the DEEPER dilemma in Fight Club | therapist explains

[@mylittlethoughttree]

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[@NuanceOverDogma]

Fight Club is about how the narrator can get a girl he likes and not let himself feel that he's too good and done with the girl he originally wanted. Everything in the movie just played out in his head.

[@johnathan7258]

27th​@@NuanceOverDogma

[@TheOneTrueDaedelus]

Something that pops up a lot in online discussions about people who are frustrated that some aspect of their personal dreams or romantic pursuits or professional ambition didn't pan out the way they wanted is the statement "You aren't owed (thing you hoped for)," followed by a tirade against the sense of entitlement that that frustration implies. The sentiment behind that chastisement is understandable, but often it seems misplaced. These moments often come up when someone is lamenting the absence of something that they traditionally expect (or are expected) to acquire or accomplish. The response is often a clarification that those expectations were based on some outdated or even oppressive aspect of the tradition they were raised in, and that the person who is sad about their missed opportunity is morally deficient for even being sad about it. Working against the societal aspects that we find ethically problematic is all well and good; we should be doing that, but we also all live in a world that is the product of those aspects, and when someone is feeling like a failure because they didn't meet the standards they were prescribed, "Actually you're terrible for feeling like you should have reached those goals in the first place" is brutally invalidating. We are all human beings who are navigating a constant series of societal transitions, and at least on the Internet, we seem more intent on crowing over the ashes of what fell than guiding each other collectively into whatever we're trying to build. Fight Club is set in the 90s, and focused mostly on the masculine side of this phenomenon, but the unhealthy worldview it portrays is timeless, universal. If people aren't given grace, understanding, and avenues to find wholeness and purpose in the new world, then they'll do anything they can to live in the graveyard of the old one. And worse, they may, in their rage and loneliness, try to tear down the future in the hope that they can resurrect the past. That's my thought, anyway. Great video, as always!

[@mylittlethoughttree]

There's something wonderfully poetic about that line: "if people aren't given grace, understanding, and avenues to find wholeness and purpose in the new world, then they'll do anything they can to live in the graveyard of the old one" I love that!

[@duffman18]

Yeah that's a beautifully written and very accurate line. Are you a writer? If not, you should be.

[@charlesp.8555]

I think it's the point, it's very easy to use true statements to abuse people when they are in a bad place while looking like you are helping them.

[@CharlesVanNoland]

"...morally deficient for even being sad about it..." It's OK to be sad about it, but wallowing is self-defeating. "...you're terrible for feeling like you should have reached those goals..." At the end of the day, some people are going to be more resilient than others - if only because of how they were raised and what they were exposed to that molded them into who they are. Being an obedient cog in a great machine is not what happy people do, unless they're lucky enough for everything to go exactly right (which most aren't) and/or they have enough tonic dopamine to handle whatever adversity and tribulations that arise along their path into their future. Accepting a path laid out before you is antithetical to being a leader, or even just being free at all. People who just take the path set before them as a grind that holds the promise of contentment at the end will forever be grinding away and never actually reach contentment. If they do reach retirement, as planned, they won't be content, they will already be forced to accept that they never did anything that actually made their life feel worthwhile, and will only be merely resigning to coasting into their grave now that all is said and done. You have to exhibit some measure of autonomy, some semblance of selfness, and will something different and fulfilling from your own existence. A planned trajectory through life does not take each person's uniqueness into account. Nobody should be striving for the mundane pre-planned cookie-cutter life, because that's not life. Everyone should be leaving their mark, otherwise what's the point? They'll be much less likely to suffer the disappointment of being a failure if they follow their heart instead of what they've been told to do. People crow over the ashes of failure because they themselves are afraid to build anything at all. That's the trend I've been witnessing over my life. Where are all the Elon Musks and Steve Jobs? You don't do great world-changing things by doing what you're told by someone else. Now everyone wants to make video games, when they missed the boat by over a decade. I do believe that an entire generation has been hoodwinked, and will be sacrificed in a great civil war, because they were never taught to make something, and do something, they were just told what to do. College is a big fat rip off now. The Silicon Valley lifestyle is overcrowded, and not like everyone thinks it is - which is only how it was 20 years ago. People have been deluded into thinking that they can make a living sitting on a computer, instead of working with their hands and bodies - and it especially seems to be the case with kids who grew up in cities. They have been sheltered from the facts of sustaining their own existence. Food and water are things that just happen if they can pay for it, and they can pay for it with a desk job. Meanwhile the other ~70% of humanity has to farm/hunt their food. This generation has become so disconnected from the reality of what it takes to sustain their own existence that they're going to be at a total loss whenever times get tough, like they are right now. That's no one individual's fault. They can either accept that they were screwed over and adapt to go on and do great things - like the many 3rd worlders who come to the 1st world to become successful when coming from nothing at all - or they can implode and take down as many innocent people with them as possible and be forgotten like all of the mass shootings that happen every year. The US borders have been opened up to everyone and anyone to combat an entire generation that's imploding because it's not capable of producing anything of value without an employer to hold their hand, living at their parents, expecting cush desk jobs because they can't handle the thought of doing plumbing, electrical, construction, etc... If there is one or more specific individuals they should blame for their predicament it would be their own parents for sheltering them to be so spineless and entitled - while people come to the USA from all over with nothing and build themselves up to be something. The phrase "spoiled rotten" comes to mind. If these people can come to the first-world and make something happen, kids born and raised in the first-world have no excuse. No matter what may come it will be the resilient and robust that live on to write history, and definitely not the wannabe-revolutionary ANTIFA types that were too whipped by their parents to take control of their own lives, who now take out their frustration on their local communities. I can't believe the arrest videos I saw, these young adults throwing literal temper tantrums because they were being arrested for breaking long-established laws. Clearly they are children trapped in adult bodies that have never faced any kind of hardship whatsoever. Did their parents ever even have them do chores? To my mind, parenting is how we get to what we're trying to build, where parenting entails setting boundaries, establishing responsibilities, and creating a sense of self-discipline. Tomorrow's leaders are today's kids. Or, tomorrow's lost, lonely, confused, addicted, homeless, etcetera are today's kids. Society should be focusing on the future by focusing on the kids. Anyway, that's my 2AM rant for the night. Thanks for sharing your comment.

[@BTKYG]

This was well worth reading, glad I stumbled upon your perspective.

[@trinaq]

"The things you own end up owning you." A poignant quote which has stayed with me since I watched it for my film studies class.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

It is a good quote. To be fair to him, he does have some good quotes

[@CosmicPhilosopher]

@@mylittlethoughttree That's one of the fascinating things about this film. Tyler Durden is on to something. He does have legitimate, valid critiques of our modern society. The problem is that he goes so far in rejecting it, he becomes the very thing he railed against.

