The Desktop Environment Tier List

[@KeithBoehler]

Can you pin my comment reminding people to stay hydrated?

[@paul_wiggin]

Tiling in Gnome is the best. Specifically - popOS gnome. Its tweaked and works flawless. I tried it on ubuntu - it sucked. Gnome definitely is not the best from other perspectives, but, for productivity, popOS tiling does incredible job making windows management really great.

[@tailsorange2872]

!Hydrate

[@CTSFanSam]

I will drink to that!

[@ABCDEdu]

Aaand Chris, please… You - buddy - grab a glass as well, for even LXDE does better job than any Windows or OSX I've tried XD But i agree with heavy heart on principalities in assigning to GOAT tier; waiting for that KDE 6 to mature into lightweight, or LXQT to reach customizability of KDE 5.27 :)

[@CraftGodsOfficial]

Thank you I definitely needed to hear this...way too much coffee lately

[@lisenhatson]

Can't wait for WM tierlist and another tierlist series from Mister Titus, I really like the way he explains why even he ranked it based on his personal experience

[@JamesSullivan-ru4op]

It's just his personal opinion and carries no real weight. I don't like pizza, but you declare pizza the GOAT of foods. See what I mean? I have seen others make tier lists with varying opinions. It's individual, which is the entire point. Not that you do, but don't let others decide for you, including this guy.

[@nhefner]

I would love to see a WM list as well

[@TheSast]

Would have to have enough tierlist to have a tierlist of tierlists

[@hackeronx]

bspwm on top lol

[@alionicle]

Me too, despite using BSPWM, i don´t find any difference with i3, dwm or even xmonad

[@OnE61811301]

If KDE team spends a few rounds just fixing all the bugs and crap instead of shoving more features just for the sake of it, I believe it would beat everything else by far.

[@markh.6687]

But that's not "cool". Don't fix what's broken, ignore it and push 'pretty'. "Somebody else" will fix the real issues.....yeah, right.

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

I agree with this. Plasma is gorgeous and all the features and options are pretty nice, but it's always felt pretty buggy and messy when I've used it. KDE is very capable of taking a break from adding features for a while to just focus on cleaning it up and making it nicer to use for normal people.

[@tomba2]

Almost every app I installed in KDE fails the first time I launch it then runs the next?

[@berniejo5307]

they also have a few redundant apps. honestly I love the KDE ecosystem but c'mon just work on one app for the job

[@SeanCC]

KDE is like the game City of Heroes. The dev team behind each spent all their time creating customization parameters and then seemed to run out of gas after that. In the case of the game, the game content isn't there. And in the case of KDE it's the tools. I'm finding I've no choice but to do so much more CLI simply because there's either no tool to do something or what's provided is terrible (ie. Discover).

[@Maxume]

I don't think XFCE receives even remotely the amount of love it deserves. It does have its limitations and quirks. However, if you want a DE you can dress up nicely but you want it to stay out of the way of your workflow, then XFCE is the DE for you. Definitely my top tier DE.

[@ruadeil_zabelin]

I used XFCE for years; I stopped using it when I got a 4k monitor because it handled HDPI awfully back then. I don't know how it is now but it was very broken a few years ago.

[@Maxume]

@@ruadeil_zabelin I don't have a 4K monitor so unfortunately I can not tell you it's gotten better.

[@div1ne30]

@@ruadeil_zabelin it's a lot better i use it currently on a two seperate 4k monitors dual booting it with linux mint and endeavourOS kde and after a bit of setup (mainly cause of two monitors) xfce works fine

[@raxsgamer]

XFCE it's intended to be the old hardware choice, it's pretty good too me.

[@JoelMogwasa]

@@raxsgamer It's a great DE for old hardware, it consumes less resources and gives life to otherwise retired machines.

[@jesse7631]

For me, GNOME is The Goat. Plus, you don't have to install extensions through the browser anymore, and can use the Extension Manager flatpak.

[@TheCorruptCat]

agree

[@TheCorruptCat]

@heinz5034 I think the gnome layout is better then the windows layout even if it feels like a tablet

[@julian.morgan]

what I was going to say!

[@AMx4q]

Yeah I think Chris did not use Gnome in a long time, that's why.

[@barathvicky0007]

KDE the best

[@khaoscero]

its KDE Plasma for me. KDE has come a looooong way. so if the trend continues this could be the one.

[@markh.6687]

KDE 3.x has been resurrected as Trinity Desktop Environment, and is used by Q4OS as their lightweight desktop. I played around with it some, but didn't feel like chasing down all the apps I want on a system. But I love the old-style icons and the system speed even on weaker machines.

[@omar.eskandar]

for Gnome, there is an extension manager app that can be used for extension sesrch and installation. it doesn't have to be done through a web browser.

[@nietzschescodes]

I agree, and several extensions can be downloaded directly through the terminal.

[@kazsm9666]

What's the name of this app?

[@omar.eskandar]

@@kazsm9666 it's called "Extension manager". you can find it as a flatpak.

[@brunoborguettilara]

"Extensions Manager".

[@Bpinator]

I mean this as respectfully as possible, but Gnome extensions are just cope. Extensions are mostly used to add what I consider to be basic functionality, and they often break on a new Gnome version

[@cameronbosch1213]

Personally, Cinnamon is now average for me. The lack of Wayland support is really dragging down the distro. How much longer will Cinnamon users have to wait!?

