Titus Reacts to Linus Tech Tips Linux Daily Drive Challenge

[@ChrisTitusTech]

Original LTT Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmaTZ6x6iMyIba8 Follow Video from there next parts: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJmVhqCBich2nKM

[@fl0wedm612]

I recommended ArchTitus in the comments on that vid

[@cryptearth]

sorry for spam - but I just hate to see content creators "abuse" the "it was once a bug" to pin their own comments for some stuff that actually belongs into the video description ... but hey, guess it's "guideline" pretty much about everyone follows ... is this in the current YT guides as recommended? jeez ... this should had been fixed before it went that viral

[@truthislam6481]

This is good! Do it again please.

[@Danielddiniz]

I’d like you to always do reaction videos on their series

[@SnowyRVulpix]

@@cryptearth people don’t seem to read video descriptions. Pinning it makes sense

[@lovely-shrubbery8578]

As much as I love the CLI, there's really no excuse for the GUI package managers to be as crappy as they are

[@eksekyot]

@@tomjoad6993 its slow af

[@colebermudez9706]

The only reason I have pamac installed is for the update indicator icon. Makes it easier to see exactly what packages have updates. I use arch btw

[@mi2-c035]

YaST, Synaptic, Solus pkg manager, there are some great exceptions. Although yeah I'd agree many Linux distros desperately need to fix GUI package managers and suggesting new users to use the CLI is never a solution.

[@stephenkamenar]

the cli is what uninstalled his desktop anyway. there's no winning on linux

[@somnia3423]

@@stephenkamenar nope he uninstalled it himself^^, the terminal even warned him. linux let you do dumb fucking stuff

[@hamsterwolf]

I honestly hope that Linus's video series causes some real change in the Linux community so we can have better new user experiences.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

I agree, this is a perfect example of new user interaction and roadblocks they encounter. I love Linus for doing it this way.

[@royshapiro2763]

@@ChrisTitusTech Unless said change is like GNOME trying to fight theming in the name of "unified platform". No, please, no. (And yes, the issue is actually quite complex and there are valid arguments for their actual standpoint. I'm talking very-very generally here).

[@AcidiFy574]

Only on the just-works distros

[@akza0729]

@@royshapiro2763 Here is my understanding. They are separating GTK styles and adding it to GNOME. Coz GTK is supposed to be cross platform. So Libadwaita is born. Hard coded. And it'll get a Coloring API that can change accent and colors but it wont be as flexible as now. But I think user can still override it. Hopefully.

[@420jahlion]

complaining about not being able to play windows games is not going to change anything. you need to force aaa game companies to make the games to also install into Linux. his big problem is he wants it to be put a disk in and play for. its like why cant i play a ps5 game in a xbox? i use open suse it works amazing and the package manager is super ez. YAST for the win.

[@ppiittii]

I vividly remember Linus' live stream when they started fimling these. The comments were full of "amazing, we [the linux community] love to help you when you have trouble" and not even 10 seconds after Linus pointed out a flaw in the GUI, the comments were full of "that's just user error, if you don't know anything why are you doing this"

[@realtechhacks]

Like, really. It's terrible, this is 90% on Pop!_OS. No end user should have to deal with this. As Linus Torvalds said many times: "Don't break user space"

[@glahtiguy]

@@realtechhacks Someone on WAN show today told Linus that since he isn't a contributor to the project he has no right to complain about anything in the distro. Which more or less sums up my experiences trying to use linux, and the community around it.

[@realtechhacks]

@@glahtiguy Yeah, I heard that, absolutely ridiculous. It's like saying that just because you're not a member of congress you can't complain about the government.

[@softwarelivre2389]

@@glahtiguy that's absolutely frequent and when I see it, I just think on how ignorant the person saying this shit really is.

[@softwarelivre2389]

And to be fair, he should have read those warnings before running anything on the terminal. It is assumed that someone using the terminal knows what he is doing at least to the point of reading the text displayed, which was full of useful warnings telling Linus not to proceed with that.

[@HugoHobertson]

That was actually fun to watch, because unlike in other people's reaction videos, you only put in the parts where you actually had something to say.

[@Anamewhowasnottaken]

100% agree

[@JuicyJoseph11]

Agreed

[@sriramsridhar761]

Yeah

[@Daniel_WR_Hart]

@@Boxish Yea I was surprised that H3H3 won their lawsuit against that weird parkour guy way back, because if you watched the whole reaction video, then you've pretty much seen the original video too. It doesn't have the same feel to it because of the constant interruptions, hence making it "transformative", but I don't know why anyone would want to watch the original if they already saw full a reaction to it.

[@namesurname4666]

@@Boxish depends, it is better if you haven't watched the original video but you should always watch the original first

[@TheJackiMonster]

I think Linus video pretty much shows that there's still a lot of work which needs to be done getting the GUI for package management to an acceptable state. When I started using Arch I completely stopped using GUI to install anything but I don't think that's just the solution. Developers need to fix this for Linux getting more usable to the masses.

[@mariozenarju6461]

Using both GUI and command line is the golden middle, because there will never exist a GUI for *everything* Linux is capable for. Crucial stuff are automated on the kernel side, everything else is a matter of a bit of knowledge and luck. That's just how it always worked, how it works, and how it will always work. And to me personally, that's not an issue. I never liked not being informed about the guts of my software, anyway With all of that, devs, just please make your distro stable

[@theairaccumulator7144]

@@mariozenarju6461 that's also how windows works, except everything is welded togheter and sloppily glued to a terrible UI.

[@mariozenarju6461]

@@theairaccumulator7144 Yep, so why change a thing that works perfectly for it's purposes

[@Nord_Kitten]

I switched to linux and found the complete reliance on the terminal to be one of the more frustrating things about it, I'm a very visual learner so just blindly copy pasting stuff in the terminal actually hinders me from learning whats going on. But the thing that killed linux for me was trying to mod a game, vortex was 100% broken on lutris and it was mostly broken on the alternatives that i had to hunt for. once i did get it working i ran into a storage issue, and then another issue, and another until i just realized that i would be spending days getting this working when literally on windows i need to press install and download mods. and its not worth nexus time to make it easy on linux because an insanely low number of users where even trying to use vortex so it was just never going to get as easy as it is in windows.

[@KookoCraft]

@@Nord_Kitten skill issue

[@atmankost3261]

I really appreciated your 'criticism' as you didn't tear them down, but appreciated their efforts as one individual with little to no experience, and someone that had brief past experience, and even praised them for their efforts. Good job!

[@colortreo]

I totally agree with this. It was very fair and balanced and even offered good expansion on ways to teach more methods.

[@Kyle_116]

Linus acknowledges that using the terminal is a valid - and lot of times better - option for Linux users, but he said that he was trying to do this challenge as a completely casual, non-tech savvy user. He wanted to use the same methods that the general masses will use, which is a demographic of people will either never want to use the terminal or have no clue how to use the terminal. They want and expect everything to work in the GUI.

[@spooky3669]

A completely casual, non-tech savvy user should be smart enough to First Watch a Video on how to install Linux and Follow that Guide!!!

[@bocahdongo7769]

@@spooky3669*6-24 hours course to become Linux graduate*

[@shortscouture1]

@@spooky3669ah yes only to be lead by a 10 hour long rundown of trying to install gentoo

[@hyperturbotechnomike]

@@spooky3669 the problem is that the average beginner also doesn't know which sources to watch. There are a lot of questionable guides on YT and the rest of the interwebs.

[@uaQt]

Non savvy but decides to do it anyway when it literally says "do not do this unless you know exactly what you are doing"

[@justins7796]

App stores in all the distros feel like an abandoned Sears from 2005

[@_invencible_]

it's almost like that's not the linux way of doing things. come on, fight me.

[@_invencible_]

@Connor Bensyl i'm not saying it shouldn't be done. It would be grade to have an enterprise grade linux distro where everything could be done from the GUI and all packages are tested and stable and nothing ever breaks but come on, who's gonna do all that work knowing that no matter how hard you try no distro will ever be perfect?

[@tonymarcuscassani9465]

@@_invencible_ Ever heard of Red Hat? come on man...

[@_invencible_]

@@tonymarcuscassani9465 are you talking about RHEL or Fedora? Fedora isn't bad at all, but i don't think someone like linus would like the vanilla gnome experience

[@Verpal]

@@tonymarcuscassani9465 Red hat is actually profitable.... you won't want to bring up the idea of profit in linux community right? Dev are suppose to work for free and get paid in ''exposure''.

[@swagar]

I won't lie: back when I was new to Linux, trying to install something that had dependency conflicts and just telling apt to do it anyway and hosing my install-- is absolutely something I did. Twice.

[@joshuapritchard575]

lol twice ... up your game i can remember a few times in the early days when i would manage to break an install 6 ot 7 times due to package issues ... each time inn a slightly deferent way ... and then it happened again recently when I went back to my first love (Slackware) for the first time in a while

[@duranarts]

Lmao why go through the trouble. Same goes for every Linux user out there I guess.

[@swagar]

@@duranarts At least when I nuked a Linux install, it was always my own fault, and I eventually learned what not to do. Windows was haunted and stopped working for no apparent reason.

[@ThePelican12]

@@swagar lol, barely learned how to use linux last year due to class requirements. (was getting a crash course on servers, both windows and linux). Talk about 20 or so students just nuking their linux in weird ways, and 3 of the linux pros just trying not to pull their hair out helping everybody. And yes, i screwed up my initial instal by accident with that. Found some commands that helped prevent that issue in the future. At least somewhat. Still learning everything.

[@swagar]

@@Disrupterds Did you respond to the wrong comment or something? I wouldn't be using apt if I was building from source. dpkg, maybe, but even it wouldn't be complaining about dependencies and removing things if I wrote my own package. Dependency conflicts happen constantly in Debian derivative distros, and even in vanilla Debian if you're using testing/unstable/experimental, and truthfully it's one of the reasons I switched to Arch. I don't consider Windows superior because of it, not even slightly. But it is a pitfall when you're starting out. All it takes is for one package maintainer to screw up, and when you use a derivative distro, you have multiple points of failure there.

[@benarcher372]

As much as I love Linux, and I have been using it on and off for +25 years, I would never, ever, recommend it to someone not genuinely interested. Just let them stay at Windows or Mac. Life is short.

[@sunnibird]

Exactly. I've wasted enough time on it. If I want to play games I'll use the PS5.

[@ezramiller8296]

Very true. If I knew how much time I would waste on installing Gentoo or BSD, I would have stopped doing so.

[@deeznuttes9340]

or maybe have some distro's that are actually user friendly instead of claiming to be user friendly

[@NathanWilkie]

It'd be really cool if at some point you could recommend one of the distros (I don't see this happening). That's where I think business model adjustments could help maybe similar to fedora but for the "filthy casuals."

[@lePoMo]

​@@deeznuttes9340 You have a skewed view. User-friendlyness is in the eye of the beholder, it depends on what you use your computer for. Linux is well suited for users that need user-friendliness the most. Those that use browser, some common apps, an office suite, and off the shelve hardware. No mess with having to download programs from websites to install or update them. Stay on the beaten path and linux is more userfriendly to a noob than windows. Go off the beaten path and you're confronted with more freedom = including the freedom to break anything, and less friends/relatives who can help you out. Unfortunately, gaming is already off the beaten path. Mainly because installing games and apps that the developer didn't intend to work on linux is a challenge on any platform.

