The Decline of Jingliu - How She Fell Off So Quickly | Honkai: Star Rail

[@VarsII]

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[@zente3003]

Simply put: Hoyo add an ice Nihility that helps with freezing enemies

[@Levasic2]

Next planet will have freeze meta source: trust me bro

[@snakecake-mw7vw]

is not Nihility, rather is because Hyper characters have been neglected. Last time they got a character, it was Sparkle but she doesn't do what Robin does for FUA and HMC does for break teams

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

Ice abundance

[@manhcuongle7032]

Isn't that Pela?

[@madiska2702]

How would freezing help Jingliu

[@vinn2880]

Can HSR players 0-cycle taking a shower? 🤔

[@naissol]

Yeah they can. After turning on the shower they advance action to turn off the water again before they get hit.

[@perchatka]

What's the problem? Unlike genshin players (me included) they can turn on auto battle and easily go take a shower

[@Person_You_Dont_Know]

@@naissol😭

[@rickfrancisong3010]

uhhh yeah, its not like this game is sweaty

[@cookies23z]

they do :/ They do a lot of math, so the actual challenge is touching grass and/or going outside rather then simply showering.

[@CaramelMunchie]

Jingliu never fell off. Hoyo just forgot to add ice enemies, or ice characters as a whole. It's been like 6 months since our last ice elite/boss. And that was Aventurine. Carefully crafted to counter Jingliu in every way ( Pure ST, energy drain, waste enhanced state with dice)

[@guoba213]

treatment of Ice type characters is the same in Genshin, we haven't seen a cryo character rerun in a while

[@GhostyBoi119ts]

@@guoba213The goat Capitano finna change that🙏🏾

[@kouseigi3448]

she fell off, because she doesnt excel at anything other than try to do DPS and there are dps that do that now in easier ways (as FF, Boothill, Feixiao and Acheron) Is not the lack of enemies, is just that her kit just fell off

[@williamthatsmyname]

Also new characters also have either weakness implant or they ignore them. Ie Acheron, SAM and *Feixiao

[@mitchsz]

You just explained why she fell off - no supports.

[@ShiraFuyu2022]

In exchange for the massive 50% Crit Rate which will make building Crit Ratio a lot easier, they gave her an Advance Forward instead of keeping her Transmigration Stare as an Extra Turn. Thereby causing her to lose a duration of a Buffs whenever she hit her peak

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

Advance Forward will be fine if she get 1 more turn of her enchanced state at E0 . So she will not miss the 1 turn buff ult from Bronya for example . It always 1 enchanced state left when Bronya ult meter is fully charged & it getting more worse when she fighting Aventurine .

[@Accountthatexists]

Should of made her like blade in which it dosent end her turn when she goes in enhanced state

[@Kindi001]

​@@Accountthatexists yea if its didnt count as turn like resurgence Selee that would be good

[@brycecai4700]

also her attack buff was 120% instead of 180%

[@reshmin0672]

Yeah I sometimes wish her entering her enhanced state was like Blade's where it will still be her turn instead of ending her turn and starting another one

[@wongo6828]

It's because there's no Ice Weakness. Aventurine being the boss in Stage 12 of MOC and first node of Apoc Shadow allowed Jingliu to come back into the spotlight, especially the Ice DMG buff from Apoc Shadow.

[@mystey1]

That Doombringer boss in apoc shadow had ice weakness yet my E0S1 Jingliu couldn't 3* him even though she had a great team and relics and all cuz one fkn part of the boss didn't have that fkn ice weakness so I just couldn't kill it (there is no wind unitts you can put with Jingliu and I didn't have any good fire ones too)

[@ahlemlora1452]

Isn't aventurine basically designed to counter Jingliu tho ? he saps energy, his dice make her waste her enhanced skills and, unless you have her E1, her single target damage makes you take forever to finish all his hp. Also that Apoc buff ain't do that much for her, just made her go from unusable in Apoc to usable, it ain't making her compete with break dpses nor follow-up ones in this rotation.

[@dante19890]

even if there is ice weakness she doesnt have a good synergistic team like the more modern DPS units.,

[@tayyabo]

Aventurine is one of the worst bosses for jinglu lol. She has the lowest average cycle in this MOC, yanqing is higher than her and she places lower than even argenti, blade, seele and jingyuan. But yeah in apoc she is good this time

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@mystey1 I had a E0S1 Jingliu with E0S1 Bronya, Pela and Luocha/Huohuo(don't remember who), and I got 1372, and with E0S1 Robin instead of Pela I got 1600+. You played wrong by attacking the mid constantly and then I assume the other hands recovered. You were supposed to either attack the right side directly, or hope your support got the elemental infusion that corresponded to that hand.

[@lnconstruct]

Grandma is getting too old

[@nk30020]

Good cuz I like em old

[@butterfly-f6c]

Isnt all xianzhou denizes are bunch of hags and oldies? Edit: ik blade and jingliu are exceptionally older for their body being stricken by mara but that doesn't rule of the rest of the cast.

[@nevergonnagiveyouupnevergo2795]

the drier the better

[@mhead1117]

Ur mom is old

[@mystey1]

almost every character in HSR does in like a year or less

[@Sorcerymon467]

I think Jingliu represented the end of HSR's early-game power creep. Like, while technically Lunae can do more damage than her she was *the* standard for Blast DPS, and to some degree still is. There's a reason we haven't really gotten a stock-standard blast dps. Firefly is a breaker, Yunli is a counter/followup attacker. Maybe this is just how I felt at the time bleeding through, but Jingliu felt pretty warping on the game. Suddenly it was like every enemy they introduced was weak to ice, everyone was discussing about whether or not Eruditon and Hunt characters were completely obsolete, and I am sure mhy took notice of the reception come 2.0. You can actually plot a similar trajectory with Seele, who was the gold standard when she dropped and now is considered kind of whatever despite not being a bad unit on her own, and certainly serviceable. There just simply isn't a lot of room for more of her. Like, there was simply nowhere else to go design wise without just making Jingliu 2. Yes, modern dps (especially super break teams) do ludicrous numbers, but that wasn't really vertical power creep, that was horizontal power creep. We needed entirely new mechanics and expansions of older mechanics to get to our current DoT/FuA/Super Break trifecta. I imagine we'll see a similar expansion and rotation of design focus as we get closer to whatever the hell the Summoning engine will look like. (Though mhy please please please invest more in freeze we're all sick of SU Remembrance being dead weight)

[@xxivkraegen2124]

Thing is those seele and jingliu banners were scaling with the story so there were abundance of quantum in belobog/space station and ice in xianzhou. Naturally it makes sense they will always make characters that fits the story's progression as well. I dont think we can blame any characters on power creep because you just need to wait on the next limited to be the same element as your previous limited dps for them to get useful again. This pattern is universal and will always be repeated by hoyo because all endgame modes will prioritize whalers and people that always pulls for every new character With rappa coming im sure Lunae will have a spotlight again plus the future 2.7 ice limited is a hunt character which will also provide jingliu some space again.

[@tonydarkness9831]

I remember when in the early days people would go for Rememberance to freeze enemies in world 4 or 5, but then comes the enemies with high Effect Res and it fell out of place

[@Gottaloveaxolotls]

We getting marastruck with this one

[@danielferrieri7434]

When I first started HSR, Jingliu’s first banner was out. I got Jingliu unintentionally and after that, she became my best and most Powerful Character I had on my account. When she got a rerun with Aventurine, I got her first eidolon, but that was also when my phone died and wasn’t able to port HSR to my other phone or tablet. So I guess my time with HSR started and ended with Jingliu.

