The Dirtywave M8 isn't for me...

In this Signal Colors video, I'm taking a look at the pros and cons of the Dirtywave M8 - and why I don't think it's for me. It's a great piece of gear and I actually love a lot of stuff about it, but hang out for a bit and hear what I think the pros and cons are of this retro-futuristic music-making device.
Further Reading: ‪@RedMeansRecording‬ Demos
1) • Dirtywave M8 Tracker -...
2) • Album Release and Trac...
3) • Dirtywave M8 Tracker B...
Dirtywave: www.dirtywave.com
‪@Dirtywave‬
Duskmos: www.duskmos.com
Duskmos Instagram: / duskmos
Duskmos Bandcamp: www.duskmos.bandcamp.com

[@visobs]

Portability outweighs every con for me. I have had it for 3-4 months and still don't know how to use most of the features, but being able to throw it into my backpack and mess around with the amen break and FM synth during a 5-hour flight is amazing. There is no other device that is as portable and powerful, and any other cons can be overcome.

[@Duskmos]

That's such a valid point. This thing is definitely the most capable piece of gear I've ever seen in this footprint. I just honestly don't think I can get over the hump enough to enjoy using it. I'm sure I'll probably try again someday haha. Thanks for watching and for your comment!

[@joshualane1716]

No other device as portable and powerful…other than a cell phone? There’s so much music software available and extremely usable on mobile platforms. Between sampling, synth, sequencing, and heck, I’ve seen people run midi out of their phones, you can do everything without needing to drop hundreds of extra dollars on a single-use device. Not saying it the M8 isn’t great for what it is. I’d love to pick one up eventually, but it’s hard to justify when it’s the price of a new phone or full Ableton 11 Suite.

[@Duskmos]

Very good point! I do think sometimes people like dedicated music hardware to get them *away* from computing devices (and therefore distractions) but yeah my gah a smartphone can do all that as well as all the smartphone stuff haha. I guess you could always have just a music software dedicated second phone or tablet if you wanted to though. As you mention, same if you went with a laptop with Ableton. I think most of us can agree that computers can do all the things very very well, we just prefer using dedicated devices. Can’t argue with you though! Thanks for your comment!

[@visobs]

​@@joshualane1716 Flawless logic: why buy an Octatrack when you can simply use Ableton? Why invest in a Novation or Moog when Ableton's Analog is available? Why purchase an MPC when you can use the drum kit in Ableton? And why even bother with an M8 when you can use your phone - the device you probably spent all day scrolling, chatting, and procrastinating on? In a world where smartphones and computers equipped with Ableton exist, it's hard to understand why anyone would still buy hardware. Perhaps all hardware companies went out of business after the release of Ableton. Right?

[@joshualane1716]

@@visobs jeepers, relax. I mentioned Ableton at the very last sentence, and you just took that and ran with it for some reason. My primary argument was that there are other portable devices that are more powerful, and that we carry them in our pocket every day. I’m sorry you maybe can’t get away from your phone, but there’s very useable apps that cost little to nothing - including trackers.

[@robokid13]

Trackers aren't for everyone for sure. To your points about ideation and speed, I do think those are actually some of the stronger points for the M8. For ideation it is very easy to "clone" pattern chains so you can non-destructively try variations on an idea, then link those ideas together by playing little islands. Maybe not generative, but very very powerful. As for speed, I do think it comes down to building muscle memory. If you spend enough time with the M8, those button combos become second nature, much like you don't have to think about using a video game controller after a certain point.

[@Duskmos]

Fair points! I guess I meant it more in a "coming up with something from scratch" a la "noodling" sort of angle - but yeah I could definitely see coming up with something and then working out variations in a speedy way would be something pretty valuable once you get the hang of it! Agreed on the muscle memory stuff, I've seen that with other gear as well, I just personally would like a few more dedicated buttons and keys - but then again that would start to diminish the portability aspect a bit, so I don't know haha. I definitely admit here (and in the vid) that I know some of that is on me, that I could learn those things, but I just think I don't have the time and don't really want to - which is of course all my fault haha. I think if I wasn't so set in the Elektron ways, and maybe if I only had the M8, I think it would be a great thing to learn and get speedy at - though I'm still trying to get better at everything else I already have too so...lol.

[@boorchboorch]

it's also a bit like music sheet 2.0. at some point you can hear a melody inside your head (or whistle it) and literally type it in without previewing even once. it's all about getting used to it. and this is coming from someone who was buried into Elektron ecosystem before jumping ship and almost exclusively using M8. it's like all my Elektron gear combined into one.

[@myceliumtechno]

Honest review. Highly appreciated. I've used Elektron boxes for years and love them. I tried Polyend Tracker, and I couldn't get used to the track-style workflow. I concluded, I am not a tracker-style producer. It all felt too much like programming. There was no fun tweaking knobs involved as with Elektron. Then I tried the M8. Man, holy smoke. I fell in love big time. The reason? It's interface just is soo super efficient. Once the muscle memory kicks in, there is no interface. You fly over those keys like crazy. Nothing is more than 2 or 3 clicks away. And it's exactly this that makes it a creative device for me. Lots of happy accident because of this. And when I really want to find those happy accidents, I apply Random to a sliced beat, or to a sequence of notes. And you know what? If you hear something you like yo can freeze the randomness by giving it a seed value. It bring order to randomness. Really really powerful. The other reason for me happy accidents happen is I take the device out on moments I would never take out the Elektron gear. In the subway, in the office, anywhere. It's those moments when you are in the mood to just create something. I still have all my Elektrons and love them. But the M8 created a toltally new dimension to making music for me. Totally unexpected.

[@Duskmos]

That’s awesome! Yeah I never explored the random, which does sound like it would invite some happy accidents. I agree about the portability - I called that out as a pro for sure because the HW feels great and is a perfect size for sure. I actually got it to travel with but it felt like such a curveball from what I’m used to and like, that it made the “casual fun pick up and go” of it all feel more like I was making sacrifices to have something small with me haha. I know that would change though if I got into it more. I’m glad it has opened opportunities for you to enjoy music making on the go. I want to try an OP-1 for that purpose as well, and I know it has a workflow tweak too with the way it prints audio, but for whatever reason that seems more my speed anyway haha - we’ll see though 😆.

[@TristanBaldi]

Hey! Just curious about what you mean by freezing the randomness by giving it a seed value? I have the M8 and know it pretty well but I'm always keen on discovering new things. And I'm familiar with the concept of seed thanks to AI generated images tries here and there. Thanks!

[@myceliumtechno]

@@TristanBaldi I use it a lot to capture those randomly generated happy accidents. The SED (seed) parameter does just that. Put a SED01 command in your phrase. Apply RND to e.g. SLI of CUT or PIT and you'll notice that the randomness is the same for that phrase every cycle. Turn the SED01 to SED02 and you get the next random iteration of your phrase. Really really powerful. I use it a lot for chopped up 1 bar loops. Say a baseline, or weird synth riff. Then I do RND0F (16 slices) and SLI00. So this randomises what slice is played every cycle. But then I add a SED value and "freeze" the randomness and look for a happy accident by going from SED01 to SED02, SED03, etc.

[@TristanBaldi]

@@myceliumtechno Excellent I jad never gone into SED territory. Thanks a lot!

[@myceliumtechno]

@@TristanBaldi You're welcome and keep up your great work!

