The Debate Over Who is the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time

Hey all, been seeing this debate a lot lately, so why not make a video on it?
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[@jasonpaul4308]

I remember when Gretzky hit 802...remember watching it...the celebration...everything. It was HUGE! When Ovi does it...(possibly today!) that deserves just as much weight and celebration...literally NO ONE has passed Gordie Howe in goals except Gretzky...to be the 2nd player to ever do that is incredible and an amazing accomplishment. Historic.

[@klompsauce]

I’m going to DC on the 19th to see the Wings, it would be fitting if he tied and or passed Mr Hockey against Detroit

[@bartsanders1553]

@@klompsauce No!!! Do it against Carolina!

[@jasonpaul4308]

@@klompsauce dude that would be so poetic if he did it then!

[@davidtuttle7556]

@@klompsauce Jelly.

[@kevinbudzinski9576]

And the legendary call on the goal by Gary Thorne when he scored his 802nd goal! "To Gretzky... SCORES!!! He did it! He did it! The greatest goal scorer in National Hockey League history is Wayne Gretzky!"

[@jimmyp410]

My favorite graphic regarding Ovechkin is the one that shows active goal leaders since 2005 and of course it's Ovi followed by Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, and Kane. Then under it includes hits... Ovechkin has 3,331 bodychecks which are more than the next four players combined (2,872). Ovechkin is special in his own awesome way.

[@mercywilliams2698]

Excellent observation! Ovi is the best..will always remember early interview with him..limited English..he said he was there to win The Cup! Downplayed his own early notoriety as a scoring phenom..🏒✨🎯⭐️✅

[@kurtwpg]

Bossy had a wonderful shot, but I don't think you can put him above Gretzky for 2 reasons. 1. Gretzky as you say preferred to pass first. Whereas Bossy played on a line with a HOFer who preferred to pass to Bossy. 2. As you said, Bossy's production would have gone down as he got older. Bossy was .762 GPG in 752 games. At 774 games (end of 89-90) Gretzky had a ..823 GPG.

[@andrewjmschroeder]

Nice stat! I haven't heard that one before.

[@nhlvan]

Lemieux also had a goals per game of around .81 in the same amount of games to begin his career.

[@kentmartin9289]

Exactly. Bossy played 2 seasons before Gretzky's first NHL season, but by the end of Bossy's career, Gretzky was only 30 career goals behind, despite playing 120 fewer games.

[@InsignificantNick]

Man, if Bossy and Lemieux had full careers, I'd like to see what their stats would look like.

[@damonwebb813]

Agreed and that's where you also look at the goal productivity of Ovie, esp considering his physical style, and say wow

[@oceanshrugs9235]

And yes, Rocket deserves to be in the discussion for sure! Props for putting him in there. Some people overlook players like that for more modern stars in videos like this

[@Jaageful]

Healthy Lemieux would have been an absolute beast. He was able to dominate in NHL even in bad condition. For this, Mario was/is number one for me in scoring and passing.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

Surely he would've hit 950 goals at least of he had healthy career. I still can't get over what that super human monster did after he came back from cancer!

[@maxrcrypto]

Durability is part of the game and can't be ignored. Mario wasn't very durable because he didn't like off-ice training and therefore he isn't as impressive to me as Ovechkin who never misses games and puts up great numbers every year. And the era he's playing in is much harder to score in.

[@MrOctober44]

@@maxrcrypto pretty sure working out doesn't prevent cancer

[@everydaycarry1328]

@@maxrcrypto if a healthy in his prime Lemieux played in today's NHL with sticks that make your shot 10 mph harder/faster and you can't hold , cross check, head hunt or interfere with him or it's getting called and plays in 3-3 OT he would fucking dominate

[@Skeevee]

Healthy Lemieux would’ve been a beast but Gretzky was a playmaker and still scored that many if he was a “goal scorer” it literally would not be close at all.

[@EncorePerformances]

Surprised Joe Malone didn't make it on the board, since he has the highest goals per game in a single season (2.2) and is the only player in history to score 7 goals in a single game (I think he had 3 6-goal games, too). Another reason I think the Richard Trophy should keep its name beyond what you mentioned is that despite being the greatest goal scorer of his era, Richard never won the scoring title, so it makes the trophy's name all the more fitting since it only cares about pure goals.

[@alexatl89]

Pavel Bure was such an amazing goal scorer but his knees betrayed him.

[@FischerFan]

Well, same with Bobby Orr and he was the greatest player of all time.

[@joeb2151]

I struggle with this, clearly Ovechkin is doing his thing, but so many empty netters, and just camping out and waiting for somebody to pass it to him to launch from his spot. Gretzky/Lemeiux just flying down the ice and scoring at will, making a goalie look stupid will always seem like more effort to me.

[@todddavis5433]

You gotta wonder how many goals Jagr would have if he stayed in the NHL his whole career instead of multiple seasons in Europe

[@EM-ve9bh]

I remember in 06 I thought he had a legit chance of getting close to Gretzky. If he would have stayed in the NHL I definitely think he would have passed Howe.

