The Difference Between Japanese and Western Dovetail Joints

[@Doughboy1941]

The main difference between Western and Japanese dovetails is this. Western dovetails are typically "Through dovetails" or "Half blind dovetails". In either example you can see the joinery. Japanese dovetails are what we call in the west "Mitered dovetails" like the ones shown in this video. The dovetails in the mitered joint are hidden. I have been woodworking for some time now and have studied Western and Japanese woodworking techniques. The main difference I have found is that Western woodworkers use more exposed joints where Japanese woodworkers tend to hide all of the joinery. Hope this helps.

[@GYYYO]

Thanks for pointing out the difference! I like the Western dovetails that can be seen, especially if they are tight. I also like the hidden ones also, knowing the dovetail joints are hidden underneath and two pieces of wood just appear to be joined together.

[@skitzochik]

i definately like the western better. i like to see the craftmans work, hiding it seems ... pointless

[@deezynar]

Full-blind dovetails do not have to be as well fitted as those that will be seen, and they rarely are. It is the Japanese aesthetic to not show end grain, so miter joints are very common there. What is not spoken of as often as it should be is that Japanese woodworkers rarely use dense woods. Just watching the videos shows how soft the woods they use are. Paulownia wood is very widely used in Japan, and it's only 3 times denser than balsa, it's crazy.

[@benhernandez1065]

@@deezynar it's all about the end grain. I think the end grain doesn't look good when it's interrupting a nice panel. japanese pieces often look like masterpieces

[@featheroflead2442]

There's also a structural, rather than aesthetic difference. I've been very impressed with how little rackkng these joints experience, though I find them more difficult to make.

[@tozinho1234]

Its allways a pleasure to watch japanese woodworkers, but the title is missleading. There is no difference. its just click bait.

[@tehans77]

I love how he’s wearing a helmet when making the dovetail.

[@skitzochik]

i know right, serious business.

[@joshhaymesdyson12]

He's from the future, he has come to learn the ancient ways.

[@dafodilist]

So what was the difference?

[@deezynar]

Full-blind dovetails do not have to be as well fitted as those that will be seen, and they rarely are. It is the Japanese aesthetic to avoid showing end grain on finished pieces. That means miter joints are very common there, and full-blind dovetailed miter joints are used a lot on casework. What is not spoken of as often as it should be is that Japanese woodworkers rarely use dense woods. Just watching videos of Japanese wood workers shows how soft the woods they use are. For instance, Paulownia wood is very widely used in Japan, and it's only 3 times denser than balsa. If your joint is a little tight in such a soft wood, the fibers will compress as you pound the joint closed. I am not saying that Japanese woodworkers are not skilled, I'm saying that their skill is not as superhuman as it may look. Their tools use much harder steel because they do not encounter hard wood that might chip them. Japanese saws, chisels, and plane blades, can get damaged if they hit a knot in a dense wood like those used in other parts of the world. A Japanese saw, with typical, long, delicate, teeth, can have them bent backwards if they hit a hard knot. And chisels can get chipped if the bevel angle is not made more obtuse that usual. In other words, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Japanese woodworking tools, the woods they use, and the designs they build, are all in alignment with each other, and all are different from those that are typical in Western countries.

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

WOW, good point!

[@HdtvTh]

It is true that full blind dovetails do not require to be perfectly fit ,therefore making them easier actually, however the tools are not as fragile as you say, chisels won't chip even in knots even tho no one should use a chisel in a knot it's a dumb idea to begin with, and the saws won't break if handled properly, if you start pulling and pushing a really thin fine saw like a gorilla of course it's gonna break, you can't actually expect a 0.25 mil saw plate dozuki to be used as a 0.65 or more western back saw, if you need a rough fast cut don't use a fine saw, they do actually have way thicker plates on rough saws, it's just that most saws that make it here are fine cabinet making saws being misused.