[@CK637]

"I bet that, at the end of this, Luke will have a lot better of an experience than Linus" As someone who watches WAN Show, I know where they both stand in the challenge now because the videos take a while to produce and publish. Oh how right you are.

[@messagedeleted1922]

I agree with them both. Linus is me when I deal with linux problems. Luke is me when linux works.

[@enzonenation]

Straight up Luke has been having such a great time haha

[@realtechhacks]

Luke has the advantage of having used Linux every day for 2 years.

[@CybernerdShua]

I love how Chris is so understanding here. It's not "Oh, why would you do that?! You're dumb!" like I've seen on a couple other reactions but rather "Yeah, I made a lot of these same mistakes early on" or "That was a bug, it's not really your fault." It's super refreshing to see people who are civil and understandimg about this stuff.

[@ПростойЧеловек-к8г]

Yeah this is literally unique!

[@KleptomaniacJames]

Yeah but fr Linus went full retard on this one.

[@mgtow-extraits]

17:37 "i made a lot of the same mistakes" and yet, no linux dev ever bothers to try fixing it for the end user. if users keep making the same mistakes, then devs are doing it wrong!

[@AnotherCasualViewer]

I dont think code developers want non-pro's in the community. It's a status thing.

[@awen4784]

@@AnotherCasualViewer yeah i just dont get that mindset thought

[@redspade2303]

@@AnotherCasualViewer It's an elitist thing. No way related to status.

[@emiliskog]

@@redspade2303 elitism is literally status related, my status is so much higher than yours that I don't want you near me

[@etopowertwon]

@@redspade2303 It's more about laziness than about elitism. Making good UI with helpful tooltips, i18n, fool proofing it, making sure it plays well with other software, checking for corner cases takes a lot of time. Developers know these corner checks, they are more interested in adding new shiny features or work at other projects rather than to spend literally weeks to implement safeguard they will never encounter

[@doomelements4679]

I watch both of yours and Linus' channel, and love both of your work. Regarding what you mentioned about installing software via GUI, do remember that Linus' efforts are supposed to represent the average Window techie out there that's considering Linux. Everything should work via the GUI, unless it is some form of obscure settings that 99.9% of the users will not use.

[@SankoshSaha_01]

Well explain this to the people who are shouting with their ears closed

[@wweeks]

I did typed this comment with a keyboard. This is a real criticism of Linux. It is maintained by users that prefer the keyboard

[@nanoprehistoric]

I never use GUI installer because the progress bar sometimes doesn’t work lol, it’s unfortunate because majority of people will prefer GUI.

[@1pcfred]

Abandon all hope ye Windows users who enter Linux. You will find no refuge here!

[@l4kr]

I think normies should definitely learn the most basic commands since that's the superiority of linux. It way faster to be like "sudo apt install spotify" than to go on a web, search everywhere for the download, download it, open the exe files, click through the installer, and after some time youre finish So tell me, how is GUI faster or easier in this case?

[@KingKevin108]

First time on the channel, enjoyed your take on it. I do have to admit it's funny to hear a Linux user say "I would just use the Terminal" because that's exactly what Linus calls out as "what will be said and what isn't an acceptable answer for the average end user"

[@pleasedontwatchthese9593]

Linux has thing where its made by developers so it ends up being what they want a OS to be. Since Linux is made by just random developers unless there is a normal user who somehow happens to be able to make UI I don't see Linux ever changing unless their is finical incentives like the smartphone market.

[@deanolium]

The thing is that whilst, yes, the Terminal is really a dangerous place to be, it's pretty much the main reason to get a Linux machine. The GUI stuff is always clunky and a more raw experience than OSX or Windows. So beyond ethical reasons, the main strength of Linux is the terminal. Of course, OSX also has a very similar terminal which diminishes this a bit, but that's a whole other argument. So to say that a big part of the Linux userbase shouldn't use the terminal is pretty much eliminating the point of using Linux over Windows.

[@michaeljensen8586]

It is also "unacceptable"/a bad thing as a professional and experienced user. The DE should be a complete environment to work with things and to fix things. It might even be done by "text" communication as long as it is an integrated experience with the user interface.

[@pleasedontwatchthese9593]

@@deanolium I think Linux has other pros than the terminal and ethical. Its also free and fast which is the main reason I run it. But I do think about it as a power user thing and not for the every day joe

[@kinggooktheautistickingewg788]

​ @PleaseDontWatchThese The everyday joe can barely use Windows without breaking shit or having their edge toolbar filled with "freeware". Normies are and will remain shit at tech and no amount of UI coddling/dumbing down will ever change that because they have zero curiosity to learn anything at all. All the UI dumbdown does is make it harder for tech support to help because the settings you do need to have a look at are buried under a mountain of crap.

[@katnerd6712]

You're safe on any strikes from Linus, Chris. He's gone on record as saying he'd only strike something if it took one of his videos, wholecloth, and posted it without adding anything to it. Basically he'd only strike a re-posting. Safe to say you added a great deal to it and you didn't even post the beginning or the end of the video :P

[@thopkins2814]

Terminal/Command Line is great if you know what you are doing, but Linus and Luke were coming at it from a new linux user's perspective. A new linux user wouldn't have the experience to know what to do in the Terminal. So, I completely understand why they are using the GUI.

[@YKSGuy]

In a desktop environment you shouldn't have to drop to CLI to just install basic apps like games. Also the linux community likes to post "just run this in terminal" as the solution to noobs all over forums without explanation.

[@sunnibird]

@@YKSGuy I have felt this pain :(

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

@@YKSGuy while it isn't that hard, since most tutorials, handbooks or community posts have the necessary commants literally quoted anyways. 2nd I don't get Linus' problem, b/c there was a BIG FAT WARNING he just declined to pay attention and went with "yes, do as I say". And Linux does. And Linus was sad...

[@glahtiguy]

I run one Linux machine, my headless server. Runs Plex, a little mumble server, and a minecraft server. For that, it is better than windows... once you get it setup. I f'ing HATE messing with it because it's all CLI and the terminal is a mess. "Just use these arguments" ok.. is that arguments with a / or a - or a --, or just a space because it seems like it changes randomly and is never the same between programs. "RTFM n00b!"" is the usual response I get. If I have to refer to the manual for every single program to use it to do the basic thing it is for, someone messed up here and it wasn't me.

[@scoreunder]

@@YKSGuy terminal stuff you can just copy/paste. I don't know why people prefer 13-step "click here then here then here then here ..." guides instead. Also you don't need to use the terminal normally. It's just a lot easier to help someone by giving them a terminal command that works on 99% of linux distros rather than try to guide them through their specific distro's GUI.

[@marlonese]

I've been slowly getting into Linux over the past few weeks and if there's one thing that's bugging me, it has to be the community. There's so much hate and negativity and arrogance in the Linux community which makes it really hard to get into for beginners and noobs like me and that's kinda sad.

[@GeezerDust]

Don't worry about what the arrogant jerks think. Linux is an enjoyable and useful thing to learn. Just remember, in a few years when you have mastered the subject, don't be like them, and be kind/helpful to others coming up.

[@mattymerr701]

It's nice when you find the good people. There's a Tobias in the fedora chats who basically just spends all day helping everyone. Really quality. But then when you go into those asynchronous, non-community focussed spaces like forums and reddit, you'll just find they are absolutely full of toxicity

[@stagdragon3978]

I think the most terrifying experience for me so far was actually IRL. I was at a D&D cafe, a perfect location for nerdy gathering things, and when I was there I saw a sticker of Xenia, and the Arch logo on this one chick's laptop. So I go over and I'm casually like "hey, nice Arch, and Xenia stickers." And I shit you not she looked up, glared at me, and growled like an animal.

[@encycl07pedia-]

​@@stagdragon3978 Maybe it has nothing to do with you mentioning Arch and it's actually because you like My Little Pony and/or dressing up like a non-human animal.

[@stagdragon3978]

@@encycl07pedia- You mean a humanoid animal. Also I don't think they were aggressive because of that. Have you even seen the other Linux mascot, Xenia?

[@jonathanellis6097]

Clicking something in the app store should just work. Steam should have installed without having to even touch the command line. If any distro of Linux is ever going to see wide spread adoption, stuff like what Linus experienced should be flat out impossible. Sitting laughing as a smug Linux expert is exactly the kind of reaction that allows Windows to continue to dominate.

[@etaxalo]

And also the millions of dollars worth of deals Microsoft is doing with companies to sell the computers with windows.

[@joel3399]

I'm a Windows user and I also laughted an Linus bricking his pc while installing Steam 😂 He is a content creator and his videos are meant to be entertaining, this is not a war

[@coldfever94]

To be fair, microsoft store is a buggy mess and is horrendous to deal with. I usually go ahead and install an app from the apps site or use ninite or chocolaty. Looking back I almost failed an exam in university because windows 10 was very adamant about installing an update and saturating the hard drive io that I couldn't do anything, it wasn't even responding to closing the updates services and the group policies. Still daily driving windows 10 but it is still a nightmare, right clicking on desktop takes 2 seconds for forks sake.

[@coldfever94]

Not to mention that I was forced to do a clean reinstall of windows because the store was bugging out and not letting me BUY something. Such a mess.

[@sunnibird]

@@joel3399 Definitely not a war. That would be the equivalent of a skinny pig (hairless guinea pig) taking on the Axis powers.

[@FBHSswimmer2006]

I liked this react video, Chris. I would love to see you and LTT collab on a project in the future.

[@nikkolast19]

would love to see Chris collab react with Anthony from LTT 🙂

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

@@nikkolast19 amazing! 👍

[@sol_mental]

Linus Tech Tips meets Chris Titus Tech to Try a Tempting Tech. It would be quite a tremendous video!

[@filiecs3]

Even as someone who uses Linux quite often, I accidentally formatted my installation drive right after installing when I was trying to format my installation media. It's very easy to make devastating mistakes in Linux, and backups are completely necessary.

[@mistymu8154]

"If you want a good experience in Linux, don't use Nvidia and don't use GoXLR" - and that right there is one of the problems with Linux on the desktop. You cannot expect people to change their GPU and audio just for a good experience with Linux. Also using Terminal as a preferred method of installing apps is not a solution. For all the improvements, Linux is still a mess and it will take a lot more work for the average user base to move over to Linux. Even software developers who are largely on Mac's, will take a lot to switch.

[@thomasphillips885]

Hopefully the GoXLR guys will start supporting Linux then. It's entirely on them

[@devaraft]

Yea it's very alarming to recommend someone "oh just buy this hundreds dollar product" so that someone can play audio

[@Vectrex-xd6qi]

So when Nvidia isn't helping the Linux-community to get things right; What is your solution? Wipe all of Linux from Earth since Nvidia doesn't work properly? I guess Linux could take a hard stance and rebuild Distros to flat out refuse to install if a Nvidia-card is detected.That is one way to go.

[@devaraft]

@@Vectrex-xd6qi your average people doesn't give a shit who supports who. At the end of the day they just want their things to work right away like it's supposed to. If it can't then the OS is pretty much useless for them. Your way is basically begging people to not use Linux

[@swagar]

Bit of a tall order to expect a free OS to support any random hardware you throw at it. It's easy to complain that the GoXLR won't play nice on Linux, but no one wants to actually spend the effort to reverse engineer it.