[@axe2grind244]

True story. Imagine if Pavel Bure was in his prime right now. He was scoring when nobody was, when the 3 best goalies of all time were all playing their best 70 games a year. He would be automatic 75 goals a year in 2022.

[@rolieg81]

Don't forget Bure never played with a Hall of fame centerman (or at least a plyr on Backstrom's level)... imagine if he did

[@Roller11111]

The fact that Gretzky would win a couple of scoring titles (Art Ross) on his assists alone while leading the league in goals is completely bonkers. I believe he had accomplished this twice.

[@cowetascore8476]

Ovechkin ranks 1st in PPG with 292. Mike Bossy ranks 28th with 180. Ovi also has 53 empty net goals to Bossy's 15. That accounts for 43.1-percent of Ovi's goals. Give me Bossy, who scored mid-air in the 82 Cup finals, has 9 consecutive 50 goal seasons (Ovi doesn't), a 50-in-50 campaign and 4 Cups.

[@mkrcivoj]

And let Ovi play against that mediocre stand up goalies with smaller equipment.

[@Peksisarvinen]

And if Ovi played in the Canadian bus driver rec league that Bossy played in, he would've scored 500 goals per season. What is your point exactly? And cups are not individual awards, but team awards, in case you didn't know. Patrick Maroon has won three in a row recently.

[@joeidaho5938]

I think Bossy was the greatest. Sad that he had such a short career. Also...for totals, I think it's narrowminded and selective to ignore the goals scored in the WHA by Howe and Gretzky...and Hull.

[@Peksisarvinen]

You really can't have someone as the greatest, and follow it up with "sad that he had such a short career". Longetivity and durability have to be considered. It's much easier to score 50 goals in 82 games than it is to score 100 goals in 164 games.

[@joeidaho5938]

@@Peksisarvinen That was a lame response, bud. The shortness of his career cannot be blamed on Bossy. You're looking at this in very shallow manner. No one has matched the scoring pace of Bossy....ever. Bossy scored 50 or more for 9 consecutive seasons. No one has matched that...and it's likely that no one ever will. So much for your long term perspective....lol.

[@paulschmitz9175]

@@joeidaho5938 It's doesn't matter. Durability is a real consideration, no matter how much you and others wish to deny it.

[@joeidaho5938]

@@paulschmitz9175 You've got your opinion...and I have mine. Durability is certainly not the only consideration here. It's simply about who one thinks was the greatest goal scorer....and not about longevity in the game. Howe would win the longevity game...without a doubt.

[@jeremiegould1978]

Not disagreeing with anything said, but Lemieux before his first retirement also averaged 0.823 goals per game. Had he not come out of retirement, would he replace Bossy in these conversations when related to goals per game? It doesn't change the fact that he did come out of retirement and I enjoyed watching him again!

[@oceanshrugs9235]

Gretzky easily imo. If he went for goals more, catching Gretzky would not be a discussion. Ever. This isn't a dig at Bossy, Ovi, etc. but Wayne was just bonkers.

[@kurtwpg]

323 goals in 314 games over 4 seasons. The only guy who came close in any of those seasons was his line mate in the 4th one.

[@ChampionGamingUniver]

I'm surprised to not see Georges Laraque on this list. Absolute beast

[@Peksisarvinen]

He really was, put the puck in the net at least four times in his career, which isn't that far away from 900 if you think about it.

[@patch8376]

When you contemplate the number of atoms in the known universe, and then add to those the unknown atoms in the unknown universe, and then split all of those known and unknown atoms, Laraque is definitely only mere hundreds away from it.

[@fractaljack210]

For Ovi, I always add in the two lock-out years, same for Crosby with his injury year and a half.

[@angushiltz4880]

So then do you add in the 6 years Howe played in the WHA? Or the 2 years Howe was retired before the WHA?

[@fractaljack210]

@@angushiltz4880 Yes.

[@TheConspiratorist]

You could also add Gretzky's insane WHA point totals.

[@fractaljack210]

@@TheConspiratorist Shannon mentioned the WHA totals for Howe, so I concentrated on Ovi and Crosby. I think the WHA should be added to the totals.

[@blackenedmagic888]

What about Howe's career? When he first started playing, each season was only 50 games and, for the majority (17 years) of his career, the regular season was only 70 games.

[@staceyserene2436]

Lemieux hands down my pick. A healthy Mario would have had Wayne numbers I'm confident of that. I know you can't change someone's health but it's incredible to think about, he was so dominant.

[@michaelkeller5927]

Why didn't he have Wayne numbers in the 80s when Wayne was putting up untouchable numbers. Wayne is so good he's in his own tier

[@THE_bchat]

@@michaelkeller5927 In the 80s, Lemieux played on a terrible team. With his 199-point season, he had one good offensive player to work with (Coffey). If Mario was on a team like the Oilers in the 80s, he would've eclipsed 200 points on a regular basis.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

The thing about Ovechkin is the surprising power he can get on his wrist shot from non ideal body positions. I swear it's almost as hard as his one-time.

