world (but again, the question remains unclear whether your average Mongol family had access to these things or just the military elite?). Presumably some amount of wealth is brought back into Mongolia from the allotment soldier's receive. There is a greater network of urban centres built in the Mongolian plateau itself, meaning there was a certain degree of greater access to markets and finished goods for your average nomad to potentially purchase. We can see archaeologically (but not directly attested in any written account that I am aware of) that the Mongol imperial government in Qaraqorum is distributing regularly-produced, small iron bars around the Mongolian plateau. Exactly why and for whom is not known, but likely this was also some sort of relief or allowance, which could then be worked into tools and arrowheads using small forges.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

There was probably a lot of disruption to families though, due to men being sent abroad for military service and never returning (either killed or becoming part of a garrison tamma force somewhere). Sometimes they were sent with families too, so socially that could be very hard.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Something that we can tell from paleo-climatic data, and to some extent from textual accounts, is changing climatic conditions in the Mongolia plateau over the period. So late twelfth century is a very hot and dry period in Mongolia. This would have put a lot of pressures and herds and people due to desiccation of grassland and probably made some of the violence in the period as people steal more animals from their neighbours. Meanwhile, first 30 years of the thirteenth century, is a consistently warm and wet period in Mongolia; this would have been very beneficial (Increased grass production --> increased herds --> support larger population --> larger army by 1230s/40s) while also serving to demonstrate Tengri's approval of Chinggis Khan. By later thirteenth century/early fourteenth century with the end of Medieval Climate Anomaly and the onset of the Little Ice Age, we see a return of generally drier conditions in Mongolia but also much more severe winters; and Yuan Dynasty sources describe consistent mega-snowstorms and awful conditions that wiped out entire herds and caused many Mongols to flee south and ask for help from the Khan. The Yuan spent a huge amount on disaster relief (sending money, grains, animals, tools) to try and help these populations and continued to try and set up self-sustaining agricultural communities/garrisons in Mongolia, and eventually forbid these migrations of refugees from the steppe to China.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Furthermore, there's also a lot of warfare in Mongolia itself in the late thirteenth century; civil wars, raids by Chagatai Khanate/Qaidu, and rebellions that had to be put down. The Yuan are stationing large forces across the region to combat these, and it's not often that the quartering of a large army by civilian populations has pleasant results for the civilians. So while I can't say definitively that life in Mongolia was better or worse in 1150, 1250 or 1350, we do get an idea of greater stability politically and even better environmental conditions in the early thirteenth century (especially from 1210-1250 or so) compared to the preceding or succeeding centuries. There is a general argument in the scholarship of Mongolia becoming a "backwater" after the capital is moved to Dadu by Khubilai. I don't entirely agree on that, but that's also more of a focus on its political status rather than actual life in Mongolia, which is harder to describe precisely beyond the inferences we can make from the data I shared here.

[@christophernakhoul3998]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Thank you for taking the time and replying with such a detailed answer.

[@aarondemiri486]

Peak Mongol history content

[@ironmiketyson220]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Sultan Khatun, the supposed mother of Berke khan

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I talk more about her in the followup video that will go up soon. This video was already long enough that I didn't want to add more to it, and it's hard to explain my opinions on Berke's mother's identity without discussing a lot of sources and historiography that would slow down this video. I like the historiography aspect a lot, but I understand it can be a bit much for people who aren't used to that sort of thing.

[@ironmiketyson220]

@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory will there be a video on the keshig in the near future.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@ironmiketyson220 That would be a good one to do and I've collected a lot of material on that. it would be very good to share!

[@muwatallis]

Finally.

[@Entroxity]

Great video. I'd like to see one on the life of tolui now 😂

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

So fun fact: my initial plan was to do one single 15-20 minute long video doing an overview of all Jochi, Chagatai, Ogedei and Tolui, but I didn't like how much material I was leaving out so then thought I would do 10 minute videos on all four; now it turned into one 30 minute video just on Jochi, which was a lot of work. I'd still like to do similar projects on the other sons, but I think I'd like to do some smaller projects before that, or atleast make those videos a little shorter.

[@jacksonterrance8833]

i thought jochi died 2-6 months before chingis.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

That is common to say in a lot of literature, but I was unable to find any evidence to support the early 1227 date for his death in any primary sources. I suspect it is one of those things that someone suggested in the 1800s or early 1900s, which people simply accepted and didn't investigate further (which happens quite a bit).

[@turmunkhganbaatar2515]

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[@vanveakrin276]

Batu was sent furthest away to Ukraine.. descendants of Jochi.. farthest away

[@Chonobataar]

My own Ovuu used to tell stories about Jochi Haan, how he was the most just and wisest among the sons of Chinghis Haan Temujin. It was the Chonos tribe (that now inhabit Buryatia mostly) that first declared their allegiance to Chinghis Haan and many of our ancestral fathers joined Jochi's army and his campaigns in the West (Tartaria, Russia, etc). Though that is heresay, I wonder if there is any historical record of such things. Regardless, most of the Southern Mongols regarded the Mongols of Buryatia as "sacred" because our people maintained the purest form of Tenggerism (the worship of Mongh Tengger, the One God, the Eternal Sky) and were mostly spiritual, rather than constantly fighting each other for loot and women.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

It's very possible! Part of what is today southwestern Buryatia was ruled by the Kirghiz confederation that Jochi subdues, and in the Secret History of the Mongols there is a mention of him taking the submission of the Buryats. So it is very possible your ancestors (assuming they were still in that area) were therefore part of Jochi's army from that point and joined him in his western campaigns.

[@Chonobataar]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory It is always interesting to see how stories are passed on orrally, but remain somewhat real. It's only when people embellish it too much, that history just becomes mythical nonsense. He used to tell stories about werewolves, bears, snow leopards and deer coming to fight for the Mongol Empire too (to us children anyway) and each had various names, that he'd probably make up. I'm guessing these were not actually animals, but were different tribes or peoples that submitted. Or it could all just be fantasy for the purposes of storytelling. Those were great times.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@Chonobataar we see this even in the 1200s too; we have in a lot of sources from the period a belief that Chinggis Khan was a blacksmith before he became Khan, a story which circulated very widely even in Mongol circles to some extent. It seems, probably due to events like Jochi's uncertain heritage, that it was not until rather late in the thirteenth century that the dynasty was comfortable will public retellings of Chinggis' actual youth. In the vacuum created by not sharing that, he get a somewhat more mythical one which has Chinggis Khan being a blacksmith who receives visions from Heaven; hence, we have sources saying things like "i tried asking about the origins of Chinggis Khan but received no information except that he was some sort of magical blacksmith." People like to tell stories, I guess, especially if they don't have access to any alternative sources

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

​@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory In the secret history, the Mongols who lived in the forest were called as "blessed forest people"

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

​@@Spartan_DisiplinIf I remember right, Atwood suggested in his recent translation of the SHM that by submitting without much destruction, that is what made the Oi-yin Irgen "become blessed."

[@turmunkhganbaatar2515]

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[@turmunkhganbaatar2515]

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