[@ariamachi]

what do you even mean, you dont need your old phone to port the game over. you just need your login info. you can put the game on your other phone right now

[@Dee-Mellow]

You literally just sign in again????????? Bro what

[@chuchu2359]

@@Dee-Mellowfor real lmao dumbass story

[@novalytyxp]

​@@Dee-Mellow they're talking about storage???????????? Like the other reply already pointed out.

[@danielferrieri7434]

​@@ariamachi You were right. I was able to log back into my HSR Account

[@Otherface]

The more i think about it, the more i do believe we need an Hsr Furina. Will it improve Jinglu to the oblivion? Nope, but that small hp draining could still be useful. Heck, not only her, but also for Blade and the entirety of the Abundance class.

[@cofusiew5172]

Yeah, Genshin got snapped out of its "shields are superior" phase real fast once Furina released, and it would probably have the same effect here, perhaps even more since being staggered isn't a thing in HSR. Additionally, it would open up HP scalers as another niche for characters to explore.

[@reshmin0672]

​@@cofusiew5172 I remember looking at leaks for the 2.6 event lightcone and it amplifies HP and Crit DMG which is good for Blade so that's definitely a sign that we're eventually going to get more HP based DPS units like him in the future.

[@ethos728]

Blade could be better in the future, but just keep in mind that if they make an hsr furina, they will absolutely make an hsr neuvillette. Then blade will once again be irrelevant. It's just bound to happen

[@Otherface]

​@ethos728 and yet, there were many characters in Genshin who still got something from Furina who aren't Neuvillette. Noelle, Hu Tao, *fucking Aloy* , Etc. Even if Blade will still be relevant, at least now he would have a proper support for those Blade mains

[@ethos728]

@@Otherface It will be the exact same thing that happened to jing yuan and yet jing yuan is STILL irrelevant.

[@agentorder4604]

There’s a *small* problem I have with Jingliu, and it’s her pairing with Bronya. Comparing her to the likes of Seele and Bronya for a second. There is a difference in how their talents give them another turn. For Seele, her extra attack from killing an enemy gives her a special immediate second action, but this is NOT just action/turn advancement like Jingliu. Thus, Bronya’s buff is applied to her advanced forward attack AND her resurgence attack (and even her burst and possible second resurgence from that). So Seele can get 2 (to 4) Bronya skill buffs in one action. However, for Jingliu Bronya’s buff doesn’t work as efficiently. Let’s say Jingliu has one stack of syzygy and you turn advance with Bronya. Jingliu gets the ~70% damage boost for her normal skill. BUT, when Jingliu gets 2 stacks of syzygy she gets a 100% turn advancement to act again. This advancement counts as a different turn for Jingliu, so 1 turn buffs like Bronya’s skill wouldn’t buff her enhanced skill. TLDR; Jingliu’s unenhanced skill -> talent -> enhanced skill counts as two turns so Bronya’s skill buff wares off by the enhanced skill. Where as Seele can go skill/basic -> talent -> skill/basic and maintain all of Bronya’s buffs TLDR for the TLDR; If using Jingliu with Bronya, Jingliu’s first skill will NEVER have Bronya’s skill buff (unless Bronya is E6 but whatever). Making her best support lose some efficiency. I hope this made sense lmao, also I don’t have access to Jingliu and Bronya at the moment so I could be wrong, but I’ll edit this on Monday if this is false.

[@curryfishheadenjoyer]

ive tested this many times, its true. i honestly have no idea why hoyo decided not to make jinglius syzygy count as an extra action

[@electrickzy]

I just wish she had a better support man , there's no way a standard banner unit is her bis🫤

[@amandaslough125]

I don't know. I feel like a Hanya + Harmony support might prove more useful there since the buff goes away.

[@sleepy68]

If you have ult ready when syzygy procs you can still benefit from bronya's skill if you're fast enough and trigger the ult before the animation is finished, but after that the buff will go away regardless. Sad times.

[@thederp9309]

The problem with Jingliu is that she is like the Silver Wolf of dps characters. They both fit into the idea of a generalist unit but that’s why they both faded away. They don’t have mechanics that can played synergistically with other units, this isn’t the same case as Blade for example who has extreme self hp manipulation and healing which could allow for a specific team mate, sure she has her team depletion but that’s minuscule. She is straight up just missing anything, she only has hyper inflated self buffs and is a brute force unit unlike Break teams and FuA teams or DoT which have specific game play aspects with that specific gameplay style getting buffed. The only way Jingliu gets better is by releasing a broken support which will be better for another unit that acts more synergistically with that broken support anyways. She’s the prime example of dps having less future proof value because she was made without the future proofing of a mechanic. Mechanics are like a safety net for dps, the more of dps does with a kit then the more potential a new better niche support releases that upgrades that specific mechanic. She doesn’t have one. People are saying it’s because ice is neglected and they’re kind of missing the problem with Jingliu which it isn’t, they’re misdirecting the main issue which is her lack of actual gameplay mechanics and blaming it on ice being neglected which sure, is true in technicality. But element literally never matters in a lot of cases, you can usually brute force unless there is insane elemental res, but weakness type only matters for break units, the value of weakness types significantly falls off otherwise. If Jingliu had a FuA then the weakness wouldn’t matter because she has a synergistic team now, the stemming of all the problems is just her kit, I’ve played the game since release and noticed this about Jingliu which is why I skipped her… because I knew this was going to happen with her, she doesn’t actually DO anything. In a game that is ever evolving having a specific niche which may be currently on level with generalist characters with always be better in future because at least they have a niche that they improve WITH, the niche and the character grow alongside each other until they develop from a seedling to a tree. A generalist with no niche will eventually wither out in the long term because they don’t have the support of other characters pushing them up alongside them. People categorise teams based on how they play. For example we have DoT, FuA, Break, Hypercarry. But Hyper carry is a broad gameplay type. It’s more like gameplay mechanic team building begins as a choice between team damage and hyper carry, each unit has a team under these broader definitions. For example as a whole the FuA play style falls under the team damage side opposed to hyper carry, take Feixiao, she is a team damage unit speccing into the FuA play style because she relies on team attacks to get her stacks, Ratio is in the same ball park. Break is a weird in between, because there is hyper carry break and super break, I think super break in the team damage variant since HMC allows for the whole team to do super break damage and Firefly is attached to HMC meaning she is actually a team damage character opposed to hypercarry. But a break character that is a hypercarry as in they carry the team damage is Boothill, he is a sole unit that actually runs better with Bronya for the advance. Super break is the sub section of break that plays into the team damage type of playstyle. I actually think the Blade and Jingliu releasing together was actually meant to be a situation where Blade was playing into the hypercarry aspect of the playstyle by manipulating his own hp significantly whereas Jingliu did more team manipulation. But they completely gutted the hp manipulation mechanic by not releasing a necessary enabler. In this case the ho manipulation gameplay concept needed an enabler. There are two key enablers in the game, Kafka and HMC, imagine DoT or super break without those units. Without HMC super break can’t even exist yet it’s the reason why FF is even playable. Jingliu’s has an unused mechanic that is missing an actual enabler, the same with Blade, hp manipulation. Or they were designed to be played together meaning Blade wasn’t the hyper carry side of coin and Jingliu the team damage side of coin, but it was intended to be a DoT situation where both units were paired together. However the actual hp manipulation mechanic itself was missing an enabler to enhance that playstyle. It couldn’t have been just a coincidence that the main 2 hp manipulation limited 5* of the game were released a patch after each other, but Blade is the only character who benefits from it, Jingliu doesn’t. so she NEEDS that enabler to have a niche mechanic that she can ride with and gain the indirect buffs like Jing Yuan does with FuA and now even summons.

