THE DISCUSSION TABLE: Marianas Trench - 'Haven' Album Reaction/Review

[@audreyoberlin9077]

Marianas Trench is so underrated in the US. I want them to get big and popular cause they deserve it but I also want to keep them as our little secret.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

It could still happen! These days so many older songs are coming back out of the blue to become hits - Marianas Trench could have their moment!

[@TheAligorithm]

We can do the same for Sean and Alex's band too and keep helping them get big and popular (even if it's better to have them be our secret hehehe)

[@kaelingood4640]

It’s really interesting to hear Americans talk about Marianas Trench. They are so big in Canada but it’s crazy how they aren’t a big band anywhere else. Well I guess it’s because they take 5 years between each album (which sucks cause they make such good music). Seeing them live is such an experience though and whenever they come to town it’s a treat!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

It's definitely a shame that Ever After/Astoria didn't achieve more worldwide success - both of those records fit their respective zeitgeists well, and a world where Haven't Had Enough or Who Do You Love would have been inescapable hits is the a world that I would love to live in! Absolutely agree about their live show, too - I'm looking forward to seeing them in October!

[@tjttbtt2466]

It was fun to watch your disagreements on some of the songs here. Now or never is my favorite off of this record with Lightning and Thunder next. I saw them last night in Minneapolis last night and you'll all be glad to hear that Josh apologized to the crowd and assured us that it won't be another 5 year wait for the next record to come out. They're freaking fantastic in concert and we had a bonus duet. Cassadee Pope cane out and sang Good to you with Josh.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

I just saw them in Milwaukee, and the Josh/Cassadee duet was a big highlight - terrific performance of that song!

[@Swordtee40]

As a Canadian, been listening to Mariana’s Trench since the late 2000s, and this band has so many bops!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

That's awesome! You guys are so lucky that you get them on the radio!

[@TheAligorithm]