[@luga1398]

Thank you so much. The KZbin synth space needs more of this modest, user-centric criticism. This balances out the hype and genuine enthousiasm some other creators might display, without being polarizing at all. Just the approach this video takes is a great service to the community in my opinion. Subscribed, and still going to buy it though ww

[@Duskmos]

Haha thanks so much for the kind words and I'm glad you're getting one! It's super cool and crazy portable. If you happen to stumble upon my channel or see this video again, stop by and let me know what you think about it after you get yours. Comments like yours keep me going so much appreciated! =)

[@luga1398]

@@rmriwatchbeing lazy can also be a virtue, and as much as I love my OT, gear needing to « git gud » is not an objective criteria for quality. Being lazy also helps to go straight to the core of your interests and be concise - pro tip, this also applies for KZbin comments. Really glad you like the M8 though, and thanks for the features list

[@wullybud]

My favorite “happy accident” workflow with the M8 is to sample a recording of my (off-grid) synth jams, chop it into equal increments, and use the slice command to place random snippets into a phrase. I rarely known what I’m gonna get out of it, but then I can respond to the randomness by using a command to shift the start point of a slice and/or pitch it in a way that allows it to work with other slices in my phrase…The M8’s render function is also great with this workflow. Just render out a harmonically complex set of phrases and turn them into a single sample to chop. So many melodic and experimental discoveries to be had.

[@Duskmos]

Ooh that’s a good tip! I do something similar on the Octatrack, playing the chops in slice keyboard mode and recording something rhythmic from those slices. No random exactly in those triggers but it’s so fun reworking something you record. Awesome you could do that on the M8.

[@wullybud]

Yeah, I use the Octatrack like this as well, but the M8 has been my go-to sampler for the last few years. It’s not quite as deep as the Octatrack in terms of sound design, but it gets close. For me the main appeal of the M8 is its flexibility with composition. Tracks run independently of each other but can also sync back up at any determined point. I don’t know any other hardware sampler that can do this… I’m sorry that you didn’t gel with your M8. Maybe you can have a another go at it sometime in the future. I was never a tracker guy before and the M8 was initially really frustrating for me, but everything eventually clicked, and when it did it became the most intuitive electronic instrument I’ve ever used. I’ve gone as long as two months without using it, and when I picked it up to play it again, I immediately knew how it all worked (just from muscle memory and how that fuses with the visual layout) I can’t say the same thing about my Octatrack.

[@Duskmos]

@@wullybud That's awesome! Yeah the independent track timings could totally lead to some interesting outcomes I'm sure, and you're right about the Octatrack. I'll definitely circle back to the M8 sometime if my life allows it to slot in haha. I think I just find myself having limited time these days and a shorter window where I'm willing to give a new piece of gear a shot. I still have a lot to learn with the things I already have and so I feel like if I'm not really into something within the first few hours/attempts, I just shouldn't force it. Of course as I mention in the video and will def say again, I know that's on me haha, and I wanted to put this other perspective out there, not because I want to hate on gear (cause I think anything that makes musical noise has value and I actually think the M8 is gr8), but because I hadn't seen much that discussed this from this perspective as a non-tracker user haha. Thanks for your messages and I appreciate your perspective!

[@hair-on-fire]

Great to hear a new perspective and you make valid points. I still really want to check one out!

[@Duskmos]

Hey thanks for saying so! I say do it! It’s totally worth trying out. Hope you like it. If you think of it, come back and let me know what you think once you do. ✌️

[@vinylarchaeologist]

Appreciate your perspective. It‘s important to hear these kinds of opinions.

[@Duskmos]

Thanks for saying so! Yeah there's room for balance on this kind of stuff - and I find value in anything that makes sound and entertains you, but it's just not for me. I however do think I'd definitely recommend it to anyone interested in trying it out!

[@PlanetNinetyTwo]

I have the Polyend Tracker and dream of getting the M8 for its portability. I love the workflow on my Tracker and the M8 seems similar in this regard.

[@Duskmos]

Then the M8 will be amazing for you! It’s an incredibly powerful device and so wildly portable - you’d love it I’m sure 🙌

Nice and honoust review! Your first con is really the secret pro for me. I'm a software developer and for me it's very nice to be able to "program" the notes. I still don't know all the shortcuts and key presses, but when you practice enough, your muscle memory kicks in.

[@Duskmos]

I could totally see that being a great pro for you! Shows so much how personal music tech and approaches to gear are, and yeah muscle memory is key for this I'm sure! Thanks for watching the vid and for commenting! =)

[@JH-pe3ro]

Something tells me(a long-time tracker user, but one that hasn't really gotten into LSDJ or M8) that you'd feel like it were more fluid if you made a grid paper notebook and a color multipen into your "M8 companion", using the notebook as a cheat sheet and a way to jot down ideation on theoretical groundwork(patterns, harmonies, etc.) before you input note data. I've become less digital-centric lately, doing a lot of traditional drawing, and I've noticed that habitually using the paper as a "second screen" has a way of deemphasizing the digital part of every workflow by changing the requirement from "the software is going to present exactly the affordances I need to iterate on my ideas" to "the software is primarily data entry and edits". The first one is just a much harder task, and really, I don't think any digital content creation tools - software or hardware - can claim to be ideal for every case of ideation. What I've noticed in the past is that what I end up doing by poking around in a tool is whatever my muscle memory has already trained me to do. The thing I can see that the M8 does do really well, not even having touched one, is that it really is a pocketable tool for that second part of doing the data entry and hearing the result. Everything is there, sometimes a bit buried in menus or shortcuts, and the constraints it has are lower than your typical groovebox.

[@Duskmos]

Some totally fair points there! I think the paper/planning approach would be a good one for people inclined to work that way, I'd just be afraid that would feel like handwriting a letter and then just typing it out afterwards - I'd just prefer to work on what the final form would be, ultimately, but that is a good tip! I'm definitely a fan of working in a hybrid way between analog and digital. Like in my own music-making I incorporate tape and acoustic instruments and room-recorded samples. Something about crossing both of those worlds feels more like "real" art to me (but the best part about art is there is no right or wrong way) haha, anyway, thanks for the comment! =)

[@trevor_mounts_music]

That sounds like a horrific workflow 🤷🏻‍♂

[@cakesteak]

@@trevor_mounts_music I hear its great for deaf people

[@naught101]

10:02 I'd say 5-10 hours and you'd be proficient with the combos and navigation. It took me about 3-4 hours to nail it down, but I'd used an LSDJ a little bit before, and the gist is the same. Once you get that, it's fast, and the ideation comes from messing around with variations on themes (e.g. jamming on FX or sample parameters). Using an external MIDI keyboard can also be fun

[@Duskmos]

All good tips! Thanks for that =) I could see automating fx in steps like that would be fun, and I didn't try external midi, but that would definitely help with the whole "noodling around" bit I guess haha. It's such a cool device and can do so much, but yeah, I think the workflow just isn't for me. I'm sure I'll come back to it someday haha. Thanks for the comment!

[@blastman2154]

M8 tracker is a really powerful device. The workflow might seems challenging. But after a short while it really works/clicks. Model 02 is already looking good.