[@misora25chan]

I can't believe I read all of this and you made really good points. She is really stuck in a weird place where her mechanics just doesn't fit anything unless she gets a Harmony unit that actually enhances what she has and some.

[@Anika9691]

Not reading any of it sorry

[@thederp9309]

@@Anika9691 and that is okay. May you be blessed by our lord, Sunday. (However you shall read this) One day, after dinner, while my younger sister and I were lounging about in Mr. Gopher Wood's yard, we spotted a fledgling Charmony Dove all on its own. That baby bird was tiny, it didn't even have all of its feathers, and it couldn't sing. When we found it, it was already on its last breath, having fallen into a shrub - probably abandoned by its parents. We decided to build a nest for it right there and then. However, thinking back, that winter was unusually cold, with fierce winds at night in the yard, not to mention the many poisonous bugs and wild beasts in the vicinity... It was clear that if we left the fledgling in the yard, it stood no chance of surviving until spring. So, I suggested we take it inside, place it on the shelf by the window, and asked the adults to fashion a cage for it. We decided that when it regained its strength enough to spread its wings, we would release it back into the wild. The tragic part - something that we'd never considered - was that this bird's fate had already been determined long before this moment... Its destiny was determined by our momentary whim. Now, I pass the power of choice to you all. Faced with this situation, what choice would you make? Stick to the original plan, and build a nest with soft net where the Charmony Dove fell? Or build a cage for it, and feed it, giving it the utmost care from within the warmth of a home? I eagerly await your answer.

[@pynconegaming]

Even brax stopped putting 14 Jingliu's on every community post... it's so over

[@akdrzllol1698]

Jingliu is the reason I haven’t pulled for any of the new dps, haven’t felt the need to because she always gets the job done relatively easily.

[@ulrikruby]

7:37 Huo Huo is much better than Loucha for Jingliu. Gives both energy and attack buff. I don’t know the math, but I would expect Ruan Mei to be better than Pela.

[@vander1135]

running huohuo would eat up all the sp pela provide. To support a 134+ JL(-1 bronya) sp consumption you'll need a unit that do basic all the time and another that sp positive or 2 160+ speed unit that is sp positive. or ran ruan mei with 164+ speed bronya and 125 speed JL and have JL basic into skill so she can provide sp back while still runiing huohuo on sp neutral(generate no sp with skill basic rotation).

[@luuk7daan]

Also, his DHIL point is wrong. He says that he didn't have a single team that could supply him with the SP he needed. Well, he did, DHIL/TY/Pela/Luocha. TY is +1 sp over 3 turns (possibly more because she can be build fast so) and Pela & Luocha are completely SP positive, while also wanting AA gear (wind set for Pela and Multiplication for Luocha). These 3 plus DHIL scales should very much allow him to use his max skill every turn.

[@reshmin0672]

Imo Huohuo is better for her if you're running her as a hypercarry whereas Luocha is better if you're running her with Blade

[@ulrikruby]

@@luuk7daan That’s sounds correct. I got E2 Imbibitor Lunae on his first banner, which requires even more skill points than E0-1, so sometimes I had to just basic on him. But since I was close to being able to fully enhance basic every attack with E2, I imagine E0 could do it pretty easily on the right team.

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

​@@vander1135 or pull e1 but not that recommended i agree

[@ariamachi]

People dont use her because there is no ice weakness bosses aside from Aventurine which sucks because he ruins jingliu's enhanced state by wasting turns. If Ice weakness came back she would come back in the meta. She never fell off at all. 7:45 this is such a laughable argument. Saying none of these units work with Jingliu because shes in your words "self contained" and your take on her best team at the moment is just completely wrong. Robin works great, RM works great, Huo is bis and sparkle is alirght.

[@LoveRenamon1000]

in this way you spot who actually play the character, or have mastered it

[@CaramelMunchie]

Pretty much sums it up. Of course Jingliu is weak in comparison. Make a Stooges with 3 ice weak elites and a shared HP bar then call her weak... lol Vars is just reaching because it's a meme to trash talk Jingliu atm. Can't wait for people to chalk Jingliu still being strong to the new relic set she's getting.

[@SyrFlora]

She not self contained but with broken op harmony that we got... she just dont benefit much from them. Her multiplier not that high. Her self buff (att stat) make any outside att buff buff become diluted. But she still can still can clear content comfortably even when paired with cheap support and debuffer.. pela and bronya or tingyun

[@anagramhound]

She didn't fall off, she's just outclassed. The newer top dps kits are just way too overtuned to perform and sell better.

[@elijahjarobi]

​@@CaramelMunchiethe relic set ain't changing shit

[@danish2.012]

I meant hp mechanic is something that hsr hasn't deeply delve towards it. There are no hp buffers and the only hp scaling character in this game is blade unlike genshin which has a LOT of hp scaling characters. JIngliu can get her potential to shine in the future if there are units who benefit not quantitatively but just getting their hp reduced. Hp mechanics like jingliu teamwide hp drain and blade's constant hp changing can potentially get a buff if there are future units that will focus on the hp mechanism

[@noxlunesia]

Lynx provides a small amount of max HP and gives destruction/preservation characters more aggro. Blade player sleep on her bc they're lazy and just want auto heals :)

[@jadenkochan7424]

Fu Xuan and Lynx are also HP scaling

[@termina2737]

@@noxlunesiaproblem with Lynx/Blade is that they’re often paired with Bronya, and once you advance Blade with Bronya’s skill, Lynx’s HP buff (and aggro) expires.

[@danish2.012]

@@noxlunesia i meant dps hp scaling characters which only blade has it

[@dante19890]

if there is a hp zapping meta in the future than there will be new HP scaling dps that are 10 times better. So Jingliu will be irrelevant anyway.

[@27thelegends]

Next make a video about "What happened to Topaz" after this just because they both debuted in 1.4

[@AnimeWorld-kf5jm]

Bro. Topaz is top tier rn

[@27thelegends]

@@AnimeWorld-kf5jm well yes, but back in 1.4 she was considered a very bad character

[@dante19890]

Topaz has a top tier FUA team.

[@Defi4nc3s1]

@@27thelegends How she was consider bad, when she was the best to run with JY and Blade even solo hyper carry. I'm sure my memory is leaking but didn't Ratio was given during this time? Include that.

[@Wanderer-th4tt]

1. Instead of dmg% jl would rather benefit more from ice res down since bronya. 2. A unit similar to furina that buffs crit dmg/dmg%/dmg dealt could also buff both blade and jl and not buff firefly much since her dmg comes from breaks that can't be affected by these. 3. A unit that can cause dissociation (the superfreeze from SU) when allies deal ice dmg to marked enemies would immensely buff her. They could make it so that ice gives like 3 stacks while other elements give 1 to not make it super restrictive. This would also slightly buff herta in moc. Also, since dissociation deals dmg based on enemy's max hp, jl would have an easier time clearing bosses since she struggles more with those than mobs. 4. A hybrid between bronya and tingyun that sucks 2sp per skill would also benefit her a lot and most others not as much since she basically needs no sp at that point. Just raining some thoughts. Like they could very well make a good support for her that then benefits a future character, maybe someone like sapphire (he looks like he might be ice) and they probably just aren't focusing on her atm cuz they wanna flesh out the other archetypes first before getting to these 🤔. Genuinely don't think they'll stay off hypercarry buffers for that long.