Everyone in unison, seeing another comment because of another thought: "Oh Geeez, Not Again" The heroes journeys context and theme for Josh in this album about fatherhood and becoming a father. A Normal Life - I literally refuse to type a 48 chapter novel on my thoughts, ideas, analysis and production appreciation. If you would like to discuss further, you are ALWAYS welcome to discuss with me! Lightning and Thunder - I think the 45 second intro fading but orchestral fading in and out is actually more of an ethereal way to represent the miracle of their baby and heaven; the latter representing Josh's parents who both passed away in 2020 (Forget Me Not from Astoria? OOFF it hit different now). The first verse is Josh not noticing it was a positive pregnancy test (with a slight subtle nod to previous pregnancy hardship potentially), and the joy and excitement but at the same time the fear of not knowing if he has what it takes. The chorus being him realizing now they're both changed forever. it's going to be worth it. nomatter how things seemed to be going well and the puzzles almost fitting right, they're thrust into this life of parenthood and fatherhhod that's going to be harder than thunder and lightning. There is a sense of subconcious understanding that this life as an artist in a band and the band is coming to an end, which is also part of the overall theme. Ancient History - I originally wasn't the biggest fan but the groove was reminiscent of Yesterday and then I got into it after a couple listens (I have to listen front to back for the FULL experience too lol). So I did my little analysis of the music, production, lyrics, placement, and I've come to the conclusion..it's not about Amanda.... it's about the band. Like nomatter what happens now, nomatter what happens to the band in the future, as lives go on and get busy (with all of the guys married + having children now) they will ALWAYS be a part of each others ancient history. Hence why it sounds like Yesterday (because Yesterday seems like Ancient History - which whether near or far, you can't remove from their chapters pages). Then with that perspective, I've relistened and watched the video and bruh(s).... Also that second verse? The lyrics are thematically so cohesive with the idea of mother nature, the weather concept, and so on. I have more to say OBVIOUSLY lol. Into the Storm - I have so much to say but this is getting LENGTHY lmfao. (the way "storm" is being emphasized before the final time with the huge guitar and drums moment is so chaotic like a storm) "just repeat this long goodbye" - gives me so many callbacks to the "long goodbyes" at the end of each album, and the lyrics about saying goodbye in his previous work but back then it was about Amanda.... and now the tone is different because it's him assuring them BOTH, right before she's about to deliver that baby in Worlds Collide, that here we go but this was meant to be this way. "We were born to step into the storm" - regardless of the lyrics prior to this in the song, it's understanding "It's not giving up, it's surrender" - first time he sings it at the beginning is with the vocals of him kind of trying to convince himself then at the end of the song it's confident and shows the new him is ready to go forward. Stand and Fight and Turn and Run are the perfect opposites. Stand and Fight, when thinking about Porcelain from Ever After... it just hits DIFFERENT. Fight or flight? what happens when you believe you will always stand and fight... and have been standing and fighting when you've thought you were losing it all (his past addictions, Amanda, the band, family, life etc) and the last portion is probably the first time I've ever heard Josh be on this side of the narrative and I'm so proud of him for showing up for himself and realizing he has been standing and fighting. BUT why back to back? you say you will STAND AND FIGHT and maybe even are trying to inspire someone to do the same....... only to realize that for you? the time is up, life is literally about to change, and you're standing on the edge of the unknown world yet and that part of you wants to literally run away (calling back to A Normal Life with lyrics and melody) but you know you can never become anything if you always run away. Even though he's pretending to not even consider leaving, he's so fully aware that he NEEDS to not turn and run anymore. Then the WELCOME TO THE EDGE repeated before the huge musicalgasm that was the latter portion of the song is pretty much being like... oh its literally time now. I want to run, but i'm going to stay and I may fall off the earth but itll be okay... Worlds Collide - the end of the world didnt ruin him, he didnt fall off and the world didnt end when the baby was born. But rather, to your point of it incoroporating all the previous albums elements into it, yeah it was intentional and is a melodic colliding of the worlds he made with her prior to this grandeose event. The life he made, the life he is living and the life he is now dividing between being Josh, being in Marianas Trench, and being the man he thought he'd supposed to be by now. This is a song to his son... and the last lyrics being "You and I, Were meant to try. It's not the end, When we collide (I've been waiting all my life) All my life, For you to arrive" NOMATTER WHAT FEAR HE HAD THIS IS ALL HE HAS EVER WANTED. Nights Like These - totally understand your perspectives. When you take into account the song prior was the sigh of relief and moment Josh realized life isnt a disaster after all, but after sleeping together and sharing a hospital bed because they brought the baby home on the 3rd night. Now everything is different (as mentioned in lightning and thunder), but it all kind of feels the same so at the end of the day, regardless of the rest of the day, he is forever choosint to remember and honor the nights like these with the newborn AS WELL as saying goodbye to the band and touring and performing. Those are best friends. It's lowkey so sweet and especially because he's let go of all the fear and pain he was afraid of. Remember Me By is a play on words with Forget Me Not. (I typed that as 1:16:14 came on and you said the same exact thing hahahaha.) Forget Me Not being about his mother, who is now gone, and now we're receiving this Haven as a way to remember them by. It's a beautiful mirrored parallel of the former message because now he has a son. The song is more for us fans, however, it's grounded in a way where it's to say he will always give his son something to remember him by. Haven - Now imagine how many things i have to say about this song. I'll stop here and let you reach out if you're just DYING to know my opinion. My god. I just don't need to cry anymore because of the beauty and nostalgia (I first heard Haven't Had Enough in 2014 and i'm 30 now) so ooofffff.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for leaving so many thoughts! That's interesting perspective on "Ancient History" - I could definitely see that being about the band or the fans as they get older and move on to other things and lives change

[@ZoulStar]

An hour long MT review? *OH I AM HERE*

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks so much for checking it out! Hope you enjoy our conversation!