[@Duskmos]

Yeah! Pretty cool about the mkii. May have to revisit it at some time 🙌

[@paolofanin]

I had one for a year or so... initially I loved it because I come from a tracker experience. It is indeed very powerful, also compared to the Polyend Tracker. BUT then I got an OP-1 Field and after some months I have realized that I have been use this one instead of the M8 most of the times and I sold it. It is merely a question of workflow... for me. I know that the OP-1 costs much more and the OP-1 Field even more, but I love the fact that I can actually play notes on a small poly and touch sensitive keyboard, being mainly a pianist. M8 is surely a fantastic instrument and I did some full songs with it, but finally I preferred to chose which portable all-in-one to take with me everyday in my bag, and the OP-1 field won. :)

[@Duskmos]

That sounds like a very similar path to the one I'm taking. I'm looking forward to trying out the field as my next go-to portable device. I think that sort of workflow is a little more what I'll personally prefer as well! Thanks for watching and for the comment! =)

[@joeycooper7594]

I appreciate your feedback. I just pre-ordered one, and up to this point haven't heard any negatives. This perceptive was fresh, sub! I've used some trackers, but am still pretty new. I think I'll be able too noodle with it. Fingers crossed!

[@Duskmos]

Heyyoo thanks for checking out the vid - you heard me out! 😆 I hope you enjoy it! There’s a lot of potential there for sure. If you remember to, def let me know what you think after you get it!

[@thesnipecatcher116]

I have no tracker background and was scared to even try the M8. I’ll never sell mine! It sounds amazing and I travel a lot for work so it’s a no brainer. At home I use an octatrack, syntakt and modular but the M8 is my travel piece and I couldn’t be happier that I got one

[@Duskmos]

That's great! Sounds like it slots in nicely. Thanks for watching and for the comment! 🙌

[@CrescentRollCarl]

When I first got the M8, I went into it thinking I would be using it to create full tracks. I do have a tracker background, but the type of tracker I've used (Renoise) is a lot different than the LSDJ style tracker the M8 is. I found the M8 sequencer didn't work for me to create full songs. I also loathe the Elektron devices. I have a Digitone still, and want to like it, but just can't get there. I did however find a way to incorporate the M8 into my workflow. Like you, I find that it sounds amazing. I think the FM synth in particular is as good as the Digitone, and I've been a lot more successful with sound design on the M8 than on the Digitone. I also like programming 4-16 bar loops on the M8, I just don't like going much further than that. I find it gets confusing to keep track of all the elements. So what I do is import 4-16 bar sections of tracks I'm working on in a DAW. I then can add some FM elements, or added drums (I think drum programing is very nice on the M8). After I'm satisfied, I just export the stems of the new elements, and drop them into the DAW. Another way I've used the M8, is just as a multi-timbral synth. I've even used it in the DAW as kind of a VST-like instrument. Sounds great and works well with a DAW or another hardware sequencer. So I guess what I'm saying, is don't give up on it until you've tried a few more things with it. Maybe pairing it with the Digitakt as a synth engine, or just working on small sections of a track instead of trying to work on an entire song. You don't have to use the sequencer part of the M8. Worked for me, and now I really have grown to love it.

[@Duskmos]

All really good tips! I could totally see it being good for coming up with something in part, and then recording that out. I do a lot of that, sampling things to the Octatrack from other things that I don't really enjoy working with or don't have a way to save/recall - this could kind of be an extension of that. I think that's definitely a good tip for any fence sitters haha. Same goes for the DAW/VST-style use - I'm sure that would be fun! Thanks for the comments =)

[@nbchowning]

Great video however I think all of the "cons" you mentioned can just be attributed to not having enough experience with the M8 yet. It's like any other instrument or musical tool - you'll be slower, less efficient, less creative, etc... with it until you're comfortable using it. I personally noodle around and come up with creative "happy accidents" on my M8 pretty frequently. I can also whip out a quick sketch on the M8 way faster than I can in a regular daw. If you keep playing with the m8, read through the manual, learn shortcuts, etc... you'll get there. =)

[@Duskmos]

Totally true, and I say as much in the video for sure. In the end, I just think it must not be for me ultimately. I have an Octatrack and so many people hate the workflow on it, but I happen to enjoy it, and it wasn't easy to learn either, but I think it comes down to buttons and controls. I really think that was it for me on the M8. I just prefer more hands-on control and more immediate access to parameters. I totally agree with you about your DAW comparison too, I'd much rather use an M8 than write tracks in a DAW (I'm very much a hardware guy) and I think that's the crux of it, really, because I'm into hardware, I'm into the tactility and immediacy. You're def right though, with time and muscle memory, I think I could eventually be super quick with the M8, but with a studio full of knobby, more approachable stuff, I just don't think I was willing to give it the time it deserved. I still like it a lot though, conceptually haha.

[@jjurksztowicz]

Navigation becomes super fast beyond easy after a bit of a learning curve, it's the easiest device to use that I've ever owned. I can come back to the m8 after weeks away and immediately remember where everything is and start creating. To each their own, but if you give it a bit more time then your #2 and #4 points go away entirely.

[@Duskmos]

That's good to know! I think people on the fence will probably appreciate knowing that if you give it the attention it deserves, it'll prob be a pretty smooth experience. Thanks for the comment!

[@rorz999]

Totally agree, once you put in the initial hours to learn it, you don't really forget it. I can a month or so without using my M8, then pick it up and the workflow and shortcuts are second nature. The same cannot be said of boxes like the Octatrack lol

[@user-zv6is1mv5x]

What would you recommend for something portable like the M8, but a bit more immediate (not phone app). I have the same reservations on the M8 and prefer a more immediate "noodling".

[@Duskmos]

I’d have to say the OP-1 is really checking all the boxes for me in that regard. I bet an OP-Z might as well. I haven’t done much with managing samples on it yet, or finishing full tracks yet, but playing synth lines and making nice loops comes quickly and easily and having the full keyboard attached really makes it nice to jam on.

[@atalhlla]

The LSDJ-style workflow definitely takes getting used too, and as you note it isn’t for everyone. The M8 for me though has been a breath of fresh air, and something that made the difference between composing tracks and doing nothing. For context, another commenter mentioned using a notebook which is pretty much what I do, but with a half assed numerical notation instead of something more reasonable like ABC. For me though, it was less a way to work with the M8 (or LSDJ or other trackers) but more because I’m just not great at live noodling most of the time, (the only instrument I can noodle with is whistling) so bouncing between writing and execution is the only way I can do anything more than a short phrase. My brain is simultaneously too easily distracted and too easily fixated. I also find myself more comfortable with the minimal inputs of the M8 compared to the more comprehensive interfaces of bigger tools that then require me to memorize far more buttons and button states. I thin think that’s more down to me being a casual hobbyist than anything though. Maybe.

[@Duskmos]

That's some good input Joseph! and I definitely get where you're coming from, even if it's not my experience. The way we interface with our devices is so personal and varies for sure, like how I'm a fan of knob-per-function almost as much as I am a fan of deeper Elektron style menus, but I also still like some limitation and boundaries haha. Limitation breeds creativity, but also too limited and you don't feel like you've got what you need to do the job lol. It's definitely a fine line, and finding that balance is hard, but it's awesome you've got it with the M8! Thanks for stopping by!