[@saif-gv6gl]

The dissociation buff would probably be brought into the meta with 5 star March, it just makes sense. Shame that we need at least 5 patches before we could even hear leaks about that

[@febry7550]

this is why i dont want to vertical invest into 1 character the powercreep is so fast in this game, i wouldnt be surprise if the current top dps is going to considered mid in 6 month from now

[@theinbunch1380]

To be fair, Acheron released six months ago and is still considered the best ''traditional'' hypercarry, and will continue to get better due to her teams having a lot of room for improvement thanks to her unique ult mechanics

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

​​@@theinbunch1380 same with Feixiao . She is flexible in almost every team including Superbreak

[@Kindi001]

​​​@@theinbunch1380 i mean how to nerf Acheron is quite easy, just like firefly enemies that able to lock their weakness, make enemies that able to protect their ressistance debuff. or only when toughness bar get broken that able to get debuff. that is the weakness of Turn base game. the Dev can be an asshole that just make your team didnt work to sell their new unit.

[@theinbunch1380]

​@@Kindi001 True, but even if Hoyo makes ''undebuffable'' (sorry, there's no better word lol) enemies, it would be exactly like Firefly's case. as you say. Sure, some bosses are harder to break, but that doesn't stop Firefly from being one of the best hypercarries. The same logic could apply to undebuffable enemies. They will most likely have a window in which debuffs work normally, just like bosses that block the toughness bar temporarily. Not to mention how Crimson Knot stacks mechanically do not count as debuffs, so Acheron could still apply them by herself via action advance supports like Sparkle, Bronya or (coming soon) Sunday-

[@vander1135]

not really. she shines till acheron release so thats about 6 patch where she's on top and thats already pretty good. you just need to really thread lightly when it comes to dps and make sure to choose those who is the enabler of a playstyle like topaz and kafka who will always have their place in their respective comp. JL still have a lot of room to grow imo, imagine a support that can give extra turn and give buff that expire on her own turn so JL will always have said unit buff. she also does not yet have a dedicated dps set like newer dps so thats another room for her to grow stronger.

[@powwowken2760]

She didn't "fall off". HSR just went mad with power and gives every new DPS random weakness ignore, massive scaling, and disgusting damage bonuses to farm peoples wallets. Jingliu still functions fine, unlike Seele for example, the problem is that her kit just can't up with the recent nonsense.

[@pugachan9928]

its always like that, and now things got beefier, her dmg is just so little, and her downtimes makes it worse

[@Accountthatexists]

That is falloff........cause it's so hard for her to clear content cause they made hp SOOOO so high for the new units so they don't one shot

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

Thats the definition of fall off ......

[@Josh-qt5zi]

​@Accountthatexists this is what I like to call the Seele theorem

[@mockquia7479]

still use seele in pf nothing else, if you dont have jade

[@XieRH1988]

Pretty much every major DPS in 1.0 has already been powercrept by a DPS released in 2.0’s patches. If this pattern holds, Acheron, Firefly, Feixiao, etc will probably stay meta until the next generation of DPS arrives in 3.0.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

Waiting for Yanqing's limited version to see if that is a real Jingliu powercreep.

[@yafito2]

We probably forgot that Jingliu is a character focused on forced Crit skills. If only hoyo could release a character specifically designed to massively boost Crit skill damage. This wouldn't just benefit Jingliu but also characters like Seele, Welt, and others. Now that I think about it, most 'Crit Hyper Carry' characters deal the majority of their damage through their Skill> Enhanced Basic> Ultimate. We also lack a 5-star Harmony character that provides strong energy regeneration. So, I guess that's the main issue with 'Hyper Carry Crit DPSs' especially jingliu right now.

[@Kindi001]

No, wdym by designed masive boost Crit Skill? arent that Sparkle and Bronya is? also that not the reason why Jingliu fall off. Jingliu fall off because she cant keep her buff, Selee have her Resurgence that able to keep her buff after kill and enemies. but after you Advance forward jingliu with Sparkle or bronya what happen after jingliu move to her boosted state? the buff is gone. Daniel still work well in Imaginary weakness enemies. boothill also a Hyper carry Crit dps, also energy cost Jingliu is too high. what she need is something like thingyun but able to cut cost her ultimate energy.

[@yafito2]

​@@Kindi001I know the point about energy(I mentioned it in Para2) I am mostly talking about the video points 11:34 where he talked about how to buff Jingliu (HP sapping, freeze, ect) where he didn't mentioned Skill DMG boost and Energy. And when I was talking about buff "Crit skill" I was talking about some kind of buff that only exclusively help Traditional Crit based DPS and doesn't help break, follow up, or acheron team comp. (Improvements for older characters without helping newer characters) The buff I mentioned aren't Crit DMG or Action Advance buff like Sparkle and Bronya already provide. Examples: - x% Skill DMG res Pen - x% Skill DMG boost -x% Energy Regen for targets whenever they use their skill or killed an enemy - Regen x Flat amounts/ x% of Target's Energy These buff must be exceptionally higher than the 20%-ish buff that arena type buff gives because this is a more exclusive and niche kind of buff (probably x= 40% if we are being generous) And for the last points, Daniel has a match made in heaven, Sparkle. And cowboy bebop is an hybrid DPS. he's more of a Initial Break / Retrigger Break character rather than Crit or Super Break DPS.

[@Cr3zant]

@@yafito2 Bronya already gives plenty of damage boost, while yes it doesn't boost her first enhanced skill subsequent enhanced skills still show that JL maxes at like 200k ST with god tier relics and full res/def shred, and that's just not enough when enemies have 2+ million HP, (Hoolay has fucking 2.7 million)

[@Dino-2327]

​@@Cr3zant Bronya is a 1.0 5*... we need a proper limited 5* support and an artifact set for jingliu

[@mythlessrwf]

1:03 the casual callout 💀

[@Nopehehe869]

Got JL on her debut banner. Use her for every content still to this day. I got her signature and Ruan Mei with her sig. got her best team. She’s the only character that caught my attention and love her lore and playstyle

[@Haytchie]

I wonder what it would take to get Hoyoverse to put some sort of Simulated Universe Curio/Blessings equivalent to general combat, sort of like a minor relic/planar ornament or a "6th" relic. I imagine something akin to the Disassociation effect would be pretty cool to see on our Ice Units. Our more offensive oriented Ice units tend to attack after the enemy is frozen so a mechanic where we need to hit an enemy as many times as possible before Disassociation wears off to deal more damage could be a cool buff.

[@mistymarauder]

The fact that Jingliu “fell off” from being one of the most broken DPSes so quickly makes me worried about powercreep. Yes I know that powercreep, especially in this game is inevitable, but Hoyo is approaching it so quickly that it makes me worried for the future of this game

[@crimm7597]

acheron was what really made the powercreep very noticeable, all the endgame content after she came out has had enemies with way more HP, more tankier, but hey if you pulled for Raiden Expy then you can clear anything!

[@Waifu_Impact_Cunny_Archive]

​@@crimm7597 Acheron is strong & you can use her almost every endgame mode even you doesn't have her BIS .

