The difference between Jimmy Page and today's guitar players

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

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[@EbonyPope]

Please man I urge you please answer me this: I always wanted to ask a guitar teacher that question: Why on earth does nobody talk about how clean his ACOUSTIC playing is compared to his electric??? How in the world did I not even to this day read a single article, interview or else ask Jimmy Page that question??? Sorry for the many questionsmarks but it's truly baffling to me how nobody (including you) never seem to notice the discrepancy between his electric guitar playing and his acoustic work. We all know that most purely electric guitar players struggle when they have to play real solos with good attack on acoustics and that it is generally more difficult. Watch the acoustic sessions of Eddie Van Halen here or Dave Mustaine trying to get a good attack and you'll be horrified how little aggressive attack and good phrasing they are able to deliver in comparison to acoustic players. Sure with practice I'm absolutely confident they could learn it but you definitely perceive that they are struggling. But why is Page the anomaly? Why does his acoustic playing sound more effortless than his electric playing. That is not the case with any electric guitarist I have ever heard. Even at his best he was way more sloppy on electric than on acoustic. Listen to Black Mountain Side. I'm sure there are some flubbed notes too but nothing in comparison to the Heartbreaker solo. He plays at blistering speed with very clean pull offs etc. Is his super low position of his electric guitar to blame? Is it because he started on acoustic actually classical guitar? Please I beg you. If you have a good ear please listen to the recordings and tell me if I'm just hearing things.

[@EbonyPope]

Please man I urge you please answer me this: I always wanted to ask a guitar teacher that question: Why on earth does nobody talk about how clean his ACOUSTIC playing is compared to his electric? How in the world did I not even to this day read a single article, interview or else ask Jimmy Page that question? It's truly baffling to me how nobody (including you) never seem to notice the discrepancy between his electric guitar playing and his acoustic work. We all know that most purely electric guitar players struggle when they have to play real solos with good attack on acoustics and that it is generally more difficult. Watch the acoustic sessions of Eddie Van Halen here or Dave Mustaine trying to get a good attack and you'll be horrified how little aggressive attack and good phrasing they are able to deliver in comparison to acoustic players. Sure with practice I'm absolutely confident they could learn it but you definitely perceive that they are struggling. But why is Page the anomaly? Why does his acoustic playing sound more effortless than his electric playing. That is not the case with any electric guitarist I have ever heard. Even at his best he was way more sloppy on electric than on acoustic. Listen to Black Mountain Side. I'm sure there are some flubbed notes too but nothing in comparison to the Heartbreaker solo. He plays at blistering speed with very clean pull offs etc. Is his super low position of his electric guitar to blame? Is it because he started on acoustic actually classical guitar? Please I beg you. If you have a good ear please listen to the recordings and tell me if I'm just hearing things.

[@MarceloKowalewski]

I always wanted to pose this question to a guitar teacher but on my other account the comment isn't coming through. So let's try this one here: I always wanted to ask a guitar teacher that question: Why on earth does nobody talk about how clean his ACOUSTIC playing is compared to his electric? How in the world did I not even to this day read a single article, interview or else ask Jimmy Page that question? It's truly baffling to me how nobody (including you) never seem to notice the discrepancy between his electric guitar playing and his acoustic work. We all know that most purely electric guitar players struggle when they have to play real solos with good attack on acoustics and that it is generally more difficult. Watch the acoustic sessions of Eddie Van Halen here or Dave Mustaine trying to get a good attack and you'll be horrified how little aggressive attack and good phrasing they are able to deliver in comparison to acoustic players. Sure with practice I'm absolutely confident they could learn it but you definitely perceive that they are struggling. But why is Page the anomaly? Why does his acoustic playing sound more effortless than his electric playing. That is not the case with any electric guitarist I have ever heard. Even at his best he was way more sloppy on electric than on acoustic. Listen to Black Mountain Side. I'm sure there are some flubbed notes too but nothing in comparison to the Heartbreaker solo. He plays at blistering speed with very clean pull offs etc. Is his super low position of his electric guitar to blame? Is it because he started on acoustic actually classical guitar? Please I beg you. If you have a good ear please listen to the recordings and tell me if I'm just hearing things.

[@EbonyPope]

Hey man I left you a longer comment here asking a question I think nobody has EVER posed since I can't find any proof of that being ever discussed. Why is Page's electric playing sloppy but his acoustic stuff like Black Mounstainside which is played at blistering speeds isn't? Why on earth has nobody even mentioned or discussed this? Please man I urge you please answer me. I really need an answer to that.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

@@EbonyPope I don't think we're saying that Page was always sloppy. Just that he was sometimes sloppy. So there are plenty of examples of him playing quite well with no duffed notes. But I would say White Summer/Black Mountain Side is a little sloppy in places, if you mean this version: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKPQkHVqidCUZs0 The fast parts that he plays the best are the phrases with pull offs, which are much easier to do without duffing any notes. All that being said, I love Jimmy Page's guitar playing.

[@BradYaeger]

Best advice I ever got at a gig "The world is full of great guitar players. But there's only a few cool ones . Be a cool one . "

[@bradleyrieger1517]

Most guitarists today are technically rich but musically void.

[@rustyshackleford509]

Nailed it.

[@221b-l3t]

Unlike Page who never stole a riff...

[@ronniejr38s18]

Exactly !!!

[@ronniejr38s18]

@@221b-l3t Right ??? Lol

[@anjinsanx44]

Amd evh was one! He never wrlote anything deep

[@jeremysteinmeier1701]

Dragging a beat is really where the pocket lies. No one wants to hear midi play a solo.

[@BeGoodBe]

I like slightly before the beat.

[@jeremysteinmeier1701]

@BeGoodBe hitting early gives the music a driving high-energy feel. It's all good.

[@SquirrelDarling1]

You are right

[@jimbaxter8488]

Actually a good soloist pushes, lags and drags

[@BeGoodBe]

@jimbaxter8488 This is true but I think I just favour slightly before. Might be bias as I'm ever so slightly before naturally lol

[@tonydeaton1967]

Early on, Page was a powerhouse guitar player. Too me, The Song Remains the Same has some of the greatest live rock guitar ever recorded. By about 1975-77, he was struggling with heroin addiction and his playing suffered immeasurably. By 1980 it had become dismal. Still, for me, he's definitely one of the most influential artists of all time. His fingerprints are all over modern music. Much respect.