[@donaldpriola1807]

Good points. I struggle with it at times, especially that loose jamming isn't really possible, which is how I often find ideas. At the same time, that limitation is helping me think about music a bit differently. I simultaneously marvel at how deep, and welll thought out the M8 really is. Given that one person is behind this is unbelievable. Akai still doesn't stream samples. ;) It's early days for me, and I still don't know if it's a good fit.

[@Duskmos]

Absolutely! Credit where credit is due - it’s definitely a marvel! Kudos for giving it a shot, have you had tracker experience prior to this?

[@donaldpriola1807]

@@Duskmos Some, yes. I use the Polyend tracker, and while it doesn't have nearly as many sound design options, it is a little more "live" if that makes sense.

[@Duskmos]

I could imagine that! Just button/interface alone prob lends itself to moving a little faster I'd guess?

[@shix13]

I'll confess i came here because of the title , most of the videos you see on gush over the product. There should be more like this. That said i love my M8. :) Like someone said below, you either love or hate trackers. I would also suggest that people lean to one side or the other between hardware and software. I spend ALL day on a computer for work, the last thing i want to do in my free time is menu dive Ableton or some other piece of software. I would highly encourage folks that are interested to drop the $35 on a teensy and get the headless up and running, you can do pretty much everything and never get a M8 :) If you like it spring for the hardware version and repurpose the teensy for some other cool audio project (there's lots of them). lastly if noodling is your thing, pop on a midi keyboard and poke keys until your idea sticks then fine tune from there.

[@Duskmos]

Thanks so much Larry! I'm definitely a HW guy myself, but your teensy suggestion is a good one. I'd love to mess around with creating some cool audio gear one of these days. As far as the MIDI keyboard is concerned, you're totally right, and that's fair, but I just hate connecting peripherals to things to use them the way I want to. In the case of the M8 it sort of defeats the purpose of being small and portable too. All this is to say that I want to try an OP-1 next because it seems to fit the bill a little more for what I'm looking for (but committing to audio might be a little annoying too - so it may lose me on that!) Thanks for your comments!

[@TheJKOLP]

I work on a computer all day for work too so I am hesitant about the M8 feeling like I'm still on a computer, and also staring my eyes. You still like the tracker workflow even after working on a computer all day?

[@howlinberry1645]

June 10th preorder!

[@Duskmos]

Hayyooo hope you enjoy it! 🙌

[@SLRPS]

My initial take away was pretty similar coming from the elektron background, but M8 was definitely the put in the time and learn and you walk away with a faster workflow with much more "complete" feeling songs due to the ease of organizing pattern and chains. But yeah that initial learning curve isn't very fun but once you are going on it I think it trumps just about any sequencer its just absolutely insane how fast you can iterate on an idea in it.

[@Duskmos]

That’s good to know! I’ll have to circle back to it someday maybe. I grabbed an OP-1f and it’s been a blast, but at 3x the price it’s tough to compare the two. Definitely more immediate though. I can’t deny my elektron love though, just wish they made something portable

[@Farold_Haltermeyer]

“Input note data” is really where Duskmos points out his musical brain doesn’t sync with this workflow. I’m a tracker user but totally understand the barrier this places before being able to actually play and flow is huge...very similar to the way the human brain uses different processes for writing on paper with a pen vs typing on a screen with a keyboard; they have inherently different feels and to those sensitive to that difference they have very differing outputs. The more time i spend making sounds with these kind of devices the more wary I am of having to learn menus, systems and lingos that can too easily be forgotten. Feature-sets are the marketing opiates of the day but they rarely equate to better or fresher creative output. Trackers suit some people and genres brilliantly but they cripple others, but hopefully things like the M8 and Polyend gear will eventually evolve them into something more universal and flowing...probably via an interface revolution/evolution

[@Duskmos]

You nailed it! Some say the Elektron workflow is trackeresque (which I love), and it is in a way, being able to jump from step to step while programming unique trig locks and things, but for me I just prefer being able to play something in organically and THEN go in and nerd out when I edit.

[@Farold_Haltermeyer]

@@Duskmos BINGO! That rings so many bells. On that journey I've kinda found midi recorders kinda fit that bill but not in every case...kinda hijacking the topic a bit what would you add to this little list: the live recording on the Polyend Tracker actually almost gets there...the little Retrokits RK008 midi recorder allows for non-destructive per step quantisation and is a lot fun but an arse to edit...the Hapax finally looks to be the sequencer nearest to that "play first, futz after" flow and has enough sequencer resolution and CC control to make it choreless plus you get the tactility of being able to draw waveforms and modulation shapes with your hands, but it's a chunky beast in form and cost...oddly some of the older Korg stuff seems to get it a bit more, allowing for high resolution midi recording AND motion recording so you can futz and dabble after, but it never evolved fully. I'm waffling...what bits of gear work for you in that context?

[@Duskmos]

​@@Farold_Haltermeyer To be honest with you I've never used a dedicated standalone MIDI recorder before, but for me, I mostly come from a background of first-gen Korg Electribes and then moved into the MPC1000. From there I took a break during my college years and then picked up the first gen Maschine before finding Elektron. Ever since then I've been really loving the Elektron workflow. It just suits me, BUT, because of coming from a background of either step editing or playing in loosely on the MPC where I grew to enjoy recording without quantizing, I sort of landed in a place where I do "takes" until a pass feels right to me, and then let it simmer for a while and then come back and shift things around if need be. I almost always realtime record in my notes on pieces like the A4 or RYTM (but then go in and nudge notes around). I feel like I do a lot more step programming on the Octatrack (but always play with sample parameters that easily wonk that up - in a good way haha) but also find myself playing in slices in realtime and occasionally using chromatic mode. I use CV from my A4 to control my SH-101 as well, which comes in handy, and then my OTs midi tracks for things like my Modor NF-1 or anything else - and the same benefits apply to the nudge-ability of notes. I also like being able to keep those sequences on external gear saved in with my OT projects, using the OT as a master brain - I guess in that sense it is a midi controller haha. I think I put my name on the list for a Cirklon like 2 years ago now however haha. =)

[@Farold_Haltermeyer]

@@Duskmos I hear ya :) and well done for holding out for the Cirklon...I think I cancelled at 18 months and went for the Hapax, I don't have your patience. OT remains my hub/brain too, I just enjoy working with it

[@megahozer13]

Ive made the most music on this device once it clicks youll fly through the menus , just upgraded to the polyend tracker

[@Duskmos]

How do you compare the two? Do you like one better than the other?

[@NetvoTV]

I know 80s and syntheave but can M8 Tracker MK2 do more than these? It seem like everyone buy it just to make these even rhe promotion ads, also if I want my first music learning and making device, should I get it or OP-1 Field, just one without getting any extra addition to make music like ultra modern music?

[@712Jefferson]

Nice breakdown. Thank you.

[@Duskmos]

I figured it was worth talking about from a non-tracker user / tracker-noob perspective haha. Thanks for the comment! =)

[@eugene_crane_uvu]

I'm wondering if an iPad Mini with good softtware might be a more usable alternative.

[@Duskmos]

Interesting take, and maybe so! Always flexible interface-wise, and could do a lot of other things with other apps (trackers included I would imagine). I guess there are more potential distractions there though...and the same is said for a phone or a laptop, and avoiding distractions is one of the reasons I really love the hardware experience in music-making to begin with. Might have to try it though!

