The Death of Long Wave radio in the UK & Ireland | RTE & BBC Radio 4 LW fall silent forever..

RTE Radio 1 will cease to transmit on Long Wave by April 14 2023, with its Clarkstown transmitter shutting down for good. Radio Oddities takes a look at the last remaining Long Wave service available to listeners... UPDATE The BBC have announced that the Radio 4 LW service will stop transmitting in March 2024. Long Wave radio on the British Isle has disappeared for good!

[@dennisthemenace57]

What? No one can build these valves if sufficiently encouraged? Tosh. They just want it gone

[@jayrogers8255]

They could also buy a solid state transmitter (Nautel makes single units up to 400kW) & keep the tube rig as a stand-by.

[@maryrafuse3851]

The abandonment of AM Radio is ill advised. Antiquated Technology, my eye! AM Radio is a tough/strong way to transmit a signal. Simple towers with no junk attached to them. Dependency on the internet for radio was proven foolish in Sept 2022 with a hurricane that rendered cell towers useless in Nova Scotia, Canada. Now we are getting ready for another September Hurricane and preparing to expect CBC 1140 AM as our only media during the storm and after. My experience is that Cell Systems are the first thing to go down in a storm. Maybe Europe has been blessed by calm weather? This will end at some point. Smarten up everyone!

[@RadioOddities]

Thanks for sharing that and yes totally agree. Let’s not give up on AM!

[@TorutheRedFox]

in Ireland the weather isn't calm from my experience we're right on the edge of the Atlantic and we tend to get hurricanes and general strong winds here which, while usually not anything you could even remotely call 'severe', are enough to bring infrastructure down a lot of the time, with the first to go being electricity, and consequently, most cell towers

[@TheTemporalAnomaly]

Utter rubbish the BBC saying that the valves could no longer be manufactured! There are other reasons why the station will cease transmitting, most likely financial. (BBC rad 4 198khz) There are plenty of manufacturers around the world who would be more than willing to re-manufacture the used tubes the BBC has removed from service, albeit for a cost.

[@M7XCB]

That's BBC all ways Lies. Plenty valves about still.

[@jayrogers8255]

Or they can spring for a solid state transmitter!

[@TheTemporalAnomaly]

@@jayrogers8255 Solid state is not really feasible for the kind of power levels involved for that station. Tubes did have their uses right up to present day in some applications.

[@jayrogers8255]

@@TheTemporalAnomaly talking about pure power alone, Gates makes a 2MW AM transmitter that is solid state. 500kW is doable. Nautel makes a 400kW transmitter (the NX400) that will do longwave.

[@M500VYN]

Send the BBC their details

[@REKlaus]

I grew up listening to DX stations at night. Some shortwave, some MW and also broadcast band (U.S.). It was fun to see just who and how far you could hear and the different programing was educational. I do miss being able to tune around and hear all the great radio that used to exist but is now gone.

[@RadioOddities]

Often on a night I can still hear very distant stations in Europe when I switch on my SW/MW/LW Transceiver

[@EasyJetOfficial]

transceiver 💀

[@lacase111]

I grew up listening to BBC Radio 2 on Long Wave. I continued to listen to BBC Radio 4 until they reduced the power of the transmitter and reception got really bad in the West of Ireland. Today Radio 4 LW sounds like it being broadcast through a washing machine. Despite this I am sorry to see the lose of Long Wave as it gave so much pleasure to so many people for so many years.

[@christopherhulse8385]

Radio 4 LW power is still 500kw as always, there is more man made interference nowadays affecting reception.

[@dvidclapperton]

It's on FM whatever's on LW with a far better reception, or at least it will be very soon until the Droitwich LW transmitter closes down. You haven't lost access to the Test Match if you are desperate to hear it. It's on Radio 5 Live Sports Extra on DAB (or perhaps on DAB+ instead of standard DAB now, so you don't need to be connected to the internet to hear it. There is no real purpoee of listening to Radio 4 on LW in the UK now with FM sounding crystal clear wherever you are. And the shipping forecast will still be on Radio 4, on both LW and FM now.