[@no_name4796]

Cosmic DE will probably come out before cinnamon gets a wayland edition lol

[@loc4725]

That and the Mint bugs like allowing background apps to repeatedly grab focus, 'always on top' doesn't work and the mouse pointer won't stay set across applications.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@no_name4796 And that's a huge problem in 2023.

[@kennybust]

Wayland is buggy, slow and stuttery for me anyway

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@kennybust Nvidia GPU? Which one?

[@WASTOIDSUPREME]

I'm a brand new linux user fresh out of the water and I went with mint's XFCE right out of the gate. I've been messing around with different windows-like distros on virtual machines for about a month and mint XFCE just jived with me the best out of all of them. I like that it's so lightweight and still very familiar to a windows slave- I mean _user_ like myself, and it's still highly customizable so I can finally escape the super flat UI pandemic that's been wreaking havoc on the tech industry for years now without using an ancient OS with more security holes than a block of swiss cheese.

[@2zz98]

Yes and it can look very good with some nice dark theme and different icons

[@WASTOIDSUPREME]

I did not realize my comment was _that_ long.

[@rushikeshmalave8063]

@@WASTOIDSUPREME Lol. Im so lazy, i read your sub comment but not your main comment

[@WASTOIDSUPREME]

@@rushikeshmalave8063 Lol I'm guilty of doing that all the time

[@alangamer50]

4:37 as of gnome 44, you no longer need the browser to install extensions, as there is now a desktop GUI dedicated to doing so

[@BoyanOrion]

App tray icons back in Gnome 44 without the need for extension? No? K, 10x, bye and see you at the next release Gnome!

[@WarmProp]

For a laptop, raw GNOME is great if you just succumb to the workflow and don't try to turn it into a traditional floating window DE.

[@miguelguthridge]

When it comes to the laptop workflow, nothing compares to Gnome - the trackpad gestures are quite simply unbeatable. It's nowhere near as nice as KDE when it comes to desktop use though sadly.

[@Chromiell]

​@@miguelguthridgeye, I use Gnome on my laptop: best experience I've ever had on that thing. Sadly you're kinda forced to install extentions to enable even basic functionalities like background apps. It's definitely great on a laptop and I'd probably even use it on desktop, but it sucks that so many functionalities are walled behind external extentions.

[@vaisakh_km]

I almost use my laptop as desktop replacement.. i don't bring lap anywhere...

[@BenKickert]

Gnome is like MacOS. The developers assume they know more than you about what you want. Not a fan.

[@erdanxiloscient3666]

100%. Only extension I run with it is Pop_OS!'s tiling shell, and those on a laptop are amazing for me

[@Peanutfiendsblog]

I usually just stick with KDE because I've used it so long that I know where every little tweak and setting is. I like trying out different ones but everytime I do, I can't figure out how to do something that I already know how to do in KDE and end up going right back to it.

[@SirChristoferus]

KDE is my favorite as well, particularly for further customizing custom-built computers. The broad spectrum of customization allows me to replicate the desktop experience of another OS like Windows or macOS - and if something goes wrong during that extensive customization, there’s always the option of reverting it all back to the Breeze theme and trying a different approach.

[@maxmouse3]

I love XFCE. Even though people think it's ugly, if you're just a normal user like me, have a few programs on it and needs the basics covered, stable and lightweight it's very good :) I also like gnome as well but it confuses me to do basic stuff every now and then and I hate friction when it doesn't give me benefits :(

[@arshiaaghaei]

My only gripe with XFCE is that it's not gonna have wayland support anytime soon, as Xorg is getting deprecated soon.

[@WagnerBrahm]

I've always liked Gnome. I even paid for Ximian Desktop! I really like Gnome 40 but I have to agree with you, the developers are very stubborn and having to add features, which are often basic like desktop icons through extensions, realy sucks!

[@DirkDierickx]

Ximian + gnome 2 were completely different beast! I liked (and used) those too, today Mate and XFCE are somewhat more similar to Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 is nothing like it.

[@NeonMinnen]

Forget about everything else and do this. Pick Debian or Arch. Use Gnome or KDE if you want a full DE. (XFCE is okay too) Use i3 or sway if you want a window manager. Don't waste your time with all the other stuff.

[@thatmg]

Can't really disagree. Fedora/Rhel could be a consideration (even in the current climate) and NixOS as a more "exotic" distro. But when it come to GUIs... its way better to go with the "popular" ones.

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

I mostly agree - though I'd say Fedora with GNOME for less technically capable users. Otherwise, Debian with GNOME unless they have a good reason to use a different DE or know what they're doing and want to use Arch.

[@PursuitOfUnderstanding888]

DUDE I AGREEEEEEEEE SO MUCH

[@ethiopianpegasus6925]

​ @thatmg man its been like 3 days searching for the perfect resource optimized distro with gnome, i been a fan of kde and now i wanna try gnome, i know am gonne dislike it anyways, can you pick me a distro and a DE please

[@darknightmike10yearsago]

I don't like i3. I don't get the point of having a manual tiling manager. I like auto-tilers. It fits my workflow much better.

[@ussul6524]

I love Mint you recommended for me. I am not doing a lot of stuff and it is really smooth. + I do not need to do a "lot" line commands. Makes me happy. For me the best OS is the one I do not have to think about. OS needs to be in background and let me do everything I need to with ease.