[@1TrackerMind]

Fair points.. I have the headless version and the learning curve is more like a wall, but not impossible. For me, being able to just pick up a device and play outweighs a lot of that. Maybe a strange question, but would you be willing to sell it? I was thinking about getting one..

[@Duskmos]

Yeahhh I definitely know I could get to the point of enjoying the workflow, but I just didn’t really want to commit haha. I actually mention in the outro that I was selling (but actually sold) it already. Great piece of gear if you like the workflow though! Keep an eye on the website and check back every week, I did that and was able to score one. Good luck!

[@1TrackerMind]

Ah.. should have waited to watch it till the end 😬😂

[@Duskmos]

Haha no worries! :) Thanks for watching and for the comment!

[@bjamminsincebirth3494]

I think your thinking aligns with my thinking and you saved me

[@Duskmos]

Haha I may just have! That being said, sometimes stuff is worth checking out to see whether or not you're into it. The HW itself is great and I do think it would be fun to use, if you have the time and desire to learn a whole new way of doing things haha. Have you tried any tracker? How about an OP-1? I'm curious about trying out an OP to see how that gels (or doesn't).

[@bjamminsincebirth3494]

@@Duskmos Yeah I tried one Renoise just today. I couldn’t stand it. I sold my OP-1 Field. I loved it and it’s easier than a tracker for sure. I have the SP404 Mk2. I use Drambo and Ableton mostly.

[@bjamminsincebirth3494]

@@Duskmos The OP-1 Field is amazing and lots of fun but the issue I have with it was I never finished songs. It’s a great starter though. It sounds amazing. It’s just the 4 track limitation was my issue with it.

[@Duskmos]

@@bjamminsincebirth3494 I kinda figured it would be that way from the looks of things, but I guess I wouldn't mind that too much because I could always sample whatever I come up with onto the OT. I definitely want something portable that sounds good and is a good sketchpad but also fun. I feel like I need to give the OP-1 Field a shot.

[@bjamminsincebirth3494]

@@Duskmos you should. It’s definitely fun and they update with new features. How do you like the OT? I really want one to go with my SP.

[@avrilcadabra]

I don't know I why watched this, but I did and it was nice to see someone so positive. I think everything you said was understandable. About the usb mounting, being that the Teensy that powers the m8 cannot mount as a hard drive, that's simply why. Impressive that it can do midi, class compliant audio, and serial for the remote display over the usb though and while charging. Have a great day.

[@Duskmos]

Thanks for checking it out anyway and I appreciate the comment! Ah interesting about the teensy/usb situation, understandable if it's a limitation like that because it's built on a platform (and inheriting its limitations). I was thinking in the back of my head "that can't be a choice" haha. Thanks for sharing the info! 🙌

[@miggychan]

For me the M8 is very niche to begin with but that's always been the appeal. I've messed with traditional daws for years and still love them but ever since I touched lsdj in highschool I haven't stopped using trackers. Especially with the m8, Johan the creator of lsdj gave his blessing on the m8 and it really shows with the workflow. I was able to take years of muscle memory with lsdj and expand upon that with all these new commands and engines. I get that the interface isn't the most inviting thing but for people like myself who could never really grasp sheet music and would resort to tabs for guitar etc., It's really accessible for me to just see a note and an octave value on a 16 step sequence. With the wave engine, the fm engine (which you can recreate dx7 patches with), the macrosynth, the new chord synth, the sampler, the ability to lock your music to a scale/key and create your own micro-tonal scales nothing else on the market comes close imo. The community maintained song library and instrument libraries are also insanely invaluable as far as inspiration and education on how to use the m8 to it's fullest. I hope you are able to get more comfy with it's interface and workflow should you ever revisit the m8, but I just want everyone to enjoy this thing as much as I do haha. Great video btw, I respect that you gave the m8 an honest try and reviewed it very fairly!

[@Duskmos]

Thanks for the input! I agree with you, the sound engines and sampling ability were top tier. I think another reason I didn't gel with it, you kinda reminded me of, is that I also never have used a DAW to create music, only to record/finalize. I think that's maybe a bit why I didn't love the tracker workflow, because it felt too much like I wasn't playing an instrument, more like programming one. I like synths with keys or drum machines with pads, and that's just a personal thing. Granted I like XOX programming and Elektron sequencing because I can nudge and set trig conditions, but those are things I do after I "play it in" so to speak, and again feel like editing what I created more organically instead of starting with the rigidity of that "edit" mindset. Of course I love the diversity in methods and approaches and tools, and the M8 is another great option for those of us who are into that flow. I have since picked up an OP-1 Field, and that has been fun, but a different set of challenges haha. I'll be making a video like this on that as well. It's only fair! =)

[@chaoswires2734]

Nice opinion! Every device is made for certain group of people. Btw, you already have portable powerhouse in your pocket - iPhone. Or iPad - just get AUM and few plugins, and it will blow your mind regading amount of features it offers

[@Duskmos]

I have to be honest that I’ve neglected that space entirely! I’ll need to get into that a bit more someday. I did get an OP-1F so that’s going to be my new portable exploration device, just getting to terms with it still.

[@Apticx]

It took a few weeks of intense use for me to really get used to it (its my first real tracker experience) but now that im using it almost daily its faster for me to work on it than even on desktop daws like fl or ableton. Its just so intuitive once you understood its base navigation layout that you can work and navigate on it without even looking for around 80% of the time. I am now switching to renoise even on pc because i want to try to take the m8 workflow and somehow implement it there. Also for file management i feel you. its a bit tedious and i wish there was some kind of better management inferface while browsing so you can move stuff around and manage files on the sd card properly without plugging it into a pc

[@Apticx]

+ if you want to noodle around its great to just plug in a external keyboard. its not the same as having it all built in but its certainly a improvement. overall the m8 is a gameboy with lsdj on steroids and its still blowing my mind in how good a portable device can sound each time i turn it on.

[@Duskmos]

That's awesome that you're digging it! Also, you're right that you can definitely "enhance" the experience with external controllers, and I'm sure they might eventually build in some sort of file manager or something like that for that piece of the puzzle. I could see that being a software update down the line perhaps. I don't doubt that it grows on you, it surely is capable and it sounds awesome no doubt. I sold it and ended up getting an OP-1F and it's been fun, but not without its drawbacks too. I just want to try it all and have the time to learn it all haha, nbd.

[@Thedrumsthebass]

For every pro and con I was like “ooooooh me likey.” Come to papa

[@Duskmos]

Haha that's great! I take it you're planning on picking one up? Judging by your username my guess is you would be all about it haha. Have you checked out Pete Cannon's videos w/ all the old Amiga and Akai stuff? Really badass production and looks like a ton of fun.

[@Thedrumsthebass]

@@Duskmos absolutely. This thing was made for the heads who enjoy the tracker workflow. I’m going to tell you a secret. It took me about a year and a half to get good and understand it. Once you “get it” there’s nothing else you would rather use. It’s the bees knees

[@Duskmos]

@@Thedrumsthebass That's awesome - yeah honestly I could see myself giving it a chance in the future when life allows haha. I like a new challenge for sure, it just didn't really fit into my situation for now haha. I'm still learning the Octatrack - 5 years in haha. =)

[@Thedrumsthebass]

@@Duskmos eBay link or bust 😂😂

[@Duskmos]

@@Thedrumsthebass Loll

[@aiekmeeisnhdye]

Great video. I actually like programming trackers and am definitely buying the m8, but I'd love to see some good criticism like yours in other gear reviews. The Polyend tracker, for instance has an awful MIDI implementation and nobody talks about it...