[@CarlosTVilla]

Absolutely spot on. EVH's childish comment appeared to be referencing Jimmy's heroin period (which his playing has unfortunately never recovered from)

[@davederoux3361]

maybe the two greatest live solos of all time...stairway and no quarter..most definitely the height of his powers

[@tonydeaton1967]

@@davederoux3361 Especially the solo during No Quarter. We used to push that thru our PA system cranked up and the tone and power of it was completely off the hook.

[@davederoux3361]

@@tonydeaton1967 Yeah man, it just evolves into sheets of sonic colrs and sounds..not even notes any more. definitely channeling from a different place. Go watch Martin Miller cover it. He is supposeto be one of the top guitarists today and you can see he doesn't have a clue he's completely lost. These schooled shredders today are completely missing the point.

[@tonydeaton1967]

@@davederoux3361 The modern shredders of today are stuck riding the wave of Edward Van Halen. It's why almost all of them fall by the wayside. Led Zeppelin, still today , heavily influences young rock musicians.

[@Iain-t2m]

99.9% of guitarists would love to be as good as Page at his “sloppiest”.

[@wordup897]

Count me in.

[@redpine8665]

I remember Page saying that The Song Remains the Same is "filled with howling mistakes". The "No Quarter" solo aside, "How the West was Won" is much better live concert. Ferocious.

[@antoonhermans8953]

yep

[@lucashenry7293]

Hell no

[@jcivantos]

99.99999%

[@arnesaknussemm2427]

Correction, the riff for Black Dog was written by John Paul Jones.

[@jeremywanner4526]

And Moby Dick

[@glenjakejacob41]

@@jeremywanner4526 Which was obviously derived from Bobby Parker’s 1961 hit “Watch Your Step.”

[@ayomordep]

Both songs were produced by Jimmy Page

[@arnesaknussemm2427]

@ your point being?

[@Domn879]

@@jeremywanner4526A whale co-wrote a guitar riff?

[@lanatrzczka]

"So many memorable riffs that Jimmy wrote" ... plays a John Paul Jones riff.

[@bucklberryreturns]

🤭

[@utherpendragon4227]

Saw that too

[@BBaldwin]

Bingo

[@MGuitarZ77]

Haha. Thought that immediately

[@tonyb8660]

[@HollisDuty60]

I was blessed to have been a teenager in the 1970’s. I became a Led Zeppelin fan in 1969 when my brothers bought Led Zeppelin I and played it constantly. I also saw them Live in Concert, Tampa 1973. In the 60’s and 70’s we experienced music, felt the emotions, were amazed at how the music was changing. We didn’t think about technical perfection. Unless you were at a Led Zeppelin concert, not a KZbin video, I don’t think you can fully understand how mind blowing the musical experience was. The charisma, the chemistry, the raw talent, the personalities, of four supremely talented men, standing on a stage with their equipment right there with them, no auto tune, no computers, no lip syncing, no backup singers or dancers, no costume changes - giving you everything they had for 3 hours plus. I have never experienced a concert like that since. You literally were in a trance, a state of being, hearing that wall of sound - and I wasn’t drinking or doing drugs lol (maybe a contact high 😂). If you want to call Jimmy Page a sloppy player live, so be it. I experienced him live and it was life changing.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

I can believe it, very cool. Thanks for sharing!

[@grimmertwin2148]

You're too clever for KZbin. Well written

[@HollisDuty60]

@grimmertwin2148 thanks

[@soapboxearth2]

I used to play my solos slightly behind the beat on purpose. I didn't think anyone noticed , and then I started getting complimented about it. And evh was an asshole lol

[@bluzedogg]

In slow blues, you play in front of the beat and behind the beat. I guess mostly a little behind the beat though.we God damn sure don't quantize every note. human beings do not play perfectly on every note. you made a good point here is what I'm trying to say.

[@mikepretorius6350]

That is damn difficult to do on purpose and then move it around 👍

[@potato9832]

They did Michael Anthony dirty. I used to believe them when they said Dave was the problem. Then Sammy was the problem. Then Michael was the problem. I now think those VH bros were the problem.

[@victorwilburn8588]

I acknowledge that EVH is a highly influential and skilled guitarist, and that I am in the (tiny) minority, but his playing just doesn't move me. He too often sounds like he's more interested in showing off fretboard athleticism than in playing with emotion and artistry.

[@bluzedogg]

@@victorwilburn8588 She is not a lead guitar player and he never was a lead guitar player. He was never very musical. Just bombastic Showmanship and it was kind of cool but it was never lead guitar.

[@brianrowland55]

Thank you for saying this Blue! It needs to be said more often. There's too much criticism and expectation of perfection instead of praising the groove and feeling.

[@henryb160]

Even Segovia would sound sloppy if he'd downed a bottle of Jack Daniels and played his guitar just below his kneecaps!

[@Stublinsky]

Yeah, but Segovia would never be so appallingly selfish and inconsiderate to down a bottle of hard alcohol and go on stage and suck ass the way Jimmy Page did !

[@ZalMoxis]

@@Stublinsky Can you please sign your album cover for me next time you're on a world tour out my way....

[@AlbertoJorgeSoares]

@@Stublinsky lol

[@HocusPocus6969]

….and hadn’t slept in month.

[@intenzityd3181]

Let's be real he would still be 10x the player Page was. Pretty sure Holdsworth did more than a few gigs after a few pints and was still on a different galactic plane to Page. I just don't get the cultist veneration for him... I like metallica, I don't kid myself that KH is anything more than a very limited and generic metal player. The way boomers venerate Page is childish to me, haven't they heard any jazz guitarists of that era???

[@w1o2l3f4i5e]

I am lucky enough to have seen Led Zeppelin live in the early 1970s. I wasn’t paying attention to Jimmy’s technical ability, I was in the moment letting the music wash over me, along with the thousands of fans that were there.

[@tonyb8660]

as was I not trying to levitate out of the oakland coliseum way too many times LMAO

[@KevinHallSurfing]

Saw them Feb '72 in Sydney. They played for 3 hrs 20 mins and guarantee not one of the 35,000+ left early. They were at their peak, musically tight and having fun. Plant "You keep clapping we'll keep playing" and they did.