[@herald1953]

it is, but no wayland support and multiple workspace management is sub par compared to gnome

[@jaopolonio5726]

@@kurtm.7494 What do you testing now?

[@MiningForPies]

@@herald1953wayland is shit and buggy though. It’s still years away from being suitable for a machine you cannot do without.

[@jtmLtra]

​@@jaopolonio5726I've been enjoying the kde over gnome . Feels more windows and everything in one nice spot

[@a_plastic_bag]

@@kurtm.7494 People like it because it's simple, has an actually sane customisation out of the box (looking at you GNOME), it's pretty similar to Windows in terms of user experience and it's very stable.

[@WolfiiDog13]

For like half the video I was like: where's gnome??? Then you moved it out of the black background 😅 I absolutely love modern Gnome, both the DE and the apps. For me, personally, it is the best UI experience I had on any OS ever. I don't like having tons of options available, my mind can't handle visual clutter, and I like having one very direct path to doing stuff. My problem with most modern apps is that the UI is usually cluttered and full of stuff I don't use, and somehow gnome makes it look cleaner and simpler. Like there's a lot of gnome apps that do one single thing, and nothing else. That's perfect to me.

[@MysteryMan159]

Can’t agree more here. I do most of my everything in terminal when possible ... I like to maintain as a simple of a toolset as I possibly can ...

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

Yeah. I respect Titus's more customization-based viewpoint but GNOME is by FAR the best default UI I've ever seen. It's faster, smoother, more complete, and more simple/cohesive than Windows, Mac, Chrome, or any other Unix-like DE I've used.

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

@@MarianeSimas-lo6hn I see where you're coming from but I love the big buttons. Especially on a touchpad it helps with wrist comfort and preventing strain because you're not trying to click a tiny button restricted to the bottom of the screen. On keyboard/mouse setups I really don't mind, it's not like I'm trying to do anything else while I launch an application so its fine for it to take the whole screen. It just makes things easier to see.

[@bunnybird12]

I'm switching to Linux from MacOS once I get my Framework laptop in a few months. I use Amethyst on my mac so I'm a little tempted to go straight into a window manager on Linux- would love to see a window manager tier list!

[@Psoewish]

A tierlist about desktop environments while using a window manager, sounds about right :P I'd love to see a tierlist for wms honestly, that'd be pretty fun.

[@ferfromla]

I installed Cinnamon with Debian 12, and it is rock solid and stable. It provides everything I need. In the past I did lots of distro hopping, but I am over that. I just got tired of breaking things and the frustration of having to reboot or reinstall stuff. What I want now is something that just works and that I don't have to be updating every day. Debian 12 with Cinnamon gives me that.

[@catriona_drummond]

12 shades of grey. Why are they all grey? I really miss Aero Glass, it had contours, and depth, and buttons felt like buttons and UI elements would glow, so beautiful. Luckily I do have a soft spot for LXDE/LXQt, because it looks so retro - like Windows 2000. :P

[@cameronbosch1213]

KDE Plasma can do that.

[@nobody.watchin]

The newer GNOME 43+ releases have been really good to me personally, I only use a couple if extensions (AppIndicator & Vitals) but yeah I know what you mean when it comes to that. I'd recommend you give it another shot, the simplicity and emphasis on workspaces is really slick. I'm able to multitask really well with it, even on a laptop

[@fredashay]

I think it depends mostly on whether you prefer the Win 7 look (Cinnamon, KDE, Budgie, Mate), or the Mac look (Deepin, Elementary), or the old-school Linux look (Gnome, Unity, XFCE). Personally, I'd have made the video in 3 separate sections and rate Win7-like desktops, Mac-like desktops, and "other" desktops.

[@donkey7921]

Gnome does not install extensions through the browser anymore, it uses the extension manager app. (still has the web browser as an option though, I think)

[@disruptive_innovator]

I love these actually useful tier lists. Most of the time people make these things for topics and it's just, like, their opinion, man. Because you include new user perspective, what you prefer using and what has good long term use it IS actually helpful to someone jumping in and confronting a flood of options and opinions. Hope to see window mangers at some point. I'm poking at i3 currently.

[@skilz8098]

What's your take on "Dolphin" as a WM?

[@Vospi]

Just installed Debian Bookworm for the first time, with Cinnamon, following your guide (about "installing a proper way"). Battling my way through a multichannel soundcard, successfully so far. Getting ready for my first lamp stack installation. Have a nice day, bless you! Root login is way more snappier for me though, I wonder why. (Not gonna stick to it, just wonder what do I kill and remove.)

[@83RhalataShera]

is your user in the video group?

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

I did a similar install, and I want to like Cinnamon... but it's pretty bad for the games I've been playing. The stuttering I was getting in games with Cinnamon disappeared when I installed Gnome starting using it instead. I like the look and feel of Cinnamon and KDE, but they just aren't as performant in games (Cinnamon) or as stable (KDE) as Gnome.

[@kennybust]

​​@@ordinaryhuman5645i actually have a reverse experience with games, Linux Mint cinnamon has "more" FPS with proton in Risk of Rain 2 (24-30 fps) than any other distro I tried (8-15 fps). Because of this massive avg fps drop, I switched back to windows, unfortunately. There's many other issues also that made me switch.