[@ZoulStar]

@@ohgeeeznotagain I did! It was a really interesting listen! While I do have my criticisms, agree and disagree with some of what was said about songs, as a long time fan of the band this record reached and exceeded expectations. While I didn’t mind Phantoms, this definitely feels like a step in the right direction for the band and I’m quite curious to see where they go from here. And while I do agree this album feels it would be quite alienating if you’re not a long time fan, I feel in that it also allows for newcomers to check out the band’s discography, to hear their history when hearing about the callbacks made and wanting to hear them in their origins to get the context while also checking on the rest of their body of works. And as for faves on this, Down to You, Into the Storm, Turn and Run, Worlds Collide and Nights Like These are my everything right now! All in all, I really enjoyed my time with Haven, and I’m glad to hear you guys enjoyed it as much too! Sidenote- It was quite interesting to hear that Astoria and Ever After were both of you two’s favourite albums. I’m so used to seeing Masterpiece Theatre and Astoria being on top that it kinda surprised me lmao

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

@@ZoulStar Thanks! I know that MPT is usually considered better than Ever After in critical circles, but for us, I think it's a combination of when we first discovered the band (mid -2010's) and our own tastes in pop/rock music. They're both great albums, though!

[@AlSassyxo]

Okay so please hear me out................. the discussion table on your channel becomes the go-to for all Trenchers because NO ONE is talking about their albums on youtube. I listen to your feedback and the things you've taken from Astoria, Ever After, Masterpiece Theatre and i'm like YO WHY IS THIS THE ONLY VIDEO ON MARIANAS TRENCH ON THEIR CHANNEL!?!??! Please do a discussion on Astoria. You guys are amazing and I will share with the SLC trenchers because i LOVED this discussion and need more MT discussions!

[@AlSassyxo]

Before then doing one on ever after, MP, & phantoms lol

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Glad you liked the discussion! It was an honor to talk about the album. These videos do take a while to edit, and we’ll be busy with our own shows and music for the foreseeable future, so I don’t know that we’d have time to go through MT’s whole discography, but we will certainly keep it in mind!

[@kateelizabeth5130]

I’ve been obsessed with them since I was like 8 hahaha so hearing pieces of masterpiece theatre, ever after and Astoria in this album was so nostalgic AGH I loved it. Still always bewilders me that very few Americans have heard of them but even here in Canada they aren’t very big anymore. I feel like after Pop 101 I haven’t seen a single of theirs really take off and it’s so sad because they’re so talented and their theatrical queen-inspired pieces are my favourite 😭

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Yeah, the peak of their popularity was definitely 2010-2014, but you never know - the way old songs come back all the time nowadays, they could still get their hit song! They've certainly earned it!

[@gl4life252]

I am a US fan!! Need more. I have asked so many people to review this album hoping to grow their fan base here. Great video

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks so much for checking out our video! We love spreading the word about MT!

[@rschiel50]

Another magnificent story written by Josh Ramsay and pulled together musically by Josh and the boys ( Matt, Mike and Ian)...concept albums are rarely written and produced these days and this is a Marianas Trench treasure!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

The way MT construct their albums is HUGELY influential for us - if you like their concept albums, you might like our music, too!

[@rschiel50]

@@ohgeeeznotagain I will check you guys out!

[@codyssmith73]

It’s a crime they’ve never taken off in the States, but I feel like a lot of that has to do with the Canadian market bot understanding where to place them when they first started out. Fix Ne should be seen as an emo/scene classic, along the lines of Paramore’s RIOT, MCR’s Welcome To Black Parade & especially A Fever You Can’t Sweat Out. But also, they just continue to rock as a whole. There is a great mix of every era on Haven, and when I say that, I MEAN it. There’s even sprinklings of Josh’s pre Trench work here!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Absolutely! This record is a great culmination of everything that they've done!

[@rschiel50]

"Remember Me By" sounds like the kind of song that Josh will be singing in the AUDIENCE with "Stutter" and the like...can't wait to see them in New York and Philadelphia!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Yes! It will be so interesting to see how these songs translate live - can't wait to see them on this tour!

