The Dirty Little Secret Of Waterfowl Ammo

[@JefferyWoodcock]

I learned many years ago that shotshell ammo companies put whatever falls from the shot tower in the shell. All shells, not just water fowl. Simply because the consumer can't see it. Logically when you buy shot, it's all polished and pretty.

[@tylerpatterson4059]

Absolutly awesome video. I've cut hevi shot ammunition open, and found pellets stuck together forming an "8" shape.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

That is really common from what I've seen. A big downside I forgot to mention is that these mis-sized and mis-shapen pellets take up more space leaving fewer pellets in the load.

[@nicktoofar3514]

Dude that new Blind Side 2 is lethal... One of the best shells I've seen in few years

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

It performs surprisingly well actually. I did a video on it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpythIV4aJ5kf7s

[@Blue_Collar_Hunter]

Have you shot Boss yet? If not it’s worth every penny.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@Blue_Collar_Hunter Oh yea, many of my test videos are with BOSS. Great stuff!

[@ZEEKUPP]

Tried it, Blind Side, that is. didn't care for it. The only advantage I noticed was that it was more responsive to choke sizes than regular steel pellets.

[@JefferyWoodcock]

The way ammo companies look at it is 1 or 2 percent being slightly irregular is acceptable based on the total amount of shot in the shell. If ammo companies took the time and labor and machine cost to make each one perfect, they would have to pass the extra cost on to the consumers.

[@JefferyWoodcock]

Man you really hit it on the head this time. I cut open a Remington 410 -3" #4 shot. I was gray and dusty. The nastiest looking trash I ever saw. I bought a bag of number 4 and it was perfect, round and polished and really nice. I guess it's all a matter of profit margins. Getting rid of otherwise unsellabe kull.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Yea, sometimes it's very surprising what you find in the shell.

[@davidbilbrough3726]

We have missed you. Glad you are back for more discussions . The first tungsten I bought was supposed to be 5s but turned out to be 3s and were like two halves stuck together off center and the patterns were horrible. I now think as more people are patterning there guns they have to be better- but as usual as the shot is expensive to make they use all the shot they have made as there is no come back once they are fired. So I am now loading my own shells with your American powder. Great results with 17 geese on tues , for two of us, with steel BBs.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks so much! I definitely hear you with pellets that are not the proper size!

[@Gokiburi777]

I have some of the original Hevi-Steel tungsten shot #6 and it is clumpy non-spherical stuff and it’s the BEST patterning shell I have. Amazing patterns at 30 and 40 yards. Can’t explain it, but it does. Got the pattern paper to prove it.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

I believe it, some of the goofy shaped stuff I showed in the video is the same thing and it patterns very nicely.

[@danielnalepinski3884]

Mis-shaped steel pellets perform quit well inside regular distances. They will tumble and create a slightly increased wound channel. You will see it in your gel test. Black cloud, flight stoppers. And blind side advertises on mis-shaped pellets.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

That makes sense, but I haven't really seen any evidence of it in the gel. Maybe it needs to hit something harder like bone.

[@danielnalepinski3884]

Possibly. Or when it hits feathers/down. Seems to be hard to punch through. Especially on geese. I've used the hv blind side in #6 shot on wood ducks. They seemed to hit the ducks just as hard if not more than #4 regular steel shot. The on game performance is noticeable.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@danielnalepinski3884 Gel definately doesn't have feathers!

[@jerrodladner3019]

20 some years ago remington sold a turkey load that was called remington heavi shot. They were expensive and if you cut them open they were square football shape and not all the same size . But I wish I would have bought a lifetime supply cause it was the best turkey loads I've ever used.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

If it works it works! That is the bottom line!

[@treyrobinson15]

I used to shoot the same stuff! That was a great shooting shell! I wish I had a case of it to compare to tss I use now. I killed several birds out to 60 yards with the old hevi shot!

[@LukeClark-d4m]

I just cut open an imperial steel shot shell, the shot is consistent and beautiful I wish I knew how to add a photo

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

The higher the grade the more perfect the steel. But many are not high grade... it's cheaper to do cheaper grade.

[@nasserkuzbari2205]

Great video as usual.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!

[@OttoTheWeim]

This is a really interesting video. I have never encountered and steel or non steel pellets that were misshapen. I didn try the blindside ammo and I did not like it at all. It just didn’t kill ducks well like the other shells. Another thing I have been experiencing on a regular basis with Boss ammo is pellet fragmentation. I can’t tell you how many pellet fragments I have pulled out of duck breasts and skin. I also had a lot of fragmentation in pheasant using the Boss. I spoke with Boss to make sure it was ok to shoot out of my Full choke (fixed choke OU) barrel in my Beretta BL-4 and they said no problem. Every pheasant had fragmented Boss (3/5 loads in their 2.75”) pellets. Most ducks do too using a Benelli Vinci with a Indian Creek tube. Still hits like a freight train but seems to be fragmenting in the bird not in the air. I haven’t tried the new WarChief but I don’t think they made any changes to the shot, just the buffer and loading of the shells. As soon as it becomes available again I’ll order some War Chief to try. First shells this season to test out are going to be the Hevi Hammer Chesapeake stacked 3/5 bismuth/steel shells. I’ll keep my eyes open to see how the pellets look.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks for input. Have those results with the BOSS been from one lot of ammo or multiple lots over time? I wonder if maybe one lot of pellets had the issue more than others. I have not noticed it much myself. Though I shoot mostly #4s, which makes me wonder if maybe it was a lot of 3/5s.