[@CrazedPerformanceRepair]

Your reactions are exactly mine🤣 as a daily Linux guy with much less knowledge it surprised me to see that. You caught the removing the desktop thing though, I missed that part. Yes please do a react on the next one too. This is fun as heck to watch theses guys take the same journey we all have. Perhaps this will be good for the community to bring awareness as to what needs to change in the Linux systems. They really do need to be more beginner friendly. I think a good place to start is the GUI package manager after this.

[@lesath7883]

Thank you. Yes, I agree there should be a more user-friendly route to get our toes wet in Linux. Not saying ALL of Linux should be dumbified. Just give us two distros, one that works more like Mac and one that works more like Windows.

[@leonidas14775]

Pop OS seems to give install scripts too much latitude in how they can alter the system. i.e. It should be possible to install steam with User privileges and not have it destroy system files in the process.

[@tihomirrasperic]

such beginner mistakes happen for two reasons a) arrogance (I know everything and I don't read what the system returns as messages) b) tries to have fun while filming the show and the focus is on the camera and not on what it should be doing

[@hugoantunesartwithblender]

But why it made a hard reset?

[@LisaBucet]

@@tihomirrasperic No, the terminal throws a wall of text at you. Most of which a beginner cannot easily parse; So you skip over it, missing the seemingly obvious warnings and naively assume it will do what you want. And the "Yes, do as I say" only has stopping power once you know it's not normal and also not just being weird. I could see myself doing the same, when I started using linux. And I still may brick my system by doing similar things in the future. To some extent it's a matter of knowing which parts you can just try and which you need to research and be careful around.

[@_MrSnrub]

The flower icon is Lakka, which hilariously is a Console style OS that has native emulators to play old games. I use that on my PI as an Old School 8/16 bit console emulator. Its actually great for a couch OS.

[@phrtao]

Are we going to spend the next month seeing all the Linux KZbinrs reacting to LTT videos. I want to see Anthony Young reacting 🤣

[@sandipdaw5023]

That's how you get views in a way if you think 🤷

[@qwerasdfhjkio]

@@sandipdaw5023 tbh I don't mind, this challenge seems to have come out pretty entertaining

[@gamerking64]

Im pretty sure that new channels will be created just for reacting to linus...im joking but seriously linus linux series will be really important to us and to the linux ecosystem, and expecting more linux channels in the future!

[@phrtao]

100 likes - that a record for me by a factor of 10 !!! I am enjoying this LTT feature and the buzz it is creating

[@1pcfred]

I hope so. I might even watch Distrodweeb if he does a react.

[@greene7700]

If the Linux community wants to have a "noob friendly" distro then they need to make one with the goal of making the CLI nearly redudant/ minimize the usage of the CLI. Make an Actual GUI with an acceptable UX.

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

Why? The CLI is even usefull in Windows10 and it is not even by far redundant....

[@MJ-uk6lu]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver Why? CLI is really not needed in Windows for like 99.9% of users. Really, we ended business with CLI after DOS era. Nobody cares about it, if there's a decent GUI.

[@comicsans1689]

@@MJ-uk6lu Windows CLI sucked before Powershell was introduced.

[@ilovefunnyamv2nd]

and the sign that it was successful. the linux community doesn't need to say "just ask us and we'll help you in forum xyz" because nothing needs to be asked. the gui should be intuitive, with a clear getting started guide, and more detailed information available from the help or about buttons.

[@fluffythebunnyslayer20]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver because most people hate the CLI. Including me. And I work in technology.

[@OfficialSamuelC]

It’s nice that you’re not being straight up combative and negative about how they went about using it. I was kind of expecting that but I’ve never come across this channel before. It was nice to hear Linux users agree that actually it isn’t as simple as die hard Linux fans make it out to be and that Linus and Luke are exaggerating 100% of the time.

[@cyjan3k823]

I really like how his face went from happy to "oh no" when this warning about steam showed up and then terminal with command to delete everything was on the screen. And "oh no" in rather friendly way, like pls no

[@pleasedontwatchthese9593]

I kind of wished Linus from LTT stopped approaching everything with a negative combative tone. There will always been fanboys who are annoying. Though there are many users like the one who made this video that know what is really going on and are reasonable.

[@kendarr]

Chris is super nice and understands that not everyone is a Linux expert lol

[@nil3010]

Good or bad it definitely going to increase exposure of Linux to masss Atleast people will now know WTF LINUX LOOKS LIKE IN 2021

[@dappermuis5002]

Also the devs of these distros, which can be applied to others, will get some feed back that they may help them see what everyday users that are not technical may face. Thereby it will hopefully improve the user experience for everyone.

[@nil3010]

@@SicariusGaming87 better than ? A black command line right ?

[@nil3010]

@@dappermuis5002 absolutely feedback That will be a very important note take on I bet devs will be checking on comments and post

[@yinyinaye6045]

@@SicariusGaming87 You can customize it whatever the heck you want to look like

[@yinyinaye6045]

@@SicariusGaming87 You can customize it whatever the heck you want to look like

[@melty4204]

So, I'm just a guy who got recommended this video after watching line's video. I have never even touched Linux. the only OS's I have ever used extensively are windows and android. So all of this is from that point of view. It seems like a lot of Linux users don't understand the purpose of this challenge. You see, there are a lot of us normie scrubs that use their computers mostly for gaming and working with mainstream software who are frustrated with our dependency on Windows due to Microsoft's constant missteps and general shenanigans. And there has been a lot of interest in Linux as a possible alternative especially considering valve's constant push to make Linux viable for gaming. And that's the point of this challenge, to evaluate how difficult it would be for an average windows user to switch to Linux. Not because they want to use Linux, but because they don't want to use windows. And it's astonishing to me seeing just how catastrophically Linux crashes and burns at this task. But even more astonishing is how so many Linux users don't seem to recognize this. "Distribution doesn't matter, you have to customize it" That's a ridiculous thing to ask an average user to do. "Use AMD instead of nVidea" "You can't use GoXLR" I realize that this isn't Linux's fault but not being able to use industry leading hardware is a massive problem and "use something else" is not a solution. "In the Linux community you're going to piss somebody off anywhere you step" It sure seems like it and that's not ok, people shouldn't be complacent to that kind of toxic behavior. Also, just in general just cause you can do something with the terminal doesn't excuse it not being possible or working poorly in the GUI. Most modern computer users don't know how to use a command line and they really shouldn't have to. Of course, these are only problems if you actually want an incarnation of Linux that is a drop in alternative to windows that an average person could use. But honestly, it seems like very few Linux users actually want that. They want people to use Linux sure. but only if they conform to the OS's ridiculous and obtuse standards. And that's really disappointing as normie who just wishes there was an actual open alternative to windows.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

I get it... However, linux really isn't meant for the average gamer. The conclusion of Linus's experience will be use windows. I say this, because I love Linux, but I understand it simply isn't as good as Windows when it comes to gaming and the general population. The big thing I'm curious about is seeing if Google (Chrome OS) or Valve (Steam OS) use Linux to bring it to the normal population. I suppose I could make a video stating this, but it will generally just piss everyone off.

[@melty4204]

@@ChrisTitusTech Who exactly decides who linux is for? Isn't the whole point of having different distribution to offer different user experiences? All that keeps linux from the mainstream is the lack of a single example of a turn-key desktop environment that's reasonably polished and functional and doesn't try to commit seppuku when you have the gall to attempt to install a native application. I've seen such amazing examples of polished open source softwhere. I don't understand why it will take a google or valve to make linux user friendly. Why does even talking about it piss so many people off and why is there no push back aginst that shitty attitude in the community? A larger linux user base will just make it more worth it to companies to support linux, so that maybe you could actually use things like nvidia cards and goxlrs. So ultimately, a user friendly linux distro would be a good thing for you hardcores as well.

[@bighairycomputers]

@@melty4204 Because the people who develop distros aren't trying to do the thing you are envisioning. One company actually did that. They did it really well. They're one of the top grossing tech companies in the world. You might have heard of them. They sink literally billions into user experience R&D. As a result they have one of the smoothest user experiences that money can buy, as long as you buy wholesale into their ecosystem. They're called Apple. I hate them as a company, for reasons that Louis Rossman sums up pretty well, but they do an amazing job at the user experience. They can do that because they get the billions to spend it on user experience. The developers of distros don't have the resources necessary to polish that experience the same way. Try developing anything for consumer applications. I'm working on designing a modular computer desk with 19" server racks on the ends, as well as conventional desk drawers that can be put in them. And making something consumer proof is hard. Like, really hard. Unless you hand it to them prebuilt, with everything installed, Murphy's Law is the only law of that land. And Linux is the ultimate in handing them the lumber in the form of the OS, giving them part numbers for the screws in the form of the various applications you need to use for basic functionality in any other OS, and then telling them to just use a saw when they get told to use a CLI. Making that a good experience for new users who have never held a square before is only going to end in pain and agony without a lot of development resources put into it. Resources that largely just don't exist in the open source world. I guess my point is that you need a company, or segment of a company, with the mission statement of "make a Linux distro that functions at a level equivalent to Windows XP out of the box with a focus on new user experience", and then have the management and development skills on your team to pull it off. And that won't be free, and it will need ongoing support, and initial capital to develop, and is not likely to happen. But if it was successful, they could probably sell licenses for 100-150$ a pop, as long as it actually met that goal. Would be interesting to see, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[@melty4204]

@@bighairycomputers Go to any major distros website and they market themselves as a fully featured, user-friendly, stable OS that's ready to go out of the box, and is capable of running Windows software. Clearly, this kind of experience is something that many devs aim for, yet when you ask the community at large you get a completely different narrative. A narrative that seems to be based in the dogmatic defence of their chosen platform as it is today with no desire to see it reach its potential. And it's this complete refusal by the vocal Linux community to admit that things can and should be better. and the inability to recognize how it would benefit them as well in the form of greater industry support for Linux overall. I don't blame the devs, I understand that this isn't a monumental amount of work to do something like this. But I recognize that there is still a lot of work to be done in order for their distros to live up to their claims. Also, we shouldn't be equating basic useability with being "apple like". To their credit, Apples designers and developers do absolutely amazing work that's sullied by cult like marketing and tyrannical business decisions.

[@Blackdiamond2]

@@melty4204 "...the dogmatic defence of their chosen platform as it is today with no desire to see it reach its potential." well fucking said. The more attention Linux gets as an alternative to windows, and the more I get exposed to the Linux community and their stance, the more it seems like the existing Linux community is the reason that Linux isn't a viable, open alternative to Windows. It could be, it has the potential to be, but they're too stubborn to change. And that's incredibly frustrating to see. I'm pretty much a windows normie, who would love to switch from Windows. But all is see are issues and compromises, and a community that's uninterested in my problems and fixing them. That's incredibly alienating and discouraging, and the reason I haven't switched. There's almost a part of me that thinks if the Linux community can't change to their influx of new users who are fundamentally different from them now, then the dream of Linux as a windows alternative is truly dead. It will never happen. Or, the new userbase that switches to Linux ends up overpowering the existing Linux culture, superceding it. Then, we may be able to see the dream realised.