[@duffman18]

​@@CosmicPhilosopher yeah that's the thing. He identifies real problems with being a man in the modern world. It's just that his solution is exactly the complete wrong way to go about it. What the narrator (some people call him Jack) does at the beginning of the story is the real solution, the healthy solution, healthy masculinity. Whereas Tyler is toxic masculinity, the exact opposite. That's why teenage boys, who believe in performative masculinity more than why other demographic, find Tyler so alluring. He's SUPPOSED to he alluring. But also it's made so clear in the story that it's a complete mistake to follow him. Jack does the heathly thing at first, and it works wonders for him. He can sleep every night for the first time in his adult life instead of having chronic insomnia. He is healthier both mentally and physically than he's ever been, and Tyler is furthest away from existing at this point. He's happy, he's content in his masculinity. But when Martha comes into the story he feels emasculated again and so turns to the other option, he turns to toxic violent masculinity and becomes Tyler more and more until eventually he's more Tyler than he is Jack. I said it in another comment but it's no coincidence that Fight Club was written by a gay man, when gay men for all of recent history have been in this internal and external war, with the external being straight men who view gay men as being unmasculine, and the internal reaction to that of many of us gay men feeling the need to "prove" their masculinity to straight men by turning hypermasculine as a result, overcompensating. The gay community has taken decades to work out that we don't need to perform masculinity for the sake of straight men. And straight men have gradually worked out that it's OK to behave more like gay men in terms of being more willing to talk about your feelings and express masculinity in a healthy way. Each community has learned from each other. Especially back in Chuck Palahniuk's day when he was writing the book in the 90s, and going through the 80s as a gay adult man in his 20s with everything going on with the AIDS crisis and so on. It's a really common thing, at least for millenial men who are generally far more into healthy masculinity than any other generation of men since, I guess, ancient Greeks and Romans lol (I mean I'm saying that tongue in cheek because the Greeks and Romans had plenty of unhealthy masculinity too, but you know what I mean), where we watched it as young teen boys and the whole themes of the story completely went over our heads and we just thought Tyler was cool and fight clubs were cool. But then we watch it again in our 30s and understand the story for the first time and realise that it's not a story about fight clubs, or about a man with dissociative identity disorder, but it's about feeling emasculated by the modern world and the two directions, the two roads you can go down from there, to healthy masculinity or to toxic masculinity. The book and film are a criticism of men like Tyler and the Project Mayhem cult members, not an endorsement. Gen Z and Gen Alpha boys are worryingly seeming to go backwards, with there love of characters like Tyler, like Patrick Bateman, and real people like Andrew Tate. However I hope this is just a phase for them, like Fight Club was for us millenial men, and that eventually they'll grow up and understand how damaging that whole philosophy is to men ourselves. The victims of toxic masculinity, are men, and it's why we have a male suicide epidemic. Human brains don't finish developing until around age 25. Which does seem to match up with how boys and men see Fight Club completely differently when they watched it as teens and then watched it again once they were older than 25. I hope that young teen boys of today will look back and cringe at how much they loved Andrew Tate. If millenial men can do it, so can they. Fingers crossed anyway.

[@TheOneTrueDaedelus]

​@@duffman18This really speaks to the way that bigotry, or externalized hatred of particular demographics, is self-harming in addition to whatever damage is done to the intended target. We look at a group, we decide that they're a problem, and we stereotype them. Then we don't want to be part of the problem that they represent, so we avoid the behaviors that they stereotypically engage in, and eventually we've closed off entire parts of ourselves, aspects of ourselves we probably need. Since the parallels between what we see as traditional masculinity and stereotypical homosexuality were mentioned in your comment, we can use that as an example. Platonic physical affection between heterosexual men has not always been a taboo, and neither has the idea of men expressing emotional or physical pain. But we don't want to appear homosexual so we stay away from those behaviors. We may even ruthlessly belittle anyone who does display these traits, and berate children who aren't aware of these taboos and are unreservedly emotional and affectionate. After a couple of generations, the majority of straight men just... Don't know how to be affectionate anymore, don't know how to process emotion outside of the range of the ones society has deemed acceptable. And there's no one to teach them. They just kind of hurt and feel repressed and don't know what to do. Then there's the knock on effect. They can't form relationships. They hesitate to properly examine themselves, because self-examination is painful and they don't know how to deal with pain. If they can't look honestly at their own shortcomings then they stagnate, which just makes them feel more hopeless. They struggle to connect with their children. They make their romantic partners (if they have them) their therapists, which is both unfair and exhausting. And maybe their partners are so indoctrinated to the same worldview that they find masculine vulnerability off-putting, even when it's just a healthy request for support. It just keeps spiraling and growing until no one is happy, everyone is frustrated or angry, and we don't have what we need to fix it so we have to almost re-learn how to be fully human all over again. I'm rambling but I agree with you: What the Narrator was doing initially was seeing the wholeness of his humanity again, even if it was a hazy view. Then he shut the healthy doors and doubled down on the resentment and the rage. This movie is so good.

[@duffman18]

@@TheOneTrueDaedelus yep you're completely spot on. You explained it much better than I did. And you're completely right that this really is just a trend, that started toward the end of the Victorian era. There's a lot of writing by queer academics about how at the end of the Victorian era, straight men being affectionate and emotional and caring with other men began to be criminalised. Oscar Wilde is the quintessential example of this, although he was gay of course, but it had a huge knock on effect for straight men too. He was made an example of. And so from then on, throughout the entire 20th century, this very modern trend of men thinking masculinity means being stoic and unemotional and never talking about your feelings and never being caring and affectionate and tender with your male friends anymore, it just became the dominant way of thinking about how men should behave, at least across the western world anyway. I don't know too much about how it worked elsewhere in the world, but I know that certain places like in the middle east for example, men never really stopped being tender and caring with their male companions. They'd walk around hand in hand with them, and still do today, in places like Saudi Arabia, which is somewhat surprising at first. But they feel fine about doing that because they literally will publicly deny that gay men even exist in their countries, and so they think there's no "danger" from being affectionate with their male friends. They can be as affectionate as they want, because "gay men don't exist" in their countries according to them. But yeah in the west, especially in countries like the UK and the US, all of this kind of behaviour was criminalised. Before Oscar Wilde's time, men would be so much more affectionate than you'd imagine, they'd even kiss each other on the lips, and nobody thought it was "feminine" to do so. For most of history it seems, men were allowed to be affectionate with each other and express their feelings without fear of ridicule and social exile. At least within certain boundaries and framing of the behaviour. So the 20th century really did a number on men's psyche and mental health because of all this. But because it really is just a relatively short trend, and is already reversing today with more men than every being open about their feelings and their mental health, talking about it openly, seeking professional help from psychologists and therapists and so on if needed, not being afraid of expressing certain behaviours that previously would get you shamed by other men and many women too for being feminine and unmasculine. So I'm hoping that that continues and things get better for men as time goes on. And yeah everything you said was correct, like even today some women (not the majority, but still a fair amount) see these behaviours as unmasculine too and will ridicule men who do this, even people they've been in a relationship for a while and claim to love, when men open up their feelings to them, a break up soon follows. But yeah you're also perfectly right that all this bottling up of their emotions meant that a lot of men dealt with them in terrible ways, as you say turning their girlfriends and wives into their therapists because they refuse to go see a professional, which is just completely unfair and a huge burden to put on your significant other. Even if you're married, it isn't their job to manage your emotions like that, like you're a kid. Obviously it's great to both talk about your feelings and mental health and help each other through difficult times, but yeah there's a difference between that and just dumping everything onto them and expecting them to fix you like they're a trained doctor. And of course a lot of men turned to things like alcohol and used that as their way of dealing with bottled up emotions. It's such tricky thing. But dealing with feelings at the start, when they're still small, nipping them in the bud instead of bottling them up for years until the bottle one day finally explodes all over everyone and harms all the people closest to you, friends and family, is the best way. And it's getting more and more accepted these days. So yeah this will be eventually seen as simply a relatively short trend, that lasted maybe 150 years or so, but then eventually things returned to how they were before the late 20th century and men's mental health will improve greatly. That's the hope anyway. Sorry I'm rambling too now lol. But yeah you explained it far better than I could. So thank you for that. I completely agree with you.