[@epicnan1855]

my personal tier list would be: S: KDE, LXQt A: Cinnamon, GNOME, XFCE B: Unity, Mate, Deepin Haven't tried: all the other ones

[@fredio54]

What's the key to SAB?

[@fredio54]

What's the key to SAB?

[@epicnan1855]

@@fredio54 it's like a tier list

[@CUBKITS]

0:36 Usually it tends to be just my wife and I making the gooey, but if y'all wanna do it in small teams I won't judge, sounds fun.

[@JohnCastleSmokeless]

I'm still a noob; that means, of course, that I haven't tried but two DEs, GNOME and KDE Plasma. I like how much less complicated it is to customize Plasma, but I'm okay with GNOME. I've got it looking and functioning the way I want it to, and what more does a desktop environment have to do than that?

[@CoasterMan13Official]

Mate is a really good desktop. My personal favorite to add a plank dock to and modernize it with a couple of Pling themes like I always do.

[@dermond]

You don't install extensions from the browser anymore, that's on Gnome 3. On Gnome 40+ series you use the extensions app.

[@cameronbosch1213]

You mean Extension Manager.

[@dermond]

@@cameronbosch1213 indeed

[@limpa756]

Gnome is great for laptops, especially 2n1’s plus the pop shell has great tiling

[@Dekken__]

Exactly, would never use it on my desktop, but GNOME x Wayland on my work laptop is such a blessing.

[@Belomoh6]

It’s super buggy when i tried to install it on linux mint cinamon Does anyone know the reason or what should i do?

[@christiansmith2658]

​@@Belomoh6it's cause pop shell is abandonware. Pop is focusing on cosmic DE at this point

[@crankyfox]

I love KDE from a technical side, it is the only GUI to fully integrate GTK and QT properly without bullshit. But I hate it's performance. It's pretty slow. Enlightenment is pretty nice tbh. But you sacrifice all compatibility.

[@John7No]

I would still put KDE above the other 3 for the reason that xfce and cinnamon do not have Wayland support, and budgie is undeceive on what they want to do

[@tuckersguitarfiasco]

that is the reason why I like XFCE is because it doesn't support Wayland.

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

OTOH, I gave up on KDE a couple of weeks ago because it'd freeze up within a minute of logging in when the only thing I had opened was a web browser with a single tab open. Cinnamon has not done that to me yet.

[@John7No]

@@tuckersguitarfiasco not sure what this provides as a plus. Wayland is the future display protocol, and as soon as everyone moves to that, the sooner apps/services etc will get better.

[@John7No]

@@ordinaryhuman5645 If it did not worked for you (KDE) it did not. and if Cinnamon works it does. There is no correct or wrong. I had a similar experience with Cinnamon Mint 2-3 month ago actually :D. For the love of mew, I could not understand what was going wrong

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

@@John7No Yeah, maybe the KDE spin of Fedora was just not a good fit for my setup or something. Kind of a shame, because I liked it until it started freezing up on me. Cinnamon (with Debian or Mint) was consistently great for typical desktop usage, but not great for gaming. So far Gnome is the only one that seems to be stable and performs well with most of the games I play.

[@keenanblack3958]

KDE Plasma is my favorite DE, but I recently set up a home server on a very slow old Dell laptop with Alpine and decide to give SWAY WM a try. Having never used a window manager before, it definitely took a little time digging into config files and such, but I see why a lot of people prefer the aproach of building up a system that way; adding your bar and launcher of choice and adding only the utilities you want as opposed to being stuck with / cleaning up all the default tools that come along with a desktop environment. So far so good 👍🏻

[@sandorhazimihai]

I like gnome, the deepin is kinda borked on Arch, fedora with Gnome is nice but I agree it needs more polish. Maybe when the new version of plasma comes out or the cosmic from popos gets released, you can revisit them and let us know 😊

[@LautaroQ2812]

Actually broken. The prompt to put in a password is blurred out for some reason. Thank god I tried it in a VM first. At first I thought it was Debian not liking it, but on the Arch install it was also the same haha. Same for Budgie and Pantheon. They're pretty specific and unless you do a bunch of extra work to make it work like in their respective distros, is just not worth the hassle.

[@garowsa9818]

What disgrace to put Gnome lower then KDE, Windows bugs lover some sort. Gnome technically is best of all of rest presented desktop environments.

[@catoflado4977]

Is XFCE lightweight?

[@blastinnn]

Yes

[@flavvius]

Sometimes XFCE is heavier than KDE

[@josephnorris4095]

In 2008, I enjoyed using KDE and it worked quite well. In 2023, it is easy to break, even with just a theme change, it is unintuitive and down right confusing. GNome, on the other hand, it pretty straight forward and solid, overall, and typically does not break.

[@brianschuetz2614]

It's all a matter of preference. I tried Gnome and I did like the looks, but I didn't like it overall. It didn't feel intuitive to me. KDE on the other hand, I liked and it was easy to follow. Bear in mind, I recently moved from Windows, so that may be a factor. Gnome is so different from what I was accustomed to, that I didn't feel comfortable with it. KDE and Cinnamon, however, was easy to adjust to for me. I haven't had any trouble with KDE, but I don't go changing much.

[@-FAFO-]

I agree with the KDE stuff, they need to clean up and simplify some things. Sometimes options and things are nowhere that you'd expect them to be. I still daily drive it, but i agree with all of that.