[@fuumaruu7486]

Eh I'm still using her just fine, she's just really not viable because enemies haven't been weak to ice for the past few months, but when it did like the current Aventurine MoC and AS she destroys it no problem

[@watchwood]

The power creep is bad and real. Trying to stay ahead of it without dropping wads of cash is not easy.

[@shinidragon7775]

Jingliu didn't fall off because of powercreep she fell off because if a handful of other reasons chief of them being lack of support after release

[@TheSteve912]

We haven't had a limited Ice 5 star since Ruan Mei. AND THAT'S FROM 1.6! We're in 2.5 and 2.6 ALSO has ZERO new ice units. May 3.x patches bring Ice back from the dead.

[@csia4922]

while i do think the narrative of characters becoming more specialized over time leading to jingliu losing ground is very real and noteworthy, its also important to point out that in the duration of 2.0 to 2.5, the ONLY elite enemy that has been released with ice weakness is aventurine. not to mention the fact that unless your jingliu is crazy vertically invested, aventurine is essentially the perfect counterpick to jingliu. he stalls out her ST turns, drains her energy to even worsen the issue, and jinglius hp drain can prove fatal if supports cant win his dice roll. another factor is that apocalyptic shadow at its core doesnt like her very much, as she doesnt boast very high toughness damage. i would say the biggest factor that led to her "downfall" is simply the lack of threats for her to deal with. (also rm > pela but it isnt that big of a difference)

[@sageofsixpaths8392]

Jingliu: "i can still zero cycle👵". "Okay grandma🙄, time for bed"

[@fallen12889]

I literally just came back to HSR after playing in 1.X. I was so surprised at how little my Jingliu did to Adventurine. I was so stunned I thought I was doing something wrong with her. 😭

[@gepardzhongli]

Completely off-topic but they also murdered Silver Wolf. What's with characters now implanting weakness on enemies. That was supposed to be this hacker's niche. When she came out, I had the impression she would be HSR's Kazuha. Turns out she's a Candace or Xinyan.

[@monaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Because 53% DEF shred, 20% RES down for the implanted element, a universal 10% All-Type RES down, and easy debuffs on basic aren't useful for any characters at all. None. Especially characters not named Dr. Ratio (Summation and Deduction) or Acheron (Do not need to explain why debuffs are good for Acheron). Absolutely murdered character. Absolutely terrible. Should never use her.

[@gepardzhongli]

@@monaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa what are you on about? I'm just saying no other character should be able to implant weakness as part of their kit as that what makes Silver Wolf unique. If the enemy isn't weak to a specific element, then they should use characters of that Element. That way at least, old DPS like Blade, Jingliu, Danheng IL and many more can still see the light of day. And not Acheron or Firefly just bruteforcing everything because they ignore elemental weakness and implant Fire weakness respectively. Stop yapping.

[@gepardzhongli]

@@monaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and with the end game contents having multiple enemies in a wave, Pela is arguably better at shredding defense.

[@Cr3zant]

@@gepardzhongli So you just want every break character to be literally non-functioning unless you happened to roll Silver Wolf the two times she ran surrounded by more appealing units. Weakness implant is just the bare minimum for a break character to _exist_, it does not at all invalidate Silver Wolf's primary contribution of element res shred, something only she still universally has in her base kit. A break character with implant is still just functioning at a similar relative performance as any hypercarry would in the same situation because break still gets affected by the 20-60% res enemies have. Silver Wolf's problem isn't weakness implant as she was already considered worthless before 2.0, her problem is a lack of incentives to care about ST over multi-target.

[@richiegonzalez5679]

@@gepardzhongli The break characters NEED the Weakness Implant otherwise most of their damage potential is gone.

[@TwilightPrinceTV]

I started actually playing HSR when Jingliu released (been a fan of her VA for years), and it kinda sucks how I haven't really felt the need to use her after getting Firefly. Hoping that we get a support that makes me wanna use her again (also hoping for a Blade rerun to slap on that team)

[@Fr00stee]

there was that one trashcan buff that really helps jingliu out which may become a character soon

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

She's still solid, and I think there's room for a new team archetype around your team taking damage. I think a new berserker / revenge archetype built around team incoming damage can boost blade and firefly (and arlan I guess but idk), to benefit from moments of HP loss. New ice weakness implant nihility can also be fun.

[@oyfum2638]

When are we going to get “what happened to dot?” And “what happened to Dhil?”

[@inumitai5345]

The niche of HP fluctuation like the Destruction path has yet to be realized. Only DPS characters (like Counter attackers such as Clara and Yunli, and said HP fluctuations character such as Blade and Jingliu) have it currently. Maybe Aventurine but its Shield, but I hope Shield value fluctuations also count. It's like the Fontaine arc in Genshin, but with Hu Tao getting released years before Fontaine, but the difference is Hu Tao was the best DPS for quite a while than the HSR counterparts.

[@jpegwarrior5431]

"How Jingliu Fell Off" (she's still better than 95% of characters in the game and has Tier 1-level DPS while being extremely easy to run. she just isn't really a break character and thats what Hoyo is pushing.) She's also really easy to pair in dual DPS teams for weakness coverage due to her low SP usage, which works well with characters like Ruan Mei for support. I feel like a lot of players must only go for MoC12 0-cycles when they say "brute force attack just isn't a thing anymore".

[@rust5427]

Here's my take on a future character that could buff jingliu up: Ice Abundance Skill: Applies Rush buff on an ally for 3 stacks. (triggers when taking damage, can't select self) Applies Rush buff on all other allies except self for 2 stacks. Increases party's effect hit rate by 18% for 3 turn. (stackable up to 3) Ultimate: 80 ULT cost. Charges party's ULT gauge by (3 x Current SP points, maximum of 6)%. Deals 1 damage to all party members. Applies 2 stacks of Rush buff on all allies. Deals 1 damage to all party members. Talent: For every 1 SP the party gets 12% damage reduction, 12% defense increase, 8% attack increase, and 8% debuff resistance (max of 3). Recovers an ally's HP by 20% of own max HP when Rush buff is triggered. When Rush buff is triggered advances forward the ally by 20%, also removes 1 latest debuff on the ally. Traces: Trace 1: This character has an infinite stack of Rush. Additionally gain 1 SP point when you deal a basic attack. Trace 2: Additional 1 SP limit, for every 1 SP increases own energy regeneration by 3%. Trace 3: Increases an ally's CRIT damage by 18% every time the rush buff is triggered on them up to 10 stacks. (permanently) Increases an ally's CRIT rate by 2% every time the rush buff is triggered on them up to 10 stacks. (permanently)

[@haganetsume8173]

You know what? Imagine a character that can re-activate entire party's techniques in battle with their ultimate. That'll be bonkers!

[@uyeah1234]

Imagine that in su with ruan mei. Could literally insta kill every thing in a second and clear every su in a minute.

[@Defi4nc3s1]

@@uyeah1234 Well RM with FF technique already does insane in SU as its on every wave.

[@pulledporc5334]

I think the tough thing is that Acheron became the rule not the exception in terms of new dps power level, with Firefly, Boothill, Yunli, Feixiao (and likely Rappa) performing at around Acheron's level. Older dps still clear content but it definitely takes more work than it used to for them.

[@RangerofNE]

I fear Rappa is going to one shot bosses at this point. I think the smart thing to do now is patch these characters with supports and sub DPS that help them.