[@minirth.maggie]

My last therapist was VISIBLY disgusted at my enduring love for fight club.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Nooooo!!! It's such a good film, especially for therapeutic ideas. It explores so much that so many struggle with

[@rumpelstilzz]

@@mylittlethoughttree For every male person born between mid 70ies and late 80ies, it is the most important film ever made. If you don't agree, please re-watch.

[@APrime25]

@@rumpelstilzz I’m early 80’s, so I qualify & agree it’s a great film, but somehow I bet our interpretation of it isn’t the same. Why do you think it’s the “most important” ever made?

[@rumpelstilzz]

@@APrime25 cuz it alignes 100% of how we feel about society in general. I seem to remember how 'fight clubs' popped up all over the western world after that movie, and I was part of one. It was exactly what we craved for, and it delivered. Given the state of today's youth, how digitalisation and the always available mobile cams plus the technical achievemants of the surveillance state via corporations make it impossible for young men to live out the darker sides of their existence aka 'wild youth' I can't help but feel sorry for them. If any youth today would live out their wild youth as I have, it would mess up their CV forever.

[@TheGeorgeD13]

@@rumpelstilzz "Cuz it aligns with 100% of how we feel about society in general" Speak for yourself dude. It's a good movie, but it doesn't resonate at all with me as a man. It's just not reminiscent of any pattern of thinking or belief that I have. I lived out my wild youth and it didn't mess up my CV none. Just don't be an idiot and film yourself all day long. Not that fucking hard. But regardless, it just doesn't match anything I feel or believe about being a man or my experiences as a man or how I feel about society. It's a movie based on a novel by a gay man. I think it's about a very specific kind of man. A man like the author who would have to grapple with his sexuality and what that means for him as a man. But for most men and even most gay men today, I just don't see that being as much of an issue nowadays.

[@HeatherHolt]

“We work jobs we hate to buy sht we don’t need.” and “It’s only after you’ve lost everything that you’re free to do anything.” are the two quotes that stick with me the most, after 24 years of loving this movie. Tyler isn’t always right, he’s a result of what happens when someone is kept down by society and unfulfilled, but he is right about a lot in the beginning. But we aren’t supposed to agree with his Project Mayhem actions, that’s when he goes too far, that’s when the narrator takes back control and gets rid of Tyler, the climax point when he is forced to change. When the narrator mentions Tyler setting up franchises it’s a callback to the line about his father. Part of narrators feelings of abandonment. The car scene and the hand burn scene are my two favorites. “Something on your mind, dear?” “No… Yes.” 😂 So glad to hear your take! ❤ Now plz do American psycho and Donnie darko lol

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Yeah the line about his dad is great! One simple sentence that gets to the heart of so much. If I was ever to make a character analysis, that's such a fascinating point I should do those films, yeah!

[@JohnBender1313]

I always liked "Bob. Bob had bitch tits." Really stuck with me.

[@PuffinPass]

This is the same issue with Ted Kazinsky. He was right on so many levels, but his method of delivering the message leaves much to be desired. So do we disregard the entire message because of distasteful delivery?

[@JohnBender1313]

Having Wheres My Mind play in the background the whole time was a nice touch. You cant seperate that movie and song to me.

[@galvanist]

i was sat here wondering what to watch while i eat and then two seconds later i got a notif for this. divine intervention

[@squirlmy]

Just a little trivia: Chuck Palahniuk the author, has said Marla is based on a gay man, not a woman. Helena Bonham Carter does an amazing job in the role, but seeing the film multiple times, it becomes easy to see the character as a consistently transgressive, effeminate man in the 90s. It takes away some of the humor of the testicular cancer support group, but it certainly makes more sense! Maybe it's unimportant detail, but I felt is was a useful new way for me to understand the film from another viewpoint. And learning the author Palahniuk is a gay man, a point a lot of younger viewers of the film don't seem to know.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Thinking of some of the gay men I knew back in the 90's makes Marla's character make a lot more sense to me! Thanks for the info!

[@Afterflowers-v4k]

I'm so glad you decided to make this one. Not only did it expand my thoughts on Fight Club, it also helped me have some breakthroughs about what I'm trying to do with my current WIP. Thank you!

[@ScarlitWidow]

Don't know if I just never noticed before, or a new improvement to your editing skills, but the flight club music in the background really makes this whole video pop! ❤ Also appreciated your viewpoints on this HS favorite

[@Alex-cw3rz]

10:20 techically we see he has a dozens of ID's on the back of his bedroom door so he has presumably asked this question quite a number of times.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Yeah, I was going to mention that, especially the fact they're called "human sacrifices" but then I wondered if I was misunderstanding and those are the IDs of people who joined project mayhem

[@jasonandkathleenbarker6306]

This was clarified in the book. The IDs are of the victims of “cut and run”. The whole scene with Raymond K Essel didn’t happen in the book and instead there were castrations of innocent men. The author was obsessed with castration.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

In addition to what you said Chuck Palahniuk the author of Fight Club, has said that part of the fight club was that he felt play fighting had been lost. Although at the same time if you add in the book a lot more homo-erotic tension would have to added onto the context of a lot of scenes, which is much more deep subtext in the movie.

[@darkfuture3291]

It's interesting at the time that gay writers had their own genre in bookshops and Chuck didn't discuss his sexuality until later, which is absolutely fine. But at the time there was a casual and widely accepted homophobia, as can be seen in episodes of friends from the same time. I love the book and film, although it's appealing to more right wing perspectives now. But at the time there was very little discussion of maleness and constructs of masculinity. Other than ken in the recent Barbie film, perhaps there still isn't. Thank you for the video and your insights.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@@darkfuture3291 it is funny as the first scene in the book from my memory is on a nudest beach where tyler is described by the narrator in way that is not subtle. The unfortunate thing being that that right wingers totally miss the point of the book and the film, Tyler identifies real problems however his solutions are juvinile and unsustainable.

[@jasonandkathleenbarker6306]

The nude beach scene is like at least 20 pages in. The first scene is at the top of the Parker morris building where Tyler has the narrator hostage and the space monkeys are throwing things out the windows. And the plan is to blow up the building in order to destroy the real target: a museum next door. Then the flash backs begin. It’s pretty similar to the movie

[@angrytheclown801]

​@@darkfuture3291You do realize that the audience Chuck was writing for: Gen X, would never have tolerated examining masculinity or any of that hoo hah right? You have to know your audience, and for that crap, Gen X wasn't it.

[@jasonchotard9750]

You might want to re-watch that scene; Tyler finds a college I.D, and asks what Raymond wanted to be, and why he didn't finish.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

He does indeed, but all the emphasis is on what he wanted to be back then, without asking what he wants to be now. He threatens Raymond into pursuing what he once wanted to be, based on a college ID, without ever considering there might be a reason he broke away. Tyler could've easily asked why Raymond left. Raymond loosely mentions "too much studying" but does that mean he "failed" and needs to try again, or does it mean the studying wasn't right for him, or that it hindered his ability to pursue other interests?

[@broggii]

I saw Tyler as a personification of unregulated masculinity and Marla as unregulated femininity. There are good aspects to both characters (Tyler is a confident go-getter with a plan and Marla is secretly kind and caring) but without control, both of them end up on their own destructive paths: Tyler destroying everything around him and Marla destroying herself. She “tries” to self-delete while he threatens to delete other people. I thought the moral of the story was to embrace the positives while controlling the negatives of both. And/or that both men and women need each other to reach zen.