[@Sovek86]

man, his comment about "just get an AMD card, you'll never have to worry about drivers" was spot on. After installing Mint on my PC the other day I was amazed I never had to install ANY drivers for my stuff to work, including my games. I was able to play Terraria and Holocure right out of the box after installing Steam and proton. No need to install the AMD drivers and HOPE it worked. In fact Windows had a habit of bricking the driver install after the computer went to sleep.

[@NathanWilkie]

My experience has been so similar to what Linus experienced. Every couple of years I'll try some flavor of linux and have some sort of weird hardware issue, or initialization problem. I'm a novice with linux because for all the compelling reasons to switch there is a non-trivial time commitment. The linux community is fractured because they like customization, but to the average user it doesn't matter that much. I genuinely don't care about customization because its a tool. It would be like if I was a construction person and started talking about the benefits of using a titanium headed hammer and how stiletto's are the best on day one. The novice doesn't care, or understand yet, and maybe they might not even be in the profession long enough to see an ROI on that hammer. Snobbery is a waste of time to someone who is just trying to get a job done and develop a basic understanding of the fundamentals. Its one of my main problems with the . Thanks for making it a little bit more accessible. I'm 100% certain I'll see people roasting both Linus and Luke, but I think it gives the experienced person a better idea of what the average beginner goes through.

[@etopowertwon]

Hear, hear. We have buses in the city proudly proclaiming they run on methane. And I like "dude, idc, just take me from point A to point B". These days the only "customization" I do is unbinding global shortcuts because all modern DE it seems like to occupy functional key to the point they conflict with program that use lots of shortcuts (blender, IDEs)

[@robkam643400]

The key to success with Linux: - Use supported hardware - Use supported software - Don't try to jam unsupported software in, switch to Linux first software. Everyone tends to just try to run Windows software on it, then complain. I basically never have issues with Linux if I'm not doing that. And no one reviewed windows or macOS based on the ability to run Linux stuff. It's not a fair comparison. The best beginner distros are likely Mint Cinnamon, Ubuntu, and Kubuntu. Manjaro Plasma has been extremely stable for me though of late, and has the best App Store experience out of all the distros I've tried, by far. Enable flatpaks and aur, and you'll never need to use a terminal.

[@drifter402]

People are sick of windows. They just want the xp/7 experience again. If it's customisable that's a bonus.

[@RAndrewNeal]

There will always be basic setup. Not unlike setting up Windows. If you don't care for customization, almost every desktop environment is fully functional after you've installed the OS. GNOME, KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, and Xfce are the most popular. For those wanting to go down the customization route, plain ol' window managers are the best. I use i3 tiling WM, and I have everything exactly like I want it; and it took a lot of time to fine tune everything. But once it's set up, you shouldn't ever have to touch it again unless you want to make changes. I rarely run into issues using Linux. The people who do are probably trying to use software/hardware which doesn't have support for Linux. They're also probably expecting it to behave like Windows. Do they expect a Mac to behave like Windows too? As much as I'd like to see everybody switch to Linux, if they are expecting Windows when they switch, just don't switch.

[@thaurane]

@@robkam643400 That goes back to what was just said "They just want it to work". Your average user WILL NOT. I REPEAT, WILL NOT buy new hardware just to get an OS to work. They. Don't. Care. *You* can care all you want. Its a fact the average user will not go out of their way to get it to work. If you care about linux becoming popular you have to drop that horrible opinion. Yes, it is a far comparison. Like it or not Windows and MacOS are the front runners. If linux wants to make a stand they have to meet it. There are no exceptions or negotiations.

[@arthurswart4436]

Thanks, that was fun to watch. I've used Linux off and on for about 25 years, and the easy distro for people with next to no other skills than running a Windows update still isn't there. For some reason, every distro has a free glitch included. The Steam bug in Pop OS isn't a fluke, it's one of many hurdles in this distro. The worst oversight in Pop OS is the assumption that a network cable is present to connect to an update server. I live somewhat off the beaten track, there are no land lines to my house. I use the wifi hotspot on my 5G phone to connect my server and desktop to the world. Unfortunately, the Pop OS install file doesn't include wifi drivers (which is a remarkable choice for a distro that is issued by a laptop developer), so there is no way to get the updates I need. The drivers for a tethered usb connection are also missing, Pop Os runs flat without an RJ45 connector plugged in. I returned to Mint, no showstoppers there..

[@Vectrex-xd6qi]

No Wifi-driver included?:D That is hilarious. And people wonder why Windows is still Winning.::D

[@MmeHyraelle]

Lack of ability to install my wifi drivers is what killed my previous linux attempt. It just never worked.

[@comicsans1689]

@@MmeHyraelle I've never truly had wi-fi issues in Linux using a variety of Thinkpads. The closest I've had is when I was running Trisquel on my X220, which had no proprietary drivers included. I bought a USB wireless dongle as a workaround and compiled the drivers for it myself. It works okay, but signal can be spotty. And when my kernel is updated, I always have to recompile the wireless drivers. But this is an extreme use case, as my installs of Debian, Artix, Mint, and Manjaro never had any issues.

[@arthurswart4436]

@@comicsans1689 Wifi should work just fine in PopOS, it's just an oversight that you need a landline to download wifi drivers. In my case (I live semi off-grid in a forrest, no telco copper or glass for kilometres) I am stuck. I only have wifi using my phones' hotspot, which means I can't get the drivers I need to get wifi available in PopOs. In Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora these drivers are available. PopOs is based on Ubuntu, so the wifi drivers would have to have been removed from the release as a design choice. I find that a strange choice for a company that builds laptops. I switched back to Mint, the wifi connectivity is no problem there.

[@comicsans1689]

@@arthurswart4436 You have a point about PopOS. I've never used it before, so I've never experienced that issue. That's really amateurish that the maintainers have not fixed that, especially since the distro it's based off of, like you said, has it working.

[@15chris45chris]

Love to the reaction. As a soon-to-be Linux experimenter, I did learn a lot and I'm seeing some things that I need to look into now before attempting and install. Loving the channel, definitely do more reactions. These were pretty fun to watch

[@billy65bob]

His GoXLR seems to actually be working. The reason he's not hearing any audio can be seen at 16:20 of the original video; his HDMI screen is the default audio output device.

[@0x007A]

Linus' problem is his poor reading comprehension. I would never let him near any production system.

[@aaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaa]

@@0x007A This is supposed to be a challenge to see if normal people can daily drive linux. I would say linus has significantly more understanding of computer systems than the average person, so if he's having so many problems then what hope is there for linux to truly become mainstream.

[@Qwertworks]

@@aaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaa I think Linus problem is he is a busy man. In this video alone it was very much shown that he did this in like 2 hours or so late at night while his wife could be wanting him to go to bed at any moment. If you are in a hurry and especially if you are more tech literate you get into this fallacy where you think “yeah these piles of texts are for beginners, I can just skim through / skip them and hit the buttons, I know what I am doing” hence him probably just searching for commands and then uninstalling the entire desktop environment xD It is not that he is bad at reading, it is that he is not taking the needed time for a system he doesn’t know and you probably cannot even fault him for that after a busy day. The distros can definitely improve some stuff though. This challenge gives some good insights like the “yes, do as I say” prompt is not clear enough. It should be something along those lines of “yes I am aware of the risks” or “yes I understand the consequences” so even if you don’t read what came before it’ll give you some pause and make you reconsider skipping the wall of text. In a way this is probably also a problem of terminals: They are limited in how they can display stuff (since they are not a GUI but a terminal), so it is harder to draw attention to some things and it can just get lost in the wall of text that is very intimidating to people who are not too familiar with tech.

[@r3d0c]

@@Qwertworks and you wonder why the average person doesn't use/want to use linux; the lack of self awareness and arrogance of linux users works against them all the time > I think Linus problem is he is a busy man. In this video alone it was very much shown that he did this in like 2 hours or so late at night while his wife could be wanting him to go to bed at any moment. No fucking shit my man, that's 90% of people, they just want to use their computer, not build it, use it, and troubleshoot it every night; reason why mac and iphones are so popular; are yall that dense?

[@sysghost]

@@r3d0c Linux was never meant for those people. Why expose oneself to problems that can easily be avoided?

[@denisedrey921]

"yes do as I say!" ayyyyy lmaaaao, that was so sudo rm -rf /

[@solomoncyj]

So true

[@motif5775]

Lmao, right!! His screen went black and he just starts smashing the ctrl key, lmao 🤣 😂, omg I'm dead 😵😂!

[@ylstorage7085]

/*

[@garylawton230]

It reminded me of that Simpsons episode when Homer realises he can hit Y instead of typing Yes! “I’ve just tripled my productivity!” 😂

[@SdwHoussamEddine]

"yes, do as I say" should become a viral meme

[@Keeganshero13]

Was happy to hear and see your video again Chris. Always a pleasure. Hope the health is well. Been just going down other KZbin rabbit holes as usual. Thanks again.

[@Destide]

I think Linus is playing some 4D chess here to light a fire up a couple of butts and get Linux progressing on the desktop. I wonder if GoXLR's staff had a moment like POP's

[@mhammadalloush5104]

I agree. If this was some random reddit post this would either be downvoted to hell OR everyone would just say "go learn the terminal and stop crying"

[@dragoon0anime]

I don't think he was playing 4D chess, as a linux noob myself I managed to kill my desktop and grub several times

[@julian.morgan]

Yeah I wondered about that - he's clearly a massive advocate of right to repair/upgradability/avoiding e-waste etc. I think this was a genuine since fixed bug on POP but I wouldn't put it past him to use his clout for a good cause and frankly anything that makes Linux DE more cohesive - pooling the resources currently split across a crazy number of distros - is a very good cause.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

A kid making videos and being treated like a "rock star" by many doesn't make him an authority on any topic. He's marketed for KZbin by KZbin to generate ad revenue, nothing more than that.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@dragoon0anime Hey, it happens. It was the same for me when I started with Linux. It's why you back everything up first. And you learn by mistakes.

[@killertruth186]

Another best step to improve Linux, is to convincing the repair shops that Linux is a valid OS. Or at least for them to not brick or delete the OS.

[@cocotug0]

whoah! is that a thing!?

[@Lodinn]

Well guess it's a problem they'd inevitably run into with their typical workflow. I'd rather have them a better idea about testing the system than trying to boot from the internal drive and poke around.

[@killertruth186]

@@cocotug0 I actually can't confirm for all repair shops. It actually happened to me only once.

[@hi_its_jerry]

wait what? they do that?

[@CanIHasThisName]

Unless Linux gets at least to 20-30% market share, repair shops aren't going to bother learning to work with Linux and no one can blame them for it.

[@GyroCannon]

The whole "The terminal is a better experience than a GUI" thing is true for practically everything that doesn't actively require a UI It's just that the learning curve / human memory required for it is a lot higher. I've installed Node plenty of times on Linux and to this day I still don't remember the process to do so on a clean Linux install, generally because the repos for it aren't there by default

[@marcelomafra]

I am really hoping this series helps to improve new and savvy users experience. Not everyone (some times nor even me) are in the mood or have time to deal with 3000 ways and "solutions" for the same stuff.