[@scottpeacock5492]

The BBC has already announce a campaign to switch the remaining long wave BBC Radio 4 listeners to other platforms as of May 2023, It worth noting that the BBC is planning to close the BBC Radio 4 long wave service in March 2024.

[@richiehoyt8487]

In fact RTE pulled the plug on DAB radio a year or two ago. Of course, appliance stores continue to sell the radios without any form of disclaimer or warning... OK, most of them will have 'regular' FM, or such gew~gaws as MP3 or Bluetooth functionality, but a blatant rip~off nonetheless. Changing the subject slightly, don'tcha just love the image of the skipper of some trawler battling through the mountainous waves of the North Atlantic, up there in 'Forties' or 'S.E. Iceland' trying to pick up the Shipping Forecast on _FM/DAB?!_ Or desperately endeavering to conjure up a WiFi signal so they can download the 'BBC Sounds' app? Hardly bears thinking about!

[@davidholman2536]

I enjoy listening to Radio 4 LW on my amateur radio HF transceivers when I'm constructing electronic projects. It's a lovely companion to a couple hours of soldering parts on. One transmitter covers most of the UK, provides the shipping forecast to vessels at sea and probably still switches Economy 7 tariff electricity on and off with a data tone. I used to listen to radio 4 on long wave in Denmark in 1991 [I guess when the D layer in the ionosphere disappears each evening]. Atlantic 252 in the late eighties when I lived in west Wales was a fun station.

[@ianliston-smith7921]

I suspect if the Droitwitch (and Westergen and Burghead) 198 kHz transmitters used the indicated ECC83 valves, there wouldn't be a problem! It would be nice to think LW radio was used all over Africa, but it's only used in Algeria from one transmitter on 252 kHz. There is or was a transmitter valve manufacturer who would rebuild high-power transmitter valves for a price the BBC could well afford. But it's a moot point; it's just not sensible to operate and maintain transmitters and antennas and pay for the vast amounts of electricity to run them for a diminishing audience of only a few thousand.

[@OldCanadianguy953]

I’ve had access to longwave reception through my life. But here in Canada I only ever seem to pick up either LW beacons of some kind or just boatloads of radio hash due to switch mode power supplies in consumer electronics here. The one thing I really miss is the shortwave broadcasting I used to enjoy back in the 1970s. FM radio is full of pollution so I don’t even bother listening.

[@j7ndominica051]

Radio 4 reaches far outside England such as in Latvia. I can, in theory, go there to listen to the world service at night. I'm surprised that noise level wasn't mentioned. I say in theory, because I have to go outside to receive. All newer technologies have a limited range, and allows corporations to control over the audience, sometimes target specific advertisements to them.

[@yonkieponkie]

there is nothing to stop replacement valves being made. Its not that FM is the issue, its people listening online that has given the BBC an excuse to close Radio 4 longwave down. Do we get a cheaper licence fee because of this ? No! Why does the BBC insist we fund an outdated licence model when we are paying to find a service they dont want to offer us?

[@cubstig]

Sad times! I just brought the Hacker RP25 out to listen to thr proms on R3. I usually use my Yacht Boy as my main radio, but prefer the warmth of the Hacker for R3. Just tuned about LW and was surprised not to hear RTE. :( I do a lot of wild camping, and AM, particularly LW is sometimes the only the thing that comes through. I rely on R4 (LW) sometimes, very low in the tent, for a good nights sleep! How times change, it'll be very sad when Droitwich finally gets shit down. I shall enjoy it for now!!

[@dvidclapperton]

You deserve a guaranteed a good reception in 2024 listening to Radio 4 in the UK. Only tye expats and those gone on holiday in mainland Europe will lose their bonus once 4LW closes, which of course you would listen to it abroad if you like it. I loved oistening to out of area stations during the daytime or out of country stations during the night that transmitted on MW many years regardless of the quality of the reception and enjoyed it, bur I don't listen to MW now. But once 4LW closes there is still the BBC World Service available to listen to if abroad.