[@calebwozniak4390]

Been loving your videos, especially the Boss comparison videos. Can you make a video on the effective range of Boss shots in different sizes? I would like to find the best size shot for shooting ducks at long ranges of 50-60 yards. Thank you, keep up the great work.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks so much Caleb! I am planning to do a bunch of long-range testing this summer for next season!

[@Blue_Collar_Hunter]

Would it be possible for you to test boss 3” #4’s (1 3/8oz) with a Kicks High Flyer Full choke tube? That’s my typical combo with. Beretta A400 Extreme Plus 12 Gauge. I’m curious to see how it patterns with your gun.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@Blue_Collar_Hunter If I can find a way to get one of those chokes in hand, then sure! They are one of several I'd like to test.

[@starcrafttom]

Why would you need or want to take shoots that long?

[@ICECOLDOUTDOORS]

At least with my findings, and this was over a span of like 10 years Federal Speed Shok, Apex S3, and Kent have been the most spherical. With Hevi Metal and Winchester Super X/Xpert looking just like those pictures you showed. Now what really upset me about 10 years ago was when Federal marketed their Black Cloud as having a razor sharp edge around the pellets. Back then $25 was a lot for a box of ammo, and when I found out is was all lies I started cutting shells open. Thing about steel shotshells is although they haven't been around as long as lead has been, companies have put a lot of research into wad design to get the most out of steel shot due to its shortcomings to the point most steel loads will pattern tighter than lead now.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

No doubt, there is some really good patterning steel these days. I've seen 80%+ patterns at 40 yards. My results across brands have been very similar to yours.

[@dennisvandergriff7757]

Top notch and very, very interesting. Thank you so much for this informative information.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks so much!

[@Poohflinger123]

I can’t afford to cut my shells open to inspect the shot. Lol but I appreciate you doing it. I think cutting open the raw shot shell vs inspecting the ballistic gel shot is the better sample. I’m certain there are deformity after it’s traveled down the barrel and choke. Thanks for the video 👍

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Yes you are right. I have more videos coming where I inspect the shoot before shooting. Thanks!

[@jeffbarris8172]

Wow I wouldn't think any of that stuff would pattern will, interesting George! God bless you and go get them in the marsh!

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks so much Jeff! It doesn't all pattern good, but much of it does just fine. I think it has more to do with the shot cup and shell make up than it does the actual shape and size of the shot anymore. But for every large, mutated pellet you have several fewer pellets of the appropriate size.

[@jeffbarris8172]

@@TheNewHuntersGuide is the plated stuff any better?

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@jeffbarris8172 What I have seen puts it at average.

[@bryantitus6634]

The crazy thing about these oblong and odd shaped pellets is how well they actually still work. Many of which patterning better than the uniformly plated round lead shot. Not saying all of them do, but overall still definitely an improvement over steel at least.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Agreed.

[@BrokenBarBox]

Excellent video as usual! God bless you, and go get ‘em in the high plains!

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thank you so much!

[@eliedube]

Winchester is the most irregular pellet, IMO. I don't know if this has to do with better patterns. Uniform pellets, the more likely they are instable before exiting the barrel. The less uniform pellet will move less in the barrel during the shoot. That's why some people use buffer material. More uniform pellet will do better after exiting the barrel... penetratrion, less speed loss, fewer flyers, etc. I guess there is a balance to achieve. Look at how they do railways... they never use uniform gravel... otherwise, the rail would sink to the bottom. Irregular gravel is very stable to heavy wagons.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Good observations. The Winchester was among the better pellets I tested actually. Though any brand could have a good or a bad lot, so it takes observation and testing over time to figure out whose really ahead or behind.

[@Windwalker_Outdoors]

Winchester X-pert and Browning Wicked Wing shells are the worst with odd shaped shot......almost looks like welding slag.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Oh yea, there is some pretty ugly stuff I didn't even have on hand to include!

[@johnf6967]

So what you’re saying is, it’s my ammo that’s not working and not my shooting 😂

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Haha, good shooting is definitely more important than ammo selection! That was my last video lol.

[@thomasburns4034]

I knew it was not my shooting lol!

[@bent5434]

Great content as always

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thank you so much!

[@R50_J0]

Sounds like if a hunter wants an ultra premium shot load, then the shot needs to be hand screened for roundness and weight during reloading.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

That's the truth.