[@Duskmos]

Thanks for watching and for your comment! I think it’s definitely good to hear all angles for sure - and that sucks about the tracker! I wonder if people are mostly using it as standalone and so they don’t really care? Definitely something worth talking about for those who do care though. I personally never get tooooo deep into midi outside of tempo and transport, sometimes programming notes on another device, and I guess program changes, but I don’t mess with CCs, although so powerful it just seems like a real pain to set up haha 😆

[@XtianApi]

I think I'm like you. I'm loving my deluge. Only thing I've stuck with for years. Now, with the oled and open source firmware, any new sequencers I look at I don't need. Thank you

[@Duskmos]

The Deluge has always looked pretty cool, and even more now with the updated screen - in fact the screen was always a weak spot in my opinion and kept me away from it, so that was cool to see. I’ve yet to try it but I could see it being a lot of fun! Thanks for checking out the video :)

[@BrentODell]

I've played around with an M8 a few times, and I want to like it. I think it's super cool, and the size is amazing. I guess I just don't have a need for something that portable. I rarely even work in the office, so if I want to work on music during a break, I have my entire 'studio' worth of gear within reach. All that said, I still kinda want one...

[@Duskmos]

I think that's totally fair and kinda where I fell too, more or less. If I had infinite money or more time to get to know it, then sure I'd totally have kept it haha. The way I saw it is that it wasn't exactly my kind of thing, and was too much money to keep it and see if I eventually got along with it. I ended up getting an OP-1F which I've enjoyed a lot more, but it's even more expensive and I also don't live the most "mobile" life either. I usually have maybe 2 or 3 international trips a year and I thought I'd really enjoy having something like either on such a long trip, but then with meals and trying to sleep and having enough elbow room to operate them let alone feeling like you're in the mood to produce music on top of all that...it's hard to justify "needing" the portability haha. I'm trying to take my OP out to breweries with me or take it out to go sit on my deck and that has been nice, but also feels a lil forced too haha. I want to just be able to have whatever I want when I want it and not when I don't...is that too much to ask?? Lol thanks for commenting!

[@BrentODell]

@@Duskmos the extent of my 'mobile' production is taking my MPC Live II into the other room and playing with it while I watch TV :)

[@sinewaymusic]

As someone who loves the Elektron workflow and hates the fact that there is no portable Digitakt with stereo sampling, I take this as a fair warning. Elektron is often compared to the tracker workflow in that it has the p-locks, but you're right that they've approached in a more traditional instrument way with xox trigs and physical knobs. You can easily noodle on a Digitakt since it has 16 "keys". So I see your point about noodling being less intuitive on a tracker, even though they tend to have many generative functions that could lead you to happy accidents. I'm personally considering trying the Polyend Tracker Mini and I'm really intrigued with the built-in mic and the portability. As an old-time software engineer, the tracker workflow isn't too dissimilar to writing scripts, so I'm thinking maybe I'll get on with it. However, I keep reading people describing the Polyend Tracker workflow vs the M8 workflow as night and day. Not sure where that places the new Mini, but it seems Polyend isn't the most popular tracker choice among the purists.

[@Duskmos]

Agreed! That being said, I’ve had others recommend the Polyend Tracker to me because *it is* so different, so maybe it’s more of a hybrid and a little less tracker-y haha, which I could def see making purists less enthused about it. I’m intrigued by the new pocket as well, and hope it does well for them. I ended up ordering an OP-1 Field yesterday, so that’s going to be an adventure, but looking forward to having something portable at my disposal again! PS an (officially released) battery powered Digi style box would be pretty fun. Something more than a Model series, but smaller and thinner than a Digi box. Would be fun to see happen. 😎

[@sinewaymusic]

@@Duskmos Congrats on the OP-1F! You have a more generous budget for these things than I do, I excluded that one from my shortlist purely for the price tag. But it does seem fun, although I personally prefer to have the ability to go back and alter parameters of tracks after the song starts to come together. I tried the SP-404 MKII and dislike that workflow of bring forced to commit the effects. I have too much of a producer mindset for that kind of commitment. 😊 But I hope you will enjoy it! Indeed, a portable Digitakt would be the ultimate dream. Usb-c power, built-in battery, built-in mic, plastic build quality, stereo sampling. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[@Duskmos]

Thank you! I'm pretty excited - gets here Monday! I have been eyeing one since I first saw one back in 2010, so this is a long time coming. Weirdly I've been doing this for a number of years but have yet to try it, somehow. I'm a little bit afraid of "meeting my hero" but, the portability alone is very exciting to me so I really think that alone will mean so much that I can't be disappointed, but time will tell haha. I have found my way into some pretty pricey gear over the years, but so much of that has been through trades, waiting and scoring great deals, or selling off a few things at once to afford that next thing that's a level up. I bet you could sell/trade out of some other gear and be closer to picking up an OP-1F than you think (whether you'd be willing to give up those other things might be another story haha - I know that struggle all too well lol). I am excited to see what Elektron does next, and will always be a fan of what they put out...hopefully you and I both get to try it all! =)

[@sinewaymusic]

@@Duskmos Yeah I try hard to only by used gear and I've occasionally made some profit on them too. That's the way to avoid too much financial loss. I'm an electronic music producer so I've learned that the devices I enjoy the most are the ones that don't force me to commit to printing stems until the whole song is arranged and mixed. This is why the SP doesn't work for me because its workflow was really made for a resample-and-commit workflow. But it's also an extremely clunky workflow and I'm sure the OP-1F is much more fun to use. I did manage to generate an interesting new music idea on the SP that I then powered over to the DAW, so in theory it's a fun sketchpad. I'm sure you'll have fun with the OP-1F for similar reasons. 😊 The devices that have clicked with me the most are the Digitone, Digitakt, Syntakt, and the MPC. All of them let me keep tracks separately for final mixing and finishing touches in the DAW. The devices I've enjoyed the least are the MC-101 (clunky workflow), SP-404 MKII (clunky workflow - a Roland thing maybe?), PO-133 (felt like a toy). So, clearly I'm searching for something portable just like you, but that retains the open-ended workflow of an Elektron, MPC or otherwise, meaning that it separates tracks and doesn't force you to mix down things to sketch out the full track.

[@Corrupt66668]

It reminds me of the newer Korgs coming out even the Korg Volca kick felt like it was overly digital for someone looking to just start writing music right away with out having to tweak and make presets or whatever

[@Duskmos]

Hm I see where your coming from, but I’d have to say I feel like the M8 is on a higher plane than that. It’s just not super immediate (unless you’re already a tracker pro I guess). I like that you can load samples easily and the built in synth engines sounded pretty nice! So that makes it easier than relying on crafting all the sounds with a lot of tweaking (although that’s still a thing), but yeah there’s def a barrier to just “diving in” which made it hard for me to love. I’ve since gotten an OP-1 and am having a blast with it. Whole different beast.

[@rorz999]

I would not describe the Volca Kick as overly digital lol. It's pretty uncompromisingly analogue

[@douglasl2409]

It’s great to see a positive review it recommending a piece of gear. I’ve been tracker curious for a while. To me, from the outside looking in, it looks like a rigid platform. Surely this can’t be the case. I know Bogdan Raczynski uses trackers for his music a rigid isn’t a word I’d use to describe his tunes. I’d be curious to know if you ever took to this process so many month later.