[@ChimoWilson]

or on toe drags, even his snap shot is crazy hard. I swear I've seen him give a "light" snap shot and you hear it hit the goalie / boards as hard as most peoples slap shots.

[@lorenzovalencia6816]

I'll always say Mario was the greatest goalscorer, I truly believe he could've well eclipsed 1000 goals if he had a healthy career

[@damonwebb813]

Remember he also was ready to quit because of the ridiculous clutching, grabbing, slashing that was holding g back players

[@roccocasazza4145]

Lemieux’s shot is nothing compared to OV’s. The amount of goalies that simply get fooled by the puck’s path or simply go through their body is staggering.

[@paulschmitz9175]

You can not conveniently discount durability...it's a real consideration.

[@Lebowski55]

Brett Hull scored a lot of goals via the slap shot

[@SuperStrik9]

Brett Hull's 86 goals in 1990-91 was insane. Closest any player has come to beating Gretzky's 92 goal single season record.

[@thewoundedcrow7846]

Imagine if bure had Gretzky passing him the puck

[@WordAte]

As someone who doesn't bet on the games, I like these videos. Adds a lot of value to my knowledge and drunken arguments with other fans/friends.

[@jtyaks5924]

You spoke about the curved stick a lot but I'm surprised you didn't mention goalie rule changes

[@RRaquello]

The flexi-plastic sticks they use now are as big a factor, if not bigger, than the curves. You see guys get off shots now they could never dream of with a wooden stick.

[@J_Aaron_L]

What a group of guys! What a video!

[@Urrrgcantdecide]

Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bossy all have a case to be made but in my mind, if (and really when) Ovi passes Gretzky and likely eclipses 900 goals, he will solidify himself as the greatest goalscorer ever. He might not have the hands of Lemieux and the ability to go through teams singlehandedly (although he has managed it a couple times) but his touch for scoring is simply unbelievable. And to do it consistently in the modern era against incredible goaltenders and teams that utilize analytics and all of hockey history's strategies to stop him is an amazing feat. He could get 50 again this year potentially at age 37. If Lemieux and Bossy were able to enjoy longer careers, this may be a different conversation today but I think Ovi deserves his place at the top of the mountain

[@goose5462]

When OV was young he cut threw teams with ease. What makes OV stand out is he was a hitting beast in his youth, that is so rare in the NHL. Lemieux, Gretzky, and Bossy combined probably didn't hit as many people as OV.

[@ben_cross21]

Spot on with Ovi, and also when he was younger he was like a mcdavid cutting through defenses with speed and skill. He then adapted and developed thee best one timer ever. Dude can score no matter method

[@TimLawless-py3ps]

Dear Mr. "Hockey Guy" -- really like how you analyzed this and broke things down in goals per game versus aggregate goals which is an approach Bill James would have done in looking at MLB homerun hitters (i.e, career versus "peak"). I would have added two other analytics, however, to your equation: shooting percentage and Hat Tricks either in aggregate or as a percentage of games played which are both an indication of pure goal scoring dominance. With the addition of those two indices, Ovi dips a bit as his Hat Tricks are way below Gretz who is #1 all-time at 60 (regular and playoffs) and Super Mario who was #2 all-time at 53. Putting Hat Tricks in equation elevates Bossy and Richard especially as a percentage of games while their aggregates are among top 6 with Bossy #3 while Ovi #6 at 31 (Richard #5 at 33). Shooting percentage narrows it to Gretz and Mario when you look at Mario's 19% and Gretzky's 17.6% with Ovi at "only" 12.9%. Again, Bossy increases given his shooting was over 20%! To break the virtual tie between Gretzky and Mario, you'd have to go with Gretzky's own testament that Mario was a better goal scorer especially as witnessed in the '87 Canada Cup where Mario was the trigger man to Gretzky's set up. I'll admit that era adjustment (a third indice to add) helps Ovi and hurts Bossy along with Gretz and Mario but not enough to be all-time best where you'd need to then re-evaluate Howe and Jagr and throw them back in. Bottom line on greatest goal scorers when balancing all factors: Mario; Gretz; Bossy; Ovi; and Richard. I'd throw in an honorable mention to the "Golden Jet" as he left NHL at late prime and scored over 300 WHA goals and like Gretz and Howe, had over 1,000 professional goals. Agree, Mathews still too early and like Bure, not enough body of work over time.

[@fsdsddsad]

I think it's Bossy. He had 9 straight 50 goal seasons and called his last season (Where he only scored 38 goals) a failure of a season. I think he would have the record for most goals in a career if not injuries.

[@Rex73777]

Exactly his career was cut short he would’ve beaten all of Gretzky’s records if he had as long of a career

[@gam3rflow5]

@@Rex73777 but see to me longevity and availability matters he scored at a crazy pace but whos to say he doesnt slow way down, and i think doing it for a long time at a good pace is what constitues the greatest, gretzky or ovi imo, they did it for a long time and at a high pace for a long time

[@Deenaziamazinjg14]

@CWS and TKP 66-02 Ovechkin has 644 assists to his 800 goals that’s a lot more than two goals per assist like you put in your comment! He gets .805 assists per goal.