[@Crystalfrost8]

I felt the same way about A Normal Life. I listened to it and never listened to it again until the album came out and now I've been listening to the whole album non-stop.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

It’s a great opener to the album - glad you’re enjoying it, too!

[@hl-river8580]

EEEEE so happy seeing yall talk about Marianas Trench

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for listening to us! Glad to find fellow MT fans!

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

I think the issue with how muted the drums may sound (going back to "Phantoms" and "The Josh Ramsay Show") is because Josh uses organic instrumentation (i.e. real instruments) to mimic synthesizers and drum machines instead of using those artificial instruments. I feel that on "Haven," he finally figured out how to make them sound more like (ironically) the real thing which was a bit of a drawback on some of the best songs on those previous records (like "Death of Me" and "You and I") that when you blasted them in the car, the bass didn't hit as hard as other contemporary pop songs that use that aritfical instrumentation. Btw I knew you were going to say Justin Bieber's "Anyone" lol (originally performed by Camila Cabello)

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

I somehow did not know until today that Camila had originally recorded Anyone - thank you for that bit of pop music info! And thanks for your thoughts on the record!!

[@ceslestrialfairy]

Night's like These is the next radio single for Canada...but as a woman....i love this song because the emotional story is amazing. This album is based on the hero's journey, but it thinks the hero's journey for Josh is his him becoming a father and being nostalgic about the past. This record is his life story, it's his hero's journey that brought him to this moment.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Definitely - it's a very all-encompassing life story set to music!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Let us know what you think of 'Haven' by Marianas Trench! If you're curious, we'd love for you to check out our music and join us on our expedition! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZa6mK2wabNjmpo

[@michaelaminock]

This was so great to listen to! Thank you! Some thoughts I had: 1. I only just realized (like, maybe three days ago?) that Josh had announced his first child with the release of Lightning and Thunder. But knowing that, and thinking of the song in the context of finding out you're expecting, I think it becomes obvious that it is a call to adventure. He's faced with this new journey (parenthood), and he knows it's going to be "stronger and harder" than anything he's encountered before, and he's afraid of what he is being called to. But he's also ready to take a deep breath and "let go and jump" into the new adventure. 2. I loved when you were describing some of the other songs/artists to which you felt this album was in a similar vein, because many of them are musicians and songs I also really like! Namely, you mentioned The Band Camino and Knox in the same sentence (I think for Lightning and Thunder), and I almost laughed because I enjoy both of them. And when you played "I Think I Like You" by The Band Camino? About two and a half years ago, when that song first came out, I was loving it, and I played it for my now-husband, and his response was "of course you love it, it sounds like Marianas Trench." 3. Why no mention of their Fix Me album? I admit that it isn't a particularly strong work of theirs, and doesn't have the features like the grand openers and closers or melodic and lyrical throughlines/callbacks that we have come to love in their later works. It's definitely a bit of "early installment weirdness" where they were still developing as artists. But at the same time, I think it has some of the rawest, most powerful lyrics - possibly because it is so unpolished compared to their later albums. Alibis, September, Push, and especially Skin and Bones are so hauntingly evocative for me. And of course, for those that prefer a heavier/harder sound, it's excellent! Anyway, great work to you two, and thank you for providing such an in-depth analysis! My favorite off the album is currently Lightning and Thunder, but I'm still in the early stages of listening. I need a few more times through the album.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for leaving your thoughts! I must admit, the reading of "Lightning and Thunder" as a song about parenthood wasn't immediately apparent to me when I first heard it, but I do like your interpretation of the "stronger and harder" line and how it could be seen as the start of something rather than a journey already taken! As for Fix Me, there are definitely songs that we like on that album - "Push" in particular. We just didn't end up referencing it much in this video as it seems to fall outside of the 'story' of this album and the scope of its callbacks (aside from that particularly gnarly guitar on "A Normal Life")

[@TheSymphanie]

Ancient history is SO fun. The sound is actually Ali most identical to a part in Rosanna by Toto. I hope they do this one live. It’ll be a great time!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Considering that the name of the tour comes from "Ancient History," I think it's pretty likely! I didn't mention this in the video, but I do think that hearing these songs live with some real guitar and drums will really enhance some of the ones we were cooler on - Down to You, Now or Never, Ancient History. Very eager to see the band in October!