[@tonyb8660]

@KevinHallSurfing fkn historic holy crap

[@tonyb8660]

@KevinHallSurfing an entire lifetimes' worth in one go... if you can remember it lol

[@lucasdeaver9192]

Its important to remember, and this is true for Jimi Hendrix as well, that when he played live he liked to perform and jump around the stage, that introduces mess ups. His genius is in how versatile was in the studio and created a wide range of sounds and textures without fancy equipment. Always experimenting, which was a lot more acceptable or even expected than it is today.

[@DashRiprock513]

It just depends how wasted everyone was.... The audience was wasted, the band was wasted and we all had a good time.

[@commentfreely5443]

guy from a studio i visited said he saw led zep live and on the 1st song page and plant were playing and singing different songs cause they were so wasted

[@HocusPocus6969]

Lol, like waking up sober at a Grateful Dead ‘concert’.

[@tonyb8660]

it's like the square root of -1, as long as you're using imaginary numbers, all is well LOL

[@richdebene]

Never happened. I gave at least 500 zep shows on tape. Ask the guy exactly what concert. There aren’t many that are not on tape.

[@kaptkrunchfpv]

Jimmy Page can make me cry with 3 notes and one of them can be wrong. Its the MUSIC not the TAB.

[@peterknicked]

He can make me cry after three notes because he was so sloppy. That being said I love Led Zep.

[@mishagasparovsky196]

​@@peterknickednonsense.anyway, being sloppy is nothing bad. If you are real musician. Jimmy is certainly one of those

[@mcampbell5158]

Jimmy Page is who inspired me to want to play guitar. He was sloppy, but he was cool, the mystique was a big part of why he was great. I always liked that he played both acoustic and electric, crazy open tunings. I am a huge fan of bands who aren't confined to one style and Jimmy was not. I had a neighbor who was a shredder, he loved the shredders, EVH. Stevie Via, etc. he was a cocky prick and he would always rip on Jimmy Page for being sloppy and say he sucked. People like that are clueless. The good thing about everything in life, we are all allowed to like what we like and I still after 40 years love Jimmy Page, always will.

[@FuwaFuwaOfficial]

"we are all allowed to like what we like" as long as they align with what YOU like, apparently.

[@chachoadame8830]

You are so Right , Page is mire than just a Guitar Playera he is a consumate Artist !!!!

[@eflows]

“Sloppy” = plays actual music by humans

[@latheofheaven1017]

I decided to learn Jimmy's solo in Stairway to Heaven a couple of weeks ago. It is surprising how simple it is really, but it works so, so well. Relevant to what you're saying about sloppiness though, what note was he going for at the start f the second to last phrase. It's a bend that ends up nowhere! No surprise that the lead guitar is pretty much buried in the mix at that point! But still, it's the perfect solo for the song. Absolutely iconic.

[@tomneal1789]

So true...the Stairway "bend to nowhere" lmao! And here I am still struggling to emulate it!

[@balthazor44]

You don't become one of the most in-demand session players in London by being sloppy. Session players are valued for their ability to get it right the first time.

[@dangavel1283]

That was VERY early on, the rot set in as soon as he discovered H and had the money to indulge himself to his hearts content .

[@clay-tw5gc]

@@balthazor44 That is true. However, Jimmy Page was not a session player; he was an innovative player.

[@TheKitchenerLeslie]

@@clay-tw5gc No, Jimmy was a session player before he joined The Yardbirds. He played on a lot of hit records before anyone knew his name. He played on records by The Who and The Kinks, as well as many others. You can find a collection of his session work on KZbin

[@TheKitchenerLeslie]

@@dangavel1283 Wrong. Rosin from a violin bow makes your strings sticky. That's partly why he was sloppy.

[@clay-tw5gc]

@TheKitchenerLeslie I didn't know that. I appreciate you letting me know. But he went from session player to innovative player. There is a huge difference. Session players play what from what is on the sheet while an innovative player plays from what is felt deep inside.

[@leokimvideo]

Only the true masters understand using variations, Paul McCartney / Lennon did it constantly in the Beatles. Jimmy Page understood fully the risk / reward equation of not playing like a robot or exactly how a song is recorded.

[@EbonyPope]

Please man I urge you please answer me this: I always wanted to ask a guitar teacher that question: Why on earth does nobody talk about how clean his ACOUSTIC playing is compared to his electric??? How in the world did I not even to this day read a single article, interview or else ask Jimmy Page that question??? Sorry for the many questionsmarks but it's truly baffling to me how nobody (including you) never seem to notice the discrepancy between his electric guitar playing and his acoustic work. We all know that most purely electric guitar players struggle when they have to play real solos with good attack on acoustics and that it is generally more difficult. Watch the acoustic sessions of Eddie Van Halen here or Dave Mustaine trying to get a good attack and you'll be horrified how little aggressive attack and good phrasing they are able to deliver in comparison to acoustic players. Sure with practice I'm absolutely confident they could learn it but you definitely perceive that they are struggling. But why is Page the anomaly? Why does his acoustic playing sound more effortless than his electric playing. That is not the case with any electric guitarist I have ever heard. Even at his best he was way more sloppy on electric than on acoustic. Listen to Black Mountain Side. I'm sure there are some flubbed notes too but nothing in comparison to the Heartbreaker solo. He plays at blistering speed with very clean pull offs etc. Is his super low position of his electric guitar to blame? Is it because he started on acoustic actually classical guitar? Please I beg you. If you have a good ear please listen to the recordings and tell me if I'm just hearing things.

[@michal9508]

Well, idk, but I think Page played acoustic way more than EVH, that might be the first reason. Secondly, playing sloppy fingerpicking on acoustic just won't sound good, but playing sloppy the Heartbreaker solo is the reason why it sounds so cool so he might just focus more on playing clean on his acoustic. Thirdly, I don't think there was that big difference between his acoustic and electric guitar playing in terms of how sloppy it was if we talk about studio recordings. I think Page playing solos in the studio sounded mostly really clean on electric, but the reason why he is called sloppy are his live performances, which were never that clean as what he did in studio. I think sloppy playing on electric guitar can create a certain character, raw energy that you can hear mostly on Led Zeppelin II, but from Led Zeppelin III on he sounds really clean in studio. His acoustic work was also sometimes a bit sloppy, I never saw it that way that he would play acoustic more clean, he just got sloppy live, because he was doing some crazy things with his electric guitar and he improvised a lot, later he was on drugs.

[@leocomerford]

@@michal9508Yes, I’d assume that the answer is partly that acoustic-guitar flubs are more noticeable and more annoying so Page would be more careful with his acoustic tracks, and record additional takes (or drop-ins?) if necessary.