[@NotMarkKnopfler]

Carbon footprint commitments. FFS.

[@azbushcraft283]

Always the excuse

[@LakeNipissing]

This carbon absurdity is beyond comprehension. Could you imagine if Churchill was more worried about carbon footprint commitments than defeating Germany in WWII ?

[@akdenyer]

Yes but the problem is financial. With no advertising revenue it will be hard to justify keeping it going. All our lovely old transmitters are slowly closing. We have one left here near me in New Brunswick. but to maintain the towers and the real estate as well as the transmitters is just too expensive with out advertising. Even with advertising you can do the same with FM for a fraction of the cost. As the BBC is government funded they would have to make a case to keep it going. I am sure new valves could be made and that is just an excuse. People at BRYMAR could help I am sure. They are large specialized tube but these large tubes are still made in the US. So there would be another option. I am sure they would have been in touch with CPI of EIMAC fame. It is more they don't want to rather than 'cannot'.

[@jayrogers8255]

They should keep it going as part of their emergency infrastructure. Speaking of New Brunswick, Nautel makes a 400kW transmitter that will do longwave: the NX400.

[@dvidclapperton]

The Test Match disappearing from 4LW is no big loss with itvbeing on Radio 5 Live Sports Extra DAB and on Freeview on your TV. But there's still the shipping forecast on that can be heard on both FM and LW now.

[@TheKnobCalledTone.]

The valve story sounds like BS. Solid state AM transmitters are still in production, and they're unlikely to cost "many millions of pounds". How hard can it be to source one of those and retune it from MW to LW?

[@janetwinslow2039]

It wouldn't be that hard to retune, but even if the transmitter was 100 % efficient, what's the point it paying for 400kW of electricity for 100,000 listeners?

[@jayrogers8255]

@@janetwinslow2039because they have a mandate to serve people, and those 100k people matter.

[@janetwinslow2039]

@@jayrogers8255 So where do you draw the line? 50,000? 10,000? 1000? Remember that fewer and fewer radios are sold with LW. Yes, one thing causes another, but times change and technology moves on. As has been said, a point comes when finite resources should be targeted where they do the most good. Not only is it the cost of the electricity, but the building and mast maintenance. A visit there will show you what's involved.

[@jayrogers8255]

@@janetwinslow2039 the British government should require the inclusion of LW, & indeed MW AM, in all radios sold. These bands still have good far-reaching capabilities, especially in times of crisis, when FM/DAB/cell may fail due to the number of sites needed, and any of them may be vulnerable. Here in the U.S., a bill is under consideration in Congress to mandate that A.M. radio (we just have the 540-1700 kHz band) be mandatory in all vehicles. Ford was going to drop A.M., but in face of pressure, has relented, and any cars that don’t have A.M., Ford will be able to unlock the band with software! It could be as easy as that to get LW into cars again. Now, why is our Congress looking at keeping A.M. in vehicles, when a lot of A.M.s now have F.M. translators, as well as streaming? Simple: the Emergency Alert System. The E.A.S. is structured in such a way that the big (to us) 50kW A.M.s are essentially the feeder stations to the rest of the E.A.S.. Some even cover more than one state as a “primary entry point” like WBZ-Boston, which is also the P.E.P. for Rhode Island as well as Massachusetts. It’s through these A.M.s that the federal government first gets out warnings to the public, and feeds to other stations down the line. Why has the government invested in this method? Because the big A.M.s have been outfitted with equipment to withstand a catastrophic event. A lot have bunkers and backup studios at their transmitter sites. The thought isn’t that only around 15-20% of the population regularly uses A.M., so it should invest in F.M., it’s that A.M. can withstand an attack or catastrophe and goes far on just one transmitter. Bringing that comparison to Europe, wouldn’t it make sense to keep these stations going in case of a catastrophic event there too? LW can cover entire countries, & good chunks of the continent with just one transmitter! Whereas F.M./D.A.B./cell need many sites (usually the footprint for the equipment is much smaller, & the sites are shared) and all are vulnerable, L.W. & M.W. transmitter sites could be made to withstand any number of catastrophic events and stay on the air in times of crisis. So, it’s not a question of an absolute number of regular listeners, but of potential listeners who need it. Keep the tube/valve transmitters in standby, but get solid state transmitters for the day-to-day operation.