[@TheOneTrueDaedelus]

This video is a great double feature with Cinema Therapy's video on Aragorn from LotR (the movies specifically) as an example of positive masculinity.

[@imacg5]

I think the opening clip's point is really "I want a NDE to change my life and have the best breakfast the next morning", implicating "I hope some disaster could happen to me (so I can change)".

[@logruszed]

He's going to wake up believing a psychopath with a gun has his home address. But! Anecdotally, of course it has to be anecdotal as you can't really make this happen in any ethical lab, people who survive near death from suicide attempts do often continue on as if something has been "fixed". IIRC the documentary The Bridge (2006) interviews several people who attempted suicide from the Golden Gate Bridge and in failing seem to have "cured" some kind of depression.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

I could see that making some sense. Eitherway, I think it's different to a situation a stranger forces you into, where you remain terrified that they have your ID and will be back in another 6 weeks

[@logruszed]

@@mylittlethoughttree yeah, that's my reality. paranoia/hypervigilance is already an issue for me on a good day. I'm too busy wondering if rustling leaves are people creeping around. I don't have time for some guy with a gun who talks to himself to know where I live.

[@gracehaven5459]

Oh my god the bridge was one of the hardest documentaries for me to watch in my life. The only one that surpassed it is Dear Zackary 😭

[@HeatherHolt]

The bridge was such a hard watch… honestly, when they showed the long shot and then you hear a splash and you realize that was a person who had jumped… that sticks with me.

[@MrsImogen]

What a great interpretation! I loved it. More like this, please!

[@Bolts_Films]

the reading I had of the film on a recent rewatch was that Martha is also a part of the narrators psyche, like Tyler is. They both appear in flash frames throughout the film, both seem to respond to his inner narration, and both of their stories parallel the Narrators. Im sure other people have thought of this, but I think there's enough there for another video if that reading interests you!

[@HeatherHolt]

Marla? No… she is real. Idk where people get that. I’ve seen that on Reddit. It’s interesting, but objectively wrong.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

I personally prefer her being real because I think the narrator holding her hand at the end gets to symbolise him finally engaging with the real world. Nonetheless, there are reasons that could suggest it and there's still a lot to gain from that interpretation

[@legzfalloffgirl5148]

I thought about that too, and it is possible. The only thing is that other people interact with Marla in ways that don't happen with the narrator/Tyler

[@capeto08]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmoaKJ4q7Seb7csi=M6dgFDD3ywzQ5XxU

[@jasonandkathleenbarker6306]

Marla is real. That is explicitly made clear at the end of the novel. Marla arrives at the top of the Parker morris building with the support group to check on the narrator. At that instant Tyler disappears because he is not real. But Marla is still there because she is real. And Bob is real. The only fake personality is Tyler. This is made very clear in the novel.

[@simongotborg3866]

Thanks for another great video. Fight Club really is a brilliant movie, every time I go back to it I find more things to love about it.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

The only problem with Fight Club is the people who don't get it... media literacy is just not there for so many peculiar men

[@kieranstyx3633]

And you're so sure you do?

[@Window4503]

@@kieranstyx3633I mean, they’re likely right…the main litmus test is whether you think Tyler’s actions and philosophy are correct.

[@kieranstyx3633]

Which Tyler? The real one or the imaginary one? Which actions and which philosophy? Many of the things done and said by Tyler, the narrator, or the movie itself are completely (and most likely intentionaly) contradictory. The problem here is one can only actually find a "point" to this film by intentionally ommiting or ignoring aspects of it to project a narrative they WANT to see.

[@Window4503]

@@kieranstyx3633Yes…which is what certain groups of men do, hence why the original comment said that media literacy is down; they don’t see the contradictions.

[@kieranstyx3633]

The only way to actually get to the heart of seemingly oxymoronic narrative like this is to actually go to the source and look at the writers intentions. Chuck has specifically said that he thinks art should be and is best when its a rorshach test. Considering most people, including himself, consider fight club to be his magnum opus, it stands to reason that this is exactly what Fight Club actually is.

[@moonsnakesheddingskin]

I could listen to you talk about it more! Great vid!

[@FlavioRicardodaSilva]

I had this experience of becoming what I wanted and then discovering that I didn't really want it. And that was liberating. At the beginning of this process, two years ago, I rewatched Fight Club and felt like there was something there for me. I only understood that now, watching this video. Now it makes sense that the end of the line is to get over Tyler.

[@billsteinfeld559]

Surprisingly,not a single reviewer of "Fight Club" has realized that this film is a modern retelling of the Edgar Allen Poe story "William Wilson"!!! I ask every fan of this movie F.C. to read the E.A.Poe short story. Again, it's called "William Wilson" and the main theme about a man who has a split personality but actually believes his alter ego is a real, separate person. He doesn't realize that HE IS both characters. Read and reply to me. Thanks!

[@prettyboishah2898]

Thank you 🎉, I'll check it out, I'm guessing that it's also the fight club book based off as well.

[@billsteinfeld559]

@@prettyboishah2898 I'm still surprised that the author of Fight Club is unaware of the William Wilson story. He has never made any reference to it in any interviews that I've read. Could it really be that he was totally unaware of W.W., and happened to write a story with such similar theme? Maybe it's like the 1890's novel "Futility" that tells a tale precisely the same as what befell the Titanic.

[@prettyboishah2898]

@billsteinfeld559 Wow! That's honestly strange that the author of F.C. book, doesn't reference W.W. It's something I did not know before. He may or may not know that that's what he sampled from, lol.

[@summerraylene]

Great job! This was really enjoyable and is inspiring me to watch fight club again. I only watched it once 10 or so years ago, it’s irrefutably a movie that lends well to watching a second time

[@gatantcenera5731]

To be honest, narrator's whole mental gymnastics about letting himself cry a little bit is very interesting indeed... I would really love to hear more of your thoughts on it because it seems to be connected to the core of his whole character in certain ways...!!! Overall i really, i mean really love your analysis!!! It's so refreshing to see videos like this since a lot of fc analysis videos don't dive deep enough like you did :3

[@ogrehaslayers605]

After my buddies and i watched Fight Club when it first came oit, we actually started a "Fight Club". No conspiracy or terrorism. Just fighting. It was liberating and made us feel alive. As we did it, more and more people joined. It made us unafraid of things. It showed us what we were capable of. It was fun! We did this for about a uear, and we're all in our late 40's to early 50's now. We still talk about it fondly to this day. 😊