[@ericnekli7631]

Stevie Ray Vaughan also sounded incredible on acoustic guitars. His playing style translates very well to acoustic, because he played a guitar with a high string action anyway and always had an angry attack on the strings, plenty of rhythm and dynamics in his phrasing. Also Rory Gallagher comes to mind if we're talking about acoustic guitar playing. I think the more an electric player is rooted in the blues, the better his playing will translate to acoustic. I think part of Page's sloppy playing is a stylistic choice, for even on the albums it sounds raw and unpolished. The rest is attributable to being high off his socks.

[@EbonyPope]

@@ericnekli7631 No it's not a stylistic choice. Page was very clear about that he wished he would have been able to play certain solos cleaner. A good chunk is therefore unlistenable to me. There is sloppy and then there is amateurish and a good chunk of his live performances fall under that catergory.

[@tulmar4548]

The question is, did he cut his teeth on an acoustic. Most players don't, they start on electric and can hide behind effects and struggle somewhat moving to an acoustic. We look at acoustics and electrics as the same instrument but they most certainly are not. They are two different animals that need two very different things. Slash comes to mind , good electric guitar player , fkn terrible acoustic player, just look at the slash and myles Kennedy acoustic sessions.

[@K-Gits]

The difference between Jimmy Page and today's guitar players is that Jimmy Page is a fucking Legend and they're not and never will be.

[@utherpendragon4227]

I think EVH here is the primary villain saying Page was sloppy. Who is legendary in a way. Disclaimer: I don’t like Van Halen but as a hobbyist I like EVH, his harmonics and rhythm are memorable, worthy of admiration but not his songs, songs page all the way, the entire VH catalog can’t match any top 5 Led Zep album

[@teachmeguitar4149]

Most accurate opinion ever written

[@richardschwarz7907]

Jimmy was living in Bahia state in Brazil at some point and not knowing who he was in a local get-together, someone put an acoustic guitar in hia lap, Jimmy strummed some chords and people said, he does not know how to play take that guitar from him... 😂 I.must have been hilarious

[@teachmeguitar4149]

@@K-Gits most accurate opinion ever written.

[@iananslow494]

How true

[@StevenMatto]

Page, Blackmore, Hendrix, Frehley (In the 70's)...all sloppy as Hell, but amazing

[@sense1240]

Blackmore was the only one who was moderately consistent live. Hendrix and Page were either amazing or terrible live, very little in between. Frehley rarely jammed or improvised like the others, so it was less noticeable imo.

[@repetitivemotion]

I wouldn’t say Blackmore was sloppy. Technically he was like a razor blade.

[@pakoti96]

Blackmore is the black sheep, as always, because he went WILD live. He absolutely did not give a frick. He knew he was the best player technically by a mile so he played sloppy and chose weird notes on purpose. I think this quote of his is relevant here: "Joe Satriani is a brilliant player, but I never see him really searching for notes; I never hear him playing a wrong note. Jimi Hendrix used to play lots of wrong notes because he was searching all the time-'Where the hell is that correct note?!' And when he did find that right note-wow, that was incredible. If you're always playing the correct notes, there's something wrong-you're not searching, you're not reaching for anything..."

[@Johnnysmithy24]

It was the standard back then

[@patepulkkinenvtec2403]

Only that Blackmore had the emotion AND the technique to play really fast, faster things that Page could never dream of.

[@destroso]

1:51 Eddie wishes he had a catalog like Led Zeppelin

[@FlipSideCT]

Nice to see thanks. Some RnR fans need to get over the perfection. Right, about the groove. RnR needs some nastiness and crunch! We can not forget how much session playing he performed for so many others! cheers

[@diegosalazar25]

4:13 there definitely is a good thing such as good sloppy

[@froloffanton]

Who wouldn't want their career to be playing pentatonics at massive arenas, blissfully zonked out on various substances, with nobody being wiser if you missed a note or a hundred as long as you delivered a great live experience? Nowadays that's not possible in the way it was before, as people post every concert on social media, forever to be laughed at if you had an off night. At that point your career is pretty much done, if the thing you become known as is not sounding like the record or playing off time with the backing track.

[@jamestreible4545]

F may not be in the A minor pentatonic scale, but it IS in the A aeolian scale, which the chord progression is in during the solo. That's why the F fits in so well.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

True indeed :)

[@kickstar1]

What made Page so exciting is he played and soloed at the edge of what he was capable of so it had an emotional intensity to it you cannot get when it's stuff you can play in your sleep.

[@SusanBlakely-pd6mp]

I read an interview with JP in an a 70s magazine called Trouser Press? I think and his advice to young guitarists was to avoid open strings because you can't transmit feeling with them. Which is a great attitude. 'To Play a Wrong Note is insignificant ; To Play without Passion is inexcusable.'

[@jwright8838]

Gridded music is terrible....just take an AC/DC, Led Zep, or Rolling Stones song and grid it. It sounds lifeless and robotic.

[@kingsteven9128]

Like Eric Clapton’s playing

[@jwright8838]

@@kingsteven9128 Not a Clapton fan, eh?....lol.

[@zumo9440]

Thanks for giving me a name for what i’ve unintentionally been doing for a while now 😊

[@kyleolin3566]

Jimmy Page worked for years as a studio musician. He could play perfectly, clean, on time, but Rock & Roll is supposed to be dirty.

[@Klostrum-j7y]

What makes Paige so great is not his technical ability although he has it in spades, but the fact that he wrote so many incredible songs which are heavily guitar based. He may not shred like the best, may not have the musical and technical ability to play many different styles, but he's one of the greats for his composing ability and his unique and identifiable sound.

[@randykintzley5923]

When you swing big, you inevitably miss big sometimes. Same is true for Hendrix. On the right nights though, these people tapped into something magical and we're all still in awe of it. Swing away Jimmy, Swing away.

[@BBaldwin]

The “Heartbreaker” solo is a landmark guitar hero moment-warts and all. The “Whole Lotta Love” solo is pure perfection. Jimmy has played some of the greatest solos ever put to wax. His technique, or “lack” thereof, is not an issue in the studio material and live, well..he was typically under the influence, which explains his off nights. Besides, we also have to consider the profound difficulty in adapting often complex, layered studio recordings to alive environment with only four musicians. “Achilles Last Stand” is a perfectly example. How they pulled that off live is a minor miracle.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

Agreed :)

[@sotiristsamandanis6424]

Zeppelin in Germany 73 just before they hit the Garden for TSRTS shows. Listen to Page on these shows ,bootlegs..absolutely jaw dropping fluidity and feel and telepathy with Bonham..also 71 and 72 in Japan fantastic playing..definitely his peak ,but hes always had that swagger that so many dont have. Angus Young is another fantastic player with the swing and swagger.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

Good example, Angus Young. Thank you!