[@TheSymphanie]

I thought the ‘welcome to the edge’ in turn and run made perfect sense in the story… he’s talking about how he always turns and runs… but now welcome to the edge… both worlds are about to collide… and that’s scary…. And it sounds kind of scary!

[@TheSymphanie]

Loved down to you, and now or never is my absolute favourite on this album, I put some earphones in and walk while I’m listening, this song is inspirational and passionate. I feel all the feelings that I think this song was meant to do love love love now, or never!

[@mickey8503]

I am VERY lucky to live 30 mins from Ontario, Canada so being a US fan, I have LOVED to see them grow! Bittersweet. I am so happy to see the band (and Fan Following) grow and evolve...but I love the smaller shows. More Personal. In regards to your album review. I agree 100%. I feel like you both see this album, how I see it. I have mostly positives but I agree with your not so positive views. Being a fan for so long, I feel like sometimes I miss the bigger picture....I will love them to the end of the world. Speaking of the end, that is what scares me about this album. They have families now. They can make it on their own. So are they done? I doubt that, this is the end, but that is a fear of mine.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for your thoughts! You're very lucky to have seen both the US and Canadian side of the band - that's neat! To your last point, it is interesting that so many of these pop/rock bands from the 2010s have reached that post-fame stage where they still have devoted followings, but also have families. Panic at the Disco, twenty one pilots, and Marianas Trench all fit in that group. I agree that I don't think MT is done making music, but it will be interesting to see how they proceed

[@TheAligorithm]

Not me accidentally commenting using the YT account on my work computer then switching over to my actual channel and commenting AGAIN for algorithm purposes to push you onto everyones recommended. Hopefully maybe we collab and stream on twitch because i NEED to discuss Astoria or EA or MP or Phantoms with yall omg you both in unison after seeing so many notifications of mine commenting: "Oh Geeez, Not Again"

[@debbieeubanks5751]

Haven’t Had Enough was the first song I heard. Pete Wentz had a Sunday night radio show on Sirius where he played little known bands ( little known in the US) and said that MT was the most impressive bad he’s heard in a long time. At the guitar riff I knew I would be a fan for life. Flying from Orlando to Windsor in November to see them for the 3rd time. Can’t wait!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

"Haven't Had Enough" is absolutely an all-timer - glad to know Pete Wentz agrees, too! Hope you enjoy the show - I'm excited to see them next week!

[@AmbientEscapeYT]

Nice review, I’m a fan from UK. Highly underrated IMO

[@rschiel50]

This album and band is HIGHLY underrated!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Absolutely! Glad to hear from fellow fans of the band!

[@bradleylalonde727]

Down to You is one of my favourite tracks on the album! Great references, great vocal moments, fun instrumentals :D Find it interesting that the album seems to be a collection of "single" type songs and "theme" songs. And while their single songs are fun and unique, long-time fans should feel really satisfied with their huge theme moments. Ancient History's location in the album actually feels good to me. Very much a trial of sorts towards the end goal. And I felt the music genre switch-up really felt like a breath of fresh air; it breaks up the theme songs. Turn and Run is probably my favourite song, despite being able to appreciate that Worlds Collide is probably the BEST song. I think its vague lyrics allow people to connect to it despite varying backgrounds; I found myself thinking of struggles in my own life and connecting. And I really feel like Worlds Collide is the emotional climax of the album; I think it IS the final battle. Haven really feels like a sequel/cliffhanger to me. OOF those Nights Like These burns. I really like it! Emotionally hits just right despite a boring sound. Unironically, Remember Me By is in my bottom 3 XD Especially when listening to the whole album, it just feels weirdly placed and bothers me. I appreciate its Astoria vibes but it just didn't hit for me. Crazy right? I actually agree that Haven feels like my least favourite ending songs. I appreciate the first two segments of the song, the great instrumentation, the fun vocal performance... but it almost feels like TOO much and the final minute just doesn't climax for me. The Killing Kind is still my GOAT. :) Great vid guys!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for checking out our discussion and leaving your thoughts! I will say, personally (Sean here), that Down to You continues to get better and better for me the more I hear the record. And glad to have you in my corner on Nights Like These!