[@rasix86]

kde is not heavy at all. It has actually been shown to be lighter than xfce several times

[@AlbertPaulMariLucero]

Man I'd love a wm tier list from you. You explain your experiences and knowledge on this software pretty well. If you ever do it I hope you include minimal hyprland compositors like sway and Hyprland. Here's to hoping!

[@macblink]

KDE was pretty, but indeed it felt unstable

[@gaucovyaero]

I'm currently running XFCE and I love it, but some things are just a teeny tiny bit visually inconsistent and/or buggy. Hoping to see a WM tier list soon.

[@Afsafs123]

I feel like Gnome is really a "love it or hate it" DE. I'm personally in the hate it category because it's just not my cup of tea. Probably the most polished of all the DEs, definitely the most cohesive. It's also the "standard" on Linux, if you can call it that. I'll probably run Cinnamon until X11 becomes a chore.

[@LaughingOrange]

I agree. I love Gnome, but at the same time I can see why other people hate it. It's different and the team has a vision of how they want it, but without extensions there is almost no customisability, and they aren't afraid to break extensions if it brings them closer to that vision.

[@hotmeal8531]

GNOME was one of the main reasons why I made switch from Windows to Linux with my laptop. I just love the workflow, look, and feel of it.

[@AchuCSGO]

same

[@pedrokatuniz8936]

Same here. I started off with KDE because i really liked all the customizations one could do, but in the end i did not get the work done faster. It took me quite a while to get used to gnome, but now i have the feeling i focus much more on what i actually do rather than using the trillion functionalities of KDE e.g.

[@notCAMD]

Did anyone notice that the "haven't tried" has ":3" emoji?

[@tailsorange2872]

Hi CTT, when are you and DT going to collaborate with LTT? That way, you can have a LTT/CTT/DT collaboration video

[@ChrisTitusTech]

Hehe I'm flying to Canada for LTX today... I'll ask Linus

[@kennybust]

​@@ChrisTitusTechBIG

[@tailsorange2872]

@@ChrisTitusTech CLTT Collaboration video is cool

[@lavantruong4467]

Could you suggest a desktop env that doesn't attempt to replicate the Windows and macOS interfaces, and is especially lightweight?

[@POINTS2]

Pretty accurate. KDE is almost GOAT. KDE has come a long way so maybe GOAT is in the future. GNOME has also come along way but by moving down the tier list. :) Budgie is good too and I almost migrated to it when Unity was EOL but I'm happy I went with KDE instead.

[@markh.6687]

Tried Cinnamon, seems great but it is a memory hog compared to KDE. Tried Budgie, but screen scaling wasn't good on my 16:9 1920 x 1080. XFCE still can't create individual custom folder icons after all these years, and is getting heavier on system resources every version. Running KDE 5.20 in MX Linux now, but screen scaling is still driving me nuts; maybe I need my eyes checked, or someone in the Linux Universe can explain with scaling is such a mess or outright missing in DEs.

[@cameronbosch1213]

Bro, 5.20 is REALLY OLD. You should probably upgrade the Plasma version!

[@markh.6687]

@@cameronbosch1213 Unfortunately MX Linux isn't supporting 5.26 or the new 5.27 in their current version; 5.26 is coming in the next MX version (just released TODAY). I hate trying to do unsupported DEs on my daily driver machine. And I'll let the dust settle on the new MX-23 before upgrading to it.

[@maxwellkjr]

Lol "It installs extensions through the browser", you clearly haven't used GNOME in a VERY LONG time, last I checked that's just one way of installing them. AND there's a flatpak Extension Manager that addresses all the issues you pointed out.

[@bosko-123]

Even tho I absolutely love GNOME(switched to it after years of using a window manager) your point is fair. The thing about GNOME is that it is really not meant to be used with a bunch of extensions(except a few, and also now GNOME is sort of moving to installing extensions trough flatpaks but that is way in the future). There is a specific philosophy and a way to use gnome in its purest form. Once you get used to it (for me at least) it is actually good. The problem with GNOME is that people try to use it as any other desktop environment with their past knowledge of Windows or Mac way of doing things. GNOME requires brief learning(honestly 15 minute video is enough) after which it is so easy to be a poweruser in it. Once you switch majority of your apps to be with gnomes philosophy you will start noticing that it all makes sense. But GNOME is not for everyone nor are window managers for everyone.

[@KanokYT]

Using core Debian with KDE and I've been really happy with it. Glad I decided simply go core Deb and use something I've always really liked, which was KDE. Just works and is very customizable. Highly recommend!

[@patricknelson]

Sounds like bliss. Rock solid reliable underlying OS and super customizable DE.

[@KanokYT]

@@patricknelson Yeah, it is. Very stable even on an older Ryzen laptop. Had to mess with C-States, but I found one that worked perfectly without going into full performance mode. Only had one freeze since I did that, but other than that, it's been smooth as silk. Can't go wrong with Debian, in my opinion!

[@TaikenUchida41]

The only thing I worry about with Debian is the risk of free driver compatibility issues with certain hardware (ô_ ô)

[@KanokYT]

@@TaikenUchida41 That's a fair concern. Although, some are being opened up more these days, but I can tell you, at least for me, there was only one piece of hardware I had to let go for Linux. A video capture device that I wasn't even using anymore, from Elgato. Other than that, it's been a great. A few dumps in the road due to older mesa drivers for gaming on Vulkan, but using Proton on Steam or Flatpaks has helped greatly to mitigate that.