[@googleisshit3220]

@@Rex73777 ..he would have broken all of Gretzky s records ..wtf are you on...I pick Bossy as best goal scorer but your comment is garbage lol.

[@MrOctober44]

@@gam3rflow5 you can go in circles. Bossy played in a much more physical division and conference which certainly led to his back injuries. Ntm, the unwritten rule of never hitting Wayne. I know most guys couldn't even catch him anyway, lol but he did have two distinct advantages of Bossy. I go with Ovi, but you can debate this stuff forever. 🙂

[@ryanjulian4148]

Great debate, no question I thought it would be the great one forsure, but interesting argument comparing Era. Jagr had the most game winning goals, best scorer when it mattered But for me it most goals, how many championship won, how many scoring titles earned, but the deciding factor to me that i nevered seen on your stats was the most 5 on 5 goals, which is Gretzky at 617, penalties has change from era to era, hence man advance. This is my tie breaker

[@mercywilliams2698]

McDavid feels like infinity in hockey realm..a force of scoring energy..everyone takes a pause to watch and marvel..

[@slauzon01]

He has the Bure, Lafleur exciting energy indeed.

[@warrenbanks5201]

Mike Bossy was my favourite player growing up. I am definitely biased towards Bossy. I wish he'd stayed healthy enough for us to find out what kind of totals he could have pulled off.

[@theawayfan6052]

I find Howe to be the most impressive, the equipment that was available at the time, the rules, his longevity. Wasn't alive when he played but his highlights are something to behold. Mr. Hockey takes the cake for me!

[@jefflarson1652]

Keep in mind that for his first 13 seasons goalies didn't wear a mask. It wasn't just his equipment that was different.

[@kurtwpg]

Goalie equipment was crap too. It all balances out.

[@damonwebb813]

And very few players at the elite level could play in his early career, the tough ess needed to play, the stick work, elbows etc

[@sangfroideur]

I am 77 and have seen them all when they played at the Montreal Forum. Here is my assessment; Bobby Orr was the greatest innovator the game has seen. There were very few offensive defensemen before his arrival. He not only re-defined the role of the defenseman but set the standards of excellence for all others to follow. Mario Lemieux was the best technical player ever. He had size, speed and the best hands in the game. Many of his goals had a unique soft touch. If not of his battle with cancer he would have been capable of another 200-300 points at least. Gretzky had mental skills beyond the chart. He could read and anticipate the play which explains all the assists. Gordie Howe is the most complete players to this day. Try to imagine Orr, Gretzky or Lemieux battling for the puck in the corners, dropping the gloves when needed and while being the most chippy player on the ice. Howe had the Brad Marchand type of intensity and was feared physically. He has yet to be matched as a two-way superstar of the game.

[@RRaquello]

@@sangfroideur Orr was also a very good fighter and second to none in his time as a tough, physical player when he needed to be. That's the difference between players then and now. Now, the top guys aren't allowed to play tough, even by their own team. There was an extra dimension to guys like Howe and Orr that today's players don't have.

[@lankancheetah]

Lol that random comment about Phil Esposito being handsome had me chuckling.

[@swedreamhack5308]

I have Ovechkin as #1 all time; primarily because he developed the pp one timer to almost perfection and secondly, which many forget more and more, he was absolutely insane during his first few season - a living highlight reel similiar to Bure when he came into the league but two sizes bigger and stronger. I put Bossy as #2, Lemieux as #3, Bure as #4, Gretzky as #5, Selanne as #6, Neely as #7, Br. Hull #8, Jagr #9, Kurri #10. I can't really rank Richard, Howe, Bo. Hull, Orr as they played way before I watched the game and there's very little footage to go on, they should have been the best at some point when they were active.

[@maxrcrypto]

Gretzky might have better individual seasons, but Ovechkin's consistency and doing it in a low scoring era makes him the best. There are lots of guys who had multiple 50 goal seasons in the 70s-90s. Since the '05 lockout only 1 guy has done it year after year. Ovechkin.

[@timsmothers8740]

I remember watching Dave Keon playing in the WHA. And I noticed that he was playing with a flat blade. And he had snap or sort of a Slapshot using his back hand. And I have a Gordie Howe stick that has a crazy large curve from his Houston Aeros days. In Those days the early to mid 70's I think the NHL had something like a 1/2 inch limit, and WHA was at 1-1/2 inches .

[@georgelaplante1129]

Love it, somebody that tells it like it is. I commented earlier on Brad, gasser, Gassoff. An inforcer. I don't think he played that many games but he came from the interior, Quesnel. He had two older brothers Ken and Bob, Bob being the tough guy in St. Louis. The toughest guy back on the farm, was the old man. Every now and then we'd see a few NHL's in town around haying season.

[@sim0n17]

I just thought of something, just for comparison's sake take the power play goals out and then compare the numbers for the top 50 goalscorers of all time. could be enlightening. That leaves Gretzky with 690, Ovechkin with 508, and Howe with 590. could make that list of all time scorers a drastically different order.