[@Duskmos]

Thanks for watching and for leaving such a considered comment. I think it ultimately isn't a workflow that I enjoy and I ended up selling it. I may try it out again someday, but I have since picked up an OP-1 Field and find that to be much more my kind of thing (even though recording to audio has it's own limitations) but I like having the keyboard and it has a much more usable interface as far as I'm concerned. The M8 is more than capable though and I def think it's *exactly* the right thing for some people. =)

[@douglasl2409]

I love making music in a DAW. I love mixing the near limitless functionality of the computer with the experience of play I get with hardware. I think that’s why trackers aren’t for me. Ive already got my grid. I can see the appeal though, particularly if I wanted to get away from the computer. The thing is I don’t want to get away from it. I just don’t want it to be everything. I think you where very fair in you review and quite clear that this is a great thing if your into it. All in all, I’m just happy to watch a heartfelt video on music gear that isn’t a sales pitch. A rare thing to come across on KZbin if you’re into synths and pedals. To be clear, I don’t hate the sales pitch. I actively seek them out and spend a ton of time watching them. It’s just nice to see something that isn’t that every once in a while. Thanks for another great video! @@Duskmos

[@rolobotoman]

Hope you sticked to it. Composing music is harder than noodling around, but it's where actual creativity sits. Trackers are really indimidating at first but they're pretty strait forward once you dig in.. then comes the other intimidating factor, you actually have to make something.

[@Duskmos]

Totally true! I made a couple beats on it and it was cool, I just didn’t gel with the workflow. I think it’s an awesome piece of tech, but I just find I need keys or pads to express myself musically (in the electronic world). Otherwise it just feels too much like software, instead of hardware. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment! :)

[@Randuski]

I've never used a tracker, but i do not think they're for me haha but i see this thing all the time, and god damn theyre so cool. I want one so bad, but i know I'll get it and be annoyed 🤣

[@Duskmos]

Haha can't lie that's why I had to try it out. I think if you think you might be annoyed, you probably will be - that's kind of how I felt too but wanted to find out for sure haha. Thanks for the comment!

[@davelee1935]

Polyend tracker mini kicks ass

[@Duskmos]

Might have to check it out! You have one?

[@blesshiscottonsocks]

I'm unsure how spending a couple of hours with a piece of gear is enough to make criticisms about its speed and usability... This video probably took more time than you invested in actually learning it?

[@Duskmos]

No, def spent more time with the device. I made a few tracks actually! You can tell if you gel with something pretty fast. If you watched the whole video I very much said I could’ve spent more time to learn it but chose not to invest in it because right out of the gate I realized it wasn’t for me. Thanks for the comment!

[@JonathanKillstring]

I am still looking to get one, but I am worried about my GIANT HANDS and bad eyes, lol

[@Duskmos]

Haha oh no! How giant? I have big hands but skinny fingers and it was perfectly comfortable. I'd say you'd only be in trouble if you have sausage fingers lol. For the eyesight issue, you can hook this up and use your computer as an external display over USB (in a window) which is super cool. I guess on the go you'd have to struggle a little, but at least near a computer you can blow things up!

[@JonathanKillstring]

@@Duskmos took a quick measurement: middle finger is 4" long and has a circumfrance tapering from 3" to 2.5". So not the sausage-iest of fingers, but I was definitely among the folks who found original xbox controllers comfortable, lol.

[@Duskmos]

@@JonathanKillstring Haha I think you'll be fine then! I just measured mine (didn't think I'd be doing that today) and they're the same size, middle finger is like 3.9" though, but yeah, effectively the same. I wouldn't worry. The keys are keyboard keycaps, and it feels small in the hands but perfectly comfortable to use.

[@JonathanKillstring]

@@Duskmos That is super good to hear! :D

[@dmks2146]

it's funny. that thing really clicked with me. I had a lot of devices over the years (never tried trackers) but this is the only one that feels as immediate as picking up my guitar. flow state box with the looks of an excel gameboy for kids.

[@Duskmos]

Haha that’s great! “Excel GameBoy for kids” - nailed it! Glad it clicked with you - we’re all so different. I’m glad so many different approaches to music making exist, keeps things interesting. ✌️

[@cakesteak]

Here's a fix for people who hate scrolling through notes to find them: Use the M8 web interface, or plug into it and hide it away: Get a small computer or anything with usb that can run a browser, plug your control surface of choice in (like a regular computer keyboard), hide the computer away with it still plugged in, noodle on the keyboard. Yes you can noodle using keys asdfghjkl etc. no more scrolling through notes to find the one you want. Now you can randomly press notes in the grid (like the polyend), except with a good keyboard like tracker folks are used to.

[@Duskmos]

That’s a great tip! Set it up in the bigger rig when you’re at home and then scoop it up to edit in the go. 👌

[@kikencorp]

my brother in synths why did you get a tracker

[@Duskmos]

I like trying new ways of working! Like trying out the Ciat-Lonbarde instruments too. Just to get away from the norm and try some unique instruments is always fun to me, and though I didn't gel with the tracker workflow, I'm glad I tried it!

[@subiesojourner777]

The M8 is my first tracker, I've messed around a bit with Sunvox on an old Palm OS handheld PDA and I thought this might be similar, um no where near. That being said, I watched a slew of videos, placed my order and waited about 4 months. Now, you couldn't pry it out of my hands. It is a bit of a learning curve, but well worth the time invested. Lastly, Tim at Dirtywave is still pushing out updates that are turning the M8 int a little power house beast.

[@Duskmos]

The support and constant development for this is huge, definitely a selling point, and you can tell it’s a labor of love for sure. Always gotta admire that! Definitely a beast! Thanks for the comment 🙌

[@father_jordan]

Love my M8 but everyone's workflow and preferences are different.

[@Duskmos]

Yeah! That's exactly my point! It's a cool bit of gear for sure. Glad you enjoy it and thanks for stopping by! =)

[@Niven42]

I can't see forking out the $600 for one of these, no matter what. I feel like one of the major players will eventually get around to releasing a mass-market version at 1/2 the price.

[@Duskmos]

I'm sure you're right, as that's how things usually seem to go. Polyend just came out with theirs and it's actually $699! That being said they do pack a lot in and they're kind of a good deal compared to some competing similar products, but yeah if someone came out with one around $3-400, I'm sure they'd get a ton of interest!

[@avrilcadabra]

the major players would have no interest in something as niche as trackers, and even if they did how can they compete with someone that has over 30 years experience using them.

[@contractcooker]

TBH this whole video sounds like you haven't used the device enough. I think most of this comes down to not having the muscle memory. Granted not every piece of gear is going to gel for every musician. it's great that we live in a time with so many options. I think if you made yourself use it for an hour a day for 2 to 3 weeks your opinion on it would change. Not everyone likes spending time learning a new workflow and that's totally ok but I would urge anyone going for a tracker to spend the time up front learning the workflow backwards and forward before making a judgement call.