[@marxbarx2009]

this review is incredible! i think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of aspects of fight club. this movie means a lot to me for the same reasons, the fact i relate to the narrator so much. i think you ought to read the book because a lot of points you bring up, specifically the self harm angle and the idea the narrator actually does care for a lot of the people he supposedly hates, is wayyy more explicit and fleshed out than the movie. when the narrators life and sanity completely unravel near the end, tyler actually kills the narrators boss in the book. that whole rule of him not killing anyone isnt a thing in the book because tyler kills several people and when the narrator starts connecting the dots that he and tyler are the same, he is horrified by the memories of these murders. regarding his boss, theres this line where he says "the thing is i actually liked my boss. most american men think of their bosses as father figures." im paraphrasing a bit, but thats essentially what he says and i find that line so fascinating because it does sort of confirm that despite tyler representing a lot of the narrators deep seated desires, tylers complete lack of regard towards other people isnt something the narrator actually agrees with. as much he tries to make it this level of apathy this act of revolution and projects that idea unto tyler, when actually confronted with tylers actions, hes terrified. this isnt what he wants. you get so wrapped up sometimes in self hatred and misery and when you build up self destruction to be the real answer, you also tend to forget that you *do* actually feel love and kindness for others, despite how cynical and pessimistic your mindset is. idk maybe im projecting but thats what i got from it lol. but whats even more fascinating to me is an entire chapter that was left out. tyler murders a politician and while he remembers his wife finding his corpse at a murder mystery party, the narrator also recounts giving himself up to a fight club where he lets himself get brutally beaten almost to death by a series of club members. this is the most explicit the narrator gets when describing his own self loathing. he plainly lays out that hes hoping he gets beaten to death because he wants out of project mayhem. theres almost this duality, between this scene and the scene where he brutally beats angelface. while fight club was founded as a masculinizing and empowering release for its members and its rules are meant to even the playing field, opposite of the hierarchy present in society, we see how the narrator uses fight club in these acts of pure self destruction. theres nothing philosophical or anything to be gained from either act. its pure self harm. sort of speaking from personal experience and just from things ive noticed online, i think a lot of us who suffer mentally tend to view self harm as some sort of poetic thing. there's something to be said about it. the beauty or rebellion in self harming and self destruction. its roots in philosophical ideas like nihilism. but really these are the thoughts and actions of severely mentally ill people hurting themselves. i like to think like me, the narrator wrongly beleives that negativity and cynicism are enlightenment and staying content and happy with life is for stupid people. and being someone whos always valued intelligence and also an artist, this idea you need to be miserable to be talented or smart consumes you. you become spiteful, filled with hatred, and you continue to beleive you are enlightened or smarter or better than everyone else for rejecting the idea of "improving" based on what they tell you is perfection on tv from products they want you to buy. and on some level, its true that a lot of tv and society presents you as the ideal life is complete bullshit (working just to buy more things to cope with how crushing work is), but a lot of the actions you actually commit in service of these ideals arent these acts of rebellion, its just hurting yourself. i really wish this chapter and whole sequence leading up to it was included in the movie because i think it really hits home how so much of what the narrator did and experienced was all from a man who is deeply troubled and mentally ill. its ironic how people watch the movie and idealize tyler as this revolutionary, the exact same way the narrator did, but unlike the narrator, they never had that moment of realizing tylers actions didnt reflect what they actually wanted. i think if this scene was in the movie, it wouldve been more obvious and sunk in how terrifying this sort of mental spiral is. ive felt it firsthand and more than anything, when you sink that low that you think self harm and suicide is the only answer to end your suffering, its simply terrifying. its a scary feeling to be suicidal or to self harm and fight club captures those feelings so well and it means so much to me because of that.

[@MachineNun]

Marla doing the same thing for an emotional release, and being a woman, probably doesn't help with his sense of masculinity.

[@IIISWILIII]

The narrators doctor is entirely responsible for the creation of Fight club 👀

[@whataday-whataday]

Watched liked 10 video's now including the spirited away series. Your channel is amazing.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Ahh thankyou!

[@robertmatthews9650]

This film goes through so many different views and philosophies, we should all be humble enough to know multiple interpretations can be correct. So let’s not be so quick to judge people we feel “don’t get it”. Cause in this context, it is a meaningless statement. Now let’s continue these good conversations 👍🏽

[@jonreznick5531]

I really like this focus on the take around Ray. What most people miss about this story is that its author, a gay man, wrote it as a satire of toxic masculinity. I felt like this was a little easier to spot than the movie because the movie is slick and glamorous and exciting.

[@angrytheclown801]

No he didn't. He meant it as a rorschach test. You put in what you want. We didn't have that inane term "toxic masculinity", it wasn't even a concept. You need to look into the time period it was written for.

[@ck2d]

Did you open up access for your last video? If so could you make a community post with a link to it?

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Do you mean katie episode 13? Yeah, there is a community post or you can find it via the playlist. It is unlisted but all of them are put in the public playlist I have for the katie videos

[@ronaldallen1252]

I got into a fight in high school with my future best friend. We were both huge dudes (6’6” and 300 pounds) and we were both wrecked afterwards and nobody really won. Later after we graduated we came together and became instant best friends and would’ve run through walls for each other. He was killed by a guy driving while texting and I miss Bobby everyday. We were both Tyler and narrator to each other. You never really know the mettle of your friends unless youve been through sone stuff.

[@pyjamacritic1171]

Tyler's words at the start are valid but he doesn't live up to them. We all remember "the things you own end up owning you." But before that he was saying"let it all go, let the chips fall where they may, never be complete." Yet when he meets Raymond who has done just that, accepted his fate and let those chips fall where they did, he doesn't approve. Suddenly he's insisting Raymond should strive to be complete, that he should chase his [material] dream. Put it in context of Tyler's dream of a primitivist anarchist society, one where modern comforts like pets (and therefore vets) don't exist and you see just how contradictory he really is. Of course it was never really about helping Raymond or anybody else sort their lives out. It was all just for Tyler's own entertainment, that's all he ever cared about.

[@Diispaceyone]

interesting viewpoint. Well done!

[@ikedogman1]

Fight Club is one of those tragic things where all of the satire is glossed over by people who can’t recognize it and embrace what the satire is calling out. It’s as if no one is watching the same movie. Our narrator is clearly delusional and had some kind of psychotic break as a result of his insomnia and life circumstances. He’s beyond an unreliable narrator and is reacting to a real concern about the state of masculinity with ridiculous extremes. The classic following of logic to its more absurd conclusions. And the result is a generation of men who idolize someone’s psychosis. It’s sort of depressing and sad.

[@sinakaedwards2009]

My reason for punching things like walls, cars, or even self is the need to break something.

[@jdreign7210]

Marla isn’t real. She is the peace and truth to Tyler’s chaos

[@nowhereman6019]

If we're talking about weakness, then Tyler is probably the biggest example of it in this movie. Tyler/The Narrator feel emasculated and powerless within their capitalist consumerist society, but instead of actually changing anything in a constructive way that would improve people's lives and give them a long term ability to feel empowered, they simply cope and lash out in what is ultimately an impotent act of senseless violence. Blowing up a couple Starbucks or office buildings will change nothing. Society will not collapse and turn into the dog-eat-dog world that Tyler wants. All of this is just fantasy and directionless violence.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Technically yes, there are odd little moments in this film where I see Tyler like an insecure 12 year old boy or something, trying his best to seem tough. There's something about that that strike some empathy from me, however he is really a projection of the narrator's, and what he thinks strength means, so the fact it is so completely flawed and opposed to deeper empowerment, agency, and self confidence is a very fun irony

[@bolo2393]

As far as we know from the movie, the only person that actually dies as a direct result from project mayhem's actions is Bob. All of their other destructive actions involve no casualties, at least none that are actually shown or reported or mentioned. And he doesn't want a dog eat dog world, he wants to end that in favor of small community cooperative living.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

@@bolo2393 That's a pretty good point! To me, I see that more in the context that Bob is the only person the narrator learned the name of, the only one that would matter to him. Others may have died, he just may not have recognised or taken them to heart. It's easy to enjoy chaos until it hurts someone you know. That's my interpretation anyway. I love how endlessly it could be discussed in a new light

[@86onionz]

​@@bolo2393bob to me is a figment of the narrators imagination. How you may ask? Bob is the split between Marla and Tyler. Masculine and feminine. It's how the narrator confines himself and copes with himself

[@gaesimp__]

When I first watched Fight Club, which was last year, I remember feeling deeply about it and feeling affected by what it was trying to say about vulnerability and what room that traditional masculinity leaves for it (or lack thereof), I'm so happy that you made a video breaking down what it could mean because I couldn't entirely make sense of it at the time. And I like how you pointed out how common consensus about what toxic masculinity is can get muddled and be misinterpreted to mean that all masculine (or traditionally masculine) traits are negative since I feel a lot of guys now do feel that insecurity with how people view masculinity (or at least I did). But looking back through it a year later, I realised how the movie did continiously indicate that it was feminine or emasculating to be vulnerable or show raw emotions aside from anger. I think what makes Fight Club so good though, even aside from gender, is how it shows people get caught up in their own head on what it means to be something, and how to handle the fear and pressure that comes with trying to figure out who you want to be and how you want people to view you, everyone feels scared being vulnerable and no one wants to feel weak when they are.