[@alasdairstuart3394]

Great video, completely agree with all of it. He was no Van Halen or Steve Vai or…but he was a great song writer and producer and the emotion and power behind the tunes carry the music every time. Legend.

[@vpfund]

As Rick Beato says,” You know what they used before Pro Tools….pros!” All this quantized manufactured crap doesn’t move me. Just about any track from Zep gets me going!

[@cgood-qr8gc]

this was a great video for real. i like the analogies you used in this one.

[@tonyb8660]

I will say unequivocally that technical prowess and slop are the things that make it all go boom

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

Well said, thanks for that :)

[@victorwilburn8588]

And shredding isn't the only way to be technical. Listen to the rhythm tracks of "Ramble On", for instance, where he starts with a simple E chord (voiced as a barre chord rooted on the 5th string, but also sounding the open low E string for a super-resonant RR5R35 voicing that follows the overtone series), but has about a million different ways to voice, alter, and extend it all in the context of a steady 16th-note patter strum.

[@marmadukewinterbotham2599]

The Rolling Stones have made a whole career of being all over the shop playing-wise.

[@curiousuranus810]

Particularly that, so-called, lead singer.

[@mikebaum5976]

Soul can't be taught, feeling your playing..ex: if you are broken hearted..or angry, or mad, or depresed..it effects your playing...it's beautiful.

[@peterreeves6825]

It's Rock and Roll, it's supposed to be sloppy.

[@EbonyPope]

A little bit yes. But not Heartbreaker levels of sloppy. That is just painful. And Jimmy knows it. He openly admits that he would like to have some things better. And I'm confident he could because he played other similarly hard solos much better live when he was practicing. It's just a shame. Because some of the concerts are unlistenable to me thanks to his super sloppy stuff. It really hurts.

[@fviannaval]

Yeah, tell that to Ritchie Blackmore, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton and Robin Trower.

[@slashtrio]

@@fviannaval well I don’t think they guys played the same type of rock n roll as zeppelin. Zeppelin was a harder rocking band and had more of an off the rails vibe to them. I personally dig that. I love old Clapton stuff too (beano album, some cream, and his blues album from the 90s) but most if his solo rock stuff is kind of boring and sterile. Neck is great too obviously but if all rock was like that it would be boring. Some people like the energy of 70s punk, 90s alternative, and even late 80s / early 90s GnR. If you want perfection and your favorite bands are bands like rush then it’s probably not appealing to you. I like a little dirt with my rock.

[@fviannaval]

@ I love Zeppelin, they are my favourite band by far, but I don’t think it would hurt their sound if Jimmy played a little better live. I love punk, but even the Pistols and the Ramones were super precise, no sloppiness there. It all depends on what you’re proposing with your music. If it’s a guitar solo, why not put in the effort?

[@slashtrio]

@ yea, fair point. I’m not a huge zep fan so I haven’t really watched / listened to a lot of the live shows, just bits here and there. Maybe he was too sloppy at times. I was a huge pistols fan as a kid and even covered their songs as a teen, and I suppose they weren’t too sloppy but the solo work was quite simple. I think the sloppy raw thing can work for certain bands at certain times. I was all about punk as a teen and didn’t like 80s hair bands. But then I saw GnR live at the ritz 88 on MTV and became a huge fan. Slash played well here and there but was often sloppy and seemingly wasted. But my teenage brain ate it up. It was off the rails. Had the edge of punk but a bit more musicianship and some bluesy guitar solos. But I guess if they always played that way it wouldn’t be cool. Time and a place I guess.

[@ropersnoop]

Eddie Van Halen ALSO said he got the idea for 'Eruption' from watching Page play 'Heartbreaker' live. Steve Vai also cites it as his favourite solo ever. Page's influence is unmatched. He walked so the next generation could run. Having said all that, I'd still listen to Led Zeppelin II over anything by any shredder, any day. It just (still) sounds cool as fuck

[@stephenmahlstedt7276]

Great video, man! Like you said, there are thousands of shredders these days that are technically way more advanced than Jimmy, but I don’t listen to any of them, and I’ll be listening to Jimmy’s studio recordings for the remainder of my years. Well, I do listen to one contemporary shredder, and that’s Matteo Mancuso. That dude writes some beautiful music!

[@user-ym4fn5rl7c]

Rarely do today's speed demons ever compose anything with character and substance that will stand the test of time. Amateur metal bands of today also try to sound too much like their heroes and pout because they are not going anywhere. Being generic does not raise the attention of those with discerning ears. 99% of modern popular music is disposable rubbish that will be forgotten in few weeks and that's if it even lasts that long.

[@gmac8852]

Mancuso is off the chain.

[@tomberinati2131]

Well, although Jimmy was self taught and become an in demand studio musician when he was like 20 and joined the Yardbirds when he was 22 and wrote and recorded Led Zeppelin I when he was 24 and wrote the most memorable rock anthem of all time when he was 26 , ya know , the Stairway thing , his playing even in the studio was born of improvisation and live performance , being explorative and experimental with continual exposure to a wealth of evolving contemporary and classical music influences. To think of his songwriting and playing evolve you can hear how he is in front of his music and in the moment even in his more intricate compositions as he matured. Later on he suffered from excesses and so on as too many talented artists did and affected his work overall. Yes, in the old days there was no grid or click track and Zeppelin played the basic tracks together all in a room before overdubbing vocals and guitar solos . That said, between the writing recording producing performing and partying no one else played like Jimmy - if it can be said that there is only one rock god it is him 🤘

[@muffinman1978]

Amen. And if Hendrix tried to make it today, they’d say no just because of his singing.

[@Jaggerbush]

0:20 thats not how you play whole lotta love.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

It's a riff, not a museum.

[@Aquotin]

accidently dislikes for some reason

[@David-j1x]

I'd rather hear Jimmy Page pluck a single string for twenty minutes then listen to most of today's "artists" play for an hour.