[@TaikenUchida41]

@@KanokYT Yeah. I'm thinking of installing it on my old machine, so there shouldn't really be a problem as long as things are in line with where the system currently is. One question for you: is there a difference in the way Apt works with Ubuntu and Pop.OS compared to Debian?

[@barackuse]

I used to use KDE for years, but Cinnamon has been my go-to for the last three years.

[@gordon7478]

KDE is incredibly polished. All I can say is avoid the temptation to theme it too heavily. You can get to a point where it's next to impossible to go back to stock, and to unbreak what you broke 😅 Stock and unsullied? It's pretty stunning, and can be surprisingly performant, considering the amount of functionality hiding in there. GNOME 2 is the original goat though. R.i.p that's my homie *pours 40oz of OE 800*

[@darknightmike10yearsago]

Mate is pretty much a more up-to-date Gnome 2.

[@AhAh-g3n]

Hello I have a old laptop with 4 gb ram with window 8 or 10 i don't know and wiche should I take EndeavourOS XFCE, Linux Mint XFCE or Manjaro XFCE I want very customisable, minecraft, speed and fluidity

[@dweiss1]

I wonder where Enlightenment would fall in this list - if not at the bottom in the 'haven't tried' bucket? I have always been intrigued by this Windows Manager/Compositor/Minimal Desktop. It can be considered a full DE when paired with either Gnome or KDE apps. The videos I've watched about it lately have shown how feature rich it is when it comes to built-in customization. Maybe it will come up if/when Chris does a WM comparison.

[@grinsk3ks]

Why would you install gnome extensions via the browser, when you have an awesome extension manager?

[@AbdullahBRashid]

I am using infact using Gnome without any extensions. I just feel comfortable with it. I have tried KDE but it just has too many features for me to wrap my head around. I get lost using that DE more often than not. Gnome is simple and just easy to use. Though I would say a good tier list overall.

[@nietzschescodes]

The problem with Cinnamon is most of what they call "applets" don't work properly. For example their applet CPU frequency always has bug or freezes the computer and such for years now. They still offering it but they don't fix it. Gnome extensions have so many choices that you will find several that are working pretty well. Only problem is when you upgrade your system, sometimes you need to wait that those who are responsible for the extensions update their extension to the new gnome. LXDE is always solid. If you just need a basic DE, go with LXDE. That being said, Gnome with some extensions like dash to panel, arcmenu and a CPU controller is the GOAT. (NB I really dislike KDE. I have never tried Budgie, it looks pretty nice.)

[@cameronbosch1213]

LXDE is dead. LXQt is the successor of it. I really do like KDE Plasma; I don't understand the stability issues...

[@nietzschescodes]

@@cameronbosch1213 LXDE is not dead. Only Lubuntu has changed from LXDE to LXQt, it doesn't mean it is dead. LXLE still use it since it is built around that DE. Also Debian and Manjaro are offering LXDE as an option for a DE. I tried KDE, but was often buggy (and it seems many had that same experience) and honestly, it doesn't look solid and even aesthetically it looks a bit cheap. lol

[@petarpmobile]

Chris, can we please stop using the "old school" argument once and forever? Not all old things are bad by default. I personally am a MATE user and with some cautious use of Compiz and Emerald it gains some wow factor and it's perfect for my workflow. Years ago I jumped from Windows to Fedora Gnome 2 and was astonished from both Linux and the DE (who would have thought that doing the "Applications", "Places" and "System" separation is a God sent?). Lived through the Gnome 3 catastrophe, then moved to Mint because of MATE (great appreciation to the MATE team for their work). Tried WMs, other DEs and I always prefer the "old school" which still has quite the punch as a workflow organization and in case someone is looking for the WOW factor. I might admit though, Compiz is quite of a mess of settings for a new user. Takes some struggle to achieve smooth experience but once done, export the settings and have them forever as a file.

[@Sezamn]

but where are the Tiled Window Managers based desktop environments?

[@sokoloft3]

For the past couple years using linux I've always used xfce. However I'm moving more towards just having a window manager. As is with my xfce installs, I mainly only use keybinds. I tried KDE, thought I would like it but it does some things funky. Mainly the keybinds interface was strange with it. There was also a bug I encountered with it where moving window to the left bind would actually move it to the right side of the screen.

[@alaaxeldin]

Speaking out of my experience with KDE, it was the most stable, reasonably customizable without getting bricked and you can use it without customizing it and still looks good. It checks all of my requirements for a DE but it's not phenomenal for a specific requirement.

[@jeffreydurham2566]

I agree that there is not a perfect DE. I'm glad that there are choices to fit the different things that people like. I currently like how ZorinOS has adapted Gnome.

[@AdityaMehendale]

Essentially what you're saying is that skinning a desktop-environment upon Linux is like asking a fish to climb a tree - correct? What "swimming pool" might be better for the metaphorical fish? You already mention DWM + Hotkeys + CL - does this fit the bill?

[@trustedsource1273]

I love the desktop environment on any Linux Server. It has been pretty much the same since I started using UNIX 41 years ago. More size options nowdays than just 80x24, some lucky peole had a 132x24 screen. We invented dark mode! 😆😄 Especially clean look when using vi. No annoying prompts or menus in the way!