[@kravvall4869]

I can tell you why, after looking back. To feel pain. There is something cathartic about when it stops. A sudden burst and then it stops l, you feel relief and like you’ve done something. It’s not helpful in the long run, but very short term it helps you feel something. For me that was the explanation why people go so far with drugs, and why there are gym rats or cyclists torturing themselves

[@liquidocelot4885]

I still remember the first time i watched this masterpiece.... my god, i havent been mind fucked like that since grade school.

[@thespicecoin4995]

The strong do what they can, the weak do what they must. The essence.

[@cbretschneider]

Greetings sir. I've really been enjoying your character analyses ever since I first encountered your Breakfast Club series of videos. I've recently been watching the Shogun series on FX and find some the characters fascinatingly complex. I'm wondering if you'd consider doing videos on some the characters, Mariko especially. Cheers

[@andypotanin]

The more I watch this the more I see it’s all about Marla. As flawed as she and the narrator are, she is stronger than him, and that breaks him.

[@j.martinez8282]

Having been held up at gunpoint and facing the possibility of having one's brains blown out by a nut with a handgun, I have some insight about the trauma the character of Raymond experienced as a result. For me, it was the icing on the cake of abuse that I had already previously suffered and shortly thereafter started exhibiting all the classic symptoms of PTSD. The only guys I could talk to back then who understood what I was suffering from as a result of that horrific incident were Vietnam Vets. So no, I don't think Brad Pitt's character in the movie did Raymond any favors.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Thankyou for this comment. I've had a lot of people tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about, and that I've clearly led a sheltered life, for thinking it could cause a hell of a lot of trauma. Obviously situations can vary a bit but I think the idea of glorifying what Tyler does is such a dangerous viewpoint. It's a horrible thing to have to experience

[@truevulgarian]

Have you seen As Good As it Gets? Jack Nicolson plays a writer with OCD, though there are more psychological veins to be mined. I think both Nicolson and Helen Hunt won best actor oscars for this movie. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

[@nicholasblair4876]

Read the book… do any research behind it.

[@OnnieKoski]

This is my first time hearing about IFS. I’ll have to look into it

[@Xis-ql5pj]

Excellent interpretation. In many ways. I myself am going thru a phase. If not moving to an abandoned shack and building an army to assuage my anger about this reality. Instead . I have been drawn to the woods. And make peace on daily basis with the creatures that live there. Even the snakes . Perhaps I'm becoming a Forrest spirit myself

[@jasonandkathleenbarker6306]

His name was Robert Paulson

[@fescountcristo9256]

His name was Robert Paulson

[@misteranthrope-lw6xd]

marla is a projection of narrator, embodying the weaknesses in himself that he is ashamed of. the movie ends with narrator holding hands with and resembling marla, representing his ability to love himself (ie, accept himself, forgive himself for not meeting self-imposed expectations, stop “beating himself up”). tyler represents the dark hole that the male mind goes into to cope with a sense of powerlessness and meaninglessness.

[@megazillion2946]

I've had two severe near death experiences brought on by bad actors and the food did not taste better at all.

[@jacob_massengale]

I don't like a lot of videos. This was the best commentary I've seen on the film yet!

[@elonmusk4490]

Marla represents another aspect of the narrator's personality. She may be a real person but she is a personification of what he wanted to be when he invented tyler. The donkey needed a lion to become a child.

[@icarofrancopicerni8577]

Have you read the book? I did recently. My edition has an postface that the author says he started the novelization of his short Fight Club story by mirroring The Great Gatsby. This one I read a long time ago but this definitely caught my attention. In the end it is just a love triangle in which our narrator wishes to be more like his friend/competition.

[@RedScarGaming]

You are breaking rules number 1 and 2...but I will forgive it this once.

[@enicot]

Fight Club is great. Liking a film doesn't mean you endorse the behavior of the people in it or that you vicariously live the worst part of yourself through it. I love Fight Club because even when I was a teenager and Tyler made all the sense in the world, I could tell there was something off about him. Years later you watch the movie again without any veil of teenage angst over your eyes and it's an entirely different film. Art changes with you.

[@garythacker6731]

Have you ever had a near death experience? I once worked with an older woman at a gas station (late 40s early 50s), she got a discount boob job in Mexico. She was in her 20s when she did this. She got an infection so bad that it nearly killed her. She had to get the implants removed here in America. She was convinced that it was good for people to have a near death experience every so often. It made them (her) appreciate life more. I'm allergic to many things. Red 40, pretty much every antibiotic, and most tropical fruits. I go into anaphylaxis. I have learned everything I am allergic to the hard way, often ending up in the ER. Most of these were at a young age. I remember many times everything fading to black as my throat swole shut. I understood the sentiment she was trying to portray. I don't think Raymond becomes the veterinarian and my next meal certainly wasn't sweeter than all the rest. I do believe there is something to it though.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

I was almost lost at sea and nearly drowned when I was young. I agree with you, Tyler's not entirely wrong, there is some logic, but all it left me with was trauma and both a fear and awe of the ocean

[@garythacker6731]

@@mylittlethoughttreeThanks for sharing. I've never been out to sea like that. There is something about the vastness that scares me. I can't swim worth a damn either. Your commentary about not having to completely understand or relive your trama. I think your words were "Come to conscious conclusions about your trama" is pretty insightful. I dealt with a pretty devastating breakup. I remember going through all the information I had, I spent days up. Slowly driving myself mad combing through every interaction text and so on and so fourth. I hadn't realized it but through my overanalyzed I was picking the wound open again every chance I had. A friend told me that I didn't have to understand it, if it makes you feel better make up a reason. That was so freeing. I had a fear of needles most of my life. My wife and I had to get some blood work done a while back. My wife has tiny veins, often they have to poke her multiple times. She was across the table from me on probably her 3rd poke. I told the nurse I was nervous and watched the needle shake in her hand after I told her. I reaffirmed her saying "Look you have done this many times today, you've got this" and pointed to the vein. As the needle entered my arm I said "That's it?". My wife was ready to jump over the nurse that had stabbed her 3-4 times and slap me. I haven't been afraid of needles since. Have you studied Cognitive Behavioral Therapy before? You claimed you were trained in trama therapy.