[@jayrogers8255]

Nautel makes a 400kW rig: the NX400.

[@don1estelle]

how about re using 252khz for DRM Digital Radio Mondiale?

[@RobertSweet-nw4tm]

But how many radios are in service capable of receiving LW today, as the presenter points out. Onwards and upwards with technology!

[@AdamEbelgccengineering]

RTE 1 is trying their very best to make people give up on listening to long wave radio altogether. They disconnected elderly listeners who live in Ireland and the UK, and forcing them to use digital platforms. Well, let me tell you something, screen time, digital devices are more brain damaging than listening to a analog portable radio, enjoying music on the stereo system. Also get this, VHF-FM is only line of sight and also DAB+ is not available in Ireland. RTE 1 is doing nothing, but radio listeners in the dark.

[@gerarddebie4572]

I used to listen to radio station Atlantic252 at a distance of more than 500 kilometers from the station. Namely from the south-east of the Netherlands

[@ConnorWalsh_briz]

Is like to add a constructive comment but the video is riddled with inaccuracies. There was a sports station on 252 after Atlantic 252. The RTÉ service has gone off for maintenance over the years to. Other AM broadcasting continues in the UK and unlicensed in Ireland. The campaign to keep 252 was not from the Irish community in the UK but from people in Ireland keen to hurt RTÉ financially.

[@richiehoyt8487]

Considering that Irish expats in the Kilburn district of London would go to the lengths of stacking up radios around lamp~posts (I'm not technical, but presumably to get some sort of a signal boost via induction?) and crowd around to listen during All - Ireland Hurling and Gaelic Football Championship matches, back when RTE used to broadcast weakly on MW (this long before satellite TV, or the LW service, obviously), I find it a little difficult to believe that there wasn't a demand for the Long Wave service amongst Irish listeners in Britain. I'm not saying there was no conspiracy of the kind you describe, but one gets the strong impression that RTE management were only ever able to muster any enthusiasm for a LW service for as long as it represented a cash cow in the form of Atlantic 252 (basically following the same business model, ie beaming pop music to the UK, as Radio Luxembourg had in earlier decades.) In fact I remember listening to "Radio Algiers' " (Algeria's?) English programme on 252 in Cork back in the _early_ 1980's, completely unaware that RTE had been waiving their rights to share the wavelength for years. Should have been no surprise considering we didn't even even have legal _local_ radio to speak of at the time!)

[@PaulEvansRadiosAndMore]

Yes, TeamTalk252. And Atlantic 252 began in 1989, not 1980. If I remember correctly the original application was from Radio Tara, using an agreement with RTE to use a frequency reserved for the Republic - so everyone was exploiting a loophole during the illustrious music station's (and later the sports station's) short life. Once both 'experiments' had run their course, RTE re-claimed the frequency until LW broadcasting was no longer viable. That's the gist of it - not from detailed research but memory, but as blackeyedmees alludes to your video is poorly researched. The BBC are likely to pull the plug next year, by the way.

[@ralphzimmermann]

Grew up listening to "Longwave Radio Atlantic 252".

[@comicmania2008]

Sad that MW and LW services are dying. I like to dx with my old radios, in the back garden fairly frequently during the summer. I bought DAB radios, but they don't work near LED lights, and get interference from my broadband router. Also, my economy 7 RTS electric meter will be obselete soon, and EDF are using the LW transmitter switch off to pressurise me into getting a smart meter!