[@albatross7]

Tell this to this channel's owner who lives in a bubble and is expecting normal people to do things in terminal rather than GUI because he and other Linux users living in a bubble think "it's superior to remember and type commands on keyboard than to click and install in a GUI"

[@Doctom91]

@@albatross7 if you refuse to learn how to drive a car, you shouldn't drive a car.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@albatross7 If you don't want to use the terminal, don't use the terminal. If not using the terminal still makes Linux too difficult, don't use Linux. What else do you want me to say here? Effort in = reward out.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@Doctom91 Absolutely. "Linux works with 100% of all new games" ... said nobody ever. "Linux works with 100% of all hardware out of the box" ... said nobody ever. "Someone will make a Linux distro that meets every single one of my computing requirements"... said nobody ever. People who aren't willing to put in time and effort to learn Linux and build it to their requirements should stay away from it.

[@Zaptosis]

This series will mark a turning point for linux, after this there will be massive improvements & greater adoption. Linus's criticizes the problems which have been ignored for years, but he is a force that will cause massive change & improvement. I know this as a near fact that his series will mark MASSIVE improvement in linux.

[@chazsewell]

I like seeing this stuff, both the original video by Linus and this reaction by Titus. Linux suffers from a pretty bad disconnect between the uninitiated and the seasoned users/developers. Linux developers and users both are a bit out of touch with what new users don't know or understand as I was forced to realize while trying to teach my grandmother to do something simple on the computer, only to find myself having to explain many things like what a window, icon, menu etc. referred to and what the play pause and next buttons do. I just couldn't imagine not knowing such basic stuff. Grandma just hadn't used computers since the 1970s or 80s because she thought it was a hassle to learn everything over and over again on every new computer (which to be fair it was back then). It's really hard to wrap your head around what others don't know when you've reached the point of understanding that feels like instinct.

[@kevinpetersen9090]

"At the end of the day I just use the terminal." And that's why Linux will never go mainstream.

[@stephanweinberger]

You don't have to. Most Linux users just end up using the terminal, because it is actually quicker and more flexible than any GUI tool will ever be. I mean: why do you think Microsoft saw a need to add the Powershell to Windows?

[@thaurane]

Both Linus and Chris have made it clear you still have to at some point. The moment you have to google a command or open the terminal you've lost nearly everyone. Linux is still a power user's OS. The powershell is not a good example. The powershell is for advanced/power users. Your average user won't even know its something they can access. The gui is the front of the windows os and its proof that it can get the job done well enough. This is not the case with linux and is almost completely the opposite. Linux community has to get rid of this "use the termainal" mindset if they want it to become truly popular. It is not acceptable. I will not be surprised that in the following episodes of LTT's series on this. That if they have to use it again at some point.

[@stephanweinberger]

@@thaurane I repeat: in any modern distro you *dont* have to use the terminal for tasks a normal user would want to do. It may sometimes be more efficient to use the terminal, but you _really_ dont have for everyday tasks.

[@techno_letsgo]

@@stephanweinberger linus was forced to go to the terminal just to install steam. There was no other choice

[@isaackvasager9957]

@@stephanweinberger That's nonsense. The terminal is absolutely required in Linux, even these days. I try to daily drive Linux every year or so..and EVERY time I run into numerous issues that require hours of googling and fixes via terminal. It has never "just worked" for me. Ever.

[@antonmaier5172]

Everyday tasks, like installing programs, configuring stuff, should NOT require any terminal interaction whatsoever. Otherwise, why have a gui in the first place ? Maybe to watch pron ? If you know your way around the terminal and how to configure stuff in text files, good for you, have at it. But do not expect this from a normal person. This isn't the 1960's with every computer user having an advanced degree in computer sciences ... I'm not saying Windows or Mac are perfect, far from it, but In this particular category linux distros still have a loooong way to go. (damn typos)

[@sudombd1230]

It isn't expected. That's why there are a thousand guis for every package manager. In fact if Linus stuck to the gui he wouldn't have caused the "uninstall my everything" issue that the steam package had. The gui literally told him that there is a problem with the package.

[@Evitrea]

Ardour actually refused me to switch language within setting, instead the dev insist the user should just configure gtk with "simple command line", and that's why I jumped back to Reaper

[@arijitroy7]

exactly

[@TheCocoaDaddy]

I agree 150% and for the most part, I'm able to do everything I need without using a terminal at all. In fact, I needed to create a vector image and I installed Inkscape from the software store. All point and click. Inkscape installed and I was able to use it without any problems. I also understand that using the terminal can be more efficient for some, but using Linux daily, I rarely have to interact with the terminal at all. When I do it's usually to do some "one-off" thing there isn't a graphical application or front-end for me to use OR if I haven't taken the time to install it, if one exists. :)

[@yogurtColombiano]

i mean, even the terminal warned Linus with the 'You are about to do something potentially harmful' output. Maybe it wasn't that starry as showing a glowing red window saying alert, but yeah it's just way too different from doing it via a GUI in a user experience perspective.

[@seekererebus255]

I had no where near as many issues starting out a test drive of linux, used Pop OS and it just worked. Biggest issue being that Pop recommended the flatpak of Steam, and I had to correct to the deb which did work. Every game I tried worked. The biggest issue I still have is with modding games, which is much harder to figure out than actually doing it, at least I think so since I don't have it figured out.

[@submarinecatdraws1079]

I just gave up on Vortex on Linux and manually installed my mods for Cyberpunk 2077. Easy enough for the 50 mods I have for it. I'll never do it with Skyrim and my 200+ modlist.

[@gorkskoal9315]

You say every game worked. but is that because you used proton with steam? if so that's...still a problem. Gog much? those might 'just work' because not using DRM . But after that? yeeeeah..

[@seekererebus255]

@@gorkskoal9315 Yeah that's also very true. It's never been easier to game on Linux, but the switch is still a technical hurdle of significant magnitude. I have a dual boot set up, but I'm still mostly using Win10 just because of compatibility.

[@АлексейГриднев-и7р]

Well, it would have been great if PopOS only offered to install Steam as a flatpak. There's no way you can nuke your desktop by installing flatpak or snap :)

[@seekererebus255]

@@АлексейГриднев-и7р Except that the flatpak version of Steam is so out of date it outright didn't work, so there's also that.

[@dee23gaming]

I like how his name "Linus", rhymes with Linux, but never thought... "Hey, let's live up to my name and give Linux a try"

[@StarcoreLabs]

Great react video. I'm happy Linus and Luke started this challenge. My hope is that GNU/Linux developers understand that to achieve more adoption the end user experience needs to improve for non-technical people who are use to graphical interfaces. I've used Linux for over 8 years and love the terminal. But some days I wish Linux was more streamlined so I didn't have to use it.

[@lesath7883]

Thank you. I support that idea.

[@_invencible_]

not hating here, but could you please name an example of something you use the terminal for, that you wish you could do with a gui?

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

So the Linux developer community is supposed to stop and listen to a kid on KZbin purely marketed for ad revenue?

[@lesath7883]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 Only if their arrogance does not make them unable to listen.....

[@Allen_lena]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 Yes, the Linux developer community should listen to the biggest PC/tech youtuber, who is more tech savvy than about 95% of people on earth, and still is having some trouble due to bad UX and hardware compatibility. Not everyone loves the terminal. In fact, most people won't ever use a terminal in their whole life. If you want to reach more than developers, you have to aim your experience at people who aren't devs.

[@MyNameIsBucket]

Linux nerds for the past 15 years: "It's the Year of The Linux Desktop! Our DE is so much better and so much more mature and objectively superior to Windows!" Linux newbie: "How do I do literally anything important?" Linux nerds: "FIRST YOU GO TO THE COMMAND LINE"

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

It's been on my desktop as my main OS for 18 years now - I see no issue here. If you're not willing to learn how to use it then don't use it - again, I see no issue here.

[@MyNameIsBucket]

@@terrydaktyllus1320 Ha, nice one. More like "learn how not to use it" since all of Linux's inherent shortcomings are always the user's fault, never the creator's.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@MyNameIsBucket If that is what you choose to believe, so be it. Why does anything you've said there have any affect on my usage of Linux? It works fine for me.

[@katrinabryce]

There are a lot of instances in Windows where doing stuff requires incredibly verbose Powershell incantations.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@katrinabryce Who cares? Windows is crap. I don't use it.

[@trottingfoxinc]

Really happy to see commentary like this surrounding the LTT adventure. This is really important discourse as far as I'm concerned, and I think you nailed it.

[@lesath7883]

Thanks for the video, Chris. It is nice seeing you comment on what Linus and Luke are doing while trying to move to Linux. Mostly for people like me who are alooking for a way to escape Windows and, disheartening, everything seems to require a PhD in computer science just to turn the thing on. I'd say please continue making these. We can learn a lot from them.

[@ron6420]

In addition to my previous comment, I am a seasoned Linux and Windows user yet I would NEVER run Linux as a daily driver!! It's just often a pain in the ass, too much proprietary stuff not available, on and on. I have my issues with Windows as well but one great selling point for Windows is that it JUST WORKS!

[@awomandoesnothaveapenis]

Hmmm my experience is the complete opposite. I jump on one of my Linux machines and I feel comfortable, I know things will work. With Windows it feels clunky and slow, like walking through molasses.

[@ron6420]

@@awomandoesnothaveapenis Windows is certainly heavier, and I have my complaints with it but you can't deny that it's a plug n play w/ next to no hassles. I'm running 11 on my lap and that's even heavier than 10 but with what I need to do, and game, I couldn't run Linux as my only machine(s).

[@avendite7206]

I'm currently running EndeavourOS as a daily driver and completely agree. The sheer amount of learning I have to do on a daily basis just for it to run stuff that runs out of the box on windows is overwhelming. The most recent example was copying movie from my Android device. Linux doesn't see any files after plugging android device and agreeing to share data.Tbh I still have no idea how to do it. In windows however this stuff just works. I know my issues are partly because I use os that is almost pure arch, but come on.. I wish there was a os thats basically Windows with Sweet theme(kde plasma) and linux terminal.

[@Firecul]

@@avendite7206 that's a strange one, I'm running Manjaro but whenever I plug in my phone and click mount it just works. I'd expect Endevour to be as simple

[@Ciorram1]

I've noticed your common response to most of the issues and suggested improvements pointed to the Terminal because you are more comfortable with it. However I would like to point out that the whole point of this challenge is can Linux be an alternative for the average user/gamer, Granted both Linus and Luke could be classed as an advance/power user and both could, given time, also use the Terminal to solve the issues but the point I think is not to because after all how many regular folk do you know would even know where to begin with a terminal prompt. So 'just use the terminal' I think is the wrong mindset to have if you want the average user to consider migrating to Linux. Like me for example I am sick and tired of Microsofts shennanigans with Windows and I would love to have another choice in OS but even though Linux has improved massively there really isn't a genuine alternative out there for me and users like me, At least not yet.

[@Ciorram1]

@danielhalachev4714 My point was if linux wants to reach mass market appeal even having to interact with the terminal at all for the lay user is something they should never have to do. Also consider this the code that google says will fix your issue you're adding that souly based on trust that both google and the code do as intended, Because you like me have no idea what it actually does and how it fixes the issue for you right? Can't you see how unacceptable that is as it leaves you open to malicious code and actors. The more popular an OS is the more hackers will find ways to compromise your system and currently the easiest way to do so on a Linux machine owned by someone like me would be to manipulate google results for a common linux issue and have their malicious code executed by unsuspecting people like you and me.