[@carlburnett5986]

Jimmy Page could play exceptional solos, an example is Since I’ve Been Loving You. But I think he excelled in production and composition. The guitar work/overlays on Ten Years Gone (their best song, no arguments please) is breathtakingly beautiful.

[@cam_ferguson_official]

Where I agree; the undisputed riff master is and always will be Jimmy Page... however the main riff of Black Dog was written by John Paul Jones. As iconic a riff that it is in the Zeppelin catalogue, it's unfortunately not a good example to cite for Page's riff writing prowess

[@kiljoy3254]

I think Tony Iommi came up with the greatest riffs… Looking For Today, Killing Yourself To Live, Spiral Architect, All Moving Parts, Supernaut etc etc

[@ShredForth]

@@kiljoy3254yeah it’s without a doubt Tony Iommi…..

[@spiritualhammer392]

Toni Iommi clobbered Jimmy Page with riffs.

[@cam_ferguson_official]

I mean y’all can start a flame war over this if you want, and respect to your opinions… but nah. Whether you wanna gauge musical diversity, catchiness, the sheer body of work, the fact that like 90% of songs on Zep’s first 6 albums get considerable airplay to this day… Page absolutely dominates.

[@kiljoy3254]

@@cam_ferguson_official yes I think I largely agree with that but we were talking specifically about riffs. Incidentally my favourite riff is Mark Knooflr’s Money For Nothing (the song itself, not so much), I also particularly like lesser known riffs like Ohio by Neil Young, Peace Frog by The Doors, Can’t You Hear Me Knocking, Keith Richards. My favourite Page riffs are probably Heartbreaker, The Rover, and maybe No Quarter… I also like The Ocean but as far as riffs go not a lot else really stands out, though obviously I understand the appeal of Whole Lotta Love

[@roboliver9980]

Technical and cold isn’t what gives music especially rock soul. Plus many guitarists may be brilliant at copying other musicians perfectly but have never created anything new or noteworthy. Zeppelin lives on.

[@andyetheridge6269]

Well said.Too many people about who criticise other guitarists….it’s not a competition to be the best,just enjoy playing the thing,good or bad.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

I've worked with metal guys. They are always mortally afraid of what other guys think of them. I would say "forget playing to guys! Play to chicks!" and they'd look at me as if I'm nuts.

[@brianm850]

Hey Blue… a fellow Vancouverite here. I hope you’re managing to stay dry. I’ve never subscribed to a KZbin channel, despite the fact that I watch quite a bit. But I felt compelled to subscribe here, for a few reasons. I first picked up a guitar when my father bought me one when I was a teenager. He did so because a few years earlier he bought me a drum kit, which I took to right away. To this day I’m a fairly solid drummer. But he didn’t appreciate the racket I would cause playing drums in our basement with the Led Zeppelin cranked up to 10 so I could play along. So the guitar was an attempt to distract me from the drums. It didn’t work. So being a drummer first, my rhythm guitar playing took off pretty quickly. For years I’ve been pretty good at the “cowboy” chords and the bar chords and even a few extended. But triads, arpeggios and pentatonic shapes were like a different language to me. Possibly Greek… or Aramaic. I’m 60 now and far too old to learn a new language. But in recent years I started looking at guitar learning channels, but they all fell into either the “learn the whole fretboard in 10 minutes” category or an accomplished guitarist outlining what one needs to practice… but they were speaking another language as well. What they described sounded like a sheer cliff face and I’m no mountain climber. Then I found your channel. Your laid back style and easy communication methods got me engaged right away. The odd joke here and there… but mostly you were able to break down these fairly complex concepts into bite sized pieces along with a straightforward explanation of why certain things were worth practicing until you get it down cold. As of today after only a few weeks of watching your lessons, I’m getting somewhat fluid soloing around in minor pentatonic and working on major now. So thank you! I hope I run into you in Vancouver some day so I can thank you in person. Your channel has shaken me loose from the rut I was in. I hope you’ll continue to post these for a long time to come. Sorry for the long message.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

Thank you Brian!

[@jagmark10]

Jimmy Page would blow any guitarist off the stage today. same with John Bonham, he was the thunder of drums. Johnny Ramone is another good example of a real guitar hero that needs more attention. not many people can play his style, it's very, very hard to play, yet looks easy with the same chords from song to song. i think the biggest difference between Jimmy Page and the rest of us is: he's Jimmy Page and we're not. what a legend, i hope he shows his guitar collection some day. i bet he got some crazy rare guitars.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

"He's Jimmy Page and we're not"... well said :)

[@carlosimotti3933]

The answer to the "sloppy" remark (made by nerds who have no clue about art anyway) is very simple: Jimmy Page was immaculately clean on acoustic. On electric that's the sound and grit he was going after, and in fact he was incendiary. He had been a premiere session musician and arranger since age 16, when you had to nail an entire track in 3 takes and do it perfectly clean cause distortion and jamming hadn't nearly entered the conversation. His real (and only, apart from later drug use) problem in live solos was ironically the same as "shredders": that he tended to go his own way with improvisation and quit interacting with his bandmates, except for occasional duets with Plant.

[@Stublinsky]

Yeah, I bet Jimmy Page could have taught Paco de Lucia a thing or two about paying the acoustic guitar ! LOL !!!!!

[@kellybeane7546]

Jimmy's playing always went with the song and what sounded cool

[@michaeloconnor5084]

My brother and I were one day attempting to broaden the musical horizons of a younger music fan. We played a few live recordings by our personal favorite guitarist, Frank Zappa. The kid told us straight up that Frank’s playing was, “sloppy”. I looked at my brother and told him, “Sloppy’ must be some new slang term for ‘REALLY GOOD’”. That was 25 years ago but to this day if we hear anything good for any reason, we call it “sloppy”.

[@BeatSyncBytes]

Jimmy has swag honestly

[@thejollyjoker187]

If only, every single recording ever made was LIVE, it would separate the musicians and the trash so easily..

[@nimitz1739]

Yep it’s organic! That’s why I hate musicians who say you have to use a click track to record. A lot of the songs we love from back in my day was recorded live

[@TheKitchenerLeslie]

Exactly. That's the John Kalodner: John Kalodner School of Hit-making! Kalodner made Jimmy use a click track on Coverdale/Page... and it sucks the soul out of everything. Kalodner is also famous for ruining Aerosmith.

[@rayclark7963]

I played drums for 20 years. When our crowd wasn't feeling us, I would SLOWLY, but infinitely increase the tempo to light speed. My band mates AND the crowd LOVED IT. It was a real attention getter.