[@franktillman295]

Sad day😑😑

[@stevenoneill7166]

The sentimental side of me would love to see the likes of Boom Radio or Radio Caroline broadcast on 198 LW, but the realistic side of me acknowledges that there's a good chance that audience figures would be very low & therefore not financially viable. It's a shame because that frequency is very robust in covering parts of the UK that even FM &, more especially, DAB would struggle to cover. I'd like to be proven wrong, I really would, but sadly it is how things are going

[@arcticradio]

Here in Finland I have started Arctic 252 serving the Arctic region. Lower power transmitters are available so in reality these broadcasters could have used less power and a more efficient transmitter. Even reducing broadcast hours. Are we to stop everything just to achieve ‘the carbon footprint?’ Sorry environmentalists but Arctic 252 will be broadcasting from October on long wave. Somebody needs to save radio……..

[@organisten]

Now, that there are better alternatives with today's technology, I can buy. But you are telling me that, with all the technology we have today, it is impossible to construct some newer long wave transmitter that does not need antiquated valves? and for a whole lot less money? I don't buy that...

[@RadioOddities]

I’m not telling you that, the BBC is!

[@organisten]

@@RadioOddities I didn't say thou wert. I said you (ye) were. But like the rest of you who speak English, thou thinkest every address must be to thee, when actually I am meaning you (as a group, and in this case generic).

[@oakwood6922]

What utter nonsense ref. ‘After 43 years’…. Atlantic 252 didn’t go on air until 1989! By my maths 2023-1989 is 34 years! Also, RTE Radio 1 did not pick up the vacant frequency after Atlantic 252s demise - A station called TeamTalk 252, with studios in Leeds, picked up the 252 frequency for a few months between Atlantic closing and RTE Radio 1 taking over the frequency!

[@billmoran3812]

AM broadcasting is the least efficient mode using far more power than needed to deliver the audio signal. It is also the worst audio quality due to electrical and atmospheric noise. AM receivers are becoming scarce, so there is a shrinking audience. It’s time to retire that mode of broadcasting.

[@BrianMorrison]

While you may be correct, the romance of radio will disappear with these stations too. A shame but I understand the reasons.

[@jayrogers8255]

Not least efficient when you consider one transmitter covered Ireland, & 3 cover all of the UK, versus the multitudes of FM & DAB transmitters required to cover the same territory. As for sound quality, anyone who uses Bluetooth has no leg to stand on because that sounds atrocious! But, as for A.M., the receivers are to blame: a good number of them roll off by about 5kHz, and are mono. At least in Ireland, A.M. stereo can be transmitted which isn’t the case in the UK. I’ve heard A.M. stereo & it sounds great! Also, in another post I’ve made the case for these long-range signals staying in the air because of their value in emergencies.

[@LakeNipissing]

We still have hundreds, if not thousands of AM radio stations in Canada and USA. There are new stations which have just gone on the air recently, even classic hits and hip hop / R&B music stations. For news, traffic, weather, sports which don't require high fidelity, but reliable, long range reception, nothing can beat AM. There are dozens of stations which are high power 'clear channel' and can be heard across half the continent. With FM, maybe 100 to 150 miles at best with 100 kW transmitters.

[@johnburns6422]

Given recent Scandals at the Management level of R T E the miss handing of Public money over a number of years during which time the Long Wave Transmitter was closed DUE to Financial constraints on the broadcaster ,The service should return .

[@steeviebops]

They demolished the mast last Thursday so that can't happen now.

[@rogerbixley6911]

I was lucky enough to get qsl card from atlantic 252

[@alexblue6991]

I wonder if someone else will start to broadcast on long wave do you still get numbers stations?

[@karhukivi]

It is almost impossible to buy a portable radio with LW - I have tried and the only ones are "digital" with programmable tuners and eat batteries or have to use a mains adapter. I had a tiny Philips LW/MW radio for years in the bathroom, it even fell into the toilet a few times and was partially melted on a hot radiator, but still worked.

[@davidfalconer8913]

The valves used are nothing like the one shown ... they are HUGE ! ( Ha - Ha ) ..... maybe the Long Wave spectrum might be repurposed for amateur radio folk ( or used for garage opener devices ? ) ...... DAVE™🛑

[@alfiemom8892]

😅 "Promo sm"