[@Minsc]

I use Cinnamon on Mint and it serves my simplistic needs well enough. The simplified theme options are more than enough customization for me. Since I have no real experience with other DE's I can not comment on them. In my limited experience, Cinnamon seems great for the casual Linux user who does not care about about all the deep customization more experienced users are so proud of.

[@TheMetaldudeX]

My experiencewith the DEs is why I never stick with Linux. I feel like all desktops look like they are made by fisher price or something. Like the off brand windows/Mac. Perhaps I need to sit down and figure out a timing window manager.

[@marck0060]

Windows XP would like to know your location.

[@markh.6687]

You can change the look of many Linux DEs to look like you want it; even Windows and Mac versions via themes.

[@markh.6687]

@@marck0060 I'm sitting down and facing front. -- Ted Stryker, Airplane!

[@JudasMugensson]

What about CDE(Common Desktop Environment)?

[@GeniusFreak]

Cool! Now do another one for gaming.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

Ubisoft launcher devil tier with Microsoft... Everything else is mid and then any games that doesn't have a launcher in God tier

[@GeniusFreak]

@@ChrisTitusTech Best Linux OS for gaming!

[@ussul6524]

Only I got hold was microsoft. I have on android phone app where I can invite plp into a game. Every time there is like over 8 char. name I am like MAN! This sucks. @@ChrisTitusTech

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

@@ChrisTitusTech Random H games downloaded from the internet are indeed God tier.

[@esaedvik]

@@ChrisTitusTech Ubi as a company is already on the shit list, so it's a no-go, same with Blizzard...

[@jrabbott34]

Nicely presented Mr. Titus. I do agree in that I like portions of desktops. I tend to hover in Arch with I3WM these days for the daily driver. My Goat would be Arch if I were placing.

[@jimkoutso2008]

My favourite DEs are KDE, Unity and LXQt. KDE for its huge customizabilty. Unity because of how skeuomorphic its is (and yes its still needs some polishing). LXQt because its good for toasters while also being quite customizable. MATE, Cinnamon and XFCE are fine but not really my interest. I hate GNOME with a burning passion. As for the others, idk i never bothered with them.

[@killcrb]

sorry if I'm making a mistake but chris put Gnome DE to dogwater category just because you can install extensions with your web browser? if thats the case , there is also an app that has the browse function built in the app so you dont have to switch between the app and your browser

[@rayjaymor8754]

10 years ago I would have been 100% Gnome and insulted anyone that used KDE. Those were good times. But have to agree Gnome hasn't improved in all that time and arguably it's gotten worse - whereas KDE you can really make your DE look absolutely sensational. If I want a "pretty" DE I go for KDE If I want barebones but functional then I go for Cinnamon or MATE.

[@Automata_Omega]

KDE is god tier, Titus, there's no perfect DE even windows has its flaws (windows 11 I'm looking at you), but dang it, KDE never let me down, yes it crashed once or twice, but that was because of my stupidity and ignorance of editing system files. Out of the box, it's just perfect

[@John14vs6_]

Wow I discovered KDE today thats why watching this. I will try it now. I'm a LXDE and xfce person, I hope I don't have any regrets on installing kde on my desktop

[@Automata_Omega]

@@John14vs6_ if you do it right you'll be good, though if you plan to install kde next to other DEs it was always a bad experience (not with kde, but miximg up DEs in general). I always suggested to everyone to do separate installs for the DEs they like, else they might end up with a messy qt and gtk combo. Since I'm a main KDE user myself, I use openSUSE Tumbleweed, because they natively have superb compatibility and support to one another

[@John14vs6_]

@@Automata_Omega wow I was having some issues trying to figure out how to change the brightness for my monitor was about to install xfce here but thank God I did not as you just mentioned it's not a good idea. I managed to download a third-party app and it work did not have do install anything. So wow I must say this is the best DE I have used I feel like I'm in windows or something more futuristic it's out of this world not even Gnome made me feel this way or windows 11. I will keep this DE and I hope I don't experience any more bugs especially when I install pyspark and other programming apps. I'm a Lxde lover by the way. Thanks for replying

[@useruser6240]

If all of these customizable so for example u can make KDE like gnome...so what is the point? I mean I go with lightest and customize it...or installing window manager or file explorer ,etc if it's not breaks.

[@luderx]

Gnome is honestly on laptops, nothing beats it. Also looks wise, its one of the prettiest DE's especially since Adwaita.

[@christopherdecker3830]

I like Cinnamon for its Windows 7 feel 😀.

[@borko.danilovic]

Try my new theme for Cinamon, "Win7-Tux-Noir" 🙂

[@SoulRollerFIN]

Customised KDE for me. GNOME is also great, though a bit too limited for my taste. Budgie experience was good too.

[@SDN1-ge4he]

Hi sir can i install fedora using ext4 without problems ??