[@jasonbraza9517]

Her problem now is the lack of ice weak enemies on end contents.

[@paucalderon8326]

I hope that the last event is a way for Hoyoverse to say "Hey, we haven't forgotten about the ice queen, just wait". I loved Jingliu so much. She was the first character I maxed and used her on every team. Her and Blade, of course. But Hoyoverse completely forgot about them :(

[@koko-hh2bq]

I don't think she became too weak. Everything else just became too strong

[@foggyfrog]

It's the same thing, considering it's a gacha game where they also inflate enemies hp each time.

[@Lol-Lol0]

One way to buff jingliu is to create a support character like furina which buff ally when ally HP goes down or up. Since jingliu can drain 3 allies HP at once

[@moodiiperson7474]

JL is still amaaazing at what she does. It's just when you have DPS like Firefly/Acheron/Feixiao who can casually nuke 500k+ in one turn & ignore/implant weaknesses, she seems 'mid' even though she's not.

[@sassomichela9092]

What I will say about Jingliu stands for Jing Yuan, DHIL, Blade and Bailu: being a HCQ enthusiast, I wanted all of them. With Jing Yuan and Bailu I was lucky: Bailu was my first 5* (she hard carried me in the early game) and I pulled Jing Yuan in his first run because he looked cool. Then, I started getting passionate about HCQ lore, and so I decided to get them ALL. Now I do have them, and while I know they are not the best of the best, I will jump on any occasion to use them. I still very much use Jing Yuan in PF, I have DHIL e2s1 and he still carries my su runs, and I try to use Jingliu and Blade in the same team whenever I can because it makes me cry. Bailu will be forever my sweet little baby, and I try to use her as much as I can. So what I'm trying to say is: yes, I know Jingliu is not mega op or part of giga-meta teams, but she's still usable, and as long as the moc rotation allows it I'll always try to use her, because I love the lore between her and the other four members of the quintet (yeah Bailu isn't part of the quintet per se but who knows the story knows what I'm talking about) and that is part of the enjoyment I get from using a character in hsr.

[@highwaytoheaven99]

All of this to say: she got powercrept HARD.

[@AkumaItachi]

That's Vars video for you lol

[@lathamtk]

I use her in tandem with Bladie. She chips his health, Dual Core is still somewhat viable, SP-positive, needs Luocha and 1 buffer.

[@Lynemn]

Jingliu actually has some synergy with Blade, to the point where I don't understand why no one pairs them together with Ruan Mei or Robin. The fact that she drains the HP of other allies with her skill causes Blade's follow up attack to trigger twice as quickly, which is exactly what he wants. As for why she's fallen off... it's a combination of Firefly being outright broken, and a lack of ice weakness enemies. She is still the best damage dealer against ice weak enemies that aren't specifically designed to counter her the way Aventurine is.

[@Nothing_Else3006]

And even if there's ice weak enemies, people can still use acheron or firefly, sadly.

[@Cr3zant]

Because both Blade and Jingliu have objectively worse performances when paired together than when either is hyperbuffed. Jingliu loses so much damage taking Blade over any of Bronya/RuanMei/Huohuo it's insane, because Blade's follow up just isn't worthwhile at all.

[@sphong0610]

If the rumors are true and we get a 5*Herta with ice element, I hope her followup attack is based on freeze so Jingliu + Gerald/Pela/Ruan Mei can be the ultimate ice team. I'd honestly want to see more done with elements and possibly break effect. Would also be cool if the new Herta actually added ice weakness on enemies like Firefly does.

[@PoisonPawn]

Braxophone is going to hunt yo ass! Better get ready LMAO

[@Mahmoud2009-v4p]

Damn dat would be interesting to see 🧐

[@geloXIII]

That's why today's sponsor is Express VPN, so that he can't be found.

[@SmithyPL]

Who cares what whales have to say about him? Let Brax buy more characters and shut up

[@Mahmoud2009-v4p]

@@SmithyPL woah calm down 😅 it just a joke

[@xenoemblem7]

​@@Mahmoud2009-v4pJokes are suppose to be funny

[@Mysteltaint]

In order to buff Seele and JingLiu, you gonna need a relic/planar set that provides energy regen and damage buff when the character acts again. Much like the Hunt blessings in the simulated universe.

[@dante19890]

a relic set wont do much for them

[@hizy-_-10]

Jingliu was my absolute favourite character and I wanted her so much but now I love her design but I don't want or need her anymore with characters like Acheron and feixiao

[@redlox2]

Tbh I don’t really have any ice characters that are DPS (I still use Herta) but with characters like firefly who give Fire weakness Jingliu isn’t really someone I need either.

[@KarpJeff]

Her problem is that she had too many buffs in her own kit making her not work well with any support that doesn't only supply Dmg% (hence why she works with bronya so well). Other characters like DHIL profit from characters like Sparkle releasing where as Jingliu will only get buffed if a Bronya who gives even more dmg% were to release. Most characters will continue to get strlnger if there from the old roster, slowly receiving buffs from other characters whereas Jingliu is unlikely to get the same luck.

[@dante19890]

She doesnt really work well with Bronya since bronyas buff gets cancled out by her own action advance.

[@Spawnamvs]

Just throwing this out here since I thought of it so let me know if its trash because I have no clue how this goes Support: Harmomy, Freeze Skill: Marks all allies with Frostbound for 2 turns. When an ally with Frostbound state loses HP through any source, they are granted 4 energy and a stacking 20% of users atk (200% max) Ultimate: Drains 10% of all allies HP, while providing 10 energy and 15% def ignore for 2 Turns Talent: When an enemy is frozen, all allies marked by Frostbound gain 10 energy and a 10% spd increase A1: Allies marked with Frostbound have their speed increased by 5% A2: Frozen enemies recieve 20% more ice damage A3: Allies who fall below 50% HP recieve 10 energy Thats all I got for a support that could synergize with Jingliu

[@veinaul6824]

Jingliu suffers from Eula syndrom she still hit like a truck its just new content is not for her and new characters dont help her

[@camil3545]

was kinda getting that vibe as well.

[@АлиДжураев-у1х]

She's really not hitting like a truck

[@andreagostinho4076]

1:38 Portugal mentioned, less goooo! I love you Vars ❤🇵🇹

[@surfinraichu461]

The Braxophone mention @ 1:00. LMAOO

[@bromegaman5962]

I think the main buff Jingliu could use is a Furina type support that wants the teams hp to change, then buffs the team in various ways. This could make the teams of Jingliu, Blade or whoever drains hp to actually be good if the support is strong enough. The other would be a support character who wants to use the SP themselves to buff the team or a character. So similar to DHIL with his skill which you can use up to 3 times, this support would be able to use their skill up to 3 times. Each time stacking a different buff, which could be something like level 1: Damage% buff, level 2: Energy buff, level 3: Advance forward between 50-100%. Their ultimate could just be whatever buff + their next skill is level 3 for free. Not exactly the most unique kit, but it would benefit characters who don't use a ton of SP like Jingliu, Blade, Arlan and maybe even Boothill.

[@Defi4nc3s1]

Or if they design a set that use hp drain but gives bonuses like ignore def, like how every new type has one - Dot has, Break has. The only "def ignore" is by her Signiture and Quantum set, which is not her original to begin with.

[@KittyNatiquinha]

12:06 Furina that's the wrong game 💀💀

[@elitovon2833]

I’ve never thought that I’d never say that a character from a completely different type of game is required for another character in this game to succeed(Blade and Furina)

[@Destiny87]

My Jingliu has the best relics of all my dps so she still gets lots of use.