[@kateelizabeth5130]

Also I’m so selfish though because as much as I wish they got more recognition, I love the smaller venues they still tend to perform at because I can get front row seats without destroying my bank account 😂

[@michaelaminock]

same!!!!!! In that regard, we are so lucky! The last time I saw them on tour, I got to touch Josh Ramsay cuz he walked right by me! (which sounds creepy I know lol)

[@angusbeef637]

Yoooo I’m also from Columbus, Ohio, represent! And I’m a big MT fan!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Awesome! Thanks for checking out our video!

[@jackiewhalen7231]

So underrated

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

They are! Glad you like them!

[@willshelby6172]

I’m about a third of the way through this and loving the analysis. One thing that I am finding super interesting is that I had an opposite reaction to you guys where I thought A Normal Life was AWESOME (by like the 3rd or 4th listen) whereas Lightning and Thunder was a little bit of a miss for me. I think it’s super catchy which is fun but I don’t love the sound of the melody when he says “it’s stronger and harder than lightning and Thunder” and beyond the sound, I’ve never gotten over how lame those lyrics are! Lol. I don’t even know what that means or how it makes sense. I guess it doesn’t have to in music. These guys have been my favorite band for over a decade so every time they drop an album it’s a seismic event. Can’t wait to watch the rest of this review!

[@willshelby6172]

Also, I remember Josh posted something on Instagram that was asking like “would you guys rather have us release the album opener or the lead single from the upcoming album” and EVERY comment was to please not release the opener early…and then they did it anyway😂😂

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

That's a fair point - the lyrics are more colorful than they are 100% "about" something, which was something we talked about during "Turn and Run," too. But, honestly, as a songwriter I do love writing like that (see this song for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIfFnIeMecyEf8U). Just the words "lightning and thunder" feel grand and important to me, especially over such textured production - I'm a sucker for songs like that!

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

It was certainly a big return - even if I think the song ultimately works much better as part of the album and not as a single

[@michaelaminock]

Lightning and Thunder was written about Josh and his wife finding out that they were expecting their first child. I only just found that out a few days ago, but it has totally changed how I interpret that song. Like, every single lyric suddenly makes sense to me in the context of knowing that. So with "it's stronger and harder than lightning and thunder," I guess it is unclear what aspect of lightning and thunder he is talking about - is it stronger/harder than fighting lightning and thunder? Then being lightning and thunder? Than fighting a supervillain with lightning and thunder powers? - but the "it" was absolutely written with the intention of being "parenthood." And I would imagine that parenthood is a tougher challenge than almost anything else!

[@sharragamez1318]

I'm coming at this album from the perspective of someone who is a writer (in the fiction sense, not the music sense) and whose degree is literature. Aaaaand...I hate it as a hero's journey. Here's the thing: the hero's journey as an overarching idea is pretty much a cliché. An individual story can subvert it or add enough detail to get around that, but this album doesn't do it. I can't help comparing it to something like Ethel Cain's Preacher's Daughter, which isn't a hero's journey but does feel to me like a masterclass in a concept album telling a cohesive, deeply compelling story. That said...I still really enjoy this album? I really enjoy all the songs, and the more I listen, the more I forget that hero's journey framing device that doesn't work for me at all, and the more I hear Josh writing songs about his family, his aspirations, and his career. That's the story that lands for me. The real one. The one about an incredibly skilled musician expressing his feelings about where he's at in life.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