[@LautaroQ2812]

Here we go again 🤣 Before jumping back to full Linux on bare metal, trying out VMs I tried Gnome to see if I could get into it. The tiling from Pop is actually pretty great. It's a minor thing that gives it like a refreshed taste. However, on "stock gnome" you can totally see that it's very polished and aimed at workflow, but that workflow is like what "they give you" (at least from the get go, surely you could customize it) and it was not my style. I've always been used to "opening programs in this desktop, switching to desktop 2 to open these other programs". And the flow of Gnome in multitasking was kinda shit (subjective opinion!). Also, I didn't know about the exploits and security things yet I still felt it was really odd that they make you install an extension and install things through browser. Also to customize it a bit further you had to mess with themes and a whole list of things. I was like this is too much for just too little and something that doesn't matter much (function wise). So I stuck to my trusty KDE. I need to finish setting it up but oh man... it's like playing end-game mmorpgs with your DE. It's fantastic. And I can adjust every little thing for my personal use, taste and flow. At the end of the day I wouldn't put any DE in "Goat". Unless KDE goes a full cycle without adding things and just bug fixing to make it the most polished and stable, all DEs have cons that really take them down or put them up 1 level because of it.

[@JakeSwett]

KDE is basically in that cycle right now actually - feature freeze is in place, no new features, only bug fixes until the 6.0 release

[@LautaroQ2812]

@@JakeSwett Fantastic!

[@aysbg]

I switched to Linux, Debian, back in 2007 from Win Vista but in early 2010 I fully switched to Mac OSX, been using it from 2008 when I bought MBP for the first time. I have been considering switching from Mac Studio to custom pc with a linux distro… Debian with deepin? Or what would you guys recommend?

[@markusTegelane]

KDE is actually lighter than Gnome Just to give you an idea, KDE is usable on 2GB of RAM, while Gnome really isn't

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

Unless something changed since the last time I checked, Plasma is actually a little lighter than Xfce in some cases too.

[@darknightmike10yearsago]

Yeah. Plasma 5 is a little lighter on RAM usage than Gnome, but it's a bit heavier on the CPU. It doesn't run as well on really slow CPUs. Tested using CPU autofreq at 800 MHz.

[@vasudevmenon2496]

I was going back and forth with GNOME and xfce for nearly 10 years and finally tried cinnamon on Debian edition which impressed me with polish and intuitiveness.

[@Praxss]

Personally i will put gnome in good category and kde in dogwater 😂

[@ChrisTitusTech]

😂 It's funny that those always are the opposite. You are either a kde or gnome person.

[@TheMetaldudeX]

Agree. Every time I use kde I have issues. If I don’t customize gnome too much it’s usually fine for the most part. However kde on Opensuse tumbleweed has been great for me lately.

[@heberarnold1014]

Hyprland(i use it with dotfiles) counts?

[@Jaabaa_Prime]

Gnome is also "Dogwater" because you HAVE to install extensions to get an "acceptable" desktop experience. More of the functionality from the "required" Gnome extensions belong in the standard experience.

[@anonymous_opinions1924]

I disagree personally, I use plain GNOME and I don't think I personally know anyone who wouldn't be completely fine with it. I know people like yourself exist and I respect that - GNOME definitely isn't good for you as you said. But for the vast majority of users, it's a very smooth, complete, cohesive experience.

[@D.u.d.e.r]

Thx a lot for the vid Titus, another excellent one!

[@sprinklednights]

I don't use a desktop environment anymore, but when I used one, it was either Xfce, Cinnamon, or GNOME. These are my favourite desktop environments, but I still agree that there are shortcomings with each of them.

[@sprinklednights]

@@akshabakov Not for everything

[@glooom]

HI @Chris, Would you be able to recommend which option is the best for learning purposes? I'm using the free oracle tier machine on arm. There are few images > I installed the ubuntu but its not great from speed. I would prefer kde I think from what you showed here. Would you recommended which one would be best on the options in the free tier? There is Oracle / Ubuntu / Red hat / Almal / rocky. thanks

[@juap]

MacOS for me

[@User-zy5io]

😎

[@Graeme_Lastname]

I can't get system sounds from mint & xfce. I know it can be done but I've never found anything that works on my system. It's a pain. 😃

[@brotherthegrest]

Titus losing fans due to the tier lists and not caring

[@asanjuas]

What happens to trinity here?

[@JasonParmenter]

Even if you dislike GNOME it's not "dogwater", it's at least average.

[@bonbonpony]

07:20 I'm very curious what would be your PERFECT desktop environment that you would put on the GOAT tier without any hesitation. How would it look like, how would it work, what features would it need to have, etc. Because I very often see people complaining about existing solutions, but they rarely talk about their dream solutions. Which makes me think that this might be the reason that such dream solutions don't exist yet - because no one is dreaming about them :q

[@tuckersguitarfiasco]

Finally a tier list that isn't so controversial.

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

Gnome being dogwater? That seems backwards to me - it's the only DE I've used so far that consistently works and handles games well, even if it's pretty barebones with features/customization out of the box.

[@lauriekimani]

Controversial is gnome ranking lower than deepin,lxde and lxqt

[@lauriekimani]

​@@ordinaryhuman5645gnome for me ranks as high or higher than kde.

[@cameronbosch1213]

My controversy is Cinnamon being so high on the list when there's no work being done on Wayland support or fixing their applets.

[@skraegorn7317]

XFCE was my first, it’s got a special place in my heart for that and also because Chicago95 is just so good.

[@crusty_breads]

XFCE & GNOME are my top two. (get your GNOME extensions from your distro's repos and you should be safe) KDE is gorgeous, but it always seems to break on me. I'll give nods to Budgie and LXQT. The rest don't matter to me.

[@notapplicable2636]

Do you have any ideas on how to make my laptop (mx 13 from 2016ish) to make the built in wifi chipset work without having to use the non free drivers..?