[@larryn1929]

You should have seen the bends we put in our street hockey sticks! That orange ball flew like a rocket! We all wore welts from it.

[@triandfit1]

One thing to remember is that no other player other than Bossy scored 9 consecutive 50 plus goal seasons which started his rookie year.

[@Neon002121]

Great discussion. I might give it to Ovie myself given 1. The dead puck era, 2. The lockout and shortened seasons during prime years, 3. The fact that he was playing against modern goalie gear. Those 3 still outweigh the modern stick for me. That said, I knew Bossy was great but I never realized he was .76 gpg. That’s phenomenal.

[@ben_cross21]

Plus Covid era where Ovi played less games

[@tima9854]

What about including a look at 50 goals in the first 50 games in your choice? Not many have done that once let alone 3 times by Gretzky.

[@Phil-gw9vr]

I would have loved to have seen Gretzky, Lemieux and Bossy play with today's licorice whip composite sticks. On the other hand, Ovie,s one timer from the circle would have sent many 70's and 80's goalies into early retirement.

[@rickyaz8640]

Wouldn’t have got away with posting up in that spot all the time without getting in a fight every game. Different era

[@theknowledge7024]

Well I'm happy to say that I was able to witness these major accomplishments in my life time! Gretzky's goals, assists and points and to be able to see someone break such a prolific record as Ovi will! The only thing missing is a Cup in Leaf land!

[@davidtuttle7556]

Well the Caps and Blues both got it done. The Keystone Cops should be able t as well.

[@HogEnjoyer]

Ovi is gonna break 1000 goals

[@GreekboyyD]

No he won’t. He’ll walk away at the age of 40 after his current contract is done.

[@kieranperreaultdit-morin9262]

Alexander Ovechkin is what Bossy would have been 100% healthy

[@TheConspiratorist]

No. Bossy was better. If Bossy had a full career like Ovi's, Bossy would have eclipsed 1,000 goals long ago. Ovi was Bure perfected.

[@blackenedmagic888]

@@TheConspiratorist Nope. Ovi and Bure are two entirely different players - Ovi is a pure power forward and Bure was closer in style to Crosby.

[@KyleMacSkill]

@@TheConspiratorist oh stop it. Bossy was scoring 70 goals at time when Gretzky and Lemieux and hull were throwing up well over a goal per game. No one in this era comes close to Ovi

[@paulschmitz9175]

@@TheConspiratorist Durability is a very REAL consideration.

[@clydeblair9622]

The most thoughtful episode.

[@damonwebb813]

Ovie also had to put up with 1 lost season due to lockout plus 2 more part seasons...otherwise he could be the goal leader now

[@420Emmure]

You also need to recognize how much better goaltending is in Ovechkin’s era. Goalies during Gretzky’s era were not as good. The stats reflect this.

[@BuddaBoomer]

One current player I can't believe you forgot is Michael Pezzetta. Future Hall of Famer for sure!

[@briangrover873]

I think an interesting perspective would be greatest offensive producer. Goals scored, primary assists, creating high danger chances.

[@swavekbu4959]

The other thing to consider is that Matthews is just now hitting his prime and has learned how to score in the NHL. Bossy entered the NHL and started scoring 50 every year from year 1. No "learning how to score" in the NHL, he just dominated from day 1. So, compare Matthews first 10 years to Bossy's first 10 years as a kind of comparison.

[@StrongKURTR]

You could do goals per game by ratio of average goals per team per game in each season

[@SverigeiSverige]

Gretzky's last goal was 1072, NHL + WHA, including playoff. Howe had 1071.

[@angushiltz4880]

First of all this is about regular season record. Secondly Gretzky only played 1 year in WHA and only had 46 goals that year in the regular season. Howe played 6 years in the WHA and if you add his regular season goals to his 801 you would have 980 goals.

[@peterhillerup6006]

Bobby Hull had 1018.

[@SverigeiSverige]

@@angushiltz4880 You don't get it, his last goal was a record setter. NHL 894 + 122 = 1016 WHA 46 + 10 = 56 Totals 1072 For Howe: NHL 801 + 68 = 869 WHA 174 + 28 = 202 Totals 1071 i0.wp.com/russianmachineneverbreaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/gretzky-god.jpg?fit=977%2C495&ssl=1&w=640

[@SverigeiSverige]

@@angushiltz4880 This is about the most goals. thehockeynews.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1200/MTg1MDUxMTA4OTgwODkyOTUz/brilliant-compilation-shows-the-final-goals-of-nhl-greats.jpg

[@junahbirchwater8514]

Excellent video.i agree with you on Ovechkin but it certainly is a bit subjective. If I were a goalie facing a shooter one-on-one though, I would be most scared of Lemieux. Gretzky had an accurate slap shot. Bossy had one quick release like Matthews does. Bobby Hull scored over 900 goals if you count the WHA games, so I'd put him near the top too. The Rocket and Howe are in the discussion as well

[@larryn1929]

I love the hat and the jersey!! Bossy 1st 9 years 50+ goals every year. I am biased.