[@misora25chan]

Another issue is that hyper carry is janky right now compared to the ease of use of SB and FUA.

[@syidibuzzbuzz962]

Next video will be the decline of Sparkle. 100%

[@wongo6828]

@@syidibuzzbuzz962 I honestly have to agree to this. Out of the holy trinity of Harmony, Sparkle has seen the least usefulness out of Ruan Mei and Robin. She's a hypercarry support but the hypercarry archetype has fizzled out in favor of FuA and Break archetypes. The only hypercarries that are still relevant are Acheron and Yunli. Her niche is buffing an ally based on how much they use their skill and so far, only DHIL, Qingque and Seele can use her buffs optimally (Jing Yuan I guess counts). DHIL is held back by being an old DPS who can't compete with Acheron, Qingque and Seele alongside Mono Quantum which is the team she can be used optimally hasn't seen any relevance. Bronya on the other hand, who was powercrept by Sparkle has ironically seen more use than her in the Break meta, specifically one of Boothill's ideal support because she can 100% turn advance instead of 50% like Sparkle. Sparkle can be used with Acheron if you get her E2 but most players are not vertical investors. Overall, Sparkle is slowly losing her value as a support who can't support a dying archetype.

[@introvertion6460]

​@@wongo6828Hopefully she gains a new usage when other sp related characters come out

[@Supreme_Bargainer]

​​@@wongo6828bruh powercreep in hsr is wild 💀 meanwhile genshin is still going strong with even 1.0 characters like kazuha, zhongli,xiao,hu tao and other top 5 four stars

[@infernal_fox]

@@introvertion6460or even when new quantum dps come out that is NOT seele

[@Mew2222]

​@@Supreme_Bargainer This is why I have steped out of the HSR train recently. The powercreep is simply to much for me to bear. Next time we will really see titles like: "Why no one plays Sparkle anymore" (like OP sugested) or "Why no one plays Acheron anymore". Meanwhile in Genshin Impact, I totaly trashed the Abyss not long ago with Raiden Shogun, Yelan, Jean and Furina on one side and Keqing, Fischl, Zhongli and Nahida on the other side. I was so baffled, some of those characters are ver. 1.0 and no way a meta lineup. The diference in powercreep is insane.

[@dante19890]

outdated like a lot of the 1.X dpses. It was before Hoyo shifted into the teamcomp package angle.

[@LegendsOfSushi]

The moment ice weakness comes back is when Jingliu comes back. But for now, she's benched, because she's not capable of brute forcing like Acheron or Firefly.

[@LizardKingRequiem]

Shes still the strongest ice unit, problem is that hoyo has been neglecting ice since we got her. Literally all weve got since is misha, a weaker destruction.

[@punstartracer]

Not gonna lie, although "powercreep" is the word of the day, I think that doesn't really cover the whole story of how HSR teams are built. Quirks and seasonal bonuses asks for a lot more than just "Will I marry this character to my team" and just making it about right here-right now units and bonuses really misses the narrative. When Firefly launched a lot of people called her game breaking because the new divergent universe had a setup that spelled out "Win for free if you have Firefly" - Now people call her mid and Supp carried. Dan Heng IL with the new Simulated Division: The Swarm that spelled out "Win for free if you have Dan Heng IL" - Same thing repeats. This can go on for DoT and Erudition when Pure Fiction launched with Black Swan, and Gold and Gears launched with Argenti, they are both called high pull investments to chase that same glory. Every character debuts being the best for a while, and if we are constantly comparing numbers from now and then instead of realising the similarities and playing smarter obviously every character that came before will seem weak. You make points like "This teammate could help Jingliu but there's just a better unit for it" but that unit could do nothing for the seasonal content, or that "this character had new characters incorporate into their niche" and while it's true Jingliu just has a very specific gameplay that no other character has buffed because HP mechanics are forgotten as hell, it's not something like Dr. Ratio/Moze capitalising from Acheron buffs due to constant debuff application being added, or Himeko/Boohill benefitting from Firefly buffs thanks to more Fire/Break Effect mechanics, she's a crit DPS with turn advance and a very sensible SP consumption, she can fit in so many of these niches and is still a worthwile unit.

[@aldyzero6676]

Welcome to "Honkai" games where extreme powercreep happens occasionally

[@botondnyitrai3128]

I mean, they can still add a support that focuses on buffing the skill damage. That is something we are yet to have, and it is also possible to design more character with damage focused on using their skills.

[@sniperfox8806]

hsr has absurd power creep, only so much old units can do with new units being so much stronger, it's why I dropped hsr in the first place, if they slowed their powercreep by a fair margine, it'd make the whole of it so much more fun

[@lokrj]

Then we have Genshin, which is the total opposite

[@omikamiz568]

Dream Support for Jing Liu in my opinion. 1. Long duration buff that persist through multiple turn(Ting Yun, Robin , RM) Preferable focus on buffing bonus dmg because Jingliu lacking those type of bonus. 2. Ability to grant her "Double Turn", This maybe similar to Turn advance support but the different is ti won't speed up her turn, it just allow her to move again immediately after she attack(basically double her turn). 3. Energy boost so JL can ult more, and so keep her in buff state more.(Optional) SO maybe character that buff her for some turn and then remove him/herself from the turn order . In exchange allow the target of their buff to move twice back to back, also grant them dmg boost until the end of the buff duration(probably last 2-3 turn).

[@Kobayashii45]

she doesn't even have dedicated relic sets...

[@Defi4nc3s1]

Ye imagine ignore def set with the hp drain mechanic. Insane.

[@Rexy2552]

An interesting thing would be an ice support unit who helps freeze and increases dmg to frozen units or something but this would probably be a nihility, which instantly runs into the issue of … acheron. The only thing else would be some kind of team that functions like that new planar set where 3 units can buff the “first in the lineup” or maybe kind of like how blade and fu xuan’s e6 want team wide hp loss maybe a support that takes teamwide hp loss and gives a big buff because i think the most interesting and closest thing to a niche that she has is fu xuan, jingliu, blade, and ruan mei and to replace ruan mei in this team with someone who accumulates lost hp and does something with it would be pretty cool

[@sonofdeleniel007]

She's a DPS. DPS units are only as good as their numbers, and as soon as someone comes out with a bigger baseline the previous frontrunner gets f*cked.

[@Josh-qt5zi]

I got two type of theorem for main dps the Arlan theorem for 4 star dps that can't complete against the 5 star dps one and the Seele theorem where they were top tier dps but fall off thanks to powercreep

[@saif-gv6gl]

thank god I decided to e6 Firefly, she'll be relevant till the day hoyo decides to put an enemy with AS boss weakness bar in MoC or a 1st turn break immune boss like that damn trotter

[@DobinSergei]

​@@Josh-qt5zi but tier lists are showing different, isn't it? 🤔 Some new 5* are lower tiers than older 4*. Is not about rough numbers, but suitability of their mechanics to current content. Arlan is an exception, as he just have unconventional and uncomfortable kit.

[@spoons2275]

Theoretically could you add jade blade and Jingliu to a single team and make blade go crazy?