[@LuckyEssoBee]

Near death experience was a term coined by a man named Raymond Moody, to describe the experiences a person has between the time when they actually die and when they are resuscitated. In Fight Club, the Raymond character does not have an NDE. He has a scare, maybe a brush with death. He does not have an NDE. Spoiler: Marla Singer is also a figment of the narrators imagination.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Yeah I think it's partly my fault this video for describing it as one, when it's not, it's a man threatening to shoot and threatening to come back again in the future. I think NDE do have the potential to be positive but the situation is so different here and Tyler doesn't understand that or doesn't care

[@Swagger5-y6s]

I just watched this movie, and I'm just sitting here zoning out, not even thinking, feeling like I'm going mad or something. I don't know why. I have no thoughts, no emotions, nothing. Can someone explain?

[@el-violador]

A collection of running notes Bob was shirtless in the book if I remember correctly. I think it's because the prosthesis needed to be obscured The lye scene is great. I've always seen it as Tyler trying to get the narrator (from here on I'll call him Jack) to acknowledge his pain. Stop blocking it out. Stop pretending it's not there. Feel it. This is your pain. Tyler is just doing a very literal metaphor Not only are the groups an excuse to cry and vent pent up emotion, but it also gives Jack a window into a worse existence than his own. Well I may hate that I'm a nameless cog in a giant machine profiting off of my misery and society may not accept my problems as meaningful... But at least I still have my balls and have a parasite free brain! Yay!! Probably why he can't cry when Marla shows up. She is a mirror to how pathetic he is. *Note. Ah you got to almost my exact point right down to the word "pathetic". Apologies* Bob is also significant as a maternal figure. He has breasts, no testicles and holds him when he cries. He is the embodiment of "I'm wondering if another woman is really what we need" Something I've never noticed before in the many times I've seen this film is that his love for Marla by the end makes some sense. She has seen him be vulnerable. Really that's what a significant other is there for. To be the one person you don't have to be afraid to be yourself in front of. He was scared of the intimacy of letting someone into his deepest insecurities but ultimately it's what he needed Sorry for the book report. I just really like this film

[@macfilms9904]

A couple of thoughts: I think about men (and some women) - who had regular jobs in factories and offices- maybe an insurance adjuster - in Ukraine - a nation trying to recover from Soviet occupation and join the modern European world - and then Russia comes knocking and these regular men are called into what does tend to be a hyper-masculine, violent calling; a soldier fighting for his country's existence. It doesn't get anymore real than that - it's the thing fight club is pretending to be and it chews these regular men up like war always does. The other was, I worked at HBO on the top floor of one of the towers when this film came out & when watching the final scene, I really delighted seeing my building came down as it was one of the two identical towers - it hit quite differently after 9/11.

[@abbery9202]

I agree Tyler does assume a lot about Raymond's character before he takes his actions. If Raymond had reasons for not pursuing being a vet other than fear or a lack of courage - then yes his actions and his threat aren't justified or useful. I think it's important to point out though that people are very good at giving themselves very convincing excuses for not pursuing their dreams. There's a fine line between having a legitimate and important reason to quit on something or change direction in life, and telling yourself a nice sounding story to make the swallowing of the bitter pill of your cowardice less painful. Of course we don't always knows exactly what boat we fall into when it comes time to make these sorts of choices. Let alone someone like Raymond who we basically know nothing about. If I were a betting man I'd probably assume it were due in large part to cowardice, judging by the liquor store job, maybe that's my pessimistic side speaking though.

[@speedfiend925]

Bob wore prosthetics to change his appearance that is why he never took his shirt off. 😁

[@bolo2393]

Project mayhem could be looked at as a blueprint for saving humanity while saving as many lives as possible in the artificial economy's destruction. He made sure to get as many of the people at the bottom of society involved, made sure that all the credit business buildings were empty before they were reduced to rubble.

[@dranelemakol]

What if the impulse is not self-harm or releasing rage, but to challenge yourself, to face pain and conquer it? See Into The Wild for example.

[@alexknopp5064]

I mean that's what it's really all about. I.e. the lye burns they all endure

[@JustABowlOfCherries]

"Fight Club" the movie, is probably the most misunderstood in pop culture.

[@godstomper]

Fight Club like the Matrix was released in the same year. It's quite frankly the metaphorical spiritual awakening

[@PuffinPass]

When you realize that neither Tyler nor Marla are real but are just his invention....🤯

[@Automatons.]

Just like apocalypse now, the idea behind these films is basically the same. Men of the new era are looking for something that can fill that void, yet through a lack of motivation or dissatisfaction with their current lives, tends to lead men to return to their ancestor primal state, where no laws, no rules bound them to the ground. I feel like its something a lot of men long for, a final stand against an army, fighting, killing, destroying...

[@project_nihilist]

I named my channel as an homage to project mayhem

[@stiliangeorgiev8771]

The point about Raymond. You are missing the point entirely.

[@thENDweDIE]

16:36 Ironically...he's quite alpha compared to the gentleman behind them, quietly encroaching to hopefully couple with Marla... 17:46

[@jacobmaslin5481]

Jack is a man! Jack is a man who has lost his purpose. Jack created a new purpose. A little overzealous at first, but he adjusted and I'm going to bet, he's doing okay now.

[@Skoopyghost]

I have a little problem here. I read/watched Fight Club. I have a friend who probably likes/would Fight Club, but I can't talk about Fight Club.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

There's no rule against making interpretative dances about fight club!

[@AkinokazeHaruichiban]

What do you think of the theory, that Tyler isn't the only one who doesn't exist? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmoaKJ4q7Seb7c Fight Club: The twist that no one noticed. WhatisAntiLogic? In their interpretation, essentially nothing in Fightclub actually happens. Instead, the Narrator is suffering a psychotic break and developed DID after receiving a diagnosis of testicular cancer. He was actually at the support group to get support. Marla never invaded a men's support group but instead is one of his alters, just like tyler [and in my opinion, possibly Bob too.] The house on paper street is another version of the imagined safe space [the ice cave with the penguin.] Personally, i find his argument and points very convincing.

[@OldHenryLee]

The movie obviously goes through extremes to make whatever points, but yeah, it's a movie. ... I feel like the real point is quite simple - It's good for you to let loose once in a while. ... Yell & smash. Feels GREAT. But, clearly not healthy to do consistently. What I took from it at least. Kinda funny, I have an 8yo daughter & during the Winter we were walking home from her school on a cold yet sunny day a couple days after a wintery mix type of storm. ... During the walk my daughter & I started smashing this patch of hollow ice. ... I did it a little, but she REALLY got into it. Throwing her leg up very high and smashing on down. The look of satisfaction, insanity, & joy on her face was pricelessly awesome. I could tell what it was. It was that inner burst of letting loose. Going nuts for a second. ... Male or female - it's a fantastic feeling for most any human being. ... And if done once in a while without harming ones self or others it's completely fine.

[@ElaineAllen-cz5nm]

jesus in the middle of the analysis we get a stupid ad for "World Anvil" SMH

[@mylittlethoughttree]

KZbin doesn't pay well and I do genuinely love world anvil, so I can't say I feel too reticent about it anymore. There's always a timestamp to skip ahead

[@kevinsedwards]

The thing about him almost losing his life, does indeed make you more motivated and appreciative of life. For you to say his food won't taste good, you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

My point was that it's not as simple as that. I'm someone myself who almost lost my life but to give someone a near death experience and see it as a total positive because it'll make them appreciate life, is far too straightforward an approach to what Tyler does. There's still trauma, there's the threat of further danger, there's his loss of agency in his own life decisions, there's the fact he might not even want to be a vet. I don't deny there's logic to Tyler but thst doesn't make it right

[@thENDweDIE]

Have you read the book yet..?? Cause it's not mentioned...and some of your questions, are answered... Plus, It's only a couple hundred pages...the first time... Meaning that, the second and third time...I skipped right over Marla all together..!!