[@damonwebb813]

The number of high quality goalies there are now, versus other eras, And the size of goalies, pads etc, team play

[@grazynazambeanie5963]

" you don't know where it's going, so you might as well duck " lol

[@trevorlambert4226]

One thing people forget, or perhaps even don't know when looking at stats from the early days (e.g. Cy Denneny) is that there were no lines. They played the entire game. I'd say that dwarfs the straight stick in terms of effect on scoring. Imagine tripling the ice time for modern players. There's other factors that affected scoring, both positive and negative. Goalies had basically no pads, and they always stayed on their skates. No forward passing. A very different game, and I don't think there's any point comparing stats between modern era players and pre depression era.

[@ccccc33333]

Always an interesting topic... I don't understand what it is with sports where eras always have to be brought up. It's like evolution doesn't exist when talking about sports. If you're the best, when the sport is at it's best, and as a result most difficult, you're best. No questions asked. Time put in, technology, human evolution, and advances in science simply make it so. You can have the best of an era, sure. But ALL TIME, is reserved for.... all of the time.... ever. Put that era argument into any other relevant situation; Today's cars, or Benz Patent Motor Car? Today's schools, or 1900s schools? Today's medicine, or 1900s medicine? Lot's of stuff had good aspects for it's time, but ALL TIME, overall BEST, belongs to the highest, best performance ever in any subject. No one ever disagrees with that unless it's sports lol... Fan bias i guess. Would talents from the past be better with todays standard? Obviously. Are those hypotheticals real life? Nope. Sidney Crosby however is, and he's the best hockey player ever. Connor Mcdavid expands his game, and that title can be his........ So yes, Alex Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer ever. Plop him in the 70s or 80s as is, and he'd rip 10 a game right through those (now).. sorry excuses for goalies. (thanks to, again.. no matter how "unfair" it is.. evolution).. Put Wayne in the league as he was now, and... wait... he wouldn't even make the AHl... So LITERALLY, the best to ever do something, is almost always going to be who, or whatever is currently, the best.

[@ccccc33333]

@Milan Lucky This is not "recency bias", it's evolution my guy. Did you read anything i wrote? Or just not understand it somehow? Hypothetically saying "Gretzky would score any time" is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, he doesn't play anymore.. Todays players would beat Gretzky's teams playing shorthanded all game. You want 80s cancer treatment? or Todays? Guess which one is LITERALLY better, thanks to evolution? Not comparing eras. Which is better?

[@Goldlung1]

I think one thing you forgot to mention in your video is how much goalies and the team defensive play have evolved and improved over the years, i agree with what you said about all those players but in the 50es goalies were standing instead of using butterflie style, i think all that give even more credit to ovechkin

[@pierrepellerin249]

If Lemieux had been healthy with a 20 years career, I am willing to bet he would have scored 1000 goals. So to me, he is the greatest goal scorer in NHL history.

[@deansmith6593]

Same with Mike Bossy, whose career was cut very short due to back issues.

[@michaelkeller5927]

What a horrible argument. He played in the same generation as Gretz and couldn't touch his numbers. "derrr if Lemieux played 50 years and never missed a game he'd have the record".

[@pierrepellerin249]

@@michaelkeller5927 Lemieux is only 200 goals behind Gretzky with 500 less games played. If he had played those games and only scored 0.5 goal per game, he would have easily been ahead of Gretzky. When he came back after 3 years away from the game, he scored 35 goals in 43 games, imagine how many goals he would have scored in those 3 and a half season missed (280 games) That alone would likely have been enough to pass Gretzky.

[@scottmessenger8639]

I'm a Bruins fan since the late 60s and Bobby Orr ruled the hockey world. To me Orr was the best overall player but I have to say Gretzky was the best goal scorer I ever saw. Of course everyone has their own opinion.

[@CertifiedClapaholic]

As a Red Wings fan, it's Wayne. You don't score almost 100 more goals more than 2nd place if you're not the best ever. It's Wayne.

[@Mik-xq2co]

Imagine if Gretzky had been more focused on scoring vs being a play maker (as a center should be) and helping his team score goals. He likley would have scored 1200-1500 goals if he was focused on goal scoring. Great goal scores such as Howe, Bossy, Ovechkin and Bret Hull were all wingers. Playing wing has one main objective and that is to score goals and play a bit of defense. The center position (quarterback of the team) is far more important and is not solely focused on goal scoring!

[@bobroberts2067]

If "Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time" is the best at scoring, not who scores/has scored the most, my vote would go to Mike Bossy with Pavel Bure a very close second. That's at ability to score. I'm old, I've seen them all, over all the "eras" since the fifties, including The Rocket himself. (Maybe call it "The Greatest Lift You Out Of Your Seat When He Touches the Puck".) Fun debate though, kudos THG.

[@Shawnaldo-jh3ve]

It's Gretzky. If Gretzky focused on scoring goals as much as Ovi has through his career Gretzky would have way more than he already does.