@@sharragamez1318 thanks for sharing your thoughts! I can imagine that someone like yourself who has probably lived and breathe literary devices would find something as broadly sketched as this too cliche, so I can definitely see where you’re coming from. I do think it might be a touch unfair to compare this to something as singular as “Preacher’s Daughter” - that album defied all the odds to become a commercial success, and I don’t know that a band like Marianas Trench who’s still trying to fit into that “pop” space is ready to go down a road like that just yet. But glad to hear that you enjoyed the record regardless! Josh’s personal lyrics have always been a big asset to this band behind all the concepts and grand instrumentation, and I’m happy to hear those made it work for you!

[@TheSymphanie]

I just finished this review video… my least favorite song is ‘Remember me by’🙈 but my least fave on astoria was burning up. I’m not fond of so much high voice through the whole song. I like down to you vocal range better… the higher voice throughout I just don’t get the feels from, whereas on now or never his voice with the orchestra especially when his voice goes up and up I Ahhh ahhhh ahhh ahhh , it’s like one of those churches where people have their hands up to the lord😂 Nights like these, I feel like a Garth brooks ‘friend in low places” in the way I can see people on the patio holding their drinks up in appreciation for the people in their lives, and those are the nicest feels! Overall I’ve said “this is the BEST movie I’ve never seen”!!

[@notyourfathersdm]

Sadly, I have to agree about the comparison between "Ancient History" and "Yesterday". Neither did it particularly for me; both feel slightly out of place for their spot in their respective albums. That being said, I can see the appeal, even if it's not my particular flavor of Trench. As a storyteller, the sequence of "Stand and Fight", "Turn and Run", and "Worlds Collide" are pure fire. They might not stand as well on their own, but that's not what they're intended to be. "Stand and Fight" is, in my view, the pre-battle "we band of brothers" speech from Shakespeare's Henry V, while "Turn and Run" is the leader's inner doubts and fears, akin to Henry V wandering his camp in disguise on the eve of battle, surveying his troops and realizing that he could very well lose and get everyone around him killed. And, of course, "Worlds Collide" is the climactic battle. When viewed through that lens, this trio of songs are a single story beat tightly woven together. As for "Nights Like These", I actually like this one as the post-battle victory party, with the heroic adventurers gathered around the fire for drinks. If anything feels out of place in the back half of the album, it's "Remember Me By"; I struggle to figure out where it fits in the narrative.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Thanks for giving your thoughts! Great insight on the literary connections on Stand And Fight - Worlds Collide, that stretch of three tracks definitely feel like their own mini story within the record

[@AmbientEscapeYT]

My favourites were; 1) Haven 2) Worlds Collide 3) Now or never (I didn’t appreciate the slander) 😂

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

Nice!! Thanks for putting up with all the trash we were talking about that song! 😅

[@SS-rr7by]

Where's the Astoria callback in Haven??

[@AmbientEscapeYT]

I think I put remember me by last because I didn’t like the seemingly miscoordinated synth

[@CalynnAli]

"We need a song that's about standing up and fighting...we're gunna call in stand and fight." This decribes very well my issues with this album. I started to get the ick listening to Josh talk about the theme before the album even launched, and then songs like this just kept the ick coming. It's too literal and reductive and forced. At times this album feels almost like Josh asked ChatGTB to write a Marianas Trench Album about the heros journey. Don't get me wrong, there are points I love, but the theme was way too heavy handed.

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

To some extent, I do agree - I don't know that I'd go so far as to say the lyrics sound computer generated, but what helps for me when the lyrics aren't at 100% is the melodies and performances. That's what made "Stand and Fight" work for me, as on-the-nose and repetitive as it may be

[@SS-rr7by]

lol your eyes being shut all the time reminds me of South Park making fun of San Fransicans

[@ohgeeeznotagain]

I think better when I can’t see 😅

[@SS-rr7by]

@@ohgeeeznotagain love it. May try it myself!