[@Duskmos]

I learned pretty quickly that it wasn’t for me, muscle memory or not. I know some of my points would fade away with time, but I think at the core I just don’t like trackers and I thought I’d give it the best shot I could with the coolest hardware out there to make it appealing enough for me to want to go for it. I’m pretty confident that even if I was speedy with it (I got pretty quick when I was using it the first couple weeks about every other day or so - had since forgotten by the time I shot the video), I just wouldn’t like the workflow, but of course that’s just me. I don’t think you have to learn something in and out before making a call, I’ve never touched a harp and I know I don’t want to play one lol. Thanks for watching and for the comment!

[@namdinh1540]

Is it the smallest standalone music-producing machine?

[@Duskmos]

Honestly to produce whole tracks, I think it might be! That alone is pretty impressive.

[@rorz999]

Yes

[@meneerjansen00]

$560?

[@Duskmos]

Haha if that’s an offer mine is long sold. I might try again someday, but I just don’t think it’s my vibe.

[@granolakitti8521]

You an use it as a MIDI synth engine if you dislike the tracker interface 😊

[@Duskmos]

Very true! And the synth sounds were pretty great. I didn’t personally enjoy tweaking the parameters though.

[@granolakitti8521]

@Duskmos it is a product for a very specific group. I have used trackers since that 90'ies so it comes natural to me, and I have the button memory from LSDJ so it's perfect for me. I'm glad you made a video with this topic because it's definitely not for everyone 😊

[@Duskmos]

@@granolakitti8521 That's awesome that you have the button memory still! Is it the same as LSDJ in that regard? That would be a nice crossover appeal.

[@granolakitti8521]

@Duskmos all the shortcuts are the same like selecting, duplicating, copying and pasting 😊

[@_-Marcel-_]

Thank you! Very helpful for me possibly not to buy one.

[@Duskmos]

Haha happy to help! I definitely don’t want to tell people not to buy it, because it is technically pretty great, it’s just not for me. Sounds like we probably like to work the same way though.

[@_-Marcel-_]

You've made it very clear that you don't want to spoil the device for anyone. And yes, I think we could have a similar way of trying to create music e.g,. 5:05 by noodling around. : )

[@Duskmos]

@@_-Marcel-_ haha I’m glad you watched the whole thing, in KZbin land some folks just skim a few seconds and jump to commenting so I want to make it clear haha 😆 but yeah, from what I’m gathering most folks way of noodling on trackers is just the happy accident method, which I am a fan of too, but not by default, which eh, not my jam.

[@Beetoe]

I gave you a 👍🏻 but I just bought one

[@Duskmos]

No hater here! I’m glad. What do you think?

[@Beetoe]

@@Duskmos early to say because I just received mine, but man am I excited!

[@Duskmos]

That’s great! It sounds 👌

[@Beetoe]

@@Duskmosforgot to add, just subbed 👍🏻🙏🏻

[@Duskmos]

@Beetoe hey hey welcome to the fam! 🙌

[@ZenMountain]

You just don't like trackers.

[@Duskmos]

Haha you’re right 😅 I love the hardware and capabilities of the thing though! I wanted to love it haha

[@ZenMountain]

@@Duskmos I understand, trackers do have a different workflow. Great video.

[@Duskmos]

Thank you! Yeah haha just not for me but thought I’d share my experience - there’s a lot to like about the thing - and trackers in general. :)

[@lockyp204]

Looks awesome if you can appreciate the work flow. Not for me either. Although I do get pangs of jealousy at those who gel with it. As It looks very cool, and the portability factor is amazing

[@Duskmos]

@@lockyp204 Yes! That's exactly how I feel about it haha

[@trevor_mounts_music]

so small...so fiddly...so expensive for what it is. I'd rather use my laptop with renoise imo. If it gets more people into trackers that's awesome, but I'm kind of in agreement with all your points in this vid - cool product, but not for me.

[@Duskmos]

I think “fiddly” is what I personally don’t gel with the most. I think it’s good to admit when something is cool but you’re just not into it - too many people are all in on “this is the best ever” and “this is trash” and there’s WAY too much between those ends of the spectrum where I think most things actually exist haha. I appreciate the comment and thanks for watching!

[@rorz999]

I thought it would be fiddly and that I'd miss a full QWERTY keyboard (I also came from Renoise) until I tried it. The workflow really has been optimised around those 8 keys. It's a different way of tracking but it's just as valid

[@davedyall8332]

The M8 is linux and the others are windows.

[@Duskmos]

I like that analogy!

[@ericfraser728]

Looking to trade a PT for a m8, hmu if you're interested!

[@Duskmos]

For clarity, you're talking about a Polyend Tracker right? Also, try some of the forums if you haven't. I've had some good luck with trades on places like Elektronauts in the past. =)

[@ericfraser728]

Thank you, I've done some trades on Elektronauts before and found the trade section! Yes my Polyend Tracker for a Dirtywave M8.

[@eonratslear981]

Intro to the iPhone app that makes this 1990’s pager obsolete in 3, 2, 1….

[@Duskmos]

Haha oh mannnn. I mean you're not wrong, but also there's something to be said about "siloed" and purpose-built gear that gets you away from the distractions of your phone or computer. We could all make music on our computers and wouldn't need gear at all, but there's something to having dedicated devices for specific purposes, but I mean, I'd download the app for $9.99 if it were one haha. 😆

[@rorz999]

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@wangledteb5671]

hey send me yours if you dont like it :P i want one lol

[@Duskmos]

Haha 😆 if I had that kind of money, I would! Lol I sold it to help fund an OP-1 field - which also isn’t perfect, but I’m just trying to try it all out if I can. Hope you’re able to pick up a M8 soon! It sounds so good 👌

[@_EightySix]

yeah that thing is super unappealing to me. Looks like work. Staring at a tiny screen trying to program note values and velocities, etc. Sounds annoying as phuck. It'd be cool if I could use it to fly a drone or unlock random doors or something, but for music, no.

[@Duskmos]

Haha! Yeah it's definitely a different style of working. I'd take a retro modern phone with this UI, some pixelized texting and 8-bit navigation and Uber would be fun.

[@ibrajimenez2098]

Maybe music making is not for you 😂

[@heffe4257]

I just don’t get it… There’s 8 buttons on it, how do you actually play music?

[@Duskmos]

Haha yeahhh, I'd call it a bit more of a "music computer" than an instrument, but that being said, it if you like that approach, the thing sounds great. Thanks for checking out the video!

[@heffe4257]

@@Duskmos Interesting. The sounds coming from it sound amazing, just confusing lol

[@Duskmos]

@@heffe4257 Haha agreed! That workflow isn't for everyone (myself included). Happy to have tried it out though. At least I know now haha.

[@myreviewdotcom]

I think OP-Z is more musical in terms of playability...

[@Duskmos]

I believe that! The keyboard and sequencing right at the forefront... I don't like the lack of screen (or having to pair it with a device to have a display) but I think it would also be a pretty great option, and the price is pretty nice too. I'll have to try it out! Do you have one?

[@myreviewdotcom]

@@Duskmos I had one for 4 months - my friend gave it to me while was on work trips. The only a drawbacks for me are: 16 steps sequencer and build quality - after quite a lot of use some buttons may double trigger. But all in all OPZ is nice unit. As for M8 - I saw a video where owner connected PC screen to M8 to have a better view as screen is relatively small.

[@Duskmos]

I have heard some mixed reviews of the OP-Z build for sure. I am hoping they'll do a field and it'll be a little nugget of aluminum. That would be super cool and I'd have to try that out!