[@Renegade322]

The league was scoring more when gretzky was around, and yet he is so far apart from other people who played in his time for goals scored, there is a reason for that.

[@TheManny717]

Guaranteed to start arguments, not ending them is always who’s the greatest athlete of all time, regarding on their sport. 🤷‍♂️

[@guitar1-qj8jg]

Can't argue with any of those guys on the list. I think any list of exciting goal scorers that includes Guy Lafleur should include Marcel Dionne and Gilbert Perrault. Dionne is often overlooked because he never won a cup but he was an incredibly talented goal scorer who played for some frankly poor teams. Perrault was an exciting player from day 1 and falls into that category of a guy who passed as much as he shot. He'd go through an entire team and set a teammate up for a goal. Very selfless and talented player who didn't have the chance to hoist the cup, but still had a great career.

[@benjaminlynch9958]

It’s hard to not give this to Gretzky just because of how consistent he was. His first 10 years in the league he scored 637 goals and eclipsed 50 goals 9 times. And like Shannon mentions, those numbers could have been a lot higher if Gretzky was a shoot first player rather than pass first. During those first 10 years he also accumulated 1,200 assists! Pretty sure 30-40 of those at a minimum could have been goals if he was concerned about personal goal scoring records.

[@jayvardy]

Ovechkin has a higher goals per game number.

[@maxrcrypto]

Gretzky played in the 80s. 60 goals in 1980 is 40 goals in 2022 so Ovechkin has already surpassed him if you adjust by era.

[@Thick1]

The easiest assessment is total goals. It removes all subjectivity. So currently it's #99. So maybe a better discussion is who was/is the greatest sniper in league history. I also agree that you shouldn't compare eras, but it needs to be pointed out that the 80's saw an abundance of starting goalies under 5'10". How many Gretzky goals were scored on 5'8" Mike Vernon? And the goalie pads from that era and before.... Very good point about stick technology evolving. They need it against the size of modern day goalies. As always, I appreciate the level of effort by THG.

[@ColonizerChan]

Bossy is 1 letter away from likely changing his last name if he was playing in this era

[@SingleMaltMac]

In my opinion Bossy is the best goal scorer of all time, but not as many people watched him play. He was so good! Next list…best captains in the history of the NHL!

[@Damphouse]

I have a hard time with choosing between Bossy or Brett Bull for 5. Lemieux, Gretzky, Ovi and Bobby Hull are my sure picks

[@markhodge7]

To those who never saw Gretzky play, his 81-82 season stamped him, in my opinion, as the greatest goal scorer ever. 50 before Jan 1, in 39 games, and 92 overall. He seemed to be scoring at will as we watched him. It really looked easy. He didn't overpower goaltenders or snipe corners, which he could do. He just made it look so simple. Little chips. Quick misdirection. He was just amazing to watch. After that he seemed to prefer to have his teammates join in the fun and to set them up with easy goals. Never forget that if he'd never scored a single goal, he would still have the overall lead in total points. If he'd decided to stick to goal scoring, he'd have wound up with 1100 goals. I have no doubt about that. There was a 9-year stretch where he could have had 10-20 more goals per year if he hadn't been putting up record setting assist numbers. He truly was The Great One.

[@kurtwpg]

Ovechkin is now at the point in his career where people are finally acknowledging he is going to get the career goal record. Gretzky was at that point around age 23.

[@Poopypoopyy]

I think it’s also worth mentioning that Gretzky is the only player to score 90 goals in a season. I get that scoring was more in them at era but that is something in his favor over Ovechkin or anyone else

[@maxrcrypto]

Well it's not possible to score 90 goals anymore. No one has even hit 70.

[@Poopypoopyy]

@@maxrcrypto exactly. An no one was scored 70 or 90 back in those days either besides Gretzky

[@maxrcrypto]

@@Poopypoopyy Actually a few did hit 70 around that time. Esposito, Hull, Selänne, Mogilny, Lemieux.

[@damonwebb813]

Spoiler alert there is no definitive answer. And thats a great thing. The variety and skill of players during an ever changing landscape or ice-scape So many factors, and so many elite of the elite. I like sane discussions of who's the greatest,

[@mariovaccarella6854]

Try Being The Unfortunate Goalie In Street Hockey. Not Only Did I Have A Tony Esposito Chicago Black Hawks Jersey, But, With Little Padding Or None On My Chest, Etc., I Actually Felt Like Tony Esposito On Slap Shots. LOL

[@deadlyredly]

what was OVs GPG avg after his first 10 season compared to Bossy?

[@kurtwpg]

Miniscule compared to Gretzky's .823 through 11 that I mentioned above. (It would be higher through 10)

[@skeksis1085]

Gretzky holds the record and Ovechkin looks like he might just take it, but these eyes have never seen someone do it at such a high level as Mario Give him a full career and I bet he'd hold the record a lot higher than Gretzky does

[@BType13X2]

What if Gretky while he was a competant goal scorer chose to score instead of pass? That's part of this as well, the guy out of boredom would bank pucks off his teammates into the net. And when he left his teammates production dropped significantly. There's a whole lot to be said when you choose to pass when you can easily score just to help out a buddy.