[@josealbaposse]

Vivan los “sloopies” . Harto de la música perfectamente editada que es inhumana. Gracias Blue! Buenísimo

[@JU5TINPDX]

It’s like saying an impressionist painter, like Monet, was sloppy… sometimes it’s a stylistic choice. In a blues song like “since I’ve been loving you”, a song about a man who’s distraught over his relationship… Page’s guitar is basically playing the roll of the man’s emotions, and this man is upset. Some of his words and thoughts are “sloppy”… he doesn’t have a concise, perfectly worded statement about his pain and distress. His playing is appropriately imperfect.

[@devinreese1397]

If someone ever says Page is sloppy, they either do not know how to play a guitar well, so they have no idea, or they do not understand the concept of improvisation.

[@RaineyDaysStudio]

That’s just not true. By todays standards of professional play, Page isn’t clean

[@RaineyDaysStudio]

Also improvisation has nothing to do with sloppiness.

[@adamrobbins4683]

Groove is what's most important in rock, the rest is much, much less important. It's about creating a dance with the instrument, and looser playing, at times, is a big part of creating a dance that feels good to the listener

[@stanbrown915]

No...he was sloppy live....but it sure was great though

[@rollonickels4581]

He has always been a limited and sloppy player, and I understand the concept of improvisation well :) Great mind, great producer, great riffs, deserves accolades. Sloppy blues improviser. How clean he was on acoustic or planned out electric parts isn't relevant.

[@jayyy1041]

He will always be my favorite guitarist. Years later. I didnt know time feel was a word but thats literally it. He intentionally plays off just right enough that it sounds 10x better. Its drunk and bluesy and its done on purpose, sober or drunk. It has a totally organic feel. During a flurry of very well selected and clever notes, he knows when to not play a note to make it sound better; to add to that mystical element. He knows when to let the tone breathe. The articulated crunch that his les paul and marshalls deliver is the other half of his incredible sound that extremely few players these days seem to understand or even scratch the surface of because it requires a loud tube amp, and it requires an expensive handcrafted guitar, and people today dont like either of those things. The absolute peak of his guitar playing and distinct sound would have to be their performances at paris theater 1971

[@johnmikk1495]

When that whole wave of Van Halen, Malmsteen, Steve Vai, among other technical guitarists started, people started to think in a technical, dull and perfectionist way, not everything, or almost nothing, is about technique, but feeling a guitar riff, a solo, feeling a bass line, feeling a groove, feeling the music, expressing yourself, the bands of the 60s/70s were about that, the ability and creativity to express yourself by being "simple".

[@user-lq9mw1sb8d]

I don't understand where the "no feeling" sentiment comes from towards those players. See Yngwie live you can tell he has plennnty of emotion. He hardly looks at the fretboard or thinks of what he's doing. He's very close to "raw" emotion.

[@patepulkkinenvtec2403]

But what if "simple" things don't always move you emotionally? Maybe it's good to have the chops to play fast things if needed to. The problem is that the likes of Yngwie forget that having the technique to play something doesn't mean you always need to do it.

[@Nissardpertugiu]

Also as opposite to what people say, Eddie but also Yngwie even on his accuracy was very rock n roll live. The attack, the improv, and even in Yngwie hey day, not every show is totally perfect. Especially within that showmanship. Not just his early demos, but some Yngwie stuff sounds thrashy on few right hand rough sound in riffs. Steve Vai is great, but i prefer Yngwie because its darker and dramatic in melancoly but he's more freaking heavy and balls out too.

[@johnmikk1495]

@@user-lq9mw1sb8d I think Yngwie is that kinda rebellious teenager who breaks everything and he had that rad personality, he's always in trouble and he's so intelligent and very classy, maybe i'm wrong but i feel that rock n roll statement that true young rockers had in that time. GREAT player in my conception.

[@clay-tw5gc]

Technical proficiency can be powerful if and only if there is true humanity in every single note. Every single note must have human emotions creating it or it is not a note.

[@samfalvey8434]

Quentin Guitarantino, You're the king!

[@Wargasm54]

Underrated comment 👍🏻🫡

[@cgtarga1]

'Groove always wins against the grid.' Exactly. SRV, George Thorogood, Angus Young, and Alvin Lee come to my mind, (as does Page of course). Yes SRV is light years ahead of the other 3 in raw ability, but I ENJOY their music equally.

[@johnstephenalbert]

If you think rock and roll is about perfection, you're missing the point.

[@Fasterkittycat]

Words of The Great Tom Petty Rock and roll is not ment to be perfect if it is its not Rock and Roll

[@helij9365]

Vai, Satriani, Malsteen, all may be better "technically" but Jimi and Jimmy are far more interesting and emotive musically.

[@martinclayton7260]

Most modern music doesn't have the musicality of a lot of the old songs.

[@larrycoffey4534]

Did Jimmy break his hand?

[@paulharris1916]

Perfection is the enemy of rock n roll,feeling is everything

[@sseltrek1a2b]

yeah- there's "competency" on the instrument, and then there's "something else"...

[@MrBossei]

You’re absolutely right! 🥂🤗

[@KTLBT]

Over producing sucks the sould out of the music. The slop is where the magic is

[@jasonstrakes7115]

There is an interview with Jimmy Page in the June 1969 issue of Guitar Player magazine that describes his solo on "You Shook Me" as having "a kind of sloppy but amazingly inventive style", where he admits to minor mistakes on the recording. So he did respond to other guitarists who perceived him as having a lack of precise technique at that time.

[@realdocloco]

The truth is most modern guitar players perfectly know each and every performance is filmed by thousands of phone-tottin' "fans" who will post every bum note on the net. So they don't take risk anymore - they play the record, note for note. And that's what many "fans" actually want today - no more improvisation, no more freedom, they want to hear the record during the show. That's why many don't really care when some cheaters use a backtrack to cover (or replace) their playing/singing. Back in LZ days, musicians were free to improvise - and yes it means sometimes it was sloppy, sometimes genius: that's the beauty of live music.

[@GuitarLessonsVancouver]

That's a good point. There's a lot more at stake now that everyone is filming every live show on their phones. Also why so many bands mime to backing tracks today too.

[@patepulkkinenvtec2403]

And then there's people who can improvise AND sound very precise at the same time. I can't do that, but there are many people in the world who can do it nowadays and many more who could do it already well before Page had played a note.