[@JetScreamer_YT]

Now if the movie could be interpreted as gay, then the groups. Those are anonymous groups. Could he be hooking up at night? The club is still anonymous but the time and place is always there for anyone. I don't think Marla's real either. Every time that we see Tyler in a flash, does that mean that he's changing his personality at that moment?

[@vade7424]

These thoughts about what the film is really about are off. Coming from a therapist. For a true look as to what the fils is really about. Which is a spiritual battle. People should really take a look at, Fight Club and Nietzsche: Overcoming Emasculation by Saint Bob. It truly and seamlessly explains the true meaning of the film and its relation with modern men.

[@jmace2424]

Good thing Raymond’s dream wasn’t to be an astronaut or a professional athlete!

[@mylittlethoughttree]

"you have six weeks to win an election and become the American president"😂

[@SunsetGLoA]

Fight club is genX, genX is fight club!...

[@thENDweDIE]

I was a tag-along, when I first saw this opening weekend, and having no clue wtf I was in for... During the drive up, I ate 4g of Fungi... Long story short, by the time we'd let out...I believed, in every sense of the word... ...that my 6"3 gothic bf, was and had always been...a figment of my imagination..!! Good times..!!

[@blacjackdaniels200]

You literally based this entire video and synopsis off of the fact that Tyler, as you said, never asked Raymond why he stopped pursuing becoming a vet Literally, the first question Tyler asked him. WHY? And then Raymond said because the schooling was too much. So he actually did provide the answer, and that would indicate a failure of sorts. He didn’t say that he wanted to do something else or that he just made a choice. He just said it was too much school, which would obviously be perceived as laziness or giving up.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Kind of yes, although I was basing it more from the idea that "too hard" isn't enough of an answer. What made it too hard? Like what does that even mean? Is it laziness or just it wasn't important enough to him to bother with how much effort it would be. When people don't put effort in, there's normally a deeper reason. I didn't take the very rushed, desperate answer given with a gun at his head, to be a deep enough answer

[@adammcmillen4462]

A poignant movie, esp to an adolescent male. It was my favorite movie from then on. Then my mother watched some of it and asked, "Why do you like this?" Felt rather apropos.

[@marcusmiller5443]

You give the destructive child a pass, by not acknowledging the OUTWARDLY destructive tendency. IF the child truly wanted to hit something, to hurt themselves, they'd 'thrust their fists against a post' (It reference, and early speech therapy nod). No, they're looking to destroy something, not themselves. You're wrong.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Well you're not wrong, no. The child example was an analogy I admitted didn't fit exactly however you still have to ask why hit something that breaks? What is it about destroying it that feels important? There are many possible answers there but also why hit it with your plain fists, knowing it will hurt, rather than grabbing something to hit with or kicking or throwing? I don't think the answer is a 1-1 situation. Often it's a lot of different contradictory things but with all the narrator talks about death and even fantasises about it, his own destruction is definitely one factor

[@marcusmiller5443]

@@mylittlethoughttree I believe I know the answer. The child is being raised in a chaotic environment, where morals and dogmas are touted, but never adhered to. Children are more in tune with plain and simple truth than the society/cultural (root word being cult) groups rearing them.

[@merricevans1341]

I didn’t like what you had to say overall. When we are made to feel powerless we express authority to feel powerful The Superman such as Tyler is not a messiah or any sort of perfect just someone willing to do what they think about And self improvement is just masturbation is referencing the physiological reality that all self improvement is born from some sort of self loathing

[@styrofoamboogie2042]

good video

[@nursenic03]

Raymond K hassle what do you want to do?

[@kevflon]

I developed a dissociative personality that comes out under the influence of drugs or alcohol after watching this movie... Maybe it was always there from childhood trauma, but it manifested after seeing this movie. I wanted My own Tyler Durden... but my version is nothing close. Still love the movie tho!

[@mylittlethoughttree]

Ahh if only it was as cool as Tyler makes it look! 😆

[@TheSprinklerNinja]

Did you realize that Marla is another one of his personalities?

[@minirth.maggie]

Is she? I thought she was real!

[@Zett76]

I don't think Tyler gives a sh** wether Raymond is thankful to him, or not... My friend got mugged at gun point, in Guatemala. He would never thank the mugger, and yes, of course it was traumatizing, but it DID change his life. He started being thankful to just be alive. Before that, being alive was kind of a given. I had a near-death experience (not caused by a human), that did a very similar thing. I get that the THREAT is the difference, but as soon as the ultimatum has passed - wether Raymond did turn around or not - the "thankful to be alive" effect will kick in. (or not, if he prefers to generalize himself as a victim... maybe it's more like a coin toss situation) I'm not disagreeing because I don't like your videos. I'm disagreeing because I love them. :) If that makes sense... (loved your Ted Lasso videos. Fight Club I haven't seen for years, now, but I was one of the few who saw it at the cinema, and about 20 times in the five or so years that followed) 2nd take: "men are supposed to be 'primal'"... I never read the movie (or the book) that way. It's only saying: don't DENY your primal side, or it will break through in very ugly ways.

[@JH-ks9oi]

You've obviously never died or came so close to it literally everything EVERYTHING COMES IN FINEST DETAILS AT SLOW MOTION I MEAN EVERYTHING THE ACCIDENT TAKING PLACE THE MEMORIES YOUR REGRETS I MEAN EVERYTHING! It's very hard to explain, you wake-up in pain you've never felt before after being in a peaceful euphoric place, It was the best coffee I've ever had when I awoken in hospital after they removed the breathing tube, IV's in my neck...

[@mylittlethoughttree]

I have, I very nearly drowned at sea and thought it was over. I suppose the fact is not everyone experiences everything the same way, and this isn't just about a near death experience. Tyler says it is but it's also the threat of a man coming back in six weeks and killing you if you haven't performed well enough. I reckon there's a big difference in that

[@OG-Capo---]

9:27 Yeah and when men do what they want to do and how they want to do it and live how they want to live usually they end up in the streets holding signs or in Jail ! 😂

[@mylittlethoughttree]

I think there's a big difference between what your most immediate impulses want to do, and what you really hope for in life. The things that give you purpose and meaning and fulfilment. That's really what I'm talking about. The narrator thinks he just wants to smash things up and rage at the world but...deeper than that, if he can find his way enough to see it, he realises what he wants is connection

[@davenatalie4221]

The Narrator is fake. Marla is fake as well. Brad Pitt is the only real person.

[@APrime25]

The narrator is the only real person but his name is the one he gave Brad Pitt’s character (Tyler Durden).

[@itzybitzyspyder]

I reject your premise. Being a man isn't a manifestation of our software, it's a manifestation of our hardware. To be a modern man, however, is to augment the natural hardware with unnatural software. Modern man is an ape in chains.

[@mylittlethoughttree]

That's fine, I can understand people disagreeing. I know times I've felt like an ape in chains but I also know seeing it that way, by definition, creates a perspex where I'm making myself a prisoner. We have to engage with the world as it is. I think a lot of men can live happy and fulfilling lives. Even hundreds or thousands of years ago, great gurus and zen masters are interesting from that viewpoint