[@TrAvi5link]

I think longevity should factor into Ovechkin's favour, he's been a physical phenomenon to say the least & it's not like he's even had an all timer season that stands out way above the rest of his others, he's just been so consistent.

[@janellemaynait]

I smelled a career video about the rocket very soon

[@kalaupun]

Richard has to be in the top 5 both for the reasons you explained and also just because of the cultural legend that grew around his goal-scoring, the way it became a seemingly immortal societal phenomenon in Quebec.

[@alexthebasilisk]

There's no reason at this point to think that Steven Stamkos won't age like a fine wine as well. Will be very interesting to see where he ends up when it's all said and done. Injuries likely cost him a chance to hit the 700s or even 800s, but here's hoping. :)

[@kurtwpg]

He had some health issues but I do expect him to finish above 700 below 800.

[@Peksisarvinen]

I love Stammer, but he won't hit 700 or 800's. He's already transitioning into more of a passer.

[@Clappincardboard]

I’m a simple man who likes simple things. You mention pavel bure in a video and I like it!

[@serfindukdb1776]

i understand why you couldn't include everyone, so here's just a couple of 2nd tier honorable mentions: Peter Bondra, Zigmund Palffy, Peter Forsberg, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Brendan Shanahan, Sergei Fedorov, Jeremy Roenick, Steve Larmer, Mike Madano, Joe Nieuwendyk, Cam Neely, Theo Fleury, Mike Gartner, Luc Robitaille, Alexander Mogilny... just to name a few from my "era", lol

[@brandongonzalez6034]

Alexei Kovalev could be on this list for the ability of scoring at will. If he was willing though

[@wekkankq6704]

Isn't it a shame that anytime these debates, whether it is about goal scoring or best player, whenever Lemieux is mentioned, there is always the disclaimer, "if only he had been healthy?" Great video. Thank you for uploading.

[@slauzon01]

The fact that he produced unhealthy is even more remarkable. The man was so good with a broken body that he still leaps Crosby, and now McDavid in terms of scoring dominance. Lemieux was super human.

[@davekuhn9342]

Hey Shannon! You mentioned that you think adjusted goals/point are inherently flawed; I'd love to know why you think so. Obviously no system is perfect but it has some pretty solid math behind it. What do you think it misses? How could it be better? I love your stuff and I'd love to hear your opinion! Maybe a potential future video? Thank You!

[@theMrFouldsy]

To me, Gretzky mightn't have scored his goals at the rate of Bossy, Lemieux, Ovi, but he scored his goals while he almost wasn't even trying to score them. To do it without trying just blows me away.

[@damonwebb813]

Some of those players benefited from a great offensive dman - centerman/winger Bossy-potvin-Trottier Gretzky-Coffey-Kurri Lemieux--Murphy-stevens Ovie-Green-Backstrom Richard-?-Lach

[@grazynazambeanie5963]

Don't forget when that talented scorer , but skinny kid Gretzky came into the league so did the goon squad. If you touch Gretzky the goons would pay you a visit your next shift , the biggest reason Gretzky lasted so long . Ovechkin is his own goon squad , you have to give him extra points for that . Mario was a pleasure to watch , so smooth , just glided across the ice ..

[@20thCenturyManTrad]

I'm an old timer at heart but the greatest goalscorer from the blue line in, is Rocket Richard. He never took the same shot in succession, he had moves and was driven to score goals. I'm saying all this as a Leafs fan who steadfastly hates the Habs.

[@mgguygardening]

Popcorn is popped....time to read the comments! 🤣

[@yogibearstie]

THG gives a giant middle finger to Marcel Dionne and his 731 goals which was the second highest ever when he retired and he never had the benefit of a great second line like Guy and Bossy. Teams could completely focus on him his entire career and 731. Ouch.

[@yogibearstie]

It is 1000 miles between LA and Vancouver and that was the closest team to the Kings and they flew commercial. Put that into your curved stick, bad back algorithm.

[@mik8352]

I think there are too much factors to take in account. As you said, some have retired almost in their prime, leaving the .avg high. But, the greatest scorer of all time, is the one that is constant. Mike Bossy made 9 seasons with 50+ goals. Where Mike stands out, is that he made that in row. 9 seasons in row. Think of it. He's the GOAT.

[@mikkoluukkonen3445]

Can you make Selänne career make up, i mean hes comeback is unreal

[@whitemeat100]

We need to throw Pat LaFontaine's name in more often.

[@dizimalmtg455]

Give us a best offensive defenseman of all time vid plz

[@Phil-gw9vr]

Bobby Orr...done.

[@TheConspiratorist]

@@Phil-gw9vr Could argue Bourque.

[@Phil-gw9vr]

@@TheConspiratorist you absolutely could. being from Boston and seeing every game both guys played I have to go with Orr. 2 league scoring titles and i think a +130 one year. Ray was definitely a beast,could do it all.

[@dizimalmtg455]

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