[@anamarievivero7774]

大変申し訳ございませんが、日本の大工さんの道具は刀を作っている人が多いです。確かにホームセンターにはさまざまな道具がありますが、大工の拘りと言う物がホームセンターには無いことです。 私の誓い知り合いが日本の代々大工です、その方の大工の道具は特別なものばっかりです。 刀技師が作ったものです。あまり勘違いしないでください！ 何もかも知ったかぶりすると棒に当たりますよ！

[@johncochran8497]

Where's the difference between Japanese and Western dovetails? What I saw was a skilled craftman making dovetail joints accompanied by annoying music. Didn't see any western dovetails, nor a comparison between western and Japanese which is what I expected from the video title.

[@206Seaman]

Ah, Crossman and Sellers would be hard pressed to do what these guys do. And if you don’t like the music, mute it and simply enjoy a talent that takes a life time to achieve.

[@ww-pw6di]

@Nevermind Do you know where you are? Is it a carpentry forum? Do people come to KZbin to purchase chisels and handsaws? Did you just happen to lose your meds and got lost again? It's ok? Granpa?

[@Fendy1]

Nailed it!

[@dafodilist]

They make it look easy, took me a long time as a youth to learn probably take a long time now after not using skills for a long time nice work? Thanks

[@alunmorgan7869]

Excellent

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

Thanks

[@penzalzaink5479]

Thanks for showing us some of your secret art. 👏

[@jerrybrown1446]

So, when buying wood furniture in Japan, how does a person evaluate the quality of the joinery? Someone could sell you a piece with simple miter joints for the price of a blind dovetail.

[@Robert-xp4ii]

I know, I know! The Japanese dovetail looks amazing. 😃

[@TheFlyingMage]

The difference between japanese and western dovetail joints is that one represented in this video and another does not.

[@lanekolton3181]

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[@TheFlyingMage]

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[@rolandbjorn7982]

@Lane Kolton instablaster ;)

[@lanekolton3181]

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[@lanekolton3181]

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[@bluesunflower1698]

That’s superb

[@legendrebernard2549]

Impressive thanks merci

[@davidjacobs8558]

Japanese did not have block planer untill 6th Century AD. Where as block planer was found in Ancient Rome in 2nd Century BC.

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

WOW good point! thanks for that

[@582tird]

Wish they wouldn't speed up the work, plus there are many cuts from other videos spliced together to make this video

[@equinoxproject2284]

Typical Japanese craftsmanship. Do a super high level, intense amount of work....but hide it.

[@chrisyu98]

All very nice until you see the price......

[@moonskyrocket]

I had to turn the music down. No need for background music, guys. Sounds made by tools are soothing.

[@andreicharpentierquesada4530]

I saw that most big difference is that ib western we shows them and japanese in most cases hide them, as a form of japanese carpentry is to only show grain and not engrain, or somerhing like that was what i actually saw

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

Great point!!

[@yematosan8837]

Japanese carpainter is the best carpainter in Warld

[@boleslawszemplinski2549]

Wtf ? ?

[@leonidvalentinovich5215]

Не было раньше эпоксидных смол, вот люди и мучались )

[@thomashawaii]

the big difference is actually the wood.

[@Xorobabel]

You are showing a mitered dovetail which has been in use in the West since the Middle Ages.

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

Good Point! Thanks for setting me straight..

[@Xorobabel]

@@WoodworkingEnthusiasts That's okay. It is true that Japanese woodworkers use concealed dovetails much more than in the West, and also often times more elaborate dovetails as well.

[@TheFlatzz]

1080p option when the video isnt even 1080p :D

[@darrylbrook5968]

And the answer to this click bate "The Difference Between Japanese and Western Dovetail Joints" is yet to be pointed out!

[@frankfraticelli2967]

Sharp chisels much?

[@diGritz1]

It only looks hard cause it is.

[@k.m.alaminbaqee]

Sound quality very low

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

sorry for the hassle

[@Bobbyj438]

Again with the music I couldn’t finish watching

[@meedily]

I think they stumbled upon some unreleased Primitive Radio Gods tracks.

[@leehaelters6182]

Thanks for putting up some footage that I haven't seen before. But no thanks for throwing up just some footage of woodworking, the click bait title, the dreck narration, and even above all, that disgusting noise soundtrack. Yours is the only video I have ever thumbs downed. I know that I can safely ignore anything from you in future. A little intellectual honesty could go a long way.