[@robertlinke2666]

16:19 no, YOU wouldn't as a Linux SysAdmin. this is supposed to be a "normie"perspective of a normal end user. just your 15 year old doing homework and playing CS:GO and if this is the experience, it's not going to sway those people over. this is not a test to see how well they know linux. this is a test to see if linux is ready for mainstream usage.

[@skjoldgames]

"...not get my PhD in Linux Smartassery..." He's calling you out Chris! 🤣

[@Snowpanel]

"Don't use Nvidia if you're really serious about daily-driving Linux" I mean that's a bit excessive...sure, having to install proprietary drivers isn't great, but as long as your distro has good support for managing them there's no reason you can't daily-drive Nvidia on Linux. Been doing it for years.

[@CanIHasThisName]

And especially during the current shortage, where many people will be stuck with the same GPU at least till early 2023, talking about getting a different GPU is like telling people to move to Mars if they don't like something down here.

[@comicsans1689]

You can use Nvidia for daily-driving Linux, but it will inherently be inferior to Windows because Nvidia shafts Linux users with barebones drivers on Linux. That's a big reason I've replaced my old 1050 Ti with a Rx 6600.

[@LadyLexyStarwatcher]

Mean, I sorta cheat by physically running most my games on a win7 computer in the basement to my low profile linux computer, but I have never had problems with nvidia cards in Linux. I have gamed with them in wine/proton before and again, no problems there either.

[@AlbyTastic]

Of course Linux plays games - I love Sudoku!

[@sbstratos79]

Tbh this joke isn't really applicable to Linux anymore.

[@ped7g]

I play KMahjongg almost daily... at least 2-4 games. (if you were joking, I am not)

[@accountdeleted]

I play gta V in my manjaro

[@poIonium]

​@@ped7g Man of culture, i do play mahjong too, but gnome mahjong :)

[@SciPunk215]

I happened be doing the same thing as Luke and Linus. I had enough bad experiences with Windows, especially seeing how they want to tie so many features to your Microsoft account, that I decided to ditch it for Linux. I chose Ubuntu, but I will try some other distros... as soon as I figure out why one distro keeps clobbering my older distro. Coincidentally, Luke and Linus announced this challenge a few days after I started down this path. It's nice to see that I'm not crazy, and that others run into the similar challenges. Hopefully, a lot more people will jump ship from the MS world and the Linux community will be invigorated so a lot of these issues can be fixed.

[@JoshuaRichards2010]

Can you elaborate on one distro clobbering another? If multiboot, probably one uses a newer version of GRUB than the other. Find the one using the newer version of GRUB and install / use that version with sudo update-grub

[@SciPunk215]

Thanks for the tip. Ubuntu is running right now, but I have a lot of research in front of me. I tried to install Mint onto a 2nd drive, with its own ESP, and I directed the Mint installer to use the ESP on the 2nd drive. I figured the UEFI would see two drives, each w/ its own ESP, and would create a unique entry for each OS... and my two drives would be as separate as possible. I thought I could even remove either drive and boot another computer with it. Apparently Mint ignored my directive and modified the ESP on the 1st drive... and apparently Mint and Ubuntu have a naming conflict where they both use a sub directory "boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu". So despite my valiant effort to keep these separate and stand alone, Mint trashed the Ubuntu on the first drive... at least partially. At no point would UEFI give me two separate boot entries. Grub, on the 2nd drive, would let me boot into Mint and Ubuntu... though the names were screwy. But when I deleted all the partitions on the 2nd drive, I could no longer boot Ubuntu. I'm not exactly sure what I did, but I think I edited Grub, deleted all the firmware boot entries in UEFI, and was able to boot into Ubuntu again. During the process, I patiently did clean installations, deleting all partitions, creating new UUIDs, creating new partitions, and reinstalling. I did this several times. I chalked it up to a learning experience. But now my Boot Entry in the UEFI (as seen with efibootmgr) specifically refers to a UUID of a drive that no longer exists. I'm not sure how it's even booting at this point.

[@FABESTAH]

I started using Linux by going all in as I chose Arch btw as my first distro and it has been one of the hardest things I've ever committed to when I stopped using Windows as my back-up plan if something doesn't work. Therefore these issues they had in the series didn't seem to bad to me when I watched it without your commentary but it makes a lot more sense and is more relatable watching it alongside with your commentary ;D

[@user-sf9gs2pg1b]

I did the same thing, but coming from MacOS. I figured that having a completely immersed experience with Arch Linux would force me to learn as well, which was true. It felt like I lived in the terminal, lmao.

[@Zundfolge]

I've been daily driving Mint for the last 4-5 years, I love it. Also, you're right, the worst thing about Linux absolutely is the user base.

[@klittlet]

And the worse thing about the user base is people thinking that Linux should be a replacement for Windows. After 3 years of using Manjaro I've come to realize that's something that won't and shouldn't happen.

[@LolSho0orTs]

@@TownspersonB 100% true

[@Zundfolge]

@@klittlet I've found that for 90%+ of my computer needs, Linux replaces Windows just fine. But yes, pretending that there are OSS alternatives of every piece of proprietary software that are every bit as good as the commercial ones is foolishness. And after I type this I'm going to spin my chair around, scoot over to my Mac and get some work done in Adobe InDesign to prove the point.

[@lesath7883]

@@klittlet Well, Linux IS a replacement for Windows. They both are OSs, so you either use one or the other. Dualboxing is for pros, so it does not count.

[@nanoprehistoric]

@@klittlet Iagree with you. Replacement? No. But alternative? Yes. Because people will prioritize software they use for work first, then the platform. Especially engineers, if someone tell those people to use Linux, the first question will be “Will it run AutoCAD better? Will it run Solidworks better?”

[@dermond]

Luke Linux experience: 🙂👍 Linus Linux experience: 🗿

[@sbstratos79]

Luke has mentioned on the WAN show that he has been having some serious lag issues. His experience isn't the best either.

[@dermond]

@@sbstratos79 yeah i watched that WAN show, I think it was because the nautilus file manager

[@Vim_Tim]

This reaction kinda validates the complaints. The solution “don’t use it” is antithetical to the purported freedom and flexibility of Linux.

[@moister3727]

Linus deleting his whole desktop was the best part imo

[@1pcfred]

The sad part is he could have gotten it back with basically one command. He just didn't know what that command was.

[@MmeHyraelle]

@@1pcfred thats the point. No one knows those command. He isnt god how should have he guessed that?

[@1pcfred]

@@MmeHyraelle I know the command. I am a Linux God! It just takes some time to level up is all. You gamers should understand the mechanics. Linux is just like any other puzzle game. You start out weak and the more you play the better you get.

[@GeneralStrange]

Thank you for mentioning the screen tearing and how to fix! That’s the main thing that’s put me off going over to Linux full time (granted, I didn’t really look into it). I might make the jump myself now! Glad I stumbled across this 😂

[@krank23]

Seems there are two types of reactions to Linus' fuckup: 1) It's Linus' fault for being such a noob, not reading everything, not knowing what to do, etc. 2) [laughs knowingly] Yeah, that's a bug and also it's a crappy user experience. We all know about it and know how to get around it but it's totally understandable how Linus didn't. Linux is awesome, but it's absolutely not ready for the mid-experienced techie. The gamer, the one-step-above-grandma. There are too many inconsistencies, to much fragmentation , too many weird quirks or bugs. Like an old house, where there are certain floorboards you just avoid stepping on because they're unstable, or creak. People who live in the house have just gotten used to them, it's second nature. But new guests, who aren't told about them… Anyone seriously advocating for "training the user" or "the user just getting better at solving problems" as a solution to user experience problems is a fool.

[@joo9125]

Old house analogy is perfect lol

[@MmeHyraelle]

Old house analogy would be better if the house started destroying itself after you walked on the "wrong" board, but it was the board they told you to use.

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

it's a good analogy and I get it but if ppl infront of a screen don't even bother to read what's on the screen (which also counts for Windows btw!) then you gonna brick something. The warning was fat and clear, I could read it in the original video of LTT while watching the vid and didn't pause the video. So, where is the issue?

[@krank23]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver Thing is, you don't get to decide whether it was an issue or not. The person who just had the experience gets to decide how that experience affects their future actions. So "the issue" is simply that some people will choose to not use Linux, based on Linus' and their own experiences. If you're OK with that, then there's no issue.

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

@@krank23 Well I won't say this isn't true but to simply f..ing read what's on the screen shouldn't be an issue et all. You even can brick your Windows with "nah I don't need to read that stuff" as well. So there isn't a Linux issue. The experience just shows that keeping attention (what ever you do) is a necessary thing in life in general.

[@thierrybo6304]

17:26 Warning! on, Debian "this is tool is deprecated. The NVIDIA drivers now automatically integrate with the Xorg Xserver configuration. Creating an xorg.conf is no longer needed for normal setups."

[@OctavianTheGr8]

This was very insightful, I loved both videos and I personally just installed pop for the first time on my main pc. I’ve also never attempted a Linux daily driver. But I had absolutely no issues using the pop shop and I have steam running my games better than I could manage on windows. (I have some older hardware) I can’t wait to watch more of both channels.

[@OctavianTheGr8]

@@BobDevV how do you like elementary? My wife is diehard Mac user and I don’t want to buy another Mac, I’d like to have our whole house on Linux in the future.

[@batou1468]

I was an IT guy until recently and was transitioning from doing all kinds of hardware networking to trying to do network as code for infrastructure. The more i got into the dev side, the more i realized how much of my life i was wasting trying to navigate bad UX. like anyone, i know how to google, but there's not enough hours in the day and years in my lifetime to learn EVERYTHING at low level. I hope the tech industry really starts to prioritize feedback loops and UX with good functionality instead of just pushing out stuff that "functions"... I used to be one of those hardcore elitist people that was like "cisco CLI or death!" which i think is the same sentiment a lot of NIX users have, but as i get older, the more i value things that "just work" and have had consideration for ease of use.. my experience for windows and linux has been like buying a certified used car to one from a lemon lot. the certified used car/windows has minimal to no problems just getting from point a to b mostly. there's always going to be some issues that pop up, but generally not a show stopper. linux is like having to break out the mechanics tools every time i want to drive down the road...

[@afkcnd2395]

Except the Windows car isn't yours, the dealership has the keys, and the rights to open it any time, make modifications anytime.

[@user-sf9gs2pg1b]

@@afkcnd2395 For some people, that ease of use is worth it. (Obligatory “I used Arch btw,” lol)

[@user-sf9gs2pg1b]

I completely get what you’re saying. For me, I find it really fun to break out those tools and get things working, I find it incredibly rewarding. I’ve been using Hyprland (SUPER COOL) and have had to add so many things to it. I do this a lot with other things. Computer no worky? I open it up. Key no worky? I open it up. I just like to open things and fix them, and find great joy from doing it, even if things don’t go as planned, lmao. To each their own though, Windows’ ease of use right out of the box shouldn’t be discounted like it so often is (particularly by Linux users).

[@josue85]

I really enjoyed this breakdown. I was afraid it'd be a ton of outright shitting on the Linus guys for not knowing better (i've never checked out this channel), but this was very informative and not at all unfair. I daily drive windows, but I've been thinking about trying to go linux, so all of these tips are gold.