[@Hououin818]

It's because she doesn't have a dedicated sp and dedicated set (yet), Bronya buffs work for only 1/2 of her enhanced skill and 2 if you have ult, Pela doesn't work that well because she doesn't have a permanent up time on her ult and Nihility characters are always worse than Harmony by a wide margin. Ice set on her is bad due to cd saturation and quantum set is only good if you're fighting qua weak enemies. Although i trust that Sunday release will boost her alot if the leaks are true

[@Hououin818]

Honestly it feels like Genshin again where Hoyo is just neglecting hyper carry while developing characters with unique mechanic instead

[@luuk7daan]

@@Hououin818 TBF, they're also neglecting DoT. They are just really set on forcing FUA, Break and Acheron down our throats. And I'm expecting 3.X to introduce a new gimmick to center a playstyle around, which will get the majority of the focus.

[@sHaDiCaL06]

I thought you meant what ACTUALLY happened to Jingliu because I'm also curious what happened but this is just a "less player use this character" video so still thanks for letting me know about this👍

[@Inkfy]

I argue Jing Liu is still a pretty good unit. The issue is that the bar has been raised by other DPS units like she once did. Early MoC levels had Ice/Imaginary Weaknesses from the get-go for several months until Penacony. That and endgame content was only MoC at the time. Meaning she was obviously going to dominate in that retrospect. However what truly didn't help was that Hoyo started giving new DPS units stuff like Def Ignore, Res. Pen, etc. either with their base kit or E1 with their best supports. Units like Firefly/Acheron are just easier to oonga-boonga than Jing Liu who has that ramp up. It doesn't mean Jing Liu does poorly, but that she has way less to work with and has to rely more on supports to get the most out of her. Units like Feixiao show what happens when people want DPS units to have little to no restrictions. They can become absurdly powerful. Imagine if Jing Liu only needed two attacks to go into Sicko mode. That's how new DPS units are made now.

[@superGianism]

She was my first topnotch dps if I may say. Got her e0s1 during her 1st banner and I didn't felt the need for another dps up until we has Acheron's banner. My go to team before consists of Jingliu Blade HuoHuo and Tingyun with DDD.

[@Kim_Imyoung]

I don't even know how I survived early HSR without Jingliu cause everything were literally tailored for her.

[@DXaltation]

To put it short, her enhanced form duration is locked with the (2-3) instances of enhanced skill, that also takes you 2 wet noodle dmg turns to get back into in which in a turn based game is a loss. However, they were able to fix it with how Firefly's Ult works which can be maximized by SPD.

[@X3non460]

The way a good week ago i was thinking "imagine if vash does a vid about the fall off of jingliu" my intuition is insane😭

[@Tarantulawl]

As a newer player, my answer to most of these types of videos is, "they haven't been rerun lately."

[@iamwayne6138]

Basically, she has little scale and too many self buff while her bis team is hypercarry, which also provide her a lot of buffs. So to shine again, she just need a dedicated multiplier buffer

[@madrain9898]

Only character I regretted pulling for, I honestly can't remember the last time I used her...

[@Platinumsnake2024]

I beat the endgame using her easily like almost since her release

[@lokrj]

I assume you pulled her on her rerun because she blazed through all contents pre-2.0 like nobody's business... but then Acheron happened 💀💀💀

[@sanjeethmahendrakar]

They need to make a support that enables the use of the dissociation from the remembrance path. That would help basically all Ice characters and as of right now they are struggling.

[@toofu5044]

4 words: Enemies with more HP

[@Defi4nc3s1]

Two more words. Weakness type.

[@infernal_fox]

Actually I would argue Jongliu’s best team is herself, e1-2s1 bronya, e0-1 huohuo, and tingyun. Its all about regenerating her ult as fast as possible to keep her state as long as possible, and if you get lucky woth bronya procs or have e1 huohuo, you make juuust enough sp to be able to continously spam skills.

[@woahwoah6105]

Power creep lol

[@luiss428]

i agree. the idea of a "theoretical ceiling" means there will always be room for improvement in the future. meanwhile jingliu has reached her peak (the appeal being that its easy to reach this peak)

[@ulrikruby]

9:11 Ratio absolutely did not get buffed by Jade (unless she is C1), and was made obsolete thanks to Feixiao. Being powercrept is not the same as being buffed. March and Feixiao also don’t work with Jade (unless she is C1), so this doesn’t really make sense.

[@wongo6828]

Ratio is not obsolete, what are you talking about? Ratio got a new FuA support through Moze because he can inflict 2 debuffs on the enemy, more than Topaz and that debuff will increase FuA attacks and Crit DMG if you got his E2. Topaz will now be paired with Feixiao while Ratio will be paired with Moze and I would say Moze is better for Ratio than Topaz because he can inflict more than one debuff. Also, if you have both Feixiao and Ratio like I am, I can use the Feixiao + FuA team on Wind weak enemies while Ratio + FuA team on Imaginary weak enemies. He got powercrept, yes, but obsolete, no, he's still a top tier DPS.

[@soloxd8396]

i actually did jade (e0) and ratio (e0) and got a 3 cycle, so i wont say its that bad. I wont say that's a buff but I will say they do work together.

[@ulrikruby]

@@wongo6828 Totally forgot Moze exists and works well with Ratio. I probably shouldn’t have used the word obsolete, since he can of course still be used and is very good. It’s just because Feixiao is so much better than him, that I didn’t think he would still be used when Feixiao took his supports (Topaz and Robin). Who do you use in place of Robin on his team now? Sparkle, Ruan Mei or someone else? Thanks for the informative comment (I will probably build Moze for my Ratio team on my second account now).

[@Misuzuu975]

Ratio still has some things going on for him that can make him keep up with meta no matter the powercreep, his support choices is quite flexible (yes need debuffs) but he can use anyone that applies debuffs while you cannot slot a nihility in a feixiao team unless they do an absurd amount of fua. She did not completely take all his supports as he can still use pela + tingyun, his 0 cycle team before Robin came out was huohuo + rm + Pela. Not everyone pulled feixiao but, I have both and use both. He is one of the V1 dpses that has been able to keep up with current units and I believe he will continue to be buffed as long as they continue releasing debuffing supports it doesn't matter nihility or not. He never needed premium fua team to be good.

[@Misuzuu975]

​@@ulrikrubywithout Robin and if Ratio has his signature, you should just go pela + tingyun. You can use moze if you slot in Gallagher or e0s1 aventurine since he only applies two debuffs and you shouldn't rely on the debuff from Ratio's technique + skill unless you are going for 0 cycle.

[@amosrien]

I have her e0 s2 and she was a major help bc she shreds everything(not as good as others but still)

[@pugachan9928]

any dps with a downtime easily die in such a turbulent meta

[@user-fc7st1nu9m]

With characters like Robin and Aventurine as well as the new relic set literally being perfect for Yanqing, it's minda funny how everyone made fun of Yanqing and called Jingliu his better, but now Yanqing seems to be indirectly getting buffed each patch while Jingliu is stuck in a meta that's no longer meta I always considered Yanqing a unique character in the sense that he self buffs, has a personal followup attack (even if its rng) and can freeze enemies (not a lot of ice characters can do that without breaking) not to mention his eidolons make him deal more dmg vs frozen enemies. Literally the pioneer set is perfect on him and this is why I tell everyone my Yanqing does more dmg than my Jingliu. More modern supports and relics/ornaments are whats making him do so much. Atp, the only thing that Jingliu has over Yanqing is that 1) she has aoe and 2) she's pretty low investment. I however have no doubt Herta will be the new Yanqing killer tho.

[@dragonballMS]

24 seconds and no views. Bro fell off