[@sikosis999]

not sure what to think, i've always just watched the footage on these videos as they rarely represent any actual value in relation to their title and content . . . i dont know if this is first hand work or a bunch of hacked out of region or stock footage with random crap on top of it . . . maybe structure a video to any degree and actually accomplish the task you set in the title and description? i mean its ok to be an enthusiast and make wood porn, just don't infer instruction or opinion and then fail to deliver it in any sense or fashion . . . no continuity, point or purpose i can see in this beyond random footage i've never seen before.

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

yeah, I get it, thanks for letting me know

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

Video much improved by mute button.

[@demarsouthard3620]

I second Bobbyj438 and Gwyn Meade. I had to stop half way through because of the annoying, formulaic, drivel in the soundtrack. With all the beautiful music in the world, if you have to have a soundtrack, couldn't you choose something less annoying? And what's with the title, "Difference between Japanese and western dovetails?" I appreciate the skills of the woodworkers but I expected to learn something about the "difference between Japanese and western dovetails."

[@Ward00]

Second the music. I realize the music may be free, but you could find some better stuff or how about no music PERIOD!

[@gwyn9846]

Documentary was awesome! Background music made me feel like I was chewing broken glass. Please stop ruining greats docs with bad and irritating background music? 🎶 👎

[@moonskyrocket]

Indeed. All we need is the sound of tools and the occasional silence.

[@davogifman542]

There's not really a difference between the two. It's just that Western dovetails are often exposed an highlighted by different colors of wood so the tails give a decorative uniformed pattern an show it's most likely handcrafted. While the Japanese dovetail is almost always mitered,or full-blind; in other words hidden. But in my opinion; their is no difference from a Western Full-blind dovetail,or Secret mitered dovetail; and a Japanese dovetail. An also in my opinion the only real plus to a Full-blind dovetail; is that it's possibly a little bit stronger, because you have slightly more glue area; that an you can charge more money for the finished item. P.S. Did anyone spot the difference between the Western Full-blind Dovetail,and the Japanese Dovetail??? No you didn't did you,because there is none! That an the fact that the video didn't have a Western dovetail in it... So after watching a few of these videos. I don't think I'll be subscribing anytime soon!

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

It's hard to see it but I've found a few good points Davo, thank you for taking the time to comment so well!

[@daveengstrom9250]

The camera work on this video sucks.

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

sorry for the hassle

[@quidestnunc9238]

Are we all going to be forced to listen to your Repetitive Intrusive Distracting Intrusive Repetitive Intrusive Distracting Repetitive Pseudo-music throughout this computer-generated Audio ? Good Bye !

[@WoodworkingEnthusiasts]

yeah, it’s off to a rough start and I've done better though

[@Splash111]

Most Japanese wood is MUCH softer than Western varieties. As per the comment below --they have skill --no doubt ---however their tools often chip and bend on Western Hickory, Hard maplen Birch or Ash.. etc. Japanese use a lot of Cypres (500+ on Janka scale), versus American White Oak 1400+ and Hickory 1,800+) hardness. Thats a HUGE difference in hardness..... Even Walnut at 1000+ is twice as hard. Can't compare apples to oranges. You won't get those long beautiful ultra thin plane shavings on our hardwoods...and cut ultra thin chisel wisps of wood..it's just not going to happen on American hardwood. You may get an extremely skilled Japanese carpenter that is able to do it ---but only with a lot of luck and years of skill. No disrespect intended --their carpenters are second to none --- but cutting cypress is like cutting soap bars compared to hickory or hard maple.

[@cknerr]

so I can hear her comments, have to have sound on. That annoying repetitive theme makes this video not worth watching. Sorry, looks like really skilled craftsman, but that repetitive theme you are using is too annoying. Sis not finish video.

[@bradensinclair9517]

Get some new footage already, all your video's have the same footage just be used over and over again in different video's. So annoying.

[@Ward00]

AD: 5G Free Report. Nice beard; you just need to trim (shape) it up a bit.