[@katnerd6712]

What is the "graphics card" you speak of? Do those exist? Also, remember, the whole point of this is to be the Windows normie user that is trying out Linux for the first time. The solutions you were offering are things that a more advanced user would be comfortable with. Let's face it Chris, in the encyclopedia under "power user" there's a picture of you. However, i would point out that Linus' home set up clearly displays that he too is a "power user". Just not in Linux. His home set up is so customized to a super hardware nerd that it's got a lot of weirdness in it. This may be his biggest hurdle to deal with. Something else people don't really notice due to Linus' "happy, happy" public image is that he's extremely uncompromising when it comes to the quality levels he expects from things like sound and video. To the point that I think the few times that actual anger has been seen from him on screen has been related to him dealing with sound issues on his systems. Linus is a bit of a hardass when it comes to demanding things meet his expectations. This may be an issue as well, lol

[@qBtz]

yeah they do forget that he's the boss of a large media group

[@MegaManNeo]

I'm so happy to read this right now. In the LTT vid's comment section, Windows users hate Linux for being Linux and Linux users play smartass with things a Windows user would never consider. While I think Linux itself should be able to better handle a setup like Linus', the option to even remove the GUI from a desktop distro is BS to begin with.

[@raeedibnzaman1]

@@MegaManNeo at first i was going to type an angry grumpy reply about how the option isn't BS but then i read 'from a desktop distro' and i wholeheartedly agree, something as "beginner-friendly" as Pop!_OS shouldn't allow such dramatic changes regardless of user error or system error.

[@adjmonkey]

@@raeedibnzaman1 problem is, this wasn’t really brought to light as a real issue until lately and pop doesn’t have much control over the package manager- that belongs to Ubuntu/Debian. And both of those are often used as server OS’s. Also, being able to replace the DE is something that should definitely be possible, even from Pop.

[@MegaManNeo]

@@raeedibnzaman1 I'm glad someone agrees. At least they should enforce the free drivers.

[@GeezerDust]

As a mediocre computer buff, to minimize problems, I bought a dedicated Linux machine with ubuntu installed. Before I install anything, I look to see what is working with more knowledgeable people (like yourself). Three years in, I'm really enjoying Linux and gaining expertise everyday. My point: Don't be ashamed to use training wheels while learning what you're doing and don't worry what other people think. You'll enjoy the ride a lot more.

[@honkhonk8009]

i just installed ubuntu on my new laptop and it worked like a charm. Only cancerous part was some wierd bug where the charging icon was completely flipped. But really other than that it was basically a glorified macbook, but more "free" yk?

[@GameTL]

When he is expecting new LTT viewers, explains who he is in the beginning of the video. Love your channel

[@makkam7575]

The go xlr actually worked on pop os. To be frank, when I heard about Linus's issues on the wan show, I expected the thunderbolt optical dock or some other component to be the cause of his issues. But it was not and i was amazed when it worked out of the box. In my opinion linus should have read the terminal prompt but still. The main idea is the experience to a complete noob who does not want to compile his own distro from source but someone who wants a desktop that just works. And to be fair I ran into a lot of the same problems that I did not understand. But being the tinkerer that I am, this did not turn me down. However the importance of this challenge is to give feedback so we can all benefit. If the market share of linux goes up. Maybe, just maybe I can finally install inventor of fusion 360 in my linux os and ditch my dual boot setup.

[@_invencible_]

having companies like autodesk making their software available on linux would be the ultimate victory

[@cameronmcgehee]

@@_invencible_ Yep but that won't happen until these noob-prone issues get fixed. Someone tech savy will have no issue with Linux but all these issues will just turn normies away. Also, it takes an absolute ton of work to rewrite a Windows program for Linux (most notably ones that use Windows APIs and stuff), especially one as complex as a 3D modeling software or video editing software for example. So from the standpoint of a business, it wouldn't make sense to spend the time and money to get the Linux version made and maintained when the majority of people won't be using it.

[@Firecul]

The GoXLR can't work more that a nerfed DAC without software, which atm doesn't exist on Linux. I wish it did, my hardware is an expensive paperweight when I'm in my Linux os.

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

@@cameronmcgehee DaVinci Resolve works on Linux and on Windows and on Mac. It is a great video editing, sound and color grading software with CPU and GPU support and almost everything you can imagine. I got it stable on both systems without issues and without sitting on it for even 20mins. So it is possible and this program just costs about $280 bucks. So it isn't one of those enterprice $10K thingies. And yes companies could do that. Like game developer could have made multi gpu support available. But excuses on both sides killed that concept as well. And so on.......

[@cameronmcgehee]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver Great! Now get the entire film and TV industry to switch their workflow and proprietary integrations over to it. But then you have the office suites to solve. And photo editing. And audio mixing (in a studio environment). "Don't fix something that isn't broken" is something that many follow, and currently the Windows and Mac solutions to these tasks are not broken, so most people will keep using them because they just work.

[@SoftNapkins]

I've been interested in Linux in the past, but it was very overwhelming for a young highschooler I was considering trying it again recently, and the LTT videos have been extremely encouraging to see! Your thoughts and insights are incredibly useful for a contemplative user, cheers, Chris!

[@SianaGearz]

There's a new challenge that the likes of you face. Bad signal to noise ratio, including right here, in this video, and in this comment section. Even this guy gives contradictory advice at best. A lot of things you will google, the information will be outdated, dangerously incomplete and underexplained, or outright wrong. Back 20+ years ago information was a little more scarce, but it tended to be as close to authoritative as reasonably possible. I was especially lucky to first get Linux in a box with an actually super high quality printed manual.

[@Cobalt985]

Genuinely I started in high school. I think it's the best time to start because there's very few specialized programs being used so you can learn the basics and you will probably only ever need Libreoffice for high school assignments. Word Online _is_ there, but I really encourage people to learn how to use Libreoffice instead in case 1. you have no internet and want/need to write something out, and 2. in case Microsoft breaks something.

[@anastassogoldschmied]

17:18 Thank you, I had screen problem and the option "Force Composition Pipeline" made it again better! (Still waiting for a cheap AMD GPU with more power than 1050 ti to replace it)

[@helloworld456]

same, just enabled this composition pipeline thing

[@Firecul]

I'll be doing the same when I get back to my pc, I hope it'll fix an issue or two I was having

[@nightmarenova6748]

Can't wait to see your reaction!

[@then00b0b6]

Reading the comments I get the feeling some do not understand the purpose of the viedo series. It`s supposed to demonstrate how hard it is for an Windows user to switch to daily drive Linux and game on it. You can install everything whith the command console, but a Windows user would expect to deal whith everything in a Window or via a program. Having to deal whith the console and commands makes Linux very unattractive for most people. Further the Nvidia problems would hold most people back anyways, because who would buy a new GPU / figgle around whith drivers just to try Linux in a world where you can decide to just not buy a Windows license? TLDR: Windows easy, Linux Nerds wacky.

[@caramelpepsi2582]

wow i thought the screen tearing was just something i had to put up with(it wasn't REALLY bad but it was there) but force composition pipeline fixed that up nicely, cheers for the tip :D just one of the many things great about the Linux community, We're all in the same sandbox and most of us play well together :)

[@peterthanasse1321]

I have been an on and off user of Linux on my various laptops since Red Hat in the 90s. I have never found a distro that I liked enough in 30 years of toying with Linux that I liked enough to use as the main OS on my day to day PC. The closest I've ever gotten was one of the early versions of Ubuntu was dual booted on my PC for a few years. So while I am not a Linux power user, I am familiar with many of its iterations and have experience with a ton of them since the days when the gui environments were primitive (to be generous) and the console was the only way to get anything accomplished, and even at that, updates and manual file modifications were hard to find of had to be done manually. That now being out of the way... In the first 2 minutes and 45 seconds, your "reactions" to Linus's interpretation of what a "typical user" who is thinking of getting into Linux demonstrate EXACTLY the problem with Linux and it's users supporters. Taking a basic comment like "look at all the distros" and then pointing out that they are not distros, but simply versions based on the same kernel, then criticizing a search topic (which is exactly how most people would search it), demonstrates that the problem with Linux is not necessarily the problem, Linux's challenge is the attitude of too many of its users. I watched the rest of the video and there are good and reasonable points to be found in there, but yep. 30 years of Linux and still, the same issues with its powerusers still exist. Fact of the matter is this - Linux just needs to stop implying that it is something that anyone can happily use with minimal issues and minimal direct management. It's not. Cheers!

[@tissuepaper9962]

Everybody else put in the time to learn how the system works, Linus is a big boy and he can handle it.

[@emiliskog]

@@tissuepaper9962 this is a challenge series about how it is to start using Linux as a newbie "vlogging" the process, if you have to learn how the system works before installing it that's ridiculous, this was Linus' first real experience with desktop Linux showing mostly the installation experience

[@tissuepaper9962]

@@emiliskog I don't understand why it's ridiculous to say you should learn how your tool works before you use it. Isn't that just common sense? Why couldn't he do the thinking on his own to realize that he shouldn't be deleting the x server and DE? If he doesn't know what packages he's uninstalling, what is stopping him from typing "man xorg" into the terminal and finding out? Why should I GAF about Linus' bad experience when he wrought it himself by flat out refusing to read warning messages/documentation? Luke had a great experience, Linus had a terrible experience. Luke put in the time to figure out how Linux works, Linus did not. This is more than mere correlation. When you're using a piece of equipment, do you curse the designers because you have to know how it works in order not to break it? Would it really be reasonable to blame Tormach if you crashed your CNC machine? To blame GM if you crashed your car after they showed you multiple warning messages about malfunctioning systems? To blame Boeing because you didn't read the right checklist? Furthermore, is it my fault that Linus gave up after one single try? Everybody who gets into desktop Linux nukes their system from time to time, all you have to do is reinstall/reload a backup and try again. If you're totally unwilling to do that, then desktop Linux just isn't for you. If you want something that you don't have to think about or understand to use, then just go elsewhere.

[@emiliskog]

@@tissuepaper9962 with a hardware tool maybe but when it comes to software where the worst that could happen is you bork it the best way to learn is to test things as you'll learn much better by being able to fiddle with things as opposed to just reading things, in my experience when a load of text appears in a cli when trying to install something that's been mainly just subparts of the installation and the error was very unclear just asking you to write "yes do as I say" isn't a strong enough indication that you're trying to uninstall everything I know the limits of a cli mean ux is always going to suffer but this is really bad I wouldn't say he refused to read documentation as once again it wasn't obvious that he had to as well as the fact that there should be no docs involved in trying to install an app, (genuine question how many of the wan shows have you watched or was the good/terrible judgement just based on this one video), we don't know how much time either of them have spent on figuring things out. well if it is that easy to break it yes, installing programs is a fundamental part of modern os', first of all that's false equivalence hardware is not the same as software but in the case of a cnc machine absolutely as the software shouldn't let you run it in a way that breaks it, in the car example no but using a car requires a licence using a os isn't the same thing same with your flying example. Linus didn't give up after one try he figured that pop!_os was not working and decided to reinstall as it was too much hassle trying to save the previous install and he switched to manjaro as to him something was very wrong with pop!_os, also no you have to think about what you do with all os' you should never have to be ready for yor os to break just from installing an app in my opinion your last sentence is extremely gatekeepy, people have to be able to make mistakes (which may not be great) due to terrible ui/ux without being told you're not hardcore enough for this

[@tissuepaper9962]

@@emiliskog okay, so you want the developers to do all the thinking for you. We will never agree. Goodbye. 10-year-old me could do it, I don't see why adult Linus can't. P.S. the great/terrible judgment is based on the original video alone, I haven't actually finished this WAN show episode because I only cared about the YT dislike removal part. PPS: The Tormach will let you crash it, as will the plane and the car, because you're expected to have the knowledge necessary to avoid bad outcomes. How obnoxious would it be for your car to refuse to start or drive over a problem that you know isn't a big deal? That's what you're asking for in desktop Linux, hand-holding and nagging.