[@Blue_Collar_Hunter]

What is that jacket and camo pattern you have on?

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

So that is a zip in liner jacket that pairs to a Cabela's Instinct waterfowl hunting parka that I got a couple years ago from a thrift store for $20. I don't have a lot of details on it, but it's warm and very nice for what I paid!

[@joearledge1]

Lol a lot of those look like my homemade shot before I polish and sort them

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

That is the truth! I'm pretty sure homemade shot has fewer of the crazy abnormalities.

[@joearledge1]

@@TheNewHuntersGuide lol it definitely has goobers, but I definitely sort them out and sort the shot by size before loading

[@ShopnoPoint]

super nice

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Thanks

[@bent_life9865]

So the thought that duplex loads are inferior is probably false. Essentially all loads are duplexes or multiplexes

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Haha, there is some truth to that. I think the thought that duplex loads are somehow better is equally debunked.

[@wcb5890]

There is an allowable pellet size variance set buy SAAMI. For waterfowl loads/game loads tolerance is +/- .010" meaning essential a shell marked #2 could be #1s or #3s inside. Steel shot sizes go up by .010 increments. So a technical #4.5 shot as you described would be well within allowable variance. Things like shot size and shot Weights should be better explained. Guys complain that the total weight of shot is not exactly 1 1/2 oz as an example or there are not exactly 200 pellets in their shell not understanding that per pellet weight can vary along with an allowable variance on the total shot weight advertised on the shell. There really aren't dirty secrets just unexplained variances.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

This great information. Thank you. Did you see the pictures of the so-called pellets? That is well beyond the allotment of standard deviations of shot size.

[@wcb5890]

@@TheNewHuntersGuide agree on the shot that you showed.

[@coreygagnon2741]

Do apex tss/steal or all apex ammunition

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Apex TSS is on the menu for a future video!

[@birdhunter412011]

Envirometal been doing this for years….confronted a Gander Mountain manager about it and he flew off the handle…

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Yea, it's not an ideal scenario.

[@genekind8752]

HeviShot Tungsten looks like welding slag.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Yea, it is not great looking, that's for sure!

[@nic-h4350]

If it didn’t pattern well they would prefix it. The pattern is what kills not the shape

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

That is exactly right. No urgent need to invest in better pellets if they do the job. Not enough people are cutting open shells to check anyway.

[@tripplebeards3427]

Old news. I knew that back when dead coyote came out decades ago and took a few apart. Globs of junk! The old Rem HD BB loads I use for coyote hunting are round. You can buy nice even round tungsten and similar shot for reloading. That way at least you know what you have. I still wouldn’t spend that kind of money on shot anymore.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

So what do you shoot these days?

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@TheNewHuntersGuide bought a case of federal classic 1 7/8oz lead BBs when they were discontinued...I use them for predator calling. Gave up on the heavy shot decades ago accept for what I have left laying around. The HD I still have in BB, BBB, and T. Shot a coyote at 109 yards a few years back with HD BB. Broke 2 of its legs with the shot. That stuff is wicked. To bad it's not produced anymore or I'd buy some to reload. I have a case of Herters #1 shot I use in my 12 gauges for ducks along with the factory full choke tube. It's almost too tight at 60 yards. Gave up waterfowl hunting a few years back. I put all my extra time in for archery season. I use a kicks .670 for the lead BB and kicks .680 for #4 buck. Both will put an average of 5 to 6 pellets in a 5" circle at 60 yards most of the time. Wicked combos. I I bought about a dozen and half used choke tubes in the bargain bin years ago. I have fun playing with them. Best groups vary with tubes. Kicks are one of favorite. My Browning gold 10 has a code vlack pattern master. Bought into the hype back around 90' when they came out and traded my.orignal one for it to pattern master last year. If not I would have bought a kicks for the 10.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@tripplebeards3427 Thank you!

[@rickvann3489]

Lmao... the growth was supposed to be on every pellet designed that way or 50/50 mix

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Sounds like they are trying to spin it, they likely can't make them another way without spending more.

[@rickvann3489]

@The New Hunters Guide I read years ago this was by design but I might argue it is just a ploy for crappy manufacturing. I like your channel keep up the good work.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@rickvann3489 Thanks!

[@birdhunter412011]

So it’s pretty much slag😅

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

It is, but it still somehow works fairly well.

[@tughill4895]

only shot thats like that is hevi shot -maybe different brand but its same kinda shot ,and its not a waterfowl shot its just dosnt have lead same stuff used for turkey 20 years ago everyone new this shit now no one knows crap and everything is news -a true shotguner will never use ammo with out ever opening one hevi shot compmay even used to show them looking like that in adds and on boxes shot like that even performs better because its stacks up better in the shell and in the shot string thats why its left like that and people dont care. its like inspecting and complaining about a food that tastes good

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

I think the biggest downside is you get fewer total pellets in the shell and thus fewer in the air. My testing has shown that they do not perform any worse, you just have fewer of them.