[@GraemeSPa]

Zeppelin were in the days before digital recording where any individual note of every individual stem can be tweaked. Editing was done with a razor blade and splicing tape. Zeppelin might not have been perfect, but they created a new path leading away from the pop music of those days and inspired thousands of new musicians. I could never get on with having the guitar hanging around my knees though - I thought it looked cool, but I could never play properly like that.

[@henryfuller69]

A lot of people also forget the fact that he did do drugs like heroin that did effect his playing, especially in 1975 to 1980

[@lucasnn2008]

Yeah, proof of this is that in some 1975 shows, specially on January and February, when he wasn't wasted, he could play just like his 1973 self.

[@neekoneekoni]

he didn't do drugs in 1975, he only did alcohol, he did drugs in 76

[@KennethFinuf]

I still get chills when I hear the live solo of since I've been loving you !! 😁

[@freq9939]

All about composition, style, tone, expression. Jimmy was a session player before Led zeppelin. So he was very methodical. I read that he wanted Led Zeppelin to be the opposite and be groovy with that methodical madness. RnR is nasty in the best of ways. It’s human imperfection. Trying it’s best to be as good as it can be but falls short. It’s beating the odds. Sticking it not just to the man but everyone. I’ll take a rock n roll composer with some slop than a shredder any day

[@ez68eldo]

No Quarter solo in The Song Remains The Same movie is the greatest live guitar perfomance ever. I'll die on this hill.

[@swillywilly3183]

Nothing's really perfect, perfection is a goal even today's a hard challenge for live performance. It's emotion the audience the venue the distractions that make live better. Drugs and alcohol are good old Rock & Roll. Today is technically better but dry and with lack of innovation. Auto tune, mixing scales and dropping chords into a DAW boring and same same. No talent in that.

[@strongbelieveroftheholybible]

Jimmy Page is one of the fallen angels/ demons that got kick out from heaven for their rebellion. A lot of them are in this generation ( celebrities, politicians, scientists) Lord Jesus Christ is coming soon🙏🏼❤️🕊Repent, believe in the Gospel, Be Born Again

[@leechild4655]

Jimmy would tell you, he played with feel. He wasnt interested in `by the book` playing. Forget the meteronome also. This is what makes his style so epic. Call it sloppy, I would call it creative, unique. It worked out pretty well for him didn`t it. Damn right it did.

[@jeshely]

Most Syncopated based rhythm tracks are like that, is part of the energy and human emotion it brings into it. It might feel sloppy if you just go by the metronome like a robot but once you get into it, you start to get it because each progressive bar builds into the previous one. In that process there will be some perceived sloppiness of varying degree depending the song moves and how strict and by the metronome you go by. It is exactly why most pro musicians talk about staying in the pocket and not staying with the metronome.

[@intrasource]

Today has no risky strength.

[@skxlter5747]

I honestly don't care much if he messed up at times and was sloppy as such, that's what makes him more relatable and makes us see him as an even better guitar. He misses notes but always fires back on the next notes.

[@johnfrei9057]

That sloppy quality of Jimmy’s playing is one of the things that makes it so interesting.

[@user-uv1rr5xk8i]

Not me I remember heating a solo I the radio and couldn't believe how bad it was and how many ears it got past to actually keep it as a recording

[@scottwebster695]

Difference between Jimmy's playing and EVH's playing: EVH is technically impressive. Jimmy Page fires me up and gets the heart beating faster. Even after hearing his solos many times they still get me going. Jimmy is Rock n Roll !! EVH has also spoken dismissively about Jimi Hendrix saying "He's just guitar tricks." A few years ago Rev Horton Heat had a funny EVH story that used to be on KZbin. It might still be around.

[@dezertfox3130]

It’s like calling Picasso sloppy.

[@brazilgriller6073]

Look forward to Saturday mornings like a kid waiting on Saturday morning cartoons....back in the day. Love your methods!!!!!

[@coloaten6682]

Spot on, Blue. It's music. It's emotion. It's drama. There are no wrong notes - every musician ever!

[@winstonsyme5899]

As Beethoven stated: “"To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable."

[@EbonyPope]

I just wrote this videos OP a message in hopes he could answer it. I'll just repost it here in hopes that maybe you or someone else might want to weigh in since I have never seen this discussed about Page anywhere on the internet. Here it is: Please man I urge you please answer me this: I always wanted to ask a guitar teacher that question: Why on earth does nobody talk about how clean his ACOUSTIC playing is compared to his electric??? How in the world did I not even to this day read a single article, interview or else ask Jimmy Page that question??? Sorry for the many questionsmarks but it's truly baffling to me how nobody (including you) never seem to notice the discrepancy between his electric guitar playing and his acoustic work. We all know that most purely electric guitar players struggle when they have to play real solos with good attack on acoustics and that it is generally more difficult. Watch the acoustic sessions of Eddie Van Halen here or Dave Mustaine trying to get a good attack and you'll be horrified how little aggressive attack and good phrasing they are able to deliver in comparison to acoustic players. Sure with practice I'm absolutely confident they could learn it but you definitely perceive that they are struggling. But why is Page the anomaly? Why does his acoustic playing sound more effortless than his electric playing. That is not the case with any electric guitarist I have ever heard. Even at his best he was way more sloppy on electric than on acoustic. Listen to Black Mountain Side. I'm sure there are some flubbed notes too but nothing in comparison to the Heartbreaker solo. He plays at blistering speed with very clean pull offs etc. Is his super low position of his electric guitar to blame? Is it because he started on acoustic actually classical guitar? Please I beg you. If you have a good ear please listen to the recordings and tell me if I'm just hearing things.

[@kendickinson8307]

A while back, while listening to Page play, it suddenly came to me: Jimmy Page went to art school at one point. I don't know what that really means in terms of that time period, but I started wondering which of the great artists does he most compare to? Let's face it, not all of the great artists were technically perfect - in fact, many of them painted using techniques that, when you look closely, it seems sloppy, but stand back and it's beautiful beyond measure. I don't know if Page is more Vincent Van Gogh or Jackson Pollock, but he is an artist. When you start thinking of it that way, and you stand back and hear the music - the sonic landscape - instead of just the notes, then you start to see the true genius within. I've loved Led Zeppelin for decades, and I'm still discovering new things every time I listed to them.

[@jeffreyrings9677]

A lot of old timers say page was sloppy live, so what he was an army , he was so great in he studio