[@usellstech-ip2sg]

I am not the first to say, but Linux isn't for everyone. I personally enjoy it because it can be whatever I want it to be with enough effort. But I know that's not what everyone is looking for, some people just want something that just works for their needs and don't care about customization. Just saying, whenever you try Linux, don't be terminal shy and go in expecting not everything to work, problem solving is half the fun!

[@tyler6602]

Ive been messing around with linux mint and gaming and ive had the easiest time lol i can even play sims 2 way easier than on windows where i couldnt get it to work at all. Rpcs3 works good, pcsx2 aswell, my favorite game of all time beamng runs as good as it did on windows while using a compatibility layer

[@usellstech-ip2sg]

@@tyler6602 yeah, majority of Linux distros are miles better in the performance category especially if you have AMD hardware (though very much possible with Intel/NVIDIA) and if you need/want you can use a lightweight wm like openbox.

[@andresvaldevit3692]

I’m following this challenge myself and it took balls! The first graphical bugs I’ll find by just installing the damn os I’m throwing everything out the window… should make a good meme video! BTW Chris love your channel, your one of the most impartial Linux KZbinrs around, I couldn't watch a reaction video from this challenge from anyone else.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

Thanks Andres!

[@jonglass]

The problem with Linux, is that it's not for the casual user. You have to be determined to use Linux and to make it work. You also, IMO, need to be a bit resourceful. Linus is only borderline on the dedicated side--only just barely, IMO. However, contrary to many, I think that Linus doing this is essential for the future of Linux, because he honestly represents a huge number of people who attempt to use Linux, but who give up, and nobody is ever the wiser. We can hope that Linux distro developers will improve the user experience for casual users who want to do things like game, or just anything off the beaten path, but who are not Linux experts or technologically inclined.

[@1pcfred]

Linux brooks no non-hackers.

[@MmeHyraelle]

Even as a non casual user. If my wifi drivers didnt install barring me from using internet, then what's the point?

[@jonglass]

@@MmeHyraelle ha! I actually just had this problem. I installed ElementaryOS on my computer some years ago. Recently I moved to a new house, and don't have any Ethernet here (yet?), and when I booted into ElementaryOS, discovered I don't have wifi drivers installed for my card. (I didn't even own the wireless card when I installed ElementaryOS, and never thought about it). Oh well. I now have a useless partition on my hard drive. So yeah, good point.

[@1pcfred]

@@MmeHyraelle you install the drivers. People that try to install with wi-fi are just making it harder on themselves. It's possible, but harder. Taking the path of least resistance is more sensical. You install wired then you setup the wi-fi. Or you use full media for setup. There's a way to make a special install image too. Which is about as hard as it sounds to do.

[@The_Cyber_System]

Someone linked this video from yesterday's WAN show so I came to check it out. It's refreshing to come see the perspective of someone who has had similar experiences to Linus and Luke, and acknowledges that the new user experience can be horrible in some cases. On the WAN show they spoke about a possible ep.5 of Linux veterans/experts reacting to the series and a possible ep.6 where they do an approximate reverse experiment of Linux veterans trying a Windows challenge. Jank is everywhere and anybody can have a bad user experience when things don't just work the way you want. I suppose it's less of a dealbreaker on Windows because it's more consolidated (less specialised distros of the OS), and the user base is orders of magnitudes larger and so the community resources for finding solutions is thousands of times greater, if not millions. I love what Linux stands for, I really do. I love open-source and the benefits it has for security, privacy, more user-friendly experiences and solutions. But if the new user experience is too overwhelming and frustrating as a barrier to entry then none of that matters. I'm glad to see this reaction and the empathy towards the new-user struggles and confusion - for a lot of people your response is the exception, and I want that to change. As a Windows daily driver for 20 years I want to come to Linux, but the communities need to be better.

[@themomaw]

This video is kind of frustrating. "Shouldn't have done that, that was a mistake". No it wasn't. It's not a mistake if the OS doesn't give you enough to make an informed decision. "He should have used XYZ instead". He doesn't have any clue what that is, or why it's better than JKL or MNO! If there is a clearly superior and better way to do things, *why isn't that the way it comes out of the box*. The biggest reason he kept soldiering on is because he's a content producer that's paid to screw up on camera. A new arrival, somebody who was merely "linux curious" and wondered what it was like, 95% chance they would have bailed the very first time the OS gave them a cryptic error message that requires finding and translating decade-old help documents to fix. Which is apparently about 10 minutes in. Where modern Windows is turning into a padded cell where the nice people take care of you and you're not allowed to touch anything dangerous, modern Linux seems to be a a horror-survival game where you get pushed out into an alien wilderness and try to stay alive without accidentally deleting your save file from clicking on the wrong thing.

[@martijn208]

well said, those kind of things make me realize that that one apple add was maybe right; 'what is a computer?'. the easiest and most user friendly OS's are android, and IOS. they don't let you do anything to brick your device, they take care of it. people should look at an OS like a car, if you can drive a car you can drive any card from the after WW2 and they will basically operate the same. and an OS should be the same.

[@aspzx]

I think you are misinterpreting those "should of" comments. They are not criticism, they are guidance for the uninitiated. As a person who will be installing a Linux system for gaming soon, I find these comments extremely useful. Titus actually praised Linus for his determination in taking on this challenge.

[@trueMCGRaven]

@@aspzx only a minority of the people i saw go "HE SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS OR THAT INSTEAD" was actually trying to be helpful. Many of those actively put blame on Linus for following a guide he found online when he didn't know himself what to do. You know: The thing any sane person would do. If i tried to install steam right now on windows and it went "No this and that is not working" i would google the error and if a guide then said "Do XYZ ignore the warnings they don't mean anything right now" i would do that and possibly be in the same situation. Except that luckily on windows it would go the extra mile and tell me i am a dumb shit with a big fat box in the middle of the screen whereas on Linus' Distro there it was just the same generic white font everything used. Nothing really popped out. Warnings are colorcoded for a reason. If everything looks identical the human brain will not register it as a threat. At least make the "You are about to remove these essential packages" red for fucks sake it isn't rocket science.

[@aspzx]

@@trueMCGRaven right I totally agree with all that but there's no way that Titus is one of those people who are criticising Linus for not heeding the warning he saw. I don't see how he could have expressed more sympathy during that section. He said "that's a Pop_OS bug" and didn't seem to be blaming Linus at all. Maybe you could interpret his "oh no" and hiding behind his hand as if he was cringing at Linus' nativity but I still don't think that counts as criticism. And again, all the "should have" suggestions were really informative and useful to me and that's why I think Titus made them.

[@trueMCGRaven]

@@aspzx oh nono don't misunderstand me: Titus did everything right here. He criticized Linus where applicable but didn't put all the blame exclusively on him for things he wasn't in control of. I was mainly referring to youtube commenters in particular under Linus' original video

[@BoDiddly]

You can't have an Operating System in today's age of Live Streaming, 4K cellphones and Drones without being able to produce multimedia content on it. It's the single most important thing that Apple ALWAYS got right, straight from the beginning.

[@encycl07pedia-]

1. You can produce multimedia on almost all OSes. 2. You don't need to produce multimedia on anything, especially not 4K media. 3. Your use case is rare. 4. You haven't been using Apple for very long, have you? I've been using Apple products off and on since the 1990s. My old Performa would crash almost every session because multitasking was too taxing.

[@argyleandplaidful]

Chris this was awesome! Thanks for making this. Looking forward to you reacting to the rest of the series.

[@lordelliott42]

I'll be following your reactions to this. It's good to get the view of someone who does know what they're doing along with Linus and Luke's new user experience. Actually, Linus should really get Anthony and maybe a few other people to do a complimentary series discussing the issues.

[@andrewzach1921]

He actually came up with this idea on his latest podcast that it would be fun to get some Linux people to react to the videos after they come out.

[@nogoat]

The "Yes, Do as I say" should be replaced with something else, cause from Linus's POV he was trying to installing Steam. So, "Yes, Do as I say" just meant "Yes, Install Steam" and not "Yes, remove my desktop".

[@nagebenfro]

Exactly. I’m amazed how few commentators see this. What he’s doing is installing steam. Does he know what he’s doing? Yes, he knows he’s installing steam. Was that what the question meant? No. But it’s a perfectly valid way to read the question.

[@ExpatZ266]

As a 28 year user of Linux with 25 years of commercial support I love your video. You say all the same things I was thinking while watching the video.

[@lorrygoth]

Lol hearing you talk about command line when Linus has been so vehement in his assertion that being forced to use it should never be necessary for the average user which he is standing in for.

[@abc123number1america]

I mean linus is right my 55 year old dad should not need to learn a second langugage (basically) just to install a email client on his darn pc. Command line is super cool for powerusers but the wast wast majority of pc users never ever need to see it.

[@greghilton7797]

That was like dad watching the kids learn to drive a car for the first time. Loved it!

[@MercUndGut]

I love the reaction at 9:42 haha. I made the same face when I read the message, it's hilarious but also frustrating when you imagine you just torpedoed your GUI :D

[@kpopempire1475]

All linux users go through this. No one is going to hate these guys because we all went through the same thing.

[@dagthewog6290]

And somewhere in the halls of LTT, Linus is considering making a response video to CTT...

[@bubmario]

The commentary is helpful, especially when users who are a little concerned jumping into Linux. Learned a lot from your commentary too!

[@SankoshSaha_01]

The whole linux community got a reality check, especially the purists and those who just say "RTFM" like a broken record.

[@reiii69]

keep the reactions coming !! .

[@graceforged84]

This was done tastefully. You didn't abuse the criticism. I would like you to continue with the reaction series for LLT's Linux challenge.

[@MansakeLabsOfficial]

Chris: "It's made by a guy named 'Clem'" Me: "CLEM"

[@SankoshSaha_01]

CLEM GRAKATA!!!!!!!

[@rustybroomhandle]

@@SankoshSaha_01 Aw, I just uninstalled Warframe and now I'm sad.

[@sloth096]

GRAKATA!

[@erdnussbier4260]

@@rustybroomhandle good decision, stay out. it's just so tiresome to play now, just to erase that feeling of missing out on stuff

[@LedplimmyXD]

@@erdnussbier4260 I quit too cus I got bored of the grindfest. I'll play again when the new missions come out

[@julliansibi]

I think the point of the video is that any normal user shouldn't resort to a command line to do basic tasks. Linux has its charm, but probably won't be used by normal users unless there are distros that are polished and very user-friendly...

[@abc123number1america]

If me just installing steams ends up with me basically nuking my whole PC you know something went wrong along the way.

[@brucewilliams6292]

I appreciate your comments on how to get the system up and running. At the end, it would be great to have you do a complete install that a noob could follow to avoid the pitfalls they have faced.

[@ChrisTitusTech]

Yeah, I need to revisit this type of setup video. I've done it a ton in the past, but it has been a good year or so since I did a new to Linux series.